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(MLive.com)   Proponents of Michigan's new open-carry gun law say they're loving their new sense of freedom, and they just wish the cops would remember that open carry is now legal and not to stage high-risk takedowns every time there's a gun call   (mlive.com) divider line 509
    More: Followup, Grand Rapids Press, gun laws  
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2060 clicks; posted to Politics » on 14 Jan 2014 at 3:42 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-14 04:11:37 PM  

FlashHarry: Open carry is great for police officers and trained professionals. Open carry is bad for Johnny Wantstobeahero.

this is the best explanation i have yet heard. thanks.


except the part about the constant stream of stories about police shooting bystanders and unarmed "threats", sure.
 
2014-01-14 04:12:21 PM  

meat0918: FlashHarry: what is the point of open carry? is it to show off? is it to make a political point? or is it just to warn other people that you're an asshole?

It's to make yourself a priority target for anyone carrying concealed illegally.

Really it's to show off mostly.


I don't know what they're showing off, exactly.  Is it like the douchebags who have their cellphones clipped to their belt?

"Look at me and the cool things I can hang from my pants!  I'm special!"
 
2014-01-14 04:12:30 PM  
The 2nd Amendment is a Pandora's Box that can't be closed. Guns will be out there and will be relatively easily to acquire whether legally or illegally. It doesn't matter what kind of gun control legislation we try to push through, nothing is going to have any affect on an individual's ability to grab a firearm and use it to commit a crime.

Open Carry is either a way to warn people nearby that you're an asshole, or you aren't a potential victim. Not just for a crime, but for any kind of harassment at all. People may be less interested in asking you for money, asking you to buy this or buy that. Asking you to do this favor or that favor for them. If they see a gun on you, you're less likely to be bothered by other assholes.

The problem with Open Carry is the police can still find ways to nail you. You can get charged for 'inciting panic' by openly carrying a firearm on you or they'll just harass you and tell you that you should get whatever it is you're doing done and then go home (politely of course). But the message is pretty clear that people around don't like you carrying a pistol around and they want you to leave.

If you live alone and have no family or friends, whether you're female or male -- you can sometimes feel as if you are just a target for the rest of the world. Maybe you feel like you give off a sense of weakness that others are attracted to. People will try to solicit you products or services on the street, to get you to do this or do that.

If you're all alone in the world, sometimes the only way to drive the point home to the rest of the people around you is that even if you're only one person and you give off a sense of weakness, you do have a tool that can inflict lethal force if you are given reason to use it. And if you want to simply be left alone, open carry is a good way to do it. Whether people think you have a small dick, are a Teatard, have insecurity issues (and maybe you do), or just want to be an asshole -- what does it matter? The idea is to get people to simply leave you alone, so who cares what they think.
 
2014-01-14 04:13:17 PM  

Jackson Herring: EdNortonsTwin: because it's funny to watch people wet themselves when they see a safely holstered pistol.

one of the saddest things i've ever read on the internet


But that's actually what they think. Panty waisted liebruls tremble in fear at the mere sight of a firearm.
 
2014-01-14 04:13:25 PM  

FlashHarry: what is the point of open carry? is it to show off? is it to make a political point? or is it just to warn other people that you're an asshole?


Yes.
 
2014-01-14 04:13:31 PM  

mr intrepid: That's always been my question; how do we differentiate between the hood going to knock over the quicky-mart, and Mr responsible gun owner? Until it's too late?


Mr "going to knock over the quickymart" is not going to open cary so anyone that is not wearing a gun should be a suspect.
 
2014-01-14 04:14:36 PM  

mr intrepid: That's always been my question; how do we differentiate between the hood going to knock over the quicky-mart, and Mr responsible gun owner? Until it's too late?


I have been told in these threads you can "tell" if someone is being aggressive.

Which then I ask is it ok to shoot people who have their guns out (which they don't think you can) and if they already have their gun out and aimed at you isn't it too late for you to pull out your gun? - Where I am explained that somehow good guys are faster than bad guys and can pull out their gun and fire.

(then I am normally just called names and told I have no idea what I am talking about, though the never can explain it themselves)

I find it interesting the same people who seem to be against heavy "handed police tactics" don't have a problem with a any US citizen to be able to play judge, jury and executioner.
 
2014-01-14 04:15:42 PM  

MFAWG: FlashHarry: what is the point of open carry? is it to show off? is it to make a political point? or is it just to warn other people that you're an asshole?

It's so that you'll know to not disrespect the carrier.


If you can't take some insults without pulling out your piece, you deserve the disrespect.
 
2014-01-14 04:16:00 PM  

Headso: Satanic_Hamster: ikanreed: JerseyTim: 99% percent of open carriers look like tools, but it's still better than concealed carry. Concealed carry is like, "ok, if shiat goes down, I can be the hero." At least open is carry is, "Hopefully shiat won't go down if they see my piece."

And the sad thing is, the difference should be completely irrelevant to us gun control advocates.  The not-entirely-justified assumption of them not shooting people for no reason belies both activities.  Whether you see it or not, it can still be used to kill someone without a thought.

To add on; there's also a big difference between open carry of a pistol and of a rifle/shotgun.  If I see someone walking with a holstered pistol/revolver, I'm not paying him much mind.  I see a guy walking through the grocery store parking lot with a long gun, I'm calling the police.

I'm in a rural area so when I see a guy walking through a parking lot with a rifle I'm like oh it's hunting season.


I see that all the time too. These people aren't the ones that worry me. It's the moron who's trying to make a political statement by carrying his AR-15 into the Starbucks just BEGGING for someone to say something so he can go off.
 
2014-01-14 04:16:33 PM  
I LIKES TAH WAVE MY .357 AROUN' AN POINT AT THE LITTLE KIDS CUZ FLAGS CRYING EAGLES AND JAY-ZUSS!!!
 
2014-01-14 04:17:05 PM  

Saiga410: mr intrepid: That's always been my question; how do we differentiate between the hood going to knock over the quicky-mart, and Mr responsible gun owner? Until it's too late?

Mr "going to knock over the quickymart" is not going to open cary so anyone that is not wearing a gun should be a suspect.


Why not? That would actually be the smart way to do it.
 
2014-01-14 04:17:14 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Call the police if someone open-carries a gun into a public building: That's the advice the Ottawa County Sheriff's Office is giving to Hudsonville city staff during trainings this month

I don't carry normally, but for this asshole, I would make an exception.  In fact I'd show up every damn day.


Let us know what the floor tastes like.
 
2014-01-14 04:17:54 PM  
I don't care what the law is; whenever you take a stroll in public with a gun on your hip, people are going to notice, and some of them are going to freak out.  They're going to call the cops.  And the cops are going to come.  When they get there, they are going to talk to you.  How that conversation goes depends a LOT on your attitude.  If the cop politely asks you to stop freaking out everyone in the mall and please put your gun away, and you agree, then everything will probably be cool.  If the cop politely asks you to stop freaking everyone out and you refuse-better yet, start lecturing him on the Constitution and State statutes-you begin to walk down the narrow path which ends somewhere between you getting a warning and you being tasered in the nuts and thrown in the back of a police car.  Either way, nobody who sees you is going to find themselves "informed" or "aware" of anything that they weren't informed or aware of, before.  And nobody who isn't also an open carry afficienado is going to suddenly have a conversion and decide that they are, in fact, supporters of your rights.  If you want to make a statement or score political points, do it like the real men do-write a check.  You'll get a lot more traction with, and attention from, the people who matter and make decisions.  And it will cost you about the same as what you paid for that tricked out 1911 and Bianchi holster.
 
2014-01-14 04:18:09 PM  
Besides the attention whores, there are quite a few OCers trolling for a lawsuit, which is like shooting fish in a barrel simply because cops can't control themselves.  Once the OCer starts with the "I don't have to answer your questions", the police move right to the arrest, and then invariably get sued and lose.

No love lost on either side for me.
 
2014-01-14 04:18:12 PM  
Staff also were taught how to react when someone open-carries into a building because "it's something that's coming out more and more," Bagladi said.

You know how I react? I don't. I go on about my business. It's amazing how farking easy it is, no training is needed.
 
2014-01-14 04:18:32 PM  

EdNortonsTwin: The reason people open carry is......................it's been a secret until now...................because it's funny to watch people wet themselves when they see a safely holstered pistol.

I'd open carry from time to time if it was legal here.

/ 8.5" thanks for asking.


You should go dig up some gangsta rap songs from the late 80s and early 90s. I understand that you probably detest that idea, but you have soooooo much in common with angry oppressed black youth from that time period. You could be blasting NWA the next time the pigs pull you over for burning rubber in the piggly wiggly parking lot, and trust me, cops haaaate that shiat.
 
2014-01-14 04:18:52 PM  

Corvus: Hey maybe all of us don't want to live in a country where we feel we must carry a gun around 24/7.


Then don't feel that way.
 
2014-01-14 04:19:25 PM  

MFAWG: FlashHarry: what is the point of open carry? is it to show off? is it to make a political point? or is it just to warn other people that you're an asshole?

It's so that you'll know to not disrespect the carrier.


Makes it easier to kill someone if they are texting during the previews of a movie.
 
2014-01-14 04:20:11 PM  

Vodka Zombie: "Look at me and the cool things I can hang from my pants!  I'm special!"


sort of like a bluetooth earpiece
 
2014-01-14 04:20:36 PM  
Uh, open-carry in MI has been legal. You just needed a CCW permit to carry in your vehicle.
 
2014-01-14 04:21:26 PM  

FlashHarry: what is the point of open carry? is it to show off? is it to make a political point? or is it just to warn other people that you're an asshole?


encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
 
2014-01-14 04:21:43 PM  

JerseyTim: 99% percent of open carriers look like tools, but it's still better than concealed carry. Concealed carry is like, "ok, if shiat goes down, I can be the hero." At least open is carry is, "Hopefully shiat won't go down if they see my piece."


Of course, not all of those open carriers are actually tools. Many are like my brother in law, and work in law enforcement, and are on the way in to or home from work, and aren't in uniform.

But hey, broad generalizations aren't just the property of the Right, are they?
 
2014-01-14 04:22:00 PM  

Kit Fister: Uh, open-carry in MI has been legal. You just needed a CCW permit to carry in your vehicle.


What if you ride with your window open, and your arm holding your gun out the window. That sounds cool as shiat actually.
 
2014-01-14 04:22:12 PM  

TV's Vinnie: Marcus Aurelius: Call the police if someone open-carries a gun into a public building: That's the advice the Ottawa County Sheriff's Office is giving to Hudsonville city staff during trainings this month

I don't carry normally, but for this asshole, I would make an exception.  In fact I'd show up every damn day.

Let us know what the floor tastes like.


I'm curious it the OC law actually extends to public buildings.  I assume the courthouse is one they don't allow carry of any sort by civilians, and in the smaller county seats, the courthouse is in the county building with the assessor's office and a lot of other public functionaries.
 
2014-01-14 04:22:23 PM  

GoldSpider: Corvus: Hey maybe all of us don't want to live in a country where we feel we must carry a gun around 24/7.

Then don't feel that way.


Pretty much this. Don't want to carry a gun? Don't. DOn't like guns? don't own them. I don't tell people not to ride bicycles or drink fruity coctails or get gay married if they want.
 
2014-01-14 04:23:02 PM  

TFerWannaBe: MFAWG: FlashHarry: what is the point of open carry? is it to show off? is it to make a political point? or is it just to warn other people that you're an asshole?

It's so that you'll know to not disrespect the carrier.

If you can't take some insults without pulling out your piece, you deserve the disrespect.


A responsible gun owner will never pull their piece on a whim. If you're a responsible gun owner, one of the biggest things you learn (when getting licensed to carry) is not when to pull your sidearm -- but when not to. If you pull your piece, you can get arrested. You will be inconvenienced by law enforcement, you will have to sign statements. If you fire your piece, that can be a crime.

Responsible gun owners don't shoot from the hip, they have to have situational awareness, and they have to use discretion. Because even if there's a 'misunderstanding', a misunderstanding can waste that gun owner's time and money dealing with the legal paperwork.

People who openly carry guns will go out of their way not to be inconvenienced, and therefore will not simply pull their piece whenever they feel like they can.

But it does have something to do with respect, too. People see guns and there is a desire for self-preservation there, and they'll try not to disrespect or insult the gun owner. It's not even conscious. They simply see a gun and realize that there's something there designed to injure and kill another human being -- and their attitude and mood can change.

As for being 'the first target' for any crime being planned? This is true when it comes to tactics. But honestly, if someone is going to commit a crime they're either going to be too stupid to consider that (this isn't the movies where career criminals are geniuses), as noted by many many Fark articles where criminals are too stupid to recognize who they're farking with. Or if they're smart... they'll rethink their crime to begin with. Sure, they could pull their illegal gun and shoot someone when preparing to commit a robbery, but they also know if they do that if they get caught... the penalty is going to be much much higher. And that in of itself can be a big deterrant.

And honestly, people shouldn't have to be insulted or disrespected to begin with. But they are. And if people want to stop that behavior, open carry is a good way to get that result.
 
2014-01-14 04:23:11 PM  

BunkoSquad: Kit Fister: Uh, open-carry in MI has been legal. You just needed a CCW permit to carry in your vehicle.

What if you ride with your window open, and your arm holding your gun out the window. That sounds cool as shiat actually.


Nope, still considered concealed. Also if you have it on your dash.  They went over it in the CCW class.
 
2014-01-14 04:23:14 PM  

Mikey1969: Staff also were taught how to react when someone open-carries into a building because "it's something that's coming out more and more," Bagladi said.

You know how I react? I don't. I go on about my business. It's amazing how farking easy it is, no training is needed.


Until a lump of copper is lodged in your parietal lobe.  Then you can't react.  It's the perfect solution.
 
2014-01-14 04:23:22 PM  

GoldSpider: Corvus: Hey maybe all of us don't want to live in a country where we feel we must carry a gun around 24/7.

Then don't feel that way.


Oh then so you admit people don't need guns in public?
 
2014-01-14 04:23:46 PM  
ITT:  Lots of people projecting their own insecurities onto people who carry openly.
 
2014-01-14 04:23:57 PM  

Mikey1969: JerseyTim: 99% percent of open carriers look like tools, but it's still better than concealed carry. Concealed carry is like, "ok, if shiat goes down, I can be the hero." At least open is carry is, "Hopefully shiat won't go down if they see my piece."

Of course, not all of those open carriers are actually tools. Many are like my brother in law, and work in law enforcement, and are on the way in to or home from work, and aren't in uniform.

But hey, broad generalizations aren't just the property of the Right, are they?


Your brother in law is a 1%. And as someone who has spent his entire life around law enforcement, I'd say just because he is in law enforcement doesn't make him not a tool. Probably lends more towards him being a tool.

Broad generalizations indeed. He's in law enforcement so that means he is a good guy!
 
2014-01-14 04:24:42 PM  

Kit Fister: GoldSpider: Corvus: Hey maybe all of us don't want to live in a country where we feel we must carry a gun around 24/7.

Then don't feel that way.

Pretty much this. Don't want to carry a gun? Don't. DOn't like guns? don't own them. I don't tell people not to ride bicycles or drink fruity coctails or get gay married if they want.


Well except other people can shoot you with their gun and kill you. So that part is not your own choice now is it?
 
2014-01-14 04:24:44 PM  

Kit Fister: GoldSpider: Corvus: Hey maybe all of us don't want to live in a country where we feel we must carry a gun around 24/7.

Then don't feel that way.

Pretty much this. Don't want to carry a gun? Don't. DOn't like guns? don't own them. I don't tell people not to ride bicycles or drink fruity coctails or get gay married if they want.


Only one of these things involves a weapon designed to kill. Your comparisons suck.
 
2014-01-14 04:24:45 PM  

Car_Ramrod: EdNortonsTwin: The reason people open carry is......................it's been a secret until now...................because it's funny to watch people wet themselves when they see a safely holstered pistol.

I'd open carry from time to time if it was legal here.

/ 8.5" thanks for asking.

Eh, 8 and a half inches isn't that big of a gun.


LOL, actually it is...

Dirty Harry's big ass gun has a 9" barrel. A 6 inch barrel is pretty big to just be carrying.
 
2014-01-14 04:25:14 PM  

EdNortonsTwin: The reason people open carry is......................it's been a secret until now...................because it's funny to watch people wet themselves when they see a safely holstered pistol.

I'd open carry from time to time if it was legal here.

/ 8.5" thanks for asking.


You sound like the guy I read about every 2 or 3 months that accidentally shoots himself.

\i didn't ask
 
2014-01-14 04:25:31 PM  

Superjew: Why stop there?  Let's institute "Open Aiming" laws so anyone can point their gun directly at anyone they choose at any time.


It's assault.
 
2014-01-14 04:25:44 PM  

Weatherkiss: TFerWannaBe: MFAWG: FlashHarry: what is the point of open carry? is it to show off? is it to make a political point? or is it just to warn other people that you're an asshole?

It's so that you'll know to not disrespect the carrier.

If you can't take some insults without pulling out your piece, you deserve the disrespect.

A responsible gun owner will never pull their piece on a whim. If you're a responsible gun owner, one of the biggest things you learn (when getting licensed to carry) is not when to pull your sidearm -- but when not to. If you pull your piece, you can get arrested. You will be inconvenienced by law enforcement, you will have to sign statements. If you fire your piece, that can be a crime.

Responsible gun owners don't shoot from the hip, they have to have situational awareness, and they have to use discretion. Because even if there's a 'misunderstanding', a misunderstanding can waste that gun owner's time and money dealing with the legal paperwork.

People who openly carry guns will go out of their way not to be inconvenienced, and therefore will not simply pull their piece whenever they feel like they can.

But it does have something to do with respect, too. People see guns and there is a desire for self-preservation there, and they'll try not to disrespect or insult the gun owner. It's not even conscious. They simply see a gun and realize that there's something there designed to injure and kill another human being -- and their attitude and mood can change.

As for being 'the first target' for any crime being planned? This is true when it comes to tactics. But honestly, if someone is going to commit a crime they're either going to be too stupid to consider that (this isn't the movies where career criminals are geniuses), as noted by many many Fark articles where criminals are too stupid to recognize who they're farking with. Or if they're smart... they'll rethink their crime to begin with. Sure, they could pull their illegal gun and shoot someon ...


A whole lot of this.

ALso:

I can't find a link to it right now, sadly, but there was a statement by a training instructor who basically said "When you carry your gun, be prepared to lose every fight, admit your mother's a whore, your girlfriend's a slut, and you're a retard. You will always be wrong and you will always have to apologize."

Basically, you pull your gun if you have *no* other choice. You don't use it because you're losing an argument.
 
2014-01-14 04:26:36 PM  
So gun nuts in this thread are both saying:
A) There is NO reason you should feel nervous others have a gun or that you need a gun on public.
B) I MUST have a gun in public because of all those reason above I said you don't need to have a gun.


Umm how does that make sense?

If you feel you have to have a gun, then why don't others have the same reason need to have a gun?
 
2014-01-14 04:27:14 PM  
12,000 or so Gun related deaths in the US last year and people think keeping an eye on people openly carrying a gun is silly and stupid?

These are mostly the same people than think wearing a hoodie is a good way to get shot I imagine.
 
2014-01-14 04:27:18 PM  

Mikey1969: JerseyTim: 99% percent of open carriers look like tools, but it's still better than concealed carry. Concealed carry is like, "ok, if shiat goes down, I can be the hero." At least open is carry is, "Hopefully shiat won't go down if they see my piece."

Of course, not all of those open carriers are actually tools. Many are like my brother in law, and work in law enforcement, and are on the way in to or home from work, and aren't in uniform.

But hey, broad generalizations aren't just the property of the Right, are they?


I didn't say that they were tools. I said they look like tools.
 
2014-01-14 04:27:38 PM  
NY State has allowed women to open carry their breasts for years and they still get hauled off to jail for indecent exposure.
 
2014-01-14 04:27:39 PM  

Corvus: Well except other people can shoot you with their gun and kill you. So that part is not your own choice now is it?


Considering that can happen just about anywhere, even the UK  (albeit much less likely), then I don't see how that's ever a reasonably sound thought.

You still have a greater chance, in the US, of dying due to a drunk driver, drowning in a pool, or having a heart attack than you do getting shot. But yes, do continue to fear the unlikely.
 
2014-01-14 04:27:45 PM  

Weatherkiss: A responsible gun owner will never pull their piece on a whim


I can't tell the difference between a responsible gun owner and a maniac until he pulls and starts shooting. Can you?
 
2014-01-14 04:28:14 PM  

mediablitz: Only one of these things involves a weapon designed to kill. Your comparisons suck.


Who said they were comparisons? I was naming things I don't like but don't tell others not to do. Or am I not allowed to do that?
 
2014-01-14 04:28:28 PM  

TFerWannaBe: Weatherkiss: A responsible gun owner will never pull their piece on a whim

I can't tell the difference between a responsible gun owner and a maniac until he pulls and starts shooting. Can you?


What color is he?
 
2014-01-14 04:28:30 PM  

capn' fun: I don't care what the law is; whenever you take a stroll in public with a gun on your hip, people are going to notice, and some of them are going to freak out.  They're going to call the cops.  And the cops are going to come.  When they get there, they are going to talk to you.  How that conversation goes depends a LOT on your attitude.


Pretty much.  Growing up in Minnesota where the hunting opener is essentially a state holiday - I have never seen people freak out over someone having a gun until I moved to Boulder, CO, after school.  One of the neighbors called the cops when they notice we were carrying a set of guns to our car (in their cases), locked them in our trunk, and drove off.  When we got back home - a cop was waiting, asked us one or two questions, shrugged, and just left.

A few weeks later I was able to ask one of the local cops about it and he mentioned they get one of those calls a few times a week.  Mainly from hikers freaking out after seeing hunters in wildlife areas.

/Boulder - the Berkley of Colorado
 
2014-01-14 04:28:32 PM  

FlashHarry: what is the point of open carry? is it to show off? is it to make a political point? or is it just to warn other people that you're an asshole?


Like the zen riddle of life, it reduces violent crime, except when it increases it.

The Weapon Effect (look it up) means heated confrontations get worse and robberies become murders.  It also means the only person willing to start anything in the first place is dumb, mad, or crazy enough to be particularly dangerous.

Armed gays don't get bashed, but they do sometimes get shot.

The armed weekend warrior won't stop a rampage, but a rampage is less likely to kill you than traffic and the open-carry dude isn't going to flip out on you.
 
2014-01-14 04:28:48 PM  

Kit Fister: I can't find a link to it right now, sadly, but there was a statement by a training instructor who basically said "When you carry your gun, be prepared to lose every fight, admit your mother's a whore, your girlfriend's a slut, and you're a retard. You will always be wrong and you will always have to apologize."


So then no one is allowed to carry a gun unless they can do this?

Or do we hand out guns to any ass?

See all gun owners think they are the most awesome person in the world, but you know what, they aren't.
 
2014-01-14 04:29:09 PM  

Superjew: Why stop there?  Let's institute "Open Aiming" laws so anyone can point their gun directly at anyone they choose at any time.


Why stop there?  Let's institute "open murder" laws where any time you touch a gun you're required to shoot the closest person.  I mean, that's what a gun is made for, right?  It's purpose. Your life is empty because you spend it trying to stop the gun from becoming.
 
2014-01-14 04:30:08 PM  

mr intrepid: That's always been my question; how do we differentiate between the hood going to knock over the quicky-mart, and Mr responsible gun owner? Until it's too late?


Usually the hood doesn't spend $60 on a nice holster, $50 on a decent belt and broadcast his intent to bring a weapon into the Quickie-Mart.

Didn't realize these questions required Mensa-level intelligence.
 
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