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(Independent)   Ye Olde England, where criminals use ye olde guns   (independent.co.uk) divider line 32
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8927 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Jan 2014 at 12:31 AM (37 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2014-01-12 11:39:41 PM
3 votes:
2.bp.blogspot.com
wut guns?
2014-01-13 11:45:27 AM
2 votes:

theDesertHamster: ransack.: Feed_The_Walrus: x23: Mock26: What a load of crap.  Everyone knows that there is no gun crime in the United Kingdom.  Their strict gun laws eliminated all gun crime.  Duh.

i dunno... "900 incidents a year in which a weapon is actually fired or brandished" in a country of 63.23 million seems like a significant reduction in gun crime. feel like comparing those numbers to the US? i'd guess we hit 900 in a week.

One problem with UK gun statistics is that I never know how they've compiled their numbers.  Gun crime in the UK includes BB guns, air rifles, replicas, anything where a reasonable person would believe that there was a gun or would feel threatened.  I heard ont he radio last week that armed police only discharged their firearms in 3 incidents in the last year, I think it's a total of 5 shots (and a couple of them were probably dogs)

In the United Kingdom, annual firearm homicides total 

2011: 38
2010: 33
2009: 26
2008: 40
2007: 15
2006: 61
2005: 38
2004: 36
2003: 29
2002: 39
2001: 38
2000: 71
1999: 45
1998: 33
1997: 45
1996: 84

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-kingdom

Yeah but machetes are flying everywhere and I'd rather be shot

Yes, we have a bit over twice as many deaths via knives as we do by guns. However, our total homicides are currently about 700-730 per year for the whole country. That's a death rate per 100,000 that's a quarter of the US total. 1.2 vs 4.7

As a UK gun ownner and user, I'm pretty happy with the laws we have regarding certification of weapons. For a shotgun license, you apply and the local firearms officer will come and talk to you to assess you and your application. They also check out your storage capacity too, i.e. the number of weapons your lockable cabinet can hold. If you buy (each sale is logged via the police by the seller) more than you can store in that cabinet, you can expect a visit from the police and a possible fine/revocation of your license.


It's a pity that the rest of your crime rates are a trainwreck compared to the US.
2014-01-13 09:29:09 AM
2 votes:

edmo: 9,555 gun offences in a year? Isn't that like a long weekend in Chicago? Yup, gun control would never work.


Historically, the UK has had a low crime rate even before they had any significant gun control.

They passed their first real significant gun control law, the one the current laws are largely based upon, in 1920 not out of fear of crime, but out of fear of a Bolshevik-style revolution in the UK.
2014-01-13 08:12:10 AM
2 votes:

ZeroCorpse: I'd be okay with it if our "right to bear arms" only covered flintlocks, wheel locks, muzzle-loaders, etc. That would be fine. If you want to stock up on weapons that take 2 minutes to load, more power to you.


OK, then you're only allowed to use your voice, a parchment and quill pen, or a manual printing press to express your opinions.
2014-01-13 06:56:41 AM
2 votes:

The One True TheDavid: One big problem with antique firearms is they use bullets that are uncommon and expensive when you can find them. E.g., ammoseek.com can't find any 7.5mm swiss ordnance ammo. Some of those weapons were apparently very accurate as well as durable, especially revolvers and bolt-action rifles.


http://www.gunbot.net/ammo/rifle/75swiss/ Going for 52 cents a round right now. Not too bad, those are .308 prices. Chances are that even if there isn't surplus in your obscure caliber, Prvi Partizan is making some new manufacture.
2014-01-13 02:08:22 AM
2 votes:

ZeroCorpse: I'd be okay with it if our "right to bear arms" only covered flintlocks, wheel locks, muzzle-loaders, etc. That would be fine. If you want to stock up on weapons that take 2 minutes to load, more power to you. Same goes for gangs. I'd probably be able to accept a world where gangs are armed with nothing more dangerous than a blunderbuss (which ain't exactly harmless, but isn't going to do much after the single shot).

My problem with modern firearms is the ability to fire so many bullets with so little effort, and the ease with which they are reloaded. If you have a guy hold you up with a flintlock, you have a chance to kick his ass if you can make him miss his only shot.

Yeah, sure, some gangs would have gatling guns, but that would just make it kind of hilarious to watch gangbangers pushing the thing around and feeding ammo into it.

I think the world would be better if all weapons were downgraded to those of 1680s pirates.


For a very long time (like, until the advent of rifling long, and even then...) the most powerful force on the battlefield was not the firearm. Not even artillery, although if used well it was immensely effective. No, the most powerful force on the battlefield was the blade. From pikes to shanks. Bangers wouldn't bother with muskets. They'd let you take your one inaccurate shot, then they'd gut you. Firearms are a great leveling force that allows the weaker to stand against the strong. Now instead of couching this idea in silly notions of tyranny and resistance, let's talk law enforcement. The smart cop is a modern invention. Before guns, what good was a cop who could think, if he couldn't go toe-to-toe with the thugs? Firearms are a risk, yes, but they have a measurable level of good they contribute to society that the blade cannot match. Liberalism and the Enlightenment owe their existence to the firearm. Remove them, and we'll be back to feudalism in too short a time.
2014-01-14 12:09:38 AM
1 votes:

dj_spanmaster: ArcadianRefugee: wildcardjack: belhade: This can mean only one thing:

Time-traveling murderer!

Very Dirk Gently, but their time travelers were a cat and murder victim.

What does Molly Quinn have to do with Dirk Gently?

[www.hawtcelebs.com image 425x552]

You were just looking for a reason to post her picture. Not that I'm complaining.


I'd dirk her, but not gently.
2014-01-13 02:02:57 PM
1 votes:

dittybopper: washington-babylon: Cap-and-ball guns (reproductions) can be purchased at most sporting goods stores in the U.S.

You can buy them through the mail, shipped to your door, no questions asked.


And I should point out a couple things:

1. You can convert Remington-style revolvers into cartridge guns by just swapping out the cylinder, and

2. You can quickly reload even a cap-and-ball Remington style revolver by dropping the loading lever, pulling the cylinder pin forward, popping out the fired cylinder, popping in a fresh loaded cylinder, pushing the cylinder pin back, and bringing the loading lever up.

Takes more time to explain it than to actually do it, once you get the hang of it.
2014-01-13 01:40:35 PM
1 votes:

Diebesbeute: ZeroCorpse: Diebesbeute: Diebesbeute: Pribar: Several truck drivers I know carry cap and ball revolvers (usually repro Remingtons) because many states prohibit firearms in commercial vehicles but most states classify cap and ball revolvers as relics and not firearms (NY, Massachusetts, and California classify em as firearms and prohibit them in commercial vehicles the last I checked). Getting shot with a .44 cal cap and ball pistol will kill ya just as dead as a modern .44 will.

Cap and ball "revolver"? Are you the author of the news story as well?

My apologies! I've learned something new. I did not realize they made those back in the day. Sorry!

Not a fan of westerns, are you?

Apparently not.  I'm not sure why, but I had always assumed that cap and ball were only single shot.

I was trying to comment on how the reporter had several little errors in the story (referring to the slug itself as a cartridge, etc etc).  All I ended up doing was showing off my own ignorance.  So, Score!?  Again, Sorry Pribar.


For further reference on the cap-and-ball revolver and its effectiveness look up Wild bill Hickok, William "Buffalo Bill" Cody. Both men used Cap-and-Ball guns long after cartridge guns were available. A personal favorite of mine is the LeMat Revolver. Because the only way to make 9 shots of .36 or .44 caliber lead balls more effective in a handgun is to add a 20 Gauge shotgun barrel to the mix.

/Cap-and-ball guns (reproductions) can be purchased at most sporting goods stores in the U.S.
2014-01-13 01:06:58 PM
1 votes:

demaL-demaL-yeH: So? I want a trillion US dollars tax free.
It.
Won't.
Farking.
Happen.


If so, please start with trying for $100 tax free. If you get that, go for $1000.  If you get that try for $10,000 and so on.

At any time you get rejected, scream "WHY WON'T YOU COMPROMISE??????"
2014-01-13 12:51:12 PM
1 votes:

demaL-demaL-yeH: Dimensio: netwiz: It's a pity that the rest of your crime rates are a trainwreck compared to the US.

Do you not recognize that homicide (and other violent crimes) are more acceptable when committed without a firearm?

[writingishard.files.wordpress.com image 850x1275]


You are correct; my statement was a "strawman", and was not in any way based upon the fact that firearm regulation extremists cite "gun murder" statistics when comparing nations, rather than overall "murder" statistics, in an effort to exaggerate the higher rate of homicide in the United States of America. Similarly, my statement is not all related to a history of citing "gun suicide" statistics rather than overall "suicide" statistics to hide the fact that the suicide rate of the United States of America is not substantially higher than that of other developed nations (and in fact that it is lower than several nations).
2014-01-13 12:41:08 PM
1 votes:

demaL-demaL-yeH: Like we did when I was a kid?
Peachy.

But every Swingin' Richard and Whistlin' Wendy legally resident in the US becomes a militia member at 16 - enrolled, sworn (or affirmed), medically and mentally screened, regularly trained, weapon qualified, and has arms and ammo inspected, and subject to the UCMJ for (mis)use of militia arms.


Such requirements would change the 'Right to Bear Arms' into a 'Privilege to Bear Arms'.  Many of these would likely be arbitrary and capricious limitations on this right.  Not to mention that you would need to reverse the Heller decision.
2014-01-13 12:21:41 PM
1 votes:

demaL-demaL-yeH: Bro, what am I trying to ban?


Nobody knows who the fark you are, and nobody cares, so basically, whether or not you want to ban something is irrelevant, because some people do in fact want to bans guns, or certain subsets thereof, and you *KNOW* that.

Mandatory firearm training for everybody sixteen and over who is not encumbered by law, mental illness, or conscience. I want a real milita instead of some disorganized, poorly-led lardass paranoiacs running around in the woods.

Maybe we could make it part of the high school curriculum.  Like driver's ed.  Cover basic firearm safety, and basic marksmanship.
2014-01-13 12:16:20 PM
1 votes:

dittybopper: demaL-demaL-yeH: dittybopper: mbillips: Saw an ad in Shotgun News awhile back. Somebody was taking antique (pre-1898) bolt-action magazine rifles, rechambering them for modern ammo (7.62 NATO) and selling them while emphasizing how they were untraceable and legal for felons to own. Never underestimate the avarice of assholes.

I think the real concern there is in getting firearms that aren't "on paper", because firearms that the government doesn't know you have can't be confiscated.

Whether you believe confiscation is likely or not, a sizable minority of the gun owning population in the US sees it as a real possibility, and they are planning for it.

Gullibility, stupidity, and paranoia should never be encouraged.

Then stop trying to ban shiat.  Don't give them any possible evidence that they are right.  Stop talking about further restrictions on guns.  That'll take the wind out of their sails.

Remember, that paranoia didn't just happen.  It's a *REACTION*, not an action.


Bro, what am I trying to ban?
Mandatory firearm training for everybody sixteen and over who is not encumbered by law, mental illness, or conscience. I want a real milita instead of some disorganized, poorly-led lardass paranoiacs running around in the woods.
2014-01-13 11:06:27 AM
1 votes:

dittybopper: mbillips: Saw an ad in Shotgun News awhile back. Somebody was taking antique (pre-1898) bolt-action magazine rifles, rechambering them for modern ammo (7.62 NATO) and selling them while emphasizing how they were untraceable and legal for felons to own. Never underestimate the avarice of assholes.

I think the real concern there is in getting firearms that aren't "on paper", because firearms that the government doesn't know you have can't be confiscated.

Whether you believe confiscation is likely or not, a sizable minority of the gun owning population in the US sees it as a real possibility, and they are planning for it.


Those individuals are paranoid lunatics, because absolutely no one in the United States of America has ever advocated firearm confiscation.

Also, just because some people have advocated firearm confiscation does not mean that those who fear confiscation are not lunatics, because none of those advocates are elected officials.

And just because some elected officials have advocated firearm confiscation does not mean that those who are concerned of firearm confiscation are not paranoid, because not every single gun control advocate, without exception, is advocating confiscation.
2014-01-13 10:47:22 AM
1 votes:

mbillips: Saw an ad in Shotgun News awhile back. Somebody was taking antique (pre-1898) bolt-action magazine rifles, rechambering them for modern ammo (7.62 NATO) and selling them while emphasizing how they were untraceable and legal for felons to own. Never underestimate the avarice of assholes.


I think the real concern there is in getting firearms that aren't "on paper", because firearms that the government doesn't know you have can't be confiscated.

Whether you believe confiscation is likely or not, a sizable minority of the gun owning population in the US sees it as a real possibility, and they are planning for it.
2014-01-13 10:40:31 AM
1 votes:

mbillips: Saw an ad in Shotgun News awhile back. Somebody was taking antique (pre-1898) bolt-action magazine rifles, rechambering them for modern ammo (7.62 NATO) and selling them while emphasizing how they were untraceable and legal for felons to own. Never underestimate the avarice of assholes.


Not all felons are created equal, either.  For instance, Martha Stewart is a felon.  So is Tim Allen.

I don't think I'd feel particularly worried if either of them had an old rebarreled Mauser for, say, deer hunting.

I think the prohibition should be against those convicted of a *VIOLENT* felony from purchasing a firearm.   I don't see a real big societal interest in keeping non-violent felons from owning guns for lawful purposes.  Traditionally, felonies were almost all crimes of violence, with a few exceptions, but today, there are so many different crimes that are now counted as felonies that don't have the actual use or threat of violence, that it's a pretty poor proxy for keeping guns out of the hands of those who shouldn't have them.

It's the "Bo and Luke Duke" syndrome:  You commit a non-violent felony, and you're condemned to spend your life hunting deer from Dodge Charger, using dynamite tipped arrows from your compound bows.
2014-01-13 09:43:18 AM
1 votes:

mbillips: Saw an ad in Shotgun News awhile back. Somebody was taking antique (pre-1898) bolt-action magazine rifles, rechambering them for modern ammo (7.62 NATO) and selling them while emphasizing how they were untraceable and legal for felons to own. Never underestimate the avarice of assholes.


I found the man placing those ads...

img.fark.net
2014-01-13 09:04:33 AM
1 votes:

edmo: 9,555 gun offences in a year? Isn't that like a long weekend in Chicago? Yup, gun control would never work.


An island of 60m people is clearly the same as a country of 320m people with the explicit right to military weaponry.
2014-01-13 07:57:24 AM
1 votes:

Shirley Ujest: belhade: This can mean only one thing:

Time-traveling murderer!

What flick, please.


Castle.
/TV show.
//Come for the brown coat.
///Stay for the ginger.
2014-01-13 07:44:11 AM
1 votes:

ransack.: Feed_The_Walrus: x23: Mock26: What a load of crap.  Everyone knows that there is no gun crime in the United Kingdom.  Their strict gun laws eliminated all gun crime.  Duh.

i dunno... "900 incidents a year in which a weapon is actually fired or brandished" in a country of 63.23 million seems like a significant reduction in gun crime. feel like comparing those numbers to the US? i'd guess we hit 900 in a week.

One problem with UK gun statistics is that I never know how they've compiled their numbers.  Gun crime in the UK includes BB guns, air rifles, replicas, anything where a reasonable person would believe that there was a gun or would feel threatened.  I heard ont he radio last week that armed police only discharged their firearms in 3 incidents in the last year, I think it's a total of 5 shots (and a couple of them were probably dogs)

In the United Kingdom, annual firearm homicides total 

2011: 38
2010: 33
2009: 26
2008: 40
2007: 15
2006: 61
2005: 38
2004: 36
2003: 29
2002: 39
2001: 38
2000: 71
1999: 45
1998: 33
1997: 45
1996: 84

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-kingdom

Yeah but machetes are flying everywhere and I'd rather be shot


Yes, we have a bit over twice as many deaths via knives as we do by guns. However, our total homicides are currently about 700-730 per year for the whole country. That's a death rate per 100,000 that's a quarter of the US total. 1.2 vs 4.7

As a UK gun ownner and user, I'm pretty happy with the laws we have regarding certification of weapons. For a shotgun license, you apply and the local firearms officer will come and talk to you to assess you and your application. They also check out your storage capacity too, i.e. the number of weapons your lockable cabinet can hold. If you buy (each sale is logged via the police by the seller) more than you can store in that cabinet, you can expect a visit from the police and a possible fine/revocation of your license.
2014-01-13 05:07:01 AM
1 votes:

x23: Mock26: What a load of crap.  Everyone knows that there is no gun crime in the United Kingdom.  Their strict gun laws eliminated all gun crime.  Duh.

i dunno... "900 incidents a year in which a weapon is actually fired or brandished" in a country of 63.23 million seems like a significant reduction in gun crime. feel like comparing those numbers to the US? i'd guess we hit 900 in a week.


One problem with UK gun statistics is that I never know how they've compiled their numbers.  Gun crime in the UK includes BB guns, air rifles, replicas, anything where a reasonable person would believe that there was a gun or would feel threatened.  I heard ont he radio last week that armed police only discharged their firearms in 3 incidents in the last year, I think it's a total of 5 shots (and a couple of them were probably dogs)

In the United Kingdom, annual firearm homicides total 

2011: 38
2010: 33
2009: 26
2008: 40
2007: 15
2006: 61
2005: 38
2004: 36
2003: 29
2002: 39
2001: 38
2000: 71
1999: 45
1998: 33
1997: 45
1996: 84

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-kingdom

2014-01-13 04:02:14 AM
1 votes:

GentlemanJ: I'll be happy to have an Enfield .303 from 1914, as long as it's in good condition. Fast, accurate, and deadly. What more can you ask for?


2 chicks at the same time.

/lock stock and 2 smoking barrels and office space are great movies.
HKW
2014-01-13 02:51:48 AM
1 votes:

ZeroCorpse: I think the world would be better if all weapons were downgraded to those of 1680s pirates.


Here in Vietnam, a 'gang' will ride up to you on your 'fancy' bike, stab you in your liver as they shove you off the bike, and ride away to the vietnam-verison-of-pawn-stars to cash in..

you need to think dynamically my friend.  Having a myopic knee-jerk dislike for 'modern' weapons, and ridding them, doesnt make the world any safer than it already is.
2014-01-13 02:14:06 AM
1 votes:
i.imgur.com

Not all old weapons are obsolete.
2014-01-13 01:52:41 AM
1 votes:
I'd be okay with it if our "right to bear arms" only covered flintlocks, wheel locks, muzzle-loaders, etc. That would be fine. If you want to stock up on weapons that take 2 minutes to load, more power to you. Same goes for gangs. I'd probably be able to accept a world where gangs are armed with nothing more dangerous than a blunderbuss (which ain't exactly harmless, but isn't going to do much after the single shot).

My problem with modern firearms is the ability to fire so many bullets with so little effort, and the ease with which they are reloaded. If you have a guy hold you up with a flintlock, you have a chance to kick his ass if you can make him miss his only shot.

Yeah, sure, some gangs would have gatling guns, but that would just make it kind of hilarious to watch gangbangers pushing the thing around and feeding ammo into it.

I think the world would be better if all weapons were downgraded to those of 1680s pirates.
2014-01-13 01:51:28 AM
1 votes:
What a load of crap.  Everyone knows that there is no gun crime in the United Kingdom.  Their strict gun laws eliminated all gun crime.  Duh.
2014-01-13 01:19:15 AM
1 votes:
Vintage ammo can be reproduced, all thats is needed is a single unfired round it better to have a few rounds though, but with an unfired round they can make molds for the slugs  then study and measure the casing writing down carefully checked measurements to allow casings to be reproduced.   Measure the powder charge in the vintage bullet then your golden so long as you have skills and equipment to make and load your own bullets.

Mind i have no clue what the regulations in the UK are on ammo reloading equipment.
2014-01-13 12:44:43 AM
1 votes:
This can mean only one thing:

Time-traveling murderer!

static4.wikia.nocookie.net
2014-01-13 12:42:34 AM
1 votes:
The old England, as opposed to the new England. Which is not England at all.

/also, guinea pigs are not pigs. nor from Guinea. new or old.
2014-01-13 12:42:30 AM
1 votes:
oi50.tinypic.com
2014-01-12 09:44:45 PM
1 votes:
One big problem with antique firearms is they use bullets that are uncommon and expensive when you can find them. E.g., ammoseek.com can't find any 7.5mm swiss ordnance ammo. Some of those weapons were apparently very accurate as well as durable, especially revolvers and bolt-action rifles.

How lucky we are in the USA to have oodles of cheap .22LR or .380 handguns around. Enterprising crooks can pay cash for them and consider them disposable, like cell phones.

By the way, to keep anybody from reading your cell phone you've got to take the SIM chip out and stomp on it and the rest of the phone really hard. Maybe smash it with a hammer. Pulverize it. Remember too that most TV shows and movies are not designed to teach people how to get away with committing crimes, and even when the crooks do win it's not advisable to pattern your crime off anything the cops or FBI can download and watch.
 
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