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(Washington Examiner)   Crack conservative sleuth discovers employer-subsidized health plans can be cheaper than plans on the ACA Exchanges. Up next, that big orange thing in the sky, does it really provide light and heat?   (washingtonexaminer.com) divider line 36
    More: Dumbass, obamacare, Walmart, Families USA, Betsy McCaughey, Blue Cross Blue Shield, Illinois State, JAMA, health savings account  
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985 clicks; posted to Politics » on 13 Jan 2014 at 2:05 PM (35 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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2014-01-13 01:34:28 PM
6 votes:
OK  - I had trouble loading that web page, but I think from what little I could see, that it was comparing available Wal-Mart employee plans to the exchange.  Well that is not the comparison.  See the problem is that a large number of their workforce is not eligible for company benefits such as that.  I read in several articles last year where in several states Wal-Mart employees lead other working poor in receiving Medicaid.

So the comparison is not between the Wal-Mart plan and the exchange but between nothing and the exchange.  I mean, you could take the Wal-Mart CEO's salary and say that Wal-Mart's pay is far above the national average income, so they pay their workers enough.

Am I missing something here?
2014-01-13 02:09:51 PM
5 votes:
It's almost like the law was made for people with no access to employer provided health insurance.
2014-01-13 03:28:17 PM
3 votes:

Satanic_Hamster: skyotter: lennavan: Obama promised I could keep my doctor if I liked him.But then my doctor retired.WTF OBAMA WHY U LIEZ?

I recently heard this from my elderly father, without a hint of irony.

Right now, EVERYTHING medical related people are using Obama as an excuse/thing to blame.   Apparently no doctor ever retired before Obama.



I liken the entire Obama presidency like this:
It's the bottom of the 7th, and the American Nationals pitcher GW Bush has so far done a pretty shiatty job in the game, down by 6-1 against the Corporate Warhawks. Obama asked to be brought in as relief, with the well-documented quote "Put me in coach, I can win the game!" The manager of the Nationals, one I.M. Public decides to give it a try, since it can't get any worse. Obama goes in and starts pitching a solid game, but unfortunately the shortstop is Beohner and the first baseman is McConnell, both of which refuse to give any effort to turn the game around, missing easy catches and throwing the ball wildly to teammates. When batting, Cruz insists on bunting and Ryan pops up to the catcher. So, the Nationals lose by 6-5, and we see the right side of the stands throwing bottles of beer at Obama shouting, "You lied to us! You said you could win the game!"
2014-01-13 02:22:45 PM
3 votes:

SlothB77: Democrats have been telling us all this time that we have substandard employer plans and insurance companies are pulling one over on us.

Also, democrats have been telling us all this time that Wal Mart offers substandard benefits and screws over their employees.

And the truth?  Wal Mart offers a better health plan at a lower cost than TheOnebamacare.


but hey, government can't amass more control and power if everyone is on Wal Mart's plan.  So, you gotta demonize them.



Its hard to compare. The numbers provided in the article are misleading. They compare healthcare.gov unsubsidized prices to Walmarts subsidized prices. Then they compare a local BlueChoice network (which does suck, I've used bluechoice before), that covers only 28 Hospitals in the Upper East Coast, which is where their provider network exist. If you are traveling they WILL cover ER services anywhere.
Walmart which uses a National network covers 54 Hospitals in the ENTIRE US. That is arguably less hospital coverage per city than BlueChoice I'd be willing to bet.  I assume Walmart also covers traveling emergencies as well??? Either way, they are comparing a local network to a national network for non emergency hospital treatment??
2014-01-13 02:13:29 PM
3 votes:

SlothB77: Also, democrats have been telling us all this time that Wal Mart offers substandard benefits and screws over their employees.

And the truth?  Wal Mart offers a better health plan at a lower cost than TheOnebamacare.


Well, to those employees who 'qualify', of course...

Funny how you(And TFA) left that part out.
2014-01-13 05:00:41 PM
2 votes:

Bareefer Obonghit: Well, to be fair, it is in Walmart's best interests to keep their chattle healthy. Free labor isn't free... or something.


They could care less about their Chattle. What the article fails to mention is Walmarts healthcare plan is only offered to FULL-TIME employees. Walmart stopped offering health insurance to part-time employees (working less than 30 hours per week) in 2013.  If some poor sob is lucky enough to land 40 permanent hours a week, he/she must work at least  six months before being eligible to purchase the company's primary health insurance.    How many full-time employees does Walmart really have relative to the Part-time employees (which are funded by the tax payer) again?
2014-01-13 03:34:10 PM
2 votes:

Danger Mouse: Did we ever find out how much did that Mumbai trip cost?


Probably about the same as any American president visiting a foreign country. Did we ever get any substantial evidence that the trip cost significantly more than that, besides claims that were proven to be baseless? Better yet, do these rhetorical questions ever hold water when you compare the answer to them to what the answer would be regarding any previous president during his administration?"

Are you ever not "just asking questions" and trying to get into pedantic pissing matches?
2014-01-13 03:06:21 PM
2 votes:

Rootus: And SlothB77 completely owns shiats all over this thread.  10/10!


ftfy
2014-01-13 02:35:37 PM
2 votes:
http://www.fark.com/comments/8090052/88581287#c88581287

I asked a week ago when this stupid "study" would get traction.

Took a bit longer than I thought.


But HRA's ==== insurance to morons.
2014-01-13 02:23:42 PM
2 votes:

SlothB77: Democrats have been telling us all this time that we have substandard employer plans and insurance companies are pulling one over on us.


Good points. Let's force all companies to provide insurance for workers so they don't have to be on Obamacare!!

You're for that then right?
2014-01-13 02:22:26 PM
2 votes:

TNel: SlothB77: Democrats have been telling us all this time that we have substandard employer plans and insurance companies are pulling one over on us.

Come again?  That has never been the selling point.  The point is people that are not eligible for health care and yes insurance companies and doctors/hospitals are pulling one over us.  You think it truely costs $10 a pill for tyenol in the ER?


Forget it, Jake. He's dumber than a box of hair.
2014-01-13 02:17:51 PM
2 votes:
What are the odds that Walmart's plan was as cheap as it currently is and covered as much as it currently does BEFORE the ACA?
2014-01-13 02:17:47 PM
2 votes:
Shocking.  A group health plan that your employer pays part of the costs for may cost you less than an individual plan where you have to pay the whole amount yourself.
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-01-13 02:09:18 PM
2 votes:
SlothB77:

but hey, government can't amass more control and power if everyone is on Wal Mart's plan.  So, you gotta demonize them.

You have a point.  Who wants to be enslaved by the government like those poor oppressed Canadians?
2014-01-13 02:08:55 PM
2 votes:

SlothB77: Democrats have been telling us all this time that we have substandard employer plans and insurance companies are pulling one over on us.

Also, democrats have been telling us all this time that Wal Mart offers substandard benefits and screws over their employees.

And the truth?  Wal Mart offers a better health plan at a lower cost than TheOnebamacare.


but hey, government can't amass more control and power if everyone is on Wal Mart's plan.  So, you gotta demonize them.


So we call all sign up for Walmart's plan?
2014-01-13 02:07:08 PM
2 votes:

SlothB77: Democrats have been telling us all this time that we have substandard employer plans


It's nice to just make things up
2014-01-13 10:57:21 AM
2 votes:
Nope.  not clicking on a site run by a Presbyterian church who wants to talk to me about the macroeconomics of health care.
2014-01-13 09:58:33 PM
1 votes:

theknuckler_33: SlothB77: Moosecakes: SlothB77: Democrats have been telling us all this time that we have substandard employer plans

It's nice to just make things up

Actually, the proper term was 'craptastic'.

Or sometimes 'shiatty'.

but no, you never ragged on those plans Obamacare canceled.  Never at all.

So you say "employer plans" and then link to stories about individual plans and expect people not to notice?


I don't think Sloth was trying to trick anyone, he just didn't know the difference himself.
2014-01-13 05:26:15 PM
1 votes:

Bender The Offender: TNel: SlothB77: Democrats have been telling us all this time that we have substandard employer plans and insurance companies are pulling one over on us.

Come again?  That has never been the selling point.  The point is people that are not eligible for health care and yes insurance companies and doctors/hospitals are pulling one over us.  You think it truely costs $10 a pill for tyenol in the ER?

You think providers have any say in how much you're charged for a pill? You farking idiot.


Actually they do.  My provider happened to misplace my insurance information so they sent me the 'real' bill for a visit and some tests.  The tab came in at just under $1000.  Several phone calls and 2 weeks later, the bill the insurance company paid was under $80.
So providers will charge whatever the FARK they want but insurance companies have a cap on what they will pay for each individual procedure.  This is the reason so many people had those crappy insurance plans, while they didn't have any actual insurance they put you on the insurance company's pay scale so your bill was less than 10% of what it would be without the plan.
2014-01-13 04:47:20 PM
1 votes:
Wait, why are they comparing employer SUBSIDIZED health plans to individual UNSUBSIDIZED plans?
2014-01-13 04:15:29 PM
1 votes:

TNel: Bender The Offender: You think providers have any say in how much you're charged for a pill? You farking idiot.

What?  How can you even get that when the talk was about price fixing from insurance companys and doctors?  The doctors inflate the cost of the pill knowing they will settle for a smaller amount.  Why go in saying "Hey this pill only cost me 1 cent" when you can say it costs $10 and then say "Ok I'll settle for $2 I guess".  Providers do have a say it's what the acceptable amount is and it's usually based off of medicare.    Some insurance pays more some pay less and the doctors will "eat" the cost.  Don't you look at your statements from the insurance company?  It clearly shows that you were billed X, insurance will only pay for Y, doctors office eats the rest.


I can't tell if you're trying for Pocket Ninja-style satire, or if that was just the stupidest farking thing I read today.
2014-01-13 04:05:48 PM
1 votes:

Bloody William: MrSplifferton: Bloody William: MrSplifferton: ikanreed: MrSplifferton: Why can't I pay for my ACA insurance with pre tax dollars?

/RAGE!!!

Actually, you should be able to, huh?  That's a good point.  Have you called your congressperson?

Add to that allowing employees to take their companies contribution to the health exchange.

Then, if you lose your job you don't lose your entire health network because your new company has a different health plan.

I'd actually really like that. I have employer-subsidized health coverage, and while it's great in terms of premiums I'd still love to have my own choices regarding how I'm covered beyond the few provided.

The exchange in my state has 90 plans to choose from. If I were full time I would only have 3 choices.

I'm stuck with Cigna, which already cost me some money by making me use the deductible last year, before all this stuff went into place, because a specialist who worked really well with me wasn't in-network. As it is, I'm finding another specialist, but I need to go through the irritation of finding one that works well for me (I decided the last year was a transitional period in terms of the specialist, since my deductible was already half-paid by the time I got the numbers back, so I ate the cost).


I had one of those garbage insurance plans that recruiting companies used to offer. For example, one medication was $180 generic, my prescription plan discounted it by 80...cents.

Medication for my wife (mental illness) and kids (eczema) cost about $1000/month. Now I pay 666/month premium and $10 for generic rx. Also out of pocket max is 1500/3000, which is a third of the oop for full time employees at my job.
2014-01-13 03:42:04 PM
1 votes:

ikanreed: MrSplifferton: Why can't I pay for my ACA insurance with pre tax dollars?

/RAGE!!!

Actually, you should be able to, huh?  That's a good point.  Have you called your congressperson?


Add to that allowing employees to take their companies contribution to the health exchange.

Then, if you lose your job you don't lose your entire health network because your new company has a different health plan.
2014-01-13 03:13:10 PM
1 votes:

Needlessly Complicated: Print'sNotDead: Had to borrow this from another Farker, but it needs to be here.

I, for one, am glad *that's* over.

I'm sure someone's already said this (long thread) but the Dems should have never caved on the public option.

/single payer would be better


The public option wasn't removed to make the bill more palatable to Republicans, it was removed to make the bill more palatable to Democrats because the Blue Dogs weren't on board with a public option. I agree that the public option would be a better policy, but the choice wasn't between the ACA with public option and the ACA with no public option. The choice was ACA with no public option or no ACA at all.
2014-01-13 03:06:26 PM
1 votes:

Print'sNotDead: Had to borrow this from another Farker, but it needs to be here.


I, for one, am glad *that's* over.

I'm sure someone's already said this (long thread) but the Dems should have never caved on the public option.

/single payer would be better
2014-01-13 02:44:57 PM
1 votes:

SlothB77: Democrats have been telling us all this time that we have substandard employer plans


FoxNews has been telling you that Democrats have been telling us.....  there, better.
2014-01-13 02:29:35 PM
1 votes:
I remember reading some posts from creation scientists that say that life could not have evolved on Earth because it would require some kind of external energy source.  This suggests that they believe that the big orange thing in the sky doesn't provide light and heat.
2014-01-13 02:28:19 PM
1 votes:

colon_pow: I heard that all non-obamacare plans were crap.


No, that never happened.
2014-01-13 02:28:01 PM
1 votes:

SlothB77: Democrats have been telling us all this time that we have substandard employer plans and insurance companies are pulling one over on us.

Also, democrats have been telling us all this time that Wal Mart offers substandard benefits and screws over their employees.

And the truth?  Wal Mart offers a better health plan at a lower cost than TheOnebamacare.


but hey, government can't amass more control and power if everyone is on Wal Mart's plan.  So, you gotta demonize them.


In fairness to Sloth, some of the employer plans have been substandard, fortunately those employers who offered these substandard plans no longer can offer them and claim a tax break for them (I think they still can offer them but the disincentive of making them non deductible as well as next year hitting the employer with a fine if they have more than 50 employees will cause most of these plans to disappear).The truth is that to it's executives Walmart may offer better health care, to the peons stocking the shelves I think Walmart is happy to let the employees qualify for Medicade.
2014-01-13 02:24:04 PM
1 votes:

SlothB77: And the truth? Wal Mart offers a better health plan at a lower cost than TheOnebamacare.


I do not live near a WalMart that is hiring and I currently do not work for them, can I still buy a plan through them?

You cannot be this stupids, please for the love of all that is holy tell me you see the flaw in your logic.
2014-01-13 02:22:33 PM
1 votes:

The Most Uninteresting Man in the World: What are the odds that Walmart's plan was as cheap as it currently is and covered as much as it currently does BEFORE the ACA?


Actually I'd be pretty certain Walmart's insurance plan was excellent before the ACA. After all, you want to retain middle managers and above, and they're the ones who work enough hours to merit health insurance. The issue isn't the quality of insurance offered by the largest employer in the country, it's the percentage of employees who qualify for that coverage, and that remains very small compared to overall staffing.
2014-01-13 02:22:30 PM
1 votes:
Had to borrow this from another Farker, but it needs to be here.img.fark.net
2014-01-13 02:22:07 PM
1 votes:

Mikey1969: SlothB77: Also, democrats have been telling us all this time that Wal Mart offers substandard benefits and screws over their employees.

And the truth?  Wal Mart offers a better health plan at a lower cost than TheOnebamacare.

Well, to those employees who 'qualify', of course...

Funny how you(And TFA) left that part out.


Further more, this is what the premium is that an individual pays. Walmart is subsidizing a not-insignificant portion of the entire premium, which allows them to offer a plan at a reasonable price.
Also, they can offer cheaper plans because they have a HUGE pool that they can provide to an insurance company. Give the exchanges time (years here people) and as the insurers figure out the risk pools, etc., rates may very well drop. The reason that the ACA plans are so expensive initially is due to uncertainty, which insurance companies absolute HATE.
2014-01-13 02:20:48 PM
1 votes:

SlothB77: Democrats have been telling us all this time that we have substandard employer plans and insurance companies are pulling one over on us.


Come again?  That has never been the selling point.  The point is people that are not eligible for health care and yes insurance companies and doctors/hospitals are pulling one over us.  You think it truely costs $10 a pill for tyenol in the ER?
2014-01-13 02:09:19 PM
1 votes:
So we should repeal ObamaCare because it's too expensive, and replace it with a law that says everyone must have employer-provided health insurance, and then we can watch as the savings roll in!

We good now?

// or we could have everyone in the same risk pool (with a "deep-pockets" end for the richers to have gold-plated orthodontia) and make everyone insured by virtue of the OMGTAXES they pay...
2014-01-13 01:59:25 PM
1 votes:
Democrats have been telling us all this time that we have substandard employer plans and insurance companies are pulling one over on us.

Also, democrats have been telling us all this time that Wal Mart offers substandard benefits and screws over their employees.

And the truth?  Wal Mart offers a better health plan at a lower cost than TheOnebamacare.


but hey, government can't amass more control and power if everyone is on Wal Mart's plan.  So, you gotta demonize them.
 
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