FriarReb98: I blame hipsters.
Rincewind53: Uh, yeah. Declining male power is largely the result of the economy making traditionally male-dominated physical jobs mostly obsolete."It's the economy, stupid"
Underwater Bystander: Isn't the idea of modern life that everyone should be whatever they want? We ("applaud" is the wrong word, but) accept when people want to do things like decide to change their gender or decide to defy expectation not fall into traditional roles in more subtle ways.I suspect the older incarnations of masculinity will never go away. Some men will always want to look like Arnold while others will proudly order froo-froo drinks at bars. Some will do both. Neither is wrong, so why should we care? Everybody just does their own thing./missing the point?//maybe
studebaker hoch: Smart people don't have to work physical jobs.
rebelyell2006: DanZero:Whenever I read "cisgender" my mind thinks "Cisalpine Gaul" and I wonder what Julius Caesar has to do with Feminism.
wyltoknow: I think it farked up my idea of gender to grow up hearing things like how being a man means being tough, confident, brave, successful, ingenious, yadda yadda. I'm a girl and I think "what? I want to be those things, I want to know useful things and be able to get shiat done." I eschewed anything girly, because that message screamed to me that being a woman meant being weak, helpless, and stupid. I realized my perception was off when I got older, but now I regret not embracing more female things when I was younger and making myself into a more balanced individual.Do we need to assign gender roles to basic personality traits? Shouldn't we teach all children to express confidence, learn how to fix things and solve problems themselves, to not back down from challenges?
rohar: cryinoutloud: What i hate now is that if I want to ask someone advice about my car, I have to go find an old guy. The young guys know nothing. Which is OK, since I'm an old gal, but why can't I have a scenario like this ever?This, I believe, is the problem. The old social constructs are gone within the male community. It has nothing to do with women and how men interact with them directly.Used to be men hung around their families permanently. Inevitably, you ended up in a situation where dad was home every night, but worked all day. The retired men stayed home and did hobby stuff because, well, they were retired. Generally good spirited old farts, but a bit rough around the edges.Well, dad was gone all day and mom's busy, so what's a young kid gonna do on summer vacation? Eventually, the young boy and the retired man will meet. They're in the same neighborhood. The kid inevitably learns a lot. Old men who manage to hold a family together for a lifetime know a thing or two. Next thing you know, the kid's helping fix a carburetor, figuring out how plumbing works, adding electrical circuits etc. because they're things that need to be done. All the while, that old codger is talking to that kid teaching life lessons on everything from how to handle yourself in public to dating issues.The old man in the neighborhood is gone today. The boys have no source of education./I miss my "old man in the neighborhood" but we aged and he passed//I work from home now, not quite that old yet, but there's a random neighbor kid in the shop with me all summer every summer
Gentoolive: The sissification of men started long ago. Do you notice in old black and white tv programs the father figure is a standup, respected leader of the household.Nowadays the father figure is the brunt of any joke on television programs.
jennyz: And we wonder why more and more marriages are sexless and end in divorce....Manly men are attractive, dammit.
RedPhoenix122: quickdraw: DanZero: [img.photobucket.com image 600x445]Have you ever met anyone like that? Because I never have and I live in Portland. Maybe you need to get out more.That's the MRA depiction of women.
DanZero: [img.photobucket.com image 600x445]
starsrift: dared to have a baby
Enemabag Jones: However it does not help that HR policies are too often tuned to issues of sensitivity and how it makes people feel.
ultraholland: TFA: we need to blame... men.This is every Jezebel article.
baconbeard: I understand where the author is coming from. When the only men you encounter are the pathetic, pussified gamma males taking the same gender studies courses that you are (or post to the same news aggregator site that you do), it's easy to come to the these conclusions.
ShonenBat: I guess I'm one of the few who finds the argument compelling. The shift of a majority of women from being homemakers to the workplace,combined with the decline of the manufacturing sector and adding unto that the rise of global competition would explain a lot as far as this so-called decline in masculinity goes. As the money goes, so goes the culture.
just_intonation: jennyz: And we wonder why more and more marriages are sexless and end in divorce....Manly men are attractive, dammit.That's because the women start saying NO as soon as they get that damn ring on their finger.Wish we men could sue for entrapment in such cases. It's damn near criminal.
Bumblefark: I think we've just gotten horribly confused about the concept of "traditional masculinity." People now seem to equate it with cartoonish, hyper-macho bullshiat, when traditionally that would have been regarded as a failure of masculinity.Historically (or at least, what I've read of the intellectual history), "masculinity" has tended to be defined with four overarching themes: 1) a stoic command of one's emotions, 2) equanimity toward adversity, 3) magnanimity, especially toward women and children, and 4) self-sacrifice to duty, honor, and excellence.I'm a traditionally masculine guy, in those terms. I drink plenty of froo-froo drinks, and have never wanted to look like Arnold. (Or He-Man, or whatever else went wrong with the masculine self-image starting in the 1980s, when musculature somehow became equated with manhood).And, I'll admit I don't have much patience for non-masculine/emasculated/macho men -- and I don't think society is better off for having them around.
cryinoutloud: walktoanarcade: Some "men" today do look as though they've made it a point to get help to lift any object they ever needed to lift because they are scrawnier than many women.What i hate now is that if I want to ask someone advice about my car, I have to go find an old guy. The young guys know nothing. Which is OK, since I'm an old gal, but why can't I have a scenario like this ever?[www.betcheslovethis.com image 367x600]"Well, ma'am, I think you need a tune-up. A little fine tuning. You gotta grab hold and tighten up a few things, move them around some. On your car, I mean. Your car--GET THE HELL AWAY FROM ME!"
zepillin: JoieD'Zen: men should look like men.men have facial hairboy's do not
JoieD'Zen: Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: JoieD'Zen: Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: AbiNormal:Jesus, they're making men without chests now.This is worse than I thought.This all started when men began waxing their chest hair.There needs to be a Dove advertising campaign to promote chest hair beauty.I don't want get naked with some guy that is so hairy he looks like he is always wearing a sweater, but men should look like men./middle aged
FarkQued: studebaker hoch: Smart people don't have to work physical jobs.You never had to stand through a 4 hour brain surgery, stress out over the details of a billion dollar deal making it through all of the hurdles, do a million situps and pushups to be in shape for a movie, etc. Many of the highest paying jobs have some physical aspect to them, if even extreme mental focus (the brain is part of the body). Most people would benefit from some hard labor in their life just to learn real work ethic.As for Jezebel's article, she seems awfully pissed off that there are not enough of us manly men left to sweep her off her feet, put her in her place and fark her brains out daily, IMO. She'd be allot happier if she'd stop picking effeminate men for boyfriends - as would all straight women.
wax_on: Oh who gives a shiat. Are the old 'masculine' gender stereotypes even worth saving? Can't we all just get along?
AbiNormal: [content.artofmanliness.com image 400x500]
ajgeek: grumpfuff: Is this the thread where men argue over what makes a "real man," while ignoring the fact that a "real man" wouldn't give two shiats about other people thinking he's not masculine enough/too masculine?No one cares what you think. Go away and let the men talk.
gadian: I would think men would welcome the opportunity to be a little softer and carry fewer of the traditional burdens. After all, I know far more men who struggle with not being perceived as manly enough than struggle with being too manly
cryinoutloud: Oh Jezebel. Your source for manufactured outrage, step right up.MaudlinMutantMollusk: Homo sapiens: the first species to DESERVE extinctionVery true. So true, it's truly true.
JoieD'Zen: ultraholland: TFA: we need to blame... men.This is every Jezebel article.I read a Jezebel article recently that interviewed Camille Paglia. She and her partner have n 11 year old son. She claims society is stripping men of masculine traits, starting in childhood. She has some good points.
bunner: I guess it is difficult to be a woman, these days. The men who excite them, scare them, the ones they can tame and control bore the piss out of them, and they're up to their gazoinkies in OTHER WOMEN telling them what they should have and want and why. Most of whom are just trying to you that the one person who should be your best friend is an oppressive, useless patriarchal prick who is holding you DOWN, honey! Then again, anybody over the age of 18 should have SOME ability to think for themselves, yanno?
jennyz: Yankees Team Gynecologist: jennyz: And we wonder why more and more marriages are sexless and end in divorce....Manly men are attractive, dammit.Traditional, manly epitome of a vibrant and flourishing marriage:[static.getkempt.com image 217x274]Strawman argument, on Fark? I'm shocked.
cryinoutloud: We get tired of you guys always trying to take the boxes out of our hands, or standing around snickering because we can't lift 100 pounds like YOU can.Well, congratulations--you're stronger than a typical woman!
Snarfangel: It seems to be a race between artificial sperm and sexy fembots in the battle of the sexes.Ha! Just kidding. Fembots will be first, since men will have an incentive, and tend to be well-represented in science. Artificial sperm will arrive sometime after sandwich-making robots and motorized beer dispensers.
MechaPyx: And the men just smile and nod and go back to being men confident in themselves and their ability to find a place in this world.
gadian: baconbeard: I understand where the author is coming from. When the only men you encounter are the pathetic, pussified gamma males taking the same gender studies courses that you are (or post to the same news aggregator site that you do), it's easy to come to the these conclusions.WTH is a gamma male? I thought the hate was on for those pussy Beta dudes who like to hug, let their "partners" have girls' nights out, and actually...talk about how they feel. Is there a new man-on-man hating division?
bunner: You don't have to pull a gun on people to steal from them. Just keep them hating each other 24/7 while you pick their pockets.
Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: We need meninism to get us back on par with women.I'll be on the couch playing video games and being a grown-up kid in the meantime.
quickdraw: DanZero: [img.photobucket.com image 600x445]Have you ever met anyone like that? Because I never have and I live in Portland. Maybe you need to get out more.
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