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(Fox News)   First grader told to stop talking about Bible because "you're not allowed to talk about the Bible in school"   (foxnews.com) divider line 71
    More: Asinine, First Graders, Bibles, Helen Hunt-Jackson Elementary School, graders, elementary schools, layoffs, christmas tradition, California  
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4309 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Jan 2014 at 9:56 PM (48 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2014-01-14 08:48:07 PM  
14 votes:
These same people would have a fit if a Muslim child started talking about the Koran.
2014-01-14 08:43:36 PM  
11 votes:
So here's the way I see it. The school district either:
Made a gross mistake;
Is ignorant of the Constitution;
Is infested with radical secularists who like to bully Christian children:
All of the above.



Or: it's all a bunch of bullshait and never happened.
2014-01-14 08:54:49 PM  
10 votes:
Now be fair Farkers-- don't start blaming Fox News and everyone else who doesn't have multiple piercings and a job that pays by the hour. Fair is fair. This kid can espouse whatever beliefs his little mind can formulate (or more likely regurgitate) as long as he's not interfering with the running of the school. He's not a state institution and the school's not sanctioning his speech.

It's the same darn rule you get to use when they drag out that tired "dude wearing dress gets elected homecoming queen" story each year.  He's expressing his personal opinion. And just like the school can't stop someone from prancing around dressed like a freak, they can't stop someone from yapping about their favorite fairy tale.

Who's with me?
2014-01-14 08:45:31 PM  
9 votes:
A six year old that can recite Bible verses
A law firm called Advocates for Faith and Freedom Fox News Yeah, I'm sure this is an accurate representation of what happened
2014-01-14 09:20:03 PM  
6 votes:
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion

Stopped reading before I even started.


nickdaisy: Who's with me?


Stop asking that. No one is ever going to be with you.
gja [TotalFark]
2014-01-14 11:06:22 PM  
5 votes:

iq_in_binary: OnlyM3: dletter [TotalFark]

Maybe if little Ms. Brainwashed was reading from Genesis instead this wouldn't have been an issue.


Are those of the hebrew faith also brainwashed? Muslims as well. Hindu too?

It is really offensive that so many here are so self-righteous and smug in that they feel ANYTHING except atheism is a mental flaw worthy of derision, scorn, hate, vitriol and mocking.
The bigoted bias is getting old, and tiresome. And......
thedailyshow.mtvnimages.com
2014-01-14 10:13:38 PM  
4 votes:
I thought her speech was kind of adorable. I couldn't help but read it in Charlie Brown's voice.

"Our Christmas tradition is to put a star on top of our tree," the little girl said. "The star is named the Star of Bethlehem. The three kings followed the star to find baby Jesus, the Savior of the world."

Also I don't see the problem with her speech. It would be fun to know about everybody's different traditions and values.

I don't see why a family needs a law firm to represent them over this though. Everybody is over reacting everywhere.
2014-01-14 10:06:20 PM  
4 votes:
Christmas is a Christian holiday.  Why did she give such an assignment if she didn't want to hear about it?  Stupid teacher.
2014-01-14 09:00:43 PM  
4 votes:
I'm about as athy as you can get, and still I say that, assuming this happened as presented, both the teacher and the principal involved in this situation are idiots.
2014-01-14 08:50:56 PM  
4 votes:

what_now: A six year old that can recite Bible verses
A law firm called Advocates for Faith and Freedom Fox News Yeah, I'm sure this is an accurate representation of what happened


This.  I'm absolutely certain the kid was not coached to disrupt class by reciting Bible verses so that when she was told to sit down and shut up, they could run to Fox News screaming "CHRISTIAN PERSECUTION!!!1!!1!!"
2014-01-14 11:09:46 PM  
3 votes:

TwowheelinTim: If I were that student's parent, I'd have an ACLU lawyer so far up that school districts ass they wouldn't know what farked 'em.

And I'm an atheist.

That's just WRONG!


Same. I'm An atheist as well, and know this wrong. It reminds me of a picture my religious zealot friend posted the other day about how bibles weren't allowed in schools anymore, but were in prisons. I called her out on that and pointed out that It's in the constitution that you can have a bible in school. You just can't FORCE kids to follow your religion, which is what I assumed she really meant.
2014-01-14 10:55:37 PM  
3 votes:

theflatline: I would imagine some christian fundie parents and church told the child that their friends and fellow students were going to hell because they did not believe in the particular white Jesus that their church worships, so the poor kid felt like they should convert everyone.


Not always.  Kids like to connect different aspects of their lives with other aspects.  They like having friends from school visit their home to show them their stuff.  Why do you think show and tell is so big for kids?  They like to connect classmates with who they are at home, it isn't till they are teens before kids start putting more separation between home and school.  To kids, separation of Church and State means nothing, they think my friends at school will also like the things I like and I want to share with them.  At that young age, it is the things they like that define them, and they like to get them all together in one place.  My son wasn't told to share his religious beliefs or any suggestion was made to convert anyone.  He just liked to share what he liked and found interesting.  If the adults stayed out of it, the kids would share and give other kids equal time.  Well, the non-bully kids would anyways.
2014-01-14 10:52:37 PM  
3 votes:
Something doesn't quite make sense:

The article says that the assignment was to bring in something representing a family Christmas tradition and to give a presentation on that thing.  It makes no sense to ask students to explain an aspect of their observance of a religious holiday and then object when they start treading into religious territory.

Now, on the other hand, if Fox News is fudging the story as to what the presentation was supposed to be about it could make more sense.  If I assigned a class a presentation on "what I did during my winter vacation" and my student starts his presentation with, "during my winter vacation, I learned the truth of Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior, which I will relate to you as follows . . ."  then maybe I'd ask that student to hold up.

So the question is: can the school be that comically clueless about what it's assigning its kids, or is Fox News just chumming the waters with biased reporting?
2014-01-14 10:31:08 PM  
3 votes:
I could recite several verses from the bible at 6, so that is a pretty invalid statement

/I got better
2014-01-14 10:21:47 PM  
3 votes:
i.imgur.com
2014-01-14 10:14:54 PM  
3 votes:
On the one hand, it is totally plausible that there's a school out there that doesn't understand the separation of church and state and thinks that it means that students can't even discuss religion on their own. After all, many on the right also mistakenly think that the bn on school lead prayer means students can't pray at all.

On the other hand, the story comes entirely from some parents who decided to employ The Advocates for Faith and Freedom when they ran into trouble and the only quote from the school is basically "no comment." Which is a WND level of reporting all sides of a story. And it end with "What would you do if this was your child!?!?!?!"

I'm going to go ahead and bet there's more to this story.
2014-01-14 10:12:11 PM  
3 votes:
Children should not be so well versed.
Parents should lay off the heavy duty religion until the kids are teenagers or later.
The teacher stopped one of the most annoying practices of our time.
At the very least the kid is being taught the boundaries of polite society.
2014-01-14 10:09:13 PM  
3 votes:
Todd Starnes? I'm going to go ahead and assume that there are some significant facts missing from this version of the story.
2014-01-14 10:06:45 PM  
3 votes:
For a Christian leaning network station, Fox News seems to have a lot of hate and intolerance.
2014-01-14 10:06:30 PM  
3 votes:
How would you feel if Brynn was your daughter?

Shocked and puzzled that someone had taught her such nonsense as she was trying to spew in front of the class?
2014-01-14 10:06:20 PM  
3 votes:
Yesterday my 5 year old saw a picture of Shiva and asked who it was. I said he was a Hindu god. She asked me what a god was. I said they were superheroes from another planet. She seemed convinced since he was blue with many arms.
2014-01-15 01:50:35 AM  
2 votes:

Jim_Callahan: Eh, the teacher is actually correct.  The school can't legally give a soapbox to someone that's proselytizing.  I imagine that they don't even have this assignment at higher grade levels for that reason, and only have it at the first-grade level because they didn't imagine that a kid that young could already be so brainwashed they'd memorize a goddamned sermon to spout off when asked how their vacation went.

// On a side note, that's the kind of conversational sabotage crap that will sometimes get your ass kicked as an  adult.  Whether you start reciting the bible or fact sheets about the Pokemon games whenever anyone asks you about anything ever, at the best eventually you're just going to train people never to talk to you ever.


Prosthelytizing is actively attempting to convert someone to your religion, political belief, or opinion. What was described in the article was not an attempt to convert anyone to a religion. Not by a long shot.
2014-01-14 11:57:17 PM  
2 votes:

gja: iq_in_binary: OnlyM3: dletter [TotalFark]

Maybe if little Ms. Brainwashed was reading from Genesis instead this wouldn't have been an issue.

Are those of the hebrew faith also brainwashed? Muslims as well. Hindu too?


Yes.

It is really offensive that so many here are so self-righteous and smug in that they feel ANYTHING except atheism is a mental flaw worthy of derision, scorn, hate, vitriol and mocking.
The bigoted bias is getting old, and tiresome. And......
[thedailyshow.mtvnimages.com image 480x360]


If an otherwise completely sane man told you that he had invented a perpetual motion machine you would think him worthy of derision and scorn.  If you expressed your derision and scorn he would probably also conflate derision and scorn with hatred vitriol and mocking (that's just another word for derision by the way).  Why do you think your delusions should be treated with any greater respect than those of another person?  You say something dumb people will treat it as if it is dumb.  Why should religion get a pass?
2014-01-14 11:30:51 PM  
2 votes:
I just wish that Christians would be adult enough to give the rest of us back the Solstice and move their holiday back to somewhere between March and October. You know when there would have actually been Shepards and sheep in the fields.

Honestly, they sit in a pew every year and talk about Shepard's being in the fields in Palestine in December.
2014-01-14 11:27:55 PM  
2 votes:

gja: iq_in_binary: OnlyM3: dletter [TotalFark]

Maybe if little Ms. Brainwashed was reading from Genesis instead this wouldn't have been an issue.

Are those of the hebrew faith also brainwashed? Muslims as well. Hindu too?

It is really offensive that so many here are so self-righteous and smug in that they feel ANYTHING except atheism is a mental flaw worthy of derision, scorn, hate, vitriol and mocking.
The bigoted bias is getting old, and tiresome. And......
[thedailyshow.mtvnimages.com image 480x360]


No. Sorry. I'm not intolerant, I'm sick and farking tired of having this stupid shiat thrust into the public discussion and for all the sins of the religious right in this country to be tossed out of memory. It's not just atheists that are affected, it's every non Christian in this country that has to put up with the hazing and repetitive belittling.

Lest you forget, it is an issue that they keep pressing.

First these mental midgets started by lobbying a born again Presbyterian President and congress to introduce religious screed to our National Motto and Pledge of Allegiance in the 50s. Not happy with how ingrained secularism was in our society at the time, they then proceeded over the next decades to scrawl their paraphernalia on our courthouses, schools and public institutions all across the country. They've forced themselves into every aspect of our life from our children's education, our employment, and our legislative processes. They were extremely active in the 80's and 90's, blowing up anything and everything they could from the Olympics to the OKC building.

We're talking about the same kinds of people who when called on the failures of Abstinence Only education had the farking gall to say it failed because it wasn't religious enough. The same dipshiats who have passed laws making it implicitly legal to bully children into suicide in the name of their deity.

When the people whose uvulas they've been rather ceremoniously rogering with Jesus' cock bite down a little bit for want of air, they don't then get to claim religious persecution. Religion is fine to practice in the privacy of your own home. The rest of us don't have to put up with it in public, especially where our children are concerned.
2014-01-14 11:14:45 PM  
2 votes:

Gothnet: I said they were superheroes from another planet.


Good thing you're not teaching her to believe bullshiat impossible stories.
2014-01-14 11:08:16 PM  
2 votes:
Oh yay, Todd Starnes again. Rest assured if he's writing about it then it's pretty much guaranteed to be weapons grade bullshiat. It always is with that guy.
2014-01-14 11:00:23 PM  
2 votes:
How in the blue blazes can you talk about Christmas without bringing up the Bible? Christ Mass - yeah, nothing Bible-related about that...
2014-01-14 10:49:08 PM  
2 votes:

what_now: A six year old that can recite Bible verses
A law firm called Advocates for Faith and Freedom Fox News Yeah, I'm sure this is an accurate representation of what happened


Yeah.  Plus: A Todd Starnes column.

Please.  Please.  Stop greenlighting f*cking Starnes columns.  When did Fark start hosting professional trolls?  Didn't QA just get the banhammer for raving?  So it's bad to go loony in the comments, but ok to post loony columnists?
2014-01-14 10:48:57 PM  
2 votes:
dletter [TotalFark]


Was there other Jewish, Muslim, etc kids that were allowed to talk for a minute about their religion in class?

If so, then, there is a point to me made here..... either she should have gotten "equal time", or those kids shouldn't have been able to ramble on either.
Bigot, illiterate, or both?

FTFA (written at 4th-6th grade reading level )
the teacher instructed boys and girls to find something at home that represented a family Christmas tradition. They were supposed to bring the item to school and share the item in a classroom presentation.

Yes every crotch-fruit was able to give their own presentation.

/// fark supported CA forcing children to take islamic names and partake in Jihad games. The bigotry around here is amusing.
2014-01-14 10:46:43 PM  
2 votes:

arentol: what_now: A six year old that can recite Bible verses
A law firm called Advocates for Faith and Freedom Fox News Yeah, I'm sure this is an accurate representation of what happened

Here is what the local rag had to say:

http://temecula.patch.com/groups/schools/p/attorney-temecula-teacher -s tops-1stgrader-from-talking-about-jesus-in-school

The Fox version seems pretty darn close. Don't see a whole lot of spin going on here.
The Law firm is not surprising, it is WHAT THEY EXIST TO DO. If this was you would you take the situation to "Barry's Law and Deli", or "Advocates for Faith and Freedom" (Especially given the latter isn't going to charge you). Seems pretty obvious to me.
It isn't that long of a verse and nor that hard to memorize. Nor do we have any evidence she didn't have that part written down. Did she probably get help from her parents? I am sure she did. But I see no reason to believe that it was a vast conspiracy. It was almost definitely just christian parents helping their kid do what she wanted to do, and a teacher being a complete dick about it and violating her human rights. (Human rights because the whole point of our Constitution is to protect the rights that we already have as humans).

\Glad I don't know you IRL.
\\I prefer people that are not prejudiced.



A 6-y.o reciting verses is the most believable bit. I've known plenty of people whose little kids can recite Bible verses. They don't even have to teach it themselves, just drop the kids at church camp/daycare. Good for cheap bragging rights at church, etc. And 3:16 is going to be at the top of the list.
2014-01-14 10:35:25 PM  
2 votes:

what_now: A six year old that can recite Bible verses
A law firm called Advocates for Faith and Freedom Fox News Yeah, I'm sure this is an accurate representation of what happened


Here is what the local rag had to say:

http://temecula.patch.com/groups/schools/p/attorney-temecula-teacher -s tops-1stgrader-from-talking-about-jesus-in-school

The Fox version seems pretty darn close. Don't see a whole lot of spin going on here.
The Law firm is not surprising, it is WHAT THEY EXIST TO DO. If this was you would you take the situation to "Barry's Law and Deli", or "Advocates for Faith and Freedom" (Especially given the latter isn't going to charge you). Seems pretty obvious to me.
It isn't that long of a verse and nor that hard to memorize. Nor do we have any evidence she didn't have that part written down. Did she probably get help from her parents? I am sure she did. But I see no reason to believe that it was a vast conspiracy. It was almost definitely just christian parents helping their kid do what she wanted to do, and a teacher being a complete dick about it and violating her human rights. (Human rights because the whole point of our Constitution is to protect the rights that we already have as humans).

\Glad I don't know you IRL.
\\I prefer people that are not prejudiced.
2014-01-14 10:28:10 PM  
2 votes:

Willie L: Christmas is a Christian holiday.  Why did she give such an assignment if she didn't want to hear about it?  Stupid teacher.


Because that didn't happen

/holiday traditions, maybe
//winter break, better chance, it's farking January!
2014-01-14 10:25:59 PM  
2 votes:
If I were that student's parent, I'd have an ACLU lawyer so far up that school districts ass they wouldn't know what farked 'em.

And I'm an atheist.

That's just WRONG!
2014-01-14 10:11:18 PM  
2 votes:
A few more details here. From what's come out, it looks likely that the teacher and principal screwed up.
2014-01-14 10:04:17 PM  
2 votes:
So, how long did her parents coach her on the proper actions so that they could get the desired response?
2014-01-14 09:37:43 PM  
2 votes:

Weaver95: mamoru: I'm about as athy as you can get, and still I say that, assuming this happened as presented, both the teacher and the principal involved in this situation are idiots.

lets just say that fox news does not have the most trustworthy reputation when it comes to stories such as this one....


Oh no doubt. On the other hand, school principals are often not the most intelligent folks on the planet, nor are elementary school teachers (despite my immense respect for them for dealing with little hellions).

Either way, there seems to be a lot of stupidity involved in this story. ;)
2014-01-14 09:35:34 PM  
2 votes:

nickdaisy: Now be fair Farkers-- don't start blaming Fox News and everyone else who doesn't have multiple piercings and a job that pays by the hour. Fair is fair. This kid can espouse whatever beliefs his little mind can formulate (or more likely regurgitate) as long as he's not interfering with the running of the school. He's not a state institution and the school's not sanctioning his speech.

It's the same darn rule you get to use when they drag out that tired "dude wearing dress gets elected homecoming queen" story each year.  He's expressing his personal opinion. And just like the school can't stop someone from prancing around dressed like a freak, they can't stop someone from yapping about their favorite fairy tale.

Who's with me?



Sure, if he isn't being disruptive or harassing, he has every right to talk about the Bible, and to include it appropriately in such a presentation should've been fine. If the school told him differently, they farked up.

BUT a school that is that farking paranoid about tripping over the establishment clause (or alternatively, has it out for Christians) requiring first-graders do a presentation on their family's Christmas traditions?!? These two things do not jibe. AT ALL. So this smells like a big helping of total bullshiat.
2014-01-14 09:24:20 PM  
2 votes:
this reminds me of the time when Fox news went on this big rant about the evils of recognizing pagan holidays as valid religious holidays....
2014-01-14 09:10:40 PM  
2 votes:

i1089.photobucket.com

2014-01-14 09:07:45 PM  
2 votes:

what_now: A six year old that can recite Bible verses
A law firm called Advocates for Faith and Freedom Fox News Yeah, I'm sure this is an accurate representation of what happened


Fox News: Bearing false witness since 1996.
2014-01-14 08:56:49 PM  
2 votes:
Was there other Jewish, Muslim, etc kids that were allowed to talk for a minute about their religion in class?

If so, then, there is a point to me made here..... either she should have gotten "equal time", or those kids shouldn't have been able to ramble on either.

Otherwise, shuddup.
2014-01-15 10:06:25 AM  
1 votes:
*sigh* When you don't pay teachers enough this is what you get. Stupid teacher, as an employee of the school district you, the teacher, can't talk about religion (any of them), can't encourage children to talk about religion (any of them), and certainly can't lead prayer. A child can pray in school, can talk about their traditions, and can preach their religion as an individual.

As an atheist, sometimes I wonder how in the fark we evolved to be tool using, pattern recognizing, enlightened apes.
2014-01-15 09:16:14 AM  
1 votes:
let the kid read her fairy tale. what's it going to do? make fewer kids believe in santa? make some atheist kids go home and ask "who is god?" and give their parents a chance to explain how people make up magical men in the sky so they don't have to think about how the entirety of human existence has played out on the surface of a tiny ball of rock hurtling through the howling vacuum of space, circling a huge nuclear reaction which will one day reach out and scorch this planet to a cinder.
2014-01-15 08:24:24 AM  
1 votes:

gja: Good for you! You have decided any religious belief is dumb without qualifying or quantifying what and how those people keep to it.


This is correct. I don't believe that magic is real.  I have seen no evidence whatsoever of magic being real and blind belief without evidence is pretty damn dumb.

Is it suffocating in such a closed mind?

Nope.

False physics is not equal to religion. Not always.

Actually it's pretty much exactly the same. All magical claims made by theists are false physics.


Without knowing the person and what they hold as beliefs you are yourself dumb since you use such a blindly broad brush to paint them.

I don't care why someone believes in things that they have zero evidence to support. Also I never called theists dumb, just their beliefs.
2014-01-15 07:33:10 AM  
1 votes:

Divinegrace: iq_in_binary: Divinegrace: iq_in_binary: Jesus himself said that prayer in public IS proselytizing.

Go ahead, ask for the bible quotes. I dare you.

and the girl in the article was trying to lead the class in prayer...oh wait, no she wasn't.

Also, It is NEVER wrong to pray to God for the sake of praying to God (in public, in private, during the day, at night, etc)....what IS WRONG is when you pray to God for the sake of 'showing off' to other people.

Which Jesus himself called proselytizing. Follow your own book, fool. You pray in the privacy of your own home.

I was raised Christian. Unless you're regularly volunteering at local soup kitchens, don't even bother.

You may have been raised in a Christian household, but that doesn't mean YOU are a Christian or that you were 'raised Christian'. Regardless of your parents faith and regardless of your upbringing it is clear that your seed of faith was not planted in fertile soil.


You're right. I'm Atheist. But I was raised by Christians. Actual Christians. The type that gave a shiat about the poor and wanted to help people regardless of their religion or sexual orientation. At least initially. My fall from faith was due to people like you. And my fall from faith did nothing to change my sincere faith in Christ. He's my favorite character in the book.

You people shiatting on his name really doesn't help. You should quit it if you have any serious intent on making John's intent a reality. Otherwise, you're not really Christian. Congrats on spreading the pagan faith.
2014-01-15 05:22:07 AM  
1 votes:

iq_in_binary: When the people whose uvulas they've been rather ceremoniously rogering with Jesus' cock bite down a little bit for want of air, they don't then get to claim religious persecution. Religion is fine to practice in the privacy of your own home. The rest of us don't have to put up with it in public, especially where our children are concerned.


Wrong...You DO have to put up with people talking about God in public, just like people of faith have to put up with atheist / agnostics who voice their opinions that God doesn't exist.

That is what freedom of speech is all about...we can't stop you from talking about your complete and total ignorance/stupidity about religion, any more that you can stop us from telling people about the wisdom that comes from faith.
2014-01-15 01:36:23 AM  
1 votes:

iq_in_binary: Piizzadude: iq_in_binary: Maybe if little Ms. Brainwashed was reading from Genesis instead this wouldn't have been an issue

It shouldnt be an issue either way. If that was the assignment, then she should have been allowed to talk as when wanted.

I think it is being blown out of proportion, but I also think that the teacher overreacted.

And how was John 3 16 related to Christmas? I could MAYBE see Easter.

It was proselytizing, plain and simple. Teacher was in the right.


Following 6th grade logic, having been in the girls shoes, I do get it. The star is their tradition, mommy said the star was about jesus....and you can follow the logic through to 3:16.

Apparently the girl was following the assignment, and if the teacher says nothing, we hear nothing of this.
2014-01-15 12:13:50 AM  
1 votes:

Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: nickdaisy: Now be fair Farkers-- don't start blaming Fox News and everyone else who doesn't have multiple piercings and a job that pays by the hour. Fair is fair. This kid can espouse whatever beliefs his little mind can formulate (or more likely regurgitate) as long as he's not interfering with the running of the school. He's not a state institution and the school's not sanctioning his speech.

It's the same darn rule you get to use when they drag out that tired "dude wearing dress gets elected homecoming queen" story each year.  He's expressing his personal opinion. And just like the school can't stop someone from prancing around dressed like a freak, they can't stop someone from yapping about their favorite fairy tale.

Who's with me?

Trolly phrasing aside, I'm with you.

Wear a garbage bag and read the Upanishad or whatever. Long as it ain't official school policy, I don't care.


And when crazed religionists have recruited dozens of kids at each school to stand up and spontaneously start proselytizing in class, that'll be a-ok?
2014-01-14 11:47:46 PM  
1 votes:

serial_crusher: NathanAllen: I just wish that Christians would be adult enough to give the rest of us back the Solstice and move their holiday back to somewhere between March and October. You know when there would have actually been Shepards and sheep in the fields.

Honestly, they sit in a pew every year and talk about Shepard's being in the fields in Palestine in December.

Climate change?


Constantine knew that he couldn't manage such a mire of a state religious situation without trying to make the new religion sweeping like wildfire through his region attractive to the unconverted. Saturnalia, Yule, I don't think Dies Notalis Solis Invicti was around during Constantine's time, but the solstice and equinox holidays celebrated by practically every culture in the region at the time was a good way of easing conversion while he consolidated power in the church. Some shifting had to be done in order to manage it.

Easter is another example of this strategic shifting. If I remember the most likely time for Jesus's crucifixion would have been well into summer. I'm too lazy to track all the papers down to cite, but that's the gist of it.
2014-01-14 11:25:11 PM  
1 votes:
It used to be considered just "that's cute" when a little kiddie stood up and did that.
2014-01-14 11:23:37 PM  
1 votes:
Fine by me. Oh, and screw Xmas. Just give gifts and be good to each other.
2014-01-14 11:13:26 PM  
1 votes:

Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: serial_crusher: Sounds to me like her assignment was to talk about her show and tell item.  If her item had been a bible, I'd say quotes from it were fair game.  Nope, she brought a star.  John 3:16 has nothing to do with stars.  It's really more of an Easter thing.

I thought 3:16 was more about rainbow colored wigs.


It's about winning football games.
2014-01-14 11:12:50 PM  
1 votes:
I've never read an article from this author regarding an event that actually happened.
2014-01-14 11:07:11 PM  
1 votes:

Piizzadude: iq_in_binary: Maybe if little Ms. Brainwashed was reading from Genesis instead this wouldn't have been an issue

It shouldnt be an issue either way. If that was the assignment, then she should have been allowed to talk as when wanted.

I think it is being blown out of proportion, but I also think that the teacher overreacted.


And how was John 3 16 related to Christmas? I could MAYBE see Easter.

It was proselytizing, plain and simple. Teacher was in the right.
2014-01-14 11:06:26 PM  
1 votes:

untaken_name: How in the blue blazes can you talk about Christmas without bringing up the Bible? Christ Mass - yeah, nothing Bible-related about that...


i162.photobucket.com
2014-01-14 10:58:19 PM  
1 votes:
Has anyone involved in this story ever even spoken to a six year old? This is the biggest steaming pile of bullshiat I've ever heard.
2014-01-14 10:41:25 PM  
1 votes:

Tarkus: These same people would have a fit if a Muslim child started talking about the Koran.


This!
2014-01-14 10:38:27 PM  
1 votes:

MooseUpNorth: FunkOut: Yesterday my 5 year old saw a picture of Shiva and asked who it was. I said he was a Hindu god. She asked me what a god was. I said they were superheroes from another planet. She seemed convinced since he was blue with many arms.

Shame on  you for misinfroming your child. Shiva is a scantily clad ice goddess (or demi-goddess) that you summon in most of the games in the Final Fantasy franchise (except in VIII, where doing so causes you to die of old age waiting for the interminable unskippable summons animations to complete.)


The reason for the VIII summons being unskippable was that you could hold the select button down and then repeatedly tap the square button to boost their damage during the animation
2014-01-14 10:37:36 PM  
1 votes:
I would imagine some christian fundie parents and church told the child that their friends and fellow students were going to hell because they did not believe in the particular white Jesus that their church worships, so the poor kid felt like they should convert everyone.
2014-01-14 10:35:03 PM  
1 votes:

Hickory-smoked: AutumnWind: I don't see why a family needs a law firm to represent them over this though.

They've been waiting years for this, or something they could pretend was this. It's like winning the Persecution Complex Lottery.



I wonder whether they first talked to the "law firm" before or after the alleged shushing.


odinsposse: On the one hand, it is totally plausible that there's a school out there that doesn't understand the separation of church and state and thinks that it means that students can't even discuss religion on their own. After all, many on the right also mistakenly think that the bn on school lead prayer means students can't pray at all.


But is it plausible that such a school also requires 1st graders to participate in an exchange of family Christmas presentations? "Hey, everybody - Moshe, are you listening? - okay, next week you need to tell us how your families celebrate Christmas. What's that, Abu? Well...I don't know. Figure it out. The atheist kid last year managed. By the way, you're all going to need to sit here and listen while your classmates talk about Christmas for a week. Oh and Timmay, make sure not to bring the Bible into this again. That has nothing to do with Christmas." I mean what in the fark.
2014-01-14 10:33:17 PM  
1 votes:

rev. dave: Children should not be so well versed.
Parents should lay off the heavy duty religion until the kids are teenagers or later.
The teacher stopped one of the most annoying practices of our time.
At the very least the kid is being taught the boundaries of polite society.


You're so very wrong. The best time to brainwash a person is when they're young and impressionable.

/recovering catholic
2014-01-14 10:26:26 PM  
1 votes:

Tarkus: These same people would have a fit if a Muslim child started talking about the Koran.


My younger son was like this child when he was still attending a charter school.  He never really told us about what he talked about, but his teacher told us.  There were no issues to worry about.

That being said, if there were any children with different beliefs given the same time to say what they wished, I'll be okay with it.  It does bother me when folks like to shush others by any means necessary, but screaming over them is the most annoying.
2014-01-14 10:22:50 PM  
1 votes:

odinsposse: On the one hand, it is totally plausible that there's a school out there that doesn't understand the separation of church and state and thinks that it means that students can't even discuss religion on their own. After all, many on the right also mistakenly think that the bn on school lead prayer means students can't pray at all.

On the other hand, the story comes entirely from some parents who decided to employ The Advocates for Faith and Freedom when they ran into trouble and the only quote from the school is basically "no comment." Which is a WND level of reporting all sides of a story. And it end with "What would you do if this was your child!?!?!?!"

I'm going to go ahead and bet there's more to this story.


There is but most people forget that you have very few rights to free speech as a minor, especially in school.   The parents are obviously unbalanced zealots and that is unhealthy for the child.   Children are impressionable and develop magical thinking too easily.  This results in religious beliefs based on an unstable foundation of magical thinking and increases the disconnect between reality and religion.   A mature adult who decides to start following a religion has the ability to integrate science with religion and see the weakness of most of the BS.

This child will either become an adult magical thinking zealot or lose all faith and have a negative view of religion.  The parents have made a huge error.
2014-01-14 10:17:09 PM  
1 votes:
Oh god, this went main page.

Well, I'm out of here before people start smearing feces on each other and screaming about chemtrails.

Nighty night.
2014-01-14 10:17:07 PM  
1 votes:
My wife last week: "It's time to take down Christmas."

Me: "I'm reporting your ass to Fox News, Grinch!"

Turns out she was talking about taking down the Christmas decorations. But you can understand my confusion
2014-01-14 10:16:52 PM  
1 votes:

AutumnWind: I don't see why a family needs a law firm to represent them over this though.


They've been waiting years for this, or something they could pretend was this. It's like winning the Persecution Complex Lottery.
2014-01-14 10:13:10 PM  
1 votes:
Hm.  The representatives of the government (local, state, federal), which includes teachers and school administrators, cannot mandate that people be subjected to prayer or proselytizing.  At the same time, government officials cannot prevent people from observing their religion, so long as it doesn't interfere with the rights of others.

This is kind of a strange case.  On the one hand, it doesn't seem wrong to allow the little girl to explain what her family does to observe Christmas, but on the other, if the little girl goes into some kind of speech that causes the other students to be involuntarily subjected to proselytizing, what then?

I'm an antitheist, but want religion to disappear through education and self-reflection, not through any government mandate.  I am not at all sure how this sort of issue should be managed.  Normally, I'm annoyed that people don't understand the simple idea that government officials are not allowed to favor any religion or lack thereof, but that individuals may pray or otherwise observe their religion without prejudice, as long as it doesn't affect others.  This, however, does seem to be a fringe case where the principle itself isn't clear.

The preceding assumes that the article accurately describes what happened.
2014-01-14 09:44:43 PM  
1 votes:
So, they've decided to read books rather than burning them? How quaint.
2014-01-14 09:27:28 PM  
1 votes:

mamoru: I'm about as athy as you can get, and still I say that, assuming this happened as presented, both the teacher and the principal involved in this situation are idiots.


lets just say that fox news does not have the most trustworthy reputation when it comes to stories such as this one....
2014-01-14 08:51:23 PM  
1 votes:
My shady sense is tingling...
 
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