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(Independent)   Ye Olde England, where criminals use ye olde guns   (independent.co.uk) divider line 156
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8923 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Jan 2014 at 12:31 AM (36 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-13 03:11:22 AM

fastbow: ZeroCorpse: I'd be okay with it if our "right to bear arms" only covered flintlocks, wheel locks, muzzle-loaders, etc. That would be fine. If you want to stock up on weapons that take 2 minutes to load, more power to you. Same goes for gangs. I'd probably be able to accept a world where gangs are armed with nothing more dangerous than a blunderbuss (which ain't exactly harmless, but isn't going to do much after the single shot).

My problem with modern firearms is the ability to fire so many bullets with so little effort, and the ease with which they are reloaded. If you have a guy hold you up with a flintlock, you have a chance to kick his ass if you can make him miss his only shot.

Yeah, sure, some gangs would have gatling guns, but that would just make it kind of hilarious to watch gangbangers pushing the thing around and feeding ammo into it.

I think the world would be better if all weapons were downgraded to those of 1680s pirates.

For a very long time (like, until the advent of rifling long, and even then...) the most powerful force on the battlefield was not the firearm. Not even artillery, although if used well it was immensely effective. No, the most powerful force on the battlefield was the blade. From pikes to shanks. Bangers wouldn't bother with muskets. They'd let you take your one inaccurate shot, then they'd gut you. Firearms are a great leveling force that allows the weaker to stand against the strong. Now instead of couching this idea in silly notions of tyranny and resistance, let's talk law enforcement. The smart cop is a modern invention. Before guns, what good was a cop who could think, if he couldn't go toe-to-toe with the thugs? Firearms are a risk, yes, but they have a measurable level of good they contribute to society that the blade cannot match. Liberalism and the Enlightenment owe their existence to the firearm. Remove them, and we'll be back to feudalism in too short a time.


I'm not entirely certain, but if memory serves correctly wasn't Napoleon the first general who used massed artillery?
 
x23
2014-01-13 03:46:17 AM

Mock26: What a load of crap.  Everyone knows that there is no gun crime in the United Kingdom.  Their strict gun laws eliminated all gun crime.  Duh.


i dunno... "900 incidents a year in which a weapon is actually fired or brandished" in a country of 63.23 million seems like a significant reduction in gun crime. feel like comparing those numbers to the US? i'd guess we hit 900 in a week.
 
2014-01-13 03:55:43 AM
Also, in the United States you can pay a nominal licensing fee, and obtain a "Curio and Relic" license.  You will then be able to have a semiautomatic rifle chambered for the same round as an AK47 to your doorstep.

Shocking, I know.

I miss my old SKS.  Looking for a nice Yugo with 'nade launcher to complement my Zastava AK.
 
2014-01-13 03:57:11 AM
I'll be happy to have an Enfield .303 from 1914, as long as it's in good condition. Fast, accurate, and deadly. What more can you ask for?
 
2014-01-13 03:59:25 AM

jso2897: ZeroCorpse: I'd be okay with it if our "right to bear arms" only covered flintlocks, wheel locks, muzzle-loaders, etc. That would be fine. If you want to stock up on weapons that take 2 minutes to load, more power to you. Same goes for gangs. I'd probably be able to accept a world where gangs are armed with nothing more dangerous than a blunderbuss (which ain't exactly harmless, but isn't going to do much after the single shot).

My problem with modern firearms is the ability to fire so many bullets with so little effort, and the ease with which they are reloaded. If you have a guy hold you up with a flintlock, you have a chance to kick his ass if you can make him miss his only shot.

Yeah, sure, some gangs would have gatling guns, but that would just make it kind of hilarious to watch gangbangers pushing the thing around and feeding ammo into it.

I think the world would be better if all weapons were downgraded to those of 1680s pirates.

Yeah, that's what we want - the Crips and the Bloods, clambering around in the riggings, slashing at one another with cutlasses.


Part of me wants to start a social experiment where we get some influential rappers to start trading in their Glocks for blinged out flintlocks and cutlasses.
 
2014-01-13 04:02:14 AM

GentlemanJ: I'll be happy to have an Enfield .303 from 1914, as long as it's in good condition. Fast, accurate, and deadly. What more can you ask for?


2 chicks at the same time.

/lock stock and 2 smoking barrels and office space are great movies.
 
2014-01-13 04:08:17 AM

ArcadianRefugee: The old England, as opposed to the new England. Which is not England at all.

/also, guinea pigs are not pigs. nor from Guinea. new or old.


Aye, right. Next you'll be telling me that pineapples aren't apples and that ham isn't really hamster meat.
 
2014-01-13 04:31:58 AM

Azlefty: You should learn about weapons, one of the major concerns for the military when going from wooden stock firearms to Plastic and polymer is that soldiers would no longer be able to bash a persons brains out with one, .There is a reason Military rifles have metal butt plates.


Bite this shiny metal butt! SCHMACK

/They should make an inverted imprint of the word 'Deleted' on it.
 
2014-01-13 05:07:01 AM

x23: Mock26: What a load of crap.  Everyone knows that there is no gun crime in the United Kingdom.  Their strict gun laws eliminated all gun crime.  Duh.

i dunno... "900 incidents a year in which a weapon is actually fired or brandished" in a country of 63.23 million seems like a significant reduction in gun crime. feel like comparing those numbers to the US? i'd guess we hit 900 in a week.


One problem with UK gun statistics is that I never know how they've compiled their numbers.  Gun crime in the UK includes BB guns, air rifles, replicas, anything where a reasonable person would believe that there was a gun or would feel threatened.  I heard ont he radio last week that armed police only discharged their firearms in 3 incidents in the last year, I think it's a total of 5 shots (and a couple of them were probably dogs)

In the United Kingdom, annual firearm homicides total 

2011: 38
2010: 33
2009: 26
2008: 40
2007: 15
2006: 61
2005: 38
2004: 36
2003: 29
2002: 39
2001: 38
2000: 71
1999: 45
1998: 33
1997: 45
1996: 84

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-kingdom

 
2014-01-13 05:57:17 AM

Feed_The_Walrus: x23: Mock26: What a load of crap.  Everyone knows that there is no gun crime in the United Kingdom.  Their strict gun laws eliminated all gun crime.  Duh.

i dunno... "900 incidents a year in which a weapon is actually fired or brandished" in a country of 63.23 million seems like a significant reduction in gun crime. feel like comparing those numbers to the US? i'd guess we hit 900 in a week.

One problem with UK gun statistics is that I never know how they've compiled their numbers.  Gun crime in the UK includes BB guns, air rifles, replicas, anything where a reasonable person would believe that there was a gun or would feel threatened.  I heard ont he radio last week that armed police only discharged their firearms in 3 incidents in the last year, I think it's a total of 5 shots (and a couple of them were probably dogs)

In the United Kingdom, annual firearm homicides total 

2011: 38
2010: 33
2009: 26
2008: 40
2007: 15
2006: 61
2005: 38
2004: 36
2003: 29
2002: 39
2001: 38
2000: 71
1999: 45
1998: 33
1997: 45
1996: 84

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-kingdom


Yeah but machetes are flying everywhere and I'd rather be shot
 
2014-01-13 06:16:02 AM

GodComplex: jso2897: ZeroCorpse: I'd be okay with it if our "right to bear arms" only covered flintlocks, wheel locks, muzzle-loaders, etc. That would be fine. If you want to stock up on weapons that take 2 minutes to load, more power to you. Same goes for gangs. I'd probably be able to accept a world where gangs are armed with nothing more dangerous than a blunderbuss (which ain't exactly harmless, but isn't going to do much after the single shot).

My problem with modern firearms is the ability to fire so many bullets with so little effort, and the ease with which they are reloaded. If you have a guy hold you up with a flintlock, you have a chance to kick his ass if you can make him miss his only shot.

Yeah, sure, some gangs would have gatling guns, but that would just make it kind of hilarious to watch gangbangers pushing the thing around and feeding ammo into it.

I think the world would be better if all weapons were downgraded to those of 1680s pirates.

Yeah, that's what we want - the Crips and the Bloods, clambering around in the riggings, slashing at one another with cutlasses.

Part of me wants to start a social experiment where we get some influential rappers to start trading in their Glocks for blinged out flintlocks and cutlasses.


Let's face it - gangsta rap and pirate-speak would dovetail perfectly. They could trick out their escalades to look like galleons, with cannons and shiat.  With a patch over one eye, they could become even worse marksmen.
It's a fantastic idea.
 
2014-01-13 06:25:12 AM

belhade: This can mean only one thing:

Time-traveling murderer!


What flick, please.
 
2014-01-13 06:47:42 AM
Well, isn't that quaint ?
 
2014-01-13 06:56:41 AM

The One True TheDavid: One big problem with antique firearms is they use bullets that are uncommon and expensive when you can find them. E.g., ammoseek.com can't find any 7.5mm swiss ordnance ammo. Some of those weapons were apparently very accurate as well as durable, especially revolvers and bolt-action rifles.


http://www.gunbot.net/ammo/rifle/75swiss/ Going for 52 cents a round right now. Not too bad, those are .308 prices. Chances are that even if there isn't surplus in your obscure caliber, Prvi Partizan is making some new manufacture.
 
2014-01-13 07:21:02 AM

The_Mad_Dutchman: Chances are that even if there isn't surplus in your obscure caliber, Prvi Partizan is making some new manufacture.


Yep, Prvi Partisan has had a ton of ammo when I couldn't find it in Remington or Winchester.  Damn, but their. 38 Spc was dirty-shooting, though.  :P
 
2014-01-13 07:22:06 AM

Feed_The_Walrus: I think it's a total of 5 shots (and a couple of them were probably dogs)


What kind of looney would give a dog a gun. Man's best friend doesn't mean man's smartest.
 
2014-01-13 07:30:03 AM

jso2897: GodComplex: jso2897: ZeroCorpse: I'd be okay with it if our "right to bear arms" only covered flintlocks, wheel locks, muzzle-loaders, etc. That would be fine. If you want to stock up on weapons that take 2 minutes to load, more power to you. Same goes for gangs. I'd probably be able to accept a world where gangs are armed with nothing more dangerous than a blunderbuss (which ain't exactly harmless, but isn't going to do much after the single shot).

My problem with modern firearms is the ability to fire so many bullets with so little effort, and the ease with which they are reloaded. If you have a guy hold you up with a flintlock, you have a chance to kick his ass if you can make him miss his only shot.

Yeah, sure, some gangs would have gatling guns, but that would just make it kind of hilarious to watch gangbangers pushing the thing around and feeding ammo into it.

I think the world would be better if all weapons were downgraded to those of 1680s pirates.

Yeah, that's what we want - the Crips and the Bloods, clambering around in the riggings, slashing at one another with cutlasses.

Part of me wants to start a social experiment where we get some influential rappers to start trading in their Glocks for blinged out flintlocks and cutlasses.

Let's face it - gangsta rap and pirate-speak would dovetail perfectly. They could trick out their escalades to look like galleons, with cannons and shiat.  With a patch over one eye, they could become even worse marksmen.
It's a fantastic idea.


You guys seen zero from OKC?
http://www.thelostogle.com/wp-content /uploads/2013/03/zero-5.jpg
 
2014-01-13 07:33:41 AM

The_Mad_Dutchman: The One True TheDavid: One big problem with antique firearms is they use bullets that are uncommon and expensive when you can find them. E.g., ammoseek.com can't find any 7.5mm swiss ordnance ammo. Some of those weapons were apparently very accurate as well as durable, especially revolvers and bolt-action rifles.

http://www.gunbot.net/ammo/rifle/75swiss/ Going for 52 cents a round right now. Not too bad, those are .308 prices. Chances are that even if there isn't surplus in your obscure caliber, Prvi Partizan is making some new manufacture.


Prvi is most of the reason I own an Paris aka in 7.7 x 58, a Nagant revolver in 7.62 x 38R, and a Chilean Mauser in 7 x 57. All were around $100 due to obscure chambering.
 
2014-01-13 07:34:21 AM

x23: Mock26: What a load of crap.  Everyone knows that there is no gun crime in the United Kingdom.  Their strict gun laws eliminated all gun crime.  Duh.

i dunno... "900 incidents a year in which a weapon is actually fired or brandished" in a country of 63.23 million seems like a significant reduction in gun crime. feel like comparing those numbers to the US? i'd guess we hit 900 in a week.


We also have roughly five times as many people, so the actual number is meaningless unless you factor in the per capita rate.  Yes, we still come out higher, but not as high as when you just compare the total number.
 
2014-01-13 07:44:11 AM

ransack.: Feed_The_Walrus: x23: Mock26: What a load of crap.  Everyone knows that there is no gun crime in the United Kingdom.  Their strict gun laws eliminated all gun crime.  Duh.

i dunno... "900 incidents a year in which a weapon is actually fired or brandished" in a country of 63.23 million seems like a significant reduction in gun crime. feel like comparing those numbers to the US? i'd guess we hit 900 in a week.

One problem with UK gun statistics is that I never know how they've compiled their numbers.  Gun crime in the UK includes BB guns, air rifles, replicas, anything where a reasonable person would believe that there was a gun or would feel threatened.  I heard ont he radio last week that armed police only discharged their firearms in 3 incidents in the last year, I think it's a total of 5 shots (and a couple of them were probably dogs)

In the United Kingdom, annual firearm homicides total 

2011: 38
2010: 33
2009: 26
2008: 40
2007: 15
2006: 61
2005: 38
2004: 36
2003: 29
2002: 39
2001: 38
2000: 71
1999: 45
1998: 33
1997: 45
1996: 84

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-kingdom

Yeah but machetes are flying everywhere and I'd rather be shot


Yes, we have a bit over twice as many deaths via knives as we do by guns. However, our total homicides are currently about 700-730 per year for the whole country. That's a death rate per 100,000 that's a quarter of the US total. 1.2 vs 4.7

As a UK gun ownner and user, I'm pretty happy with the laws we have regarding certification of weapons. For a shotgun license, you apply and the local firearms officer will come and talk to you to assess you and your application. They also check out your storage capacity too, i.e. the number of weapons your lockable cabinet can hold. If you buy (each sale is logged via the police by the seller) more than you can store in that cabinet, you can expect a visit from the police and a possible fine/revocation of your license.
 
2014-01-13 07:51:05 AM

Diebesbeute: Pribar: Several truck drivers I know carry cap and ball revolvers (usually repro Remingtons) because many states prohibit firearms in commercial vehicles but most states classify cap and ball revolvers as relics and not firearms (NY, Massachusetts, and California classify em as firearms and prohibit them in commercial vehicles the last I checked). Getting shot with a .44 cal cap and ball pistol will kill ya just as dead as a modern .44 will.

Cap and ball "revolver"? Are you the author of the news story as well?


It's a perfectly cromulent description.  It describes the ammunition:  A lead ball as a projectile, and a percussion cap as an ignition source for the loose powder or powder pellet used as a propellant (either black powder, or a BP substitute like Pyrodex or TripleSeven).

The appellation "cap and ball revolver", which, btw, were the first truly practical repeating firearms, is applied to those kinds of guns to distinguish them from more modern revolvers which have bored-through cylinders and which load fixed ammunition (ie., a self-contained metallic cartridge).
 
2014-01-13 07:55:29 AM
www.blakeneymanor.com
You guys are slacking...
 
2014-01-13 07:57:24 AM

Shirley Ujest: belhade: This can mean only one thing:

Time-traveling murderer!

What flick, please.


Castle.
/TV show.
//Come for the brown coat.
///Stay for the ginger.
 
2014-01-13 08:04:20 AM

Shirley Ujest: belhade: This can mean only one thing:

Time-traveling murderer!

What flick, please.


I think that was an episode of Castle.
 
2014-01-13 08:12:10 AM

ZeroCorpse: I'd be okay with it if our "right to bear arms" only covered flintlocks, wheel locks, muzzle-loaders, etc. That would be fine. If you want to stock up on weapons that take 2 minutes to load, more power to you.


OK, then you're only allowed to use your voice, a parchment and quill pen, or a manual printing press to express your opinions.
 
2014-01-13 08:15:47 AM

falconne: Gleeman: fusillade762: [oi50.tinypic.com image 850x458]

So was that film the good kind of bad, or the bad kind of bad?

Lock Stock? WTF? It's the awesome kind of brilliant.


You're fat. You look as though you're not but you are.
 
2014-01-13 08:17:17 AM

Trance354: Diebesbeute: ZeroCorpse: Diebesbeute: Diebesbeute: Pribar: Several truck drivers I know carry cap and ball revolvers (usually repro Remingtons) because many states prohibit firearms in commercial vehicles but most states classify cap and ball revolvers as relics and not firearms (NY, Massachusetts, and California classify em as firearms and prohibit them in commercial vehicles the last I checked). Getting shot with a .44 cal cap and ball pistol will kill ya just as dead as a modern .44 will.

Cap and ball "revolver"? Are you the author of the news story as well?

My apologies! I've learned something new. I did not realize they made those back in the day. Sorry!

Not a fan of westerns, are you?

Apparently not.  I'm not sure why, but I had always assumed that cap and ball were only single shot.

I was trying to comment on how the reporter had several little errors in the story (referring to the slug itself as a cartridge, etc etc).  All I ended up doing was showing off my own ignorance.  So, Score!?  Again, Sorry Pribar.

usually single action, 5-6 shot.

/back when, THC had real history on it


Damn dopers all potted up talking about how great the grass is.
 
2014-01-13 08:18:33 AM

jso2897: ZeroCorpse: I'd be okay with it if our "right to bear arms" only covered flintlocks, wheel locks, muzzle-loaders, etc. That would be fine. If you want to stock up on weapons that take 2 minutes to load, more power to you. Same goes for gangs. I'd probably be able to accept a world where gangs are armed with nothing more dangerous than a blunderbuss (which ain't exactly harmless, but isn't going to do much after the single shot).

My problem with modern firearms is the ability to fire so many bullets with so little effort, and the ease with which they are reloaded. If you have a guy hold you up with a flintlock, you have a chance to kick his ass if you can make him miss his only shot.

Yeah, sure, some gangs would have gatling guns, but that would just make it kind of hilarious to watch gangbangers pushing the thing around and feeding ammo into it.

I think the world would be better if all weapons were downgraded to those of 1680s pirates.

Yeah, that's what we want - the Crips and the Bloods, clambering around in the riggings, slashing at one another with cutlasses.


Ever try to open-carry a cutlass?
 
2014-01-13 08:20:32 AM

x23: Mock26: What a load of crap.  Everyone knows that there is no gun crime in the United Kingdom.  Their strict gun laws eliminated all gun crime.  Duh.

i dunno... "900 incidents a year in which a weapon is actually fired or brandished" in a country of 63.23 million seems like a significant reduction in gun crime. feel like comparing those numbers to the US? i'd guess we hit 900 in a week.


Its the autos that are the problem. Automobile.

/40000 a year
 
2014-01-13 08:22:18 AM

ArcadianRefugee: doglover: ZeroCorpse: which ain't exactly harmless, but isn't going to do much after the single shot

[upload.wikimedia.org image 850x589]

Yes, safe as mother's milk.

/provided your mother is the Alien queen

Since the same effect can be accomplished with a broom handle, I fail to see that as a counterargument.

The weapon is harmless (effectively) after a single shot; just because you strap another weapon to it doesn't change this fact.


What if someone brings more than one?

It was common during the time period when single shot flintlocks were used for people going in harms way armed to arm themselves with a pair, or "brace" of loaded pistols.  Some carried more than 2.  In fact, notorious pirate Edward "Blackbeard" Teach was known to carry six loaded pistols:

upload.wikimedia.org

What would you do about the "multiple gun loophole"?
 
2014-01-13 08:23:16 AM

StoPPeRmobile: Ever try to open-carry a cutlass?


Keep the cutlass in your Cutlass.
 
2014-01-13 08:30:36 AM
Was it a Winchester?  DNRTFA

www.imfdb.org
 
2014-01-13 08:36:29 AM
Look at that picture showing the "drawer full of homemade firearms".  There appears to be at least one home-made submachine gun in there.  Of course we can't tell if it's actually full-auto or not from the picture, but people in the UK have made them before.

It's actually easier to make a simple full-auto submachine gun than to make a semi-auto version.
 
2014-01-13 08:42:27 AM

The One True TheDavid: How lucky we are in the USA to have oodles of cheap .22LR or .380 handguns around.


Unfortunately, finding cheap .22LR or .380 ammunition is no longer possible.
 
2014-01-13 08:44:38 AM

some_beer_drinker: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 640x360]
wut guns?


came for this
 
2014-01-13 08:51:50 AM

Devolving_Spud: [www.blakeneymanor.com image 308x240]
You guys are slacking...


Note, he's carrying *TWO* pistols.  Even fictional (and stupid) highwaymen played by John Cleese know how to side-step the "single shot" handicap of a flintlock pistol by carrying more than one.
 
2014-01-13 08:57:43 AM

fastbow: The smart cop is a modern invention.


So modern that it hasn't been invented yet!
 
2014-01-13 09:01:38 AM
9,555 gun offences in a year? Isn't that like a long weekend in Chicago? Yup, gun control would never work.
 
2014-01-13 09:04:33 AM

edmo: 9,555 gun offences in a year? Isn't that like a long weekend in Chicago? Yup, gun control would never work.


An island of 60m people is clearly the same as a country of 320m people with the explicit right to military weaponry.
 
2014-01-13 09:25:41 AM
www.dvdtalk.com

FRAMED.
 
2014-01-13 09:26:22 AM

Feed_The_Walrus: I heard ont he radio last week that armed police only discharged their firearms in 3 incidents in the last year, I think it's a total of 5 shots (and a couple of them were probably dogs)

Table 4 Number of incidents where conventional firearms were discharged

This is how many "incidents" there have been where firearms have been discharged.

Year    Incidents
2002/3    10
2003/4    4
2004/5    5
2005/6    9
2006/7    3
2007/8    7
2008/9    5
2009/10    6
2010/119    4
2011/12    5

Source: Association of Chief Police Officers
(Does not include discharges for animal destruction or during police training)



Of those 5 incidents on 2011/12, there were 2 fatalities.  In 2012/13 there were 0 (yes zero) fatalities.

Source
 
2014-01-13 09:29:09 AM

edmo: 9,555 gun offences in a year? Isn't that like a long weekend in Chicago? Yup, gun control would never work.


Historically, the UK has had a low crime rate even before they had any significant gun control.

They passed their first real significant gun control law, the one the current laws are largely based upon, in 1920 not out of fear of crime, but out of fear of a Bolshevik-style revolution in the UK.
 
2014-01-13 09:34:37 AM
Saw an ad in Shotgun News awhile back. Somebody was taking antique (pre-1898) bolt-action magazine rifles, rechambering them for modern ammo (7.62 NATO) and selling them while emphasizing how they were untraceable and legal for felons to own. Never underestimate the avarice of assholes.
 
2014-01-13 09:43:18 AM

mbillips: Saw an ad in Shotgun News awhile back. Somebody was taking antique (pre-1898) bolt-action magazine rifles, rechambering them for modern ammo (7.62 NATO) and selling them while emphasizing how they were untraceable and legal for felons to own. Never underestimate the avarice of assholes.


I found the man placing those ads...

img.fark.net
 
2014-01-13 10:05:24 AM

Gleeman: [i.imgur.com image 660x320]
Not all old weapons are obsolete.


Ma! What are you doing hanging around with sailors?
 
2014-01-13 10:06:35 AM

StoPPeRmobile: Ever try to open-carry a cutlass?


Nope. Saber, on the other hand ...
 
2014-01-13 10:07:47 AM
www.americawriteshome.us
"Ye" is pronounced "The"
 
2014-01-13 10:12:12 AM

Azlefty: ArcadianRefugee: The weapon is harmless (effectively) after a single shot; just because you strap another weapon to it doesn't change this fact.

You should learn about weapons, one of the  major concerns for the military when going from wooden stock firearms to Plastic and polymer is that soldiers would no longer be able to bash a persons brains out with one,  .There is a reason Military rifles have metal butt plates.


Contrary to what you might think, a "buttstroke" is a solution to sexual harassment.
 
2014-01-13 10:29:51 AM

The_Mad_Dutchman: mbillips: Saw an ad in Shotgun News awhile back. Somebody was taking antique (pre-1898) bolt-action magazine rifles, rechambering them for modern ammo (7.62 NATO) and selling them while emphasizing how they were untraceable and legal for felons to own. Never underestimate the avarice of assholes.

I found the man placing those ads...

[img.fark.net image 494x314]


Nah, that's totally legal. You can rechamber or rebarrel an antique rifle for modern ammo, and it's still considered a "non-firearm" by the Feds. Some states restrict ownership of antique cartridge arms, and cap and ball replicas, but the Feds don't.
 
2014-01-13 10:40:31 AM

mbillips: Saw an ad in Shotgun News awhile back. Somebody was taking antique (pre-1898) bolt-action magazine rifles, rechambering them for modern ammo (7.62 NATO) and selling them while emphasizing how they were untraceable and legal for felons to own. Never underestimate the avarice of assholes.


Not all felons are created equal, either.  For instance, Martha Stewart is a felon.  So is Tim Allen.

I don't think I'd feel particularly worried if either of them had an old rebarreled Mauser for, say, deer hunting.

I think the prohibition should be against those convicted of a *VIOLENT* felony from purchasing a firearm.   I don't see a real big societal interest in keeping non-violent felons from owning guns for lawful purposes.  Traditionally, felonies were almost all crimes of violence, with a few exceptions, but today, there are so many different crimes that are now counted as felonies that don't have the actual use or threat of violence, that it's a pretty poor proxy for keeping guns out of the hands of those who shouldn't have them.

It's the "Bo and Luke Duke" syndrome:  You commit a non-violent felony, and you're condemned to spend your life hunting deer from Dodge Charger, using dynamite tipped arrows from your compound bows.
 
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