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(The Atlantic)   It is incredibly expensive to be poor   (theatlantic.com ) divider line
    More: Ironic, financial literacy, cycle of poverty, Reagan Era, social support, Bill Clinton, war on poverty, LBJ, Reform Act  
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17389 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Jan 2014 at 8:39 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-14 08:32:53 AM  
They're trying to make it illegal too
 
2014-01-14 08:41:05 AM  
Also, hip to be square.
 
2014-01-14 08:42:45 AM  
No shiat. EVERYTHING is harder. Leek to buy the big jug of ketchup because it's half the price per oz? Tough, it costs an extra dollar you ain't got. That's just for starters. You get to repeat that conversation with yourself every time you need anything, all day long.
 
2014-01-14 08:42:54 AM  
Interestingly, if you stay at the Las Vegas Rio, you'll pay about 90 dollars a night for a room, but restaurants run around 30-40 dollars on the cheap end. However, if you stay at the posh Vegas Aria, you'll pay 130 dollars a night for a much nicer room, and the restaurants are around 20 dollars for a decent meal.

What seems like a good deal at the Rio can end up costing you much more and left you with an old musty room than if you had paid a bit extra up front for luxury at the Aria.
 
2014-01-14 08:43:15 AM  
The hardest jobs with the worst work conditions pay the least.
 
2014-01-14 08:44:00 AM  
It sucks to be poor, but when we were poor we didn't even know we were poor.
 
2014-01-14 08:46:07 AM  

TaxiDriver: The hardest jobs with the worst work conditions pay the least.


And tend to be ones where you answer to the biggest assholes.
 
2014-01-14 08:47:05 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Interestingly, if you stay at the Las Vegas Rio, you'll pay about 90 dollars a night for a room, but restaurants run around 30-40 dollars on the cheap end. However, if you stay at the posh Vegas Aria, you'll pay 130 dollars a night for a much nicer room, and the restaurants are around 20 dollars for a decent meal.

What seems like a good deal at the Rio can end up costing you much more and left you with an old musty room than if you had paid a bit extra up front for luxury at the Aria.


Why not stay at the Excalibur and only pay 30 a night?
 
2014-01-14 08:47:56 AM  
So, basically the article is just an ad for her book.  While the book sounds interesting and depressing, the article is just the latter
 
2014-01-14 08:47:57 AM  
Chicken, egg.

People who can manage money properly don't stay poor.

Financial literacy should be a mandatory subject in high school.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-01-14 08:48:49 AM  
No one could accuse these "nouveau poor" Americans of having made bad choices or bad lifestyle decisions.

Someone isn't familiar with the right wing media.
 
2014-01-14 08:48:52 AM  

Chabash: AverageAmericanGuy: Interestingly, if you stay at the Las Vegas Rio, you'll pay about 90 dollars a night for a room, but restaurants run around 30-40 dollars on the cheap end. However, if you stay at the posh Vegas Aria, you'll pay 130 dollars a night for a much nicer room, and the restaurants are around 20 dollars for a decent meal.

What seems like a good deal at the Rio can end up costing you much more and left you with an old musty room than if you had paid a bit extra up front for luxury at the Aria.

Why not stay at the Excalibur and only pay 30 a night?


Because I have standards.
 
2014-01-14 08:49:03 AM  
Ah, the old Captain Samuel Vimes 'Boots' theory of socioeconomic unfairness.
 
2014-01-14 08:49:31 AM  
I'm reminded of one of Terry Pratchett's more astute observations in the Discworld - the Vimes' Boots theory of socio-economic unfairness.

The rich man can afford the most expensive boots. They're made of the best materials, by the most skilled cobblers.The rich man can get many years of comfortable walking out of them.

The poor man, on the other hand, can only afford cheap boots. They're essentially made of cardboard, they leak and they wear out quickly, which means the poor man has to buy new ones every couple of months.

Therefore, in the long run, the poor man spends more on his boots than the rich man, and he's still got wet feet.

Turns out the same principle applies in the real world, only on a much bigger scale
 
2014-01-14 08:50:10 AM  

TaxiDriver: The hardest jobs with the worst work conditions pay the least.


miners make a lot of money; so do roughnecks.
 
2014-01-14 08:50:13 AM  

wraith95: Ah, the old Captain Samuel Vimes 'Boots' theory of socioeconomic unfairness.


Shakes tiny fist
 
2014-01-14 08:50:27 AM  
Obvious tag would have been much more appropriate
 
2014-01-14 08:50:36 AM  

BMFPitt: Chicken, egg.

People who can manage money properly don't stay poor.

Financial literacy should be a mandatory subject in high school.


Yes, life is fair! Life is just! Everything is as it should be!
 
2014-01-14 08:50:40 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Interestingly, if you stay at the Las Vegas Rio, you'll pay about 90 dollars a night for a room, but restaurants run around 30-40 dollars on the cheap end. However, if you stay at the posh Vegas Aria, you'll pay 130 dollars a night for a much nicer room, and the restaurants are around 20 dollars for a decent meal.

What seems like a good deal at the Rio can end up costing you much more and left you with an old musty room than if you had paid a bit extra up front for luxury at the Aria.


The Rio has a free shuttle to the Strip.
 
2014-01-14 08:51:05 AM  
Why can't they just choose to be rich?
 
2014-01-14 08:51:14 AM  
Why we aren't doing micro-loans in the United States, I do not know. A small intercession at just the right point can break the cycle of poverty for many people (not all, though). I've seen something as small as a month's bus fare make all the difference in getting a leg up.
 
2014-01-14 08:52:21 AM  
"It requires a series of bad decisions to be poor"
 
2014-01-14 08:52:44 AM  
FTFA:

Sadly, this has become the means by which the wealthiest country in the world manages to remain complacent in the face of alarmingly high levels of poverty

What the hell does Qatar have to do with America's poor?
 
2014-01-14 08:53:55 AM  

BMFPitt: AverageAmericanGuy: Interestingly, if you stay at the Las Vegas Rio, you'll pay about 90 dollars a night for a room, but restaurants run around 30-40 dollars on the cheap end. However, if you stay at the posh Vegas Aria, you'll pay 130 dollars a night for a much nicer room, and the restaurants are around 20 dollars for a decent meal.

What seems like a good deal at the Rio can end up costing you much more and left you with an old musty room than if you had paid a bit extra up front for luxury at the Aria.

The Rio has a free shuttle to the Strip.


And sit with random strangers? LOL.
 
2014-01-14 08:54:03 AM  

ManifestDestiny: Why we aren't doing micro-loans in the United States, I do not know. A small intercession at just the right point can break the cycle of poverty for many people (not all, though). I've seen something as small as a month's bus fare make all the difference in getting a leg up.


Because the job creators can't milk 30 years worth of interest out of microloans, so its not as profitable, and that means their shareholders go into a frothing rage.. ect. ect. ect.

Basically, there's one side of equation that got theirs, and have two choice words for the rest of us.
 
2014-01-14 08:54:32 AM  

Danger Mouse: FTFA:

Sadly, this has become the means by which the wealthiest country in the world manages to remain complacent in the face of alarmingly high levels of poverty

What the hell does Qatar have to do with America's poor?


NO U!
 
2014-01-14 08:55:15 AM  
FTA: The Great Recession should have put the victim-blaming theory of poverty to rest.

No it didn't. There is a difference between temporarily using a safety net and using the safety net virtually all your life.
 
2014-01-14 08:55:44 AM  
It's been a half-century since LBJ undertook the Great Society, and in that time we've seen an ardent and zealous effort on the part of conservatives to demonize both the process and the people it tries to help. In retrospect, it is nothing more than the resurrection of attitudes held by the robber-barons and their allies at the end of the 19th Century. They fought tooth and nail to avoid having to pay the piper for building their fortunes on the backs of others. The opposition to trying to fix the causes of poverty is rooted in similar greed and the frightening prospect of losing any advantage in the imbalance of power. But unlike the populist era that was the 1890s, this time they have made frightening gains in convincing lower classes through religion and rhetoric.
 
2014-01-14 08:56:37 AM  
"We as a nation have become so wicked awesome we're beyond doing menial jobs so we're going to ship them all overseas then everyone will be much happier."

"Uh... we can't find any work and our kids are starving."

"YOU'RE NOT TRYING HARD ENOUGH!!!"
 
2014-01-14 08:56:47 AM  

Chabash: AverageAmericanGuy: Interestingly, if you stay at the Las Vegas Rio, you'll pay about 90 dollars a night for a room, but restaurants run around 30-40 dollars on the cheap end. However, if you stay at the posh Vegas Aria, you'll pay 130 dollars a night for a much nicer room, and the restaurants are around 20 dollars for a decent meal.

What seems like a good deal at the Rio can end up costing you much more and left you with an old musty room than if you had paid a bit extra up front for luxury at the Aria.

Why not stay at the Excalibur and only pay 30 a night?


And then walk across the street to NYNY and get a meal for $15.

And get coffee and a biscuit at McDonalds for breakfast for $2.
 
2014-01-14 08:58:32 AM  

soakitincider: TaxiDriver: The hardest jobs with the worst work conditions pay the least.

miners make a lot of money; so do roughnecks.


Beat me to it. I've done work on oilfields, and even new, unskilled workers can make very nice money.
 
2014-01-14 08:59:05 AM  

Chabash: AverageAmericanGuy: Interestingly, if you stay at the Las Vegas Rio, you'll pay about 90 dollars a night for a room, but restaurants run around 30-40 dollars on the cheap end. However, if you stay at the posh Vegas Aria, you'll pay 130 dollars a night for a much nicer room, and the restaurants are around 20 dollars for a decent meal.

What seems like a good deal at the Rio can end up costing you much more and left you with an old musty room than if you had paid a bit extra up front for luxury at the Aria.

Why not stay at the Excalibur and only pay 30 a night?


I stayed at the Golden Gate for $15/night for a week or so.  No "resort fee", either.  They'd just remodeled the rooms so they were pretty darn nice.

The down side it was the Golden Gate so it was only good for crashing.
 
2014-01-14 08:59:23 AM  

Kristoph57: ManifestDestiny: Why we aren't doing micro-loans in the United States, I do not know. A small intercession at just the right point can break the cycle of poverty for many people (not all, though). I've seen something as small as a month's bus fare make all the difference in getting a leg up.

Because the job creators can't milk 30 years worth of interest out of microloans, so its not as profitable, and that means their shareholders go into a frothing rage.. ect. ect. ect.

Basically, there's one side of equation that got theirs, and have two choice words for the rest of us.


You're correct and I feel really weird that the thought didn't even occur to me before posting.  I grew up poor in West Virginia and so I know how it goes from experience.Living in pinko-liberal-socialist-space-muffin Norway for a decade has ruined my thought processes.
 
2014-01-14 08:59:32 AM  
It' not an either/or situation. Some people are poor because of bad luck. However, there are also a lot of people who are poor as a direct result of their terrible decisions. If you are struggling financially, but you choose to spend your money on smoking, drinking or all the latest electronics etc, I don't have much sympathy for you.
 
2014-01-14 09:00:11 AM  

KeatingFive: No shiat. EVERYTHING is harder. Leek to buy the big jug of ketchup because it's half the price per oz? Tough, it costs an extra dollar you ain't got. That's just for starters. You get to repeat that conversation with yourself every time you need anything, all day long.


That is a great example of bad financial decisions.

Choosing to spend $1 early on, or just not having ketchup for a week or two, would have saved lots of money down the line.
 
2014-01-14 09:01:09 AM  

here to help: "We as a nation have become so wicked awesome we're beyond doing menial jobs so we're going to ship them all overseas then everyone will be much happier."

"Uh... we can't find any work and our kids are starving."

"YOU'RE NOT TRYING HARD ENOUGH!!!"


No, you are not DOING hard enough.  I am sure you're trying your little hearts out. Good job on having kids, though.
 
2014-01-14 09:03:00 AM  

BMFPitt: KeatingFive: No shiat. EVERYTHING is harder. Leek to buy the big jug of ketchup because it's half the price per oz? Tough, it costs an extra dollar you ain't got. That's just for starters. You get to repeat that conversation with yourself every time you need anything, all day long.

That is a great example of bad financial decisions.

Choosing to spend $1 early on, or just not having ketchup for a week or two, would have saved lots of money down the line.


You are correct, for the wrong reasons. The correct choice here would be to NOT BUY THE KETCHUP.
 
2014-01-14 09:04:04 AM  
Conversely, the richer you are, the more stuff gets given to you for free. As I've increased in income over the years, that's something I've noticed. Especially financial industry businesses give all kinds of incentives and breaks just for having more money (you can argue that there are "reasons" for this, but the effect is that it's much cheaper to bank/invest/get loans/insurance if you have more money). I can only imagine how much free crap gets given to the people who are REALLY wealthy (their job benefits alone dwarf most salaries, if they work at all).
 
2014-01-14 09:04:25 AM  
If a creditor decides to get nasty, a court summons may be issued, often leading to an arrest warrant.

Um, no.

Unless you struck or threatened the creditor, or purposefully wrote a worthless check, or broke some other law.

You cannot be arrested for bad debt.
 
2014-01-14 09:04:44 AM  

BMFPitt: KeatingFive: No shiat. EVERYTHING is harder. Leek to buy the big jug of ketchup because it's half the price per oz? Tough, it costs an extra dollar you ain't got. That's just for starters. You get to repeat that conversation with yourself every time you need anything, all day long.

That is a great example of bad financial decisions.

Choosing to spend $1 early on, or just not having ketchup for a week or two, would have saved lots of money down the line.


There is actually some research that shows that rich people have more ability to think abstractly about money and objects and can delay gratification for a greater payoff later. The flip side of that research shows that poor people have poor impulse control and will take the immediate gratification option which ends up hurting them later.

It seems to be a learned behavior, and your ketchup point tells the story succinctly. The rich person will wait until he has enough to buy the larger bottle. The poor person won't wait and will buy the smaller bottle.
 
2014-01-14 09:04:55 AM  
"A broken headlight invites a ticket, plus a fine greater than the cost of a new headlight, and possible court costs. If a creditor decides to get nasty, a court summons may be issued, often leading to an arrest warrant. No amount of training in financial literacy can prepare someone for such exigencies"

No amount of training can prepare you for such surprising exspenses as car repairs of repaying a loan?!?!?!
 
2014-01-14 09:05:49 AM  

Uisce Beatha: So, basically the article is just an ad for her book.  While the book sounds interesting and depressing, the article is just the latter


Does she think the poors can afford her book?

Poor people that have no transportation shop at the closest store and usually pay much more for things. Also, homeless and staying in a motel it's microwave food and expensive laundromat when you get bedbugs.

Yogimus: "It requires a series of bad decisions to be poor"


F*ck that.

KeatingFive: No shiat. EVERYTHING is harder. Leek to buy the big jug of ketchup because it's half the price per oz? Tough, it costs an extra dollar you ain't got. That's just for starters. You get to repeat that conversation with yourself every time you need anything, all day long.


True; also there is no place to store the larger, more economical items or stock up on sale items.

/been there
 
2014-01-14 09:06:06 AM  

ManifestDestiny: Why we aren't doing micro-loans in the United States, I do not know. A small intercession at just the right point can break the cycle of poverty for many people (not all, though). I've seen something as small as a month's bus fare make all the difference in getting a leg up.


http://www.prosper.com/
 
2014-01-14 09:06:39 AM  
Meh, a have a foolproof strategy involving scratch and win bingo cards and selling my organs to fall back on should times ever get really tough.

/$10,000 a kidney means I can make $100,000 a year, easy
//they grow back, right?
 
2014-01-14 09:08:08 AM  

miss diminutive: Meh, a have a foolproof strategy involving scratch and win bingo cards and selling my organs to fall back on should times ever get really tough.

/$10,000 a kidney means I can make $100,000 a year, easy
//they grow back, right?


No. You're thinking about toes. I doubt anyone's going to pay you 10k for a toe, though.
 
2014-01-14 09:08:30 AM  
I'm proud to be part of an organization attempting to break this cycle:   http://www.azearntolearn.org/

First program of it's kind in the nation, incredible first year success, Executive Director speaks in front of Congress next month...  Wish us luck!
 
2014-01-14 09:10:13 AM  

BMFPitt: KeatingFive: No shiat. EVERYTHING is harder. Leek to buy the big jug of ketchup because it's half the price per oz? Tough, it costs an extra dollar you ain't got. That's just for starters. You get to repeat that conversation with yourself every time you need anything, all day long.

That is a great example of bad financial decisions.

Choosing to spend $1 early on, or just not having ketchup for a week or two, would have saved lots of money down the line.


Except grocery stores do this with everything. Ketchup might be a bad example, but the same goes for rice and beans or anything else. It's more economical to buy the larger size, but the poor generally don't have the money to do so. So in the end they actually end up paying more for food than richer people.
 
2014-01-14 09:10:29 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: No. You're thinking about toes. I doubt anyone's going to pay you 10k for a toe, though.


bananascoop.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-01-14 09:11:25 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: miss diminutive: Meh, a have a foolproof strategy involving scratch and win bingo cards and selling my organs to fall back on should times ever get really tough.

/$10,000 a kidney means I can make $100,000 a year, easy
//they grow back, right?

No. You're thinking about toes. I doubt anyone's going to pay you 10k for a toe, though.


www.cinemas-online.co.uk
 
2014-01-14 09:11:54 AM  
You two are adorbs.
 
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