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(WFTV Orlando)   Sheriff's office posts pictures of broken down police cruisers and other equipment so taxpayers know their money isn't going to necessary improvements   (wftv.com) divider line 84
    More: Florida, patrol cars, street fighting, Pogues, equipment, open positions, sheriffs, taxpayers  
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8669 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Jan 2014 at 3:24 PM (31 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



84 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-01-12 03:26:56 PM
Meh, boobies and all that.
 
2014-01-12 03:28:23 PM
And here I am playing the world's smallest violin. Here's what you do, Deputy McPig: take better care of your equipment.
 
2014-01-12 03:31:03 PM
So where is the money going to?
 
2014-01-12 03:31:18 PM
This is a stretch, but it's even possible to hire a maintenance team. I know, that's crazy.
 
2014-01-12 03:31:20 PM
FTA: after the radiator hose blew while the deputy was driving, covering his window with fluid so he couldn't see.

If only there was some magical thing to clear fluid off of a windshield.

/badluckbrian.jpeg: Windshield wipers also broken.
 
2014-01-12 03:33:13 PM

Bslim: And here I am playing the world's smallest violin. Here's what you do, Deputy McPig: take better care of your equipment.


Uhh, no.   A Pig with a busted-ass pigwagon is going to be more angry than average and thus more likely to convert a ticketing into an ass-whupping.

There's also the fact that they're not being held to the same standard as the rest of the county's fleet

I don't give a shiat about the popo,   I do, however, give a shiat when angry pigs being angry affect the non-pigs in the vicinity
 
2014-01-12 03:34:04 PM
Cars that are driven 12 hours a day are actually better off than cars with equivalent mileage that are driven for 15 minutes at a time.

//Thanks for submitting the opposite to the public as fact though...
 
2014-01-12 03:35:23 PM
 
2014-01-12 03:36:45 PM

Warriors Warriors Warriors: This is a stretch, but it's even possible to hire a maintenance team. I know, that's crazy.


Cheaper to outsource.  Cheapest to outsource it to the service department at Wal-Mart.  You get what you pay for.
 
2014-01-12 03:37:52 PM
If the cars are that unreliable after 200K miles, that suggests maintenance issues?
 
2014-01-12 03:39:44 PM
Just 2 more chances to get out of a ticket when cop car breaks down during:  1. initial chase.  2. on way to court to fight said ticket.
 
2014-01-12 03:39:54 PM

sheep snorter: FTA: after the radiator hose blew while the deputy was driving, covering his window with fluid so he couldn't see.

If only there was some magical thing to clear fluid off of a windshield.

/badluckbrian.jpeg: Windshield wipers also broken.


Good thing he didn't blow a seal, but perhaps we should leave their personal lives out of this.
 
2014-01-12 03:40:10 PM
Your doing it wrong.

If you are trying to garni$h up public support for revenue generation I suggest a 3 point plan;

1) Go Fox News on the public and put out a bunch of martyred talking points about how you will not be able to effectively police the minority peoples (brown, blacks, etc) and that a$$ rape and epis$odes of The Knockout Game will be epidemic upon them at any moment...for max effect piggyback your PSA on radio and TV immediately after a AARP commercial or after a Goldline commercial on local talk radio station.

2) Go old school with speed traps and arbitrary ticketing of anyone with an out of state plate for speeding, etc. And when in doubt...just start making shiat up.

3) Put more pressure on drug raids and arrest and prosecution with monetary fines primarily as form of punishment for simple posession and such of drugs. Focus on weed in particular as it will satisfy some of the requiem and synergize with #1 and keep any uppity marijuana crazed blacks minding their own business as they walk home from the store with Skittles and iced tea from instigating a conflict with upstanding citizens who are simply Standing their Ground...

That usually works.

Your welcome!

And who says lib democrats like me DON'T ever have solutions to problems?
 
2014-01-12 03:41:16 PM

AndreMA: If the cars are that unreliable after 200K miles, that suggests maintenance issues?


200k miles on a law enforcement ride can mean a shiat load more engine hours than 200k on yours. Think of how much time is spent parked with the engine running.
 
2014-01-12 03:41:25 PM
 
2014-01-12 03:41:58 PM

AndreMA: If the cars are that unreliable after 200K miles, that suggests maintenance issues?


No, the cars are more or less running all day for the duration of the officer's shift.  A police car that has 100k miles on it doesn't reflect all the hours it's idling and when it is being driven it's typically hard acceleration, hard braking, etc.  It's not like they're getting to the 100k mile mark driving 12 miles a day to and from the office...
 
2014-01-12 03:43:13 PM

Smackledorfer: AndreMA: If the cars are that unreliable after 200K miles, that suggests maintenance issues?

200k miles on a law enforcement ride can mean a shiat load more engine hours than 200k on yours. Think of how much time is spent parked with the engine running.


And beaten to the punch.  That's what I get for fiddling around for 42 seconds.
 
2014-01-12 03:43:21 PM
So their stuff is old 'n busted and they want some new hotness.
 
2014-01-12 03:43:30 PM

Bslim: And here I am playing the world's smallest violin. Here's what you do, Deputy McPig: take better care of your equipment.


You're trying too hard.
 
2014-01-12 03:43:51 PM
But I'm sure their armored personnel carriers and terrorist-getting equipment are in tip-top shape!
 
2014-01-12 03:44:53 PM

Rapmaster2000: Warriors Warriors Warriors: This is a stretch, but it's even possible to hire a maintenance team. I know, that's crazy.

Cheaper to outsource.  Cheapest to outsource it to the service department at Wal-Mart.  You get what you pay for.


Public employees are Soshulism. Duh.
 
2014-01-12 03:44:58 PM

italie: Cars that are driven 12 hours a day are actually better off than cars with equivalent mileage that are driven for 15 minutes at a time.

//Thanks for submitting the opposite to the public as fact though...


Police cars are not driven nearly as gingerly as your average mom's minivan.
 
2014-01-12 03:45:22 PM

Smackledorfer: AndreMA: If the cars are that unreliable after 200K miles, that suggests maintenance issues?

200k miles on a law enforcement ride can mean a shiat load more engine hours than 200k on yours. Think of how much time is spent parked with the engine running.


At temp operation is like 75% less wear on a motor than operation it during warm-up. They may have shait tons more hours, but those hours are FAR easier on the motor.
 
2014-01-12 03:45:47 PM
Will WFTV get first shot at the nightly arrests since they are part of the PR campaign for the Marion County's Sheriff's department?
 
2014-01-12 03:46:13 PM

GrailOfThunder: italie: Cars that are driven 12 hours a day are actually better off than cars with equivalent mileage that are driven for 15 minutes at a time.

//Thanks for submitting the opposite to the public as fact though...

Police cars are not driven nearly as gingerly as your average mom's minivan.


You've obviously never driven with my mom.
 
2014-01-12 03:51:30 PM

Apos: So where is the money going to?


General fund? I dunno.
 
2014-01-12 03:53:30 PM

italie: Smackledorfer: AndreMA: If the cars are that unreliable after 200K miles, that suggests maintenance issues?

200k miles on a law enforcement ride can mean a shiat load more engine hours than 200k on yours. Think of how much time is spent parked with the engine running.

At temp operation is like 75% less wear on a motor than operation it during warm-up. They may have shait tons more hours, but those hours are FAR easier on the motor.


I'd submit that they shouldn't sit there idling, generating needless pollution, causing undue wear, and wasting gasoline. Shut it down. If it's cold, go inside the donut shop rather than use the drive thru. The portable radio exists for a reason.
 
2014-01-12 03:54:10 PM

AndreMA: sheep snorter: FTA: after the radiator hose blew while the deputy was driving, covering his window with fluid so he couldn't see.

If only there was some magical thing to clear fluid off of a windshield.

/badluckbrian.jpeg: Windshield wipers also broken.

Good thing he didn't blow a seal, but perhaps we should leave their personal lives out of this.


upload.wikimedia.org

I told you already: It's just ice cream!

 
2014-01-12 03:55:05 PM
take a look at these links, Marion County may have some boss hog shiat going on. The comments are some of the most interesting parts.

http://www.ocala.com/article/20131112/ARTICLES/131119955#gsc.tab=0

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/ocala-fl/TU12R4740PF8202HI/p2

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/tavares-fl/T9KTU4SPV65DOCAND/p3
 
2014-01-12 03:56:58 PM

pastorkius: A police car that has 100k miles on it doesn't reflect all the hours it's idling and when it is being driven it's typically hard acceleration, hard braking, etc.


Yeah, those daily high-speed chases through the aqueduct are brutal on the police cars.  The flying-hubcap replacement costs alone...
 
2014-01-12 04:00:03 PM
>poot_rootbeer
pastorkius: A police car that has 100k miles on it doesn't reflect all the hours it's idling and when it is being driven it's typically hard acceleration, hard braking, etc.
Yeah, those daily high-speed chases through the aqueduct are brutal on the police cars. The flying-hubcap replacement costs alone...

Don't forget about the part where the cop car goes over that hill really quick and catches a little air. It is hell on the struts.
 
2014-01-12 04:06:10 PM
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-01-12 04:06:59 PM
It's got a cop motor, a four hundred and forty cubic inch plant, it's got cop tires, cop suspension, cop shocks, it was a model made before catalytic converters so it'll run good on regular gas.
 
2014-01-12 04:08:49 PM

Bslim: And here I am playing the world's smallest violin. Here's what you do, Deputy McPig: take better care of your equipment.


Fark you.  I work for Highways and our snow plows break down all the time, and we have a shop mechanic.  Learn to realize normal wear and tear does not apply to public service vehicles.

You sir, are an idiot.
 
2014-01-12 04:12:49 PM
Around here they retire the police cars at ~80,000 miles.

They don't sell them off. The old cars are turned into scarecrows. They are parked at high risk locations such as convenience stores or large parking lots to deter robbery and theft. Someone goes around every so often and takes them to be washed or serviced and they are parked in a different location.
 
2014-01-12 04:14:00 PM
 Pier 1 Imports!
 
2014-01-12 04:18:21 PM
This appears to be a pissing match between two different government agencies, it said this in the report.  They are trying to punish the sherif's department for farking up too much.  So the sheriff's dept is taking it to the press.

Per talking points from the topix conversations.  Not that I trust them 100%, but I give them just as much faith as a local news department that does PR for the sheriff's department instead covering the actual story.

The candidate for Sheriff of Marion County had to drop out of the race and resign his job as second
In command because it was disclosed he had been involved in an extramarital affair.
Now his replacement is under investigation for elections law violations and put on hold for
assuming the position he was elected too.

marion county has some of the worst conditions for inmates. The jail itself is a money maker, the judges leave misdemeanors in for 1year on a VOP consistently, to gain more fine money and to utilize their labors in the "farm". I met people who were stuck in there for checks that didn't clear and driving on a suspended liscence that judge Futch sentenced to 90 days, they had never been in trouble in their lives. Then your put on a dog food diet, that call "no-frills", even if you get commissary, there is no sugar, no caffine, you will lose 50 pounds in 3 weeks, I did. If you get sick, I broke out in hives, they make you stand in a line to get a "request form for the nurse. You can't turn it in right then you must wait till the next time the nurse comes, then it's 2 days before they call you out, to possibly give you calamine lotion. I spent 4 days scratching in hives. The guards call every woman in there "crack whore", their "power trip" is disgusting, then can cut you phones of and lock you down for someone whispering in the dinner line. I had heard Marion County rated in the top 3 worst American jails, and I truly believe it.
 
2014-01-12 04:19:19 PM
Did they post the names of officers driving to their homes and second jobs, in other counties, in patrol cars at tax payers expense?

Journalism, how does it work?
 
2014-01-12 04:21:23 PM

DoctorCal: Also relevant:

http://www.wthr.com/story/18730102/family-of-impd-crash-victim-reach es -settlement-agreement


This story is from Florida. That's Indianapolis you're looking at.
 
2014-01-12 04:34:21 PM

Edgewood Dirk: Bslim: And here I am playing the world's smallest violin. Here's what you do, Deputy McPig: take better care of your equipment.

Fark you.  I work for Highways and our snow plows break down all the time, and we have a shop mechanic.  Learn to realize normal wear and tear does not apply to public service vehicles.

You sir, are an idiot.


Before you call someone an idiot, you should ask yourself what someone who doesn't distinguish between the DPW and the police is.
 
2014-01-12 04:35:49 PM

AndreMA: Edgewood Dirk: Bslim: And here I am playing the world's smallest violin. Here's what you do, Deputy McPig: take better care of your equipment.

Fark you.  I work for Highways and our snow plows break down all the time, and we have a shop mechanic.  Learn to realize normal wear and tear does not apply to public service vehicles.

You sir, are an idiot.

Before you call someone an idiot, you should ask yourself what someone who doesn't distinguish between the DPW and the police is.


That might have been unduly harsh. Here the DPW and highway folks are completely separate from the police in terms of vehicle maintenance and the like.

Apologies if warranted.
 
2014-01-12 04:36:26 PM

Edgewood Dirk: Bslim: And here I am playing the world's smallest violin. Here's what you do, Deputy McPig: take better care of your equipment.

Fark you.  I work for Highways and our snow plows break down all the time, and we have a shop mechanic.  Learn to realize normal wear and tear does not apply to public service vehicles.

You sir, are an idiot.


Are you saying that they are using their patrol cars to plow the roads? That's an improper use of equipment which makes their negligence even worse.
 
2014-01-12 04:37:34 PM
There is only one thing we can be sure - everyone involved in incompetent.

In the private sector, there would be firings all around.
 
2014-01-12 04:41:28 PM

Rreal: Bslim: And here I am playing the world's smallest violin. Here's what you do, Deputy McPig: take better care of your equipment.

Uhh, no.   A Pig with a busted-ass pigwagon is going to be more angry than average and thus more likely to convert a ticketing into an ass-whupping.

There's also the fact that they're not being held to the same standard as the rest of the county's fleet

I don't give a shiat about the popo,   I do, however, give a shiat when angry pigs being angry affect the non-pigs in the vicinity


Pigs? What year is it, 1968?
 
2014-01-12 04:45:52 PM

Edgewood Dirk: Bslim: And here I am playing the world's smallest violin. Here's what you do, Deputy McPig: take better care of your equipment.

Fark you.  I work for Highways and our snow plows break down all the time, and we have a shop mechanic.  Learn to realize normal wear and tear does not apply to public service vehicles.

You sir, are an idiot.


Forget it, he's on some nostalgic hippie-drippy rant about police officers. Just nod your head and slowly back away.
 
2014-01-12 04:51:36 PM

Apos: So where is the money going to?


That actually is not a bad question.  Marion County Sheriff's budget this year is about $67 million for a population of about 335K.  This includes the budget for the county jail, as far as I can tell.

This is pretty low, even by Florida standards.
 
2014-01-12 04:51:37 PM
need more Renee Stoll
 
2014-01-12 04:52:09 PM

italie: Smackledorfer: AndreMA: If the cars are that unreliable after 200K miles, that suggests maintenance issues?

200k miles on a law enforcement ride can mean a shiat load more engine hours than 200k on yours. Think of how much time is spent parked with the engine running.

At temp operation is like 75% less wear on a motor than operation it during warm-up. They may have shait tons more hours, but those hours are FAR easier on the motor.


I don't think you draw tge right comparison with that 75% number.

I mean *I* have a car killing two minute commute, but I think that is a rare thing.
 
2014-01-12 04:52:41 PM

buckler: But I'm sure their armored personnel carriers and terrorist-getting equipment are in tip-top shape!



Bearsrepeating.jpg
 
2014-01-12 05:05:21 PM
Ocala is Tea Party central. I'm sure what's happened is the good citizens have voted themselves Swedish level of government services with the Somali tax base.  Something's got to give.
 
2014-01-12 05:09:41 PM

poot_rootbeer: pastorkius: A police car that has 100k miles on it doesn't reflect all the hours it's idling and when it is being driven it's typically hard acceleration, hard braking, etc.

Yeah, those daily high-speed chases through the aqueduct are brutal on the police cars.  The flying-hubcap replacement costs alone...


You do realize that they respond to calls over the course of a shift, right?  Not that it's usually warranted, but the response is usually to get there as fast as possible.

Of course I realize it's FARK, where all police are big meanies who don't do anything unless it's evil.
 
2014-01-12 05:17:05 PM

Smackledorfer: italie: Smackledorfer: AndreMA: If the cars are that unreliable after 200K miles, that suggests maintenance issues?

200k miles on a law enforcement ride can mean a shiat load more engine hours than 200k on yours. Think of how much time is spent parked with the engine running.

At temp operation is like 75% less wear on a motor than operation it during warm-up. They may have shait tons more hours, but those hours are FAR easier on the motor.

I don't think you draw tge right comparison with that 75% number.

I mean *I* have a car killing two minute commute, but I think that is a rare thing.


Warm up is considered ~15 minutes. This is not only the time it takes to get the engine/coolant to temp, but the oil as well.

5 days a week commute at 10 miles each way. 10 warm up periods and 100 miles each week.

1 cop car run for 8 hours straight putting on 100 miles in his shift. One warm up peroid.

You now have two cars with the same mileage, but completely different wear and tear. There are ancillaries to the equation, but it isn't hard to get the point from here.
 
2014-01-12 05:18:19 PM

InternetSecurityGuard: Around here they retire the police cars at ~80,000 miles.

They don't sell them off. The old cars are turned into scarecrows. They are parked at high risk locations such as convenience stores or large parking lots to deter robbery and theft. Someone goes around every so often and takes them to be washed or serviced and they are parked in a different location.


Idk the millage, but they are sold here.  What I have seen listed online, the millage is around that like what this guy is whining about.  Anyway, there are many being driven by civilians around Flint, and they look about as ratty as the Blues Bros car.  For extra funny, one was given to the blight enforcement officer.  I haven't had the guy stop near me, but I imagine it would be comical to be told to get rid of a junker by someone driving a junker.  If I was looking for a sedan and found an old patrol car in decent enough looking shape, I'd consider it.  They gotta go for only a couple grand at most.

I have a Ranger with 246k miles, most put on by my dad who drives like the worst cop.  It needs a wheel bearing.  My Expedition has 160k miles, it needs brakes and an O2 sensor.  It worked hard during the 17" of snow we had.  The city cops may idle a lot, but they don't drive hard.  You can drive the speed limit and be driving harder than the city cops.  State Troopers do though, and they do have the budget to replace the cars a little more often.
 
2014-01-12 05:18:27 PM
FTA-The sheriff was able to buy 35 cars by not filling several open positions.

What are they paying these guys?
 
2014-01-12 05:18:40 PM
pastorkius
You do realize that they respond to calls over the course of a shift, right? Not that it's usually warranted, but the response is usually to get there as fast as possible.
Of course I realize it's FARK, where all police are big meanies who don't do anything unless it's evil.


This is a intergovernmental pissing match between county commissioners and the sheriff's dept, whom may be farking things up and are looking to torpedo them into failing. The local news piece is a PR piece probably in exchange for first reveal on that night's DUI arrests.
 
2014-01-12 05:24:01 PM

Squidbait: FTA-The sheriff was able to buy 35 cars by not filling several open positions.

What are they paying these guys?


Numbers still don't make sense to me about the 35 new cars.  If they didn't fill several positions, aren't they still paying out more money on overtime?  I would think the only money being saved is the benefits packages of the unfilled positions, but still paying more for hours to be covered by existing officers.

/also, I hope their citizens feel insulted by the pic of the car with a shredded tire propped over the car's real tire.
//They could've at least photo shopped it on the car.
 
2014-01-12 05:30:01 PM
Just love seeing my home town represented on Fark.com

Now, they get rid of some of the deputies and they would save a little cash.  Can't sit on the front porch at out place up there without seeing a MCSO car drive by.. and our place is on Ft. King... hardly the questionable side of town.
I see far less down here in S. Florida than we see up there.  MCSO is more of a hire my buddy employment scam.

/Go Colts!
 
2014-01-12 05:42:50 PM
I think it is cute when the pigs think that a police state is built for the sake of the police.
 
2014-01-12 05:58:57 PM

Squidbait: FTA-The sheriff was able to buy 35 cars by not filling several open positions.

What are they paying these guys?


You don't understand math.  Let me explain it to you.  Suppose a guy just quit who made $35,000 a year, right?   Now, if you decide not to fill his position for one year, that means you have $35,000 to spend.

And, suppose that your standard payment on a police car is $500 down and $500 a month.  That means you can walk into a dealership and drive out with a new police car for $1,000.

Therefore, if someone who makes $35K quits, you can buy 35 police cars.

Why is this so hard to understand?
 
2014-01-12 06:09:46 PM

The Larch: Squidbait: FTA-The sheriff was able to buy 35 cars by not filling several open positions.

What are they paying these guys?

You don't understand math.  Let me explain it to you.  Suppose a guy just quit who made $35,000 a year, right?   Now, if you decide not to fill his position for one year, that means you have $35,000 to spend.

And, suppose that your standard payment on a police car is $500 down and $500 a month.  That means you can walk into a dealership and drive out with a new police car for $1,000.

Therefore, if someone who makes $35K quits, you can buy 35 police cars.

Why is this so hard to understand?


Because that's not buying 35 police cars. That's making a down payment and one month of payments for 35 police cars. So, you'd need $227,500 for the first year, and $210,000 per year for the remainder of the note. You'd need to eliminate 6.5 officers for those 35 cars, and hire only .5 officers to replace them until the notes are paid off (because you only have to make the down payments once). $500/month sounds like a 5-year note, minimum, so you're down 6.5 officers the first year and 6 officers for the next 4 years.
 
2014-01-12 06:31:30 PM

sporkme: DoctorCal: Also relevant:

http://www.wthr.com/story/18730102/family-of-impd-crash-victim-reach es -settlement-agreement

This story is from Florida. That's Indianapolis you're looking at.


Hah! I saw "Marion County", and not "Fla."

Thanks for not being abusive about my blunder. :-)
 
2014-01-12 06:38:32 PM

The Larch: Squidbait: FTA-The sheriff was able to buy 35 cars by not filling several open positions.

What are they paying these guys?

You don't understand math.  Let me explain it to you.  Suppose a guy just quit who made $35,000 a year, right?   Now, if you decide not to fill his position for one year, that means you have $35,000 to spend.

And, suppose that your standard payment on a police car is $500 down and $500 a month.  That means you can walk into a dealership and drive out with a new police car for $1,000.

Therefore, if someone who makes $35K quits, you can buy 35 police cars.

Why is this so hard to understand?



wow...just wow.
 
2014-01-12 06:47:30 PM
an engine that's kept at operating temp will last longer than one that has to heat cycle frequently.
maybe stop running speed traps and checkpoints and do some actual police work.
and if your 200k+ mile cars are such shiat, how come I see so many people driving former cop cars around? obviously they get the job done.
 
2014-01-12 07:05:19 PM
So what's the problem? I'm sure the public won't mind the police having shiatty equipment since now it will take longer for the police to show up and taze and/or shoot you for calling them in the first place.
 
2014-01-12 07:22:13 PM
I don't see a problem. We have way too many cops with way too much equipment. Let it rot.
 
2014-01-12 07:25:50 PM

italie: GrailOfThunder: italie: Cars that are driven 12 hours a day are actually better off than cars with equivalent mileage that are driven for 15 minutes at a time.

//Thanks for submitting the opposite to the public as fact though...

Police cars are not driven nearly as gingerly as your average mom's minivan.

You've obviously never driven with my mom.


I've driven your mom, so getting a kick...
 
2014-01-12 07:32:51 PM

Edgewood Dirk: Learn to realize normal wear and tear does not apply to public service vehicles.


lolwut
 
2014-01-12 07:51:21 PM

GrailOfThunder: italie: Cars that are driven 12 hours a day are actually better off than cars with equivalent mileage that are driven for 15 minutes at a time.

//Thanks for submitting the opposite to the public as fact though...

Police cars are not driven nearly as gingerly as your average mom's minivan.


they're driven more gingerly... they idle behind a tree/sign/crest of a hill/other for hours at a stretch.
 
2014-01-12 08:01:09 PM

pastorkius: You do realize that they respond to calls over the course of a shift, right?  Not that it's usually warranted, but the response is usually to get there as fast as possible.


I think we're in agreement about the "not that it's usually warranted" part.

Except for where a call involves imminent risk to life or property, police should be obeying all traffic laws and safety regulations when responding to it -- and thus wear on their cars should occur at a similar rate as to civilian vehicles.
 
2014-01-12 08:06:30 PM

DrPainMD: italie: GrailOfThunder: italie: Cars that are driven 12 hours a day are actually better off than cars with equivalent mileage that are driven for 15 minutes at a time.

//Thanks for submitting the opposite to the public as fact though...

Police cars are not driven nearly as gingerly as your average mom's minivan.

You've obviously never driven with my mom.

I've driven your mom, so getting a kick...



She says to stop popping the clutch so early.
 
2014-01-12 08:45:01 PM

italie: Smackledorfer: italie: Smackledorfer: AndreMA: If the cars are that unreliable after 200K miles, that suggests maintenance issues?

200k miles on a law enforcement ride can mean a shiat load more engine hours than 200k on yours. Think of how much time is spent parked with the engine running.

At temp operation is like 75% less wear on a motor than operation it during warm-up. They may have shait tons more hours, but those hours are FAR easier on the motor.

I don't think you draw tge right comparison with that 75% number.

I mean *I* have a car killing two minute commute, but I think that is a rare thing.

Warm up is considered ~15 minutes. This is not only the time it takes to get the engine/coolant to temp, but the oil as well.

5 days a week commute at 10 miles each way. 10 warm up periods and 100 miles each week.

1 cop car run for 8 hours straight putting on 100 miles in his shift. One warm up peroid.

You now have two cars with the same mileage, but completely different wear and tear. There are ancillaries to the equation, but it isn't hard to get the point from here.


Your math doesn't check out.

Even at quadruple wear for the first fifteen minutes of commute, that still isn't going to match 8 hours.


I could still be wrong but that makes more sense to me than assuming all law enforcement agencies deliberately ignore the standard maintence we do on ours.
 
2014-01-12 08:59:29 PM

untaken_name: The Larch: Squidbait: FTA-The sheriff was able to buy 35 cars by not filling several open positions.

What are they paying these guys?

You don't understand math.  Let me explain it to you.  Suppose a guy just quit who made $35,000 a year, right?   Now, if you decide not to fill his position for one year, that means you have $35,000 to spend.

And, suppose that your standard payment on a police car is $500 down and $500 a month.  That means you can walk into a dealership and drive out with a new police car for $1,000.

Therefore, if someone who makes $35K quits, you can buy 35 police cars.

Why is this so hard to understand?

Because that's not buying 35 police cars. That's making a down payment and one month of payments for 35 police cars. So, you'd need $227,500 for the first year, and $210,000 per year for the remainder of the note. You'd need to eliminate 6.5 officers for those 35 cars, and hire only .5 officers to replace them until the notes are paid off (because you only have to make the down payments once). $500/month sounds like a 5-year note, minimum, so you're down 6.5 officers the first year and 6 officers for the next 4 years.


Really not seeing the negative here...
 
2014-01-12 09:03:15 PM

DarkVader: untaken_name: The Larch: Squidbait: FTA-The sheriff was able to buy 35 cars by not filling several open positions.

What are they paying these guys?

You don't understand math.  Let me explain it to you.  Suppose a guy just quit who made $35,000 a year, right?   Now, if you decide not to fill his position for one year, that means you have $35,000 to spend.

And, suppose that your standard payment on a police car is $500 down and $500 a month.  That means you can walk into a dealership and drive out with a new police car for $1,000.

Therefore, if someone who makes $35K quits, you can buy 35 police cars.

Why is this so hard to understand?

Because that's not buying 35 police cars. That's making a down payment and one month of payments for 35 police cars. So, you'd need $227,500 for the first year, and $210,000 per year for the remainder of the note. You'd need to eliminate 6.5 officers for those 35 cars, and hire only .5 officers to replace them until the notes are paid off (because you only have to make the down payments once). $500/month sounds like a 5-year note, minimum, so you're down 6.5 officers the first year and 6 officers for the next 4 years.

Really not seeing the negative here...


You're supplying 35 other police officers with new vehicles.
 
2014-01-12 09:47:19 PM

untaken_name: DarkVader: untaken_name: The Larch: Squidbait: FTA-The sheriff was able to buy 35 cars by not filling several open positions.

What are they paying these guys?

You don't understand math.  Let me explain it to you.  Suppose a guy just quit who made $35,000 a year, right?   Now, if you decide not to fill his position for one year, that means you have $35,000 to spend.

And, suppose that your standard payment on a police car is $500 down and $500 a month.  That means you can walk into a dealership and drive out with a new police car for $1,000.

Therefore, if someone who makes $35K quits, you can buy 35 police cars.

Why is this so hard to understand?

Because that's not buying 35 police cars. That's making a down payment and one month of payments for 35 police cars. So, you'd need $227,500 for the first year, and $210,000 per year for the remainder of the note. You'd need to eliminate 6.5 officers for those 35 cars, and hire only .5 officers to replace them until the notes are paid off (because you only have to make the down payments once). $500/month sounds like a 5-year note, minimum, so you're down 6.5 officers the first year and 6 officers for the next 4 years.

Really not seeing the negative here...

You're supplying 35 other police officers with new vehicles.


Yeah, but you're getting rid of 6.5.  It's a net positive.

Still, if you could get rid of the 35, and give the 6.5 broken down vehicles, you'd be even farther ahead.
 
2014-01-12 09:48:03 PM

Smackledorfer: italie: Smackledorfer: italie: Smackledorfer: AndreMA: If the cars are that unreliable after 200K miles, that suggests maintenance issues?

200k miles on a law enforcement ride can mean a shiat load more engine hours than 200k on yours. Think of how much time is spent parked with the engine running.

At temp operation is like 75% less wear on a motor than operation it during warm-up. They may have shait tons more hours, but those hours are FAR easier on the motor.

I don't think you draw tge right comparison with that 75% number.

I mean *I* have a car killing two minute commute, but I think that is a rare thing.

Warm up is considered ~15 minutes. This is not only the time it takes to get the engine/coolant to temp, but the oil as well.

5 days a week commute at 10 miles each way. 10 warm up periods and 100 miles each week.

1 cop car run for 8 hours straight putting on 100 miles in his shift. One warm up peroid.

You now have two cars with the same mileage, but completely different wear and tear. There are ancillaries to the equation, but it isn't hard to get the point from here.

Your math doesn't check out.

Even at quadruple wear for the first fifteen minutes of commute, that still isn't going to match 8 hours.



To get to 100 miles, we had "2.5 hours of commuter wear" vs "8 hours at 75% of the commuter wear".  That's ~2 hours worth of "Commuter" wear on the cop car.


//About as simple as I can make it.
 
2014-01-13 02:25:23 AM

italie: To get to 100 miles, we had "2.5 hours of commuter wear" vs "8 hours at 75% of the commuter wear".  That's ~2 hours worth of "Commuter" wear on the cop car.


//About as simple as I can make it.


Simple is good sometimes.  Other times it paints an incomplete picture that leaves a conclusion that doesn't make sense.

http://www.thehcf.org/antiidlingprimer.html

 idling an engine forces it to operate in a very inefficient and
gasoline-rich mode that, over time, can degrade the engine's performance and reduce mileage.


I'm sure if I bothered to look I could find more.  And if there is even a possibility that the basic idling the average Joe does is adding up to potential engine degradation, then it surely makes a difference in a ride running 8-16 hours a day.  Even car manuals recommend against excessive idling.

But you deliberately ignored a key point I made:

Smackledorfer: I could still be wrong but that makes more sense to me than assuming all law enforcement agencies deliberately ignore the standard maintenance we do on ours.


I find it very hard to believe that every law enforcement agency from federal to local is deliberately pissing away resources by skipping basic maintenance. If you are correct and the way they run their cars is easier on them than the way you or I do is on our cars, then that is the only conclusion that can explain why they would prefer to phase out vehicles at such an earlier mileage.
 
2014-01-13 02:35:03 AM

DarkVader: Still, if you could get rid of the 35, and give the 6.5 broken down vehicles, you'd be even farther ahead.


It's a deal. Let's do it.
 
2014-01-13 11:48:14 AM

Smackledorfer: italie: To get to 100 miles, we had "2.5 hours of commuter wear" vs "8 hours at 75% of the commuter wear".  That's ~2 hours worth of "Commuter" wear on the cop car.


//About as simple as I can make it.

Simple is good sometimes.  Other times it paints an incomplete picture that leaves a conclusion that doesn't make sense.

http://www.thehcf.org/antiidlingprimer.html

 idling an engine forces it to operate in a very inefficient and
gasoline-rich mode that, over time, can degrade the engine's performance and reduce mileage.

I'm sure if I bothered to look I could find more.  And if there is even a possibility that the basic idling the average Joe does is adding up to potential engine degradation, then it surely makes a difference in a ride running 8-16 hours a day.  Even car manuals recommend against excessive idling.

But you deliberately ignored a key point I made:

Smackledorfer: I could still be wrong but that makes more sense to me than assuming all law enforcement agencies deliberately ignore the standard maintenance we do on ours.

I find it very hard to believe that every law enforcement agency from federal to local is deliberately pissing away resources by skipping basic maintenance. If you are correct and the way they run their cars is easier on them than the way you or I do is on our cars, then that is the only conclusion that can explain why they would prefer to phase out vehicles at such an earlier mileage.



1) "I'm sure if I bothered to look I could find more." is akin to saying "I can't make my own point, so here is the first thing that came up in google".

2) The pamphlet you sited is from an environmental advocacy group, and is specifically geared toward fuel consumption...not the topic we are discussing here.

3) Anyone saying "10 seconds is all the warm-up your car needs" should take a closer look at what they just wrote. For the sake of brevity, I'll leave the reasoning at 'Because thermodynamics'.

3) Cops drive an average of 60-80 miles a shift. There isn't 8-12 hours of idling going on.

4) Idling at temp, as well as driving, are both around 75% less wear on a motor than idling/driving during the warm-up period. The difference between idling or driving at temp is negligible as compared to any not at temp operation

5) I'm ignoring your last point because I don't know why you are making it. I've never said law enforcement agencies are skipping maintenance. I completely support the notion that most police cars are far better maintained than your average civilian vehicle. (In this case, however, I would agree that a blown tire and radiator hose pretty much scream of negligence or at least a poor attempt at a money grab).
 
2014-01-13 12:07:17 PM
And just to clarify the argument further, 160K on a car is NO excuse to be running on tires this bald.


scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net

and the condition of their training grounds has NO relation to the mileage on their vehicles.


fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net

This is a money beg, plain and simple. The age of their cruisers has little to do with the point they are attempting to make. In the process, they are making the public less educated because of it.
 
2014-01-13 12:08:16 PM

italie: Smackledorfer: italie: To get to 100 miles, we had "2.5 hours of commuter wear" vs "8 hours at 75% of the commuter wear".  That's ~2 hours worth of "Commuter" wear on the cop car.


//About as simple as I can make it.

Simple is good sometimes.  Other times it paints an incomplete picture that leaves a conclusion that doesn't make sense.

http://www.thehcf.org/antiidlingprimer.html

 idling an engine forces it to operate in a very inefficient and
gasoline-rich mode that, over time, can degrade the engine's performance and reduce mileage.

I'm sure if I bothered to look I could find more.  And if there is even a possibility that the basic idling the average Joe does is adding up to potential engine degradation, then it surely makes a difference in a ride running 8-16 hours a day.  Even car manuals recommend against excessive idling.

But you deliberately ignored a key point I made:

Smackledorfer: I could still be wrong but that makes more sense to me than assuming all law enforcement agencies deliberately ignore the standard maintenance we do on ours.

I find it very hard to believe that every law enforcement agency from federal to local is deliberately pissing away resources by skipping basic maintenance. If you are correct and the way they run their cars is easier on them than the way you or I do is on our cars, then that is the only conclusion that can explain why they would prefer to phase out vehicles at such an earlier mileage.


1) "I'm sure if I bothered to look I could find more." is akin to saying "I can't make my own point, so here is the first thing that came up in google".

2) The pamphlet you sited is from an environmental advocacy group, and is specifically geared toward fuel consumption...not the topic we are discussing here.

3) Anyone saying "10 seconds is all the warm-up your car needs" should take a closer look at what they just wrote. For the sake of brevity, I'll leave the reasoning at 'Because thermodynamics'.

3) Cops drive an average of 60-80 miles a shift. There isn't 8-12 hours of idling going on.

4) Idling at temp, as well as driving, are both around 75% less wear on a motor than idling/driving during the warm-up period. The difference between idling or driving at temp is negligible as compared to any not at temp operation

5) I'm ignoring your last point because I don't know why you are making it. I've never said law enforcement agencies are skipping maintenance. I completely support the notion that most police cars are far better maintained than your average civilian vehicle. (In this case, however, I would agree that a blown tire and radiator hose pretty much scream of negligence or at least a poor attempt at a money grab).


1. As opposed to your comments, which are different how? It should be easy, since you are positive you are right, to provide evidence. The more right you are the easier this should be.

2. Except the portion quoted mentioned engine degradation, not the environment.

3. It isn't saying the car gets warm. It is saying it makes no difference to car operations because whether the next fifteen minutes are easy driving or idling won't change the length of warm up time. Do try to keep up.

3. You said three twice, and also that is bullshiat. Cops spend a great deal of time parked.

4. Why, because you say so? See #1. Also see your owner's manual - it probably recomends against long idling as well.

5. Are you in a different thread than the rest of us? The whole thing was about idiots seemingly astonished that PDs phase out their cars earlier.


Followup 1.b. You are a dick for disparaging citations when you don't provide your own. That is more annoying than trolling, imo.
 
2014-01-13 02:05:14 PM
Smackledorfer: blah blah blah...


1) You are correct, I'm not providing citations. Why? Because I  have no will to spend 3 hours writing a report for you. I summarize my point, the onus is on you to find supporting info if you would like to be right as well. You could have done the same if you like, but instead you post apamphlet with one sentence pertaining to the discussion. Apamphlet that was also way off base from reality.

1b.) You want the physics behind it? Years of knowledge gained in such fields as automotive, sensor design, basic physics, etc, etc? C'mon over. Bring beer. We'll be here a while. I'll even order a pizza.

2) The entire pamphlet was horse shait. You should feel bad for quoting any of it.

(Whether you are idling or driving your car is spewing emissions after a start due to components/sensors not being in sync/thermal equilibrium/proper operating temps/viscosity/etc. Warming up your car faster is worse for the motor than warming it up gradually. Not only are you ~not~ helping the environment, you are ~not~ helping your car.)

3) Yes it is and yes it does.

3) Yes I did, and yes they do. They also spend a lot of time driving.

4) Because science says so. If you want proof of this, again, come over. I have many books sitting on the shelf behind me, both of a physics and automotive nature. Bring beer.

5) I'm arguing this nonsense:

Random officer in video: "These cars are driven 8-12 hours a day"

In reality that is better for the vehicle, idling or not.It's all moot anyway.

Engine hours can mean nothing in relation to the the mileage of a vehicle if the engine is maintained and depending on the type of hours they were. I have a Yukon with 364K on the truck itself. The motor has 24K on it, and purrs like a gottdamn kitten.

200K on a law enforcement vehicle, could also mean the motor has 2K on it, and they blew a tire. It could mean 40,000 hours of idle time, or 40,000 hours at max rpm. It coulds mean 40,000 hours of start and stop.
 
2014-01-13 02:47:19 PM
I'm not going to argue over idle hours or driving hours.

But it's not the engines that give out. Over time, the suspension wears out, all the rubber (bushings, gaskets...) rot away. Rust is a real problem in the northern states. While they could keep the cop cars on the road forever, at some point it makes sense to replace instead of refurbish.

And governmental agencies do not buy cars or equipment with a car loan. The funding is made as a bulk item. The cost of a cop car is $30-35K with all the equipment needed. Add in special usage items (K-9 cage, SWAT equipment...), the cost climbs higher.

I see many used cop cars for sale all the time. Mostly they have between 100-150K miles on them. If the agency in the article is keeping their cars until 200K miles, there is a problem.
 
2014-01-13 03:12:55 PM

italie: Smackledorfer: blah blah blah...


1) You are correct, I'm not providing citations. Why? Because I  have no will to spend 3 hours writing a report for you. I summarize my point, the onus is on you to find supporting info if you would like to be right as well. You could have done the same if you like, but instead you post apamphlet with one sentence pertaining to the discussion. Apamphlet that was also way off base from reality.

1b.) You want the physics behind it? Years of knowledge gained in such fields as automotive, sensor design, basic physics, etc, etc? C'mon over. Bring beer. We'll be here a while. I'll even order a pizza.

2) The entire pamphlet was horse shait. You should feel bad for quoting any of it.

(Whether you are idling or driving your car is spewing emissions after a start due to components/sensors not being in sync/thermal equilibrium/proper operating temps/viscosity/etc. Warming up your car faster is worse for the motor than warming it up gradually. Not only are you ~not~ helping the environment, you are ~not~ helping your car.)

3) Yes it is and yes it does.

3) Yes I did, and yes they do. They also spend a lot of time driving.

4) Because science says so. If you want proof of this, again, come over. I have many books sitting on the shelf behind me, both of a physics and automotive nature. Bring beer.

5) I'm arguing this nonsense:

Random officer in video: "These cars are driven 8-12 hours a day"

In reality that is better for the vehicle, idling or not.It's all moot anyway.

Engine hours can mean nothing in relation to the the mileage of a vehicle if the engine is maintained and depending on the type of hours they were. I have a Yukon with 364K on the truck itself. The motor has 24K on it, and purrs like a gottdamn kitten.

200K on a law enforcement vehicle, could also mean the motor has 2K on it, and they blew a tire. It could mean 40,000 hours of idle time, or 40,000 hours at max rpm. It coulds mean 40,000 hours of start and stop.


Demand citations, provide none.

Textbook fark douchebag.
 
2014-01-13 04:04:01 PM

Smackledorfer: Demand citations, provide none.

Textbook fark douchebag.



Delivered fact, weak attempt to explore on his own. Expects to be spoon fed.

Meet the other end of the spectrum.

//Willing to waste 10 minutes with banter. If you want me to do your homework, my time is worth something.
///Bring beer.
 
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