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(WTOP)   The city of Alexandria, VA is considering the repeal of an old law that forces it to name all North-South streets after racist traitors   (wtop.com) divider line 234
    More: Hero, Virginia City, Sons of Confederate Veterans, Dred Scott, Robert E. Lee, repeal  
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7362 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Jan 2014 at 9:51 AM (37 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-15 10:26:00 AM
I didn't realize it was a law.  Well, I guess we could start renaming the streets after worthier people, but it would open up a can of worms.  Are we also going to rename Fort Bragg?
 
2014-01-15 10:26:46 AM

Baron Harkonnen: [upload.wikimedia.org image 409x557]

Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea [of racial equality]; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition.  -Alexander Stephens, Vice-President of the Confederate States of America.


Geez, Southerners turned into inbred hicks almost immediately.  That guy looks like he's subsisted on chewing tobacco for over twenty years.
 
2014-01-15 10:26:53 AM

Farce-Side: Meh.  As a Southerner, who give a f*ck?  I'm not more or less likely to drive down Robert E. Lee parkway than William Tecumseh Sherman Blvd. simply because of the name.


Alright, then by that logic you shouldn't have a problem with them repealing the law that requires it, right?
 
2014-01-15 10:28:01 AM

mongbiohazard: Farce-Side: Meh.  As a Southerner, who give a f*ck?  I'm not more or less likely to drive down Robert E. Lee parkway than William Tecumseh Sherman Blvd. simply because of the name.

Alright, then by that logic you shouldn't have a problem with them repealing the law that requires it, right?


Have no problem with that at all.  Repeal the law.
 
2014-01-15 10:28:05 AM

spicorama: Nabb1: Farce-Side: Meh.  As a Southerner, who give a f*ck?  I'm not more or less likely to drive down Robert E. Lee parkway than William Tecumseh Sherman Blvd. simply because of the name.

No, this is a very BIG deal to some northern FARKers who every once in a while feel like we are supposed to kiss their asses because of the outcome of a war that ended 150 years ago that none of us fought in. AFAIAC, if folks want to change the street names, change them.

Im sorry but other than to laugh and chuckle at online articles during lunch, most of us dont give a flying fark about the south or think about it at all... its a null topic of conversation.


Oh, there are some folks here who show up to every single one of these and get all ITG about how the North should "march to the sea" again, like their corpulent asses would be anywhere near any real combat if that happened. It's pretty sad, I guess, but amusing much the same.
 
2014-01-15 10:28:43 AM

Lucky LaRue: Technically, that is a Godwin


No it isn't. I wasn't claiming the Confederates were wrong due to being similar to Hitler in some way, I was pointing out that "They escaped punishment, therefore they're innocent" is an idiotic argument. Plenty of people get away with committing crimes. Jack the Ripper was never caught, Kim Jong Il got weeks of mourning from the country he ruined post-death, Jimmy Saville molested hundreds of children and it was covered up, etc.

Chummer45: The right wing has developed an imaginary idea of what the founding fathers and the confederate leaders stood for, which they constantly hold out as a way to justify adhering to regressive beliefs.


It's not the right, it's the South. Northern republicans don't have as much sympathy for them as Southern white democrats do.  Nobody wants to believe they were descended from the "bad guys", so people twist and contort history to be more palatable to them.
 
2014-01-15 10:30:01 AM

spicorama: it's ok, for the people that still believe all that bullshiat, it's a constant reminder of how they got they ass kicked.

/modern civil war would be bloody but the north would win again.


Who is the "they" that got their asses kicked? You know all the people who fought in the civil war are dead, right?

I'm a southerner, but my family didn't even come to America until the 1880's...
 
2014-01-15 10:30:31 AM

GORDON: nmrsnr: Or, they were pragmatists that realized that starting the process of getting back to a peaceful relationship is better served by having the leaders tell their men it's over and getting back to normal lives, rather than executing hundreds if not thousands of (now) citizens.

Maybe.... just maybe.... calling the family members of southerners "racist traitors" even though we are several generations removed from the actual action is possibly not the best way to bring America together.

Not that I am suggesting anyone should lead by example or rise above pettiness or anything.  That's probably racist to suggest that.


Subby didn't call the descendants racist traitors, he was calling the people who actually waged the war - commanding legions of men to kill and die to protect slavery - racist traitors. That seems entirely reasonable, since those confederate leaders were in fact racist traitors. The whole "sins of the father" act is something your brought in yourself.
 
2014-01-15 10:31:25 AM

Adss2009: The law is just trying to repeal the requirement of naming new streets after Confederate Generals, not rename any streets currently there. I think that (very unlikely) if any new streets are actually built in Alexandria, being allowed to name them whatever the fark they want rather than on some antiquated idea of southern pride is at least tolerable.

/doesn't prevent anyone from naming them after generals either...


Exactly - it's not even that antiquated. The law dates from 1963, and the area was civil war crazy during the centennial of the war (my parent's high school yearbook from that time is chock full of civil war stuff -e.g., the 'senior superlative' photos were taken at the Bull Run battlefield)

I wonder if the law has had any effect in the last 50 years ...

/applauds the effort to remove anachronistic laws from the books
//descendant of Confederates
 
2014-01-15 10:31:32 AM

mongbiohazard: GORDON: nmrsnr: Or, they were pragmatists that realized that starting the process of getting back to a peaceful relationship is better served by having the leaders tell their men it's over and getting back to normal lives, rather than executing hundreds if not thousands of (now) citizens.

Maybe.... just maybe.... calling the family members of southerners "racist traitors" even though we are several generations removed from the actual action is possibly not the best way to bring America together.

Not that I am suggesting anyone should lead by example or rise above pettiness or anything.  That's probably racist to suggest that.

Subby didn't call the descendants racist traitors, he was calling the people who actually waged the war - commanding legions of men to kill and die to protect slavery - racist traitors. That seems entirely reasonable, since those confederate leaders were in fact racist traitors. The whole "sins of the father" act is something your brought in yourself.


Interesting that streets named after the racist traitors Washington, Jefferson, etc... are still fine...
 
2014-01-15 10:32:09 AM
The politician who is pushing this, Justin Wilson, is a white guy who is a member of the NAACP.
Which begs the question: Why would a white guy be in the NAACP?
 
2014-01-15 10:32:21 AM
I work in Old Town and they mostly use royal titles as street names here.

Talk about traitorous!
 
2014-01-15 10:32:23 AM
So no more streets named after democrats huh?
 
2014-01-15 10:32:24 AM

Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: I didn't realize it was a law.  Well, I guess we could start renaming the streets after worthier people, but it would open up a can of worms.  Are we also going to rename Fort Bragg?


I think we shouldn't rename anything except for streets and public institutions named after Forrest. We should just stop naming new thins after Confederates. America had a glorious history after the Civil War, including war heroes from World War II and Civil Rights leaders and activists.p
 
2014-01-15 10:32:58 AM

GORDON: Maybe.... just maybe.... calling the family members of southerners "racist traitors" even though we are several generations removed from the actual action is possibly not the best way to bring America together.Not that I am suggesting anyone should lead by example or rise above pettiness or anything. That's probably racist to suggest that.


Worry not bro...down here in Dixie we are highly amused at all the "historians" on this site.  Threads with "Racist Traitors" in the subject are the modmins favorite subjects and are pretty much guaranteed to go green.

Besides, they do need *something* to get their jollies....what with the SEC whuppin' some serious northern ass year after year after year after year.
 
2014-01-15 10:33:04 AM

Gunther: Lucky LaRue: Technically, that is a Godwin

No it isn't. I wasn't claiming the Confederates were wrong due to being similar to Hitler in some way, I was pointing out that "They escaped punishment, therefore they're innocent" is an idiotic argument. Plenty of people get away with committing crimes. Jack the Ripper was never caught, Kim Jong Il got weeks of mourning from the country he ruined post-death, Jimmy Saville molested hundreds of children and it was covered up, etc.

Chummer45: The right wing has developed an imaginary idea of what the founding fathers and the confederate leaders stood for, which they constantly hold out as a way to justify adhering to regressive beliefs.

It's not the right, it's the South. Northern republicans don't have as much sympathy for them as Southern white democrats do.  Nobody wants to believe they were descended from the "bad guys", so people twist and contort history to be more palatable to them.



Really?  You're going to argue that "southern white democrats" are the real confederate sympathizers? Maybe in the 1950s.  I guess it's predictable that you'd drag out this tired argument, where we pretend that the dixiecrats still exist and that the GOP's southern strategy never happened.
 
2014-01-15 10:33:40 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Interesting that streets named after the racist traitors Washington, Jefferson, etc... are still fine...


"History is written by the winners."
                                    -Shia Lebouf
 
2014-01-15 10:33:41 AM

GORDON: Not that I am suggesting anyone should lead by example or rise above pettiness or anything.


OK. But in return could we end things like "Lee-Jackson Day" and Confederate History Month at least?

/ Actually want Maryland to celebrate CHM
// We should put up a big banner on the Potomac facing Virginia that says YOU LOST! GET THE fark OVER IT!
 
2014-01-15 10:35:16 AM

CheatCommando: OK. But in return could we end things like "Lee-Jackson Day" and Confederate History Month at least?


I think you just made that sh*t up.  I've lived in the south my entire life and have never heard of these things being celebrated.
 
2014-01-15 10:36:06 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: spicorama: it's ok, for the people that still believe all that bullshiat, it's a constant reminder of how they got they ass kicked.

/modern civil war would be bloody but the north would win again.

Who is the "they" that got their asses kicked? You know all the people who fought in the civil war are dead, right?

I'm a southerner, but my family didn't even come to America until the 1880's...


Hey, one of my grandfather's came from Italy by way of Genoa in the 1920's, my Irish great-great-grandfather was conscripted into the Union Army right on the docks in New York, but somehow I bear personal responsibility to some of these Yankees around here.
 
2014-01-15 10:36:40 AM

Farce-Side: CheatCommando: OK. But in return could we end things like "Lee-Jackson Day" and Confederate History Month at least?

I think you just made that sh*t up.  I've lived in the south my entire life and have never heard of these things being celebrated.


I've lived in Texas and have never heard of it.

But it looks like something like that does exist. Wiki
 
2014-01-15 10:36:47 AM

Farce-Side: CheatCommando: OK. But in return could we end things like "Lee-Jackson Day" and Confederate History Month at least?

I think you just made that sh*t up.  I've lived in the south my entire life and have never heard of these things being celebrated.


Lee-Jackson day is a Virginia thing
 
2014-01-15 10:37:16 AM

Farce-Side: CheatCommando: OK. But in return could we end things like "Lee-Jackson Day" and Confederate History Month at least?

I think you just made that sh*t up.  I've lived in the south my entire life and have never heard of these things being celebrated.


Uh, Lee-Jackson Day is a real thing in Virginia. Just FYI.
 
2014-01-15 10:38:46 AM
So Washington was a traitor?  N./S. Washington Street is the main street that goes through Old Town Alexandria.  And the north/south street closest to the river is Union Street.
 
2014-01-15 10:39:42 AM

Nabb1: Farce-Side: CheatCommando: OK. But in return could we end things like "Lee-Jackson Day" and Confederate History Month at least?

I think you just made that sh*t up.  I've lived in the south my entire life and have never heard of these things being celebrated.

Uh, Lee-Jackson Day is a real thing in Virginia. Just FYI.


It is popular as well in rural Southern areas outside of Virginia, such as the Northwest corner of Georgia.
 
2014-01-15 10:39:43 AM

Nabb1: Farce-Side: CheatCommando: OK. But in return could we end things like "Lee-Jackson Day" and Confederate History Month at least?

I think you just made that sh*t up.  I've lived in the south my entire life and have never heard of these things being celebrated.

Uh, Lee-Jackson Day is a real thing in Virginia. Just FYI.



But celebrating Bruce Lee and Michael Jackson isn't racist!
 
2014-01-15 10:40:07 AM

Farce-Side: I think you just made that sh*t up. I've lived in the south my entire life and have never heard of these things being celebrated.


Oh, the Lee-Jackson Day is real, bro.

But it's Spike Lee and Samuel L. Jackson.

/runs from thread
 
2014-01-15 10:40:12 AM

Mateorocks: I'm still irritated that the Seaport Inn became a freaking Starbucks. Progress!



Agree.  They already had a Starbucks a few blocks up!  Miss the Seaport Inn.
 
2014-01-15 10:40:37 AM

ristst: Worry not bro...down here in Dixie we are highly amused at all the "historians" on this site.


I'm actually a historian. The Civil War really isn't my area of expertise, but after looking at primary sources, I see no reason why the term "racist traitor" isn't an accurate description of the Confederacy. They were literally the definition of racists, i.e. they thought that it was possible to establish a hierarchy of races, and they were traitors in that they waged war on their own country.
 
2014-01-15 10:41:23 AM
More mature countries relive separatist pasts with protests, riots, bombings, terrorism, and all that normal kinda stuff.

Americans try to rewrite their history instead. It's breathtaking. And I guess it takes less effort.
 
2014-01-15 10:41:31 AM

scottydoesntknow: Farce-Side: CheatCommando: OK. But in return could we end things like "Lee-Jackson Day" and Confederate History Month at least?

I think you just made that sh*t up.  I've lived in the south my entire life and have never heard of these things being celebrated.

I've lived in Texas and have never heard of it.

But it looks like something like that does exist. Wiki


So Confederate History Month is a recent thing.  Huh.  Never even heard of it, and I live in one of the states that apparently celebrates it, and have for the last 20-something years.
 
2014-01-15 10:42:02 AM

ZAZ: Next step, raze the city so they can start over with politically correct street names.


I don't really care WHY you do it ....
 
2014-01-15 10:44:21 AM

nmrsnr: Or, they were pragmatists that realized that starting the process of getting back to a peaceful relationship is better served by having the leaders tell their men it's over and getting back to normal lives, rather than executing hundreds if not thousands of (now) citizens.


Actually, there were a host of northerners who wanted to do exactly that.  Grant forestalled revenge through the terms of surrender he gave to Lee.

I know how things look now, but back then, the central government wasn't nearly as dominant and people didn't travel as much.  State governments were more influential in individual lives, and state loyalty was far stronger.  Most folks on both sides followed their state in opposition to their personal beliefs on slavery.  (In this case "most" means more than half; a whole lot didn't.)  The Civil War settled the question of which would be dominant, Federal or state.  Also, at the time "preserving the Union" was the major appeal; freeing the slaves was a marginal issue.

Things look very different with 150 years of perspective.
 
2014-01-15 10:44:59 AM

trickymoo: scottydoesntknow: Lando Lane

That lane is getting worse all the time! But damnit if they dont have the smoothest Colt 45's this side of the galaxy


I am altering the lane. Pray I don't alter it any further.
 
2014-01-15 10:45:14 AM

spicorama: /modern civil war would be bloody but the north would win again.


Nah, not even.  The modern civil war is ongoing, is quite bloody, and is waged on the gridiron.

FYI...the north is losing.  The SEC is whuppin some serious Yankee ass on a consistent basis.
 
2014-01-15 10:47:10 AM

Mr. Holmes: I want all my streets named after racist patriots, and no one else!


You're wrong.  We need to name them after non-racist traitors.

//Who wouldn't want to live on Edward Snowden Blvd?
 
2014-01-15 10:47:38 AM

ristst: spicorama: /modern civil war would be bloody but the north would win again.

Nah, not even.  The modern civil war is ongoing, is quite bloody, and is waged on the gridiron.

FYI...the north is losing.  The SEC is whuppin some serious Yankee ass on a consistent basis.


You're in denial. The SEC has been losing ground to Wall Street every day.
 
2014-01-15 10:48:28 AM

natas6.0: who didn't have slaves? The north had 'em, the south had 'em
Northerers committed horrible atrocities during the war.


So are you trying to say "slavery really wasn't that big a deal" or just "I am a gibbering idiot"?
 
2014-01-15 10:48:56 AM

Chummer45: Really?  You're going to argue that "southern white democrats" are the real confederate sympathizers? Maybe in the 1950s.  I guess it's predictable that you'd drag out this tired argument, where we pretend that the dixiecrats still exist and that the GOP's southern strategy never happened.


I think you misunderstand me. Obviously the GOP is far, far fonder of the confederates than the Democrats, but even amongst the GOP, there aren't many sympathizers in the North. You don't see these kinda laws getting proposed by GOP state senators in New Jersey. Confederate worship in the South crops up in the most astonishing places - I've heard politically liberal southerners opine that the war was fought over "States Rights" and that the union army was far less honorable in the war.

I assume it's just what you get taught as historical fact if you go to school in some places.
 
2014-01-15 10:49:10 AM

Arkanaut: Mr. Holmes: I want all my streets named after racist patriots, and no one else!

You're wrong.  We need to name them after non-racist traitors.

//Who wouldn't want to live on Edward Snowden Blvd?



It has an amazing Neighborhood Watch program.
 
2014-01-15 10:49:15 AM

ristst: spicorama: /modern civil war would be bloody but the north would win again.

Nah, not even.  The modern civil war is ongoing, is quite bloody, and is waged on the gridiron.

FYI...the north is losing.  The SEC is whuppin some serious Yankee ass on a consistent basis.


What does the Securities and Exchange Commission have to do with football?  The only thing the SEC seems to do to Yankee bankers is kowtow to them.
 
2014-01-15 10:49:42 AM

rebelyell2006: Nabb1: Farce-Side: CheatCommando: OK. But in return could we end things like "Lee-Jackson Day" and Confederate History Month at least?

I think you just made that sh*t up.  I've lived in the south my entire life and have never heard of these things being celebrated.

Uh, Lee-Jackson Day is a real thing in Virginia. Just FYI.

It is popular as well in rural Southern areas outside of Virginia, such as the Northwest corner of Georgia.


Yep. There is a reason I have a certain ignorant moron on ignore, and I was just reminded of it.
 
2014-01-15 10:53:15 AM

HeartBurnKid: htomc: Traitors?  What did they do to give aid and comfort to the enemies of the United States?  They just wanted their own separate country- just like the colonists did to the British less than a century before.  Granted, their reasons might not have been quite as honorable, but they did essentially the same thing.

This is true, and our founders were indeed traitors to the British crown.  I feel their treason was justified by their oppression, but that doesn't make it any less so.

How were they any more "traitors" than any person who leaves the US and becomes a citizen of another country?  Does this mean that Tina Turner should now be subject to the death penalty?

I must have missed the part where Tina Turner made war against the United States.


www.donegaldollop.com

I guess she needed to know the way home.
 
2014-01-15 10:53:35 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: mongbiohazard: GORDON: nmrsnr: Or, they were pragmatists that realized that starting the process of getting back to a peaceful relationship is better served by having the leaders tell their men it's over and getting back to normal lives, rather than executing hundreds if not thousands of (now) citizens.

Maybe.... just maybe.... calling the family members of southerners "racist traitors" even though we are several generations removed from the actual action is possibly not the best way to bring America together.

Not that I am suggesting anyone should lead by example or rise above pettiness or anything.  That's probably racist to suggest that.

Subby didn't call the descendants racist traitors, he was calling the people who actually waged the war - commanding legions of men to kill and die to protect slavery - racist traitors. That seems entirely reasonable, since those confederate leaders were in fact racist traitors. The whole "sins of the father" act is something your brought in yourself.

Interesting that streets named after the racist traitors Washington, Jefferson, etc... are still fine...


Washington and Jefferson didn't fight against the US for the Confederate rebellion.
 
2014-01-15 10:54:40 AM
How about they leave them alone and stop trying to be revisionist historians?
 
2014-01-15 10:54:44 AM

scottydoesntknow: Chummer45: The right wing has developed an imaginary idea of what the founding fathers and the confederate leaders stood for, which they constantly hold out as a way to justify adhering to regressive beliefs.

[hdwallpaperdownloads.com image 850x531]

/Even funnier because some stupid Tea Party group used this image without knowing it was A) from a video game, and B) making fun of the entire concept


That's Poe's Law Potato for you.
 
2014-01-15 10:55:46 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: spicorama: it's ok, for the people that still believe all that bullshiat, it's a constant reminder of how they got they ass kicked.

/modern civil war would be bloody but the north would win again.

Who is the "they" that got their asses kicked? You know all the people who fought in the civil war are dead, right?

I'm a southerner, but my family didn't even come to America until the 1880's...


Because nothing was ever done in the South in the name of Jeff Davis and Nathan Bedford Forrest, after the Civil War.
 
2014-01-15 10:56:14 AM

edmo: How about they leave them alone and stop trying to be revisionist historians?


The only people revising history are the Neo-Confederates.
 
2014-01-15 10:56:31 AM

CheatCommando: Yep. There is a reason I have a certain ignorant moron on ignore, and I was just reminded of it.


Awww, now my feels are hurt.
 
2014-01-15 10:57:16 AM

edmo: How about they leave them alone and stop trying to be revisionist historians?


You need to RTFA
 
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