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(Hot Air)   When the NY Times finally turns on Obamacare and calls it a disaster, it will be time to repeal it. Oh wait, they just did   (hotair.com) divider line 196
    More: Interesting, NYT, obamacare, primary care physicians, weekly address, metered-dose inhaler, health insurance  
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2080 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 Jan 2014 at 2:48 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-12 11:08:04 AM  
I can not imagine a more opportune time to propose a comprehensive alternative.

/ we're waiting
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-01-12 11:13:09 AM  

Lawnchair: I can not imagine a more opportune time to propose a comprehensive alternative.

/ we're waiting


OK.  Single payer system modeled on Canada's with universal coverage.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-01-12 11:14:26 AM  
Doctors themselves often do not know if they are in the network of providers for plans sold on the exchange.

Don't ask the doctor. A big office will have a non-MD insurance relations expert on staff. A traditional family doctor will be too busy trying to understand medical billing software to see patients and tell them he doesn't understand medical billing software.
 
2014-01-12 11:19:16 AM  

ZAZ: Doctors themselves often do not know if they are in the network of providers for plans sold on the exchange.

Don't ask the doctor. A big office will have a non-MD insurance relations expert on staff. A traditional family doctor will be too busy trying to understand medical billing software to see patients and tell them he doesn't understand medical billing software.


Seriously. I'm ok with my doctor not knowing everything about every patient's insurance plan. Just get the medicine part right and we're good

/I can do my own damned research
 
2014-01-12 11:19:25 AM  
they just repealed it? wait, what?
 
2014-01-12 11:20:00 AM  

vpb: Lawnchair: I can not imagine a more opportune time to propose a comprehensive alternative.

/ we're waiting

OK.  Single payer system modeled on Canada's with universal coverage.


or just take the words "over 65" out of the medicare act.
 
2014-01-12 11:20:18 AM  
Why would you ask the doctor in the first place? Wouldn't it be more pertinent to ask the insurer? I did that for my dentist.
 
2014-01-12 11:41:19 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: Why would you ask the doctor in the first place? Wouldn't it be more pertinent to ask the insurer? I did that for my dentist.


I have no idea. Docs never want to talk money.
 
2014-01-12 11:50:50 AM  
So, the Mercury and Apollo programs were a success on the first day, right?

How about WWII, Kasserine Pass?

If you people actually believed the political BS that this would be a smooth transition, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you. We're talking about tens of millions of people here. One of the reasons why people wanted single-payer is that, though it would also take time for the transition to be fully undertaken, it had less chance of screw-ups in trying to keep thousands of health plans in the system to sort through. Not to mention the savings in overhead would be substantial.

But, that's socialism and that's evil stuff.
 
2014-01-12 11:55:18 AM  

quickdraw: cameroncrazy1984: Why would you ask the doctor in the first place? Wouldn't it be more pertinent to ask the insurer? I did that for my dentist.

I have no idea. Docs never want to talk money.


I had to explain to a doctor the other day that he had to switch a patient from fluoxetine tablets to capsules. For one simple reason: The tabs cost $1 each and the capsules are about $0.05 each. That unless their was a specific medical reason for the tabs (unable to swallow caps or something) he had to make the switch.

Doing that for the past year, I've saved almost $30,000. That's just one drug.

It's insane how much you can save if you actually do the work.

Docs don't know about the cost either. It would help if they did, but I think that's up to people like me to find out and help guide them on the right path. Just let them focus on the doctoring, and not making heinous errors in their prescriptions. (They make a ton of errors.)
 
2014-01-12 12:13:43 PM  
By the way, asthma attacks can kill.

Your concern is duly noted, Hot Air.

If it wasn't for the GOP's thirty plus year history of fighting any type of effective health care reform in order to please the powerful insurance lobby I could almost believe you meant a word of it.

The instant these idiots start using the words "single" and "payer" in their criticisms I'll start taking them seriously.
 
2014-01-12 12:15:40 PM  
Wait.  Since when is HotAir championing what NYT has to say?
 
2014-01-12 12:24:19 PM  

I_Am_Weasel: Wait.  Since when is HotAir championing what NYT has to say?


Since they started making shiat up about what the NYT meant.
 
2014-01-12 12:25:27 PM  
Wow it is just like what happens every time my employer changes insurance plans and I have to check if my doctors are still in network, which I do online, it is almost like the people opposed to the ACA want big government to do everything for people.  I think that many people, especially the ones complaining about Obamacare, really would prefer a single payer system.
 
2014-01-12 12:25:35 PM  

NewportBarGuy: So, the Mercury and Apollo programs were a success on the first day, right?

How about WWII, Kasserine Pass?

If you people actually believed the political BS that this would be a smooth transition, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you. We're talking about tens of millions of people here. One of the reasons why people wanted single-payer is that, though it would also take time for the transition to be fully undertaken, it had less chance of screw-ups in trying to keep thousands of health plans in the system to sort through. Not to mention the savings in overhead would be substantial.

But, that's socialism and that's evil stuff.


Do you really believe what you are writing?  In the three years the ACA has been law, the administration has been able to create and implement a working website.  They failed.


The problem is that there are people that had insurance that they liked that was declared illegal by the US.  Why?  Because it didn't give maternity care to men or free condoms to post menopausal women.

And now, you have millions that are finding out that they aren't saving $2500 a year, but are having to pay $12,600 deductibles (my quote).

/don't strain your neck turning it to look the other way so hard.
 
2014-01-12 12:30:23 PM  

I_Am_Weasel: Wait.  Since when is HotAir championing what NYT has to say?


When it fits their narrative.

Typical conservative attitude, last week saw an article claiming the people behind a study showing how a minimum wage were so farking wrong, two paragraphs later was using  one of the authors of that study as a citation for why unemployment benefits shouldn't be extended.
 
2014-01-12 12:32:26 PM  

spongeboob: I_Am_Weasel: Wait.  Since when is HotAir championing what NYT has to say?

When it fits their narrative.

Typical conservative attitude, last week saw an article claiming the people behind a study showing how a minimum wage increase would be good for the country and help raise people out of poverty were so farking wrong, two paragraphs later was using  one of the authors of that study as a citation for why unemployment benefits shouldn't be extended.


FTFM
Why does Fark hate half my posts sometimes
 
2014-01-12 12:48:46 PM  

SauronWasFramed: NewportBarGuy: So, the Mercury and Apollo programs were a success on the first day, right?

How about WWII, Kasserine Pass?

If you people actually believed the political BS that this would be a smooth transition, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you. We're talking about tens of millions of people here. One of the reasons why people wanted single-payer is that, though it would also take time for the transition to be fully undertaken, it had less chance of screw-ups in trying to keep thousands of health plans in the system to sort through. Not to mention the savings in overhead would be substantial.

But, that's socialism and that's evil stuff.

Do you really believe what you are writing?  In the three years the ACA has been law, the administration has been able to create and implement a working website.  They failed.


The problem is that there are people that had insurance that they liked that was declared illegal by the US.  Why?  Because it didn't give maternity care to men or free condoms to post menopausal women.

And now, you have millions that are finding out that they aren't saving $2500 a year, but are having to pay $12,600 deductibles (my quote).

/don't strain your neck turning it to look the other way so hard.


You keep spouting the same lie in ever Obamacare thread.
 
2014-01-12 12:58:12 PM  

SauronWasFramed: And now, you have millions that are finding out that they aren't saving $2500 a year, but are having to pay $12,600 deductibles (my quote).

/don't strain your neck turning it to look the other way so hard.


Don't strain yourself spouting the same unverified bullsh*t in every thread.
 
2014-01-12 01:02:30 PM  
Can anyone point out an insurance plan that actually gives maternity care to men because that sounds like a great plan making sure that the father to be is healthy enough to care for a new baby, does that include counseling on what to expect once the baby arrives?


and news flash post menopausal women do have sex and condoms can prevent many kinds of sexually transmitted diseases.  A free six months of Fark to anyone who can post a citation showing any insurance company that actually provides free condoms by the way in the next hour.
 
2014-01-12 01:14:07 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: SauronWasFramed: And now, you have millions that are finding out that they aren't saving $2500 a year, but are having to pay $12,600 deductibles (my quote).

/don't strain your neck turning it to look the other way so hard.

Don't strain yourself spouting the same unverified bullsh*t in every thread.


propasaurus: SauronWasFramed: NewportBarGuy: So, the Mercury and Apollo programs were a success on the first day, right?

How about WWII, Kasserine Pass?

If you people actually believed the political BS that this would be a smooth transition, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you. We're talking about tens of millions of people here. One of the reasons why people wanted single-payer is that, though it would also take time for the transition to be fully undertaken, it had less chance of screw-ups in trying to keep thousands of health plans in the system to sort through. Not to mention the savings in overhead would be substantial.

But, that's socialism and that's evil stuff.

Do you really believe what you are writing?  In the three years the ACA has been law, the administration has been able to create and implement a working website.  They failed.


The problem is that there are people that had insurance that they liked that was declared illegal by the US.  Why?  Because it didn't give maternity care to men or free condoms to post menopausal women.

And now, you have millions that are finding out that they aren't saving $2500 a year, but are having to pay $12,600 deductibles (my quote).

/don't strain your neck turning it to look the other way so hard.

You keep spouting the same lie in ever Obamacare thread.


The reason neither of you believe that my quoted premium was $940 a month with a $12,600 deductible is because both of you know that there isn't a universe where this would be considered affordable.  Yet, it IS what I was quoted by the healthcare.gov site.  And, it took three weeks to get the quote.  What was funny was that I went to ehealthinsurance.com and got the same quote in about five minutes.

I understand your shock and disbelief.  I didn't believe it either.

so, if you wish to actually learn for yourself (instead of randomly accusing me of being a liar), go and see:

Coverage  zip code - 39157

male dob:  7/1/1962
female dob 1/1/1956
female (college student) 1/1/1995
http://www.ehealthinsurance.com/ehi/ifp/plan-details?planKey=3893:100 0 07&productLine=IFP"> http://www.ehealthinsurance.com/ehi/ifp/plan-details?planKey=3893:1000 07&productLine=IFP"> Humana Bronze

No Charge after deductible: $12,600 (family)
$942.22 per month


/No, I don't get a subsidy....Our family income exceeds $79K a year.  No, I am not willing to take a cut in pay to save on my premiums.

/bottom line, I am NOT lying.  This is what young people have to look forward to when they get older.  Their premiums will go up.  And if I were making $80K a year, my premiums and deductible would be 30% of gross pay/up to 37% of my net pay. 

Now, do either of you consider this affordable?

all non smokers
 
2014-01-12 01:15:04 PM  
If only there were some sort of healthcare system where everybody was covered for everything all the time. Perhaps some sort of tax-based system, so there would be no confusion about who paid their premiums.
 
2014-01-12 01:16:43 PM  

SauronWasFramed: Now, do either of you consider this affordable?


fta Despite the problems, Mr. Donahue, 58, a retired software engineer, is delighted with his new coverage from Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Texas. The monthly premium for him and his wife is $1,062, but the federal government pays a subsidy of $903. The couple pay the remainder, $159 a month.

"It's a superb deal," Mr. Donahue said.


But then, Mr Donahue clearly hates America
 
2014-01-12 01:17:53 PM  

SauronWasFramed: No Charge after deductible: $12,600 (family)
$942.22 per month


What is e-healthinsurance.com? That's not healthcare.gov (the actual exchange website).

You're looking at private plans, which is your issue.
 
2014-01-12 01:22:55 PM  
It would also make your story more believable if your "deductible" was under the $11,900 yearly out-of-pocket cost cap.
 
2014-01-12 01:24:03 PM  
People don't have perfect coverage so we should repeal and give them NO coverage, that's much better!

fc06.deviantart.net
 
2014-01-12 01:27:30 PM  

ZAZ: Doctors themselves often do not know if they are in the network of providers for plans sold on the exchange.

Don't ask the doctor. A big office will have a non-MD insurance relations expert on staff. A traditional family doctor will be too busy trying to understand medical billing software to see patients and tell them he doesn't understand medical billing software.


When I left active-duty to switch to the National Guard, I went from TRICARE Prime, to TRICARE Reserve Select.  I had to have some exam, and then mentioned that I'd have to have the results sent to my unit so I could be filed with my military medical records.  The doctor was surprised that his office took TRS, because I was the first Guardsman he treated.

This was in 2009ish?

DAMN YOU OBAMACARE!!!
 
2014-01-12 01:29:22 PM  

spongeboob: Can anyone point out an insurance plan that actually gives maternity care to men because that sounds like a great plan making sure that the father to be is healthy enough to care for a new baby, does that include counseling on what to expect once the baby arrives?


Under the ACA, insurers aren't allowed to know if you're a man or women (I think), so they need to provide the same insurance policy to everyone.
 
2014-01-12 01:31:08 PM  

SauronWasFramed: Now, do either of you consider this affordable?


We went over this last thread - there's no evidence is materially more affordable than you're options would have been before Obamacare.

How much do you think it cost to insure a 59 year old on the individual market in 2009 in your zip code?
 
2014-01-12 01:33:14 PM  
The only people who think the New York Times is some liberal propaganda rag are the same people who think Fox News is fair and balanced.

Responsible journalism smells a lot like communism to them.
 
2014-01-12 01:36:07 PM  

SauronWasFramed: This is what young people have to look forward to when they get older.  Their premiums will go up.


I'm confused. So on the one hand, Obamacare is terrible before it forces young healthy people onto healthcare to defray the cost of providing it to older, sicker people. But on the other hand, Obamacare is terrible because it permits charging old people more than young people.

Pick one complaint or the other. You can't have both.
 
2014-01-12 01:39:18 PM  

DamnYankees: SauronWasFramed: This is what young people have to look forward to when they get older.  Their premiums will go up.

I'm confused. So on the one hand, Obamacare is terrible before it forces young healthy people onto healthcare to defray the cost of providing it to older, sicker people. But on the other hand, Obamacare is terrible because it permits charging old people more than young people.

Pick one complaint or the other. You can't have both.


I took that to mean the author was speaking of teens and 20-somethings who are still covered by their parent's plans. Yes, their premiums will go from zero to 'more than zero'. I think I'm supposed to be outraged.
 
2014-01-12 01:40:28 PM  

NewportBarGuy: So, the Mercury and Apollo programs were a success on the first day, right?


This. I swear to f*cking god we have no appetite for anything big any more.

/and that is why we won't have high speed rail or anything else that's good
//except if the trains themselves have missile launchers on them, I guess
 
2014-01-12 01:40:30 PM  

SauronWasFramed: The reason neither of you believe that my quoted premium was $940 a month with a $12,600 deductible is because both of you know that there isn't a universe where this would be considered affordable.


Oh, I believe you. I also pointed out in previous threads where, if you stopped biatching, you could find better alternatives. Like instead of going with the minimum plan available because that's unwise for a family of two 50-plusses with a dependent in college, you get a silver or gold plan.

Humana Local Preferred Silver, $1,092/month, $9,200 deductible. $3,400 deductible savings for spending $1,548 more in premiums.

Humana Local Preferred Gold, $1,246/month, $5,000 deductible. $7,600 deductible savings for spending $3,360 more in premiums.

Also, either way you'd looking at your health coverage costing, what 15% of your income? That's not bad, especially if you consider how much it costs to people who aren't making just shy of $80k.
 
2014-01-12 01:40:35 PM  

Notabunny: I took that to mean the author was speaking of teens and 20-somethings who are still covered by their parent's plans. Yes, their premiums will go from zero to 'more than zero'. I think I'm supposed to be outraged.


Their premiums aren't zero now, though. They are just paid by their parents, presumably.
 
2014-01-12 01:42:04 PM  
If you're over 50 and have a spouse over 50 and you're NOT looking at the plan with the lowest deductible considering the average medical expenses of middle-aged Americans, you're a farking idiot. Or you're just whining and using the worst-looking numbers because you'd rather make Obamacare look bad than do what's in your best interests as a consumer.
 
2014-01-12 01:42:09 PM  

Bloody William: SauronWasFramed: The reason neither of you believe that my quoted premium was $940 a month with a $12,600 deductible is because both of you know that there isn't a universe where this would be considered affordable.

Oh, I believe you. I also pointed out in previous threads where, if you stopped biatching, you could find better alternatives. Like instead of going with the minimum plan available because that's unwise for a family of two 50-plusses with a dependent in college, you get a silver or gold plan.

Humana Local Preferred Silver, $1,092/month, $9,200 deductible. $3,400 deductible savings for spending $1,548 more in premiums.

Humana Local Preferred Gold, $1,246/month, $5,000 deductible. $7,600 deductible savings for spending $3,360 more in premiums.

Also, either way you'd looking at your health coverage costing, what 15% of your income? That's not bad, especially if you consider how much it costs to people who aren't making just shy of $80k.


I think he's b*tching that his healthcare isn't free. He's probably one of those people who didn't want a public option or single payer either, too.
 
2014-01-12 01:43:07 PM  

themindiswatching: I think he's b*tching that his healthcare isn't free.


I think he'd find many of us more than willing to sign up for lowering the Medicare age.
 
2014-01-12 01:51:19 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: SauronWasFramed: No Charge after deductible: $12,600 (family)
$942.22 per month

What is e-healthinsurance.com? That's not healthcare.gov (the actual exchange website).

You're looking at private plans, which is your issue.


They're getting into a business that   currently dominates. It's operated a clearinghouse-style online exchange since 1999 that's very similar to what state and federal governments plan to launch next month, where people who want to buy individual insurance policies enter some personal information and get the chance to buy plans from multiple carriers.

Never heard of it either.
 
2014-01-12 01:56:49 PM  

spongeboob: cameroncrazy1984: SauronWasFramed: No Charge after deductible: $12,600 (family)
$942.22 per month

What is e-healthinsurance.com? That's not healthcare.gov (the actual exchange website).

You're looking at private plans, which is your issue.

They're getting into a business that   currently dominates. It's operated a clearinghouse-style online exchange since 1999 that's very similar to what state and federal governments plan to launch next month, where people who want to buy individual insurance policies enter some personal information and get the chance to buy plans from multiple carriers.

Never heard of it either.


Fark throw away the link  http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/stories/2013/september/17/ehealthinsu r ance.aspx
let's see if it works this time.
 
2014-01-12 01:57:18 PM  

DamnYankees: themindiswatching: I think he's b*tching that his healthcare isn't free.

I think he'd find many of us more than willing to sign up for lowering the Medicare age.


Lowering it to "birth"?. I like that idea.
 
2014-01-12 02:01:05 PM  
So if they repeal it, what happens to the people who already have it?
 
2014-01-12 02:02:23 PM  

Coverage  zip code - 39157


Well there's your problem. You live in Mississippi

. Of course health care is more expensive, doctors have to spend all their time asking their patients to put down the cigarette and convincing them that pork rinds aren't a vegetable.

It's much, much cheaper in states that don't resemble third world shiatholes.
 
2014-01-12 02:06:32 PM  

Mugato: So if they repeal it, what happens to the people who already have it?


The takers? Who cares? They won't vote for Republicans, anyway.
 
2014-01-12 02:08:22 PM  

what_now: pork rinds aren't a vegetable.


Pork rinds are too a vegetable!!! What else am I supposed to include with my sketti?
 
2014-01-12 02:10:12 PM  
I've gone through it a few times now, and I can't afford Obamacare, just like I couldn't afford insurance before. I'm just shy of the poverty line, so no subsidies for me. I'm not young, so my monthly premiums are more than I spend on food each month. For two of us. They're more than my student loan payment, which I can't pay half the time either. Let's see--food or insurance? The house payment (which is revoltingly low--you all would barf if I told you how much), or my insurance payment?

Somehow I knew it would turn out just like that. I'm not here to argue about it either. I can't afford it.
 
2014-01-12 02:13:36 PM  

cryinoutloud: I'm just shy of the poverty line, so no subsidies for me.


Subsidies are included up to 400% of the poverty line. So...yes subsidies for you. Go look it up before you have to pay a penalty!
 
2014-01-12 02:14:05 PM  

cryinoutloud: I've gone through it a few times now, and I can't afford Obamacare, just like I couldn't afford insurance before. I'm just shy of the poverty line, so no subsidies for me. I'm not young, so my monthly premiums are more than I spend on food each month. For two of us. They're more than my student loan payment, which I can't pay half the time either. Let's see--food or insurance? The house payment (which is revoltingly low--you all would barf if I told you how much), or my insurance payment?


Subsidies are available for everyone below four times the poverty line. How can you make almost $80K per year and not be able to pay your student loan payments?
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-01-12 02:20:09 PM  
Notabunny:

The takers? Who cares? They won't vote for Republicans, anyway.

They ARE Republicans.
 
2014-01-12 02:23:50 PM  
CTRL-F "disaster"

0 of 0
 
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