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(Independent)   Ye Olde England, where criminals use ye olde guns   (independent.co.uk) divider line 156
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8889 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Jan 2014 at 12:31 AM (28 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-12 09:44:45 PM
One big problem with antique firearms is they use bullets that are uncommon and expensive when you can find them. E.g., ammoseek.com can't find any 7.5mm swiss ordnance ammo. Some of those weapons were apparently very accurate as well as durable, especially revolvers and bolt-action rifles.

How lucky we are in the USA to have oodles of cheap .22LR or .380 handguns around. Enterprising crooks can pay cash for them and consider them disposable, like cell phones.

By the way, to keep anybody from reading your cell phone you've got to take the SIM chip out and stomp on it and the rest of the phone really hard. Maybe smash it with a hammer. Pulverize it. Remember too that most TV shows and movies are not designed to teach people how to get away with committing crimes, and even when the crooks do win it's not advisable to pattern your crime off anything the cops or FBI can download and watch.
 
2014-01-12 11:39:41 PM
2.bp.blogspot.com
wut guns?
 
2014-01-13 12:34:08 AM
Methinks ye meant "gunnes."
 
2014-01-13 12:36:03 AM
In one of its more irregular cases, a testicle containing a bullet was sent to NABIS by a surgeon who had removed it from a Jamaican man shot more than 12 year earlier.

Wat?

slurmed.com
 
2014-01-13 12:36:53 AM
My Sidearm is going on 102 years old
 
2014-01-13 12:37:28 AM
Oops 103.
 
2014-01-13 12:39:21 AM
What, you mean like guns that fire shot?
 
2014-01-13 12:40:19 AM

The One True TheDavid: One big problem with antique firearms is they use bullets that are uncommon and expensive when you can find them. E.g., ammoseek.com can't find any 7.5mm swiss ordnance ammo. Some of those weapons were apparently very accurate as well as durable, especially revolvers and bolt-action rifles.

How lucky we are in the USA to have oodles of cheap .22LR or .380 handguns around. Enterprising crooks can pay cash for them and consider them disposable, like cell phones.

By the way, to keep anybody from reading your cell phone you've got to take the SIM chip out and stomp on it and the rest of the phone really hard. Maybe smash it with a hammer. Pulverize it. Remember too that most TV shows and movies are not designed to teach people how to get away with committing crimes, and even when the crooks do win it's not advisable to pattern your crime off anything the cops or FBI can download and watch.


If you pay cash for a Tracfone at the local bodega, it doesn't really matter because unless they track the phone back to that specific store and run the security tapes, there is nothing to link you to the phone if you ditch it.
 
2014-01-13 12:41:40 AM
WW2 was 483+ years* ago. A 100 year old firearm could be quite formidable.

*dog years
 
2014-01-13 12:42:30 AM
oi50.tinypic.com
 
2014-01-13 12:42:34 AM
The old England, as opposed to the new England. Which is not England at all.

/also, guinea pigs are not pigs. nor from Guinea. new or old.
 
2014-01-13 12:43:55 AM
Watch Pawn Stars and see all the advanced guns we can get.
 
2014-01-13 12:44:43 AM
This can mean only one thing:

Time-traveling murderer!

static4.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2014-01-13 12:50:36 AM

belhade: This can mean only one thing:

Time-traveling murderer!


Very Dirk Gently, but their time travelers were a cat and murder victim.
 
2014-01-13 12:52:37 AM
Several truck drivers I know carry cap and ball revolvers (usually repro Remingtons) because many states prohibit firearms in commercial vehicles but most states classify cap and ball revolvers as relics and not firearms (NY, Massachusetts, and California classify em as firearms and prohibit them in commercial vehicles the last I checked). Getting shot with a .44 cal cap and ball pistol will kill ya just as dead as a modern .44 will.
 
2014-01-13 01:07:56 AM

Pribar: Several truck drivers I know carry cap and ball revolvers (usually repro Remingtons) because many states prohibit firearms in commercial vehicles but most states classify cap and ball revolvers as relics and not firearms (NY, Massachusetts, and California classify em as firearms and prohibit them in commercial vehicles the last I checked). Getting shot with a .44 cal cap and ball pistol will kill ya just as dead as a modern .44 will.


Cap and ball "revolver"? Are you the author of the news story as well?
 
2014-01-13 01:08:38 AM

wildcardjack: belhade: This can mean only one thing:

Time-traveling murderer!

Very Dirk Gently, but their time travelers were a cat and murder victim.


What does Molly Quinn have to do with Dirk Gently?

www.hawtcelebs.com
 
2014-01-13 01:11:18 AM

ArcadianRefugee: The old England, as opposed to the new England. Which is not England at all.

/also, guinea pigs are not pigs. nor from Guinea. new or old.


Somewhat relevant to my interests....
 
2014-01-13 01:11:55 AM

Diebesbeute: Pribar: Several truck drivers I know carry cap and ball revolvers (usually repro Remingtons) because many states prohibit firearms in commercial vehicles but most states classify cap and ball revolvers as relics and not firearms (NY, Massachusetts, and California classify em as firearms and prohibit them in commercial vehicles the last I checked). Getting shot with a .44 cal cap and ball pistol will kill ya just as dead as a modern .44 will.

Cap and ball "revolver"? Are you the author of the news story as well?


Why'd you put that in quotations?
 
2014-01-13 01:12:36 AM

Diebesbeute: Pribar: Several truck drivers I know carry cap and ball revolvers (usually repro Remingtons) because many states prohibit firearms in commercial vehicles but most states classify cap and ball revolvers as relics and not firearms (NY, Massachusetts, and California classify em as firearms and prohibit them in commercial vehicles the last I checked). Getting shot with a .44 cal cap and ball pistol will kill ya just as dead as a modern .44 will.

Cap and ball "revolver"? Are you the author of the news story as well?


My apologies! I've learned something new. I did not realize they made those back in the day. Sorry!
 
HKW
2014-01-13 01:13:38 AM

The One True TheDavid: One big problem with antique firearms is they use bullets that are uncommon and expensive when you can find them. E.g., ammoseek.com can't find any 7.5mm swiss ordnance ammo. Some of those weapons were apparently very accurate as well as durable, especially revolvers and bolt-action rifles.


I'm sure its available from European ammo suppliers.   But meh..  Just reform .284 winchester brass, and use standard .308 bullets.  The bore diameter of the Swiss was .307.  If you want to get really technical, just pass a standard .308 bullet through a .307 forming die -- but its more a waste of time.
 
2014-01-13 01:16:12 AM

fusillade762: [oi50.tinypic.com image 850x458]


So was that film the good kind of bad, or the bad kind of bad?
 
2014-01-13 01:18:10 AM
BARs aren't 100 years old yet.

:(
 
2014-01-13 01:19:15 AM
Vintage ammo can be reproduced, all thats is needed is a single unfired round it better to have a few rounds though, but with an unfired round they can make molds for the slugs  then study and measure the casing writing down carefully checked measurements to allow casings to be reproduced.   Measure the powder charge in the vintage bullet then your golden so long as you have skills and equipment to make and load your own bullets.

Mind i have no clue what the regulations in the UK are on ammo reloading equipment.
 
2014-01-13 01:20:38 AM

fusillade762:


Why is the clip upside down?


On that AK47.


/also, I seem to recall Ye Olde cartoon of a highwayman. Anyone have any idea what my befuddled brain is pulling up or am I recalling old episodes of Pink Panther (which I am sure had that scene)
 
2014-01-13 01:25:45 AM

Resident Muslim: fusillade762:

Why is the clip upside down?


On that AK47.


LOL that's not even close to being an AK. That's a Bren gun.
 
2014-01-13 01:28:53 AM

doglover: In one of its more irregular cases, a testicle containing a bullet was sent to NABIS by a surgeon who had removed it from a Jamaican man shot more than 12 year earlier.

Wat?

[slurmed.com image 769x646]


Well, either the bullet was removed 12 years ago; the Jamaican was shot more than 12 years ago and the bullet was only just removed; the testicle was removed 12 years ago and the bullet was only just now taken out; or the surgeon has had a shot Jamaican lingering in his ward for 12 years and just now realized it was due to a bullet lodged in his balls.
 
2014-01-13 01:31:30 AM
M1911

Of course, I'm guessing that one actually made in 1911 would be a little bit expensive for the "chav" crowd.
 
2014-01-13 01:33:35 AM

Gyrfalcon: doglover: In one of its more irregular cases, a testicle containing a bullet was sent to NABIS by a surgeon who had removed it from a Jamaican man shot more than 12 year earlier.

Wat?

[slurmed.com image 769x646]

Well, either the bullet was removed 12 years ago; the Jamaican was shot more than 12 years ago and the bullet was only just removed; the testicle was removed 12 years ago and the bullet was only just now taken out; or the surgeon has had a shot Jamaican lingering in his ward for 12 years and just now realized it was due to a bullet lodged in his balls.


I know which one it is based on the context, but I would LOVE for it to have been the latter.

Oh, thank ja. I been here 12 years, mon. You finally fixed my balls. One love.
 
2014-01-13 01:41:11 AM

Gleeman: fusillade762: [oi50.tinypic.com image 850x458]

So was that film the good kind of bad, or the bad kind of bad?


I enjoyed it. Which is more than I can say for "Snatch".
 
2014-01-13 01:47:00 AM

fusillade762: [oi50.tinypic.com image 850x458]


yeah, but is that gun over 100 years old? nice gun though, that bren.
 
2014-01-13 01:50:46 AM

some_beer_drinker: fusillade762: [oi50.tinypic.com image 850x458]

yeah, but is that gun over 100 years old? nice gun though, that bren.


1935. Not quite.
 
2014-01-13 01:51:28 AM
What a load of crap.  Everyone knows that there is no gun crime in the United Kingdom.  Their strict gun laws eliminated all gun crime.  Duh.
 
2014-01-13 01:52:41 AM
I'd be okay with it if our "right to bear arms" only covered flintlocks, wheel locks, muzzle-loaders, etc. That would be fine. If you want to stock up on weapons that take 2 minutes to load, more power to you. Same goes for gangs. I'd probably be able to accept a world where gangs are armed with nothing more dangerous than a blunderbuss (which ain't exactly harmless, but isn't going to do much after the single shot).

My problem with modern firearms is the ability to fire so many bullets with so little effort, and the ease with which they are reloaded. If you have a guy hold you up with a flintlock, you have a chance to kick his ass if you can make him miss his only shot.

Yeah, sure, some gangs would have gatling guns, but that would just make it kind of hilarious to watch gangbangers pushing the thing around and feeding ammo into it.

I think the world would be better if all weapons were downgraded to those of 1680s pirates.
 
2014-01-13 01:54:57 AM

Diebesbeute: Diebesbeute: Pribar: Several truck drivers I know carry cap and ball revolvers (usually repro Remingtons) because many states prohibit firearms in commercial vehicles but most states classify cap and ball revolvers as relics and not firearms (NY, Massachusetts, and California classify em as firearms and prohibit them in commercial vehicles the last I checked). Getting shot with a .44 cal cap and ball pistol will kill ya just as dead as a modern .44 will.

Cap and ball "revolver"? Are you the author of the news story as well?

My apologies! I've learned something new. I did not realize they made those back in the day. Sorry!


Not a fan of westerns, are you?
 
2014-01-13 01:54:59 AM

The One True TheDavid: One big problem with antique firearms is they use bullets that are uncommon and expensive when you can find them. E.g., ammoseek.com can't find any 7.5mm swiss ordnance ammo. Some of those weapons were apparently very accurate as well as durable, especially revolvers and bolt-action rifles.


On the other hand, as time marches on...  if a hundred years is the cut-off point, then some surprisingly modern calibers come into play.  I mean, an original M1911 Colt would qualify, as would some .38 revolvers.  Browning 9mm has been around almost as long too IIRC.  Rifles, well, they are less useful for criminal purposes (who is going to do a drive by with a 98 Mauser?) but still, they would be available.

As has been stated unthread a bit, in the US it's basically a division based not on age per se but on tech.  Black powder, cap and ball guns are usually less regulated than cartridge weapons.  Criminals aren't usually interested in things that take that much time to load, they aren't very effective tools of malfeasance.
 
2014-01-13 02:03:45 AM

ZeroCorpse: Diebesbeute: Diebesbeute: Pribar: Several truck drivers I know carry cap and ball revolvers (usually repro Remingtons) because many states prohibit firearms in commercial vehicles but most states classify cap and ball revolvers as relics and not firearms (NY, Massachusetts, and California classify em as firearms and prohibit them in commercial vehicles the last I checked). Getting shot with a .44 cal cap and ball pistol will kill ya just as dead as a modern .44 will.

Cap and ball "revolver"? Are you the author of the news story as well?

My apologies! I've learned something new. I did not realize they made those back in the day. Sorry!

Not a fan of westerns, are you?


Apparently not.  I'm not sure why, but I had always assumed that cap and ball were only single shot.

I was trying to comment on how the reporter had several little errors in the story (referring to the slug itself as a cartridge, etc etc).  All I ended up doing was showing off my own ignorance.  So, Score!?  Again, Sorry Pribar.
 
2014-01-13 02:08:13 AM

ArcadianRefugee: wildcardjack: belhade: This can mean only one thing:

Time-traveling murderer!

Very Dirk Gently, but their time travelers were a cat and murder victim.

What does Molly Quinn have to do with Dirk Gently?

[www.hawtcelebs.com image 425x552]


She really deserves her own show. Hopefully not just a spinoff.
 
2014-01-13 02:08:22 AM

ZeroCorpse: I'd be okay with it if our "right to bear arms" only covered flintlocks, wheel locks, muzzle-loaders, etc. That would be fine. If you want to stock up on weapons that take 2 minutes to load, more power to you. Same goes for gangs. I'd probably be able to accept a world where gangs are armed with nothing more dangerous than a blunderbuss (which ain't exactly harmless, but isn't going to do much after the single shot).

My problem with modern firearms is the ability to fire so many bullets with so little effort, and the ease with which they are reloaded. If you have a guy hold you up with a flintlock, you have a chance to kick his ass if you can make him miss his only shot.

Yeah, sure, some gangs would have gatling guns, but that would just make it kind of hilarious to watch gangbangers pushing the thing around and feeding ammo into it.

I think the world would be better if all weapons were downgraded to those of 1680s pirates.


For a very long time (like, until the advent of rifling long, and even then...) the most powerful force on the battlefield was not the firearm. Not even artillery, although if used well it was immensely effective. No, the most powerful force on the battlefield was the blade. From pikes to shanks. Bangers wouldn't bother with muskets. They'd let you take your one inaccurate shot, then they'd gut you. Firearms are a great leveling force that allows the weaker to stand against the strong. Now instead of couching this idea in silly notions of tyranny and resistance, let's talk law enforcement. The smart cop is a modern invention. Before guns, what good was a cop who could think, if he couldn't go toe-to-toe with the thugs? Firearms are a risk, yes, but they have a measurable level of good they contribute to society that the blade cannot match. Liberalism and the Enlightenment owe their existence to the firearm. Remove them, and we'll be back to feudalism in too short a time.
 
2014-01-13 02:14:06 AM
i.imgur.com

Not all old weapons are obsolete.
 
2014-01-13 02:14:26 AM

Diebesbeute: ZeroCorpse: Diebesbeute: Diebesbeute: Pribar: Several truck drivers I know carry cap and ball revolvers (usually repro Remingtons) because many states prohibit firearms in commercial vehicles but most states classify cap and ball revolvers as relics and not firearms (NY, Massachusetts, and California classify em as firearms and prohibit them in commercial vehicles the last I checked). Getting shot with a .44 cal cap and ball pistol will kill ya just as dead as a modern .44 will.

Cap and ball "revolver"? Are you the author of the news story as well?

My apologies! I've learned something new. I did not realize they made those back in the day. Sorry!

Not a fan of westerns, are you?

Apparently not.  I'm not sure why, but I had always assumed that cap and ball were only single shot.

I was trying to comment on how the reporter had several little errors in the story (referring to the slug itself as a cartridge, etc etc).  All I ended up doing was showing off my own ignorance.  So, Score!?  Again, Sorry Pribar.


usually single action, 5-6 shot.

/back when, THC had real history on it
 
2014-01-13 02:22:37 AM
i.ytimg.com
www.gunandgame.com
 
2014-01-13 02:23:15 AM

ZeroCorpse: which ain't exactly harmless, but isn't going to do much after the single shot


upload.wikimedia.org

Yes, safe as mother's milk.


/provided your mother is the Alien queen
 
2014-01-13 02:27:34 AM

ZeroCorpse: I'd be okay with it if our "right to bear arms" only covered flintlocks, wheel locks, muzzle-loaders, etc. That would be fine. If you want to stock up on weapons that take 2 minutes to load, more power to you. Same goes for gangs. I'd probably be able to accept a world where gangs are armed with nothing more dangerous than a blunderbuss (which ain't exactly harmless, but isn't going to do much after the single shot).

My problem with modern firearms is the ability to fire so many bullets with so little effort, and the ease with which they are reloaded. If you have a guy hold you up with a flintlock, you have a chance to kick his ass if you can make him miss his only shot.

Yeah, sure, some gangs would have gatling guns, but that would just make it kind of hilarious to watch gangbangers pushing the thing around and feeding ammo into it.

I think the world would be better if all weapons were downgraded to those of 1680s pirates.


Yeah, that's what we want - the Crips and the Bloods, clambering around in the riggings, slashing at one another with cutlasses.
 
2014-01-13 02:39:10 AM

doglover: ZeroCorpse: which ain't exactly harmless, but isn't going to do much after the single shot

[upload.wikimedia.org image 850x589]

Yes, safe as mother's milk.

/provided your mother is the Alien queen


Since the same effect can be accomplished with a broom handle, I fail to see that as a counterargument.

The weapon is harmless (effectively) after a single shot; just because you strap another weapon to it doesn't change this fact.
 
2014-01-13 02:42:28 AM

ArcadianRefugee: I fail to see that as a counterargument.


Well, that would probably because it's not a counterargument.
 
HKW
2014-01-13 02:51:48 AM

ZeroCorpse: I think the world would be better if all weapons were downgraded to those of 1680s pirates.


Here in Vietnam, a 'gang' will ride up to you on your 'fancy' bike, stab you in your liver as they shove you off the bike, and ride away to the vietnam-verison-of-pawn-stars to cash in..

you need to think dynamically my friend.  Having a myopic knee-jerk dislike for 'modern' weapons, and ridding them, doesnt make the world any safer than it already is.
 
2014-01-13 02:56:54 AM

Gleeman: fusillade762: [oi50.tinypic.com image 850x458]

So was that film the good kind of bad, or the bad kind of bad?


Lock Stock? WTF? It's the awesome kind of brilliant.
 
2014-01-13 03:08:15 AM

ArcadianRefugee: The weapon is harmless (effectively) after a single shot; just because you strap another weapon to it doesn't change this fact.


You should learn about weapons, one of the  major concerns for the military when going from wooden stock firearms to Plastic and polymer is that soldiers would no longer be able to bash a persons brains out with one,  .There is a reason Military rifles have metal butt plates.
 
2014-01-13 03:09:55 AM

Gleeman: [i.imgur.com image 660x320]

Not all old weapons are obsolete.


Good ol Ma deuce.
 
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