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(WTOP)   The city of Alexandria, VA is considering the repeal of an old law that forces it to name all North-South streets after racist traitors   (wtop.com ) divider line 234
    More: Hero, Virginia City, Sons of Confederate Veterans, Dred Scott, Robert E. Lee, repeal  
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7383 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Jan 2014 at 9:51 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-15 11:44:05 AM  
They should name all the east-west streets after cities Sherman torched.
www.sfmuseum.net
'I hate avenues" - WT Sherman
 
2014-01-15 11:44:08 AM  

Clemkadidlefark: " .. after racist traitors .."

So, Subby, you're saying every North-South street will be named Obama?


Zombie Red Skelton frowns upon your not-funniness.
 
2014-01-15 11:45:52 AM  
The My Little Pony Killer: natas6.0: there is no right to avoid being offended by something

Okay?

So stop acting so offended that you need to change your racist traitor street names.


it makes no sense to generate butthurt over people who represented
slavery in the south 140 years ago
and completely ignoring that it was done by the heroes of america also
I don't like the duality of stupid by choice.
 
2014-01-15 11:46:30 AM  

ThighsofGlory: Change the name of every street named after a Confederate, and every town, every sports team, every school from elementary to university, every landmark, every person, every dog, every stock car. Erase all traces of the unfortunate incident. That'll fix it.


lol I was going to write something to this effect, with a little less snark.

I'll just say I have lived in here my whole life (spent my early years in Alexandria) and I still love driving up Rt 1 (Washington St.) past the Appomattox statue (Confederate soldier) and watching the road open up to a straight line toward the Washington Monument. It's an experience and makes you think, I'll just say that.

The rebel flag flying derpers are something else though. Can't say I have any appreciation for that.

but fwiw my family only got here 50 some years ago, so I couldn't be butthurt by Civil War history even if I wanted to.
 
2014-01-15 11:49:14 AM  
Duke Street still sucks.
 
2014-01-15 11:49:34 AM  
Did the "racist traitors" have a hand in building the city of Alexandria?  I could see naming streets after them if they were citizens or if they help fund public projects in the city.
 
2014-01-15 11:53:44 AM  

Marquis de Sod: Malcolm X-Pressway has a nice ring to it


Yeah that is real nice, I guess its alright to name a street after a guy that said that all whites are devils...which is exactly what Malcolm X and the nation of islam said..
 
2014-01-15 11:54:32 AM  
Hell, I *live* in the Northern Virginia DC suburbs.  I was under the impression that the law required Every. Last. Thing. - road, development, building, doghouse, outhouse - to have "Lee" in the name somewhere.
 
2014-01-15 11:55:45 AM  

brantgoose: To be fair, they should name all East West streets after slaves, lynch victims and non-white rape victims.

That would meet the "fair and balanced" commentary requirements according to which there are two and only two possible point of views--the deranged paranoid fantasies of the right and a feeble rebuttal from a tame liberal on a leash.


They should change the E-W to civil rights leaders, and the N-S to hip-hop stars.
I have no valid reason for doing this.
I just want to hear what some cletus has to say when he finds out he lives at the corner of Old Dirty Bastard Court and Louis Farakhan Avenue.
 
2014-01-15 11:57:26 AM  

atomicmask: Marquis de Sod: Malcolm X-Pressway has a nice ring to it

Yeah that is real nice, I guess its alright to name a street after a guy that said that all whites are devils...which is exactly what Malcolm X and the nation of islam said..


For the entertainment value, alone.
 
2014-01-15 11:59:21 AM  
Let's make a deal, you can go ahead naming any streets you want after Confederate generals as long as the interstate that leads from Atlanta to Savannah is called the William T. Sherman Memorial Expressway.
 
2014-01-15 12:00:35 PM  

Nicholas D. Wolfwood: Hell, I *live* in the Northern Virginia DC suburbs.  I was under the impression that the law required Every. Last. Thing. - road, development, building, doghouse, outhouse - to have "Lee" in the name somewhere.


I think you're confusing some of that with the Asian population presence here.
 
2014-01-15 12:04:15 PM  

hausman007: Let's make a deal, you can go ahead naming any streets you want after Confederate generals as long as the interstate that leads from Atlanta to Savannah is called the William T. Sherman Memorial Expressway.


There is no singular interstate that leads from Atlanta to Savannah (I-75 to Macon, then I-16 to Savannah), but as a Savannah resident, I don't have a problem with this.  Sherman spared Savannah, and left us with the beautiful city we have today.
 
2014-01-15 12:07:41 PM  

Farce-Side: hausman007: Let's make a deal, you can go ahead naming any streets you want after Confederate generals as long as the interstate that leads from Atlanta to Savannah is called the William T. Sherman Memorial Expressway.

There is no singular interstate that leads from Atlanta to Savannah (I-75 to Macon, then I-16 to Savannah), but as a Savannah resident, I don't have a problem with this.  Sherman spared Savannah, and left us with the beautiful city we have today.



He spared Savannah?

Sherman is dead to me.
 
2014-01-15 12:07:57 PM  
True.  why bother learning about a document when you can just defend what you imagine it to be.

I keep a copy of the original in my wallet and read it daily to remind myself of it's glory.
.
Where do you keep your copy, commie???
 
2014-01-15 12:10:26 PM  

Snarfangel: Farce-Side: hausman007: Let's make a deal, you can go ahead naming any streets you want after Confederate generals as long as the interstate that leads from Atlanta to Savannah is called the William T. Sherman Memorial Expressway.

There is no singular interstate that leads from Atlanta to Savannah (I-75 to Macon, then I-16 to Savannah), but as a Savannah resident, I don't have a problem with this.  Sherman spared Savannah, and left us with the beautiful city we have today.


He spared Savannah?

Sherman is dead to me.


Presented it to Lincoln as a Christmas present.
 
2014-01-15 12:11:19 PM  

htomc: Traitors?  What did they do to give aid and comfort to the enemies of the United States?  They just wanted their own separate country- just like the colonists did to the British less than a century before.  Granted, their reasons might not have been quite as honorable, but they did essentially the same thing.

How were they any more "traitors" than any person who leaves the US and becomes a citizen of another country?  Does this mean that Tina Turner should now be subject to the death penalty?


If they wanted to form their own separate country without being traitors then they should have either 1) won the war to actually form a separate country or 2) actually secede from the nation. The Constitution has no provisions by which a state may secede, so currently no state may secede. In order to do so an Amendment to the Constitution would need to be made that either said a) "South Carolina et al are no longer a states of the United States of America" or b) define a process by which a state may leave. The South did not do this so the Confederate States of America never actually left the nation. Hence traitors
 
2014-01-15 12:11:54 PM  

Snarfangel: Farce-Side: hausman007: Let's make a deal, you can go ahead naming any streets you want after Confederate generals as long as the interstate that leads from Atlanta to Savannah is called the William T. Sherman Memorial Expressway.

There is no singular interstate that leads from Atlanta to Savannah (I-75 to Macon, then I-16 to Savannah), but as a Savannah resident, I don't have a problem with this.  Sherman spared Savannah, and left us with the beautiful city we have today.


He spared Savannah?

Sherman is dead to me.


Maybe they welcomed him like they welcomed the British when they sailed in during the Revolution.
 
2014-01-15 12:14:51 PM  

Nabb1: Snarfangel: Farce-Side: hausman007: Let's make a deal, you can go ahead naming any streets you want after Confederate generals as long as the interstate that leads from Atlanta to Savannah is called the William T. Sherman Memorial Expressway.

There is no singular interstate that leads from Atlanta to Savannah (I-75 to Macon, then I-16 to Savannah), but as a Savannah resident, I don't have a problem with this.  Sherman spared Savannah, and left us with the beautiful city we have today.


He spared Savannah?

Sherman is dead to me.

Maybe they welcomed him like they welcomed the British when they sailed in during the Revolution.


The Confederate General in charge fled rather than fighting or surrendering, and the Mayor of Savannah at the time asked Sherman not to burn his city and destroy the property of the citizenry in exchange for allowing the Union troops to stay there and rest before moving up through the Carolinas.
 
2014-01-15 12:17:20 PM  

scottydoesntknow: They should name them after fictional traitors.

Lando Lane

Cypher Court

Carter Burke Blvd.

Obadiah Stane St.

Peter Pettigrew Parkway

Alec Trevelyan Expressway


neverendingapplause.gif
 
2014-01-15 12:26:21 PM  
Here's a Virginian they can name a street after:

upload.wikimedia.org

This guy deserves a street named for him in Atlanta
upload.wikimedia.org

Just celebrating my non traitorous heritage
 
2014-01-15 12:27:38 PM  
Gosh, that law dates from 1963? I wonder what was going on then to cause the all-white city council to want to venerate the Confederacy so long, hard and deep?
 
2014-01-15 12:31:03 PM  

mbillips: Gosh, that law dates from 1963? I wonder what was going on then to cause the all-white city council to want to venerate the Confederacy so long, hard and deep?


Lovings v Virginia started in 1959 (thanks to the Farker who gave me that date the other day) and the Supreme Court decision came out in 1967.
 
2014-01-15 12:35:59 PM  

Lucky LaRue: You would think, subby, that if the Confederates were traitors, then at least their leaders would have been judged guilty of the crime.  Maybe, though, the Federalist were just too stupid or too timid to take that kind of action, though.


LINCOLN Once he surrenders, send his boys back to their homes, their farms, their shops.
GRANTYes sir, as we discussed.
LINCOLN Liberality all around. No punishment. I don't want that. And the leaders - Jeff and the rest of `em - if they escape, leave the country while my back's turned, that wouldn't upset me none. When peace comes it mustn't just be hangings.


/yeah, yeah. its from a movie.
 
2014-01-15 12:37:36 PM  

mbillips: Gosh, that law dates from 1963? I wonder what was going on then to cause the all-white city council to want to venerate the Confederacy so long, hard and deep?


Keep going....
 
2014-01-15 12:45:27 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: mongbiohazard: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Interesting that streets named after the racist traitors Washington, Jefferson, etc... are still fine...

Washington and Jefferson didn't fight against the US for the Confederate rebellion.

I never said they did. They're still racist traitors though :)


Traitors against whom?  The king of England?
 
2014-01-15 12:50:43 PM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: ristst: Worry not bro...down here in Dixie we are highly amused at all the "historians" on this site.

I'm actually a historian. The Civil War really isn't my area of expertise, but after looking at primary sources, I see no reason why the term "racist traitor" isn't an accurate description of the Confederacy. They were literally the definition of racists, i.e. they thought that it was possible to establish a hierarchy of races, and they were traitors in that they waged war on their own country.


Right.  Because the Civil War happened because Virginia invaded Maryland waging war on the U.S. (or that only happened in '62 after ''Murrica invaded Virginia 30-40 times.)
 
2014-01-15 12:55:51 PM  
I just wish every other road in NoVA wasnt named Lee.
 
2014-01-15 12:58:02 PM  

Ambitwistor: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: mongbiohazard: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Interesting that streets named after the racist traitors Washington, Jefferson, etc... are still fine...

Washington and Jefferson didn't fight against the US for the Confederate rebellion.

I never said they did. They're still racist traitors though :)

Traitors against whom?  The king of England?


Yes. Jesus, I wasn't being cryptic.
 
2014-01-15 12:58:22 PM  

Chummer45: OnlyM3: Chummer45

It's the primary voting block that keeps electing idiots to congress. The South is why we can't have nice things. Yeah if only the south could elect intelligent, dignified folks like other places
[thegrio.files.wordpress.com image 850x566]
NY's pride

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 320x293]
Massachusetts silver spoon:
DUI Manslaughter, Rape party, Stumbling into women's rooms with only a T-shirt on.


[newsrealblog.files.wordpress.com image 315x275]
Massachusetts golden shower boy:
His boy toy ran a prostitution service from Frank's residence that specialized in "young" men.

[www.upl.co image 220x252]
Fred Richmond NY House of Representatives
Arrested in 1978 for soliciting sex from a 16-year-old. He remained in Congress and won re-election-before eventually resigning in 1982 after pleading guilty to tax evasion and drug possession.

[www.upl.co image 220x298]
Mel Reynolds. The Illinois Democrat was convicted of 12 counts of sexual assault with a 16-year-old. President Bill Clinton pardoned him before leaving office.
rapists stick together.

Shall we go on?


Hah.  I love that all of your examples have absolutely nothing to do with policy - you know, the thing that we elect politicians to enact?  You probably voted for George W. Bush because you actually believed that he would "restore honor and dignity to the white house."


I'm reminded of my stepsister telling me that she voted for Bush because "he is for families." You can't reason with people like that.  The stupid runs too deep.
 
2014-01-15 01:03:59 PM  

Gunny Highway: mbillips: Gosh, that law dates from 1963? I wonder what was going on then to cause the all-white city council to want to venerate the Confederacy so long, hard and deep?

Lovings v Virginia started in 1959 (thanks to the Farker who gave me that date the other day) and the Supreme Court decision came out in 1967.


Exactly. You look at any local law "honoring our glorious dead" in the South, and you'll usually find it was enacted by a segregationist government during the civil rights era. See the Georgia state flag, etc.
 
2014-01-15 01:07:11 PM  

OnlyM3: Mel Reynolds. The Illinois Democrat was convicted of 12 counts of sexual assault with a 16-year-old.


That's just called "courtin'" where I come from.
blog.constitutioncenter.org
 
2014-01-15 01:13:56 PM  

Missicat: hausman007: A better law would be to force Virginia to rename any streets that change at an intersection, especially ones that require a right or left turn to stay on the same named street.

Or forbid naming all the streets the same thing except for the type and then write the type really small since thats the part you actually need to know, I'm looking at you Fair Lakes Pkwy, Blvd, Cir

We won't even bring up Arlington.  Every other street is 23rd something (st., rd., ln.) Sometimes the street stops at one intersection, only to pick up a block or two away.


Or Glebe.

And don't forget that for every street there's an "Old [street name]" version, just in case you thought you knew where you were going.

But hey, stay on topic. The Civil War wasn't about slavery. It was about States' Rights.

States' Rights to own Slaves, that is.   Herman Goerring Strasse and Hideki Tojo Blvd, FTW!
 
2014-01-15 01:29:12 PM  

Random Anonymous Blackmail: ZAZ


Next step, raze the city so they can start over with politically correct street names.


It is not like they named then Niger Blvd, Chink St, or KKK Way. Yes the Civil war is somewhat of a black eye in American history but much to general public schools it was not all about the rights to slavery. I don't see how a military leaders name could be considered politically incorrect.


In Memphis TN, there is a giant equestrian statue of Nathan Bedford Forrest in a city park. I've always wondered what Memphricans thought of having such a blatant middle finger extended to them.
 
2014-01-15 01:38:46 PM  

Fano: In Memphis TN, there is a giant equestrian statue of Nathan Bedford Forrest in a city park. I've always wondered what Memphricans thought of having such a blatant middle finger extended to them.


I bet the Kickstarter for a replacement statue of Forrest's descendant Forrest Gump would hit its target inside a day.
 
2014-01-15 01:40:03 PM  

Baron Harkonnen: Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea [of racial equality]; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition.  -Alexander Stephens, Vice-President of the Confederate States of America.


He looks like the kid from deliverance.
 
2014-01-15 01:48:58 PM  

ZAZ: Next step, raze the city so they can start over with politically correct street names.


DO note that this law came into effect in 1963.  Can you think of any OTHER things that happened that year and the one immediately prior?   And you wonder why we consider Confederate symbols to be coded racist messages?  It's because the racists started it.

Just like not too long ago the offical name of the Martin Luther King's Birthday Holiday in Va was "Lee-Jackson-King Day"   why?  Because fark you, that's why.
 
2014-01-15 01:58:57 PM  

Random Anonymous Blackmail: ZAZ


Next step, raze the city so they can start over with politically correct street names.


It is not like they named then Niger Blvd, Chink St, or KKK Way. Yes the Civil war is somewhat of a black eye in American history

but much to general public schools it was not all about the rights to slavery. I don't see how a military leaders name could be considered politically incorrect.

 Wrong Sir! False! The civil war was EXACTLY about Slavery, and everything else it was supposedly about is revisiont window dressing:

Declarations of Secession:
Georgia
[Copied by Justin Sanders from the Official Records, Ser IV, vol 1, pp. 81-85.]
The people of Georgia having dissolved their political connection with the Government of the United States of America, present to their confederates and the world the causes which have led to the separation. For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery.

Mississippi
[Copied by Justin Sanders from "Journal of the State Convention", (Jackson, MS: E. Barksdale, State Printer, 1861), pp. 86-88]
A Declaration of the Immediate Causes which Induce and Justify the Secession of the State of Mississippi from the Federal Union.
In the momentous step which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.
Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin.
That we do not overstate the dangers to our institution, a reference to a few facts will sufficiently prove.

South Carolina


[Copied by Justin Sanders from J.A. May & J.R. Faunt, *South Carolina Secedes* (U. of S. Car. Pr, 1960), pp. 76-81.]
Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union
The people of the State of South Carolina, in Convention assembled, on the 26th day of April, A.D., 1852, declared that the frequent violations of the Constitution of the United States, by the Federal Government, and its encroachments upon the reserved rights of the States, fully justified this State in then withdrawing from the Federal Union; but in deference to the opinions and wishes of the other slaveholding States, she forbore at that time to exercise this right. Since that time, these encroachments have continued to increase, and further forbearance ceases to be a virtue.
And now the State of South Carolina having resumed her separate and equal place among nations, deems it due to herself, to the remaining United States of America, and to the nations of the world, that she should declare the immediate causes which have led to this act.

Texas
[Copied by Justin Sanders from E.W. Winkler, ed., *Journal of the Secession Convention of Texas*, pp. 61-66.]
A Declaration of the Causes which Impel the State of Texas to Secede from the Federal Union.
The government of the United States, by certain joint resolutions, bearing date the 1st day of March, in the year A.D. 1845, proposed to the Republic of Texas, then *a free, sovereign and independent nation* [emphasis in the original], the annexation of the latter to the former, as one of the co-equal states thereof,
The people of Texas, by deputies in convention assembled, on the fourth day of July of the same year, assented to and accepted said proposals and formed a constitution for the proposed State, upon which on the 29th day of December in the same year, said State was formally admitted into the Confederated Union.
Texas abandoned her separate national existence and consented to become one of the Confederated Union to promote her welfare, insure domestic tranquility and secure more substantially the blessings of peace and liberty to her people. She was received into the confederacy with her own constitution, under the guarantee of the federal constitution and the compact of annexation, that she should enjoy these blessings. She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery-- the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits-- a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time. Her institutions and geographical position established the strongest ties between her and other slave-holding States of the confederacy. Those ties have been strengthened by association. But what has been the course of the government of the United States, and of the people and authorities of the non-slave-holding States, since our connection with them?
 
2014-01-15 02:05:49 PM  

Paris1127: ciberido: scottydoesntknow: Chummer45: The right wing has developed an imaginary idea of what the founding fathers and the confederate leaders stood for, which they constantly hold out as a way to justify adhering to regressive beliefs.

[hdwallpaperdownloads.com image 850x531]

/Even funnier because some stupid Tea Party group used this image without knowing it was A) from a video game, and B) making fun of the entire concept

That's Poe's Law Potato for you.

Poetato, if you will...


Thank you.   This is now stuck in my head all day:

31.media.tumblr.com

I return to you the favor.
 
2014-01-15 02:09:17 PM  

natas6.0: natas6.0- who didn't have slaves? The north had 'em, the south had 'em
Northerers committed horrible atrocities during the war.

ciberido-So are you trying to say "slavery really wasn't that big a deal" or just "I am a gibbering idiot"?

I need to use the word 'gibbering' more often

getting bent that those mean old southerners had slaves
is ignoring the history of the north.
The bullshiat isn't in a failure to condemn slavery
the bullshiat is in a willful ignorance of one one and damning the other

maybe if I use simple language you'll understand
..I don't like timmy because he hit joe a long time ago
but mark did the same thing
..yea, but mark seems nicer


Ok, so instead of BSABSVR we now have BSABSVSlavery.  Got it.
 
2014-01-15 02:31:46 PM  
it does not seem like he is seeking to change streets already named so i have no issues with this and can't see why any one else would,
 
2014-01-15 02:32:54 PM  

ristst: GORDON: Maybe.... just maybe.... calling the family members of southerners "racist traitors" even though we are several generations removed from the actual action is possibly not the best way to bring America together.Not that I am suggesting anyone should lead by example or rise above pettiness or anything. That's probably racist to suggest that.

Worry not bro...down here in Dixie we are highly amused at all the "historians" on this site.  Threads with "Racist Traitors" in the subject are the modmins favorite subjects and are pretty much guaranteed to go green.

Besides, they do need *something* to get their jollies....what with the SEC whuppin' some serious northern ass year after year after year after year.


SEC is college sports, right?
 
2014-01-15 02:51:04 PM  

Nabb1: Farce-Side: Meh.  As a Southerner, who give a f*ck?  I'm not more or less likely to drive down Robert E. Lee parkway than William Tecumseh Sherman Blvd. simply because of the name.

No, this is a very BIG deal to some northern FARKers who every once in a while feel like we are supposed to kiss their asses because of the outcome of a war that ended 150 years ago that none of us fought in. AFAIAC, if folks want to change the street names, change them.


I bash the south probably more than most. Not because I hate all southerners, but because a lot of the most vocal southerners are the ones waving the stars and bars talking about pride an heritage of a war they fought and lost over the right to own other human beings.

It's hard not to dislike people who took a morally reprehensible idea picked a fight over it, lost, and are now somehow proud of it. I realize it is a tiny minority of southerners who feel this way, but I feel the rest of you could do a much better job of telling these idiots to shut up and sit down.
 
2014-01-15 02:51:21 PM  

GORDON: nmrsnr: Or, they were pragmatists that realized that starting the process of getting back to a peaceful relationship is better served by having the leaders tell their men it's over and getting back to normal lives, rather than executing hundreds if not thousands of (now) citizens.

Maybe.... just maybe.... calling the family members of southerners "racist traitors" even though we are several generations removed from the actual action is possibly not the best way to bring America together.

Not that I am suggesting anyone should lead by example or rise above pettiness or anything.  That's probably racist to suggest that.


LOL SHUT UP GORDON
 
2014-01-15 02:53:50 PM  

rebelyell2006: doubled99: or at least stop pretending that cries of "states rights" have nothing to do with slavery


I'm all for states' rights over federal government
However, I oppose slavery. Crazy, huh?

You would have been tarred and feathered in 1860. Or shot. Southerners did not like the anti-slavery crowd.


Plus, the Fugitive Slave Act was one of the most anti-States' Rights laws in history, but was loved by the south.
 
2014-01-15 03:07:33 PM  
rwdavis:
If they wanted to form their own separate country without being traitors then they should have either 1) won the war to actually form a separate country or 2) actually secede from the nation. The Constitution has no provisions by which a state may secede, so currently no state may secede. In order to do so an Amendment to the Constitution would need to be made that either said a) "South Carolina et al are no longer a states of the United States of America" or b) define a process by which a state may leave. The South did not do this so the Confederate States of America never actually left the nation. Hence traitors

It is true that the Constitution had no procedure in place for secession, but isn't that and a host of other rights and privileges directly implied by the 10th Amendment?

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

So instead of thinking that the States couldn't do anything unless they had permission from the Feds (which is rather modern thinking, one unfortunate outcome of that war...), the general political philosophy of the time was that the States or the People could do pretty much anything that wasn't explicitly reserved to the Federal government.  At the time, there was no law or decision that gave the Feds the power to keep a State from seceding; the Supreme Court case that ruled unilateral secession as unconstitutional wasn't decided, conveniently, until 1869.   Even Pres. James Buchanan, who preceded Lincoln, argued that the Federal government didn't have the constitutional power to stop them.   So, it's rather problematic to say that what the Confeds did was "illegal" since at the time, there was nothing but a mass of different opinions and no settled, clear law.

Although it isn't explicit law, the Declaration of Independence gives philosophical support, that "...whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness...".   They may indeed have been racist jerks, but it is equally true that a sudden cessation of slavery would have had dire economic consequences even without the war- an economic fact of reality that the abolitionists didn't seem to care about.  When the slaves were suddenly freed from bondage at the end of the war, many plantations immediately collapsed- and along with them, the food and housing that the former slaves -did- have.  Freedom wasn't easy for a lot of them.

Might things have been different if the Feds had embarked upon some plan to compensate the slave owners as had been done in other countries, or otherwise economically wean them away from it?  Of course, there is also the problem that racial superiority/slavery was a matter or religion in the South (maybe Hitchens was right!).  Ironically enough, the institution of slavery was likely doomed anyway; the industrial revolution at the time was rapidly replacing man-power intensive work and would have made it unprofitable, sooner or later.   And, that institution certainly did need to go away; it just seems like the way it was done turned out to be the worst, hardest possible way of doing it.
 
2014-01-15 03:14:55 PM  

TheSheriffIsNear: LOL SHUT UP GORDON


upload.wikimedia.org
Wut?
 
2014-01-15 03:19:35 PM  

NavyBlues: Right.  Because the Civil War happened because Virginia invaded Maryland waging war on the U.S. (or that only happened in '62 after ''Murrica invaded Virginia 30-40 times.)



www.learnnc.org
Um... the state of South Carolina proudly admits to starting the war by bombarding Ft. Sumter.

Which was a fort owned by the Government of the United States, manned by soldiers of the United States Army.

upload.wikimedia.org

This guy did the exact same thing.
 
2014-01-15 03:26:52 PM  

Chummer45: I love that all of your examples have absolutely nothing to do with policy - you know, the thing that we elect politicians to enact?


I thought we elected politicians to say NO to the other side because nana-nana-boo-boo.  And to get very rich while in office.  And to spew forth mountains of derp.

But enacting policy?  What policy?  When?  Where?  I don't recall a whole lotta policy (if any at all) being enacted by anyone in Washington.
 
2014-01-15 03:35:35 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: Psshhh, and leave it to the Southerners to pretend that everybody gives a crap about their sportball games. You're winning what now? Oh, that thing that comes on the television once a week? That's nice.

/guess it's easier than reading a history book


Why don't you run a national poll where you query the population in this country on the relevance of their weekly sportball games vs. how many give a huge rat's ass that southern cities have streets named after confederate soldiers.

Get back to me with those results, yeah?

/and you're saying southerners are poor losers?
//hystericallaughter.jpg
 
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