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(WCHS Charleston)   CEO Gary Southern sips bottled water while attempting to dodge hot, persistent reporter's fluid questions about Freedom Industries poisoning the water of 300,000 in W. Va. Gulp   (wchstv.com ) divider line 186
    More: Dumbass, CEO Gary Southern, bottled waters, water industry, chemical accident  
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10309 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Jan 2014 at 6:32 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-12 02:45:55 PM  
following in the grand WV tradition of fouling the environment.
 
2014-01-12 02:53:20 PM  
"We are very, very sorry for disruption of everyone's daily life," Southern said.

i.imgur.com
 
2014-01-12 03:04:11 PM  
I want to punch him just for "Freedom Industries."
 
2014-01-12 04:03:15 PM  
"Clean Coal!"
 
2014-01-12 04:16:11 PM  
But the libertarian's say the free market will take care of this kind of thing because people won't buy Freedom Industries product now.
 
2014-01-12 04:17:25 PM  
home.fazekas.hu
 
2014-01-12 04:20:03 PM  

optikeye: But the libertarian's say the free market will take care of this kind of thing because people won't buy Freedom Industries product now.


Sure, if you Hate Freedom (TM), and you want to wage a War On Coal (TM).
 
2014-01-12 04:43:43 PM  
It's West Virginia, no one should feel bad for West Virginia.
 
2014-01-12 05:22:53 PM  

WTF Indeed: It's West Virginia, no one should feel bad for West Virginia.


It's a trout river.  Doesn't matter where it is.
 
2014-01-12 05:29:37 PM  
Is he drinking the Obama water?
 
2014-01-12 05:49:39 PM  

2wolves: WTF Indeed: It's West Virginia, no one should feel bad for West Virginia.

It's a trout river.  Doesn't matter where it is.


This.  West Virginians may (on average) be worthy of ridicule, but wastefully destroying habitat for nature is never cool.
 
2014-01-12 06:36:17 PM  

optikeye: But the libertarian's say the free market will take care of this kind of thing because people won't buy Freedom Industries product now.


In the libertarian world the aggrieved would demand recompense for the damage done to them. If they can turn a profit while still paying people they keep hurting then they'll stay around. However, it's never a good business model to throw money away just because you're careless. Unless a company gets some kind of subsidy because they're too big to fail, they'll either have to stop leaking chemicals or go out of business.
 
2014-01-12 06:36:58 PM  
Suck on that, John Galt.
 
2014-01-12 06:37:21 PM  
Cue the Texas politicians who will invite them to move to Texas with Texas's lower regulations, as well as Joe Barton apologizing for getting the river in the way of their chemicals.
 
2014-01-12 06:37:36 PM  
Latest test results: PDF
 
2014-01-12 06:39:08 PM  

optikeye: But the libertarian's say the free market will take care of this kind of thing because people won't buy Freedom Industries product now.


Umm, no, Freedom Industries doesn't sell water.

But they can simply switch to a cleaner local groundwater supply.
 
2014-01-12 06:39:11 PM  

Mrbogey: In the libertarian world the aggrieved would demand recompense for the damage done to them



And who's going to force the company to fork over? It's not like everyone in West Virginia signed a contract that Freedom shouldn't be dumping in their water.
 
2014-01-12 06:40:58 PM  
I'm sure plenty of West Virginians would rather die from drinking contaminated water than have a government agency like the EPA getting all involved in their lives to clean it up.

/another red state racing to the bottom
 
2014-01-12 06:41:16 PM  
As a southern Gary I'm getting a kick ...

/any problem y'all have with West Virginia is with the people - the area is, objectively, chock full of stunning natural beauty
 
2014-01-12 06:41:31 PM  

propasaurus: I want to punch him just for "Freedom Industries."


Why do you hate freedom?

dl.dropboxusercontent.com
 
2014-01-12 06:41:45 PM  

doyner: 2wolves: WTF Indeed: It's West Virginia, no one should feel bad for West Virginia.

It's a trout river.  Doesn't matter where it is.

This.  West Virginians may (on average) be worthy of ridicule, but wastefully destroying habitat for nature is never cool.


I'd just like to add that WV has more Powerball winners than other states.

/subby
//article in Daily Mail is a bit more detailed
 
2014-01-12 06:43:48 PM  
I am so glad this article identified the chemical in question, 4-methylcyclohexane methanol.  I saw a 30 minute report on this last night that covered every angle except saying what the toxin was.  Having a chemical background I was going apeshiat with the glaring hole in the reporting.
 
2014-01-12 06:43:56 PM  
What we need here are not government regulations, but free market solutions.  If there were no EPA, consumers would simply choose another supplier for their coal foaming agent needs.  Now, because of onerous regulations, Freedom Industries might pay a fine.  An eagle is crying - possibly because of coal foaming agent in its eyes.  This is on you libs.
 
2014-01-12 06:46:39 PM  

Hollie Maea: optikeye: But the libertarian's say the free market will take care of this kind of thing because people won't buy Freedom Industries product now.

Sure, if you Hate Freedom (TM), and you want to wage a War On Coal (TM).


www.rightsightings.com
 
2014-01-12 06:47:09 PM  

Mrbogey: optikeye: But the libertarian's say the free market will take care of this kind of thing because people won't buy Freedom Industries product now.

In the libertarian world the aggrieved would demand recompense for the damage done to them. If they can turn a profit while still paying people they keep hurting then they'll stay around. However, it's never a good business model to throw money away just because you're careless. Unless a company gets some kind of subsidy because they're too big to fail, they'll either have to stop leaking chemicals or go out of business.


Now does all this happen before or after the Dance of Liberty around the community garbage fire? And when demanding recompense does the defendant have to be wearing the Speaking Coonskin Hat or is open discourse encouraged?
 
2014-01-12 06:48:00 PM  

berylman: 4-methylcyclohexane methanol


does it have a minty flavor?
 
2014-01-12 06:48:08 PM  

ultraholland: "We are very, very sorry for disruption of everyone's daily life," Southern said.

[i.imgur.com image 480x360]


No kidding. That was probably the most generic and least heartfelt apology I've heard in quite a while.

Freedom Industries: "Look its been a long day for me and I'd like to wrap this up"
WCHS reporter: "It's been a long day for us too and we have a lot of questions"


macrochan.org
 
2014-01-12 06:48:45 PM  

JoieD'Zen: I'd just like to add that WV has more Powerball winners than other states.


In general? 'Cos not "jackpot".

"More jackpot-winning Powerball tickets - 16 since 2003 - have been sold in the Keystone State than any other state or U.S. territory participating in the big multistate lottery game, according to statistics analyzed by The Star-Ledger." ~ [Source, 6 Aug 2013]

MOST POWERBALL JACKPOTS WON

• Pennsylvania - 16
• Indiana - 11
• Louisiana - 8
• Florida - 7
• Missouri - 7
• Iowa - 6
• Minnesota - 6
• South Carolina - 6
• Arizona - 5
• Connecticut - 5
• Kentucky - 5
• Wisconsin - 5
• New York - 4
• Oklahoma - 4
• West Virginia - 4
• Delaware - 3
• Georgia - 3
• Kansas - 3
• New Hampshire - 3
• New Jersey - 3
• New Mexico - 3
• North Carolina - 3
• South Dakota - 3
• Rhode Island - 3
 
2014-01-12 06:49:05 PM  

Mrbogey: optikeye: But the libertarian's say the free market will take care of this kind of thing because people won't buy Freedom Industries product now.

In the libertarian world the aggrieved would demand recompense for the damage done to them. If they can turn a profit while still paying people they keep hurting then they'll stay around. However, it's never a good business model to throw money away just because you're careless. Unless a company gets some kind of subsidy because they're too big to fail, they'll either have to stop leaking chemicals or go out of business.


Assuming, of course, the aggrieved can A) Prove damages (How do you know your sickness was caused by our chemical? Our chemical isn't KNOWN to cause any sicknesses, so you'd better prove it was our chemical that made you sick!) B) Have enough money to withstand the lengthy court battle as the company likely has faaarr deeper pockets to afford lawyers that can throw up roadblock after roablock.
 
2014-01-12 06:49:09 PM  
Imagine what really horrible stuff would be happening if we had smaller government.
 
2014-01-12 06:49:57 PM  
If Freedom Industries didn't pollute the water, some other company would. You can't legislate responsibility. None of the Marxists complaining about this see the irony that they're using computers/iPads/smart phones which would be impossible without oil. All you worshipers of Al Gore just want to make the rest of us live in caves and outlaw the internal combustion engine while Al Gore's carbon footprint stamps on a human face--forever.
 
2014-01-12 06:50:00 PM  

skinink: Imagine what really horrible stuff would be happening if we had smaller government.


Valid point, this is what happens when WV sells its soul to the coal industry.
 
2014-01-12 06:52:12 PM  

GRCooper: As a southern Gary I'm getting a kick ...

/any problem y'all have with West Virginia is with the people - the area is, objectively, chock full of stunning natural beauty


My parents were married in the Shenandoah Valley and said it was some of the most beautiful country they'd ever seen.  Also said they couldn't wait to get out of there.
 
2014-01-12 06:52:19 PM  

best part?

a particular individual: --forever.

don't force it so much, you'll hurt yourself.
 
2014-01-12 06:54:06 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: JoieD'Zen: I'd just like to add that WV has more Powerball winners than other states.

In general? 'Cos not "jackpot".

"More jackpot-winning Powerball tickets - 16 since 2003 - have been sold in the Keystone State than any other state or U.S. territory participating in the big multistate lottery game, according to statistics analyzed by The Star-Ledger." ~ [Source, 6 Aug 2013]

MOST POWERBALL JACKPOTS WON

• Pennsylvania - 16
• Indiana - 11
• Louisiana - 8
• Florida - 7
• Missouri - 7
• Iowa - 6
• Minnesota - 6
• South Carolina - 6
• Arizona - 5
• Connecticut - 5
• Kentucky - 5
• Wisconsin - 5
• New York - 4
• Oklahoma - 4
• West Virginia - 4
• Delaware - 3
• Georgia - 3
• Kansas - 3
• New Hampshire - 3
• New Jersey - 3
• New Mexico - 3
• North Carolina - 3
• South Dakota - 3
• Rhode Island - 3


oh
 
2014-01-12 06:54:42 PM  

berylman: I am so glad this article identified the chemical in question, 4-methylcyclohexane methanol.  I saw a 30 minute report on this last night that covered every angle except saying what the toxin was.  Having a chemical background I was going apeshiat with the glaring hole in the reporting.


They also found a LOT of dihydrogenmonoxide
 
2014-01-12 06:56:24 PM  

ultraholland: best part?

a particular individual: --forever.

don't force it so much, you'll hurt yourself.


Too obvious?
 
2014-01-12 06:56:31 PM  

Wolf_Blitzer: Mrbogey: In the libertarian world the aggrieved would demand recompense for the damage done to them


And who's going to force the company to fork over? It's not like everyone in West Virginia signed a contract that Freedom shouldn't be dumping in their water.


Most of the West Virginia citizenry continue to felate the big coal machine.  It's quite incredible to behold... the corporate worship is just amazing.  "Please, please mista, go ahead and poison our water.  We need our jerbs!"
 
2014-01-12 06:56:32 PM  
He does look punchable. But then again, he is under SOME stress.

/he's really, really sorry.
 
2014-01-12 06:56:38 PM  
First, make him drink the ground water.

Then, have him eat one of the fish from the river:

ts3.mm.bing.net
 
2014-01-12 06:56:39 PM  

Felgraf: Mrbogey: optikeye: But the libertarian's say the free market will take care of this kind of thing because people won't buy Freedom Industries product now.

In the libertarian world the aggrieved would demand recompense for the damage done to them. If they can turn a profit while still paying people they keep hurting then they'll stay around. However, it's never a good business model to throw money away just because you're careless. Unless a company gets some kind of subsidy because they're too big to fail, they'll either have to stop leaking chemicals or go out of business.

Assuming, of course, the aggrieved can A) Prove damages (How do you know your sickness was caused by our chemical? Our chemical isn't KNOWN to cause any sicknesses, so you'd better prove it was our chemical that made you sick!) B) Have enough money to withstand the lengthy court battle as the company likely has faaarr deeper pockets to afford lawyers that can throw up roadblock after roablock.


Also assuming "the aggeieved" aren't DEAD.
 
2014-01-12 06:57:20 PM  

2wolves: WTF Indeed: It's West Virginia, no one should feel bad for West Virginia.

It's a trout river the source of potable water for 300,000 people.  Doesn't matter where it is.

 
2014-01-12 06:57:24 PM  

WTFDYW: He does look punchable. But then again, he is under SOME stress.

/he's really, really sorry.


just get into the jet and go drink the water in Colorado.  That's their life.
 
2014-01-12 06:57:32 PM  

peacheslatour: GRCooper: As a southern Gary I'm getting a kick ...

/any problem y'all have with West Virginia is with the people - the area is, objectively, chock full of stunning natural beauty

My parents were married in the Shenandoah Valley and said it was some of the most beautiful country they'd ever seen.  Also said they couldn't wait to get out of there.


The Shenandoah River Valley is in Virginia.
 
2014-01-12 06:59:14 PM  

a particular individual: If Freedom Industries didn't pollute the water, some other company would. You can't legislate responsibility. None of the Marxists complaining about this see the irony that they're using computers/iPads/smart phones which would be impossible without oil. All you worshipers of Al Gore just want to make the rest of us live in caves and outlaw the internal combustion engine while Al Gore's carbon footprint stamps on a human face--forever.


Go live in Love Canal...
 
2014-01-12 06:59:27 PM  

optikeye: But the libertarian's say the free market will take care of this kind of thing because people won't buy Freedom Industries product now.


Felgraf: Mrbogey: optikeye: But the libertarian's say the free market will take care of this kind of thing because people won't buy Freedom Industries product now.

In the libertarian world the aggrieved would demand recompense for the damage done to them. If they can turn a profit while still paying people they keep hurting then they'll stay around. However, it's never a good business model to throw money away just because you're careless. Unless a company gets some kind of subsidy because they're too big to fail, they'll either have to stop leaking chemicals or go out of business.

Assuming, of course, the aggrieved can A) Prove damages (How do you know your sickness was caused by our chemical? Our chemical isn't KNOWN to cause any sicknesses, so you'd better prove it was our chemical that made you sick!) B) Have enough money to withstand the lengthy court battle as the company likely has faaarr deeper pockets to afford lawyers that can throw up roadblock after roablock.


And even if damage is proved, companies often file for bankruptcy so avoid paying for anything close to the damage they've caused.  A new company emerging from the bankrupt one, often run by the same people.

That, in a nutshell is why the anti-regulation portion of libertarianism is so naive.

Without regulation, individuals going up against a large corporations is like an average guy going up against an NFL football team.  Governments and regulation are the equalizer.
 
2014-01-12 06:59:39 PM  
 
2014-01-12 07:01:03 PM  

RandomRandom: Without regulation, individuals going up against a large corporations is like an average guy going up against an NFL football team. Governments and regulation are the equalizer.


Which is exactly why the constant attacks on the EPA.  The EPA hardly does anything anymore.  The constant attacks are laughable.
 
2014-01-12 07:01:22 PM  

d23: Most of the West Virginia citizenry continue to felate the big coal machine.


In a smelter town next door to my home town (not anywhere near WV), the state was testing school kids for lead, since, you know, smelter. Sure enough, the kids had lead. So did their lawns. So, naturally, the kids' parents did what any responsible parent would do: they made the state quit testing their kids. Problem solved.
 
2014-01-12 07:01:35 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: peacheslatour: GRCooper: As a southern Gary I'm getting a kick ...

/any problem y'all have with West Virginia is with the people - the area is, objectively, chock full of stunning natural beauty

My parents were married in the Shenandoah Valley and said it was some of the most beautiful country they'd ever seen.  Also said they couldn't wait to get out of there.

The Shenandoah River Valley is in Virginia.


Also eastern WV.
 
2014-01-12 07:02:40 PM  

Mike_1962: a particular individual: If Freedom Industries didn't pollute the water, some other company would. You can't legislate responsibility. None of the Marxists complaining about this see the irony that they're using computers/iPads/smart phones which would be impossible without oil. All you worshipers of Al Gore just want to make the rest of us live in caves and outlaw the internal combustion engine while Al Gore's carbon footprint stamps on a human face--forever.

Go live in Love Canal...


Huh huh. Love canal.
epguides.com
 
2014-01-12 07:03:39 PM  

WTFDYW: He does look punchable. But then again, he is under SOME stress.

/he's really, really sorry.


I know, that was so mean of the media to not let him go and instead ask him more hard-hitting questions.

/he REALLY did not want to be there
 
2014-01-12 07:03:53 PM  

Felgraf: Assuming, of course, the aggrieved can A) Prove damages (How do you know your sickness was caused by our chemical? Our chemical isn't KNOWN to cause any sicknesses, so you'd better prove it was our chemical that made you sick!) B) Have enough money to withstand the lengthy court battle as the company likely has faaarr deeper pockets to afford lawyers that can throw up roadblock after roablock.


Also assuming judges are actually impartial. It may be fiction(kinda based on a truish story) but the Appeal by John Grisham is a great example on why judges should be appointed and not elected.
 
2014-01-12 07:05:33 PM  

Felgraf: Mrbogey: optikeye: But the libertarian's say the free market will take care of this kind of thing because people won't buy Freedom Industries product now.

In the libertarian world the aggrieved would demand recompense for the damage done to them. If they can turn a profit while still paying people they keep hurting then they'll stay around. However, it's never a good business model to throw money away just because you're careless. Unless a company gets some kind of subsidy because they're too big to fail, they'll either have to stop leaking chemicals or go out of business.

Assuming, of course, the aggrieved can A) Prove damages (How do you know your sickness was caused by our chemical? Our chemical isn't KNOWN to cause any sicknesses, so you'd better prove it was our chemical that made you sick!) B) Have enough money to withstand the lengthy court battle as the company likely has faaarr deeper pockets to afford lawyers that can throw up roadblock after roablock.


Don't forget that many of the same people that are pushing deregulation are also pushing for tort reform.  So, even if you can prove damages, and you can win in court, you'll only get a pittance.
 
2014-01-12 07:06:36 PM  

WTF Indeed: It's West Virginia, no one should feel bad for West Virginia.


Part of me wants to agree, but then most of the residents are doing their best to keep a job and a home.   They are likely contagiously stupid, but at least it is contained and less likely to spread.
 
2014-01-12 07:07:45 PM  

organizmx: I'm sure plenty of West Virginians would rather die from drinking contaminated water than have a government agency like the EPA getting all involved in their lives to clean it up.

/another red state racing to the bottom


And what makes you think that?

Have you ever been to West Virginia?

Beautiful place, nice people, horribly poor for the most part.

I wouldn't say they're all as crazy or dumb as you may think.  Some of them may be worse.
 
2014-01-12 07:08:06 PM  
At least Freedom Industries owned up, accepted the blame, and did something about it. Unlike Obama, who has yet to apologize for ordering the deaths of four Americans in Benghazi, ordering the IRS to spy on Americans, and ordering Solyndra to take a $500-billion government handout, knowing they would go out of business.
 
2014-01-12 07:10:36 PM  

a particular individual: At least Freedom Industries owned up, accepted the blame, and did something about it. Unlike Obama, who has yet to apologize for ordering the deaths of four Americans in Benghazi, ordering the IRS to spy on Americans, and ordering Solyndra to take a $500-billion government handout, knowing they would go out of business.


Someone has been reading too many comment sections on Christie and this story.
 
2014-01-12 07:12:09 PM  
organizmx /another red state racing to the bottom

So with all the blue states down there now it'll be purple?
http://greatlakesecho.org/2010/06/04/poisoning-michigan-an-author-re vi sits-the-most-widespread-contamination-30-years-later/

http://chronicle.northcoastnow.com/2012/04/24/lake-erie-ranks-in-nat io n's-top-50-for-carcinogens-dumped-into-water/
 
2014-01-12 07:12:09 PM  

Mrbogey: optikeye: But the libertarian's say the free market will take care of this kind of thing because people won't buy Freedom Industries product now.

In the libertarian world the aggrieved would demand recompense for the damage done to them. If they can turn a profit while still paying people they keep hurting then they'll stay around. However, it's never a good business model to throw money away just because you're careless. Unless a company gets some kind of subsidy because they're too big to fail, they'll either have to stop leaking chemicals or go out of business.


You don't understand. That's the explanation. Then, the "libertarians" get Congress to cut off access to the courts in the name of "tort reform."

/Libertarians never factor in the power of bribing public officials.
 
2014-01-12 07:12:35 PM  

Mrbogey: optikeye: But the libertarian's say the free market will take care of this kind of thing because people won't buy Freedom Industries product now.

In the libertarian world the aggrieved would demand recompense for the damage done to them. If they can turn a profit while still paying people they keep hurting then they'll stay around. However, it's never a good business model to throw money away just because you're careless. Unless a company gets some kind of subsidy because they're too big to fail, they'll either have to stop leaking chemicals or go out of business.


Meanwhile, here in the real world they're serving a ginormous market far far away. If that's the case, then screw those hillbillies. Those chemicals ain't gonna sprout legs and walk to China.
 
2014-01-12 07:13:29 PM  

Mrtraveler01: a particular individual: At least Freedom Industries owned up, accepted the blame, and did something about it. Unlike Obama, who has yet to apologize for ordering the deaths of four Americans in Benghazi, ordering the IRS to spy on Americans, and ordering Solyndra to take a $500-billion government handout, knowing they would go out of business.

Someone has been reading too many comment sections on Christie and this story.


Can anyone read too many of those comments?
 
2014-01-12 07:14:57 PM  

a particular individual: Mrtraveler01: a particular individual: At least Freedom Industries owned up, accepted the blame, and did something about it. Unlike Obama, who has yet to apologize for ordering the deaths of four Americans in Benghazi, ordering the IRS to spy on Americans, and ordering Solyndra to take a $500-billion government handout, knowing they would go out of business.

Someone has been reading too many comment sections on Christie and this story.

Can anyone read too many of those comments?


While maintaining faith in humanity? Yes.
 
2014-01-12 07:15:01 PM  

Mrtraveler01: a particular individual: At least Freedom Industries owned up, accepted the blame, and did something about it. Unlike Obama, who has yet to apologize for ordering the deaths of four Americans in Benghazi, ordering the IRS to spy on Americans, and ordering Solyndra to take a $500-billion government handout, knowing they would go out of business.

Someone has been reading too many comment sections on Christie and this story.


Someone else just got trolled.
 
2014-01-12 07:16:00 PM  

optikeye: But the libertarian's say the free market will take care of this kind of thing because people won't buy Freedom Industries product now.


Who even knows what they sell?
 
2014-01-12 07:17:02 PM  

peacheslatour: HotIgneous Intruder: peacheslatour: GRCooper: As a southern Gary I'm getting a kick ...

/any problem y'all have with West Virginia is with the people - the area is, objectively, chock full of stunning natural beauty

My parents were married in the Shenandoah Valley and said it was some of the most beautiful country they'd ever seen.  Also said they couldn't wait to get out of there.

The Shenandoah River Valley is in Virginia.

Also eastern WV.


Not really the pretty part.
 
2014-01-12 07:17:07 PM  

Ambivalence: optikeye: But the libertarian's say the free market will take care of this kind of thing because people won't buy Freedom Industries product now.

Who even knows what they sell?


No one will ever know, if the mainstream liberal media keep suppressing that information.
 
2014-01-12 07:18:07 PM  

Mrtraveler01: a particular individual: Mrtraveler01: a particular individual: At least Freedom Industries owned up, accepted the blame, and did something about it. Unlike Obama, who has yet to apologize for ordering the deaths of four Americans in Benghazi, ordering the IRS to spy on Americans, and ordering Solyndra to take a $500-billion government handout, knowing they would go out of business.

Someone has been reading too many comment sections on Christie and this story.

Can anyone read too many of those comments?

While maintaining faith in humanity? Yes.


A good dose of Ayn Rand should snap them out of it.
 
2014-01-12 07:21:03 PM  
But I thought Business would police itself? Just like pulling Glass-Steagall, there's a reason the regulation was put there in the first place. Looking at Freedom's storage tanks, you'd think they'd never even seen routine maintenance.
 
2014-01-12 07:22:17 PM  

Ambivalence: optikeye: But the libertarian's say the free market will take care of this kind of thing because people won't buy Freedom Industries product now.

Who even knows what they sell?


Here's something interesting http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/01/11/1268990/-Freedom-Industries- H as-Ties-to-Koch-Brothers
 
2014-01-12 07:23:59 PM  
Take a look at the MSDS for 4-Methylcyclohexane Methanol.

Does it cause cancer?  We don't know.
Does it cause birth defects?  We don't know.
Does it explode?  We don't know.
Does it screw up your DNA?  We don't know.
Does it make you cough, or give you a rash, or burn your eyes?  We don't know.

Well, I didn't see a YES answer in there, so by all means lets let this crap out into the big wide world all reckless-like.  Absolutely nothing could go wrong.
 
2014-01-12 07:25:58 PM  

skinink: Imagine what really horrible stuff would be happening if we had smaller government.


You don't have to imagine. Google the Love Canal.
 
2014-01-12 07:27:22 PM  

d23: Most of the West Virginia citizenry continue to felate the big coal machine.  It's quite incredible to behold... the corporate worship is just amazing.  "Please, please mista, go ahead and poison our water.  We need our jerbs!"


Thing is?  Most of West Virginia HATES coal, even the coal workers.  They hate management and they hate the industry for killing their brother/father/uncle.  It's a bit bizarre.
 
2014-01-12 07:28:19 PM  

Hollie Maea: optikeye: But the libertarian's say the free market will take care of this kind of thing because people won't buy Freedom Industries product now.

Sure, if you Hate Freedom (TM), and you want to wage a War On Coal (TM).


I'm good with that.
 
2014-01-12 07:28:31 PM  

Znuh: Looking at Freedom's storage tanks, you'd think they'd never even seen routine maintenance.


Why bother maintaining them if they aren't going to be inspected?

http://www.ibtimes.com/freedom-industries-meet-chemical-provider-cen te r-west-virginia-chemical-spill-1536036

According to NBC, who spoke to the state Department of Environmental Protection, Freedom Industries is exempt from DEP inspection because it only stores chemicals and does not produce them, despite the Freedom Industries website claiming they are producers. It is unclear whether or not the Etowah River Terminal facility does produce chemicals or is only a storage facility.

Kanwaha County Commission President Kent Carper said yesterday that a containment wall meant to prevent chemicals from reaching soil at Freedom Industries was in need of $1 million in repairs, but was never fixed.
 
2014-01-12 07:28:37 PM  

fluffy2097: Google the Love Canal.


NSFW.
 
2014-01-12 07:28:41 PM  

fluffy2097: You don't have to imagine. Google the Love Canal.


You mean Google, which uses petroleum and technology created entirely by the entrepreneurs and capitalism that the far-left Marxists hate so much?
 
2014-01-12 07:29:39 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: d23: Most of the West Virginia citizenry continue to felate the big coal machine.  It's quite incredible to behold... the corporate worship is just amazing.  "Please, please mista, go ahead and poison our water.  We need our jerbs!"

Thing is?  Most of West Virginia HATES coal, even the coal workers.  They hate management and they hate the industry for killing their brother/father/uncle.  It's a bit bizarre.


And yet they punish any political figure who even talks about raising a finger against the coal industry.
 
2014-01-12 07:29:49 PM  

Savoir-Faire: Someone else just got trolled.


Shhh!
 
2014-01-12 07:29:50 PM  
 
2014-01-12 07:30:14 PM  

GRCooper: As a southern Gary I'm getting a kick ...

/any problem y'all have with West Virginia is with the people - the area is, objectively, chock full of stunning natural beauty


Holy crap, yes. I went on a cross-country road trip a few years back and the only place that really floored me was West Virginia. I'd up and move there if it weren't for the people.
 
2014-01-12 07:30:32 PM  
Meh.
My town (Des Moines, Iowa) went over 30 days with no running water back in '93
/get off my lawn.
 
2014-01-12 07:31:10 PM  

Mrbogey: optikeye: But the libertarian's say the free market will take care of this kind of thing because people won't buy Freedom Industries product now.

In the libertarian world the aggrieved would demand recompense for the damage done to them. If they can turn a profit while still paying people they keep hurting then they'll stay around. However, it's never a good business model to throw money away just because you're careless. Unless a company gets some kind of subsidy because they're too big to fail, they'll either have to stop leaking chemicals or go out of business.


Yeah, in fairness, a free market/libertarian system would require courts that is empowered to force Freedom Industries to compensate people for the damage done to them by this spill. If someone had water rights here (and if no private party does, presumably, the state does), there's a shiatton of money that should be paid out.

In practice, our system will almost certainly let them off with far, far less than that. They *are* getting a subsidy, in that regard.
 
2014-01-12 07:31:16 PM  
Is it going to take people being killed before the righties see a valid reason for some industry regulation?
 
2014-01-12 07:31:46 PM  
I've got family in WV (Logan County, in the heart of coal country), and while it is a naturally stunning state, some towns look like a former Soviet republic. Granted, that statement could apply to most of Appalachia.
 
2014-01-12 07:32:11 PM  
Hand him a bottle of that sh*t and let him drink that.
 
2014-01-12 07:32:44 PM  

Mrbogey: optikeye: But the libertarian's say the free market will take care of this kind of thing because people won't buy Freedom Industries product now.

In the libertarian world the aggrieved would demand recompense for the damage done to them. If they can turn a profit while still paying people they keep hurting then they'll stay around. However, it's never a good business model to throw money away just because you're careless. Unless a company gets some kind of subsidy because they're too big to fail, they'll either have to stop leaking chemicals or go out of business.


The problem is the aggrieved are generally good to be able to scrape up enough change to buy a McNugget while the company can lawyer up hard enough to steamroll everyone flat.

You can "demand recompense" all you want, but unless you have the legal might to back it up, you're just some guy standing on the sidewalk stamping your feet in anger.
 
2014-01-12 07:34:13 PM  

Cpl.D: Is it going to take people being killed before the righties see a valid reason for some industry regulation?


Not until enough Republican voterss get killed to make a difference in November.
 
2014-01-12 07:36:29 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: d23: Most of the West Virginia citizenry continue to felate the big coal machine.  It's quite incredible to behold... the corporate worship is just amazing.  "Please, please mista, go ahead and poison our water.  We need our jerbs!"

Thing is?  Most of West Virginia HATES coal, even the coal workers.  They hate management and they hate the industry for killing their brother/father/uncle.  It's a bit bizarre.


But they are good with their propaganda.

stateimpact.npr.org

www.wvpolicy.org

1.bp.blogspot.com

farm4.staticflickr.com

farm4.static.flickr.com
 
2014-01-12 07:37:32 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Znuh: Looking at Freedom's storage tanks, you'd think they'd never even seen routine maintenance.

Why bother maintaining them if they aren't going to be inspected?

http://www.ibtimes.com/freedom-industries-meet-chemical-provider-cen te r-west-virginia-chemical-spill-1536036

According to NBC, who spoke to the state Department of Environmental Protection, Freedom Industries is exempt from DEP inspection because it only stores chemicals and does not produce them, despite the Freedom Industries website claiming they are producers. It is unclear whether or not the Etowah River Terminal facility does produce chemicals or is only a storage facility.

Kanwaha County Commission President Kent Carper said yesterday that a containment wall meant to prevent chemicals from reaching soil at Freedom Industries was in need of $1 million in repairs, but was never fixed.


Lovely.
 
2014-01-12 07:38:03 PM  
In NY, there were 12,154 reported spills last year.
And here's a map of leaking tanks in Michigan: http://circleofblue.org/LUST.html

if you're ever curious about what federally reported waste sites are near you: http://www.epa.gov/emefdata/em4ef.home

Oh well. nobody cares.
 
2014-01-12 07:40:37 PM  

propasaurus: I want to punch him just for "Freedom Industries."


I want to punch him just for the name "Gary Southern."
 
2014-01-12 07:41:19 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Satanic_Hamster: d23: Most of the West Virginia citizenry continue to felate the big coal machine.  It's quite incredible to behold... the corporate worship is just amazing.  "Please, please mista, go ahead and poison our water.  We need our jerbs!"

Thing is?  Most of West Virginia HATES coal, even the coal workers.  They hate management and they hate the industry for killing their brother/father/uncle.  It's a bit bizarre.

But they are good with their propaganda.

[stateimpact.npr.org image 620x348]

[www.wvpolicy.org image 551x330]

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 512x384]

[farm4.staticflickr.com image 500x334]

[farm4.static.flickr.com image 240x180]


Oh yea there are some good ones along the PA turnpike...

like "wind dies. sun sets."

and my personal favorite:

"YOUR TAX DOLLARS SUBSIDIZE WIND ENERGY" to which I want to put a billboard that says "...and also oil, coal, and natural gas. What's your point?"
 
2014-01-12 07:45:23 PM  

Shadi: In NY, there were 12,154 reported spills last year.
And here's a map of leaking tanks in Michigan: http://circleofblue.org/LUST.html

if you're ever curious about what federally reported waste sites are near you: http://www.epa.gov/emefdata/em4ef.home

Oh well. nobody cares.


Believe me I know. I live 5 miles from a landfill that has old radioactive waste that became Fark worthy.

http://m.fark.com/comments/7739464/Not-News-St-Louis-area-landfill-s me lling-particularly-bad-today-News-Because-of-underground-fires-Fark-St ate-officials-have-said-possibility-of-fires-reaching-radioactive-mate rials-is-remote

I also live about 10-15 miles away from a WWII era landfill that's become a park.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weldon_Spring_Ordnance_Works

bobmccarty.com
 
2014-01-12 07:46:28 PM  

fusillade762: Is he drinking the Obama water?


ballotvox.prx.org
 
2014-01-12 07:46:36 PM  

Dougie AXP: Mrtraveler01: Satanic_Hamster: d23: Most of the West Virginia citizenry continue to felate the big coal machine.  It's quite incredible to behold... the corporate worship is just amazing.  "Please, please mista, go ahead and poison our water.  We need our jerbs!"

Thing is?  Most of West Virginia HATES coal, even the coal workers.  They hate management and they hate the industry for killing their brother/father/uncle.  It's a bit bizarre.

But they are good with their propaganda.

[stateimpact.npr.org image 620x348]

[www.wvpolicy.org image 551x330]

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 512x384]

[farm4.staticflickr.com image 500x334]

[farm4.static.flickr.com image 240x180]

Oh yea there are some good ones along the PA turnpike...

like "wind dies. sun sets."

and my personal favorite:

"YOUR TAX DOLLARS SUBSIDIZE WIND ENERGY" to which I want to put a billboard that says "...and also oil, coal, and natural gas. What's your point?"


I've seen those too when I'm back there. And now it looks like the Fracking Industry is trying to copy them and their propaganda too so now PA gets double the entertaining billboards.
 
2014-01-12 07:47:20 PM  
Big deal, Cleveland has still got you beat.

img.fark.net
 
2014-01-12 07:49:18 PM  

Hollie Maea: Satanic_Hamster: d23: Most of the West Virginia citizenry continue to felate the big coal machine.  It's quite incredible to behold... the corporate worship is just amazing.  "Please, please mista, go ahead and poison our water.  We need our jerbs!"

Thing is?  Most of West Virginia HATES coal, even the coal workers.  They hate management and they hate the industry for killing their brother/father/uncle.  It's a bit bizarre.

And yet they punish any political figure who even talks about raising a finger against the coal industry.


No, the COAL industry does that.

There's been actual shooting wars fought, with a plane dropping bombs on American citizens, over the abuses the average man suffers at the hand of the coal industry.
 
2014-01-12 07:49:31 PM  

cretinbob: fusillade762: Is he drinking the Obama water?

[ballotvox.prx.org image 500x333]


If they actually sent that to these people, that would be the greatest troll ever.
 
2014-01-12 07:51:02 PM  

a particular individual: If Freedom Industries didn't pollute the water, some other company would. You can't legislate responsibility. None of the Marxists complaining about this see the irony that they're using computers/iPads/smart phones which would be impossible without oil. All you worshipers of Al Gore just want to make the rest of us live in caves and outlaw the internal combustion engine while Al Gore's carbon footprint stamps on a human face--forever.


static3.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2014-01-12 07:51:44 PM  

doglover: No, the COAL industry does that.

There's been actual shooting wars fought, with a plane dropping bombs on American citizens, over the abuses the average man suffers at the hand of the coal industry.


That doesn't account for election results.  The coal industry absolutely does wage a propaganda war, but they aren't the ones pulling the lever on election day.
 
2014-01-12 07:53:49 PM  

Mrbogey: Unless a company gets some kind of subsidy because they're too big to fail, they'll either have to stop leaking chemicals or go out of business.


Or, you know, sell their product in a market halfway around the world that doesn't care. Globalism sort of dissipated the last shreds of illusion that the free market would ever regulate businesses in an economy larger than a village in scale.
 
2014-01-12 07:57:14 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Dougie AXP: Mrtraveler01: Satanic_Hamster: d23: Most of the West Virginia citizenry continue to felate the big coal machine.  It's quite incredible to behold... the corporate worship is just amazing.  "Please, please mista, go ahead and poison our water.  We need our jerbs!"

Thing is?  Most of West Virginia HATES coal, even the coal workers.  They hate management and they hate the industry for killing their brother/father/uncle.  It's a bit bizarre.

But they are good with their propaganda.

[stateimpact.npr.org image 620x348]

[www.wvpolicy.org image 551x330]

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 512x384]

[farm4.staticflickr.com image 500x334]

[farm4.static.flickr.com image 240x180]

Oh yea there are some good ones along the PA turnpike...

like "wind dies. sun sets."

and my personal favorite:

"YOUR TAX DOLLARS SUBSIDIZE WIND ENERGY" to which I want to put a billboard that says "...and also oil, coal, and natural gas. What's your point?"

I've seen those too when I'm back there. And now it looks like the Fracking Industry is trying to copy them and their propaganda too so now PA gets double the entertaining billboards.


I just drove Philly to Pittsburgh today. I didn't see any Fracking ones. Now that the "gold rush" has calmed down, people aren't getting uppity as much.
 
2014-01-12 07:57:29 PM  

Hollie Maea: doglover: No, the COAL industry does that.

There's been actual shooting wars fought, with a plane dropping bombs on American citizens, over the abuses the average man suffers at the hand of the coal industry.

That doesn't account for election results.  The coal industry absolutely does wage a propaganda war, but they aren't the ones pulling the lever on election day.


Poison Gas.

They used poison gas.

The US government used poison gas on it's own citizens to protect the interests of mining companies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain
 
2014-01-12 08:03:50 PM  

Skunkwolf: Hollie Maea: doglover: No, the COAL industry does that.

There's been actual shooting wars fought, with a plane dropping bombs on American citizens, over the abuses the average man suffers at the hand of the coal industry.

That doesn't account for election results.  The coal industry absolutely does wage a propaganda war, but they aren't the ones pulling the lever on election day.

Poison Gas.

They used poison gas.

The US government used poison gas on it's own citizens to protect the interests of mining companies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain


That shiat is farked up.  Jesus Christ.
 
2014-01-12 08:06:17 PM  

Dougie AXP: I just drove Philly to Pittsburgh today. I didn't see any Fracking ones. Now that the "gold rush" has calmed down, people aren't getting uppity as much.


I think the industry in PA has realized that the more they keep fracking in people's minds, the more they'll have negative consequences of it.
 
2014-01-12 08:07:10 PM  
Obama isn't killing coal, the free market is. Deregulation of frakking and the rising popularity of green energy is making the difficult and expensive to obtain coal a lot, lot less desirable. Obama is just a convenient scapegoat because people would rather believe he's a malicious boogeyman out to kill their job as opposed to a changing market that their not keeping up with.
 
2014-01-12 08:07:31 PM  

Skunkwolf: Hollie Maea: doglover: No, the COAL industry does that.

There's been actual shooting wars fought, with a plane dropping bombs on American citizens, over the abuses the average man suffers at the hand of the coal industry.

That doesn't account for election results.  The coal industry absolutely does wage a propaganda war, but they aren't the ones pulling the lever on election day.

Poison Gas.

They used poison gas.

The US government used poison gas on it's own citizens to protect the interests of mining companies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain


Now we just send our children to the meat grinder over seas.
 
2014-01-12 08:07:43 PM  

Mrbogey: optikeye: But the libertarian's say the free market will take care of this kind of thing because people won't buy Freedom Industries product now.

In the libertarian world the aggrieved would demand recompense for the damage done to them. If they can turn a profit while still paying people they keep hurting then they'll stay around. However, it's never a good business model to throw money away just because you're careless. Unless a company gets some kind of subsidy because they're too big to fail, they'll either have to stop leaking chemicals or go out of business.


The molecules all have the company logo stamped on them so you know where the pollution is coming from.
 
2014-01-12 08:08:31 PM  
No Marco Rubio gifs?
 
2014-01-12 08:11:19 PM  

Hollie Maea: Skunkwolf: Hollie Maea: doglover: No, the COAL industry does that.

There's been actual shooting wars fought, with a plane dropping bombs on American citizens, over the abuses the average man suffers at the hand of the coal industry.

That doesn't account for election results.  The coal industry absolutely does wage a propaganda war, but they aren't the ones pulling the lever on election day.

Poison Gas.

They used poison gas.

The US government used poison gas on it's own citizens to protect the interests of mining companies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain

That shiat is farked up.  Jesus Christ.


Yeah. You should read your history books.
 
2014-01-12 08:12:04 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Dougie AXP: I just drove Philly to Pittsburgh today. I didn't see any Fracking ones. Now that the "gold rush" has calmed down, people aren't getting uppity as much.

I think the industry in PA has realized that the more they keep fracking in people's minds, the more they'll have negative consequences of it.


I can't imagine living in that area.
 
2014-01-12 08:13:33 PM  
 
2014-01-12 08:14:54 PM  

optikeye: But the libertarian's say the free market will take care of this kind of thing because people won't buy Freedom Industries product now.


I hear that sales are indeed down.
 
2014-01-12 08:24:13 PM  

berylman: I am so glad this article identified the chemical in question, 4-methylcyclohexane methanol.  I saw a 30 minute report on this last night that covered every angle except saying what the toxin was.  Having a chemical background I was going apeshiat with the glaring hole in the reporting.


That hole in the reporting isn't really filled, because apparently nobody knows anything about that chemical, and chemists everywhere are baffled by the name, which doesn't conform to any IUPAC standard.  (4-methylcyclohexyl)methanol or 1-hydroxy-4-methylcyclohexane would be more appropriate.
 
2014-01-12 08:29:10 PM  

Mrbogey: optikeye: But the libertarian's say the free market will take care of this kind of thing because people won't buy Freedom Industries product now.

In the libertarian world the aggrieved would demand recompense for the damage done to them. If they can turn a profit while still paying people they keep hurting then they'll stay around. However, it's never a good business model to throw money away just because you're careless. Unless a company gets some kind of subsidy because they're too big to fail, they'll either have to stop leaking chemicals or go out of business. be farked because the shell company which owns the offending party would fold up, and the owners would reopen in a different area under a new shell company with new management and fark up another community. They'd never be held accountable and the citizenry would be completely outmaneuvered over and over again.



FTFY

This is just one of many ways (others have pointed out some more earlier in the thread) that the libertarian fantasy simply fails when practically implemented. It would be a dystopian world filled with the rich stomping on the rest of society forever.
 
2014-01-12 08:29:57 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: peacheslatour: GRCooper: As a southern Gary I'm getting a kick ...

/any problem y'all have with West Virginia is with the people - the area is, objectively, chock full of stunning natural beauty

My parents were married in the Shenandoah Valley and said it was some of the most beautiful country they'd ever seen.  Also said they couldn't wait to get out of there.

The Shenandoah River Valley is in Virginia.


And does pass through West Virginia.  It must not have gotten the memo.
 
2014-01-12 08:32:06 PM  

fusillade762: Mrtraveler01: Znuh: Looking at Freedom's storage tanks, you'd think they'd never even seen routine maintenance.

Why bother maintaining them if they aren't going to be inspected?

http://www.ibtimes.com/freedom-industries-meet-chemical-provider-cen te r-west-virginia-chemical-spill-1536036

According to NBC, who spoke to the state Department of Environmental Protection, Freedom Industries is exempt from DEP inspection because it only stores chemicals and does not produce them, despite the Freedom Industries website claiming they are producers. It is unclear whether or not the Etowah River Terminal facility does produce chemicals or is only a storage facility.

Kanwaha County Commission President Kent Carper said yesterday that a containment wall meant to prevent chemicals from reaching soil at Freedom Industries was in need of $1 million in repairs, but was never fixed.

Lovely.


Mass can't be created.    The chemicals have always existed they just store them together in mixing tanks.
 
2014-01-12 08:33:34 PM  

Aquapope: Take a look at the MSDS for 4-Methylcyclohexane Methanol.

Does it cause cancer?  We don't know.
Does it cause birth defects?  We don't know.
Does it explode?  We don't know.
Does it screw up your DNA?  We don't know.
Does it make you cough, or give you a rash, or burn your eyes?  We don't know.

Well, I didn't see a YES answer in there, so by all means lets let this crap out into the big wide world all reckless-like.  Absolutely nothing could go wrong.


The article I read this morning stated at the beginning that they didn't know, but at the end that they (the Army Corps of Engineers) were waiting until it was diluted to .1 part/million.
 
2014-01-12 08:36:34 PM  
Freedom is owned by the mega-rich Koch brothers FYI.
/living through the Aquapolypse in one of the affected counties
//Charleston PR firm has dropped Freedom  as a client after the Southern fiasco
 
2014-01-12 08:37:27 PM  

Bondith: That hole in the reporting isn't really filled, because apparently nobody knows anything about that chemical, and chemists everywhere are baffled by the name, which doesn't conform to any IUPAC standard.  (4-methylcyclohexyl)methanol or 1-hydroxy-4-methylcyclohexane would be more appropriate.


Curses! You figured it out. They thought that was an unbreakable code.

But it's "clean coal." And "freedom fracking."
 
2014-01-12 08:39:37 PM  
Super boobs will shut this dumb ass up.


i94.photobucket.com
 
2014-01-12 08:39:58 PM  

JoieD'Zen: Satanic_Hamster: Dougie AXP: I just drove Philly to Pittsburgh today. I didn't see any Fracking ones. Now that the "gold rush" has calmed down, people aren't getting uppity as much.

I think the industry in PA has realized that the more they keep fracking in people's minds, the more they'll have negative consequences of it.

I can't imagine living in that area.


And here's the thing; PA is VERY friendly to heavy industry.  They're been a coal/steel/rail/manufacturing state for 150 years.  It's VERY ingrained in the people's mind.

And THEY'RE turning against fracking.  THAT'S how badly fracking has farked up in PA.

Said it before years ago:  fracking is a very useful, economic, powerful technique that the industry is going to get banned by total incompetent and overuse and by mindless covering of their reckless members.  For the life of me, I don't understand why the industry is willing to farkover their long term prospects by covering for the short term profits of a few jagoffs.
 
2014-01-12 08:41:05 PM  

squealie: //Charleston PR firm has dropped Freedom  as a client after the Southern fiasco


It takes a lot to make Tony Hayward look competent in comparison and Gary Southern managed to do it with that disaster of a press conference.

Southern: "It's been a long day and I don't want to be here, can I go now?
Media: "We haven't even begun to start asking the hard hitting questions we want you to answer"

The drinking the water bottle during the press conference, was just another dick move.
 
2014-01-12 08:42:54 PM  

underwhere: GRCooper: As a southern Gary I'm getting a kick ...

/any problem y'all have with West Virginia is with the people - the area is, objectively, chock full of stunning natural beauty

Holy crap, yes. I went on a cross-country road trip a few years back and the only place that really floored me was West Virginia. I'd up and move there if it weren't for the people.


The place I want to live is Highland county VA. It's right on the WVA line (about halfway down the VA/WVA line, the part that juts into WVA west of Staunton VA).

It's the highest average elevation for any county east of the Mississippi as well as the lowest population - 2k for the entire county.

Beautiful area

/also the source for both the Potomac and James rivers
//there's a nice place with 700 acres for $1.2 million I have my eye on
///almost there - only about $1.2 million to go ...
 
2014-01-12 08:43:20 PM  
sdd2000:

Cue the Texas politicians who will invite them to move to Texas with Texas's lower regulations

www.txstate.edu

/ you ain't from around here, are ya boy ...
 
2014-01-12 08:43:56 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Said it before years ago:  fracking is a very useful, economic, powerful technique that the industry is going to get banned by total incompetent and overuse and by mindless covering of their reckless members.  For the life of me, I don't understand why the industry is willing to farkover their long term prospects by covering for the short term profits of a few jagoffs.


I'm not sure where/why you're confused?
 
2014-01-12 08:44:39 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Said it before years ago:  fracking is a very useful, economic, powerful technique that the industry is going to get banned by total incompetent and overuse and by mindless covering of their reckless members.  For the life of me, I don't understand why the industry is willing to farkover their long term prospects by covering for the short term profits of a few jagoffs.


Because like other companies, they can't look beyond the short-term.

It baffles me too. I don't see how keeping everything top secret is supposed to win people over who are skeptical of your practices. No matter how many fluffy commercials companies like Range Resources put out, doesn't change the fact that they dick around with the State of PA as well as local governments to keep from disclosing anything about what they actually do.

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/440/game-chan ge r
 
2014-01-12 08:48:48 PM  
How are they bathing/showering? How are they washing their clothes, etc.? You can cook with bottled water but the rest?

EWWWWWWWWWW


bbsimg.ngfiles.com

thevoicesinherhead.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-01-12 08:56:42 PM  

Mrbogey: optikeye: But the libertarian's say the free market will take care of this kind of thing because people won't buy Freedom Industries product now.

In the libertarian world the aggrieved would demand recompense for the damage done to them. If they can turn a profit while still paying people they keep hurting then they'll stay around. However, it's never a good business model to throw money away just because you're careless. Unless a company gets some kind of subsidy because they're too big to fail, they'll either have to stop leaking chemicals or go out of business.


Oh no. In libertarian paradise there is no such legal term for tort. it's every man for himself. the public would have to exact their revenge with guns ,pitchforks and torches.
 
2014-01-12 08:56:57 PM  

doglover: Yeah. You should read your history books.


I've read it before.  It doesn't really change any of my arguments though.
 
2014-01-12 08:59:56 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: For the life of me, I don't understand why the industry is willing to farkover their long term prospects by covering for the short term profits of a few jagoffs.


That's what industry does, when left to its own devices.
 
2014-01-12 09:02:59 PM  

Hobodeluxe: Oh no. In libertarian paradise there is no such legal term for tort. it's every man for himself. the public would have to exact their revenge with guns ,pitchforks and torches.


Any time you talk to a libertarian and you ask them questions about how their system would deal with various real world situations, eventually they end up describing a system essentially the same as what we currently have in the United States.
 
2014-01-12 09:06:22 PM  

Skunkwolf: The US government used poison gas on it's own citizens to protect the interests of mining companies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain


From the link it was the coal company using gas and dropping bombs, but still. Yikes.

Thanks for the link, I did not know about that.
 
2014-01-12 09:07:54 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: JoieD'Zen: Satanic_Hamster: Dougie AXP: I just drove Philly to Pittsburgh today. I didn't see any Fracking ones. Now that the "gold rush" has calmed down, people aren't getting uppity as much.

I think the industry in PA has realized that the more they keep fracking in people's minds, the more they'll have negative consequences of it.

I can't imagine living in that area.

And here's the thing; PA is VERY friendly to heavy industry.  They're been a coal/steel/rail/manufacturing state for 150 years.  It's VERY ingrained in the people's mind.

And THEY'RE turning against fracking.  THAT'S how badly fracking has farked up in PA.

Said it before years ago:  fracking is a very useful, economic, powerful technique that the industry is going to get banned by total incompetent and overuse and by mindless covering of their reckless members.  For the life of me, I don't understand why the industry is willing to farkover their long term prospects by covering for the short term profits of a few jagoffs.


I could say so much.
I have sincere hopes that all the people affected by this debacle .are safe and healthy.
I wish I could help more.
Their lives have been destroyed, as well as the lives of future generations.
There is NO excuse for this negligence and gross disregard for consequences; NONE.

Btw - In PA you can't buy  6 pack or weed, right?
 
2014-01-12 09:10:52 PM  

squealie: Freedom is owned by the mega-rich Koch brothers FYI.
/living through the Aquapolypse in one of the affected counties
//Charleston PR firm has dropped Freedom  as a client after the Southern fiasco


They probably also own a company that makes bottled water from one last clean well somewhere, so it is all good for them, plus the water will probably be transported on their train and/or truck lines. Double plus good.
 
2014-01-12 09:15:04 PM  

JoieD'Zen: Satanic_Hamster: JoieD'Zen: Satanic_Hamster: Dougie AXP: I just drove Philly to Pittsburgh today. I didn't see any Fracking ones. Now that the "gold rush" has calmed down, people aren't getting uppity as much.

I think the industry in PA has realized that the more they keep fracking in people's minds, the more they'll have negative consequences of it.

I can't imagine living in that area.

And here's the thing; PA is VERY friendly to heavy industry.  They're been a coal/steel/rail/manufacturing state for 150 years.  It's VERY ingrained in the people's mind.

And THEY'RE turning against fracking.  THAT'S how badly fracking has farked up in PA.

Said it before years ago:  fracking is a very useful, economic, powerful technique that the industry is going to get banned by total incompetent and overuse and by mindless covering of their reckless members.  For the life of me, I don't understand why the industry is willing to farkover their long term prospects by covering for the short term profits of a few jagoffs.

I could say so much.
I have sincere hopes that all the people affected by this debacle .are safe and healthy.
I wish I could help more.
Their lives have been destroyed, as well as the lives of future generations.
There is NO excuse for this negligence and gross disregard for consequences; NONE.

Btw - In PA you can't buy  6 pack or weed, right?


PA Ain't turning against fracking. If anything the states DEP is at the forefront of regulations for the industry. And the heavy hitters, ExxonMobil, Shell, Chevron etc are playing ball because they can afford to and it forces the other smaller to middle size companies (i.e. the ones who royally fark shiat up) out.

The difference is: PA (most of PA anyway) is what we call "Dry Gas" as in, its almost all Methane and Water. Knock out the water and boom straight into pipeline.

The price of gas right now is driving focus towards plays that produce oil as well as NG. So thats why North Dakota is booming.

PA Fracking isn't going anywhere. It's just on the backburner now that the original leases are coming to production and rig counts are moving elsewhere.
 
2014-01-12 09:24:04 PM  

squealie: Freedom is owned by the mega-rich Koch brothers FYI.
/living through the Aquapolypse in one of the affected counties
//Charleston PR firm has dropped Freedom  as a client after the Southern fiasco


They will be out of business in three months.   The PR firm, I mean. Freedom will change names and carry on with Koch brothers protection.
 
2014-01-12 09:25:33 PM  
assets.nydailynews.com
 
2014-01-12 09:26:45 PM  

TheGogmagog: Freedom will change names and carry on with Koch brothers protection.


Coming soon: LIBERTY CHEMICALS.
 
2014-01-12 09:34:20 PM  

a particular individual: If Freedom Industries didn't pollute the water, some other company would. You can't legislate responsibility. None of the Marxists complaining about this see the irony that they're using computers/iPads/smart phones which would be impossible without oil. All you worshipers of Al Gore just want to make the rest of us live in caves and outlaw the internal combustion engine while Al Gore's carbon footprint stamps on a human face--forever.


Grrrr, you exposed our communist hippie plot to destroy all modern technology and force people to wipe themselves with leaves! By Saten I shall defeat all the real true Americans and usher in a Stalinist dystopia grrrrr.
 
2014-01-12 09:37:05 PM  

RandomRandom: optikeye: But the libertarian's say the free market will take care of this kind of thing because people won't buy Freedom Industries product now.

Felgraf: Mrbogey: optikeye: But the libertarian's say the free market will take care of this kind of thing because people won't buy Freedom Industries product now.

In the libertarian world the aggrieved would demand recompense for the damage done to them. If they can turn a profit while still paying people they keep hurting then they'll stay around. However, it's never a good business model to throw money away just because you're careless. Unless a company gets some kind of subsidy because they're too big to fail, they'll either have to stop leaking chemicals or go out of business.

Assuming, of course, the aggrieved can A) Prove damages (How do you know your sickness was caused by our chemical? Our chemical isn't KNOWN to cause any sicknesses, so you'd better prove it was our chemical that made you sick!) B) Have enough money to withstand the lengthy court battle as the company likely has faaarr deeper pockets to afford lawyers that can throw up roadblock after roablock.

And even if damage is proved, companies often file for bankruptcy so avoid paying for anything close to the damage they've caused.  A new company emerging from the bankrupt one, often run by the same people.

That, in a nutshell is why the anti-regulation portion of libertarianism is so naive.

Without regulation, individuals going up against a large corporations is like an average guy going up against an NFL football team.  Governments and regulation are the equalizer.



For instance, read up on the bullshiat that the WV victims of the coal industry's Buffalo Creek disaster were faced with in trying to get some compensation from the company. And that's practically a best-case scenario, compared to how the current contamination situation would play out in a libertarian environment.

/ideally a libertarian system should feature strong labor/consumer orgs to take up some of the slack... bwahahaha, yeah
 
2014-01-12 09:38:17 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Satanic_Hamster: d23: Most of the West Virginia citizenry continue to felate the big coal machine.  It's quite incredible to behold... the corporate worship is just amazing.  "Please, please mista, go ahead and poison our water.  We need our jerbs!"

Thing is?  Most of West Virginia HATES coal, even the coal workers.  They hate management and they hate the industry for killing their brother/father/uncle.  It's a bit bizarre.

But they are good with their propaganda.

[stateimpact.npr.org image 620x348]

[www.wvpolicy.org image 551x330]

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 512x384]

[farm4.staticflickr.com image 500x334]

[farm4.static.flickr.com image 240x180]


Reminds me of former Soviet Union.....
 
2014-01-12 09:41:40 PM  
He could go work in the Christie administration.
 
2014-01-12 09:45:53 PM  

propasaurus: I want to punch him just for "Freedom Industries."


They are in the news right now for freeing chemicals.  What more could you want?
 
2014-01-12 09:47:12 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: For the life of me, I don't understand why the industry is willing to farkover their long term prospects by covering for the short term profits of a few jagoffs.


Because it isn't their problem, or at least it won't be by the time they've collected their bonuses for the short term profits and jumped ship to start a consulting firm somewhere else.
 
2014-01-12 09:49:14 PM  
Southern said his company seeks to be transparent in its handling of the situation.

Southern did not spend much time responding to reporters' questions. When pressed for specifics, he repeatedly attempted to end the press conference.


Off to a good start with that transparency stuff
 
2014-01-12 09:58:19 PM  

jaytkay: Skunkwolf: The US government used poison gas on it's own citizens to protect the interests of mining companies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain

From the link it was the coal company using gas and dropping bombs, but still. Yikes.

Thanks for the link, I did not know about that.


This  is a bit dry, but it explains the governments role a little more.
This isn't a bad choice for movie night sometime.
 
2014-01-12 10:05:49 PM  

d23: Which is exactly why the constant attacks on the EPA. The EPA hardly does anything anymore. The constant attacks are laughable.


That left attacks the EPA for not doing enough.  The right attacks the EPA for even existing.

Water testing is typically the job of localities, and many municipal water providers don't give a fark.  No direct EPA involvement.    The answer is not less regulation, but somewhat more.   It would be nice to put some real consequences on municipalities that failing the public, as happened here.

That this spill was only found because residents noticed a licorice smell in their water is a travesty.
 
2014-01-12 10:08:51 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Said it before years ago: fracking is a very useful, economic, powerful technique that the industry is going to get banned by total incompetent and overuse and by mindless covering of their reckless members.


That's the sad thing. This technique could make the United States self-sufficient in energy for a while, and make a lot of people a lot of money even if they played by the rules and did things clean. But the dumbfarks have decided that the best way to deal with flammable water coming out of kitchen faucets is to circle the wagons and clam up.
 
2014-01-12 10:11:34 PM  

RandomRandom: Governments and regulation are the equalizer.


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

You know for regulations that help corporations screw the little guy you need to first have a gov't strong enough to enforce unfair laws.

Felgraf: Assuming, of course, the aggrieved can A) Prove damages (How do you know your sickness was caused by our chemical? Our chemical isn't KNOWN to cause any sicknesses, so you'd better prove it was our chemical that made you sick!) B) Have enough money to withstand the lengthy court battle as the company likely has faaarr deeper pockets to afford lawyers that can throw up roadblock after roablock.


You have to assume a lot. It's already known the chemicals cause damage. If they didn't then there wouldn't be much of an issue. On the flip side, Big WiFi clearly has us all led into believing WiFi is harmless when clearly it causes all kinds of cancers...

yakmans_dad: /Libertarians never factor in the power of bribing public officials.


The anti-Libertarian believes that politicians can be bribed by corporations BUT if we give those same politicians tons of powers they'll magically become immune to bribery.

Ivan the Tolerable: Or, you know, sell their product in a market halfway around the world that doesn't care.


That has nothing to do with facing legal recourse in the area they affected.

mongbiohazard: This is just one of many ways (others have pointed out some more earlier in the thread) that the libertarian fantasy simply fails when practically implemented. It would be a dystopian world filled with the rich stomping on the rest of society forever.


I miss the old days when the poor ruled the world and equality ensured everyone a long healthy life.
 
2014-01-12 10:15:08 PM  

Hollie Maea: Satanic_Hamster: For the life of me, I don't understand why the industry is willing to farkover their long term prospects by covering for the short term profits of a few jagoffs.

That's what industry does, when left to its own devices.


See also: Palmerton, PA.
 
2014-01-12 10:19:02 PM  

theorellior: But the dumbfarks have decided that the best way to deal with flammable water coming out of kitchen faucets is to circle the wagons and clam up.


Or you know, use science to prove that the people claiming fracking made their faucets flammable are lying. Science is clearly the tools of dumbfarks.
 
2014-01-12 10:22:01 PM  

JoieD'Zen: Satanic_Hamster: Dougie AXP: I just drove Philly to Pittsburgh today. I didn't see any Fracking ones. Now that the "gold rush" has calmed down, people aren't getting uppity as much.

I think the industry in PA has realized that the more they keep fracking in people's minds, the more they'll have negative consequences of it.

I can't imagine living in that area.


I was up there this past summer.
I bought a couple of bottles of water in a supermarket and the check-out girl commented to me on how inexpensive those bottles of water were, as though I were being let in on a secret.

Drinking water is a right, not a consumer commodity.
And they're destroying watersheds, possibly for ever, for the sake of some truck driving jobs for some idiot oilfield trash who will go home to crap-hole states like Texas and Oklahoma and die of cancer in their 40s.

In the bathroom of the quickie mart I stopped in, the graffitti on the wall was all about the oil field trash, telling them to go home and how fracking was confederate revenge. Another scrawl said simply, "FU@K, FIGHT, AND LAY PIPE."
 
2014-01-12 10:26:48 PM  
Mrbogey:
mongbiohazard: This is just one of many ways (others have pointed out some more earlier in the thread) that the libertarian fantasy simply fails when practically implemented. It would be a dystopian world filled with the rich stomping on the rest of society forever.

I miss the old days when the poor ruled the world and equality ensured everyone a long healthy life.



The point you're trying to make is pretty dumb for anyone with the barest grasp on the progress we've made in general in the 20th century. We've gone from company towns to OSHA.

America has forgotten a lot of big lessons and is starting to slide backwards, but our country raised shiat tons of people out of poverty, came up with great protections for workers and made the common man more affluent here then almost anywhere else ever. And Libertarians want to tear it all down and replace it with new corporate run feudalism.

That there's a lot left to do in no way diminishes the progress that has been made.
 
2014-01-12 10:39:13 PM  

theorellior: But the dumbfarks have decided that the best way to deal with flammable water coming out of kitchen faucets is to circle the wagons and clam up.


And put up these billboards (which btw is promoting a "documentary" that was heavily promoted by the fracking industry:

images.politico.com

Mrbogey: You know for regulations that help corporations screw the little guy you need to first have a gov't strong enough to enforce unfair laws.


Whereas without those regulations, the corporations screw the little guy much faster.
 
2014-01-12 11:00:30 PM  

Mrbogey: optikeye: But the libertarian's say the free market will take care of this kind of thing because people won't buy Freedom Industries product now.

In the libertarian world the aggrieved would demand recompense for the damage done to them. If they can turn a profit while still paying people they keep hurting then they'll stay around. However, it's never a good business model to throw money away just because you're careless. Unless a company gets some kind of subsidy because they're too big to fail, they'll either have to stop leaking chemicals or go out of business.


Nice job. Surely everyone else will think you are an idiot.
 
2014-01-12 11:00:42 PM  

Cpl.D: Is it going to take people being killed before the righties see a valid reason for some industry regulation?


Pffff, they're just dirt-faced hillbillies. Why would a righty give a crap about them?
 
2014-01-12 11:17:23 PM  

Mrtraveler01: theorellior: But the dumbfarks have decided that the best way to deal with flammable water coming out of kitchen faucets is to circle the wagons and clam up.

And put up these billboards (which btw is promoting a "documentary" that was heavily promoted by the fracking industry:

[images.politico.com image 605x328]

Mrbogey: You know for regulations that help corporations screw the little guy you need to first have a gov't strong enough to enforce unfair laws.

Whereas without those regulations, the corporations screw the little guy much faster.


Oh, I can do you one better than that billboard.

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/1/8/radio-disney-s-partner s hipwithgasindustryinohiohassomereeling.html
Radio Disney's pro-fracking elementary school tour sparks outrage
 
2014-01-12 11:19:09 PM  
Really, Fark.  Can't figure out a Al Jazeera URL?  Because it worked just fine in my damn browser.

Gawker recap of it, with snarky commentary added:
http://gawker.com/radio-disney-is-promoting-fracking-at-dozens-of-el em ent-1498113339
 
2014-01-12 11:23:16 PM  
Freedom?
Mr. Peabody's coal train done hauled it away.
 
2014-01-12 11:28:28 PM  

2wolves: WTF Indeed: It's West Virginia, no one should feel bad for West Virginia.

It's a trout river.  Doesn't matter where it is.


About 100 miles north east of Charleston the Elk is full of trout. In Charleston not so much.

Still not cool to damage the river I learned how to swim in.

Bastards.
 
2014-01-12 11:31:11 PM  

Mrtraveler01: theorellior: But the dumbfarks have decided that the best way to deal with flammable water coming out of kitchen faucets is to circle the wagons and clam up.

And put up these billboards (which btw is promoting a "documentary" that was heavily promoted by the fracking industry:

[images.politico.com image 605x328]

Mrbogey: You know for regulations that help corporations screw the little guy you need to first have a gov't strong enough to enforce unfair laws.

Whereas without those regulations, the corporations screw the little guy much faster.


The irony is that Matt Damon made a movie financed in part by anti-fracking oil sheiks while Fracknation received no funding from fracking corps. Perhaps you ought to actually digest what the billboard says. Methane intrusion into water supplies is an age old problem. Fracking didn't invent it.

As to regulations, you realize you can sue someone even without regulations?
 
2014-01-12 11:34:00 PM  

FlyingJ: organizmx /another red state racing to the bottom

So with all the blue states down there now it'll be purple?
http://greatlakesecho.org/2010/06/04/poisoning-michigan-an-author-re vi sits-the-most-widespread-contamination-30-years-later/

http://chronicle.northcoastnow.com/2012/04/24/lake-erie-ranks-in-nat io n's-top-50-for-carcinogens-dumped-into-water/


Jesus.  I was born after the PBB contamination.  It was most decidedly not mentioned in my environmentalism in Michigan class, although aside from that I thought I was familiar with at least all of the larger pollution nightmares here.  And my boyfriend went to school in Alma, we've spent time in St. Louis.

Holy crap.

Thank you for the link.  I'm buying the book and will probably read it while drinking heavily.
 
2014-01-12 11:35:45 PM  

FlyingJ: organizmx /another red state racing to the bottom

So with all the blue states down there now it'll be purple?
http://greatlakesecho.org/2010/06/04/poisoning-michigan-an-author-re vi sits-the-most-widespread-contamination-30-years-later/

http://chronicle.northcoastnow.com/2012/04/24/lake-erie-ranks-in-nat io n's-top-50-for-carcinogens-dumped-into-water/


... for f--ks sake, I read the damn Echo all the time.  Weird how certain things just slip by you, knowledge wise.
 
2014-01-12 11:36:39 PM  
Fracking is so safe that these companies hired Hill and Knowlton, the same PR firm that cigarette companies hired back in the '50s to help promote their safety. Hiring former Army psyops specialists to influence and manipulate local communities is a testament to the safety of fracking. And of course, the four states confirming that drilling has contaminated water also means fracking is completely safe. Nothing to worry about. Now please sign this NDA. Also, your two children need to sign it as well. Thanks.
 
2014-01-12 11:39:22 PM  

WTF Indeed: It's West Virginia, no one should feel bad for West Virginia.



Stick your ignorance about West Virginia in your ass shiat for brains.

And then go fark yourself.
 
2014-01-13 12:03:53 AM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Fracking is so safe that these companies hired Hill and Knowlton, the same PR firm that cigarette companies hired back in the '50s to help promote their safety. Hiring former Army psyops specialists to influence and manipulate local communities is a testament to the safety of fracking.


Well that and the fact they fought for, and received, an exemption from the SDWA, When fracking is a textbook activity for what the SDWA was passed to oversee.
 
2014-01-13 12:09:03 AM  

Mrbogey: The irony is that Matt Damon made a movie financed in part by anti-fracking oil sheiks while Fracknation received no funding from fracking corps.


No, just money from people in the fracking industry.

The film, however, is being partially funded through donations on the Kickstarter website, and the roster of "executive producers" who have donated at least $1 includes scores of energy industry associates.

http://www.post-gazette.com/business/businessnews/2012/03/04/Industr y- gets-cast-in-FrackNation-the-latest-documentary-on-the-drilling-debate /stories/2012030402520000000#ixzz2qFgilKdx

Mrbogey: As to regulations, you realize you can sue someone even without regulations?


So instead of creating regulations to prevent the little man from getting screwed over, we wait for the little man to get screw over and hope that he wins his lawsuit when he does get screwed over?
 
2014-01-13 12:09:48 AM  
Let them drink Mountain Dew?
 
2014-01-13 12:14:36 AM  

Mrtraveler01: Mrbogey: The irony is that Matt Damon made a movie financed in part by anti-fracking oil sheiks while Fracknation received no funding from fracking corps.

No, just money from people in the fracking industry.

The film, however, is being partially funded through donations on the Kickstarter website, and the roster of "executive producers" who have donated at least $1 includes scores of energy industry associates.

http://www.post-gazette.com/business/businessnews/2012/03/04/Industr y- gets-cast-in-FrackNation-the-latest-documentary-on-the-drilling-debate /stories/2012030402520000000#ixzz2qFgilKdx


Even more in the article:

The filmmakers want to avoid their work being labeled as pro-industry propaganda, but support for the project has been strongest among those who want to see just that.
The team's Kickstarter campaign -- meant to ensure that the film is financed by "the 99 percent" and not the wealthy few, Mr. McAleer said -- has been promoted by pro-industry lobbying groups Energy in Depth and the Marcellus Shale Coalition. The average donation is around $60, Mr. McAleer said.
The roster of "executive producers" helping to finance the film includes the director of an Ohio-based oil and gas outreach program and the head of external affairs at Cabot Oil and Gas, the company that's fought accusations of water contamination in Dimock, Pa., for the past several years.



They tried to be real sneaky about it with the Kickstarter campaign but that film is really just propaganda from the fracking industry just like they claim that Matt Damon's movie is propaganda from environmentalists.

Otherwise they wouldn't have members of the fracking industry be "executive producers".
 
2014-01-13 01:14:36 AM  
Oooh the outrage.....lol....seriosuly now maybe some americans will begin ...just begin to understand how a few "indians" in Bohpal felt.
 
2014-01-13 03:14:26 AM  

Hollie Maea: cretinbob: fusillade762: Is he drinking the Obama water?

[ballotvox.prx.org image 500x333]

If they actually sent that to these people, that would be the greatest troll ever.


There are people complaining that they won't drink Obama water that's been shipped in already. I'm sure it's not labeled like that and comes from stocks that are kept all over in case of emergency, but yeah....that'd be awesome.
 
2014-01-13 03:34:51 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Hollie Maea: Satanic_Hamster: For the life of me, I don't understand why the industry is willing to farkover their long term prospects by covering for the short term profits of a few jagoffs.

That's what industry does, when left to its own devices.

See also: Palmerton, PA.


see Wall st
 
2014-01-13 04:58:51 AM  

jmr61: WTF Indeed: It's West Virginia, no one should feel bad for West Virginia.


Stick your ignorance about West Virginia in your ass shiat for brains.

And then go fark yourself.


memecrunch.com
 
2014-01-13 06:02:25 AM  

Mrtraveler01: So instead of creating regulations to prevent the little man from getting screwed over, we wait for the little man to get screw over and hope that he wins his lawsuit when he does get screwed over?


Yes. Especially since every regulation created just screws the little man over in different ways.

Regulate everything? You're driving industry and jobs away, you monster.

Use reasonable regulation? Whatever you don't regulate will be used to prove you don't care, by someone younger and prettier than you, and so you are no better than the corporations.

You can cry as much as you want over the fact that somebody needs to be screwed over before the corporations can be accused of screwing anyone over, but it's better than things will be when "social justice" replaces actual justice. Especially after you get old enough to develop ugly wrinkles, and thus become a thought-criminal in the eyes of your fellow Millenials.

/why do the regulations allow ANY arsenic to be in the drinking water, instead of just "less arsenic than present in the air you breathe?"
//not perfect, therefore not fair, therefore I'LL SUE!
 
2014-01-13 06:37:17 AM  

broken jebus: First, make him drink the ground water.

Then, have him eat one of the fish from the river:

[ts3.mm.bing.net image 250x172]


Unfortunately, the fish in the Kanawha weren't safe to eat before this happened.
 
2014-01-13 06:52:32 AM  

Tatterdemalian: Mrtraveler01: So instead of creating regulations to prevent the little man from getting screwed over, we wait for the little man to get screw over and hope that he wins his lawsuit when he does get screwed over?

Yes. Especially since every regulation created just screws the little man over in different ways.

Regulate everything? You're driving industry and jobs away, you monster.

Use reasonable regulation? Whatever you don't regulate will be used to prove you don't care, by someone younger and prettier than you, and so you are no better than the corporations.

You can cry as much as you want over the fact that somebody needs to be screwed over before the corporations can be accused of screwing anyone over, but it's better than things will be when "social justice" replaces actual justice. Especially after you get old enough to develop ugly wrinkles, and thus become a thought-criminal in the eyes of your fellow Millenials.

/why do the regulations allow ANY arsenic to be in the drinking water, instead of just "less arsenic than present in the air you breathe?"
//not perfect, therefore not fair, therefore I'LL SUE!



Exactly. There's a reason there's no law against TRYING to murder someone. No harm, no foul.

So, obviously we can't "use reasonable regulation." That would be completely unreasonable.

After all, some young pretty person might say stupid things about reasonable regulation, and that would clearly be much worse than whatever supposed harm might result from a lack of reasonable regulation on companies which might occasionally release large amounts of toxic chemicals into the water supply.
 
2014-01-13 07:35:10 AM  

Cpl.D: Is it going to take people being killed before the righties see a valid reason for some industry regulation?


You're kidding, right?  Dead workers don't dent your true wingnut's worldview, they reinforce it.

I take it you missed that Fox talking head right after that big Bangladeshi factory fire?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/27/charles-payne-bangladesh-fi re _n_2199557.html
 
2014-01-13 07:59:21 AM  
Man, I grew up in West Virginia and the butthurt on my Facebook wall over all this is magnificent.  Look, there's plenty of infrastructure shipping in bottled water for you to drink, and West Virginia is full of filterable water sources that aren't connected to the Elk River.  You can't take a shower and your favorite restaurant is closed.  BFD.

/ It does suck for the businesses that depend on clean tap water, but regular people seem to be getting their pitchforks out over something that amounts to little more than an inconvenience.
 
2014-01-13 08:57:23 AM  

serial_crusher: Man, I grew up in West Virginia and the butthurt on my Facebook wall over all this is magnificent.  Look, there's plenty of infrastructure shipping in bottled water for you to drink, and West Virginia is full of filterable water sources that aren't connected to the Elk River.  You can't take a shower and your favorite restaurant is closed.  BFD.

/ It does suck for the businesses that depend on clean tap water, but regular people seem to be getting their pitchforks out over something that amounts to little more than an inconvenience.


www.mindhuestudio.com
 
2014-01-13 10:00:17 AM  

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: Tatterdemalian: Mrtraveler01: So instead of creating regulations to prevent the little man from getting screwed over, we wait for the little man to get screw over and hope that he wins his lawsuit when he does get screwed over?

Yes. Especially since every regulation created just screws the little man over in different ways.

Regulate everything? You're driving industry and jobs away, you monster.

Use reasonable regulation? Whatever you don't regulate will be used to prove you don't care, by someone younger and prettier than you, and so you are no better than the corporations.

You can cry as much as you want over the fact that somebody needs to be screwed over before the corporations can be accused of screwing anyone over, but it's better than things will be when "social justice" replaces actual justice. Especially after you get old enough to develop ugly wrinkles, and thus become a thought-criminal in the eyes of your fellow Millenials.

/why do the regulations allow ANY arsenic to be in the drinking water, instead of just "less arsenic than present in the air you breathe?"
//not perfect, therefore not fair, therefore I'LL SUE!


Exactly. There's a reason there's no law against TRYING to murder someone. No harm, no foul.

So, obviously we can't "use reasonable regulation." That would be completely unreasonable.

After all, some young pretty person might say stupid things about reasonable regulation, and that would clearly be much worse than whatever supposed harm might result from a lack of reasonable regulation on companies which might occasionally release large amounts of toxic chemicals into the water supply.


I simply love the implication that all current regulation is unreasonable and what will save us is reasonable regulation.

/we should sue reason
 
2014-01-13 01:08:42 PM  

Mrbogey: yakmans_dad: /Libertarians never factor in the power of bribing public officials.

The anti-Libertarian believes that politicians can be bribed by corporations BUT if we give those same politicians tons of powers they'll magically become immune to bribery.


A completely imaginary position.
 
2014-01-13 04:50:57 PM  

StreetlightInTheGhetto: And my boyfriend went to school in Alma


What years for highschool? I may know 'em. Also, I grew up knowing up the St. Louis superfund site and the pbb contamination, maybe because of the close proximity.
 
2014-01-13 11:02:04 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Mrtraveler01: Mrbogey: The irony is that Matt Damon made a movie financed in part by anti-fracking oil sheiks while Fracknation received no funding from fracking corps.

No, just money from people in the fracking industry.

The film, however, is being partially funded through donations on the Kickstarter website, and the roster of "executive producers" who have donated at least $1 includes scores of energy industry associates.

http://www.post-gazette.com/business/businessnews/2012/03/04/Industr y- gets-cast-in-FrackNation-the-latest-documentary-on-the-drilling-debate /stories/2012030402520000000#ixzz2qFgilKdx

Even more in the article:

The filmmakers want to avoid their work being labeled as pro-industry propaganda, but support for the project has been strongest among those who want to see just that.
The team's Kickstarter campaign -- meant to ensure that the film is financed by "the 99 percent" and not the wealthy few, Mr. McAleer said -- has been promoted by pro-industry lobbying groups Energy in Depth and the Marcellus Shale Coalition. The average donation is around $60, Mr. McAleer said.
The roster of "executive producers" helping to finance the film includes the director of an Ohio-based oil and gas outreach program and the head of external affairs at Cabot Oil and Gas, the company that's fought accusations of water contamination in Dimock, Pa., for the past several years.


They tried to be real sneaky about it with the Kickstarter campaign but that film is really just propaganda from the fracking industry just like they claim that Matt Damon's movie is propaganda from environmentalists.

Otherwise they wouldn't have members of the fracking industry be "executive producers".


Allow me to tear apart your nonsense. Firstly, anyone who donated got credit on it so it's not as if they're bankrolling it by getting a producer credit. You're talking literally scores upon scores of people Second of all, they returned money from executives at fracking corps. Third, there's nothing wrong with taking money from learned folks in an industry. Only a retard would say that people who are experts in a field should stay out of an argument about that field.

The biggest bit of your nonsense is that there's some subtle propaganda. The interesting thing here is Fracknation was entirely accurate and well documented in its claims. Gasland however turned out to be a sack of lies as exposed by Fracknation. It's precisely why the nonsense about it being funded by fracking companies is the only real thing thrown out against it. Liars like Fox won't even address his debunked claims and instead keeps repeating them to audiences of rubes who enjoy being lied to.

Matt Damon's movie is a dishonest lying turd bankrolled by oil sheiks who know that anti-fracking activists are certifiable morons. Yes, they banked on anti-frackers being as dumb as dogshiat and they won that bet. They bet that if they made up whole cloth a bunch of lies about water wells being pristine before fracking but undrinkable after, that dumb as dirt folks would believe it without actually looking at any evidence.

Science isn't really the forte of a great many humans. If only the anti-frackers had even the lowest level of common sense that would cause them to at least shut their damn mouths about something they don't know anything about instead of going forth proudly in ignorance.
 
2014-01-13 11:40:54 PM  
I realize it was an accident, and I don't blame "big coal". That being said, the tank that leaked was over fifty years old and no inspections were required, Freedom didn't report the spill until DEP was already calling them about it, And as soon as the story broke, Coal companies went into high gear minimizing their relationship to the story and poo-pooing anyone who said it was a big deal. There's a lot that's crappy about the whole situation.

/ especially the fact that I still can't shower
// and my house smells like licorice
 
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