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(Fox News)   First grader told to stop talking about Bible because "you're not allowed to talk about the Bible in school"   (foxnews.com) divider line 198
    More: Asinine, First Graders, Bibles, Helen Hunt-Jackson Elementary School, graders, elementary schools, layoffs, christmas tradition, California  
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4306 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Jan 2014 at 9:56 PM (40 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



198 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-01-14 08:36:27 PM  
The tower of Bibleon begins... HERE.
 
2014-01-14 08:43:36 PM  
So here's the way I see it. The school district either:
Made a gross mistake;
Is ignorant of the Constitution;
Is infested with radical secularists who like to bully Christian children:
All of the above.



Or: it's all a bunch of bullshait and never happened.
 
2014-01-14 08:45:31 PM  
A six year old that can recite Bible verses
A law firm called Advocates for Faith and Freedom Fox News Yeah, I'm sure this is an accurate representation of what happened
 
2014-01-14 08:48:07 PM  
These same people would have a fit if a Muslim child started talking about the Koran.
 
2014-01-14 08:50:56 PM  

what_now: A six year old that can recite Bible verses
A law firm called Advocates for Faith and Freedom Fox News Yeah, I'm sure this is an accurate representation of what happened


This.  I'm absolutely certain the kid was not coached to disrupt class by reciting Bible verses so that when she was told to sit down and shut up, they could run to Fox News screaming "CHRISTIAN PERSECUTION!!!1!!1!!"
 
2014-01-14 08:51:23 PM  
My shady sense is tingling...
 
2014-01-14 08:53:13 PM  

Tarkus: These same people would have a fit if a Muslim child started talking about the Koran.


Probably try to get the child put in protective custody.
 
2014-01-14 08:54:49 PM  
Now be fair Farkers-- don't start blaming Fox News and everyone else who doesn't have multiple piercings and a job that pays by the hour. Fair is fair. This kid can espouse whatever beliefs his little mind can formulate (or more likely regurgitate) as long as he's not interfering with the running of the school. He's not a state institution and the school's not sanctioning his speech.

It's the same darn rule you get to use when they drag out that tired "dude wearing dress gets elected homecoming queen" story each year.  He's expressing his personal opinion. And just like the school can't stop someone from prancing around dressed like a freak, they can't stop someone from yapping about their favorite fairy tale.

Who's with me?
 
2014-01-14 08:56:49 PM  
Was there other Jewish, Muslim, etc kids that were allowed to talk for a minute about their religion in class?

If so, then, there is a point to me made here..... either she should have gotten "equal time", or those kids shouldn't have been able to ramble on either.

Otherwise, shuddup.
 
2014-01-14 08:57:42 PM  
This is Obama's Bibleghazi.
 
2014-01-14 09:00:43 PM  
I'm about as athy as you can get, and still I say that, assuming this happened as presented, both the teacher and the principal involved in this situation are idiots.
 
2014-01-14 09:01:20 PM  
when you name a school after her, that's what you get.

img.fark.net
 
2014-01-14 09:07:45 PM  

what_now: A six year old that can recite Bible verses
A law firm called Advocates for Faith and Freedom Fox News Yeah, I'm sure this is an accurate representation of what happened


Fox News: Bearing false witness since 1996.
 
2014-01-14 09:10:40 PM  

i1089.photobucket.com

 
2014-01-14 09:14:37 PM  

what_now: A six year old that can recite Bible verses
A law firm called Advocates for Faith and Freedom Fox News Yeah, I'm sure this is an accurate representation of what happened


Agreed.

i1214.photobucket.com
 
2014-01-14 09:20:03 PM  
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion

Stopped reading before I even started.


nickdaisy: Who's with me?


Stop asking that. No one is ever going to be with you.
 
2014-01-14 09:20:24 PM  

RedPhoenix122: Tarkus: These same people would have a fit if a Muslim child started talking about the Koran.

Probably try to get the child put in protective custody

Gitmo.
 
2014-01-14 09:24:17 PM  

nickdaisy: Now be fair Farkers--


They're so cute when they're freshly hatched.
 
2014-01-14 09:24:20 PM  
this reminds me of the time when Fox news went on this big rant about the evils of recognizing pagan holidays as valid religious holidays....
 
2014-01-14 09:26:09 PM  
static3.fjcdn.com

Nobody cares, Sean ...

i1.ytimg.com
 
2014-01-14 09:27:28 PM  

mamoru: I'm about as athy as you can get, and still I say that, assuming this happened as presented, both the teacher and the principal involved in this situation are idiots.


lets just say that fox news does not have the most trustworthy reputation when it comes to stories such as this one....
 
2014-01-14 09:35:34 PM  

nickdaisy: Now be fair Farkers-- don't start blaming Fox News and everyone else who doesn't have multiple piercings and a job that pays by the hour. Fair is fair. This kid can espouse whatever beliefs his little mind can formulate (or more likely regurgitate) as long as he's not interfering with the running of the school. He's not a state institution and the school's not sanctioning his speech.

It's the same darn rule you get to use when they drag out that tired "dude wearing dress gets elected homecoming queen" story each year.  He's expressing his personal opinion. And just like the school can't stop someone from prancing around dressed like a freak, they can't stop someone from yapping about their favorite fairy tale.

Who's with me?



Sure, if he isn't being disruptive or harassing, he has every right to talk about the Bible, and to include it appropriately in such a presentation should've been fine. If the school told him differently, they farked up.

BUT a school that is that farking paranoid about tripping over the establishment clause (or alternatively, has it out for Christians) requiring first-graders do a presentation on their family's Christmas traditions?!? These two things do not jibe. AT ALL. So this smells like a big helping of total bullshiat.
 
2014-01-14 09:37:43 PM  

Weaver95: mamoru: I'm about as athy as you can get, and still I say that, assuming this happened as presented, both the teacher and the principal involved in this situation are idiots.

lets just say that fox news does not have the most trustworthy reputation when it comes to stories such as this one....


Oh no doubt. On the other hand, school principals are often not the most intelligent folks on the planet, nor are elementary school teachers (despite my immense respect for them for dealing with little hellions).

Either way, there seems to be a lot of stupidity involved in this story. ;)
 
2014-01-14 09:37:57 PM  
"Bryn was not allowed to finish her presentation by reciting the Bible verse, John 3:16."

well, yeah because BAH GAWD, KING, HERE COMES STONE COLD
 
2014-01-14 09:44:43 PM  
So, they've decided to read books rather than burning them? How quaint.
 
2014-01-14 09:45:36 PM  

mamoru: Weaver95: mamoru: I'm about as athy as you can get, and still I say that, assuming this happened as presented, both the teacher and the principal involved in this situation are idiots.

lets just say that fox news does not have the most trustworthy reputation when it comes to stories such as this one....

Oh no doubt. On the other hand, school principals are often not the most intelligent folks on the planet, nor are elementary school teachers (despite my immense respect for them for dealing with little hellions).

Either way, there seems to be a lot of stupidity involved in this story. ;)


I was about to say - porque no los dos?  Me thinks there is plenty of high-grade stupid to go around here.
 
2014-01-14 10:01:20 PM  

nickdaisy: Now be fair Farkers-- don't start blaming Fox News and everyone else who doesn't have multiple piercings and a job that pays by the hour. Fair is fair. This kid can espouse whatever beliefs his little mind can formulate (or more likely regurgitate) as long as he's not interfering with the running of the school. He's not a state institution and the school's not sanctioning his speech.

It's the same darn rule you get to use when they drag out that tired "dude wearing dress gets elected homecoming queen" story each year.  He's expressing his personal opinion. And just like the school can't stop someone from prancing around dressed like a freak, they can't stop someone from yapping about their favorite fairy tale.

Who's with me?


Trolly phrasing aside, I'm with you.

Wear a garbage bag and read the Upanishad or whatever. Long as it ain't official school policy, I don't care.
 
2014-01-14 10:02:31 PM  

dletter: Was there other Jewish, Muslim, etc kids that were allowed to talk for a minute about their religion in class?

If so, then, there is a point to me made here..... either she should have gotten "equal time", or those kids shouldn't have been able to ramble on either.

Otherwise, shuddup.


I don't think it's an irrational assumption that if they're talking about Christmas traditions that they're going to talk about other traditions, too.
 
2014-01-14 10:04:17 PM  
So, how long did her parents coach her on the proper actions so that they could get the desired response?
 
2014-01-14 10:04:54 PM  
Which bible? The one that was originally translated from Greek; or the one with some oopsie daisies made by good ol' St. Jerome?

/ this is really important for fans of Indiana Jones; St. Jerome kind of made up the term Jehovah
 
2014-01-14 10:05:02 PM  
Subject:
a57.foxnews.com

Reporter:
global.fncstatic.com

Maybe reporter said, "if had a daughter, she might look like Brynn -- well maybe a little derpier but you know close enough for government work."

I, for one, am glad that the teacher was on the job and alert to this pernicious assault of the good book on this class of unsuspecting kids.
 
2014-01-14 10:06:20 PM  
Christmas is a Christian holiday.  Why did she give such an assignment if she didn't want to hear about it?  Stupid teacher.
 
2014-01-14 10:06:20 PM  
Yesterday my 5 year old saw a picture of Shiva and asked who it was. I said he was a Hindu god. She asked me what a god was. I said they were superheroes from another planet. She seemed convinced since he was blue with many arms.
 
2014-01-14 10:06:30 PM  
How would you feel if Brynn was your daughter?

Shocked and puzzled that someone had taught her such nonsense as she was trying to spew in front of the class?
 
2014-01-14 10:06:45 PM  
For a Christian leaning network station, Fox News seems to have a lot of hate and intolerance.
 
2014-01-14 10:08:29 PM  

Tarkus: These same people would have a fit if a Muslim child started talking about the Koran.



I would applaud the child's bravery.
 
2014-01-14 10:09:13 PM  
Todd Starnes? I'm going to go ahead and assume that there are some significant facts missing from this version of the story.
 
2014-01-14 10:11:18 PM  
A few more details here. From what's come out, it looks likely that the teacher and principal screwed up.
 
2014-01-14 10:12:11 PM  
Children should not be so well versed.
Parents should lay off the heavy duty religion until the kids are teenagers or later.
The teacher stopped one of the most annoying practices of our time.
At the very least the kid is being taught the boundaries of polite society.
 
2014-01-14 10:13:03 PM  

NewportBarGuy: So, they've decided to read books rather than burning them? How quaint.


media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com
 
2014-01-14 10:13:10 PM  
Hm.  The representatives of the government (local, state, federal), which includes teachers and school administrators, cannot mandate that people be subjected to prayer or proselytizing.  At the same time, government officials cannot prevent people from observing their religion, so long as it doesn't interfere with the rights of others.

This is kind of a strange case.  On the one hand, it doesn't seem wrong to allow the little girl to explain what her family does to observe Christmas, but on the other, if the little girl goes into some kind of speech that causes the other students to be involuntarily subjected to proselytizing, what then?

I'm an antitheist, but want religion to disappear through education and self-reflection, not through any government mandate.  I am not at all sure how this sort of issue should be managed.  Normally, I'm annoyed that people don't understand the simple idea that government officials are not allowed to favor any religion or lack thereof, but that individuals may pray or otherwise observe their religion without prejudice, as long as it doesn't affect others.  This, however, does seem to be a fringe case where the principle itself isn't clear.

The preceding assumes that the article accurately describes what happened.
 
2014-01-14 10:13:23 PM  
No hero tag for the teacher/school?
 
2014-01-14 10:13:38 PM  
I thought her speech was kind of adorable. I couldn't help but read it in Charlie Brown's voice.

"Our Christmas tradition is to put a star on top of our tree," the little girl said. "The star is named the Star of Bethlehem. The three kings followed the star to find baby Jesus, the Savior of the world."

Also I don't see the problem with her speech. It would be fun to know about everybody's different traditions and values.

I don't see why a family needs a law firm to represent them over this though. Everybody is over reacting everywhere.
 
2014-01-14 10:14:54 PM  
On the one hand, it is totally plausible that there's a school out there that doesn't understand the separation of church and state and thinks that it means that students can't even discuss religion on their own. After all, many on the right also mistakenly think that the bn on school lead prayer means students can't pray at all.

On the other hand, the story comes entirely from some parents who decided to employ The Advocates for Faith and Freedom when they ran into trouble and the only quote from the school is basically "no comment." Which is a WND level of reporting all sides of a story. And it end with "What would you do if this was your child!?!?!?!"

I'm going to go ahead and bet there's more to this story.
 
2014-01-14 10:15:23 PM  

AutumnWind: I don't see why a family needs a law firm to represent them over this though. Everybody is over reacting everywhere.


Because Christian Persecution and War on Christmas and furthermore because.
 
2014-01-14 10:16:52 PM  

AutumnWind: I don't see why a family needs a law firm to represent them over this though.


They've been waiting years for this, or something they could pretend was this. It's like winning the Persecution Complex Lottery.
 
2014-01-14 10:17:07 PM  
My wife last week: "It's time to take down Christmas."

Me: "I'm reporting your ass to Fox News, Grinch!"

Turns out she was talking about taking down the Christmas decorations. But you can understand my confusion
 
2014-01-14 10:17:09 PM  
Oh god, this went main page.

Well, I'm out of here before people start smearing feces on each other and screaming about chemtrails.

Nighty night.
 
2014-01-14 10:18:44 PM  

murderguy: if the little girl goes into some kind of speech that causes the other students to be involuntarily subjected to proselytizing, what then?


Is describing how you celebrate Christmas proselytizing?

The letter also demands TVUSD provide a written apology to Brynn and allow her to complete her speech in class.

Just make your point and leave the Grade 1 kid out of it. She doesn't need to complete the speech in the glare of publicity.
 
2014-01-14 10:20:32 PM  
i thought that said barbies....well of course he should shut up about the bible. would like a kid that quoted scripture at you all day? little freak.
 
2014-01-14 10:21:47 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2014-01-14 10:22:50 PM  

odinsposse: On the one hand, it is totally plausible that there's a school out there that doesn't understand the separation of church and state and thinks that it means that students can't even discuss religion on their own. After all, many on the right also mistakenly think that the bn on school lead prayer means students can't pray at all.

On the other hand, the story comes entirely from some parents who decided to employ The Advocates for Faith and Freedom when they ran into trouble and the only quote from the school is basically "no comment." Which is a WND level of reporting all sides of a story. And it end with "What would you do if this was your child!?!?!?!"

I'm going to go ahead and bet there's more to this story.


There is but most people forget that you have very few rights to free speech as a minor, especially in school.   The parents are obviously unbalanced zealots and that is unhealthy for the child.   Children are impressionable and develop magical thinking too easily.  This results in religious beliefs based on an unstable foundation of magical thinking and increases the disconnect between reality and religion.   A mature adult who decides to start following a religion has the ability to integrate science with religion and see the weakness of most of the BS.

This child will either become an adult magical thinking zealot or lose all faith and have a negative view of religion.  The parents have made a huge error.
 
2014-01-14 10:23:18 PM  

what_now: Oh god, this went main page.

Well, I'm out of here before people start smearing feces on each other and screaming about chemtrails.

Nighty night.


I do not smear my feces, but I do leave a chemtrail when I take a schitt.
 
2014-01-14 10:23:40 PM  

FunkOut: Yesterday my 5 year old saw a picture of Shiva and asked who it was. I said he was a Hindu god. She asked me what a god was. I said they were superheroes from another planet. She seemed convinced since he was blue with many arms.


Shame on  you for misinfroming your child. Shiva is a scantily clad ice goddess (or demi-goddess) that you summon in most of the games in the Final Fantasy franchise (except in VIII, where doing so causes you to die of old age waiting for the interminable unskippable summons animations to complete.)
 
2014-01-14 10:24:40 PM  
"Yo Teach, I'm hardcore into the church of the SubGenius. So you're gonna have to cut me some slack on that homework. Or are you infringing on my religious beliefs?"
 
2014-01-14 10:24:44 PM  

whatshisname: murderguy: if the little girl goes into some kind of speech that causes the other students to be involuntarily subjected to proselytizing, what then?

Is describing how you celebrate Christmas proselytizing?


Not in my opinion, but quoting John 3:16 could be a lead in to proselytizing.  I don't know what her whole speech was, but I do think that it starts to get into a tricky area when you are implicitly forcing the other students to listen to one student's religious beliefs.  As I said, I think this is a fringe case, and I'm not sure how to make hard and fast rules that would permit the appropriate and prevent the inappropriate.
 
2014-01-14 10:25:59 PM  
If I were that student's parent, I'd have an ACLU lawyer so far up that school districts ass they wouldn't know what farked 'em.

And I'm an atheist.

That's just WRONG!
 
2014-01-14 10:26:26 PM  

Tarkus: These same people would have a fit if a Muslim child started talking about the Koran.


My younger son was like this child when he was still attending a charter school.  He never really told us about what he talked about, but his teacher told us.  There were no issues to worry about.

That being said, if there were any children with different beliefs given the same time to say what they wished, I'll be okay with it.  It does bother me when folks like to shush others by any means necessary, but screaming over them is the most annoying.
 
2014-01-14 10:28:10 PM  

Willie L: Christmas is a Christian holiday.  Why did she give such an assignment if she didn't want to hear about it?  Stupid teacher.


Because that didn't happen

/holiday traditions, maybe
//winter break, better chance, it's farking January!
 
2014-01-14 10:30:32 PM  

what_now: Oh god, this went main page.

Well, I'm out of here before people start smearing feces on each other and screaming about chemtrails.

Nighty night.


What's the matter, what_now? Chicken?!
 
2014-01-14 10:31:08 PM  
I could recite several verses from the bible at 6, so that is a pretty invalid statement

/I got better
 
2014-01-14 10:33:17 PM  

rev. dave: Children should not be so well versed.
Parents should lay off the heavy duty religion until the kids are teenagers or later.
The teacher stopped one of the most annoying practices of our time.
At the very least the kid is being taught the boundaries of polite society.


You're so very wrong. The best time to brainwash a person is when they're young and impressionable.

/recovering catholic
 
2014-01-14 10:34:05 PM  
Definitely thermite
 
2014-01-14 10:35:03 PM  

Hickory-smoked: AutumnWind: I don't see why a family needs a law firm to represent them over this though.

They've been waiting years for this, or something they could pretend was this. It's like winning the Persecution Complex Lottery.



I wonder whether they first talked to the "law firm" before or after the alleged shushing.


odinsposse: On the one hand, it is totally plausible that there's a school out there that doesn't understand the separation of church and state and thinks that it means that students can't even discuss religion on their own. After all, many on the right also mistakenly think that the bn on school lead prayer means students can't pray at all.


But is it plausible that such a school also requires 1st graders to participate in an exchange of family Christmas presentations? "Hey, everybody - Moshe, are you listening? - okay, next week you need to tell us how your families celebrate Christmas. What's that, Abu? Well...I don't know. Figure it out. The atheist kid last year managed. By the way, you're all going to need to sit here and listen while your classmates talk about Christmas for a week. Oh and Timmay, make sure not to bring the Bible into this again. That has nothing to do with Christmas." I mean what in the fark.
 
2014-01-14 10:35:25 PM  

what_now: A six year old that can recite Bible verses
A law firm called Advocates for Faith and Freedom Fox News Yeah, I'm sure this is an accurate representation of what happened


Here is what the local rag had to say:

http://temecula.patch.com/groups/schools/p/attorney-temecula-teacher -s tops-1stgrader-from-talking-about-jesus-in-school

The Fox version seems pretty darn close. Don't see a whole lot of spin going on here.
The Law firm is not surprising, it is WHAT THEY EXIST TO DO. If this was you would you take the situation to "Barry's Law and Deli", or "Advocates for Faith and Freedom" (Especially given the latter isn't going to charge you). Seems pretty obvious to me.
It isn't that long of a verse and nor that hard to memorize. Nor do we have any evidence she didn't have that part written down. Did she probably get help from her parents? I am sure she did. But I see no reason to believe that it was a vast conspiracy. It was almost definitely just christian parents helping their kid do what she wanted to do, and a teacher being a complete dick about it and violating her human rights. (Human rights because the whole point of our Constitution is to protect the rights that we already have as humans).

\Glad I don't know you IRL.
\\I prefer people that are not prejudiced.
 
2014-01-14 10:35:28 PM  
fark Temecula.
 
2014-01-14 10:37:36 PM  
I would imagine some christian fundie parents and church told the child that their friends and fellow students were going to hell because they did not believe in the particular white Jesus that their church worships, so the poor kid felt like they should convert everyone.
 
2014-01-14 10:38:27 PM  

MooseUpNorth: FunkOut: Yesterday my 5 year old saw a picture of Shiva and asked who it was. I said he was a Hindu god. She asked me what a god was. I said they were superheroes from another planet. She seemed convinced since he was blue with many arms.

Shame on  you for misinfroming your child. Shiva is a scantily clad ice goddess (or demi-goddess) that you summon in most of the games in the Final Fantasy franchise (except in VIII, where doing so causes you to die of old age waiting for the interminable unskippable summons animations to complete.)


The reason for the VIII summons being unskippable was that you could hold the select button down and then repeatedly tap the square button to boost their damage during the animation
 
2014-01-14 10:40:15 PM  

Mock26: what_now: Oh god, this went main page.

Well, I'm out of here before people start smearing feces on each other and screaming about chemtrails.

Nighty night.

I do not smear my feces, but I do leave a chemtrail when I take a schitt.


You can take mine; I just left one.
 
2014-01-14 10:41:25 PM  

Tarkus: These same people would have a fit if a Muslim child started talking about the Koran.


This!
 
2014-01-14 10:42:27 PM  
The teacher and the principal were in the closet making bibles and I saw one of the bibles and the bible looked at me
 
2014-01-14 10:43:04 PM  
I'm a bit confused here. I'll give you, its easy to do but still, can someone explain this:

"Brynn's teacher said, 'Stop right there! Go take your seat,'" Tyler said. "Bryn was not allowed to finish her presentation by reciting the Bible verse, John 3:16."

What's her name? Is it Brynn or Bryn? This is the issue people.
 
2014-01-14 10:43:45 PM  
♪ Now Teacher don't ya fill me up with your rules... 'cause everybody knows that Bibles ain't allowed in school... ♪

/got nuthin'
 
2014-01-14 10:45:05 PM  
poot_rootbeer: The teacher and the principal were in the closet making bibles and I saw one of the bibles and the bible looked at me

the bible LOOKED at you?!
 
2014-01-14 10:46:43 PM  

arentol: what_now: A six year old that can recite Bible verses
A law firm called Advocates for Faith and Freedom Fox News Yeah, I'm sure this is an accurate representation of what happened

Here is what the local rag had to say:

http://temecula.patch.com/groups/schools/p/attorney-temecula-teacher -s tops-1stgrader-from-talking-about-jesus-in-school

The Fox version seems pretty darn close. Don't see a whole lot of spin going on here.
The Law firm is not surprising, it is WHAT THEY EXIST TO DO. If this was you would you take the situation to "Barry's Law and Deli", or "Advocates for Faith and Freedom" (Especially given the latter isn't going to charge you). Seems pretty obvious to me.
It isn't that long of a verse and nor that hard to memorize. Nor do we have any evidence she didn't have that part written down. Did she probably get help from her parents? I am sure she did. But I see no reason to believe that it was a vast conspiracy. It was almost definitely just christian parents helping their kid do what she wanted to do, and a teacher being a complete dick about it and violating her human rights. (Human rights because the whole point of our Constitution is to protect the rights that we already have as humans).

\Glad I don't know you IRL.
\\I prefer people that are not prejudiced.



A 6-y.o reciting verses is the most believable bit. I've known plenty of people whose little kids can recite Bible verses. They don't even have to teach it themselves, just drop the kids at church camp/daycare. Good for cheap bragging rights at church, etc. And 3:16 is going to be at the top of the list.
 
2014-01-14 10:47:57 PM  

FunkOut: Yesterday my 5 year old saw a picture of Shiva and asked who it was. I said he was a Hindu god. She asked me what a god was. I said they were superheroes from another planet. She seemed convinced since he was blue with many arms.


Approves:
litreactor.com
 
2014-01-14 10:48:57 PM  
dletter [TotalFark]


Was there other Jewish, Muslim, etc kids that were allowed to talk for a minute about their religion in class?

If so, then, there is a point to me made here..... either she should have gotten "equal time", or those kids shouldn't have been able to ramble on either.
Bigot, illiterate, or both?

FTFA (written at 4th-6th grade reading level )
the teacher instructed boys and girls to find something at home that represented a family Christmas tradition. They were supposed to bring the item to school and share the item in a classroom presentation.

Yes every crotch-fruit was able to give their own presentation.

/// fark supported CA forcing children to take islamic names and partake in Jihad games. The bigotry around here is amusing.
 
2014-01-14 10:49:08 PM  

what_now: A six year old that can recite Bible verses
A law firm called Advocates for Faith and Freedom Fox News Yeah, I'm sure this is an accurate representation of what happened


Yeah.  Plus: A Todd Starnes column.

Please.  Please.  Stop greenlighting f*cking Starnes columns.  When did Fark start hosting professional trolls?  Didn't QA just get the banhammer for raving?  So it's bad to go loony in the comments, but ok to post loony columnists?
 
2014-01-14 10:51:08 PM  
Someone forgot the first law of "Bible Study Club"
 
2014-01-14 10:52:33 PM  
That's what he gets for breaking the first rule of The Bible Club.  And the second rule.

/I'm sure someone else has beat me to it.
 
2014-01-14 10:52:37 PM  
Something doesn't quite make sense:

The article says that the assignment was to bring in something representing a family Christmas tradition and to give a presentation on that thing.  It makes no sense to ask students to explain an aspect of their observance of a religious holiday and then object when they start treading into religious territory.

Now, on the other hand, if Fox News is fudging the story as to what the presentation was supposed to be about it could make more sense.  If I assigned a class a presentation on "what I did during my winter vacation" and my student starts his presentation with, "during my winter vacation, I learned the truth of Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior, which I will relate to you as follows . . ."  then maybe I'd ask that student to hold up.

So the question is: can the school be that comically clueless about what it's assigning its kids, or is Fox News just chumming the waters with biased reporting?
 
2014-01-14 10:53:44 PM  

OnlyM3: dletter [TotalFark]


Was there other Jewish, Muslim, etc kids that were allowed to talk for a minute about their religion in class?

If so, then, there is a point to me made here..... either she should have gotten "equal time", or those kids shouldn't have been able to ramble on either. Bigot, illiterate, or both?

FTFA (written at 4th-6th grade reading level )
the teacher instructed boys and girls to find something at home that represented a family Christmas tradition. They were supposed to bring the item to school and share the item in a classroom presentation.
Yes every crotch-fruit was able to give their own presentation.

/// fark supported CA forcing children to take islamic names and partake in Jihad games. The bigotry around here is amusing.


Proselytizing isn't an acceptable school activity. Period.

Maybe if little Ms. Brainwashed was reading from Genesis instead this wouldn't have been an issue.
 
2014-01-14 10:53:48 PM  
brimed03: Didn't QA just get the banhammer for raving?

how? why?
 
2014-01-14 10:55:37 PM  

theflatline: I would imagine some christian fundie parents and church told the child that their friends and fellow students were going to hell because they did not believe in the particular white Jesus that their church worships, so the poor kid felt like they should convert everyone.


Not always.  Kids like to connect different aspects of their lives with other aspects.  They like having friends from school visit their home to show them their stuff.  Why do you think show and tell is so big for kids?  They like to connect classmates with who they are at home, it isn't till they are teens before kids start putting more separation between home and school.  To kids, separation of Church and State means nothing, they think my friends at school will also like the things I like and I want to share with them.  At that young age, it is the things they like that define them, and they like to get them all together in one place.  My son wasn't told to share his religious beliefs or any suggestion was made to convert anyone.  He just liked to share what he liked and found interesting.  If the adults stayed out of it, the kids would share and give other kids equal time.  Well, the non-bully kids would anyways.
 
2014-01-14 10:56:02 PM  

SearchN: I'm a bit confused here. I'll give you, its easy to do but still, can someone explain this:

"Brynn's teacher said, 'Stop right there!


I gotta know right now
Before you go any further
Are you Christian
Will you quote from the Bible
Will you proselytise for the rest of your talk
Will you say religious stuff that'll make us balk
I gotta know right now
Are you Christian
Will you quote from the Bible

Teacher, teacher, let me do my talk
Let me do my talk and you'll have your answer when I'm finished
 
2014-01-14 10:58:08 PM  

Nuuu: So the question is: can the school be that comically clueless about what it's assigning its kids, or is Fox News just chumming the waters with biased reporting?


Hard to say, could be 50/50 really.  We may never really know.
 
2014-01-14 10:58:19 PM  
Has anyone involved in this story ever even spoken to a six year old? This is the biggest steaming pile of bullshiat I've ever heard.
 
2014-01-14 10:58:53 PM  

iq_in_binary: Maybe if little Ms. Brainwashed was reading from Genesis instead this wouldn't have been an issue


It shouldnt be an issue either way. If that was the assignment, then she should have been allowed to talk as when wanted.

I think it is being blown out of proportion, but I also think that the teacher overreacted.
 
gja [TotalFark]
2014-01-14 10:59:47 PM  

biyaaatci: Has anyone involved in this story ever even spoken to a six year old? This is the biggest steaming pile of bullshiat I've ever heard.


Sorry, that prize was claimed long ago by my ex.
 
2014-01-14 11:00:23 PM  
How in the blue blazes can you talk about Christmas without bringing up the Bible? Christ Mass - yeah, nothing Bible-related about that...
 
2014-01-14 11:02:01 PM  
Sounds to me like her assignment was to talk about her show and tell item.  If her item had been a bible, I'd say quotes from it were fair game.  Nope, she brought a star.  John 3:16 has nothing to do with stars.  It's really more of an Easter thing.
 
gja [TotalFark]
2014-01-14 11:06:22 PM  

iq_in_binary: OnlyM3: dletter [TotalFark]

Maybe if little Ms. Brainwashed was reading from Genesis instead this wouldn't have been an issue.


Are those of the hebrew faith also brainwashed? Muslims as well. Hindu too?

It is really offensive that so many here are so self-righteous and smug in that they feel ANYTHING except atheism is a mental flaw worthy of derision, scorn, hate, vitriol and mocking.
The bigoted bias is getting old, and tiresome. And......
thedailyshow.mtvnimages.com
 
2014-01-14 11:06:26 PM  

untaken_name: How in the blue blazes can you talk about Christmas without bringing up the Bible? Christ Mass - yeah, nothing Bible-related about that...


i162.photobucket.com
 
2014-01-14 11:07:11 PM  

Piizzadude: iq_in_binary: Maybe if little Ms. Brainwashed was reading from Genesis instead this wouldn't have been an issue

It shouldnt be an issue either way. If that was the assignment, then she should have been allowed to talk as when wanted.

I think it is being blown out of proportion, but I also think that the teacher overreacted.


And how was John 3 16 related to Christmas? I could MAYBE see Easter.

It was proselytizing, plain and simple. Teacher was in the right.
 
2014-01-14 11:08:16 PM  
Oh yay, Todd Starnes again. Rest assured if he's writing about it then it's pretty much guaranteed to be weapons grade bullshiat. It always is with that guy.
 
2014-01-14 11:09:46 PM  

TwowheelinTim: If I were that student's parent, I'd have an ACLU lawyer so far up that school districts ass they wouldn't know what farked 'em.

And I'm an atheist.

That's just WRONG!


Same. I'm An atheist as well, and know this wrong. It reminds me of a picture my religious zealot friend posted the other day about how bibles weren't allowed in schools anymore, but were in prisons. I called her out on that and pointed out that It's in the constitution that you can have a bible in school. You just can't FORCE kids to follow your religion, which is what I assumed she really meant.
 
2014-01-14 11:10:03 PM  

FunkOut: Yesterday my 5 year old saw a picture of Shiva and asked who it was. I said he was a Hindu god. She asked me what a god was. I said they were superheroes from another planet. She seemed convinced since he was blue with many arms.


Give her a copy of "Lord of Light" by Roger Zelazny in a couple of years, it's basically about that. Well, it's set on another planet and the gods are the folks with high-tech toys. They ain't exactly nice though, and there's a bit of christian overtone towards then end, so maybe best to hold off until her understanding of the world is a little more nuanced.
 
2014-01-14 11:10:56 PM  

jake_lex: This. I'm absolutely certain the kid was not coached to disrupt class by reciting Bible verses so that when she was told to sit down and shut up, they could run to Fox News screaming "CHRISTIAN PERSECUTION!!!1!!1!!"


I share your certainty.   And your sarcasm.
 
2014-01-14 11:11:41 PM  

serial_crusher: Sounds to me like her assignment was to talk about her show and tell item.  If her item had been a bible, I'd say quotes from it were fair game.  Nope, she brought a star.  John 3:16 has nothing to do with stars.  It's really more of an Easter thing.


I thought 3:16 was more about rainbow colored wigs.
 
2014-01-14 11:12:50 PM  
I've never read an article from this author regarding an event that actually happened.
 
2014-01-14 11:13:22 PM  
Religious indoctrination of minors is child abuse.
 
2014-01-14 11:13:26 PM  

Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: serial_crusher: Sounds to me like her assignment was to talk about her show and tell item.  If her item had been a bible, I'd say quotes from it were fair game.  Nope, she brought a star.  John 3:16 has nothing to do with stars.  It's really more of an Easter thing.

I thought 3:16 was more about rainbow colored wigs.


It's about winning football games.
 
2014-01-14 11:13:48 PM  
Matthew 6:5-6

feel free to use it on anyone that brings up prayer before anything.
 
2014-01-14 11:14:45 PM  

Gothnet: I said they were superheroes from another planet.


Good thing you're not teaching her to believe bullshiat impossible stories.
 
gja [TotalFark]
2014-01-14 11:15:54 PM  

Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: serial_crusher: Sounds to me like her assignment was to talk about her show and tell item.  If her item had been a bible, I'd say quotes from it were fair game.  Nope, she brought a star.  John 3:16 has nothing to do with stars.  It's really more of an Easter thing.

I thought 3:16 was more about rainbow colored wigs.


www.amctheatres.com
 
2014-01-14 11:17:09 PM  

ultraholland: brimed03: Didn't QA just get the banhammer for raving?

how? why?


I missed the thread, but apparently he went off on 3D printing-- which apparently was a hobby horse for him-- in a thread that had nothing remotely to do with that topic... it was one straw too many for the mods.  TBH, I don't know a hell of a lot about this, I'm just repeating what someone else explained in a different thread earlier today.  Maybe I shouldn't have referenced it in my rant, in case it isn't what I think it is.  Seeing Starnes columns makes me lose my cool.  And I have so little of that to begin with.

The following was posted-- by QA, or humorous mods, dunno which-- in his profile:

Quantum Apostrophe passed away on December 25th 2013 on a routine space mission. Lightning struck the 3D printer module of the private Mars spacecraft en route to colonize the Red planet. Without a steady supply of plastic trinkets and dubious quality parts, the self-destruct was activated from the ground at 11:00AM EST.
Survived by his two cats, his last wish was that Unchellmatt be reimbursed the fraction of the TF that will not be used, $1.25.


I also see the following has been added, presumably by QA(?):

Somewhere on Mars, in a tool shed behind Elon Musk's condo, lies a Makerbot... Connected to it is a thumb drive with all my posts and DNA... One day a Barsoomian creature will accidentally hit the power switch and I will come back stronger than ever before!

Hey, who are you to tell me the limits of my imagination?

I thought about it, therefore it can will happen!
 
2014-01-14 11:21:55 PM  

mouser_inc: Matthew 6:5-6

feel free to use it on anyone that brings up prayer before anything.


Had to look that one up. It would be a cool one to have on a card in my wallet I could just quietly hand to them with a smile on my face.

Have a nice day...
 
2014-01-14 11:23:37 PM  
Fine by me. Oh, and screw Xmas. Just give gifts and be good to each other.
 
2014-01-14 11:25:11 PM  
It used to be considered just "that's cute" when a little kiddie stood up and did that.
 
2014-01-14 11:27:23 PM  

mouser_inc: Matthew 6:5-6

feel free to use it on anyone that brings up prayer before anything.


There is a difference between those praying for show, and those leading others in a group prayer.  And what about those that pray quietly before they do something like eating alone?

Although, I use that when I think about the folks that believe they have to repent in the middle of a church service as oppose to doing it at home.  I've seen many make a big show about repenting in public.  Protestants are big on that.  If you are really repenting of something, you would pray about it when no one can hear you.  Because then you are more likely meaning it when you aren't doing it to show other people how 'good' you are.  I learned just how fake the public repenting can be, from some 'religious' people I knew as a kid.
 
2014-01-14 11:27:35 PM  

brimed03: ultraholland: brimed03: Didn't QA just get the banhammer for raving?

how? why?

I missed the thread, but apparently he went off on 3D printing-- which apparently was a hobby horse for him-- in a thread that had nothing remotely to do with that topic... it was one straw too many for the mods.  TBH, I don't know a hell of a lot about this, I'm just repeating what someone else explained in a different thread earlier today.  Maybe I shouldn't have referenced it in my rant, in case it isn't what I think it is.  Seeing Starnes columns makes me lose my cool.  And I have so little of that to begin with.

The following was posted-- by QA, or humorous mods, dunno which-- in his profile:

Quantum Apostrophe passed away on December 25th 2013 on a routine space mission. Lightning struck the 3D printer module of the private Mars spacecraft en route to colonize the Red planet. Without a steady supply of plastic trinkets and dubious quality parts, the self-destruct was activated from the ground at 11:00AM EST.
Survived by his two cats, his last wish was that Unchellmatt be reimbursed the fraction of the TF that will not be used, $1.25.

I also see the following has been added, presumably by QA(?):

Somewhere on Mars, in a tool shed behind Elon Musk's condo, lies a Makerbot... Connected to it is a thumb drive with all my posts and DNA... One day a Barsoomian creature will accidentally hit the power switch and I will come back stronger than ever before!

Hey, who are you to tell me the limits of my imagination?

I thought about it, therefore it can will happen!


That must have been the thread about the guy who's car got damaged at Walmart while getting new tires. I remember being in that thread in Christmas and QA coming in there demanding someone explain how 3D printers could fix the car... When no one had mentioned it at all, not even the article.
 
2014-01-14 11:27:55 PM  

gja: iq_in_binary: OnlyM3: dletter [TotalFark]

Maybe if little Ms. Brainwashed was reading from Genesis instead this wouldn't have been an issue.

Are those of the hebrew faith also brainwashed? Muslims as well. Hindu too?

It is really offensive that so many here are so self-righteous and smug in that they feel ANYTHING except atheism is a mental flaw worthy of derision, scorn, hate, vitriol and mocking.
The bigoted bias is getting old, and tiresome. And......
[thedailyshow.mtvnimages.com image 480x360]


No. Sorry. I'm not intolerant, I'm sick and farking tired of having this stupid shiat thrust into the public discussion and for all the sins of the religious right in this country to be tossed out of memory. It's not just atheists that are affected, it's every non Christian in this country that has to put up with the hazing and repetitive belittling.

Lest you forget, it is an issue that they keep pressing.

First these mental midgets started by lobbying a born again Presbyterian President and congress to introduce religious screed to our National Motto and Pledge of Allegiance in the 50s. Not happy with how ingrained secularism was in our society at the time, they then proceeded over the next decades to scrawl their paraphernalia on our courthouses, schools and public institutions all across the country. They've forced themselves into every aspect of our life from our children's education, our employment, and our legislative processes. They were extremely active in the 80's and 90's, blowing up anything and everything they could from the Olympics to the OKC building.

We're talking about the same kinds of people who when called on the failures of Abstinence Only education had the farking gall to say it failed because it wasn't religious enough. The same dipshiats who have passed laws making it implicitly legal to bully children into suicide in the name of their deity.

When the people whose uvulas they've been rather ceremoniously rogering with Jesus' cock bite down a little bit for want of air, they don't then get to claim religious persecution. Religion is fine to practice in the privacy of your own home. The rest of us don't have to put up with it in public, especially where our children are concerned.
 
2014-01-14 11:28:00 PM  

untaken_name: Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: serial_crusher: Sounds to me like her assignment was to talk about her show and tell item.  If her item had been a bible, I'd say quotes from it were fair game.  Nope, she brought a star.  John 3:16 has nothing to do with stars.  It's really more of an Easter thing.

I thought 3:16 was more about rainbow colored wigs.

It's about winning football games.


My memory's a little fuzzy, but I think it had something to do with Stone Cold saying so.
 
2014-01-14 11:30:19 PM  

lack of warmth: There is a difference between those praying for show, and those leading others in a group prayer


Yep, pretty much this.
 
2014-01-14 11:30:42 PM  
Why the fark is there a first grader who won't shut up about the Bible in school? That's clearly not right.
 
2014-01-14 11:30:51 PM  
I just wish that Christians would be adult enough to give the rest of us back the Solstice and move their holiday back to somewhere between March and October. You know when there would have actually been Shepards and sheep in the fields.

Honestly, they sit in a pew every year and talk about Shepard's being in the fields in Palestine in December.
 
2014-01-14 11:31:11 PM  
After we let people take whatever drugs they want as long as they are not harming anyone else, we should bring back circuses and lions.

Then all the Christians who want to claim to be persecuted can do so honestly without breaking the ninth.  It wouldn't need to be mandatory, just let them volunteer.
 
2014-01-14 11:35:14 PM  

NathanAllen: I just wish that Christians would be adult enough to give the rest of us back the Solstice and move their holiday back to somewhere between March and October. You know when there would have actually been Shepards and sheep in the fields.

Honestly, they sit in a pew every year and talk about Shepard's being in the fields in Palestine in December.


Climate change?
 
2014-01-14 11:47:46 PM  

serial_crusher: NathanAllen: I just wish that Christians would be adult enough to give the rest of us back the Solstice and move their holiday back to somewhere between March and October. You know when there would have actually been Shepards and sheep in the fields.

Honestly, they sit in a pew every year and talk about Shepard's being in the fields in Palestine in December.

Climate change?


Constantine knew that he couldn't manage such a mire of a state religious situation without trying to make the new religion sweeping like wildfire through his region attractive to the unconverted. Saturnalia, Yule, I don't think Dies Notalis Solis Invicti was around during Constantine's time, but the solstice and equinox holidays celebrated by practically every culture in the region at the time was a good way of easing conversion while he consolidated power in the church. Some shifting had to be done in order to manage it.

Easter is another example of this strategic shifting. If I remember the most likely time for Jesus's crucifixion would have been well into summer. I'm too lazy to track all the papers down to cite, but that's the gist of it.
 
2014-01-14 11:47:53 PM  
SHUT THE fark UP KID.

SANTA'S NOT REAL, GOD'S NOT REAL, WHEN MUMMY AND DADDY AND THEN EVENTUALLY YOU DIE YOU'RE ALL JUST GOING TO ROT IN THE GROUND YOU GOT IT YOU LITTLE shiatBIRD
 
2014-01-14 11:48:04 PM  

Tarkus: These same people would have a fit if a Muslim child started talking about the Koran.


Much like other religion-haters, they are curiously quiet when the word Muslim shows up.
 
2014-01-14 11:57:17 PM  

gja: iq_in_binary: OnlyM3: dletter [TotalFark]

Maybe if little Ms. Brainwashed was reading from Genesis instead this wouldn't have been an issue.

Are those of the hebrew faith also brainwashed? Muslims as well. Hindu too?


Yes.

It is really offensive that so many here are so self-righteous and smug in that they feel ANYTHING except atheism is a mental flaw worthy of derision, scorn, hate, vitriol and mocking.
The bigoted bias is getting old, and tiresome. And......
[thedailyshow.mtvnimages.com image 480x360]


If an otherwise completely sane man told you that he had invented a perpetual motion machine you would think him worthy of derision and scorn.  If you expressed your derision and scorn he would probably also conflate derision and scorn with hatred vitriol and mocking (that's just another word for derision by the way).  Why do you think your delusions should be treated with any greater respect than those of another person?  You say something dumb people will treat it as if it is dumb.  Why should religion get a pass?
 
2014-01-14 11:57:35 PM  
img.fark.net
 
2014-01-14 11:59:37 PM  

mongbiohazard: Oh yay, Todd Starnes again. Rest assured if he's writing about it then it's pretty much guaranteed to be weapons grade bullshiat. It always is with that guy.


Also, is it just or does this guy have the most punchable face in journalism?
 
2014-01-15 12:03:25 AM  

untaken_name: Gothnet: I said they were superheroes from another planet.

Good thing you're not teaching her to believe bullshiat impossible stories.


Umm, that wasn't my comment originally.

OTOH I fully support that, it's a good explanation, and puts them in the same light as (for example) spiderman and the hulk. i.e. fiction. Or would you never give a child fiction?
 
2014-01-15 12:06:41 AM  

TommyJReed: MooseUpNorth: FunkOut: Yesterday my 5 year old saw a picture of Shiva and asked who it was. I said he was a Hindu god. She asked me what a god was. I said they were superheroes from another planet. She seemed convinced since he was blue with many arms.

Shame on  you for misinfroming your child. Shiva is a scantily clad ice goddess (or demi-goddess) that you summon in most of the games in the Final Fantasy franchise (except in VIII, where doing so causes you to die of old age waiting for the interminable unskippable summons animations to complete.)

The reason for the VIII summons being unskippable was that you could hold the select button down and then repeatedly tap the square button to boost their damage during the animation


FINALLY someone that understands the fundamentals of the game and not someone that just looks at the 'fun bits'

(Okay, so I did both as a kid)
 
2014-01-15 12:13:50 AM  

Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: nickdaisy: Now be fair Farkers-- don't start blaming Fox News and everyone else who doesn't have multiple piercings and a job that pays by the hour. Fair is fair. This kid can espouse whatever beliefs his little mind can formulate (or more likely regurgitate) as long as he's not interfering with the running of the school. He's not a state institution and the school's not sanctioning his speech.

It's the same darn rule you get to use when they drag out that tired "dude wearing dress gets elected homecoming queen" story each year.  He's expressing his personal opinion. And just like the school can't stop someone from prancing around dressed like a freak, they can't stop someone from yapping about their favorite fairy tale.

Who's with me?

Trolly phrasing aside, I'm with you.

Wear a garbage bag and read the Upanishad or whatever. Long as it ain't official school policy, I don't care.


And when crazed religionists have recruited dozens of kids at each school to stand up and spontaneously start proselytizing in class, that'll be a-ok?
 
2014-01-15 12:30:13 AM  

what_now: A six year old that can recite Bible verses
A law firm called Advocates for Faith and Freedom Fox News Yeah, I'm sure this is an accurate representation of what happened


Safer for the school to tell him to shut the fark up. Safer for him that is, because at my school he would've gotten the shiat kicked out of him, in a small town, in America, by the other kids who were sick of listening. I'm not kidding about that. A bunch of Catholic and Lutheran kids proceeded to beat the shiat out of a kid that wouldn't shut the fark up about God.

/had the good sense to avoid the whole problem, he didn't
 
2014-01-15 12:34:17 AM  
Yeah, that kid's totally not brainwashed or anything...
 
2014-01-15 12:44:33 AM  
Eh, the teacher is actually correct.  The school can't legally give a soapbox to someone that's proselytizing.  I imagine that they don't even have this assignment at higher grade levels for that reason, and only have it at the first-grade level because they didn't imagine that a kid that young could already be so brainwashed they'd memorize a goddamned sermon to spout off when asked how their vacation went.

// On a side note, that's the kind of conversational sabotage crap that will sometimes get your ass kicked as an  adult.  Whether you start reciting the bible or fact sheets about the Pokemon games whenever anyone asks you about anything ever, at the best eventually you're just going to train people never to talk to you ever.
 
2014-01-15 01:22:47 AM  
I can imagine the other six year olds were rolling their eyes, already tired of this kid's shiat.
 
2014-01-15 01:26:41 AM  

DarkParodius: TommyJReed: MooseUpNorth: FunkOut: Yesterday my 5 year old saw a picture of Shiva and asked who it was. I said he was a Hindu god. She asked me what a god was. I said they were superheroes from another planet. She seemed convinced since he was blue with many arms.

Shame on  you for misinfroming your child. Shiva is a scantily clad ice goddess (or demi-goddess) that you summon in most of the games in the Final Fantasy franchise (except in VIII, where doing so causes you to die of old age waiting for the interminable unskippable summons animations to complete.)

The reason for the VIII summons being unskippable was that you could hold the select button down and then repeatedly tap the square button to boost their damage during the animation

FINALLY someone that understands the fundamentals of the game and not someone that just looks at the 'fun bits'

(Okay, so I did both as a kid)


I had fun doing a low level run on that.  Griever was the hardest because he could destroy your spells and reduce your stats.
 
2014-01-15 01:34:40 AM  

Starshines: Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: nickdaisy: Now be fair Farkers-- don't start blaming Fox News and everyone else who doesn't have multiple piercings and a job that pays by the hour. Fair is fair. This kid can espouse whatever beliefs his little mind can formulate (or more likely regurgitate) as long as he's not interfering with the running of the school. He's not a state institution and the school's not sanctioning his speech.

It's the same darn rule you get to use when they drag out that tired "dude wearing dress gets elected homecoming queen" story each year.  He's expressing his personal opinion. And just like the school can't stop someone from prancing around dressed like a freak, they can't stop someone from yapping about their favorite fairy tale.

Who's with me?

Trolly phrasing aside, I'm with you.

Wear a garbage bag and read the Upanishad or whatever. Long as it ain't official school policy, I don't care.

And when crazed religionists have recruited dozens of kids at each school to stand up and spontaneously start proselytizing in class, that'll be a-ok?


Well that's pretty clearly disruptive. But I enjoy a good slippery slope, so what do ya say we get oiled up and go for a tumble?
 
2014-01-15 01:36:23 AM  

iq_in_binary: Piizzadude: iq_in_binary: Maybe if little Ms. Brainwashed was reading from Genesis instead this wouldn't have been an issue

It shouldnt be an issue either way. If that was the assignment, then she should have been allowed to talk as when wanted.

I think it is being blown out of proportion, but I also think that the teacher overreacted.

And how was John 3 16 related to Christmas? I could MAYBE see Easter.

It was proselytizing, plain and simple. Teacher was in the right.


Following 6th grade logic, having been in the girls shoes, I do get it. The star is their tradition, mommy said the star was about jesus....and you can follow the logic through to 3:16.

Apparently the girl was following the assignment, and if the teacher says nothing, we hear nothing of this.
 
2014-01-15 01:47:28 AM  

murderguy: Hm.  The representatives of the government (local, state, federal), which includes teachers and school administrators, cannot mandate that people be subjected to prayer or proselytizing.  At the same time, government officials cannot prevent people from observing their religion, so long as it doesn't interfere with the rights of others.

This is kind of a strange case.  On the one hand, it doesn't seem wrong to allow the little girl to explain what her family does to observe Christmas, but on the other, if the little girl goes into some kind of speech that causes the other students to be involuntarily subjected to proselytizing, what then?

I'm an antitheist, but want religion to disappear through education and self-reflection, not through any government mandate.  I am not at all sure how this sort of issue should be managed.  Normally, I'm annoyed that people don't understand the simple idea that government officials are not allowed to favor any religion or lack thereof, but that individuals may pray or otherwise observe their religion without prejudice, as long as it doesn't affect others.  This, however, does seem to be a fringe case where the principle itself isn't clear.

The preceding assumes that the article accurately describes what happened.


With you - the teacher could face a lawsuit either way she responded, you can't be sure.

Maybe her moral code would have then required her to present the religions of any other children present?  All religions?  What if a Muslim kid ran home crying and a school got bombed?

You can't be sure.
 
2014-01-15 01:48:23 AM  

Gothnet: untaken_name: Gothnet: I said they were superheroes from another planet.

Good thing you're not teaching her to believe bullshiat impossible stories.

Umm, that wasn't my comment originally.

OTOH I fully support that, it's a good explanation, and puts them in the same light as (for example) spiderman and the hulk. i.e. fiction. Or would you never give a child fiction?


No, I wouldn't ever teach my child something that I believed to be false. Fiction is just another word for lying. If my child wants people to lie to him, he can wait until he's 18 and buy his own false words. He won't get any from me. On a side note, though, I met the Hulk. He's real. You really shouldn't put him in the same category with spider-man and shiva. You wouldn't like him when he's angry.
 
2014-01-15 01:50:35 AM  

Jim_Callahan: Eh, the teacher is actually correct.  The school can't legally give a soapbox to someone that's proselytizing.  I imagine that they don't even have this assignment at higher grade levels for that reason, and only have it at the first-grade level because they didn't imagine that a kid that young could already be so brainwashed they'd memorize a goddamned sermon to spout off when asked how their vacation went.

// On a side note, that's the kind of conversational sabotage crap that will sometimes get your ass kicked as an  adult.  Whether you start reciting the bible or fact sheets about the Pokemon games whenever anyone asks you about anything ever, at the best eventually you're just going to train people never to talk to you ever.


Prosthelytizing is actively attempting to convert someone to your religion, political belief, or opinion. What was described in the article was not an attempt to convert anyone to a religion. Not by a long shot.
 
2014-01-15 02:26:54 AM  

BSABSVR: Todd Starnes? I'm going to go ahead and assume that there are some significant facts missing from this version of the story.


Had to look him up. Apparently he's the guy who said last year's Miss America didn't "represent American values," because she's of Indian descent. The guy sounds like a professional troll.
 
2014-01-15 02:36:12 AM  

nickdaisy: Who's with me?


This is only the second thread I've seen you in, and I'm already tired of your schtick.
 
2014-01-15 04:22:08 AM  

whither_apophis: what_now: A six year old that can recite Bible verses
A law firm called Advocates for Faith and Freedom Fox News Yeah, I'm sure this is an accurate representation of what happened

Fox News: Bearing false witness since 1996.


CNN: Bearing false witness since June 1st, 1980
 
2014-01-15 04:56:07 AM  

iq_in_binary: And how was John 3 16 related to Christmas? I could MAYBE see Easter.

It was proselytizing, plain and simple. Teacher was in the right.


Do you know what proselytizing means???

Even at Church on Sunday during a 90 minute service the proselytizing bit lasts for like 3 minutes at the very end of the service.

...Talking about the Bible is not proselytizing
...Quoting the Bible is not proselytizing
...Asking people to convert to another faith IS proselytizing.

Unless this child asked for students to convert their faith, it is NOT proselytizing.
 
2014-01-15 05:17:01 AM  

nickdaisy: Now be fair Farkers-- don't start blaming Fox News and everyone else who doesn't have multiple piercings and a job that pays by the hour. Fair is fair. This kid can espouse whatever beliefs his little mind can formulate (or more likely regurgitate) as long as he's not interfering with the running of the school. He's not a state institution and the school's not sanctioning his speech.

It's the same darn rule you get to use when they drag out that tired "dude wearing dress gets elected homecoming queen" story each year.  He's expressing his personal opinion. And just like the school can't stop someone from prancing around dressed like a freak, they can't stop someone from yapping about their favorite fairy tale.

Who's with me?


Me.  I'm with you.
 
2014-01-15 05:20:26 AM  
Could be that the kid is being used by the parents for some good old-fashioned attention-whoring.

Think about it...kid brings home the homework assignment, parents know that religious stuff is a hot-button in public schools, they *could* have the kid just say "We put a star up on the top of the tree...", but where's the fun in that?  *much better* <rolling eyes> to have the kid then lead into Bible verses and beyond, knowing that the teacher will freak out because the envelope is pushed, thereby allowing the parents to call up the local news outlets and cry 'foul', getting this...their fifteen minutes of fame...especially on Faux News, etc.,

Meanwhile, the kid has no clue as to what's going on.
 
2014-01-15 05:22:07 AM  

iq_in_binary: When the people whose uvulas they've been rather ceremoniously rogering with Jesus' cock bite down a little bit for want of air, they don't then get to claim religious persecution. Religion is fine to practice in the privacy of your own home. The rest of us don't have to put up with it in public, especially where our children are concerned.


Wrong...You DO have to put up with people talking about God in public, just like people of faith have to put up with atheist / agnostics who voice their opinions that God doesn't exist.

That is what freedom of speech is all about...we can't stop you from talking about your complete and total ignorance/stupidity about religion, any more that you can stop us from telling people about the wisdom that comes from faith.
 
2014-01-15 05:31:17 AM  

give me doughnuts: FunkOut: Yesterday my 5 year old saw a picture of Shiva and asked who it was. I said he was a Hindu god. She asked me what a god was. I said they were superheroes from another planet. She seemed convinced since he was blue with many arms.

Approves:


img.fark.net

I became curious about this when I heard it was the basis of the fake sci-fi movie in "Argo."  Is it any good?
 
2014-01-15 06:36:24 AM  

Divinegrace: iq_in_binary: When the people whose uvulas they've been rather ceremoniously rogering with Jesus' cock bite down a little bit for want of air, they don't then get to claim religious persecution. Religion is fine to practice in the privacy of your own home. The rest of us don't have to put up with it in public, especially where our children are concerned.

Wrong...You DO have to put up with people talking about God in public, just like people of faith have to put up with atheist / agnostics who voice their opinions that God doesn't exist.

That is what freedom of speech is all about...we can't stop you from talking about your complete and total ignorance/stupidity about religion, any more that you can stop us from telling people about the wisdom that comes from faith.


I have no ignorance about religion.

You failed to copy/paste the rest of my post.

You're a troll. I don't have an interest in listening to the rest of your ignorance.

If you were honest you would have addressed it.

You're a troll on the same level as TPOC and SkinnyHead. FOAD.
 
2014-01-15 06:40:47 AM  

Divinegrace: iq_in_binary: And how was John 3 16 related to Christmas? I could MAYBE see Easter.

It was proselytizing, plain and simple. Teacher was in the right.

Do you know what proselytizing means???

Even at Church on Sunday during a 90 minute service the proselytizing bit lasts for like 3 minutes at the very end of the service.

...Talking about the Bible is not proselytizing
...Quoting the Bible is not proselytizing
...Asking people to convert to another faith IS proselytizing.

Unless this child asked for students to convert their faith, it is NOT proselytizing.


Jesus himself said that prayer in public IS proselytizing.

Go ahead, ask for the bible quotes. I dare you.
 
2014-01-15 06:44:20 AM  

iq_in_binary: Divinegrace: iq_in_binary: When the people whose uvulas they've been rather ceremoniously rogering with Jesus' cock bite down a little bit for want of air, they don't then get to claim religious persecution. Religion is fine to practice in the privacy of your own home. The rest of us don't have to put up with it in public, especially where our children are concerned.

Wrong...You DO have to put up with people talking about God in public, just like people of faith have to put up with atheist / agnostics who voice their opinions that God doesn't exist.

That is what freedom of speech is all about...we can't stop you from talking about your complete and total ignorance/stupidity about religion, any more that you can stop us from telling people about the wisdom that comes from faith.

I have no ignorance about religion.

You failed to copy/paste the rest of my post.

You're a troll. I don't have an interest in listening to the rest of your ignorance.

If you were honest you would have addressed it.

You're a troll on the same level as TPOC and SkinnyHead. FOAD.


You right I am a troll, and the only troll in the tread. Comments like...

When the people whose uvulas they've been rather ceremoniously rogering with Jesus' cock bite down a little bit for want of air, they don't then get to claim religious persecution

...are not troll like in the SLIGHTEST.

Now go back to your mom's basement and let the grown ups talk in peace.
 
2014-01-15 06:47:09 AM  

Divinegrace: iq_in_binary: Divinegrace: iq_in_binary: When the people whose uvulas they've been rather ceremoniously rogering with Jesus' cock bite down a little bit for want of air, they don't then get to claim religious persecution. Religion is fine to practice in the privacy of your own home. The rest of us don't have to put up with it in public, especially where our children are concerned.

Wrong...You DO have to put up with people talking about God in public, just like people of faith have to put up with atheist / agnostics who voice their opinions that God doesn't exist.

That is what freedom of speech is all about...we can't stop you from talking about your complete and total ignorance/stupidity about religion, any more that you can stop us from telling people about the wisdom that comes from faith.

I have no ignorance about religion.

You failed to copy/paste the rest of my post.

You're a troll. I don't have an interest in listening to the rest of your ignorance.

If you were honest you would have addressed it.

You're a troll on the same level as TPOC and SkinnyHead. FOAD.

You right I am a troll, and the only troll in the tread. Comments like...

When the people whose uvulas they've been rather ceremoniously rogering with Jesus' cock bite down a little bit for want of air, they don't then get to claim religious persecution

...are not troll like in the SLIGHTEST.

Now go back to your mom's basement and let the grown ups talk in peace.


Oh, so what I've posted isn't factual.

Do tell, prove me wrong.

I'll have a field day with you.
 
gja [TotalFark]
2014-01-15 06:48:54 AM  

iq_in_binary: No. Sorry. I'm not intolerant, I'm sick and farking tired of having this stupid shiat thrust into the public discussion and for all the sins of the religious right in this country to be tossed out of memory. It's not just atheists that are affected, it's every non Christian in this country that has to put up with the hazing and repetitive belittling.

Lest you forget, it is an issue that they keep pressing.

First these mental midgets started by lobbying a born again Presbyterian President and congress to introduce religious screed to our National Motto and Pledge of Allegiance in the 50s. Not happy with how ingrained secularism was in our society at the time, they then proceeded over the next decades to scrawl their paraphernalia on our courthouses, schools and public institutions all across the country. They've forced themselves into every aspect of our life from our children's education, our employment, and our legislative processes. They were extremely active in the 80's and 90's, blowing up anything and everything they could from the Olympics to the OKC building.

We're talking about the same kinds of people who when called on the failures of Abstinence Only education had the farking gall to say it failed because it wasn't religious enough. The same dipshiats who have passed laws making it implicitly legal to bully children into suicide in the name of their deity.

When the people whose uvulas they've been rather ceremoniously rogering with Jesus' cock bite down a little bit for want of air, they don't then get to claim religious persecution. Religion is fine to practice in the privacy of your own home. The rest of us don't have to put up with it in public, especially where our children are concerned.


Do you hear yourself? You aren't intolerant, you say, yet you rail on and on.

The 50's are done, move on, those days are passed. Let it go. A lot of what you are pissed at is getting slowly fixed.

"They were extremely active in the 80's and 90's, blowing up anything and everything they could from the Olympics to the OKC building."
Have you lost your farking mind? You DO realize no good christian would consider murder acceptable? Now you sound screwy.

BTW, 'abstinence only' is a catholic thing. Not all christians buy that. I was catholic, now recovering. Never bought that crap.
Like the pope, nice guy. Still don't accept his authority over anything or anyone who willingly follows. I have bosses, he's not one of them.
Lot's of catholics left the church. Things ARE changing.

"The same dipshiats who have passed laws making it implicitly legal to bully children into suicide in the name of their deity."
[Citation is a must here] Nonsense, again. List them or stop getting so red-faced angry.
 
2014-01-15 06:51:53 AM  

iq_in_binary: Jesus himself said that prayer in public IS proselytizing.

Go ahead, ask for the bible quotes. I dare you.


and the girl in the article was trying to lead the class in prayer...oh wait, no she wasn't.

Also, It is NEVER wrong to pray to God for the sake of praying to God (in public, in private, during the day, at night, etc)....what IS WRONG is when you pray to God for the sake of 'showing off' to other people.
 
2014-01-15 06:52:20 AM  

Piizzadude: iq_in_binary: Piizzadude: iq_in_binary: Maybe if little Ms. Brainwashed was reading from Genesis instead this wouldn't have been an issue

It shouldnt be an issue either way. If that was the assignment, then she should have been allowed to talk as when wanted.

I think it is being blown out of proportion, but I also think that the teacher overreacted.

And how was John 3 16 related to Christmas? I could MAYBE see Easter.

It was proselytizing, plain and simple. Teacher was in the right.

Following 6th grade logic, having been in the girls shoes, I do get it. The star is their tradition, mommy said the star was about jesus....and you can follow the logic through to 3:16.

Apparently the girl was following the assignment, and if the teacher says nothing, we hear nothing of this.


Teacher was right to say something. Proselytizing is not an acceptable activity in public school. Parent's should have been good citizens and sent their kids to a religious private school if they wanted the privilege. Too poor? FOAD.
 
2014-01-15 06:54:28 AM  
Had to read that twice. I thought it said Bieber the first time
 
gja [TotalFark]
2014-01-15 06:54:52 AM  

Egoy3k: gja: iq_in_binary: OnlyM3: dletter [TotalFark]

Maybe if little Ms. Brainwashed was reading from Genesis instead this wouldn't have been an issue.

Are those of the hebrew faith also brainwashed? Muslims as well. Hindu too?

Yes.

It is really offensive that so many here are so self-righteous and smug in that they feel ANYTHING except atheism is a mental flaw worthy of derision, scorn, hate, vitriol and mocking.
The bigoted bias is getting old, and tiresome. And......
[thedailyshow.mtvnimages.com image 480x360]

If an otherwise completely sane man told you that he had invented a perpetual motion machine you would think him worthy of derision and scorn.  If you expressed your derision and scorn he would probably also conflate derision and scorn with hatred vitriol and mocking (that's just another word for derision by the way).  Why do you think your delusions should be treated with any greater respect than those of another person?  You say something dumb people will treat it as if it is dumb.  Why should religion get a pass?


Good for you! You have decided any religious belief is dumb without qualifying or quantifying what and how those people keep to it.

Is it suffocating in such a closed mind?

False physics is not equal to religion. Not always. Without knowing the person and what they hold as beliefs you are yourself dumb since you use such a blindly broad brush to paint them.
 
2014-01-15 07:05:46 AM  

gja: iq_in_binary: No. Sorry. I'm not intolerant, I'm sick and farking tired of having this stupid shiat thrust into the public discussion and for all the sins of the religious right in this country to be tossed out of memory. It's not just atheists that are affected, it's every non Christian in this country that has to put up with the hazing and repetitive belittling.

Lest you forget, it is an issue that they keep pressing.

First these mental midgets started by lobbying a born again Presbyterian President and congress to introduce religious screed to our National Motto and Pledge of Allegiance in the 50s. Not happy with how ingrained secularism was in our society at the time, they then proceeded over the next decades to scrawl their paraphernalia on our courthouses, schools and public institutions all across the country. They've forced themselves into every aspect of our life from our children's education, our employment, and our legislative processes. They were extremely active in the 80's and 90's, blowing up anything and everything they could from the Olympics to the OKC building.

We're talking about the same kinds of people who when called on the failures of Abstinence Only education had the farking gall to say it failed because it wasn't religious enough. The same dipshiats who have passed laws making it implicitly legal to bully children into suicide in the name of their deity.

When the people whose uvulas they've been rather ceremoniously rogering with Jesus' cock bite down a little bit for want of air, they don't then get to claim religious persecution. Religion is fine to practice in the privacy of your own home. The rest of us don't have to put up with it in public, especially where our children are concerned.

Do you hear yourself? You aren't intolerant, you say, yet you rail on and on.

The 50's are done, move on, those days are passed. Let it go. A lot of what you are pissed at is getting slowly fixed.

"They were extremely active in the 80's and 90's, ...


Were minorities intolerant during the civil rights movement?

I'd love to hear your explanation for that.

WI and MI, btw. I'm not your research assistant. If you aren't willing to keep track of your own cult, don't expect me to go through the effort of doing it for you. A month of TF will absolve you of all that, you'll have at least paid me for my time to do your own damn IA investigation for you. As much of a pittance it may have been. And at $5, I'm working pretty farking cheap.

Until then, don't expect to be taken seriously. And you don't even deserve the normal right of being given the benefit of the doubt.

Being ignorant is something you pay others to do, I don't have any inherent interest in bucking the trend. Taking a lesson from the Koch brothers is only the smart thing to do given precedent.
 
2014-01-15 07:18:09 AM  

Divinegrace: iq_in_binary: Jesus himself said that prayer in public IS proselytizing.

Go ahead, ask for the bible quotes. I dare you.

and the girl in the article was trying to lead the class in prayer...oh wait, no she wasn't.

Also, It is NEVER wrong to pray to God for the sake of praying to God (in public, in private, during the day, at night, etc)....what IS WRONG is when you pray to God for the sake of 'showing off' to other people.


Which Jesus himself called proselytizing. Follow your own book, fool. You pray in the privacy of your own home.

I was raised Christian. Unless you're regularly volunteering at local soup kitchens, don't even bother.
 
2014-01-15 07:26:03 AM  

iq_in_binary: Divinegrace: iq_in_binary: Jesus himself said that prayer in public IS proselytizing.

Go ahead, ask for the bible quotes. I dare you.

and the girl in the article was trying to lead the class in prayer...oh wait, no she wasn't.

Also, It is NEVER wrong to pray to God for the sake of praying to God (in public, in private, during the day, at night, etc)....what IS WRONG is when you pray to God for the sake of 'showing off' to other people.

Which Jesus himself called proselytizing. Follow your own book, fool. You pray in the privacy of your own home.

I was raised Christian. Unless you're regularly volunteering at local soup kitchens, don't even bother.


You may have been raised in a Christian household, but that doesn't mean YOU are a Christian or that you were 'raised Christian'. Regardless of your parents faith and regardless of your upbringing it is clear that your seed of faith was not planted in fertile soil.
 
2014-01-15 07:33:10 AM  

Divinegrace: iq_in_binary: Divinegrace: iq_in_binary: Jesus himself said that prayer in public IS proselytizing.

Go ahead, ask for the bible quotes. I dare you.

and the girl in the article was trying to lead the class in prayer...oh wait, no she wasn't.

Also, It is NEVER wrong to pray to God for the sake of praying to God (in public, in private, during the day, at night, etc)....what IS WRONG is when you pray to God for the sake of 'showing off' to other people.

Which Jesus himself called proselytizing. Follow your own book, fool. You pray in the privacy of your own home.

I was raised Christian. Unless you're regularly volunteering at local soup kitchens, don't even bother.

You may have been raised in a Christian household, but that doesn't mean YOU are a Christian or that you were 'raised Christian'. Regardless of your parents faith and regardless of your upbringing it is clear that your seed of faith was not planted in fertile soil.


You're right. I'm Atheist. But I was raised by Christians. Actual Christians. The type that gave a shiat about the poor and wanted to help people regardless of their religion or sexual orientation. At least initially. My fall from faith was due to people like you. And my fall from faith did nothing to change my sincere faith in Christ. He's my favorite character in the book.

You people shiatting on his name really doesn't help. You should quit it if you have any serious intent on making John's intent a reality. Otherwise, you're not really Christian. Congrats on spreading the pagan faith.
 
2014-01-15 07:42:27 AM  

iq_in_binary: Divinegrace: iq_in_binary: Divinegrace: iq_in_binary: Jesus himself said that prayer in public IS proselytizing.

Go ahead, ask for the bible quotes. I dare you.

and the girl in the article was trying to lead the class in prayer...oh wait, no she wasn't.

Also, It is NEVER wrong to pray to God for the sake of praying to God (in public, in private, during the day, at night, etc)....what IS WRONG is when you pray to God for the sake of 'showing off' to other people.

Which Jesus himself called proselytizing. Follow your own book, fool. You pray in the privacy of your own home.

I was raised Christian. Unless you're regularly volunteering at local soup kitchens, don't even bother.

You may have been raised in a Christian household, but that doesn't mean YOU are a Christian or that you were 'raised Christian'. Regardless of your parents faith and regardless of your upbringing it is clear that your seed of faith was not planted in fertile soil.

You're right. I'm Atheist. But I was raised by Christians. Actual Christians. The type that gave a shiat about the poor and wanted to help people regardless of their religion or sexual orientation. At least initially. My fall from faith was due to people like you. And my fall from faith did nothing to change my sincere faith in Christ. He's my favorite character in the book.

You people shiatting on his name really doesn't help. You should quit it if you have any serious intent on making John's intent a reality. Otherwise, you're not really Christian. Congrats on spreading the pagan faith.


"You people" ('Us people', 'me') shiatting on his name isn't helping??? but the crap you spew is helping??? RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT. /wink
 
2014-01-15 07:54:13 AM  

Divinegrace: iq_in_binary: Divinegrace: iq_in_binary: Divinegrace: iq_in_binary: Jesus himself said that prayer in public IS proselytizing.

Go ahead, ask for the bible quotes. I dare you.

and the girl in the article was trying to lead the class in prayer...oh wait, no she wasn't.

Also, It is NEVER wrong to pray to God for the sake of praying to God (in public, in private, during the day, at night, etc)....what IS WRONG is when you pray to God for the sake of 'showing off' to other people.

Which Jesus himself called proselytizing. Follow your own book, fool. You pray in the privacy of your own home.

I was raised Christian. Unless you're regularly volunteering at local soup kitchens, don't even bother.

You may have been raised in a Christian household, but that doesn't mean YOU are a Christian or that you were 'raised Christian'. Regardless of your parents faith and regardless of your upbringing it is clear that your seed of faith was not planted in fertile soil.

You're right. I'm Atheist. But I was raised by Christians. Actual Christians. The type that gave a shiat about the poor and wanted to help people regardless of their religion or sexual orientation. At least initially. My fall from faith was due to people like you. And my fall from faith did nothing to change my sincere faith in Christ. He's my favorite character in the book.

You people shiatting on his name really doesn't help. You should quit it if you have any serious intent on making John's intent a reality. Otherwise, you're not really Christian. Congrats on spreading the pagan faith.

"You people" ('Us people', 'me') shiatting on his name isn't helping??? but the crap you spew is helping??? RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT. /wink


Welcome to the realm of self fulfilling prophecies. You keep denying it. And you enforce it at every step by doing so.

Go fark yourself, your hatred and intolerance at every step is going to be the downfall of the movement in general. Enjoy being the very reason everything you fight against comes true.

Hell, I'm saving this little conversation just to savor the butt hurt when it becomes nationwide in about 4 months.

Yeah 4 months. Put that on the list of fark predictions. The one's you're wrong about. Or do you want to argue about miscegenation laws too?
 
2014-01-15 08:01:03 AM  

iq_in_binary: Divinegrace: iq_in_binary: Divinegrace: iq_in_binary: Divinegrace: iq_in_binary: Jesus himself said that prayer in public IS proselytizing.

Go ahead, ask for the bible quotes. I dare you.

and the girl in the article was trying to lead the class in prayer...oh wait, no she wasn't.

Also, It is NEVER wrong to pray to God for the sake of praying to God (in public, in private, during the day, at night, etc)....what IS WRONG is when you pray to God for the sake of 'showing off' to other people.

Which Jesus himself called proselytizing. Follow your own book, fool. You pray in the privacy of your own home.

I was raised Christian. Unless you're regularly volunteering at local soup kitchens, don't even bother.

You may have been raised in a Christian household, but that doesn't mean YOU are a Christian or that you were 'raised Christian'. Regardless of your parents faith and regardless of your upbringing it is clear that your seed of faith was not planted in fertile soil.

You're right. I'm Atheist. But I was raised by Christians. Actual Christians. The type that gave a shiat about the poor and wanted to help people regardless of their religion or sexual orientation. At least initially. My fall from faith was due to people like you. And my fall from faith did nothing to change my sincere faith in Christ. He's my favorite character in the book.

You people shiatting on his name really doesn't help. You should quit it if you have any serious intent on making John's intent a reality. Otherwise, you're not really Christian. Congrats on spreading the pagan faith.

"You people" ('Us people', 'me') shiatting on his name isn't helping??? but the crap you spew is helping??? RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT. /wink

Welcome to the realm of self fulfilling prophecies. You keep denying it. And you enforce it at every step by doing so.

Go fark yourself, your hatred and intolerance at every step is going to be the downfall of the movement in general. Enjoy being the very reason everything ...


My hatred??? The only 'hate' I had left died with my step-father and his mother over a decade ago. There are many things that I don't agree with, and a few things I really don't like, but hate...That's your bag, not mine.
 
2014-01-15 08:03:14 AM  
IANAL. What makes this kid's talk problematic isn't 'bible verses' in itself*, but rather 'captive audience'. The other students in the class may not be required to listen to proselytizing. It doesn't matter if it's a teacher, a 3rd party, or a student doing it.

/  (*Not even Lemon restricted students all that much and the standard, now, is 'neutrality'.)
 
2014-01-15 08:07:15 AM  

gja: iq_in_binary: OnlyM3: dletter [TotalFark]

Maybe if little Ms. Brainwashed was reading from Genesis instead this wouldn't have been an issue.

Are those of the hebrew faith also brainwashed? Muslims as well. Hindu too?

It is really offensive that so many here are so self-righteous and smug in that they feel ANYTHING except atheism is a mental flaw worthy of derision, scorn, hate, vitriol and mocking.
The bigoted bias is getting old, and tiresome. And......
[thedailyshow.mtvnimages.com image 480x360]


Yes, brainwashed. All religious people are stupid and brainwashed. Including YOU.
 
2014-01-15 08:14:12 AM  

OnlyM3: dletter [TotalFark]


Was there other Jewish, Muslim, etc kids that were allowed to talk for a minute about their religion in class?

If so, then, there is a point to me made here..... either she should have gotten "equal time", or those kids shouldn't have been able to ramble on either. Bigot, illiterate, or both?

FTFA (written at 4th-6th grade reading level )
the teacher instructed boys and girls to find something at home that represented a family Christmas tradition. They were supposed to bring the item to school and share the item in a classroom presentation.
Yes every crotch-fruit was able to give their own presentation.

/// fark supported CA forcing children to take islamic names and partake in Jihad games. The bigotry around here is amusing.


Skimmed the article (like 50% of the people who post on Fark, so?)....

In that case though, it was possibly a biased "assignment" to begin with... if you don't celebrate Christmas, you don't have a "Christmas Tradition" then.... although, article writers are notoriously lazy... the assignment might have been to represent a "holiday tradition".   But, if it was just Christmas, it was a little bit out of line anyway, and certainly then you can't complain about a kid talking Bible verses if the assignment was "Your Christmas traditions".

I will say the teacher sounds like they were a bit harsh.... a 1st grader isn't really aware of the difference between "educating" and "Proselytizing".... talking about the Bible and Christianity in school isn't necessarily wrong if it is done from a "this is what some people believe" standpoint vs "teaching the bible" as fact.    IMO, what she said wasn't over the line, and we'll never know what the rest of it would have been, outside of reciting John 3:16.   But, as I said, a 6 year old kid isn't going to have the nuance to make it "educational" vs. "proselytizing".
 
2014-01-15 08:20:51 AM  

Combustion: gja: iq_in_binary: OnlyM3: dletter [TotalFark]

Maybe if little Ms. Brainwashed was reading from Genesis instead this wouldn't have been an issue.

Are those of the hebrew faith also brainwashed? Muslims as well. Hindu too?

It is really offensive that so many here are so self-righteous and smug in that they feel ANYTHING except atheism is a mental flaw worthy of derision, scorn, hate, vitriol and mocking.
The bigoted bias is getting old, and tiresome. And......
[thedailyshow.mtvnimages.com image 480x360]

Yes, brainwashed. All religious people are stupid and brainwashed. Including YOU

B

ahahahahahahaha

You're that stupid.

I know more about your own religion than you could even hope to forget. Whether you be Catholic, Christian, Presbyterian, etc.

Your own damn holy book was collated by a committee in order to ease conversion. By pagans, no less.

Do not try to speak down to me on matters of faith.
 
2014-01-15 08:24:24 AM  

gja: Good for you! You have decided any religious belief is dumb without qualifying or quantifying what and how those people keep to it.


This is correct. I don't believe that magic is real.  I have seen no evidence whatsoever of magic being real and blind belief without evidence is pretty damn dumb.

Is it suffocating in such a closed mind?

Nope.

False physics is not equal to religion. Not always.

Actually it's pretty much exactly the same. All magical claims made by theists are false physics.


Without knowing the person and what they hold as beliefs you are yourself dumb since you use such a blindly broad brush to paint them.

I don't care why someone believes in things that they have zero evidence to support. Also I never called theists dumb, just their beliefs.
 
2014-01-15 08:26:11 AM  
This is only right as school is for learning about real things.
 
2014-01-15 08:30:38 AM  
Also, keep your religion out of state funded areas.

All of the areas. The court, the school, everywhere.

All your religions too, although it`s mainly the Christians that really push theirs onto other people in those state funded areas.
 
2014-01-15 08:32:28 AM  

Egoy3k: I don't care why someone believes in things that they have zero evidence to support. Also I never called theists dumb, just their beliefs.


Stupid is as stupid does. I prefer to call people who believe things for which there is no proof `delusional`.

You can be smart and deluded, like some of the religious
 
2014-01-15 09:00:08 AM  

iq_in_binary: Go fark yourself, your hatred and intolerance


This is what cognitive dissonance looks like.
 
2014-01-15 09:16:14 AM  
let the kid read her fairy tale. what's it going to do? make fewer kids believe in santa? make some atheist kids go home and ask "who is god?" and give their parents a chance to explain how people make up magical men in the sky so they don't have to think about how the entirety of human existence has played out on the surface of a tiny ball of rock hurtling through the howling vacuum of space, circling a huge nuclear reaction which will one day reach out and scorch this planet to a cinder.
 
gja [TotalFark]
2014-01-15 09:28:48 AM  

iq_in_binary: Were minorities intolerant during the civil rights movement?

I'd love to hear your explanation for that.

WI and MI, btw. I'm not your research assistant. If you aren't willing to keep track of your own cult, don't expect me to go through the effort of doing it for you. A month of TF will absolve you of all that, you'll have at least paid me for my time to do your own damn IA investigation for you. As much of a pittance it may have been. And at $5, I'm working pretty farking cheap.

Until then, don't expect to be taken seriously. And you don't even deserve the normal right of being given the benefit of the doubt.

Being ignorant is something you pay others to do, I don't have any inherent interest in bucking the trend. Taking a lesson from the Koch brothers is only the smart thing to do given precedent.


LOL. You think atheists faced the same iniquities as minorities? You are truly out there.

Good day. Welcome to the tag :::nonsense::::.
 
2014-01-15 09:34:58 AM  
It's only persecution if you're talking about racism or homosexuality
 
2014-01-15 09:45:58 AM  
My first grade daughter says a blessing at the lunch table before she eats at school. By the end of the week, all the kids around her were doing it, and now the whole class does it. Nobody is making them.
 
2014-01-15 09:47:44 AM  
i48.tinypic.com
 
2014-01-15 09:54:12 AM  

iq_in_binary: Divinegrace: iq_in_binary: And how was John 3 16 related to Christmas? I could MAYBE see Easter.

It was proselytizing, plain and simple. Teacher was in the right.

Do you know what proselytizing means???

Even at Church on Sunday during a 90 minute service the proselytizing bit lasts for like 3 minutes at the very end of the service.

...Talking about the Bible is not proselytizing
...Quoting the Bible is not proselytizing
...Asking people to convert to another faith IS proselytizing.

Unless this child asked for students to convert their faith, it is NOT proselytizing.

Jesus himself said that prayer in public IS proselytizing.

Go ahead, ask for the bible quotes. I dare you.


Or it's just showing off/can't be heard as well when you're shouting it in a crowd.

On another note. I wonder how many realize that prayer is sending thoughts addressed to God, and therefore bowing your head and closing your eyes in a restaurant works exactly the same as sitting there with eyes wide open and taking few seconds before the first bite.
 
2014-01-15 09:57:09 AM  

Kangaroo_Ralph: My first grade daughter says a blessing at the lunch table before she eats at school. By the end of the week, all the kids around her were doing it, and now the whole class does it. Nobody is making them.


young children are impressionable. this is a good example as to why shoving religion - any religion - down their throats in a public setting is a bad thing.
 
2014-01-15 09:57:09 AM  

iq_in_binary: Divinegrace: iq_in_binary: Jesus himself said that prayer in public IS proselytizing.

Go ahead, ask for the bible quotes. I dare you.

and the girl in the article was trying to lead the class in prayer...oh wait, no she wasn't.

Also, It is NEVER wrong to pray to God for the sake of praying to God (in public, in private, during the day, at night, etc)....what IS WRONG is when you pray to God for the sake of 'showing off' to other people.

Which Jesus himself called proselytizing. Follow your own book, fool. You pray in the privacy of your own home.

I was raised Christian. Unless you're regularly volunteering at local soup kitchens, don't even bother.


Praying unceasing is in there too.  Which one's more accurate.
 
2014-01-15 09:59:41 AM  

untaken_name: How in the blue blazes can you talk about Christmas without bringing up the Bible? Christ Mass - yeah, nothing Bible-related about that...


Easy. You talk about the pagan traditions that Christians co-opted to try to make their beliefs more popular.
 
2014-01-15 10:01:59 AM  

cwolf20: iq_in_binary: Divinegrace: iq_in_binary: And how was John 3 16 related to Christmas? I could MAYBE see Easter.

It was proselytizing, plain and simple. Teacher was in the right.

Do you know what proselytizing means???

Even at Church on Sunday during a 90 minute service the proselytizing bit lasts for like 3 minutes at the very end of the service.

...Talking about the Bible is not proselytizing
...Quoting the Bible is not proselytizing
...Asking people to convert to another faith IS proselytizing.

Unless this child asked for students to convert their faith, it is NOT proselytizing.

Jesus himself said that prayer in public IS proselytizing.

Go ahead, ask for the bible quotes. I dare you.

Or it's just showing off/can't be heard as well when you're shouting it in a crowd.

On another note. I wonder how many realize that prayer is sending thoughts addressed to God, and therefore bowing your head and closing your eyes in a restaurant works exactly the same as sitting there with eyes wide open and taking few seconds before the first bite.


Agreed.  Many of these are the same people that insist that you gather in a public place when God is supposedly just as in the living room with you as you watch the game as he is when you skip the game and go listen to someone telling you how/what to think.
 
2014-01-15 10:02:23 AM  

fusillade762: BSABSVR: Todd Starnes? I'm going to go ahead and assume that there are some significant facts missing from this version of the story.

Had to look him up. Apparently he's the guy who said last year's Miss America didn't "represent American values," because she's of Indian descent. The guy sounds like a professional troll.


Winnah winnah chikin dinnah.
 
2014-01-15 10:06:25 AM  
*sigh* When you don't pay teachers enough this is what you get. Stupid teacher, as an employee of the school district you, the teacher, can't talk about religion (any of them), can't encourage children to talk about religion (any of them), and certainly can't lead prayer. A child can pray in school, can talk about their traditions, and can preach their religion as an individual.

As an atheist, sometimes I wonder how in the fark we evolved to be tool using, pattern recognizing, enlightened apes.
 
2014-01-15 10:08:02 AM  

grumpfuff: untaken_name: How in the blue blazes can you talk about Christmas without bringing up the Bible? Christ Mass - yeah, nothing Bible-related about that...

Easy. You talk about the pagan traditions that Christians co-opted to try to make their beliefs more popular.


So you can talk about Christian beliefs as long as you don't mention the Bible? And yeah, Christians are pagans, but pagans are religious too. Is the prohibition against religious proselytizing or just Christian proselytizing?
 
2014-01-15 10:20:26 AM  

untaken_name: grumpfuff: untaken_name: How in the blue blazes can you talk about Christmas without bringing up the Bible? Christ Mass - yeah, nothing Bible-related about that...

Easy. You talk about the pagan traditions that Christians co-opted to try to make their beliefs more popular.

So you can talk about Christian beliefs as long as you don't mention the Bible? And yeah, Christians are pagans, but pagans are religious too. Is the prohibition against religious proselytizing or just Christian proselytizing?



I merely answered your question. I said nothing about what you can and cannot prohibit. And no, Christians are not pagans.
 
2014-01-15 10:28:04 AM  

grumpfuff: untaken_name: grumpfuff: untaken_name: How in the blue blazes can you talk about Christmas without bringing up the Bible? Christ Mass - yeah, nothing Bible-related about that...

Easy. You talk about the pagan traditions that Christians co-opted to try to make their beliefs more popular.

So you can talk about Christian beliefs as long as you don't mention the Bible? And yeah, Christians are pagans, but pagans are religious too. Is the prohibition against religious proselytizing or just Christian proselytizing?


I merely answered your question. I said nothing about what you can and cannot prohibit. And no, Christians are not pagans.


Even I can see you're not saying that.  Co-opt isn't the same as becoming.
 
2014-01-15 10:38:42 AM  

untaken_name: Is the prohibition against religious proselytizing or just Christian proselytizing?


ALL proselytizing. i don't want a bunch of smelly druids talking to my kids about the moon and trees, goddamnit!
 
2014-01-15 10:41:54 AM  
What? Since when do schools tell kids they can't play make-believe?
 
2014-01-15 10:48:13 AM  
media.chick.com
media.chick.com

Suprised the teacher didn't have the kid jailed for saying 'bible'
 
2014-01-15 10:52:53 AM  

MythDragon: [media.chick.com image 468x240]
[media.chick.com image 468x240]

Suprised the teacher didn't have the kid jailed for saying 'bible'


is that a chick tract?

btw, i really do find it highly amusing that the WORLD'S LARGEST RELIGION believes that it's persecuted by atheists.
 
2014-01-15 11:02:05 AM  
Not much longer until it is a felony to own a bible, or say any words from it.

The govt is scared poopless about that book

and the Author

MLK Jr. RIP
 
2014-01-15 11:12:34 AM  
Atheist Farkers: The kind of people that stand a few feet away from the Mall Santa and whisper "There is no Santa Claus. That guy is just a pedophile" to the kids as they get off of Santa's lap.
 
2014-01-15 11:12:53 AM  

FlashHarry: MythDragon: [media.chick.com image 468x240]
[media.chick.com image 468x240]

Suprised the teacher didn't have the kid jailed for saying 'bible'

is that a chick tract?

btw, i really do find it highly amusing that the WORLD'S LARGEST RELIGION believes that it's persecuted by atheists.


it IS a chick tract.
They have them all on Chick.com, even the out of print ones.

My two most favorites
The Death Cookie
The Last Generation

They should make some of these into movies. They would be pure awesome.
 
2014-01-15 11:16:31 AM  

Lee451: Atheist Farkers: The kind of people that stand a few feet away from the Mall Santa and whisper "There is no Santa Claus. That guy is just a pedophile" to the kids as they get off of Santa's lap.


Oh please. That's what Christian farkers do. Atheists and Christians high five each other while giving Santa a hip flask so he can be dragged screaming by police.
 
2014-01-15 11:17:48 AM  

give me doughnuts: FunkOut: Yesterday my 5 year old saw a picture of Shiva and asked who it was. I said he was a Hindu god. She asked me what a god was. I said they were superheroes from another planet. She seemed convinced since he was blue with many arms.

Approves:
[litreactor.com image 315x475]


ZELAZNY ftw, good going
 
2014-01-15 11:18:13 AM  

cwolf20: Lee451: Atheist Farkers: The kind of people that stand a few feet away from the Mall Santa and whisper "There is no Santa Claus. That guy is just a pedophile" to the kids as they get off of Santa's lap.

Oh please. That's what Christian farkers do. Atheists and Christians high five each other while giving Santa a hip flask so he can be dragged screaming by police.


Speaking of.  Next Christmas I need to find an atheist to join me in proving that Atheists and Christians do that.
 
2014-01-15 11:54:22 AM  

Sgt Otter: give me doughnuts: FunkOut: Yesterday my 5 year old saw a picture of Shiva and asked who it was. I said he was a Hindu god. She asked me what a god was. I said they were superheroes from another planet. She seemed convinced since he was blue with many arms.

Approves:

[img.fark.net image 315x475]

I became curious about this when I heard it was the basis of the fake sci-fi movie in "Argo."  Is it any good?


Yeah, I mentioned it upthread. Pretty good book IMHO.
 
2014-01-15 07:44:20 PM  
I can't tell if there's more BS in the article or in this thread. Assuming the events happened as reported the first amendment was violated. That's not the end of the world, but educate the teacher and principal and move on. I've been getting a kick out of all of the childrearing advice given here but only the adviser's perspective on religion is correct.
 
2014-01-15 08:52:15 PM  

MythDragon: [media.chick.com image 468x240]
[media.chick.com image 468x240]

Suprised the teacher didn't have the kid jailed for saying 'bible'



Surprised the other kids haven't gotten sick of the little bastich and beaten the shiat out of them. I was a good Catholic boy, one of many, with a lot of Lutheran kids in school too. One little religious f*cker wouldn't shut up about God. He got the shiat kicked out of him by everyone until he learned to shut up. Even the Jehovah's Witness knew to STFU about God. A farking Jehovah's Witness kid.

We were all sick of the God shiat by the time we escaped religious primary school.

You want to make a generation of little atheists, stick kids in a religious school.
 
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