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(WTOP)   The city of Alexandria, VA is considering the repeal of an old law that forces it to name all North-South streets after racist traitors   (wtop.com) divider line 234
    More: Hero, Virginia City, Sons of Confederate Veterans, Dred Scott, Robert E. Lee, repeal  
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7375 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Jan 2014 at 9:51 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



234 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-01-15 10:57:49 AM  

Gunther: Chummer45: Really?  You're going to argue that "southern white democrats" are the real confederate sympathizers? Maybe in the 1950s.  I guess it's predictable that you'd drag out this tired argument, where we pretend that the dixiecrats still exist and that the GOP's southern strategy never happened.

I think you misunderstand me. Obviously the GOP is far, far fonder of the confederates than the Democrats, but even amongst the GOP, there aren't many sympathizers in the North. You don't see these kinda laws getting proposed by GOP state senators in New Jersey. Confederate worship in the South crops up in the most astonishing places - I've heard politically liberal southerners opine that the war was fought over "States Rights" and that the union army was far less honorable in the war.

I assume it's just what you get taught as historical fact if you go to school in some places.



Oh yeah I'll agree with that.
 
2014-01-15 10:58:46 AM  
In all the hundreds of thousands of Confederate soldiers, surely there was  onenamed "Martin L. King" or something like that, right?
 
2014-01-15 10:59:33 AM  

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: spicorama: it's ok, for the people that still believe all that bullshiat, it's a constant reminder of how they got they ass kicked.

/modern civil war would be bloody but the north would win again.

Who is the "they" that got their asses kicked? You know all the people who fought in the civil war are dead, right?

I'm a southerner, but my family didn't even come to America until the 1880's...

Because nothing was ever done in the South in the name of Jeff Davis and Nathan Bedford Forrest, after the Civil War.


On behalf of all the millions of Southerners who have not in their lives presently done anything in the name of Jeff Davis or Nathan Bedford Forrest, let me extend my heartfelt sympathies for any personal damage you may have suffered under the names of Jeff Davis or Nathan Bedford Forrest as a result of some of our less enlightened citizenry. If you feel this insufficient, and feel hostilities should be renewed, go ahead and mount your invasion. I certainly won't say that you didn't give us fair warning.
 
2014-01-15 10:59:40 AM  

varmitydog: The politician who is pushing this, Justin Wilson, is a white guy who is a member of the NAACP.
Which begs the question: Why would a white guy be in the NAACP?


Probably for the same reason there were white abolitionists and there are male feminists and straight gay-rights advocates.  I'm not sure, but I would guess it has something to do with being insufficiently selfish and myopic.
 
2014-01-15 11:01:46 AM  

mongbiohazard: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: mongbiohazard: GORDON: nmrsnr: Or, they were pragmatists that realized that starting the process of getting back to a peaceful relationship is better served by having the leaders tell their men it's over and getting back to normal lives, rather than executing hundreds if not thousands of (now) citizens.

Maybe.... just maybe.... calling the family members of southerners "racist traitors" even though we are several generations removed from the actual action is possibly not the best way to bring America together.

Not that I am suggesting anyone should lead by example or rise above pettiness or anything.  That's probably racist to suggest that.

Subby didn't call the descendants racist traitors, he was calling the people who actually waged the war - commanding legions of men to kill and die to protect slavery - racist traitors. That seems entirely reasonable, since those confederate leaders were in fact racist traitors. The whole "sins of the father" act is something your brought in yourself.

Interesting that streets named after the racist traitors Washington, Jefferson, etc... are still fine...

Washington and Jefferson didn't fight against the US for the Confederate rebellion.


I never said they did. They're still racist traitors though :)
 
2014-01-15 11:02:29 AM  

ciberido: varmitydog: The politician who is pushing this, Justin Wilson, is a white guy who is a member of the NAACP.
Which begs the question: Why would a white guy be in the NAACP?

Probably for the same reason there were white abolitionists and there are male feminists and straight gay-rights advocates.  I'm not sure, but I would guess it has something to do with being insufficiently selfish and myopic.



"Why would anyone care about people who they don't know or who aren't exactly like them?"
 
2014-01-15 11:03:35 AM  

edmo: How about they leave them alone and stop trying to be revisionist historians?


How about you read the article before posting?
 
2014-01-15 11:03:40 AM  
Everyone who critisises government is a traitor
 
2014-01-15 11:03:40 AM  

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: spicorama: it's ok, for the people that still believe all that bullshiat, it's a constant reminder of how they got they ass kicked.

/modern civil war would be bloody but the north would win again.

Who is the "they" that got their asses kicked? You know all the people who fought in the civil war are dead, right?

I'm a southerner, but my family didn't even come to America until the 1880's...

Because nothing was ever done in the South in the name of Jeff Davis and Nathan Bedford Forrest, after the Civil War.


Who the fark are Jeff Davis and Nathan Bedford Forrest?
 
2014-01-15 11:04:19 AM  

htomc: Traitors?  What did they do to give aid and comfort to the enemies of the United States?  They just wanted their own separate country- just like the colonists did to the British less than a century before.  Granted, their reasons might not have been quite as honorable, but they did essentially the same thing.

How were they any more "traitors" than any person who leaves the US and becomes a citizen of another country?  Does this mean that Tina Turner should now be subject to the death penalty?


Robert E. Lee took an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States of America from all enemies, foreign and domestic.  And when it came time to order people to kill American soliders, Lee did most of the ordering.  He was America's biggest traitor.
 
2014-01-15 11:04:32 AM  

Nabb1: Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: spicorama: it's ok, for the people that still believe all that bullshiat, it's a constant reminder of how they got they ass kicked.

/modern civil war would be bloody but the north would win again.

Who is the "they" that got their asses kicked? You know all the people who fought in the civil war are dead, right?

I'm a southerner, but my family didn't even come to America until the 1880's...

Because nothing was ever done in the South in the name of Jeff Davis and Nathan Bedford Forrest, after the Civil War.

On behalf of all the millions of Southerners who have not in their lives presently done anything in the name of Jeff Davis or Nathan Bedford Forrest, let me extend my heartfelt sympathies for any personal damage you may have suffered under the names of Jeff Davis or Nathan Bedford Forrest as a result of some of our less enlightened citizenry. If you feel this insufficient, and feel hostilities should be renewed, go ahead and mount your invasion. I certainly won't say that you didn't give us fair warning.



That's a good start, but the South needs to apologize for a whole bunch of stuff.  It's the primary voting block that keeps electing idiots to congress.  The South is why we can't have nice things.
 
2014-01-15 11:06:09 AM  
They should name the streets after famous prostitutes. After all, those women in Alexandria probably did more to damage the war effort for the North than any of the Confederate generals, through spreading various nasty illnesses. There were at least 75 brothels in that town.
You might have, say Lilly Three Holes For Three Dollars Lane, the Fat Martha Expressway, and Back-Door Beula Toll Road.
 
2014-01-15 11:11:05 AM  
You guys know the Civil War is over, right?
 
2014-01-15 11:11:34 AM  
Confederate history is supposed to be the same history as the rest of the country, except from the point of view of the sore losers.

/let go of your hate
//or at least stop pretending that cries of "states rights" have nothing to do with slavery
 
2014-01-15 11:12:35 AM  
 
2014-01-15 11:13:41 AM  

natas6.0: there is no right to avoid being offended by something


Okay?

So stop acting so offended that you need to change your racist traitor street names.
 
2014-01-15 11:16:29 AM  
Change the name of every street named after a Confederate, and every town, every sports team, every school from elementary to university, every landmark, every person, every dog, every stock car. Erase all traces of the unfortunate incident. That'll fix it.
 
2014-01-15 11:18:01 AM  
I think the interesting aspect of this story is that it is evidence of Virginia picking up a more blue tint electorally.
 
2014-01-15 11:18:11 AM  
The funny thing is that nobody would care about this stuff if there wasn't a group of morons in the south who still view the confederacy in a positive light.
 
2014-01-15 11:19:16 AM  
" .. after racist traitors .."

So, Subby, you're saying every North-South street will be named Obama?
 
2014-01-15 11:19:56 AM  

Chummer45: The funny thing is that nobody would care about this stuff if there wasn't a group of morons in the south who still view the confederacy in a positive light.


Location: Michigan


lol
 
2014-01-15 11:20:51 AM  
name the street after the rev martin luther king jr. that'll improve the neighborhood.
 
2014-01-15 11:22:32 AM  
Seems like every town in the south has a "Martin Luther King Blvd". How come no "John F. Kennedy Blvd" or holiday???? He was assassinated too, you know.
 
2014-01-15 11:22:40 AM  
Sooo, most of you guys won't be happy till all the streets are named after Martin Luther King? Not that there's anything wrong with naming a street after Martin Luther King; I just think it'd be a little confusing to have 20 streets named after the guy.

Maybe they can vote on names they like, or vote to keep it the same. I think the number of people that would vote for no change would surprise you guys.

Do you know how much paperwork is required for moving these days? And what if a clerk in the office forgets to delete the old information? I imagine some people might be paying the taxes on 2 houses, instead of one.

/ it's just a freaking street name; it's not exactly the Nathan Bedford Forest Memorial Burning Cross, or something
 
2014-01-15 11:22:44 AM  
Chummer45

It's the primary voting block that keeps electing idiots to congress. The South is why we can't have nice things.
Yeah if only the south could elect intelligent, dignified folks like other places
thegrio.files.wordpress.com
NY's pride

3.bp.blogspot.com
Massachusetts silver spoon:
DUI Manslaughter, Rape party, Stumbling into women's rooms with only a T-shirt on.


newsrealblog.files.wordpress.com
Massachusetts golden shower boy:
His boy toy ran a prostitution service from Frank's residence that specialized in "young" men.

www.upl.co
Fred Richmond NY House of Representatives
Arrested in 1978 for soliciting sex from a 16-year-old. He remained in Congress and won re-election-before eventually resigning in 1982 after pleading guilty to tax evasion and drug possession.

www.upl.co
Mel Reynolds. The Illinois Democrat was convicted of 12 counts of sexual assault with a 16-year-old. President Bill Clinton pardoned him before leaving office.
rapists stick together.

Shall we go on?
 
2014-01-15 11:22:54 AM  
or at least stop pretending that cries of "states rights" have nothing to do with slavery


I'm all for states' rights over federal government
However, I oppose slavery. Crazy, huh?
 
2014-01-15 11:23:58 AM  

legion_of_doo: name the street after the rev martin luther king jr. that'll improve the neighborhood.


Heh, I was driving my 75-year-old grandfather to a doctor's appointment a few years ago. He's one of those "I must read all signs while driving" senior citizens. Anyway we're going along and all of the sudden he says "Mulk boulevard? What the fark's a Mulk?" I was really puzzled until I saw the exit for MLK Blvd.
 
2014-01-15 11:24:42 AM  
Psshhh, and leave it to the Southerners to pretend that everybody gives a crap about their sportball games. You're winning what now? Oh, that thing that comes on the television once a week? That's nice.

/guess it's easier than reading a history book
 
2014-01-15 11:24:43 AM  

ciberido: scottydoesntknow: Chummer45: The right wing has developed an imaginary idea of what the founding fathers and the confederate leaders stood for, which they constantly hold out as a way to justify adhering to regressive beliefs.

[hdwallpaperdownloads.com image 850x531]

/Even funnier because some stupid Tea Party group used this image without knowing it was A) from a video game, and B) making fun of the entire concept

That's Poe's Law Potato for you.


Poetato, if you will...
 
2014-01-15 11:24:51 AM  
A better law would be to force Virginia to rename any streets that change at an intersection, especially ones that require a right or left turn to stay on the same named street.

Or forbid naming all the streets the same thing except for the type and then write the type really small since thats the part you actually need to know, I'm looking at you Fair Lakes Pkwy, Blvd, Cir
 
2014-01-15 11:25:53 AM  

Chummer45: Nabb1: Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: spicorama: it's ok, for the people that still believe all that bullshiat, it's a constant reminder of how they got they ass kicked.

/modern civil war would be bloody but the north would win again.

Who is the "they" that got their asses kicked? You know all the people who fought in the civil war are dead, right?

I'm a southerner, but my family didn't even come to America until the 1880's...

Because nothing was ever done in the South in the name of Jeff Davis and Nathan Bedford Forrest, after the Civil War.

On behalf of all the millions of Southerners who have not in their lives presently done anything in the name of Jeff Davis or Nathan Bedford Forrest, let me extend my heartfelt sympathies for any personal damage you may have suffered under the names of Jeff Davis or Nathan Bedford Forrest as a result of some of our less enlightened citizenry. If you feel this insufficient, and feel hostilities should be renewed, go ahead and mount your invasion. I certainly won't say that you didn't give us fair warning.


That's a good start, but the South needs to apologize for a whole bunch of stuff.  It's the primary voting block that keeps electing idiots to congress.  The South is why we can't have nice things.


Yes, the South has inflicted some bad things upon the country. We have also inflicted some great food, a distinctly American cuisine, Delta blues, jazz, literary giants, SEC football, thousands of miles of beaches, and girls in sundresses.
 
2014-01-15 11:26:53 AM  

Nabb1: Chummer45: Nabb1: Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: spicorama: it's ok, for the people that still believe all that bullshiat, it's a constant reminder of how they got they ass kicked.

/modern civil war would be bloody but the north would win again.

Who is the "they" that got their asses kicked? You know all the people who fought in the civil war are dead, right?

I'm a southerner, but my family didn't even come to America until the 1880's...

Because nothing was ever done in the South in the name of Jeff Davis and Nathan Bedford Forrest, after the Civil War.

On behalf of all the millions of Southerners who have not in their lives presently done anything in the name of Jeff Davis or Nathan Bedford Forrest, let me extend my heartfelt sympathies for any personal damage you may have suffered under the names of Jeff Davis or Nathan Bedford Forrest as a result of some of our less enlightened citizenry. If you feel this insufficient, and feel hostilities should be renewed, go ahead and mount your invasion. I certainly won't say that you didn't give us fair warning.


That's a good start, but the South needs to apologize for a whole bunch of stuff.  It's the primary voting block that keeps electing idiots to congress.  The South is why we can't have nice things.

Yes, the South has inflicted some bad things upon the country. We have also inflicted some great food, a distinctly American cuisine, Delta blues, jazz, literary giants, SEC football, thousands of miles of beaches, and girls in sundresses.


Don't forget Honey Boo Boo.
 
2014-01-15 11:27:06 AM  
natas6.0- who didn't have slaves? The north had 'em, the south had 'em
Northerers committed horrible atrocities during the war.


ciberido-So are you trying to say "slavery really wasn't that big a deal" or just "I am a gibbering idiot"?

I need to use the word 'gibbering' more often

getting bent that those mean old southerners had slaves
is ignoring the history of the north.
The bullshiat isn't in a failure to condemn slavery
the bullshiat is in a willful ignorance of one one and damning the other

maybe if I use simple language you'll understand
..I don't like timmy because he hit joe a long time ago
but mark did the same thing
..yea, but mark seems nicer
 
2014-01-15 11:27:16 AM  

OnlyM3: Chummer45

It's the primary voting block that keeps electing idiots to congress. The South is why we can't have nice things. Yeah if only the south could elect intelligent, dignified folks like other places
[thegrio.files.wordpress.com image 850x566]
NY's pride

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 320x293]
Massachusetts silver spoon:
DUI Manslaughter, Rape party, Stumbling into women's rooms with only a T-shirt on.


[newsrealblog.files.wordpress.com image 315x275]
Massachusetts golden shower boy:
His boy toy ran a prostitution service from Frank's residence that specialized in "young" men.

[www.upl.co image 220x252]
Fred Richmond NY House of Representatives
Arrested in 1978 for soliciting sex from a 16-year-old. He remained in Congress and won re-election-before eventually resigning in 1982 after pleading guilty to tax evasion and drug possession.

[www.upl.co image 220x298]
Mel Reynolds. The Illinois Democrat was convicted of 12 counts of sexual assault with a 16-year-old. President Bill Clinton pardoned him before leaving office.
rapists stick together.

Shall we go on?



Hah.  I love that all of your examples have absolutely nothing to do with policy - you know, the thing that we elect politicians to enact?  You probably voted for George W. Bush because you actually believed that he would "restore honor and dignity to the white house."
 
2014-01-15 11:28:01 AM  

doubled99: or at least stop pretending that cries of "states rights" have nothing to do with slavery


I'm all for states' rights over federal government
However, I oppose slavery. Crazy, huh?



You should probably read the constitution when you get a chance.
 
2014-01-15 11:28:05 AM  

doubled99: or at least stop pretending that cries of "states rights" have nothing to do with slavery


I'm all for states' rights over federal government
However, I oppose slavery. Crazy, huh?


You would have been tarred and feathered in 1860. Or shot. Southerners did not like the anti-slavery crowd.
 
2014-01-15 11:29:15 AM  

Nabb1: Chummer45: Nabb1: Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: spicorama: it's ok, for the people that still believe all that bullshiat, it's a constant reminder of how they got they ass kicked.

/modern civil war would be bloody but the north would win again.

Who is the "they" that got their asses kicked? You know all the people who fought in the civil war are dead, right?

I'm a southerner, but my family didn't even come to America until the 1880's...

Because nothing was ever done in the South in the name of Jeff Davis and Nathan Bedford Forrest, after the Civil War.

On behalf of all the millions of Southerners who have not in their lives presently done anything in the name of Jeff Davis or Nathan Bedford Forrest, let me extend my heartfelt sympathies for any personal damage you may have suffered under the names of Jeff Davis or Nathan Bedford Forrest as a result of some of our less enlightened citizenry. If you feel this insufficient, and feel hostilities should be renewed, go ahead and mount your invasion. I certainly won't say that you didn't give us fair warning.


That's a good start, but the South needs to apologize for a whole bunch of stuff.  It's the primary voting block that keeps electing idiots to congress.  The South is why we can't have nice things.

Yes, the South has inflicted some bad things upon the country. We have also inflicted some great food, a distinctly American cuisine, Delta blues, jazz, literary giants, SEC football, thousands of miles of beaches, and girls in sundresses.



I'm not say it's all bad.  It's primarily right wing southern politics that I take issue with.
 
2014-01-15 11:30:18 AM  
Oh wow, I was expecting this to be a law from the 1860s, but no it's from 1963. Stay classy, Virginia.
 
2014-01-15 11:30:30 AM  

hausman007: A better law would be to force Virginia to rename any streets that change at an intersection, especially ones that require a right or left turn to stay on the same named street.

Or forbid naming all the streets the same thing except for the type and then write the type really small since thats the part you actually need to know, I'm looking at you Fair Lakes Pkwy, Blvd, Cir


We won't even bring up Arlington.  Every other street is 23rd something (st., rd., ln.) Sometimes the street stops at one intersection, only to pick up a block or two away.
 
2014-01-15 11:31:59 AM  
The war continues.
 
2014-01-15 11:32:46 AM  

rebelyell2006: doubled99: or at least stop pretending that cries of "states rights" have nothing to do with slavery


I'm all for states' rights over federal government
However, I oppose slavery. Crazy, huh?

You would have been tarred and feathered in 1860. Or shot. Southerners did not like the anti-slavery crowd.



Also, it's funny how selective conservatives are when it comes to "states' rights."  Like when the GOP tried to pass a law requiring all states to honor concealed pistol licenses from other states.  Or when the GOP tried to pass a law to invalidate California's regulations regarding the humane treatment of farm animals.

Before you get on your high horse and say "YEAH BUT LIBERALS LIKE STATES RIGHTS WHEN THE STATES ARE PASSING LIBERAL STUFF!"  Remember that I'm not the one defending policies by invoking "states' rights."
 
2014-01-15 11:32:48 AM  

Chummer45: I'm not say it's all bad. It's primarily right wing southern politics that I take issue with.


As do I, quite often. There is a certain duality to the South that one must endure to live here.
 
2014-01-15 11:33:21 AM  

The My Little Pony Killer: natas6.0: there is no right to avoid being offended by something

Okay?

So stop acting so offended that you need to change your racist traitor street names.


This X 1000
 
2014-01-15 11:34:21 AM  

Nabb1: Chummer45: I'm not say it's all bad. It's primarily right wing southern politics that I take issue with.

As do I, quite often. There is a certain duality to the South that one must endure to live here.


I could see that.  Hell, at the end of the day it's not that different from the dynamic in Michigan.  A decent amount of northerner rhetoric tends to be just as racist and ignorant of history as the pro-confederate rhetoric.  Same shiat, different form.
 
2014-01-15 11:36:47 AM  
or at least stop pretending that cries of "states rights" have nothing to do with slavery


I'm all for states' rights over federal government
However, I oppose slavery. Crazy, huh?


You should probably read the constitution when you get a chance.



why? it's pretty much just for show now
 
2014-01-15 11:37:53 AM  
ciberido: varmitydog: The politician who is pushing this, Justin Wilson, is a white guy who is a member of the NAACP. Which begs the question: Why would a white guy be in the NAACP?

Probably for the same reason there were white abolitionists and there are male feminists and straight gay-rights advocates. I'm not sure, but I would guess it has something to do with being insufficiently selfish and myopic
.

The white abolitionists is easy to understand, folks being against slavery on religious and moral grounds. And straight gay-rights advocates are weird, but understandable. But male feminists? Being a pussy whipped man is nothing to be proud about.

No, I figure the guy is just a professional politician pandering for the black vote in Alexandria. And like most politicians pandering for votes, this will cost the taxpayers. They renamed a street down here on Panama City Beach Florida after some crooked politician and it cost the city about 35K in new signs for the renamed road. And that was 15 years ago and this guy wants to do it on a much larger scale.

Either that, or he's the gentrified version of this:
media.urbandictionary.com
 
2014-01-15 11:41:13 AM  

Chummer45: Nabb1: Chummer45: I'm not say it's all bad. It's primarily right wing southern politics that I take issue with.

As do I, quite often. There is a certain duality to the South that one must endure to live here.

I could see that.  Hell, at the end of the day it's not that different from the dynamic in Michigan.  A decent amount of northerner rhetoric tends to be just as racist and ignorant of history as the pro-confederate rhetoric.  Same shiat, different form.


And, much like the north, there is often a large difference between living in a large city as opposed to some small backwater burg. And some cities are more conservative than others, of course, but places like New Orleans, Atlanta, Charlotte, Charleston tend to have a different vibe. And then there are college towns like Athens, or enclaves like Asheville. You just have to seek those places out.
 
2014-01-15 11:41:45 AM  

Latinwolf: Baron Harkonnen: [upload.wikimedia.org image 409x557]

Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea [of racial equality]; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition.  -Alexander Stephens, Vice-President of the Confederate States of America.

Of course the average Libertarian will claim that racism had no role in why the confederacy was formed.


One reason for the Abolition movement is that a large number of the white folk up north did not want slaves moving up there to escape slavery.

/Some were truly concerned about the plight of slaves.
//Others were NIMBY
 
2014-01-15 11:42:26 AM  

doubled99: or at least stop pretending that cries of "states rights" have nothing to do with slavery


I'm all for states' rights over federal government
However, I oppose slavery. Crazy, huh?


You should probably read the constitution when you get a chance.


why? it's pretty much just for show now


True.  why bother learning about a document when you can just defend what you imagine it to be.
 
2014-01-15 11:42:32 AM  
To be fair, they should name all East West streets after slaves, lynch victims and non-white rape victims.

That would meet the "fair and balanced" commentary requirements according to which there are two and only two possible point of views--the deranged paranoid fantasies of the right and a feeble rebuttal from a tame liberal on a leash.
 
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