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(WTOP)   The city of Alexandria, VA is considering the repeal of an old law that forces it to name all North-South streets after racist traitors   (wtop.com) divider line 234
    More: Hero, Virginia City, Sons of Confederate Veterans, Dred Scott, Robert E. Lee, repeal  
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7362 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Jan 2014 at 9:51 AM (40 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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vpb [TotalFark]
2014-01-15 08:40:48 AM  
Maybe they should just name all east west streets after Al Qaeda leaders instead.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-01-15 08:43:02 AM  
Next step, raze the city so they can start over with politically correct street names.
 
2014-01-15 09:29:24 AM  
You would think, subby, that if the Confederates were traitors, then at least their leaders would have been judged guilty of the crime.  Maybe, though, the Federalist were just too stupid or too timid to take that kind of action, though.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-01-15 09:43:45 AM  

Lucky LaRue: You would think, subby, that if the Confederates were traitors, then at least their leaders would have been judged guilty of the crime.  Maybe, though, the Federalist were just too stupid or too timid to take that kind of action, though.


They could have been.  President Johnson pardoned them (which obviously he wouldn't have needed to do if they weren't traitors).
 
2014-01-15 09:45:01 AM  

ZAZ: Next step, raze the city so they can start over with politically correct street names.


Hey, I like Alexandria. I also had no idea this was the law.

Lucky LaRue: You would think, subby, that if the Confederates were traitors, then at least their leaders would have been judged guilty of the crime.  Maybe, though, the Federalist were just too stupid or too timid to take that kind of action, though.


Or, they were pragmatists that realized that starting the process of getting back to a peaceful relationship is better served by having the leaders tell their men it's over and getting back to normal lives, rather than executing hundreds if not thousands of (now) citizens.
 
2014-01-15 09:48:40 AM  
They should name them after fictional traitors.

Lando Lane

Cypher Court

Carter Burke Blvd.

Obadiah Stane St.

Peter Pettigrew Parkway

Alec Trevelyan Expressway
 
2014-01-15 09:52:57 AM  
Everybody wait, I have to make some popcorn.
 
2014-01-15 09:53:07 AM  
They should name one after Virginia's greatest son Oderus Urungus.
 
2014-01-15 09:54:59 AM  

Lucky LaRue: You would think, subby, that if the Confederates were traitors, then at least their leaders would have been judged guilty of the crime


...I don't care where your sympathies lie, that's just a farking stupid argument. Hitler never got a trial, does that make him innocent of any crime?

/technically not a Godwin, don't even start.
 
2014-01-15 09:55:58 AM  
Racist Traitor Losers, subby.
 
2014-01-15 09:59:06 AM  
ZAZ


Next step, raze the city so they can start over with politically correct street names.


It is not like they named then Niger Blvd, Chink St, or KKK Way. Yes the Civil war is somewhat of a black eye in American history but much to general public schools it was not all about the rights to slavery. I don't see how a military leaders name could be considered politically incorrect.
 
2014-01-15 10:00:06 AM  
upload.wikimedia.org

Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea [of racial equality]; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition.  -Alexander Stephens, Vice-President of the Confederate States of America.
 
2014-01-15 10:00:22 AM  
Meh.  As a Southerner, who give a f*ck?  I'm not more or less likely to drive down Robert E. Lee parkway than William Tecumseh Sherman Blvd. simply because of the name.
 
2014-01-15 10:00:48 AM  
I want all my streets named after racist patriots, and no one else!
 
2014-01-15 10:02:29 AM  

Gunther: Lucky LaRue: You would think, subby, that if the Confederates were traitors, then at least their leaders would have been judged guilty of the crime

...I don't care where your sympathies lie, that's just a farking stupid argument. Hitler never got a trial, does that make him innocent of any crime?

/technically not a Godwin, don't even start.


Technically, that is a Godwin, especially seeing as how Lee and Davis - far from killing themselves to escape punishment - went on with their lives.
 
2014-01-15 10:02:59 AM  
For your lands! For your wives! For Virginia!

gcaggiano.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-01-15 10:03:44 AM  

Farce-Side: Meh.  As a Southerner, who give a f*ck?  I'm not more or less likely to drive down Robert E. Lee parkway than William Tecumseh Sherman Blvd. simply because of the name.


I travel the route as the Jim Crow flies.
 
2014-01-15 10:04:51 AM  
I'm still irritated that the Seaport Inn became a freaking Starbucks. Progress!
 
2014-01-15 10:04:57 AM  

scottydoesntknow: Lando Lane


That lane is getting worse all the time! But damnit if they dont have the smoothest Colt 45's this side of the galaxy
 
2014-01-15 10:05:58 AM  
I think the law requiring it is stupid, but the act of naming a street after an important person or event in history isn't inherently wrong.  I live near a military base and every street in and around it is named after a battle or a ship, most of which had tons of Americans dying.  It's history, though, and it's always important to recognize it.
 
2014-01-15 10:07:15 AM  

Baron Harkonnen: [upload.wikimedia.org image 409x557]

Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea [of racial equality]; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition.  -Alexander Stephens, Vice-President of the Confederate States of America.


Of course the average Libertarian will claim that racism had no role in why the confederacy was formed.
 
2014-01-15 10:07:31 AM  
who didn't have slaves? The north had 'em, the south had 'em
Northerers committed horrible atrocities during the war.
I live here, in Alexandria
if people don't give a shiat about king/duke street, or Washington for that matter
don't manufacture rage about others
there is no right to avoid being offended by something
 
2014-01-15 10:09:00 AM  

nmrsnr: Or, they were pragmatists that realized that starting the process of getting back to a peaceful relationship is better served by having the leaders tell their men it's over and getting back to normal lives, rather than executing hundreds if not thousands of (now) citizens.


Maybe.... just maybe.... calling the family members of southerners "racist traitors" even though we are several generations removed from the actual action is possibly not the best way to bring America together.

Not that I am suggesting anyone should lead by example or rise above pettiness or anything.  That's probably racist to suggest that.
 
2014-01-15 10:09:32 AM  

natas6.0: who didn't have slaves? The north had 'em, the south had 'em
Northerers committed horrible atrocities during the war.
I live here, in Alexandria
if people don't give a shiat about king/duke street, or Washington for that matter
don't manufacture rage about others
there is no right to avoid being offended by something


Does it really matter to you what the street names are?  Like, do you actually give a sh*t if they're named after Confederate generals or not?
 
2014-01-15 10:10:26 AM  
Malcolm X-Pressway has a nice ring to it
 
2014-01-15 10:10:44 AM  
So the streets are named after the founding fathers? Weird
 
2014-01-15 10:11:26 AM  
Traitors?  What did they do to give aid and comfort to the enemies of the United States?  They just wanted their own separate country- just like the colonists did to the British less than a century before.  Granted, their reasons might not have been quite as honorable, but they did essentially the same thing.

How were they any more "traitors" than any person who leaves the US and becomes a citizen of another country?  Does this mean that Tina Turner should now be subject to the death penalty?
 
2014-01-15 10:12:04 AM  
Latinwolf:
Of course the average Libertarian will claim that racism had no role in why the confederacy was formed.

That's like suggesting the US House of Representatives is based on sextings pics of your penis to women who are not your wife because Anthony Weiner was a rep.
 
2014-01-15 10:12:21 AM  

Lucky LaRue: You would think, subby, that if the Confederates were traitors, then at least their leaders would have been judged guilty of the crime.  Maybe, though, the Federalist were just too stupid or too timid to take that kind of action, though.



Isn't fighting an armed insurrection against your own government kind of the definition of traitor?

I guess maybe you wouldn't see it that way, if you deluded yourself into thinking that the confederates were on the right side of history.
 
2014-01-15 10:12:51 AM  
it's ok, for the people that still believe all that bullshiat, it's a constant reminder of how they got they ass kicked.

/modern civil war would be bloody but the north would win again.
 
2014-01-15 10:13:46 AM  
With malice toward none, with charity for all
 
2014-01-15 10:13:51 AM  

Farce-Side: natas6.0: who didn't have slaves? The north had 'em, the south had 'em
Northerers committed horrible atrocities during the war.
I live here, in Alexandria
if people don't give a shiat about king/duke street, or Washington for that matter
don't manufacture rage about others
there is no right to avoid being offended by something

Does it really matter to you what the street names are?  Like, do you actually give a sh*t if they're named after Confederate generals or not?


What we have here is a good ole fashioned I-Don't-Give-A-shiat Off.  Continue to not giving a shiat, contestants, but at the same time make sure you maintain that rage!  Best of luck.
 
2014-01-15 10:14:50 AM  
Wouldn't be such a problem if they could remember more generals than Lee and Jackson.
 
2014-01-15 10:15:04 AM  

Chummer45: Isn't fighting an armed insurrection against your own government kind of the definition of traitor?


Do you mean like the American colonies against the English crown?
 
2014-01-15 10:15:32 AM  

htomc: Traitors?  What did they do to give aid and comfort to the enemies of the United States?  They just wanted their own separate country- just like the colonists did to the British less than a century before.  Granted, their reasons might not have been quite as honorable, but they did essentially the same thing.

How were they any more "traitors" than any person who leaves the US and becomes a citizen of another country?  Does this mean that Tina Turner should now be subject to the death penalty?


Uhhh Britain did consider them traitors. We don't, but they sure as hell did.
 
2014-01-15 10:16:12 AM  

Lucky LaRue: Chummer45: Isn't fighting an armed insurrection against your own government kind of the definition of traitor?

Do you mean like the American colonies against the English crown?


I dont think that is what he was talking about, no.
 
2014-01-15 10:16:26 AM  

Mateorocks: I'm still irritated that the Seaport Inn became a freaking Starbucks. Progress!


This.

That place was awesome.  The Thai place is very good, but just doesn't work with the Colonial era building.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-01-15 10:16:41 AM  
htomc

The other definition of treason is making war on the United States, with the implicit restriction that it is only treason if one owes allegiance to the United States. If the attempted withdrawl of the Confederacy was invalid, the Confederates were still citizens and those who fought were traitors.

The exact defininition: "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort."
 
2014-01-15 10:17:16 AM  
Dumb:

Random Anonymous Blackmail: I don't see how a military leaders name could be considered politically incorrect.


Dumber:

natas6.0: there is no right to avoid being offended by something


Dumbest:

htomc: How were they any more "traitors" than any person who leaves the US and becomes a citizen of another country? Does this mean that Tina Turner should now be subject to the death penalty?

 
2014-01-15 10:17:27 AM  

Farce-Side: Meh.  As a Southerner, who give a f*ck?  I'm not more or less likely to drive down Robert E. Lee parkway than William Tecumseh Sherman Blvd. simply because of the name.


No, this is a very BIG deal to some northern FARKers who every once in a while feel like we are supposed to kiss their asses because of the outcome of a war that ended 150 years ago that none of us fought in. AFAIAC, if folks want to change the street names, change them.
 
2014-01-15 10:18:02 AM  

Lucky LaRue: Chummer45: Isn't fighting an armed insurrection against your own government kind of the definition of traitor?

Do you mean like the American colonies against the English crown?


The Declaration of Independence was a revolutionary document. By signing it, they were marking themselves as traitors to the English crown. If they lost, they would've been put to death.
 
2014-01-15 10:18:05 AM  
The law is just trying to repeal the requirement of naming new streets after Confederate Generals, not rename any streets currently there. I think that (very unlikely) if any new streets are actually built in Alexandria, being allowed to name them whatever the fark they want rather than on some antiquated idea of southern pride is at least tolerable.

/doesn't prevent anyone from naming them after generals either...
 
2014-01-15 10:18:52 AM  

Farce-Side: natas6.0: who didn't have slaves? The north had 'em, the south had 'em
Northerers committed horrible atrocities during the war.
I live here, in Alexandria
if people don't give a shiat about king/duke street, or Washington for that matter
don't manufacture rage about others
there is no right to avoid being offended by something

Does it really matter to you what the street names are?  Like, do you actually give a sh*t if they're named after Confederate generals or not?



To be fair, most of the founding fathers held profoundly racist beliefs.  I think the difference is that they didn't fight a war over their states' "rights" to own people.

The right wing has developed an imaginary idea of what the founding fathers and the confederate leaders stood for, which they constantly hold out as a way to justify adhering to regressive beliefs.
 
2014-01-15 10:19:22 AM  

htomc: Traitors?  What did they do to give aid and comfort to the enemies of the United States?  They just wanted their own separate country- just like the colonists did to the British less than a century before.  Granted, their reasons might not have been quite as honorable, but they did essentially the same thing.


This is true, and our founders were indeed traitors to the British crown.  I feel their treason was justified by their oppression, but that doesn't make it any less so.

How were they any more "traitors" than any person who leaves the US and becomes a citizen of another country?  Does this mean that Tina Turner should now be subject to the death penalty?

I must have missed the part where Tina Turner made war against the United States.
 
2014-01-15 10:20:31 AM  

Chummer45: The right wing has developed an imaginary idea of what the founding fathers and the confederate leaders stood for, which they constantly hold out as a way to justify adhering to regressive beliefs.


hdwallpaperdownloads.com

/Even funnier because some stupid Tea Party group used this image without knowing it was A) from a video game, and B) making fun of the entire concept
 
2014-01-15 10:21:13 AM  

Random Anonymous Blackmail: ZAZ


Next step, raze the city so they can start over with politically correct street names.


It is not like they named then Niger Blvd, Chink St, or KKK Way. Yes the Civil war is somewhat of a black eye in American history but much to general public schools it was not all about the rights to slavery. I don't see how a military leaders name could be considered politically incorrect.


For the same reason you won't find a Guderianstraße or Jodlstraße in Germany.
 
2014-01-15 10:21:40 AM  
spicorama:  /modern civil war would be bloody but the north would win again.

Bold assumption.  I think the Northeasterners would "Have your confederacy, crackers.  BTW, your accounts are frozen, and anyone with double digits of teeth and a college degree*, the borders are open."

*Offer not valid for graduates of Liberty University or any other evangelical institution.
 
2014-01-15 10:24:34 AM  

vpb: Maybe they should just name all east west streets after Al Qaeda leaders instead.


I think they should name east-west streets after civil rights leaders, and give those streets the right-of-way.
 
2014-01-15 10:25:18 AM  

Nabb1: Farce-Side: Meh.  As a Southerner, who give a f*ck?  I'm not more or less likely to drive down Robert E. Lee parkway than William Tecumseh Sherman Blvd. simply because of the name.

No, this is a very BIG deal to some northern FARKers who every once in a while feel like we are supposed to kiss their asses because of the outcome of a war that ended 150 years ago that none of us fought in. AFAIAC, if folks want to change the street names, change them.


Im sorry but other than to laugh and chuckle at online articles during lunch, most of us dont give a flying fark about the south or think about it at all... its a null topic of conversation.
 
2014-01-15 10:25:36 AM  

Lucky LaRue: Chummer45: Isn't fighting an armed insurrection against your own government kind of the definition of traitor?

Do you mean like the American colonies against the English crown?



Yup.  Look, just because there are historical parallels doesn't mean that the south was on the right side of history in the civil war.  If they were fighting to abolish slavery, or to shake off a truly repressive government, then maybe you'd have a decent point. But the fact of the matter is that the south rose up in rebellion to defend its slavery-based economy.

And if you're asking me to defend the revolutionary war, you are barking up the wrong tree.  We tend to idealize the revolutionary war as something that it wasn't - a popular uprising against an oppressive government.  In reality, it was a rebellion drummed up by wealthy landowners in the colonies who were upset that they didn't have sufficient influence in the british political system.  I like American history too, but we should stop pretending that the revolution was this virtuous, pure, altruistic time in american history.  Most of the people in the colonies at the time of the revolution didn't particularly care - for them it was either be oppressed by the British, or be oppressed by the new U.S. government.   Do you think the average slave, indentured servant, or tenant farmer gave two shiats about the stamp act?
 
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