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(WCHS Charleston)   CEO Gary Southern sips bottled water while attempting to dodge hot, persistent reporter's fluid questions about Freedom Industries poisoning the water of 300,000 in W. Va. Gulp   (wchstv.com) divider line 56
    More: Dumbass, CEO Gary Southern, bottled waters, water industry, chemical accident  
•       •       •

10300 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Jan 2014 at 6:32 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Archived thread
2014-01-12 03:04:11 PM  
15 votes:
I want to punch him just for "Freedom Industries."
2014-01-12 05:22:53 PM  
7 votes:

WTF Indeed: It's West Virginia, no one should feel bad for West Virginia.


It's a trout river.  Doesn't matter where it is.
2014-01-12 06:59:27 PM  
6 votes:

optikeye: But the libertarian's say the free market will take care of this kind of thing because people won't buy Freedom Industries product now.


Felgraf: Mrbogey: optikeye: But the libertarian's say the free market will take care of this kind of thing because people won't buy Freedom Industries product now.

In the libertarian world the aggrieved would demand recompense for the damage done to them. If they can turn a profit while still paying people they keep hurting then they'll stay around. However, it's never a good business model to throw money away just because you're careless. Unless a company gets some kind of subsidy because they're too big to fail, they'll either have to stop leaking chemicals or go out of business.

Assuming, of course, the aggrieved can A) Prove damages (How do you know your sickness was caused by our chemical? Our chemical isn't KNOWN to cause any sicknesses, so you'd better prove it was our chemical that made you sick!) B) Have enough money to withstand the lengthy court battle as the company likely has faaarr deeper pockets to afford lawyers that can throw up roadblock after roablock.


And even if damage is proved, companies often file for bankruptcy so avoid paying for anything close to the damage they've caused.  A new company emerging from the bankrupt one, often run by the same people.

That, in a nutshell is why the anti-regulation portion of libertarianism is so naive.

Without regulation, individuals going up against a large corporations is like an average guy going up against an NFL football team.  Governments and regulation are the equalizer.
2014-01-12 05:49:39 PM  
6 votes:

2wolves: WTF Indeed: It's West Virginia, no one should feel bad for West Virginia.

It's a trout river.  Doesn't matter where it is.


This.  West Virginians may (on average) be worthy of ridicule, but wastefully destroying habitat for nature is never cool.
2014-01-12 04:16:11 PM  
6 votes:
But the libertarian's say the free market will take care of this kind of thing because people won't buy Freedom Industries product now.
2014-01-12 07:15:01 PM  
3 votes:

Mrtraveler01: a particular individual: At least Freedom Industries owned up, accepted the blame, and did something about it. Unlike Obama, who has yet to apologize for ordering the deaths of four Americans in Benghazi, ordering the IRS to spy on Americans, and ordering Solyndra to take a $500-billion government handout, knowing they would go out of business.

Someone has been reading too many comment sections on Christie and this story.


Someone else just got trolled.
2014-01-12 06:49:09 PM  
3 votes:
Imagine what really horrible stuff would be happening if we had smaller government.
2014-01-12 06:43:48 PM  
3 votes:
I am so glad this article identified the chemical in question, 4-methylcyclohexane methanol.  I saw a 30 minute report on this last night that covered every angle except saying what the toxin was.  Having a chemical background I was going apeshiat with the glaring hole in the reporting.
2014-01-12 06:41:16 PM  
3 votes:
As a southern Gary I'm getting a kick ...

/any problem y'all have with West Virginia is with the people - the area is, objectively, chock full of stunning natural beauty
2014-01-12 06:40:58 PM  
3 votes:
I'm sure plenty of West Virginians would rather die from drinking contaminated water than have a government agency like the EPA getting all involved in their lives to clean it up.

/another red state racing to the bottom
2014-01-12 07:36:29 PM  
2 votes:

Satanic_Hamster: d23: Most of the West Virginia citizenry continue to felate the big coal machine.  It's quite incredible to behold... the corporate worship is just amazing.  "Please, please mista, go ahead and poison our water.  We need our jerbs!"

Thing is?  Most of West Virginia HATES coal, even the coal workers.  They hate management and they hate the industry for killing their brother/father/uncle.  It's a bit bizarre.


But they are good with their propaganda.

stateimpact.npr.org

www.wvpolicy.org

1.bp.blogspot.com

farm4.staticflickr.com

farm4.static.flickr.com
2014-01-12 07:06:36 PM  
2 votes:

WTF Indeed: It's West Virginia, no one should feel bad for West Virginia.


Part of me wants to agree, but then most of the residents are doing their best to keep a job and a home.   They are likely contagiously stupid, but at least it is contained and less likely to spread.
2014-01-12 07:05:33 PM  
2 votes:

Felgraf: Mrbogey: optikeye: But the libertarian's say the free market will take care of this kind of thing because people won't buy Freedom Industries product now.

In the libertarian world the aggrieved would demand recompense for the damage done to them. If they can turn a profit while still paying people they keep hurting then they'll stay around. However, it's never a good business model to throw money away just because you're careless. Unless a company gets some kind of subsidy because they're too big to fail, they'll either have to stop leaking chemicals or go out of business.

Assuming, of course, the aggrieved can A) Prove damages (How do you know your sickness was caused by our chemical? Our chemical isn't KNOWN to cause any sicknesses, so you'd better prove it was our chemical that made you sick!) B) Have enough money to withstand the lengthy court battle as the company likely has faaarr deeper pockets to afford lawyers that can throw up roadblock after roablock.


Don't forget that many of the same people that are pushing deregulation are also pushing for tort reform.  So, even if you can prove damages, and you can win in court, you'll only get a pittance.
2014-01-12 06:59:14 PM  
2 votes:

a particular individual: If Freedom Industries didn't pollute the water, some other company would. You can't legislate responsibility. None of the Marxists complaining about this see the irony that they're using computers/iPads/smart phones which would be impossible without oil. All you worshipers of Al Gore just want to make the rest of us live in caves and outlaw the internal combustion engine while Al Gore's carbon footprint stamps on a human face--forever.


Go live in Love Canal...
2014-01-12 06:57:32 PM  
2 votes:

peacheslatour: GRCooper: As a southern Gary I'm getting a kick ...

/any problem y'all have with West Virginia is with the people - the area is, objectively, chock full of stunning natural beauty

My parents were married in the Shenandoah Valley and said it was some of the most beautiful country they'd ever seen.  Also said they couldn't wait to get out of there.


The Shenandoah River Valley is in Virginia.
2014-01-12 06:50:00 PM  
2 votes:

skinink: Imagine what really horrible stuff would be happening if we had smaller government.


Valid point, this is what happens when WV sells its soul to the coal industry.
2014-01-12 06:37:21 PM  
2 votes:
Cue the Texas politicians who will invite them to move to Texas with Texas's lower regulations, as well as Joe Barton apologizing for getting the river in the way of their chemicals.
2014-01-12 04:03:15 PM  
2 votes:
"Clean Coal!"
2014-01-13 12:09:03 AM  
1 votes:

Mrbogey: The irony is that Matt Damon made a movie financed in part by anti-fracking oil sheiks while Fracknation received no funding from fracking corps.


No, just money from people in the fracking industry.

The film, however, is being partially funded through donations on the Kickstarter website, and the roster of "executive producers" who have donated at least $1 includes scores of energy industry associates.

http://www.post-gazette.com/business/businessnews/2012/03/04/Industr y- gets-cast-in-FrackNation-the-latest-documentary-on-the-drilling-debate /stories/2012030402520000000#ixzz2qFgilKdx

Mrbogey: As to regulations, you realize you can sue someone even without regulations?


So instead of creating regulations to prevent the little man from getting screwed over, we wait for the little man to get screw over and hope that he wins his lawsuit when he does get screwed over?
2014-01-12 11:39:22 PM  
1 votes:

WTF Indeed: It's West Virginia, no one should feel bad for West Virginia.



Stick your ignorance about West Virginia in your ass shiat for brains.

And then go fark yourself.
2014-01-12 10:39:13 PM  
1 votes:

theorellior: But the dumbfarks have decided that the best way to deal with flammable water coming out of kitchen faucets is to circle the wagons and clam up.


And put up these billboards (which btw is promoting a "documentary" that was heavily promoted by the fracking industry:

images.politico.com

Mrbogey: You know for regulations that help corporations screw the little guy you need to first have a gov't strong enough to enforce unfair laws.


Whereas without those regulations, the corporations screw the little guy much faster.
2014-01-12 10:22:01 PM  
1 votes:

JoieD'Zen: Satanic_Hamster: Dougie AXP: I just drove Philly to Pittsburgh today. I didn't see any Fracking ones. Now that the "gold rush" has calmed down, people aren't getting uppity as much.

I think the industry in PA has realized that the more they keep fracking in people's minds, the more they'll have negative consequences of it.

I can't imagine living in that area.


I was up there this past summer.
I bought a couple of bottles of water in a supermarket and the check-out girl commented to me on how inexpensive those bottles of water were, as though I were being let in on a secret.

Drinking water is a right, not a consumer commodity.
And they're destroying watersheds, possibly for ever, for the sake of some truck driving jobs for some idiot oilfield trash who will go home to crap-hole states like Texas and Oklahoma and die of cancer in their 40s.

In the bathroom of the quickie mart I stopped in, the graffitti on the wall was all about the oil field trash, telling them to go home and how fracking was confederate revenge. Another scrawl said simply, "FU@K, FIGHT, AND LAY PIPE."
2014-01-12 10:08:51 PM  
1 votes:

Satanic_Hamster: Said it before years ago: fracking is a very useful, economic, powerful technique that the industry is going to get banned by total incompetent and overuse and by mindless covering of their reckless members.


That's the sad thing. This technique could make the United States self-sufficient in energy for a while, and make a lot of people a lot of money even if they played by the rules and did things clean. But the dumbfarks have decided that the best way to deal with flammable water coming out of kitchen faucets is to circle the wagons and clam up.
2014-01-12 08:56:42 PM  
1 votes:

Mrbogey: optikeye: But the libertarian's say the free market will take care of this kind of thing because people won't buy Freedom Industries product now.

In the libertarian world the aggrieved would demand recompense for the damage done to them. If they can turn a profit while still paying people they keep hurting then they'll stay around. However, it's never a good business model to throw money away just because you're careless. Unless a company gets some kind of subsidy because they're too big to fail, they'll either have to stop leaking chemicals or go out of business.


Oh no. In libertarian paradise there is no such legal term for tort. it's every man for himself. the public would have to exact their revenge with guns ,pitchforks and torches.
2014-01-12 08:39:58 PM  
1 votes:

JoieD'Zen: Satanic_Hamster: Dougie AXP: I just drove Philly to Pittsburgh today. I didn't see any Fracking ones. Now that the "gold rush" has calmed down, people aren't getting uppity as much.

I think the industry in PA has realized that the more they keep fracking in people's minds, the more they'll have negative consequences of it.

I can't imagine living in that area.


And here's the thing; PA is VERY friendly to heavy industry.  They're been a coal/steel/rail/manufacturing state for 150 years.  It's VERY ingrained in the people's mind.

And THEY'RE turning against fracking.  THAT'S how badly fracking has farked up in PA.

Said it before years ago:  fracking is a very useful, economic, powerful technique that the industry is going to get banned by total incompetent and overuse and by mindless covering of their reckless members.  For the life of me, I don't understand why the industry is willing to farkover their long term prospects by covering for the short term profits of a few jagoffs.
2014-01-12 08:36:34 PM  
1 votes:
Freedom is owned by the mega-rich Koch brothers FYI.
/living through the Aquapolypse in one of the affected counties
//Charleston PR firm has dropped Freedom  as a client after the Southern fiasco
2014-01-12 08:24:13 PM  
1 votes:

berylman: I am so glad this article identified the chemical in question, 4-methylcyclohexane methanol.  I saw a 30 minute report on this last night that covered every angle except saying what the toxin was.  Having a chemical background I was going apeshiat with the glaring hole in the reporting.


That hole in the reporting isn't really filled, because apparently nobody knows anything about that chemical, and chemists everywhere are baffled by the name, which doesn't conform to any IUPAC standard.  (4-methylcyclohexyl)methanol or 1-hydroxy-4-methylcyclohexane would be more appropriate.
2014-01-12 08:08:31 PM  
1 votes:
No Marco Rubio gifs?
2014-01-12 08:07:10 PM  
1 votes:
Obama isn't killing coal, the free market is. Deregulation of frakking and the rising popularity of green energy is making the difficult and expensive to obtain coal a lot, lot less desirable. Obama is just a convenient scapegoat because people would rather believe he's a malicious boogeyman out to kill their job as opposed to a changing market that their not keeping up with.
2014-01-12 07:57:29 PM  
1 votes:

Hollie Maea: doglover: No, the COAL industry does that.

There's been actual shooting wars fought, with a plane dropping bombs on American citizens, over the abuses the average man suffers at the hand of the coal industry.

That doesn't account for election results.  The coal industry absolutely does wage a propaganda war, but they aren't the ones pulling the lever on election day.


Poison Gas.

They used poison gas.

The US government used poison gas on it's own citizens to protect the interests of mining companies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain
2014-01-12 07:47:20 PM  
1 votes:
Big deal, Cleveland has still got you beat.

img.fark.net
2014-01-12 07:37:32 PM  
1 votes:

Mrtraveler01: Znuh: Looking at Freedom's storage tanks, you'd think they'd never even seen routine maintenance.

Why bother maintaining them if they aren't going to be inspected?

http://www.ibtimes.com/freedom-industries-meet-chemical-provider-cen te r-west-virginia-chemical-spill-1536036

According to NBC, who spoke to the state Department of Environmental Protection, Freedom Industries is exempt from DEP inspection because it only stores chemicals and does not produce them, despite the Freedom Industries website claiming they are producers. It is unclear whether or not the Etowah River Terminal facility does produce chemicals or is only a storage facility.

Kanwaha County Commission President Kent Carper said yesterday that a containment wall meant to prevent chemicals from reaching soil at Freedom Industries was in need of $1 million in repairs, but was never fixed.


Lovely.
2014-01-12 07:32:44 PM  
1 votes:

Mrbogey: optikeye: But the libertarian's say the free market will take care of this kind of thing because people won't buy Freedom Industries product now.

In the libertarian world the aggrieved would demand recompense for the damage done to them. If they can turn a profit while still paying people they keep hurting then they'll stay around. However, it's never a good business model to throw money away just because you're careless. Unless a company gets some kind of subsidy because they're too big to fail, they'll either have to stop leaking chemicals or go out of business.


The problem is the aggrieved are generally good to be able to scrape up enough change to buy a McNugget while the company can lawyer up hard enough to steamroll everyone flat.

You can "demand recompense" all you want, but unless you have the legal might to back it up, you're just some guy standing on the sidewalk stamping your feet in anger.
2014-01-12 07:31:46 PM  
1 votes:
I've got family in WV (Logan County, in the heart of coal country), and while it is a naturally stunning state, some towns look like a former Soviet republic. Granted, that statement could apply to most of Appalachia.
2014-01-12 07:28:37 PM  
1 votes:

fluffy2097: Google the Love Canal.


NSFW.
2014-01-12 07:23:59 PM  
1 votes:
Take a look at the MSDS for 4-Methylcyclohexane Methanol.

Does it cause cancer?  We don't know.
Does it cause birth defects?  We don't know.
Does it explode?  We don't know.
Does it screw up your DNA?  We don't know.
Does it make you cough, or give you a rash, or burn your eyes?  We don't know.

Well, I didn't see a YES answer in there, so by all means lets let this crap out into the big wide world all reckless-like.  Absolutely nothing could go wrong.
2014-01-12 07:22:17 PM  
1 votes:

Ambivalence: optikeye: But the libertarian's say the free market will take care of this kind of thing because people won't buy Freedom Industries product now.

Who even knows what they sell?


Here's something interesting http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/01/11/1268990/-Freedom-Industries- H as-Ties-to-Koch-Brothers
2014-01-12 07:14:57 PM  
1 votes:

a particular individual: Mrtraveler01: a particular individual: At least Freedom Industries owned up, accepted the blame, and did something about it. Unlike Obama, who has yet to apologize for ordering the deaths of four Americans in Benghazi, ordering the IRS to spy on Americans, and ordering Solyndra to take a $500-billion government handout, knowing they would go out of business.

Someone has been reading too many comment sections on Christie and this story.

Can anyone read too many of those comments?


While maintaining faith in humanity? Yes.
2014-01-12 07:12:09 PM  
1 votes:
organizmx /another red state racing to the bottom

So with all the blue states down there now it'll be purple?
http://greatlakesecho.org/2010/06/04/poisoning-michigan-an-author-re vi sits-the-most-widespread-contamination-30-years-later/

http://chronicle.northcoastnow.com/2012/04/24/lake-erie-ranks-in-nat io n's-top-50-for-carcinogens-dumped-into-water/
2014-01-12 07:07:45 PM  
1 votes:

organizmx: I'm sure plenty of West Virginians would rather die from drinking contaminated water than have a government agency like the EPA getting all involved in their lives to clean it up.

/another red state racing to the bottom


And what makes you think that?

Have you ever been to West Virginia?

Beautiful place, nice people, horribly poor for the most part.

I wouldn't say they're all as crazy or dumb as you may think.  Some of them may be worse.
2014-01-12 07:03:39 PM  
1 votes:

WTFDYW: He does look punchable. But then again, he is under SOME stress.

/he's really, really sorry.


I know, that was so mean of the media to not let him go and instead ask him more hard-hitting questions.

/he REALLY did not want to be there
2014-01-12 07:01:22 PM  
1 votes:

d23: Most of the West Virginia citizenry continue to felate the big coal machine.


In a smelter town next door to my home town (not anywhere near WV), the state was testing school kids for lead, since, you know, smelter. Sure enough, the kids had lead. So did their lawns. So, naturally, the kids' parents did what any responsible parent would do: they made the state quit testing their kids. Problem solved.
d23 [TotalFark]
2014-01-12 07:01:03 PM  
1 votes:

RandomRandom: Without regulation, individuals going up against a large corporations is like an average guy going up against an NFL football team. Governments and regulation are the equalizer.


Which is exactly why the constant attacks on the EPA.  The EPA hardly does anything anymore.  The constant attacks are laughable.
2014-01-12 06:59:39 PM  
1 votes:
2014-01-12 06:57:20 PM  
1 votes:

2wolves: WTF Indeed: It's West Virginia, no one should feel bad for West Virginia.

It's a trout river the source of potable water for 300,000 people.  Doesn't matter where it is.

2014-01-12 06:56:39 PM  
1 votes:

Felgraf: Mrbogey: optikeye: But the libertarian's say the free market will take care of this kind of thing because people won't buy Freedom Industries product now.

In the libertarian world the aggrieved would demand recompense for the damage done to them. If they can turn a profit while still paying people they keep hurting then they'll stay around. However, it's never a good business model to throw money away just because you're careless. Unless a company gets some kind of subsidy because they're too big to fail, they'll either have to stop leaking chemicals or go out of business.

Assuming, of course, the aggrieved can A) Prove damages (How do you know your sickness was caused by our chemical? Our chemical isn't KNOWN to cause any sicknesses, so you'd better prove it was our chemical that made you sick!) B) Have enough money to withstand the lengthy court battle as the company likely has faaarr deeper pockets to afford lawyers that can throw up roadblock after roablock.


Also assuming "the aggeieved" aren't DEAD.
2014-01-12 06:54:42 PM  
1 votes:

berylman: I am so glad this article identified the chemical in question, 4-methylcyclohexane methanol.  I saw a 30 minute report on this last night that covered every angle except saying what the toxin was.  Having a chemical background I was going apeshiat with the glaring hole in the reporting.


They also found a LOT of dihydrogenmonoxide
2014-01-12 06:52:19 PM  
1 votes:

best part?

a particular individual: --forever.

don't force it so much, you'll hurt yourself.
2014-01-12 06:49:57 PM  
1 votes:
If Freedom Industries didn't pollute the water, some other company would. You can't legislate responsibility. None of the Marxists complaining about this see the irony that they're using computers/iPads/smart phones which would be impossible without oil. All you worshipers of Al Gore just want to make the rest of us live in caves and outlaw the internal combustion engine while Al Gore's carbon footprint stamps on a human face--forever.
2014-01-12 06:49:05 PM  
1 votes:

Mrbogey: optikeye: But the libertarian's say the free market will take care of this kind of thing because people won't buy Freedom Industries product now.

In the libertarian world the aggrieved would demand recompense for the damage done to them. If they can turn a profit while still paying people they keep hurting then they'll stay around. However, it's never a good business model to throw money away just because you're careless. Unless a company gets some kind of subsidy because they're too big to fail, they'll either have to stop leaking chemicals or go out of business.


Assuming, of course, the aggrieved can A) Prove damages (How do you know your sickness was caused by our chemical? Our chemical isn't KNOWN to cause any sicknesses, so you'd better prove it was our chemical that made you sick!) B) Have enough money to withstand the lengthy court battle as the company likely has faaarr deeper pockets to afford lawyers that can throw up roadblock after roablock.
2014-01-12 06:48:08 PM  
1 votes:

ultraholland: "We are very, very sorry for disruption of everyone's daily life," Southern said.

[i.imgur.com image 480x360]


No kidding. That was probably the most generic and least heartfelt apology I've heard in quite a while.

Freedom Industries: "Look its been a long day for me and I'd like to wrap this up"
WCHS reporter: "It's been a long day for us too and we have a lot of questions"


macrochan.org
2014-01-12 06:47:09 PM  
1 votes:

Mrbogey: optikeye: But the libertarian's say the free market will take care of this kind of thing because people won't buy Freedom Industries product now.

In the libertarian world the aggrieved would demand recompense for the damage done to them. If they can turn a profit while still paying people they keep hurting then they'll stay around. However, it's never a good business model to throw money away just because you're careless. Unless a company gets some kind of subsidy because they're too big to fail, they'll either have to stop leaking chemicals or go out of business.


Now does all this happen before or after the Dance of Liberty around the community garbage fire? And when demanding recompense does the defendant have to be wearing the Speaking Coonskin Hat or is open discourse encouraged?
2014-01-12 06:46:39 PM  
1 votes:

Hollie Maea: optikeye: But the libertarian's say the free market will take care of this kind of thing because people won't buy Freedom Industries product now.

Sure, if you Hate Freedom (TM), and you want to wage a War On Coal (TM).


www.rightsightings.com
2014-01-12 06:43:56 PM  
1 votes:
What we need here are not government regulations, but free market solutions.  If there were no EPA, consumers would simply choose another supplier for their coal foaming agent needs.  Now, because of onerous regulations, Freedom Industries might pay a fine.  An eagle is crying - possibly because of coal foaming agent in its eyes.  This is on you libs.
2014-01-12 06:39:11 PM  
1 votes:

Mrbogey: In the libertarian world the aggrieved would demand recompense for the damage done to them



And who's going to force the company to fork over? It's not like everyone in West Virginia signed a contract that Freedom shouldn't be dumping in their water.
2014-01-12 04:43:43 PM  
1 votes:
It's West Virginia, no one should feel bad for West Virginia.
 
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