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(Quartz)   The most generous company in Silicon Valley is Juniper Networks which pays an average of $160K ea. to its employees; which has outraged a hedge fund so much they have bought part of the company to try to force it to pay workers less   (qz.com) divider line 107
    More: Asinine, Juniper Networks, Silicon Valley  
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6261 clicks; posted to Geek » on 13 Jan 2014 at 5:11 PM (13 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-13 05:10:23 PM
And with 6.6% of the shares, they'll have such an easy time of it. I'd love to see Juniper announce a stock buyback, and only buyback the hedge fund's shares.
 
2014-01-13 05:17:41 PM

WhyteRaven74: And with 6.6% of the shares, they'll have such an easy time of it. I'd love to see Juniper announce a stock buyback, and only buyback the hedge fund's shares.


Yeah, it sounds like they're pushing with string there.
 
2014-01-13 05:18:21 PM
lol @ Walmart's average base salary at $122K
 
2014-01-13 05:20:00 PM
the company's "excessive" spending on research and development.

Because research never, ever, pays off.
 
2014-01-13 05:23:26 PM

minuslars: lol @ Walmart's average base salary at $122K


This is why good statistics post both the median and average of a set of values, typically with some +/- deviation on the average.
 
2014-01-13 05:23:29 PM
Walmart's average base salary at $122K? Why are they always complaining?
 
2014-01-13 05:23:39 PM
Wall Street wonders why we hate them so much.  The company is making money, just not as much as the street would like so it wants to dictate policy?  Who do they think they are?  Carl Icahn?
 
2014-01-13 05:25:05 PM

abhorrent1: Walmart's average base salary at $122K? Why are they always complaining?


You realize that's only for Software Engineers right?
 
2014-01-13 05:25:59 PM

minuslars: lol @ Walmart's average base salary at $122K


I noticed that too.  Are they sure that chart isn't what employees wish they could earn?
 
2014-01-13 05:27:32 PM

Telos: abhorrent1: Walmart's average base salary at $122K? Why are they always complaining?

You realize that's only for Software Engineers right?


Hmm, so it is.  My eyes glanced over that bit in the corner for some reason.
 
2014-01-13 05:28:47 PM
Can we kill the vulture capitalists yet?
 
2014-01-13 05:29:38 PM
"Among Elliot's biggest complaints is the company's "excessive" spending on research and development. In a presentation to investors, the fund cites Juniper's generous salaries to support its claim that the company spends too much."

i.imgur.com
 
2014-01-13 05:31:25 PM
Ah Wall Street, where the share price and dividend return is more important than a sustainable business practice...fark you...I've got mine.
 
2014-01-13 05:32:14 PM
"Among Elliot's biggest complaints is the company's "excessive" spending on research and development. "

And how, precisely, was that your farking problem before you bought those shares????
 
2014-01-13 05:34:18 PM
I really like Juniper products. That's all I can add to this conversation. The end.
 
2014-01-13 05:35:33 PM
Elliot wants Juniper to cut costs by $200 million a year as well as streamlining its disparate portfolio of products, and returning up to $3.5 billion in cash to shareholders through buybacks and dividends.

Yeah.

So this hedge fund is going to get all the money it paid into the corporation so it could develop products.

Nah, they're going to steal all that wealth created by employees who actually did something for the company.

Robber barons. And we celebrate these thieves but not the engineers and other employees who created the company. They're just monkeys in polyester.
 
2014-01-13 05:38:58 PM

Smoking GNU: "Among Elliot's biggest complaints is the company's "excessive" spending on research and development. "

And how, precisely, was that your farking problem before you bought those shares????


It wasn't. He saw an opportunity to force a company to pay its people less and kill R&D spending to line his pockets more.


guestguy: "Among Elliot's biggest complaints is the company's "excessive" spending on research and development. In a presentation to investors, the fund cites Juniper's generous salaries to support its claim that the company spends too much."


3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-01-13 05:39:18 PM
So...wait. I have an idea, fellow Farkers:

Suppose we raised enough cash to buy out a financial services company and do this same thing? "We've got this financial services company, and the execs are making out like bandits, but the peoples' returns are nowhere near the 'caviar-and-hookers'-sphere yet. So howzabout we start reducing some of those salaries - take 'em down to no more than $5m/year, say - and make this thing really hum (like, eliminate fees. Or better returns for customers, who you're nominally in business to serve)?"

All we need is a few lousy hundred-millions. Who's with me?
 
2014-01-13 05:44:28 PM
Isn't this also to keep people from pointing at Juniper Networks and saying, "Hey! Why can't we have a little of that?"

Can't have any company treating its workers better. Then workers at other companies might get ideas.

See: CostCo.
 
2014-01-13 05:46:07 PM
That totally sucks balls.  I wish we could do something to stop these assholes.
 
2014-01-13 05:47:57 PM

Modulistic: I really like Juniper products. That's all I can add to this conversation. The end.


I on the other hand hate their firewalls.

/that is all
 
2014-01-13 05:48:28 PM
Such assholes...
 
2014-01-13 05:57:21 PM
They're not wrong.

If Juniper is competing for talent against the likes of Cisco, and Cisco pays $110k/year, is it really going to make a difference to a candidate if Juniper offers $160k or $130k?
 
2014-01-13 05:57:55 PM
Juniper's eating Cisco's lunch and these farkers want them to stop investing heavily in research?

Pound sand with your 6.2%.

If I was a betting person, I'd think they were trying to buy in to force them to tank by doing something stupid, just so they could short the everliving Jebus out of Juniper's stock.
 
2014-01-13 05:59:57 PM
and this is why i strongly hate the current mind set of today's investor, quick returns over long term growth.
 
2014-01-13 06:06:11 PM
I'd like these surveys to exclude the top executive salaries when computing the average.  One over paid CEO can complete fark the numbers.
 
2014-01-13 06:12:00 PM

gnosis301: That totally sucks balls.  I wish we could do something to stop these assholes.


Last I checked, hardware stores still keep pitchforks in stock.

As for the torches, I'd suggest soaking some rolls of tp in kerosene

but to get this thing trending with the whippersnappers, perhaps we sell this as an "eRiot" and everyone can tape their iPhones running flashlight apps to the ends of sticks?

grimlock1972: and this is why i strongly hate the current mind set of today's investor, quick returns over long term growth.


Don't worry, this will all work itself out.

It will involve millions starving while those who wrecked the system ride it out comfortably in their mansions, behind very high walls.

But it will work itself out.
/It always does.
 
2014-01-13 06:13:14 PM

TheShavingofOccam123: Robber barons. And we celebrate these thieves but not the engineers and other employees who created the company. They're just monkeys in polyester.


Yet some wonder how people get jaded with corporate America, wall street, consumerism, and capitalism in general...

/Gordon Gecko and J.R. Ewing were my father's heroes
//he was never much of a father and i haven't spoken to him in years
 
2014-01-13 06:23:59 PM

TheShavingofOccam123: Elliot wants Juniper to cut costs by $200 million a year as well as streamlining its disparate portfolio of products, and returning up to $3.5 billion in cash to shareholders through buybacks and dividends.

Yeah.

So this hedge fund is going to get all the money it paid into the corporation so it could develop products.

Nah, they're going to steal all that wealth created by employees who actually did something for the company.

Robber barons. And we celebrate these thieves but not the engineers and other employees who created the company. They're just monkeys in polyester.


Wasn't there an article not too long ago about how Costco's shareholders were pushing them to drop salaries as well - as Costco pays way better than stores like WalMart.

Costco responded with something to the effect of sometimes the profits you're making are enough, and you don't need to screw your workers over to squeeze out more.
 
2014-01-13 06:24:03 PM

poot_rootbeer: They're not wrong.

If Juniper is competing for talent against the likes of Cisco, and Cisco pays $110k/year, is it really going to make a difference to a candidate if Juniper offers $160k or $130k?


Well shiat, if we can drive up the price per share a couple points by gutting the company why not do it? Hedge fund managers got to eat too.
 
2014-01-13 06:24:16 PM

WhyteRaven74: And with 6.6% of the shares, they'll have such an easy time of it. I'd love to see Juniper announce a stock buyback, and only buyback the hedge fund's shares.


They are the third largest shareholder of Juniper Networks. They have a /lot/ of pull at that percentage.
 
2014-01-13 06:25:12 PM
Yeah how dare you treat employes like people. You should have them beaten in the fields like serfs and crush their will. And I am sure any tech company that is worth its salt knows that the best thing to do is cut R&D how would that ever help the bottom line?
 
2014-01-13 06:25:12 PM
I don't know that Ellliott Management's claims that Juniper is overspending on R&D have much basis, but they do have a point that Juniper's software engineers make a lot more money than many of their contemporaries. Juniper software engineers on average make 17% more than those at LinkedIn (#2 on the list), and over 37% more than the average salary of the top 25 companies. There may be very good reasons for this (Juniper wants to retain top talent, has more senior/fewer junior engineers, whatever), of course.
 
2014-01-13 06:31:54 PM

organizmx: TheShavingofOccam123: Elliot wants Juniper to cut costs by $200 million a year as well as streamlining its disparate portfolio of products, and returning up to $3.5 billion in cash to shareholders through buybacks and dividends.

Yeah.

So this hedge fund is going to get all the money it paid into the corporation so it could develop products.

Nah, they're going to steal all that wealth created by employees who actually did something for the company.

Robber barons. And we celebrate these thieves but not the engineers and other employees who created the company. They're just monkeys in polyester.

Wasn't there an article not too long ago about how Costco's shareholders were pushing them to drop salaries as well - as Costco pays way better than stores like WalMart.

Costco responded with something to the effect of sometimes the profits you're making are enough, and you don't need to screw your workers over to squeeze out more.


That sounds entirely unamerican to me.
 
2014-01-13 06:33:57 PM

Voiceofreason01: Well shiat, if we can drive up the price per share a couple points by gutting the company why not do it?


Who said anything about 'gutting the company'?

I'm talking about paying above-market salaries instead of way-above-market salaries.
 
2014-01-13 06:36:19 PM

poot_rootbeer: They're not wrong.

If Juniper is competing for talent against the likes of Cisco, and Cisco pays $110k/year, is it really going to make a difference to a candidate if Juniper offers $160k or $130k?



Hahaha.  That is a true 'average' for Cisco.  Not median or mode.  Their individual contributors get much less.  Their management, even at the 1st tier has a huge jump in salary and compensation compared to the non-suits that out-number them.  Of course since they have moved about a third of their workforce to outsourced body shops and India, there are fewer people left to complain and they keep their heads down.
 
2014-01-13 06:37:36 PM
So paying higher that standard salaries only works when you need a CEO, not piddly engineers who design the products that have made your company successful. Got it.

/We are so farked
 
2014-01-13 06:37:58 PM
...and this is why you never go public if you can avoid it.
 
2014-01-13 06:40:13 PM
So a highly successful company making cutting edge technology because of aggressive R&D is doing it wrong?
 
2014-01-13 06:40:38 PM

poot_rootbeer: Voiceofreason01: Well shiat, if we can drive up the price per share a couple points by gutting the company why not do it?

Who said anything about 'gutting the company'?

I'm talking about paying above-market salaries instead of way-above-market salaries.


You want top tier talent you pay top tier wages. Besides market wage isn't necessarily indicative of what you need to pay in order to keep competent people since large companies like Cisco drag the averages down. I haven't done any research to validate my theory but this looks A LOT like a money grab by the Hedge Fund.
 
2014-01-13 06:41:49 PM

SN1987a goes boom: Telos: abhorrent1: Walmart's average base salary at $122K? Why are they always complaining?

You realize that's only for Software Engineers right?

Hmm, so it is.  My eyes glanced over that bit in the corner for some reason.


The team that does walmart.com is in the Bay Area.


Glassdoor salaries are self-reported, so not statistically valid.
 
2014-01-13 06:46:15 PM

clear_prop: Glassdoor salaries are self-reported, so not statistically valid.


This.

Based on the numbers, not very many engineers over 30 are using glassdoor.com (which is unsurprising)
 
2014-01-13 06:46:24 PM

Voiceofreason01: poot_rootbeer: They're not wrong.

If Juniper is competing for talent against the likes of Cisco, and Cisco pays $110k/year, is it really going to make a difference to a candidate if Juniper offers $160k or $130k?

Well shiat, if we can drive up the price per share a couple points by gutting the company why not do it? Hedge fund managers got to eat too.


It won't stop there. This is common place now. Over the next few years they will most likely eliminate "redundant" positions (a lot of people will be doing much more work for the same pay)then eliminate "unnecessary" positions, trim benefits, trim or cut perks, no raises, trim more benefits, then pay cuts.
 
2014-01-13 06:49:26 PM

TheShavingofOccam123: Elliot wants Juniper to cut costs by $200 million a year as well as streamlining its disparate portfolio of products, and returning up to $3.5 billion in cash to shareholders through buybacks and dividends.

Yeah.

So this hedge fund is going to get all the money it paid into the corporation so it could develop products.

Nah, they're going to steal all that wealth created by employees who actually did something for the company.

Robber barons. And we celebrate these thieves but not the engineers and other employees who created the company. They're just monkeys in polyester.


There's nothing intrinsically wrong with stock buybacks.  They're mostly good most of the time because stock dilution is actually a bad thing.
 
2014-01-13 06:49:56 PM

Dr Dreidel: So...wait. I have an idea, fellow Farkers:

Suppose we raised enough cash to buy out a financial services company and do this same thing? "We've got this financial services company, and the execs are making out like bandits, but the peoples' returns are nowhere near the 'caviar-and-hookers'-sphere yet. So howzabout we start reducing some of those salaries - take 'em down to no more than $5m/year, say - and make this thing really hum (like, eliminate fees. Or better returns for customers, who you're nominally in business to serve)?"

All we need is a few lousy hundred-millions. Who's with me?


I'm in, just don't fire off the Kickstarter until I win the Powerball

/must remember to buy ticket
 
2014-01-13 06:50:50 PM
nyseattitude:It won't stop there. This is common place now. Over the next few years they will most likely eliminate "redundant" positions (a lot of people will be doing much more work for the same pay)then eliminate "unnecessary" positions, trim benefits, trim or cut perks, no raises, trim more benefits, then pay cuts.

Shiat, it's already almost impossible to find a full time job in retail anymore. A lot of min. wage and near min. wage people work 2-3 part time jobs just to make ends meet and it's creeping up the totem pole.
 
2014-01-13 07:03:13 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2014-01-13 07:04:26 PM
Can the usual Koch suckers stop by and explain to us again just why the Job Creators® pay less tax on their capital gains than the people who actually do the work pay on their salaries?  And why the Job Creators® need moar tax cuts?
 
2014-01-13 07:06:24 PM
So this hedge fund has been aggresively buying up shares of a company where it doesn't like their business practices?

There's more to this story because, in general, if an investor doesn't like the business practices of a company, the investor doesn't buy their stock.
 
2014-01-13 07:06:28 PM
$160k a year in Silicone Valley is middle class.
 
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