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(North Jersey)   The indoor mall is dead. Long live the open air mall that mimics urban shopping streets   (northjersey.com) divider line 82
    More: Interesting, North Jersey, shopping centers, shopping district, ShopperTrak, Bass Pro Shops, developers, National Retail Federation, data breach  
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1657 clicks; posted to Business » on 13 Jan 2014 at 8:30 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-13 06:25:06 PM  
Polar vortex would like to speak with you.
 
2014-01-13 07:01:39 PM  
I've seen something like that in Dallas. Finding parking is a nightmare.
 
2014-01-13 07:46:55 PM  

flucto: Polar vortex would like to speak with you.


So would Tucson and Phoenix. Christ, the Tempe Marketplace is miserable in the summer. You have to scurry from store to store to enjoy the air conditioning, and you can forget about sitting your ass in a chair outside if it's not shaded.
 
2014-01-13 08:01:34 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: So would Tucson and Phoenix. Christ, the Tempe Marketplace is miserable in the summer. You have to scurry from store to store to enjoy the air conditioning, and you can forget about sitting your ass in a chair outside if it's not shaded.


God invented the indoors for a reason.
 
2014-01-13 08:09:02 PM  
Whatever.  As long as something replaces the unholy concept of factory outlet stores, moats of parking, with major thoroughfares through the middle.  Short of making every one of the stores drive-thru, you couldn't make a shopping experience less walkable if you tried.
 
2014-01-13 08:18:10 PM  
It's a great idea, if parking is easy and the weather is a perfect 72 degrees year round with no rain.
 
2014-01-13 08:32:27 PM  
My local mall upped the rents last year and the place is still packed.

Except for Sears, of course.
 
2014-01-13 08:33:31 PM  
Quite dead indeed

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-01-13 08:34:56 PM  
I want to do my Christmas shopping outdoors in miserable weather.
 
2014-01-13 08:36:15 PM  
t1.gstatic.com
If outside is so good, why has mankind spent thousands of years trying to perfect inside?
 
2014-01-13 08:37:23 PM  
Newberry Street?
 
2014-01-13 08:38:34 PM  
I think there are a few things going on here. 1. That dude builds open air shopping centers so of course he is going to say that. 2. The mixed use centers aren't necesarilynecessarily the best places to shop, but we have seen more users want shopping by where they live and work so you get an opportunity to boost residential and office rents when you combine them with retail. 3. The internet just kicked the shiat out of most retail. Retail in general sucks. The users left are the big boys that want to pay for the newest and best locations. Right now that tends to be these places.
 
2014-01-13 08:38:57 PM  
You can declare something dead all you want but the malls around me would beg to differ. Out door malls suck.
 
2014-01-13 08:39:30 PM  
I don't know about nationally, but our local indoor mall is certainly stone dead.  The larger stores like Sears, etc, are hanging in there, but the entire interior is full of locked-down former storefronts and has been for probably a decade or more.  Then again, the entire town isn't doing much better.
 
2014-01-13 08:40:52 PM  

Relatively Obscure: I don't know about nationally, but our local indoor mall is certainly stone dead.  The larger stores like Sears, etc, are hanging in there, but the entire interior is full of locked-down former storefronts and has been for probably a decade or more.  Then again, the entire town isn't doing much better.


Most of the money in rents are in those inside spaces. That's a pretty good indicator on the health of the mall.
 
2014-01-13 08:41:49 PM  
Wow, back to the original open air malls of the 1950's. Ironic.
 
2014-01-13 08:44:42 PM  
payload93.cargocollective.com 

It works for The Shops at La Cantera in San Antonio.... unless its raining.
 
2014-01-13 08:46:29 PM  
The indoor mall industry has been undergoing massive consolidation since the late 90s, but it won't completely die at least in the larger cities.
 
2014-01-13 08:47:03 PM  
The new Oldsmobiles are in early this year.

/ this place has got everything
 
2014-01-13 08:47:10 PM  

Dinobot:  

It works for The Shops at La Cantera in San Antonio.... unless its raining.


We have one or two of these in Seattle.If they're built with awnings its actually not horrible, and the one in Kent has a nice fireplace.
 
2014-01-13 08:50:21 PM  

Shostie: I've seen something like that in Dallas. Finding parking is a nightmare.


I've lost hair trying to park at Firewheel in Garland and the one in Flowermound.
 
2014-01-13 09:04:45 PM  
uh..plaza?
 
2014-01-13 09:05:27 PM  

MFAWG: Dinobot:  

It works for The Shops at La Cantera in San Antonio.... unless its raining.

We have one or two of these in Seattle.If they're built with awnings its actually not horrible, and the one in Kent has a nice fireplace.


At least Seattle doesnt reach 110 degrees in summer.
 
2014-01-13 09:06:55 PM  

unyon: Whatever.  As long as something replaces the unholy concept of factory outlet stores, moats of parking, with major thoroughfares through the middle.  Short of making every one of the stores drive-thru, you couldn't make a shopping experience less walkable if you tried.


The one my friend used to work at is a pain.  The walkway is a giant, crooked 8 (or a crooked penis, according to one person who looked at hte map) with nothing at the north end.  The problem is, the parking is only on 3 sides, and there's no entrances inside said loops of the 8's.  Just at the top, middle and bottom.  If you have to get to, say, something in the back dead center of an 8-loop you're in for a hike no matter what.  And that's before you get into the whole "WTF are you thinking having an outdoor outlet mall in the middle of farking New Hampshire??" angle.

\still better than the one in Wrentham that's got something like 6 paths to the one long-assed back walkway
 
2014-01-13 09:08:13 PM  
Where I live in Redmond, WA, our mail downtown mall is like this because some idiot decided that it would be a good idea to build an open air mall in a place where 6 months out of the year it is gloom, rainy, and cold, including the time of year that the majority of shopping is done. The mall does decent business, and it is a nice place to go in summer, but all the good stores are in the indoor malls just down the road in Bellevue, probably because that is where all the shoppers are.
 
2014-01-13 09:11:03 PM  
These things exist only to trick people that don't want to go to a mall.
 
2014-01-13 09:12:23 PM  
Easton in Columbus OH.

Amazing place. I only go there for le chocoholique and to play Ingress
 
2014-01-13 09:13:08 PM  
The main trouble is if you want people to go to the mall then you need to give them a REASON to go. This is my local mall:
- clothing
- shoes
- cell phones
- jewelry
- food

And that covers 90%+ of everything in every store. No bookstore. Never had a cinema. Stationary store, toy store, and Suncoast Video are all long gone. Arcade is, of course, very long gone. Nothing is left to even be bothered to go window shopping. The only two stores of note is Gamestop and Dick's Sporting Goods. Unless you specifically need to go to one of those two then going to the mall is a complete waste of time.

The other trouble, kinda indirectly mentioned, is the old shopping district on Main Street. When the Malls went into their ascendancy in the 70's, much of what was there shifted from there to the malls. At the time, Main Street was probably two lanes at 30 MPH. Today that same Main Street is mostly boarded up (if it's still there) and the Street is now a 6 lane Highway at 45 MPH. No one is stopping to shop because no one has done so in the past 20 years... we all went to the mall.

So now the malls have become boring and bland places not worth going to and Main Street is long since broken and abandon. Whom ever comes up with the next 'IT' place that isn't Main Street or The Mall will become instant billionaires.

And as great as places like Amazon are, there's something to be said for being able to pick something up and simply touch it.
 
2014-01-13 09:16:00 PM  
Outdoor malls are loved by the same people who prefer to live on a grid of identical homes with postage stamp lots on converted flat farmland. It's the "new" is better mentality.
 
2014-01-13 09:21:31 PM  
Unless you like overpriced women's clothes and lousy food, there's no reason to go to a mall, no matter what format it's presented in.
 
2014-01-13 09:25:22 PM  

DigitalCoffee: No bookstore


I really miss the bookstores. Are books really that obsolete that no one wants to go to a bookstore anymore? Just going to a bookstore and browsing is like completely gone? Same with Blockbuster finally dying. No one misses going to a video store and browsing for movies? I'm hardly an old fart technophobe, I'm a software developer and motion graphics guy. I just miss that shiat.

/old man rant over
 
2014-01-13 09:28:21 PM  

DigitalCoffee: The main trouble is if you want people to go to the mall then you need to give them a REASON to go. This is my local mall:
- clothing
- shoes
- cell phones
- jewelry
- food


Let me guess, you are not a woman.
Cuz, trust me -- all that above is plenty for them.
 
2014-01-13 09:28:24 PM  

bluenovaman: Shostie: I've seen something like that in Dallas. Finding parking is a nightmare.

I've lost hair trying to park at Firewheel in Garland and the one in Flowermound.


Go on
 
2014-01-13 09:32:03 PM  
This is becoming the rage in Maryland. They're tacking on these outdoor "avenue" shopping areas to existing malls (White Marsh, Columbia) or just making it outdoor to begin with (Hunt Valley). Great on a lovely day, but miserable otherwise. Same crap in each place though.
 
2014-01-13 09:34:30 PM  
They're great until it's hot or cold or rainy.  Then they suck.

/Palo Alto one would be nice except that because it's Palo Alto, you can't get there because of all the traffic.
//And because it's all rich Asian people, they don't have clothing in my size and that's ALL they have.
 
2014-01-13 09:43:48 PM  
These are for people who want to experience "urban downtown" shopping without having to deal with a real downtown experience.
 
2014-01-13 09:45:15 PM  

Mugato: I really miss the bookstores. Are books really that obsolete that no one wants to go to a bookstore anymore?


I've got bookstores.  Just none in a mall.  One actually completely took over the interior of a former small indoor mall.

/one large B&N, one large independent, two large Half Price Books (99% used), and at least a couple small independents and college stores all within 30 minutes even in the worst of traffic
 
2014-01-13 09:49:48 PM  

12349876: Mugato: I really miss the bookstores. Are books really that obsolete that no one wants to go to a bookstore anymore?

I've got bookstores.  Just none in a mall.  One actually completely took over the interior of a former small indoor mall.


Yeah, there's still a Barnes n Noble but there used to be two in every mall. And the independent book/comic book store I used to go to as a kid is closed. Sucks.
 
2014-01-13 09:54:41 PM  

meyerkev: /Palo Alto one would be nice except that because it's Palo Alto, you can't get there because of all the traffic.


Stanford Shopping Center was great when I was a kid, but it turned to crap over the years as all the interesting stores were replaced with generic clothing chains. (Which shouldn't be too much of a surprise given that Victoria's Secret started there.)
 
2014-01-13 09:54:52 PM  

wxboy: These are for people who want to experience "urban downtown" shopping without having to deal with a real downtown experience.


And for those who want to get in and get out of one store asap.
 
2014-01-13 10:03:29 PM  
This is what the Garden State Plaza mall looked like when I was a kid

4.bp.blogspot.com

The same view today

media.northjersey.com

I liked the old mall better.
 
2014-01-13 10:11:36 PM  

Mugato: DigitalCoffee: No bookstore

I really miss the bookstores. Are books really that obsolete that no one wants to go to a bookstore anymore? Just going to a bookstore and browsing is like completely gone? Same with Blockbuster finally dying. No one misses going to a video store and browsing for movies? I'm hardly an old fart technophobe, I'm a software developer and motion graphics guy. I just miss that shiat.

/old man rant over


Me, too. My favourite thing when I was younger was to go to the bookstore and just hang out amongst the rows of beautiful books for hours. They had big, comfy leather chairs in there, too, so you could sit and read without having to buy anything.

Anyway, they probably realized that that wasn't making them any money, because they've replaced about half the books with home decor bullshiat and useless tchotchkes. They also put in a Starbucks so you can look smug bathed in the blueish glow of your laptop screen after a long and tiring struggle to find the most minimalist vase. A struggle that was further complicated by the fact that Pier 1 is literally next door.

They can keep their cheap wine glasses and bemusing salad tongs. I'm buying from Amazon from now on.
 
2014-01-13 10:27:02 PM  

MrEricSir: meyerkev: /Palo Alto one would be nice except that because it's Palo Alto, you can't get there because of all the traffic.

Stanford Shopping Center was great when I was a kid, but it turned to crap over the years as all the interesting stores were replaced with generic clothing chains. (Which shouldn't be too much of a surprise given that Victoria's Secret started there.)


Yeah, it's just not the same as it was back in the 80s and 90s before everything went high-end. They even had a cookie shop which was a magnet for kids like me whose mothers dragged them out shopping.
 
2014-01-13 10:27:03 PM  
It doesnt matter how you build a mall. Nobody is going to shop there unless they have disposable income.
 
2014-01-13 10:37:25 PM  

quickdraw: It doesnt matter how you build a mall. Nobody is going to shop there unless they have disposable income.


==============

Yup.  I hear a lot of brick and mortar retailers complaining about how they are being driven out of biz by the net, but the net is only part of their problem.    Lots of people have no spare cash left over at the end of the week, hell, some people don't have enough money for gas to get to the mall.
 
zez
2014-01-13 10:40:02 PM  

Fissile: This is what the Garden State Plaza mall looked like when I was a kid

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 640x423]

The same view today

[media.northjersey.com image 850x677]

I liked the old mall better.



Outdoor malls can be great if designed properly. When I was a kid we had Northwest Plaza in St. Louis which for a long was time the largest shopping center in the world. The way it was laid out iwas like walking through a park and you never were out in "the open" for long unless you wanted to be. Of course they enclosed it in the 80s and it all went to shiat and now they're tearing it down.
 
2014-01-13 10:42:26 PM  

flucto: Polar vortex would like to speak with you.


Six months of winter would like to speak with you too.
 
2014-01-13 10:54:58 PM  
Newberry Street in Boston

You don't know it? It's right next to Bossten Commen.
 
2014-01-13 10:55:18 PM  
Why not both?

Town Center Mall has a main entrance on Church Street here in Burlington.
 
2014-01-13 11:02:38 PM  
www.boulderdowntown.com
www.boulderareabicycleadventures.com
yourboulder.com
media-cdn.tripadvisor.com

Pearl Street Mall, Boulder CO.
 
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