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(CBC)   Canadians shocked to find that extended stays at new, ultramodern superhospitals could cost them tens of dollars a day   (cbc.ca) divider line 62
    More: Interesting, Canadians, Montreal, Radio-Canada, deputy minister, dollars  
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2704 clicks; posted to Geek » on 14 Jan 2014 at 3:53 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-14 03:27:59 PM  
IT'S AN OUTRAGE
 
2014-01-14 03:45:39 PM  
The upgrade from ward to semiprivate or private is standard in most workplace insurance coverage.
 
2014-01-14 03:59:53 PM  
I wonder how much they'll charge for leaving you on a gurney in a hallway because they had to shut down an entire wing due to budget shortages.
 
2014-01-14 04:20:34 PM  
And the extremely wealthy will still cross the border for medical care instead if waiting.
 
2014-01-14 04:30:55 PM  

unyon: The upgrade from ward to semiprivate or private is standard in most workplace insurance coverage.


Because of socialist healthcare, employer healthcare plans tend to be very uneven in what's covered in Quebec. Most plans cover medication, some level of access to paid specialists and ambulance transport. Hospital fees will be covered mostly by plans in workplaces with Unions.
 
2014-01-14 04:38:24 PM  
Canadians are so lucky that they get health care and NOBODY has to foot the bill.
 
2014-01-14 04:50:27 PM  

steamingpile: And the extremely wealthy will still cross the border for medical care instead if waiting.


So?
 
2014-01-14 04:50:48 PM  

SevenizGud: Canadians are so lucky that they get health care and NOBODY has to foot the bill.


Yeah, but at the slightest kind of weakness you get hit with the death panels
 
2014-01-14 04:54:15 PM  

steamingpile: And the extremely wealthy will still cross the border for medical care instead if waiting.


Well somebody has to make up for all the wealthy Americans going abroad for health care.
 
2014-01-14 04:56:05 PM  
A few years ago my dad had bowel surgery and was supposed to be in the hospital for a week.  After multiple complications, he left 2 1/2 months later.  He requested and was in a private room for almost the entire time, except for 2 weeks.  His room bill came to $2,500 (gotta love Canada), but was reduced to $0 because of the 2 week stay in a semi private room.
 
2014-01-14 05:29:18 PM  

steamingpile: And the extremely wealthy will still cross the border for medical care instead if waiting.


You ALMOST had me. I even typed out a response. Keep it simple, with a complete and total lack of logic and reason ever-so-slightly exposed. Get in and get out, with tremendous confidence. Well done.
 
2014-01-14 05:29:42 PM  
This is in Quebec. Nothing to do with Canada.
 
2014-01-14 05:33:01 PM  

quo vadimus: steamingpile: And the extremely wealthy will still cross the border for medical care instead if waiting.

You ALMOST had me. I even typed out a response. Keep it simple, with a complete and total lack of logic and reason ever-so-slightly exposed. Get in and get out, with tremendous confidence. Well done.


This was another good one.

Flab: I wonder how much they'll charge for leaving you on a gurney in a hallway because they had to shut down an entire wing due to budget shortages.

 
2014-01-14 05:34:21 PM  
$71cad! This is an outrage!

/In Prague it's $7.50usd a night for semi private, $50usd for private
//bonus, Czech nurses
//csb
 
2014-01-14 06:03:24 PM  
My god the horror, it is almost as much as a US hospital will charge for an aspirin tablet.
 
2014-01-14 06:11:34 PM  

SevenizGud: Canadians are so lucky that they get health care and NOBODY has to foot the bill.


Wouldn't it be cool if you had to pay for the healthcare of the uninsured AND your own private health cover?
 
2014-01-14 06:13:41 PM  

Eps05: unyon: The upgrade from ward to semiprivate or private is standard in most workplace insurance coverage.

Because of socialist healthcare, employer healthcare plans tend to be very uneven in what's covered in Quebec. Most plans cover medication, some level of access to paid specialists and ambulance transport. Hospital fees will be covered mostly by plans in workplaces with Unions.


Aren't ambulance rides and medications covered under the health plan that Canadians get just for being Canadian?
 
2014-01-14 06:32:30 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Eps05: unyon: The upgrade from ward to semiprivate or private is standard in most workplace insurance coverage.

Because of socialist healthcare, employer healthcare plans tend to be very uneven in what's covered in Quebec. Most plans cover medication, some level of access to paid specialists and ambulance transport. Hospital fees will be covered mostly by plans in workplaces with Unions.

Aren't ambulance rides and medications covered under the health plan that Canadians get just for being Canadian?



Nope. We (or our insurance) pay for medications, ambulance rides, semi-private rooms, etc. Basic doctor visits and hospital care are covered. If you have a heart attack, you're out of pocket for the ambulance ride and medications. The hospital stay, surgeries, and specialist care are covered by our provincial health insurance. If you get drugs in hospital, it's free.

I had appendicitis when I was just out of school and completely uninsured. I got a semi-private room because the ward was full. The only money I spent was on the Tylenol 3 after they discharged me. Morphine in my iv, surgery, post-op followup all cost me nada.
 
2014-01-14 06:40:29 PM  

Cajnik: In Prague it's $7.50usd a night for semi private, $50usd for private


But will they take a cheque?
 
2014-01-14 06:41:09 PM  

daisygrrl: TuteTibiImperes: Eps05: unyon: The upgrade from ward to semiprivate or private is standard in most workplace insurance coverage.

Because of socialist healthcare, employer healthcare plans tend to be very uneven in what's covered in Quebec. Most plans cover medication, some level of access to paid specialists and ambulance transport. Hospital fees will be covered mostly by plans in workplaces with Unions.

Aren't ambulance rides and medications covered under the health plan that Canadians get just for being Canadian?


Nope. We (or our insurance) pay for medications, ambulance rides, semi-private rooms, etc. Basic doctor visits and hospital care are covered. If you have a heart attack, you're out of pocket for the ambulance ride and medications. The hospital stay, surgeries, and specialist care are covered by our provincial health insurance. If you get drugs in hospital, it's free.

I had appendicitis when I was just out of school and completely uninsured. I got a semi-private room because the ward was full. The only money I spent was on the Tylenol 3 after they discharged me. Morphine in my iv, surgery, post-op followup all cost me nada.


To clarify, provinces can choose what they do and don't cover.  I don't think there's a single province that covers ambulance rides, though.
 
2014-01-14 06:52:57 PM  

Shazam999: daisygrrl: TuteTibiImperes: Eps05: unyon: The upgrade from ward to semiprivate or private is standard in most workplace insurance coverage.

Because of socialist healthcare, employer healthcare plans tend to be very uneven in what's covered in Quebec. Most plans cover medication, some level of access to paid specialists and ambulance transport. Hospital fees will be covered mostly by plans in workplaces with Unions.

Aren't ambulance rides and medications covered under the health plan that Canadians get just for being Canadian?


Nope. We (or our insurance) pay for medications, ambulance rides, semi-private rooms, etc. Basic doctor visits and hospital care are covered. If you have a heart attack, you're out of pocket for the ambulance ride and medications. The hospital stay, surgeries, and specialist care are covered by our provincial health insurance. If you get drugs in hospital, it's free.

I had appendicitis when I was just out of school and completely uninsured. I got a semi-private room because the ward was full. The only money I spent was on the Tylenol 3 after they discharged me. Morphine in my iv, surgery, post-op followup all cost me nada.

To clarify, provinces can choose what they do and don't cover.  I don't think there's a single province that covers ambulance rides, though.


I was curious so I googled around a bit, it looks like at least in BC and Ontario (the two I checked) ambulances are at least heavy subsidized.

BC shows that it's a flat $80 if you have the BC health card. Ontario shows $45 + a small fee per km after 40 km. Both of those seem extremely reasonable.

Contrast with the US where an ambulance ride can easily cost $500-$1,000 (or more of they have to do stuff while.transporting you) and typically isn't fully covered even by health insurance plans. Many will only pay a small part of ambulance service after the deductible has been reached.
 
2014-01-14 07:04:39 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Shazam999: daisygrrl: TuteTibiImperes: Eps05: unyon: The upgrade from ward to semiprivate or private is standard in most workplace insurance coverage.

Because of socialist healthcare, employer healthcare plans tend to be very uneven in what's covered in Quebec. Most plans cover medication, some level of access to paid specialists and ambulance transport. Hospital fees will be covered mostly by plans in workplaces with Unions.

Aren't ambulance rides and medications covered under the health plan that Canadians get just for being Canadian?


Nope. We (or our insurance) pay for medications, ambulance rides, semi-private rooms, etc. Basic doctor visits and hospital care are covered. If you have a heart attack, you're out of pocket for the ambulance ride and medications. The hospital stay, surgeries, and specialist care are covered by our provincial health insurance. If you get drugs in hospital, it's free.

I had appendicitis when I was just out of school and completely uninsured. I got a semi-private room because the ward was full. The only money I spent was on the Tylenol 3 after they discharged me. Morphine in my iv, surgery, post-op followup all cost me nada.

To clarify, provinces can choose what they do and don't cover.  I don't think there's a single province that covers ambulance rides, though.

I was curious so I googled around a bit, it looks like at least in BC and Ontario (the two I checked) ambulances are at least heavy subsidized.

BC shows that it's a flat $80 if you have the BC health card. Ontario shows $45 + a small fee per km after 40 km. Both of those seem extremely reasonable.

Contrast with the US where an ambulance ride can easily cost $500-$1,000 (or more of they have to do stuff while.transporting you) and typically isn't fully covered even by health insurance plans. Many will only pay a small part of ambulance service after the deductible has been reached.


There's lots of exceptions - In Alberta for instance, seniors are covered for ambulance, drugs and all sorts of other things.  Under 18 also get stuff covered like eye exams.
 
2014-01-14 07:23:04 PM  

steamingpile: And the extremely wealthy will still cross the border for medical care instead if waiting.


It's their money, they can do what they want with it. Why do you hate the free market?
 
2014-01-14 07:38:41 PM  
quebec really hates to follow Canadian healthcare laws in regards to "you can't charge extra fee's for medical shiat!!!"

/But then gain, Quebec is not part of Canada, so cut them loose and stop unfairly giving them Canadas tax money.
//Canada's governments also refuse to 'fully' fund the healthcare system, which results in unlawful waiting lists.
 
2014-01-14 07:55:10 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Eps05: unyon: The upgrade from ward to semiprivate or private is standard in most workplace insurance coverage.

Because of socialist healthcare, employer healthcare plans tend to be very uneven in what's covered in Quebec. Most plans cover medication, some level of access to paid specialists and ambulance transport. Hospital fees will be covered mostly by plans in workplaces with Unions.

Aren't ambulance rides and medications covered under the health plan that Canadians get just for being Canadian?


Ambulances sometimes are, sometimes aren't, depends on the province (Ontario is the only one I know of).

No prescription medications aren't, so far as I know, even for things that you'd think would be a risk to the public health if left untreated. Nor are various aids, whether temporarily mobility aids like crutches because you have a foot cast, to more expensive things like wheelchairs, hearing aids, artificial limbs. This is what private/employer insurance is for.

Pretty much most any service performed by a medical professional (an actual MD) is covered, or anything incurred during a hospital stay. Any physical product that you use or consume, outside of a hospital stay, is not. There are some exceptions on either side, but that's the basic split.
 
2014-01-14 08:00:00 PM  

Niveras: Ambulances sometimes are, sometimes aren't, depends on the province (Ontario is the only one I know of).


I see now this is covered in more detail by individuals more knowledgeable than I.
 
2014-01-14 08:06:55 PM  
My wife had a c-section the end of December, at a hospital in Ontario.  She was in the hospital for 4 days, 3 nights.  I had to pay $256 total for the room upgrade, we upgraded to semi-private.  The hospital was empty enough that she didn't get a room mate.

$256 for a c-section.
 
2014-01-14 08:14:01 PM  

Phil Moskowitz: Cajnik: In Prague it's $7.50usd a night for semi private, $50usd for private

But will they take a cheque?


speak ENGLISH boy
 
2014-01-14 08:14:35 PM  

Shazam999: daisygrrl: TuteTibiImperes: Eps05: unyon: The upgrade from ward to semiprivate or private is standard in most workplace insurance coverage.

Because of socialist healthcare, employer healthcare plans tend to be very uneven in what's covered in Quebec. Most plans cover medication, some level of access to paid specialists and ambulance transport. Hospital fees will be covered mostly by plans in workplaces with Unions.

Aren't ambulance rides and medications covered under the health plan that Canadians get just for being Canadian?


Nope. We (or our insurance) pay for medications, ambulance rides, semi-private rooms, etc. Basic doctor visits and hospital care are covered. If you have a heart attack, you're out of pocket for the ambulance ride and medications. The hospital stay, surgeries, and specialist care are covered by our provincial health insurance. If you get drugs in hospital, it's free.

I had appendicitis when I was just out of school and completely uninsured. I got a semi-private room because the ward was full. The only money I spent was on the Tylenol 3 after they discharged me. Morphine in my iv, surgery, post-op followup all cost me nada.

To clarify, provinces can choose what they do and don't cover.  I don't think there's a single province that covers ambulance rides, though.


Fair enough. However, there's a basic level of care that all provinces must provide - it's covered under the Canada Health Act. The provinces  may provide a higher level of care (seniors getting free ambulance) or provide supplementary coverage for specific groups (uninsured children). I'm in Ontario, so my flu shot was covered by the province. My Quebecker friends pay for their flu shot unless they're in a high-risk category.
 
2014-01-14 08:31:19 PM  

Kwai Lo: My wife had a c-section the end of December, at a hospital in Ontario.  She was in the hospital for 4 days, 3 nights.  I had to pay $256 total for the room upgrade, we upgraded to semi-private.  The hospital was empty enough that she didn't get a room mate.

$256 for a c-section.


See how much socialism sucks?

Meanwhile in 'Murica my wife was charged almost that much for a 15 minute ambulance ride.
 
2014-01-14 08:43:59 PM  

steamingpile: And the extremely wealthy will still cross the border for medical care instead if waiting.


Enough about Americans. Canadians don't care that America's hospitals are so bad that the rich fly elsewhere.
 
2014-01-14 08:53:49 PM  

daisygrrl: Shazam999: daisygrrl: TuteTibiImperes: Eps05: unyon: The upgrade from ward to semiprivate or private is standard in most workplace insurance coverage.

Because of socialist healthcare, employer healthcare plans tend to be very uneven in what's covered in Quebec. Most plans cover medication, some level of access to paid specialists and ambulance transport. Hospital fees will be covered mostly by plans in workplaces with Unions.

Aren't ambulance rides and medications covered under the health plan that Canadians get just for being Canadian?


Nope. We (or our insurance) pay for medications, ambulance rides, semi-private rooms, etc. Basic doctor visits and hospital care are covered. If you have a heart attack, you're out of pocket for the ambulance ride and medications. The hospital stay, surgeries, and specialist care are covered by our provincial health insurance. If you get drugs in hospital, it's free.

I had appendicitis when I was just out of school and completely uninsured. I got a semi-private room because the ward was full. The only money I spent was on the Tylenol 3 after they discharged me. Morphine in my iv, surgery, post-op followup all cost me nada.

To clarify, provinces can choose what they do and don't cover.  I don't think there's a single province that covers ambulance rides, though.

Fair enough. However, there's a basic level of care that all provinces must provide - it's covered under the Canada Health Act. The provinces  may provide a higher level of care (seniors getting free ambulance) or provide supplementary coverage for specific groups (uninsured children). I'm in Ontario, so my flu shot was covered by the province. My Quebecker friends pay for their flu shot unless they're in a high-risk category.


Oh, not disagreeing with you or anything, just explaining it to the US folks because they seem to think that everything under the sun is covered and that it's decided by federal bodies.
 
2014-01-14 09:04:32 PM  
Huh. At my local "home" hospital, every room is private. I can watch TV all night if I want to, and order from room service up until about 11:00 PM...almost anything I might want (if I'm not on a special diet) from burgers and pizza to grilled salmon, fire-roasted vegetables and salad. I almost like going to the hospital there.
 
2014-01-14 09:05:22 PM  
But as a Canadian I and others I know would love to have two-tier if it would work. Give me a choice of where I want to go and cover a specific amount. If I want to go to the states cover what would be billed to the doctors in Canada.  It does take too long to see a specialist and you have to get referred there by your GP. Get a GP who hasn't had training in years (btw doctors do not have to do any further education after they finish unlike other industries) who doesn't agree with you and you won't get to see a specialist, you won't pass go. Don't like your GP, that's too bad you can't switch doctors unless your GP releases you.

It's not perfect but at least I won't be filing for bankruptcy if I have something bad happen. And wait times? If you get assessed and you need an MRI, you will get one right now. If you have a bum knee and they want to do an MRI before doing knee replacement well you will wait (but it has gotten better).
 
2014-01-14 09:09:52 PM  

Kwai Lo: My wife had a c-section the end of December, at a hospital in Ontario.  She was in the hospital for 4 days, 3 nights.  I had to pay $256 total for the room upgrade, we upgraded to semi-private.  The hospital was empty enough that she didn't get a room mate.

$256 for a c-section.



My wife had a similar situation 8 years ago here in the US:  a C-section followed by 3 nights in the hospital (in a room shared with one other woman) and I can't even begin to tell you how much it eventually cost because the bills trickled in for more than a year. And they came from dozens of sources, including collection agencies for bills that had never been presented to us in the first place.

Enormous accordions of paper covered in indecipherable rows of billing codes, credits, debits and mysterious abbreviations just rolled in. Sometimes duplicate copies of the same bill would arrive on the same day, in different envelopes. We then had to forward these bills on to a secondary insurer, so that they could pick and choose what to pay, and then we were stuck paying for whatever was left.

As I recall, most of the bills we received during that 18 month period were for more than your $256 room upgrade. But at least we weren't tainted by the socializums.
 
2014-01-14 09:19:35 PM  

rikkards: But as a Canadian I and others I know would love to have two-tier if it would work. Give me a choice of where I want to go and cover a specific amount. If I want to go to the states cover what would be billed to the doctors in Canada.  It does take too long to see a specialist and you have to get referred there by your GP. Get a GP who hasn't had training in years (btw doctors do not have to do any further education after they finish unlike other industries) who doesn't agree with you and you won't get to see a specialist, you won't pass go. Don't like your GP, that's too bad you can't switch doctors unless your GP releases you.

It's not perfect but at least I won't be filing for bankruptcy if I have something bad happen. And wait times? If you get assessed and you need an MRI, you will get one right now. If you have a bum knee and they want to do an MRI before doing knee replacement well you will wait (but it has gotten better).


I'm pretty happy with our health care system, and can vouch that if you need something, you'll get it quickly.

Over the summer, my mother was diagnosed with breast cancer. From finding the lump to initial surgery was three weeks. This included several consultations with specialists, blood tests, x-rays, etc.

The only out of pocket expense was for parking at the hospital.
 
2014-01-14 09:29:49 PM  

Flappyhead: This was another good one.

Flab: I wonder how much they'll charge for leaving you on a gurney in a hallway because they had to shut down an entire wing due to budget shortages.


It was barely an exageration.  Have you ever seen the emergency wing of most Montreal-area hospitals?

Most hospitals have entire wings closed because it costs too much in maintenance, nurses, etc... to have them staffed and used by in-patients, so during High volume" periods, such as say -  a polar vortex during the new years statutory holiday - it's not unusual to have people on stretchers lining up the hallways of the wards that are open.

This is one of the reasons they're building the two new super hospitals.  For example, if the ER at Montreal General was overflowing, yet there were empty beds at the Chest Institute, you couldn't easily transfer a burn victim or someone with an open fracture there.  Now with all these hospitals under the same roof, it'll be much easier to use available beds in one dept to accomodate another one that's overflowing.

/Spent Jan 2 at the ER with my son who had an allergic reaction to something he ate.
 
2014-01-14 09:35:07 PM  

quo vadimus: steamingpile: And the extremely wealthy will still cross the border for medical care instead if waiting.

You ALMOST had me. I even typed out a response. Keep it simple, with a complete and total lack of logic and reason ever-so-slightly exposed. Get in and get out, with tremendous confidence. Well done.


No, he's right. The richest Canadians go south, because even the best private rooms in our hospitals aren't good enough for them.
 
2014-01-14 09:38:00 PM  

rustypouch: rikkards: But as a Canadian I and others I know would love to have two-tier if it would work. Give me a choice of where I want to go and cover a specific amount. If I want to go to the states cover what would be billed to the doctors in Canada.  It does take too long to see a specialist and you have to get referred there by your GP. Get a GP who hasn't had training in years (btw doctors do not have to do any further education after they finish unlike other industries) who doesn't agree with you and you won't get to see a specialist, you won't pass go. Don't like your GP, that's too bad you can't switch doctors unless your GP releases you.

It's not perfect but at least I won't be filing for bankruptcy if I have something bad happen. And wait times? If you get assessed and you need an MRI, you will get one right now. If you have a bum knee and they want to do an MRI before doing knee replacement well you will wait (but it has gotten better).

I'm pretty happy with our health care system, and can vouch that if you need something, you'll get it quickly.

Over the summer, my mother was diagnosed with breast cancer. From finding the lump to initial surgery was three weeks. This included several consultations with specialists, blood tests, x-rays, etc.

The only out of pocket expense was for parking at the hospital.


When it works it's great, try to deviate even the slightest and you may as well as go to the states. There is no flexibility. For example, you find out that there is a doctor doing cutting edge surgery but he is in BC and you are in Ontario. You're on your own. Best part is if Ontario does pay, they will send you to the states not to another province.

Friend of the family has Uterine Fibroids. There is a medication that got approved in Canada earlier this year (been used in Europe for 5 years now) that has 80% success in shrinking them. Should mention that I would put her up against any doctor who knows anything about these. She has had them for about 3-4 years and has researched the crap out of them reading anything and everything about it. She went to see her GP to get a prescription and it isn't his area of care so he got her a referral to a gyno. 5 months later the gyno says only thing she will do is a hysterectomy, from her discussion with the Gyno, her knowledge is at least 10 years out of date. Got another referral to another gyno in the city who knows what Fibrastal is and would definitely prescribe it. That appointment is in August.

The best part is this person is more than willing to pay out of pocket for the medication and is trying her damndest not to lose her uterus but is willing as a last resort. This first gyno would rather spend tax payers dollars on a surgery that may not necessarily be needed than write a prescription.

People forget socialized medicine isn't free. A lot of our tax dollars go into it and it is something we accept but if someone is willing to take on a prescription, knows the risks involved, the doctor should step aside and act as a consultant which ultimately they are and not as our care takers which they seem to think their role is.
 
2014-01-14 09:39:08 PM  

rikkards: But as a Canadian I and others I know would love to have two-tier if it would work. Give me a choice of where I want to go and cover a specific amount. If I want to go to the states cover what would be billed to the doctors in Canada.  It does take too long to see a specialist and you have to get referred there by your GP. Get a GP who hasn't had training in years (btw doctors do not have to do any further education after they finish unlike other industries) who doesn't agree with you and you won't get to see a specialist, you won't pass go. Don't like your GP, that's too bad you can't switch doctors unless your GP releases you.

It's not perfect but at least I won't be filing for bankruptcy if I have something bad happen. And wait times? If you get assessed and you need an MRI, you will get one right now. If you have a bum knee and they want to do an MRI before doing knee replacement well you will wait (but it has gotten better).


This depends on the province.  Here in QC, you can go to a private radiology clinic for x-rays, ultrasounds, or MRIs, if you don't like the wait at the hospital.  They also allow some same-day orhtopedic surgeries to occur at private clinics, if you have the cash (or private insurance)
 
2014-01-14 09:42:46 PM  

rikkards: But as a Canadian I and others I know would love to have two-tier if it would work.


And you would be in the minority.
 
2014-01-14 09:44:34 PM  
Healthcare costs are way lower in a country with a near homogeneous population (70+% cauc/euro descent) with a total number less than the state of California alone, yet crammed into a total area smaller than Kansas?

I...I just never would have guessed that. It almost makes complete sense.

But people should TOTALLY keep drawing comparisons between US heathcare and Canada or other small European nations. They're sensible and logical.

/I don't disagree that the system is irrevocably broken
//saying "but but but in canada if you get cancer its free" is asinine
 
2014-01-14 09:47:01 PM  

Flab: rikkards: But as a Canadian I and others I know would love to have two-tier if it would work. Give me a choice of where I want to go and cover a specific amount. If I want to go to the states cover what would be billed to the doctors in Canada.  It does take too long to see a specialist and you have to get referred there by your GP. Get a GP who hasn't had training in years (btw doctors do not have to do any further education after they finish unlike other industries) who doesn't agree with you and you won't get to see a specialist, you won't pass go. Don't like your GP, that's too bad you can't switch doctors unless your GP releases you.

It's not perfect but at least I won't be filing for bankruptcy if I have something bad happen. And wait times? If you get assessed and you need an MRI, you will get one right now. If you have a bum knee and they want to do an MRI before doing knee replacement well you will wait (but it has gotten better).

This depends on the province.  Here in QC, you can go to a private radiology clinic for x-rays, ultrasounds, or MRIs, if you don't like the wait at the hospital.  They also allow some same-day orhtopedic surgeries to occur at private clinics, if you have the cash (or private insurance)


My wife got a stroke from an upper neck adjustment from chiropractor (don't get me started on them) and we spent Jan 1 2005 in the hospital (total bill $45 for the ambulance). The specialist who saw her  wanted to get her an MRI as a followup as it was obvious it wasn't getting worse and to get an idea on what was going on. At that point the typical wait time was 6 months due to lack of machines. She was in 3 week later as she was considered critical. While we were waiting for the call we were mulling of paying out of pocket to get her into the MRI clinic in Gatineau Quebec. I was unemployed at that point so we were fortunate as we didn't have to beg people to help (see above about province should cover if you go elsewhere). Although for us it ended up being quick I am sure there were others who were pushed out of the way who probably were in a similar boat of unknown that wanted to know.
 
2014-01-14 09:56:52 PM  

rikkards: Flab: rikkards: But as a Canadian I and others I know would love to have two-tier if it would work. Give me a choice of where I want to go and cover a specific amount. If I want to go to the states cover what would be billed to the doctors in Canada.  It does take too long to see a specialist and you have to get referred there by your GP. Get a GP who hasn't had training in years (btw doctors do not have to do any further education after they finish unlike other industries) who doesn't agree with you and you won't get to see a specialist, you won't pass go. Don't like your GP, that's too bad you can't switch doctors unless your GP releases you.

It's not perfect but at least I won't be filing for bankruptcy if I have something bad happen. And wait times? If you get assessed and you need an MRI, you will get one right now. If you have a bum knee and they want to do an MRI before doing knee replacement well you will wait (but it has gotten better).

This depends on the province.  Here in QC, you can go to a private radiology clinic for x-rays, ultrasounds, or MRIs, if you don't like the wait at the hospital.  They also allow some same-day orhtopedic surgeries to occur at private clinics, if you have the cash (or private insurance)

My wife got a stroke from an upper neck adjustment from chiropractor (don't get me started on them) and we spent Jan 1 2005 in the hospital (total bill $45 for the ambulance). The specialist who saw her  wanted to get her an MRI as a followup as it was obvious it wasn't getting worse and to get an idea on what was going on. At that point the typical wait time was 6 months due to lack of machines. She was in 3 week later as she was considered critical. While we were waiting for the call we were mulling of paying out of pocket to get her into the MRI clinic in Gatineau Quebec. I was unemployed at that point so we were fortunate as we didn't have to beg people to help (see above about province should cover if you go elsewhere). Although for us ...


Oh, I know it's not perfect.  My wife had to get an ear MRI for vertigo spells and there was a 4-5 month wait time for it at the hospital.

Fortunately for us, we didn't have to chose between coughing up the $800 or eating that month, so she went to a private clinic 2 or 3 days later.

Now, getting an appointement with the ENT who follows her is something else!
 
2014-01-14 10:01:58 PM  
At the Montreal General hospital, patients fork over $71 a night for a semi-private room and $141 for a fully private room.

So...for the cost of a serious procedure here in the US, I could pretty much just stay in a Canadian hospital for the rest of my life.

Nice.  Greatest health system in the world...for certain values of great.
 
2014-01-14 10:05:44 PM  

whatshisname: quo vadimus: steamingpile: And the extremely wealthy will still cross the border for medical care instead if waiting.

You ALMOST had me. I even typed out a response. Keep it simple, with a complete and total lack of logic and reason ever-so-slightly exposed. Get in and get out, with tremendous confidence. Well done.

No, he's right. The richest Canadians go south, because even the best private rooms in our hospitals aren't good enough for them.


You can be right and still be making an argument that doesn't actually support your point at all.
 
2014-01-14 10:50:22 PM  

grinding_journalist: Healthcare costs are way lower in a country with a near homogeneous population (70+% cauc/euro descent) with a total number less than the state of California alone, yet crammed into a total area smaller than Kansas?

I...I just never would have guessed that. It almost makes complete sense.

But people should TOTALLY keep drawing comparisons between US heathcare and Canada or other small European nations. They're sensible and logical.

/I don't disagree that the system is irrevocably broken
//saying "but but but in canada if you get cancer its free" is asinine


Those differences aren't very good arguments for why universal single payer couldn't work here.  Sure, the population is larger, but that also means more people paying into the universal system, so it balances out.

The race and cultural background of those covered shouldn't be relevant.  Yes, certain races are more prone to certain maladies than others, but a lot of that comes from economic status and poorer minority groups often delaying treatment because they can't afford it.  Give everyone equal access to care with little to no out of pocket expense and the poor will seek treatment earlier and more often, allowing chronic illnesses to be addressed more cheaply and successfully.

Physical distance is another red herring.  Someone who lives 200 miles from the closest hospital now would still live 200 miles from the closest hospital under a universal single payer system.  If you choose to live out in the boonies you just accept that there will be more travel involved to reach certain services.

Plus, moving to a universal single payer system would allow costs to be controlled far more effectively.  Instead of the government overpaying for medications, they could tell the pharmaceutical companies what they're going to pay, and the companies would have to accept it.  Instead of many insurance companies and hospital systems bargaining over reimbursement rates for various procedures, the government could publish an official nationwide price list and mandate that all medical providers accept it.

When all payments come from one place, and by law all health care providers are required to accept the official reimbursement as payment in full, the costs will drop dramatically.
 
2014-01-14 11:33:48 PM  

grinding_journalist: Healthcare costs are way lower in a country with a near homogeneous population (70+% cauc/euro descent) with a total number less than the state of California alone, yet crammed into a total area smaller than Kansas?

I...I just never would have guessed that. It almost makes complete sense.

But people should TOTALLY keep drawing comparisons between US heathcare and Canada or other small European nations. They're sensible and logical.

/I don't disagree that the system is irrevocably broken
//saying "but but but in canada if you get cancer its free" is asinine


How come the UK NHS costs far less than half per capita than healthcare in the US? With many costs, such as cost of land to build hospitals for example, being far higher than the US.

Economies of scale should make US healthcare cheaper, not more expensive. Yet it costs vastly more while offering a service that bankrupts people.

And how does the population diversity significantly affect costs? Is a broken leg in a Hispanic man different to a broken leg in a European man? What extra cost does ethnicity incur? Are you saying that more than doubles the per capita cost of healthcare?
 
2014-01-14 11:40:07 PM  

Flab: rikkards: But as a Canadian I and others I know would love to have two-tier if it would work. Give me a choice of where I want to go and cover a specific amount. If I want to go to the states cover what would be billed to the doctors in Canada.  It does take too long to see a specialist and you have to get referred there by your GP. Get a GP who hasn't had training in years (btw doctors do not have to do any further education after they finish unlike other industries) who doesn't agree with you and you won't get to see a specialist, you won't pass go. Don't like your GP, that's too bad you can't switch doctors unless your GP releases you.

It's not perfect but at least I won't be filing for bankruptcy if I have something bad happen. And wait times? If you get assessed and you need an MRI, you will get one right now. If you have a bum knee and they want to do an MRI before doing knee replacement well you will wait (but it has gotten better).

This depends on the province.  Here in QC, you can go to a private radiology clinic for x-rays, ultrasounds, or MRIs, if you don't like the wait at the hospital.  They also allow some same-day orhtopedic surgeries to occur at private clinics, if you have the cash (or private insurance)



The UK also has private health insurance and private hospitals for those who want it. Generally they get you faster treatment for non urgent stuff and nicer rooms and better food. The quality of the treatment is no different, and many times will use the very same hospitals, doctors, surgeons and equipment.
Not many people bother buying private healthcare, even though it costs far less than buying insurance in the US. Most people are perfectly happy with the NHS.
 
2014-01-14 11:54:45 PM  
Do they have to wait around for months and years to even get in though?

I've a friend in New Zealand who needed gall bladder surgery. Their system is like Europe/Canada's. They declared her issue to be non-life threatening and the poor girl had to sit around for almost 2 years suffering til it finally got to be her turn to go in. Ridiculous.
 
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