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(Some Windows Guy)   Microsoft to ship Windows 9 "Threshold" in April 2015, will likely recast Windows 8 series as the equivalent of Vista   (winsupersite.com) divider line 273
    More: Interesting, Windows, threshold, Microsoft, Vista, Start Menu, World Series, application software, Steven Sinofsky  
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5023 clicks; posted to Geek » on 11 Jan 2014 at 8:46 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



273 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-01-11 07:13:21 PM  
Microsoft can't do crap in 15 months, except change the GUI. Windows 8, for all the bad PR, is a solid OS.
 
2014-01-11 07:17:48 PM  

simplicimus: Microsoft can't do crap in 15 months, except change the GUI. Windows 8, for all the bad PR, is a solid OS.


Except for the new version of Outlook not supporting POP3 accounts I haven't had any problems with it.
 
2014-01-11 07:21:44 PM  

fusillade762: simplicimus: Microsoft can't do crap in 15 months, except change the GUI. Windows 8, for all the bad PR, is a solid OS.

Except for the new version of Outlook not supporting POP3 accounts I haven't had any problems with it.


Haven't used Outlook in years, but it's strange they dropped POP3 support. Wonder why?
 
2014-01-11 08:00:05 PM  
I do think the comparison of Windows 8 to Vista is correct in this way: it comes at an awkward time in the computer industry, when a lot of the computers coming out aren't really suited to run it.  A lot of the computers shipping at the time Vista came out barely made its minimum requirements, and thus Vista got the reputation of being slow and buggy.  And Windows 8 comes out at a time when most systems shipping are still using the traditional mouse & keyboard or trackpad navigation system, and don't have touchscreens.  I've played around with a PC with a touchscreen, and a Surface Pro tab, and the experience is far better when you can touch the screen than when you're trying to get your mouse into just the right position to make the menu bar slide out.
 
2014-01-11 08:03:24 PM  

jake_lex: I do think the comparison of Windows 8 to Vista is correct in this way: it comes at an awkward time in the computer industry, when a lot of the computers coming out aren't really suited to run it.  A lot of the computers shipping at the time Vista came out barely made its minimum requirements, and thus Vista got the reputation of being slow and buggy.  And Windows 8 comes out at a time when most systems shipping are still using the traditional mouse & keyboard or trackpad navigation system, and don't have touchscreens.  I've played around with a PC with a touchscreen, and a Surface Pro tab, and the experience is far better when you can touch the screen than when you're trying to get your mouse into just the right position to make the menu bar slide out.


All of my monitors are 24" or larger and are more than an arm's length away.

I sure hope Microsoft can get that through their epically thick skulls this time.
 
2014-01-11 08:10:10 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: jake_lex: I do think the comparison of Windows 8 to Vista is correct in this way: it comes at an awkward time in the computer industry, when a lot of the computers coming out aren't really suited to run it.  A lot of the computers shipping at the time Vista came out barely made its minimum requirements, and thus Vista got the reputation of being slow and buggy.  And Windows 8 comes out at a time when most systems shipping are still using the traditional mouse & keyboard or trackpad navigation system, and don't have touchscreens.  I've played around with a PC with a touchscreen, and a Surface Pro tab, and the experience is far better when you can touch the screen than when you're trying to get your mouse into just the right position to make the menu bar slide out.

All of my monitors are 24" or larger and are more than an arm's length away.

I sure hope Microsoft can get that through their epically thick skulls this time.


Yeah, and I don't wanna go all Mac fanboy here, but this is something Apple's definitely been smarter about. Mac OS X and iOS are edging closer, but Apple is wise enough to not put the same interface on both my 27" iMac and my 10" iPad.
 
2014-01-11 08:12:24 PM  

simplicimus: fusillade762: simplicimus: Microsoft can't do crap in 15 months, except change the GUI. Windows 8, for all the bad PR, is a solid OS.

Except for the new version of Outlook not supporting POP3 accounts I haven't had any problems with it.

Haven't used Outlook in years, but it's strange they dropped POP3 support. Wonder why?


I have Outlook 2013 and it has POP3 support.  Is there a newer version?
 
2014-01-11 08:26:43 PM  

Lsherm: simplicimus: fusillade762: simplicimus: Microsoft can't do crap in 15 months, except change the GUI. Windows 8, for all the bad PR, is a solid OS.

Except for the new version of Outlook not supporting POP3 accounts I haven't had any problems with it.

Haven't used Outlook in years, but it's strange they dropped POP3 support. Wonder why?

I have Outlook 2013 and it has POP3 support.  Is there a newer version?


Maybe it's just their "Mail App" which I may have mistaken for Outlook.

The Mail app, which comes with Windows 8.1 and Windows RT 8.1, doesn't support adding email accounts that use POP (Post Office Protocol).

In any event I'm quite happy with Thunderbird now.
 
2014-01-11 08:31:05 PM  
My current laptop should be more than capable of making it until April 2015.

If Windows 9 doesn't suck I'll upgrade then. No farking way in hell am I buying a Windows 8 machine.
 
2014-01-11 08:41:47 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: jake_lex: I do think the comparison of Windows 8 to Vista is correct in this way: it comes at an awkward time in the computer industry, when a lot of the computers coming out aren't really suited to run it.  A lot of the computers shipping at the time Vista came out barely made its minimum requirements, and thus Vista got the reputation of being slow and buggy.  And Windows 8 comes out at a time when most systems shipping are still using the traditional mouse & keyboard or trackpad navigation system, and don't have touchscreens.  I've played around with a PC with a touchscreen, and a Surface Pro tab, and the experience is far better when you can touch the screen than when you're trying to get your mouse into just the right position to make the menu bar slide out.

All of my monitors are 24" or larger and are more than an arm's length away.

I sure hope Microsoft can get that through their epically thick skulls this time.


then maybe you should get over the mental block that it's a "touch os" and just use the thing with a mouse? cause here's a newsflash for ya, buddy: touch isnt going away, touch isnt a fad like 3dtv's were, and windows 8's gui is the new norm for microsoft. and i for one welcome our new charm-bar equipped overlords.
 
2014-01-11 08:49:03 PM  
I cant help but think I'll be sticking with 7 for a long time like I did with XP.
 
2014-01-11 08:54:51 PM  
I like Windows 8...
 
2014-01-11 08:56:33 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: jake_lex: I do think the comparison of Windows 8 to Vista is correct in this way: it comes at an awkward time in the computer industry, when a lot of the computers coming out aren't really suited to run it.  A lot of the computers shipping at the time Vista came out barely made its minimum requirements, and thus Vista got the reputation of being slow and buggy.  And Windows 8 comes out at a time when most systems shipping are still using the traditional mouse & keyboard or trackpad navigation system, and don't have touchscreens.  I've played around with a PC with a touchscreen, and a Surface Pro tab, and the experience is far better when you can touch the screen than when you're trying to get your mouse into just the right position to make the menu bar slide out.

All of my monitors are 24" or larger and are more than an arm's length away.

I sure hope Microsoft can get that through their epically thick skulls this time.


This.
Using touch screens for desktop systems is stupid.
 
2014-01-11 08:57:47 PM  

jake_lex: Marcus Aurelius: jake_lex: I do think the comparison of Windows 8 to Vista is correct in this way: it comes at an awkward time in the computer industry, when a lot of the computers coming out aren't really suited to run it.  A lot of the computers shipping at the time Vista came out barely made its minimum requirements, and thus Vista got the reputation of being slow and buggy.  And Windows 8 comes out at a time when most systems shipping are still using the traditional mouse & keyboard or trackpad navigation system, and don't have touchscreens.  I've played around with a PC with a touchscreen, and a Surface Pro tab, and the experience is far better when you can touch the screen than when you're trying to get your mouse into just the right position to make the menu bar slide out.

All of my monitors are 24" or larger and are more than an arm's length away.

I sure hope Microsoft can get that through their epically thick skulls this time.

Yeah, and I don't wanna go all Mac fanboy here, but this is something Apple's definitely been smarter about. Mac OS X and iOS are edging closer, but Apple is wise enough to not put the same interface on both my 27" iMac and my 10" iPad.


That "one experience for everything in your life" slogan is creepy.
 
2014-01-11 09:01:17 PM  
Microsoft does seem to have a habit of botching alternating OS releases. Look at them sequentially from the first corporate-oriented NT 3.51 up through Win8, and it's almost as if they designed them; one good OS, next one totally rejected by the public, repeat repeat...

They've been batting a little better on the server side of things. I don't see a lot of people using Server 2012, but in the scheme of corporate lifecycles, it's probably still early. A lot of companies were still migrating to XP five-six years after it was released.
 
2014-01-11 09:02:07 PM  

jake_lex: Yeah, and I don't wanna go all Mac fanboy here, but this is something Apple's definitely been smarter about. Mac OS X and iOS are edging closer, but Apple is wise enough to not put the same interface on both my 27" iMac and my 10" iPad.


And this is, from what I understand, the major issue with Windows 8.  It even goes further, when you start talking about the whole app thing.  Apps don't belong on a laptop or desktop, and from what I understand, the setup is just that.
 
2014-01-11 09:02:44 PM  

Livingroom: Marcus Aurelius: jake_lex: I do think the comparison of Windows 8 to Vista is correct in this way: it comes at an awkward time in the computer industry, when a lot of the computers coming out aren't really suited to run it.  A lot of the computers shipping at the time Vista came out barely made its minimum requirements, and thus Vista got the reputation of being slow and buggy.  And Windows 8 comes out at a time when most systems shipping are still using the traditional mouse & keyboard or trackpad navigation system, and don't have touchscreens.  I've played around with a PC with a touchscreen, and a Surface Pro tab, and the experience is far better when you can touch the screen than when you're trying to get your mouse into just the right position to make the menu bar slide out.

All of my monitors are 24" or larger and are more than an arm's length away.

I sure hope Microsoft can get that through their epically thick skulls this time.

then maybe you should get over the mental block that it's a "touch os" and just use the thing with a mouse? cause here's a newsflash for ya, buddy: touch isnt going away, touch isnt a fad like 3dtv's were, and windows 8's gui is the new norm for microsoft. and i for one welcome our new charm-bar equipped overlords.


hold your arm at shoulder level for 20 min, like you would to totally replace your mouse with it. go ahead. I can't even reach my monitors at work without leaning forward significantly.
 
2014-01-11 09:03:31 PM  

Mr.Poops: I like Windows 8...


s1.postimage.org
But seriously, I don't think it's that bad.

Of course, I held on to my XP machine for so long I ended up having to get a Windows 8 machine instead of waiting for 9.
 
2014-01-11 09:07:14 PM  

simplicimus: Microsoft can't do crap in 15 months, except change the GUI. Windows 8, for all the bad PR, is a solid OS.


I agree. Windows 8 plus Classic Shell is a great OS. I have it on my three PCs, including a netbook that originally had XP, and it's fast, rock solid stable, handles dual monitors very well and looks good.

MS should just buy Classic Shell and slap that on as standard and call it Windows 9. It'll be New Coke/Original Coke all over again, with sales even higher than before.
 
2014-01-11 09:07:43 PM  
First thing I thought of...

(Chronicles of Riddick reference)
 
2014-01-11 09:08:41 PM  
The year of Linux is now!
 
2014-01-11 09:08:50 PM  

simplicimus: fusillade762: simplicimus: Microsoft can't do crap in 15 months, except change the GUI. Windows 8, for all the bad PR, is a solid OS.

Except for the new version of Outlook not supporting POP3 accounts I haven't had any problems with it.

Haven't used Outlook in years, but it's strange they dropped POP3 support. Wonder why?


I assume they wanted to force everyone to use The Cloud. Me, they 'forced' be to change to Thunderbird. Works great.
 
2014-01-11 09:08:57 PM  

Livingroom: Marcus Aurelius: jake_lex: I do think the comparison of Windows 8 to Vista is correct in this way: it comes at an awkward time in the computer industry, when a lot of the computers coming out aren't really suited to run it.  A lot of the computers shipping at the time Vista came out barely made its minimum requirements, and thus Vista got the reputation of being slow and buggy.  And Windows 8 comes out at a time when most systems shipping are still using the traditional mouse & keyboard or trackpad navigation system, and don't have touchscreens.  I've played around with a PC with a touchscreen, and a Surface Pro tab, and the experience is far better when you can touch the screen than when you're trying to get your mouse into just the right position to make the menu bar slide out.

All of my monitors are 24" or larger and are more than an arm's length away.

I sure hope Microsoft can get that through their epically thick skulls this time.

then maybe you should get over the mental block that it's a "touch os" and just use the thing with a mouse? cause here's a newsflash for ya, buddy: touch isnt going away, touch isnt a fad like 3dtv's were, and windows 8's gui is the new norm for microsoft. and i for one welcome our new charm-bar equipped overlords.


Touch will live on in tablets. What Microsoft doesn't get is that one interface to rule them all doesn't work. You wind up with ARM tablets the drop down into a desktop UI that is touch un-friendly when you want to work with Office docs, and desktop PCs that have Charms pop up when you try to hit the X to close an app. It doesn't work, the market has spoken by the terrible marketshare quoted in the article.

What Microsoft (and you) don't get is that for me and most customers these days, we don't want the compromises involved in an all in one device. I want a small light tablet with a super high res screen for dicking around on the web, reading comics and books, and playing touch games, and I want a thin and light laptop with a great keyboard like a Thinkpad for work and other productivity.

The use cases for each are so different that it makes no sense to do both on one machine (not to mention I don't want to do personal stuff on my work laptop anyway). With prices where they are I can buy an iPad Air and a good Thinkpad and still not be at the price of a Surface Pro 2 with a keyboard cover, so unless I'm going to be a pussy and whine about the extra pound or two it weighs to carry both devices with me, there's just no advantage of combining devices. Windows 8 devices like the Surface Pro are computing El Caminos. They try to do everything, but just wind up being mediocre at both instead of being really good at one.
 
2014-01-11 09:10:06 PM  

Brontes: The year of Linux is now!


Not really... Maybe next year. Steam Machines could make some headway in that direction, otherwise... no.
 
2014-01-11 09:14:03 PM  

lousyskater: I cant help but think I'll be sticking with 7 for a long time like I did with XP.


Same here.

Old XP machine is now my secondary.

W7 has lotsa pretty eye candy like poor ol' Vista did, and takes some minor twaddling, like bringing up a proper QuickLaunch in the taskbar, among other things, but it's no big deal to adjust to.

I'll be holding onto 7 and XP until they both embricken themselves.
 
2014-01-11 09:16:56 PM  

Flint Ironstag: Classic Shell


I see that Classic Shell is free, and that is a good thing, but is it easy to uninstall if I don't like it?

I installed a trial from StarDock and didn't like it, but after uninstalling I had problems with my laptop not properly going to sleep when I closed it.
 
2014-01-11 09:17:00 PM  

Kittypie070: lousyskater: I cant help but think I'll be sticking with 7 for a long time like I did with XP.

Same here.

Old XP machine is now my secondary.

W7 has lotsa pretty eye candy like poor ol' Vista did, and takes some minor twaddling, like bringing up a proper QuickLaunch in the taskbar, among other things, but it's no big deal to adjust to.

I'll be holding onto 7 and XP until they both embricken themselves.


I had XP until last year. The deal MS did to upgrade to 8 for £25 was just too good to turn down. On the same hardware it runs vastly faster than XP. Loved it so much I paid to upgrade my other two XP machines as well. But put Classic Shell on all three of course. Start8 has more features but Classic Shell is free.
 
2014-01-11 09:17:28 PM  
Here's what I think Microsoft should do:

ARM based touch OS for both Surface Tabs and Windows Phone with an updated UI that walks back the flat just a bit to add some visual zing. Basically make it the Windows Phone version of Honeycomb, where they add in all the bits to the OS that are needed to make it a great for a tablet using Win RT code. This solves the tablet issue while also making large screen phones like the Lumia 1520 work better.

Remove the Start screen or make it an optional UI. Have a Win 7 style mode so you can work completely in the desktop without leaving it, and steak and tune The parts of Win 8 that make it a great desktop OS.

Salvage RT by making it an Chromebook competitor OS that runs on cheap laptops without a touchscreen. With the Skydrive and Office integrated it can hold off the Chromebook advance.
 
2014-01-11 09:18:55 PM  

Glitchwerks: Flint Ironstag: Classic Shell

I see that Classic Shell is free, and that is a good thing, but is it easy to uninstall if I don't like it?

I installed a trial from StarDock and didn't like it, but after uninstalling I had problems with my laptop not properly going to sleep when I closed it.


Can't comment since I have never uninstalled it. You can turn on and off some/many/all features of it to suit your needs. I keep the Charms bar and the corners but could turn them off if I chose.
 
2014-01-11 09:23:07 PM  

OK, now that the head Microsoft fanboy has written:

Windows 8 is tanking harder than Microsoft is comfortable discussing in public, and the latest release, Windows 8.1, which is a substantial and free upgrade with major improvements over the original release, is in use on less than 25 million PCs at the moment. That's a disaster

Are we finally done with the retarded Microsoft fanboys blaming users for not liking this piece of shiat?

People have been screaming at Microsoft to make the touch centric metro crap optional since the first beta. It looks like they are finally going to listen and call it Windows 9.
 
2014-01-11 09:27:07 PM  

fusillade762: Lsherm: simplicimus: fusillade762: simplicimus: Microsoft can't do crap in 15 months, except change the GUI. Windows 8, for all the bad PR, is a solid OS.

Except for the new version of Outlook not supporting POP3 accounts I haven't had any problems with it.

Haven't used Outlook in years, but it's strange they dropped POP3 support. Wonder why?

I have Outlook 2013 and it has POP3 support.  Is there a newer version?

Maybe it's just their "Mail App" which I may have mistaken for Outlook.

The Mail app, which comes with Windows 8.1 and Windows RT 8.1, doesn't support adding email accounts that use POP (Post Office Protocol).

In any event I'm quite happy with Thunderbird now.


Yup, and there-in lies the issue with Microsoft. Arbitrary removal or redesign of items that are in no way needing removal or redesign. This angers the bajeezus out of the end user, complaints fall on deaf ears, and users move on to other software.

IE->Mozilla/Firefox/Chrome, Outlook->Thunderbird, Office->Open Office, etc, etc, etc....Users don't normally like to switch these things, and it's awful hard to get them back once they leave.


Aside from removing every familiarity from the UI, I can remember the charting tools in Excel going to hell around '07.  My company used the charting tools heavily for reports, that were now impossible to view. Supposedly to be fixed in Office '10, weren't fixed until the update. In the 2-3 years it took them to restoring functionality to the point it was in '03, I had written my own charting tools to do what was needed. My company decided at that point there was no longer anything crucial it needed from the MS Office suite, and switched to open office.

They lost money because they took a functioning product, ripped the code apart, and made it non-functional. All they had to do to get an update out of my company was change the color scheme on office '03 and put an '07 sticker on it. Hell, they probably would have continued buying even with the UI tear down every release, as long as it was still a functional product.
 
2014-01-11 09:29:14 PM  
Microsoft to ship Windows 9 "Threshold" in April 2015, will likely recast Windows 8 series as the equivalent of Vista Me/2000.
 
2014-01-11 09:29:15 PM  
Serious question: what about Win8 actively sucks?

Don't get me wrong--I understand perfectly why it isn't doing well. The fact that I've only ever used it for 3 minutes in a Staples store is telling as to its failure to penetrate the market. But it seemed like it had a reasonable Win7-like mode, and for everyday use could do whatever you needed it to. Also, I hear it's marginally more secure than 7. If you were stuck with it, in what way would you be screwed, at least compared to having 7?
 
2014-01-11 09:29:30 PM  

BullBearMS: OK, now that the head Microsoft fanboy has written:
Windows 8 is tanking harder than Microsoft is comfortable discussing in public, and the latest release, Windows 8.1, which is a substantial and free upgrade with major improvements over the original release, is in use on less than 25 million PCs at the moment. That's a disaster
Are we finally done with the retarded Microsoft fanboys blaming users for not liking this piece of shiat?

People have been screaming at Microsoft to make the touch centric metro crap optional since the first beta. It looks like they are finally going to listen and call it Windows 9.


Look on the positive side. Windows 8 installed on a Macbook Air runs far faster them the Mac OS, according to the article you linked to a few months ago. So it can't be all bad. It's a rock solid OS with a mindbogglingly stupid interface. Luckily Classic Shell fixes that for free.
 
2014-01-11 09:29:36 PM  
Oh...there's one more thing about 7.

The authentication seems to be a mite...tempermental.

With XP, once you authenticated the OS and backed up certain small key files, that was it.

It was solidly authenticated and as long as you had a good firewall and AV suite of your choice installed, you could bang on it with a rockhammer all week/month/year/decade, and it wouldn't twitch so much as an ass hair.

With 7, I'm hearing oddball stories from purchasers of fully legitimate 7-equipped machines, and fully legitimate purchasers of the OS who have properly installed and authenticated the OS, and weeks or months later abruptly discover that either a Microsoft update or some funky arse system hiccup has coughed up the Black Screen From Hell and rendered the OS non-genuine.
 
2014-01-11 09:33:27 PM  

Yankees Team Gynecologist: Serious question: what about Win8 actively sucks?

Don't get me wrong--I understand perfectly why it isn't doing well. The fact that I've only ever used it for 3 minutes in a Staples store is telling as to its failure to penetrate the market. But it seemed like it had a reasonable Win7-like mode, and for everyday use could do whatever you needed it to. Also, I hear it's marginally more secure than 7. If you were stuck with it, in what way would you be screwed, at least compared to having 7?


For me it is just so many things being new/different/non-intuitive. Like I opened a Metro app and then could not work out how to close the damn thing!
And when I opened a PDF, for example, it defaults to a Metro app which is full screen only and cannot have, say, the calculator on top of it. So if you want to add up some numbers from a PDF you can't have the calculator on top of a document.
 
2014-01-11 09:36:12 PM  

Livingroom: then maybe you should get over the mental block that it's a "touch os" and just use the thing with a mouse? cause here's a newsflash for ya, buddy: touch isnt going away, touch isnt a fad like 3dtv's were, and windows 8's gui is the new norm for microsoft. and i for one welcome our new charm-bar equipped overlords.


Who bought the troll a TF account?
 
2014-01-11 09:41:56 PM  

Flint Ironstag: Yankees Team Gynecologist: Serious question: what about Win8 actively sucks?

Don't get me wrong--I understand perfectly why it isn't doing well. The fact that I've only ever used it for 3 minutes in a Staples store is telling as to its failure to penetrate the market. But it seemed like it had a reasonable Win7-like mode, and for everyday use could do whatever you needed it to. Also, I hear it's marginally more secure than 7. If you were stuck with it, in what way would you be screwed, at least compared to having 7?

For me it is just so many things being new/different/non-intuitive. Like I opened a Metro app and then could not work out how to close the damn thing!
And when I opened a PDF, for example, it defaults to a Metro app which is full screen only and cannot have, say, the calculator on top of it. So if you want to add up some numbers from a PDF you can't have the calculator on top of a document.


OK...I thought there was a fully windowed mode, but to be honest I didn't use it enough to experience idiosyncrasies like that. If I buy a new laptop soon I was hoping Win8 wasn't bad enough to have to actively avoid, but I'll test-drive it some more.
 
2014-01-11 09:42:23 PM  

Yankees Team Gynecologist: Serious question: what about Win8 actively sucks?

Don't get me wrong--I understand perfectly why it isn't doing well. The fact that I've only ever used it for 3 minutes in a Staples store is telling as to its failure to penetrate the market. But it seemed like it had a reasonable Win7-like mode, and for everyday use could do whatever you needed it to. Also, I hear it's marginally more secure than 7. If you were stuck with it, in what way would you be screwed, at least compared to having 7?


The big problem is that a lot of design decisions made to appeal to the tablet market make non-touchscreen use kind of suck. You are thrown out of the desktop UI completely when you go to open a new app that is not pinned to the task bar, which is jarring. Also, there are hot corners that allow mouse users to access things that are activated by swipes on a tablet, and that causes all sorts of annoyances, like mousing up to the last corner to of to the file menu, only to have the last used Metro app pop up if you get too close to the hot corner. If you are doing a common task in Photoshop, for example, you might find yourself accidentally clicking on the app switcher instead of the file menu and switching apps completely, which borks your workflow slightly. Also, most of the defaults are set to Metro apps, so you have to spend some time on the front end tweaking things so videos and PDFs will run in a window when you click them.

You basically spend a lot of time as a mouse and keyboard user fighting the touch UI when you do your work. If Sinfosky wasn't such a throbbing tool, they would have added a non-touch option in the settings that allows you to get all of the good stuff in Win 8 (better multimonitor, faster boot up, better Bitlocker, etc) without a lot of extra touch stuff and apps that you'll never use on a non-touch system.
 
2014-01-11 09:44:03 PM  

SuperT: Livingroom: Marcus Aurelius: jake_lex: I do think the comparison of Windows 8 to Vista is correct in this way: it comes at an awkward time in the computer industry, when a lot of the computers coming out aren't really suited to run it.  A lot of the computers shipping at the time Vista came out barely made its minimum requirements, and thus Vista got the reputation of being slow and buggy.  And Windows 8 comes out at a time when most systems shipping are still using the traditional mouse & keyboard or trackpad navigation system, and don't have touchscreens.  I've played around with a PC with a touchscreen, and a Surface Pro tab, and the experience is far better when you can touch the screen than when you're trying to get your mouse into just the right position to make the menu bar slide out.

All of my monitors are 24" or larger and are more than an arm's length away.

I sure hope Microsoft can get that through their epically thick skulls this time.

then maybe you should get over the mental block that it's a "touch os" and just use the thing with a mouse? cause here's a newsflash for ya, buddy: touch isnt going away, touch isnt a fad like 3dtv's were, and windows 8's gui is the new norm for microsoft. and i for one welcome our new charm-bar equipped overlords.

hold your arm at shoulder level for 20 min, like you would to totally replace your mouse with it. go ahead. I can't even reach my monitors at work without leaning forward significantly.


here's the rub: you dont need a touch screen to use win8. win8 runs just fine for me on all my desktops and is as easy to use with or without a touch screen or touchpad mouse. stop thinking of it as a touch OS and just use the mouse.
 
2014-01-11 09:45:25 PM  

Yankees Team Gynecologist: Serious question: what about Win8 actively sucks?

Don't get me wrong--I understand perfectly why it isn't doing well. The fact that I've only ever used it for 3 minutes in a Staples store is telling as to its failure to penetrate the market. But it seemed like it had a reasonable Win7-like mode, and for everyday use could do whatever you needed it to. Also, I hear it's marginally more secure than 7. If you were stuck with it, in what way would you be screwed, at least compared to having 7?


Mostly it's that certain touch-geared interactions cannot be turned off.  Yes, you can get MOST of it, but a lot of the "this really only works well on a touch screen" elements have no means by which you can disable them.  Even giving the Start Screen/no Start Button thing a pass because of Classic Shell and Start 8, you've still got to contend with other things triggered by hot zones and things that want you to click-hold-then-swipe to activate, which may make sense on a touchpad but are needless extra steps with a mouse and keyboard.

To simplify it, the reason why people don't like 8 is that it has shoehorned in Touchscreen compatibility at the DIRECT expense of ease-of-use for mouse+keyboard people, who are still the primary users of Windows OSes.  They literally made things harder for the lion's share of their users just to appeal (badly) to a much smaller demographic.
 
2014-01-11 09:51:08 PM  
Threshold? So they decided to name it after the very worst episode of Star Trek: Voyager?  So Windows 9 will turn me into a newt and let me have space babies who I then abandon because of Prime Directive stuff. No thank you.
 
2014-01-11 09:51:52 PM  

Yankees Team Gynecologist: Flint Ironstag: Yankees Team Gynecologist: Serious question: what about Win8 actively sucks?

Don't get me wrong--I understand perfectly why it isn't doing well. The fact that I've only ever used it for 3 minutes in a Staples store is telling as to its failure to penetrate the market. But it seemed like it had a reasonable Win7-like mode, and for everyday use could do whatever you needed it to. Also, I hear it's marginally more secure than 7. If you were stuck with it, in what way would you be screwed, at least compared to having 7?

For me it is just so many things being new/different/non-intuitive. Like I opened a Metro app and then could not work out how to close the damn thing!
And when I opened a PDF, for example, it defaults to a Metro app which is full screen only and cannot have, say, the calculator on top of it. So if you want to add up some numbers from a PDF you can't have the calculator on top of a document.

OK...I thought there was a fully windowed mode, but to be honest I didn't use it enough to experience idiosyncrasies like that. If I buy a new laptop soon I was hoping Win8 wasn't bad enough to have to actively avoid, but I'll test-drive it some more.


There are two "environments", Metro and Desktop. The Desktop on is very similar to XP/7 but just different enough to be a pain. No Start button or Menu. Lots of default programs are metro so they take you into that environment, like the mail app, for example. So you can't avoid Metro and it's touch interface entirely, closing a Metro app you have to mouse click the top enge of the screen and drag down, but there is nothing there to tell you that is what you should do. No max/minimise/close squares like Desktop programmes have. Or you move your mouse into the top left corner and wait for the recent apps bar to open and click on Desktop to go back there.
But again it isn't intuitive.
The analogy I used was as if Honda decided to standardise controls for cars and bikes by fitting all their cars with handlebars with twist throttle, hand operated brakes etc and throwing away the steering wheel, foot brake etc.
Now bike controls are great, for bikes.
But cars are not bikes.

Classic Shell gives you back the steering wheel, foot brake and gas etc and gives you the option of getting rid of the handlebars, twist throttle etc.
 
2014-01-11 09:55:33 PM  

LucklessWonder: Threshold? So they decided to name it after the very worst episode of Star Trek: Voyager?  So Windows 9 will turn me into a newt and let me have space babies who I then abandon because of Prime Directive stuff. No thank you.


I prefer to think of it as being named after an excellent CBS SciFi series that was cancelled after they played schedule football with it.  That way Windows 9 will allow me to team up with a crotchety-yet-endearing Brent Spiner and the ultimate ladies man version of Peter Dinklage to resist a transformative alien invasion.  At least, until it's shut down hastily in favor of an awful right-wing propaganda piece called Close to Home.
 
2014-01-11 10:00:19 PM  
the trouble with a touchscreen is using it obscures part of the screen. if you're just swiping a finger over the corner of a device that is one thing, but if you're waving your arm and hand about in front of the screen that's a lot more effort and more obstruction and is something else. using a mouse or trackpad doesn't break your view of the screen up and requires no effort. so, quite apart from the gripes about windows 8 it seems a step back. maybe they see the touchscreen as a necessary step towards kinnect-like gesture control, or maybe they think the non-tablet computer as we know it is dead on its feet, because otherwise i can't see how it is of much use to anyone who can use a mouse
 
2014-01-11 10:07:48 PM  
I put windows 8 on a recent desktop I built. At first it was hilariously confusing to operate for someone who has used windows for about 20 years. Once you slowly discover all of the available mouse gestures and keyboard shortcuts, it's not so bad, and in fact, may actually be faster to use than the old interface. The start screen is a total waste with a keyboard though--hit windows key, type first few letters of program name in, hit enter.

I think the right-click-on-bottom-left-of-screen menu combined with windows+typing obviates the need for the start menu entirely and I don't care if it comes back in Windows 9 or not. What I would like them to do is:

-make desktop versions of all of the built-in apps, and make them the default version on a mouse/keyboard equipped device. Metro settings on a 24" monitor is a waste
-reduce the number of clients and redundant paths to get to the IPv4 settings screen. It's an annoyingly long path no matter how you do it if you have to set static IPs for 20 machines.
-stop redoing the MS Office interface every couple of years, so that I don't have to waste a substantial amount of unlearning/learning to get good at it.
-decide that if mobile is the future, start making tools for easier multi-platform environments. Include an SSH client in Win9 and client/server in Win Server 2015, release powershell for linux, etc (hell will freeze over before this happens)
 
2014-01-11 10:08:05 PM  

fusillade762: simplicimus: Microsoft can't do crap in 15 months, except change the GUI. Windows 8, for all the bad PR, is a solid OS.

Except for the new version of Outlook not supporting POP3 accounts I haven't had any problems with it.


Weird, 'cos I haven't had a problem with Vista.

/Business 64bit

yukichigai: LucklessWonder: Threshold? So they decided to name it after the very worst episode of Star Trek: Voyager?  So Windows 9 will turn me into a newt and let me have space babies who I then abandon because of Prime Directive stuff. No thank you.

I prefer to think of it as being named after an excellent CBS SciFi series that was cancelled after they played schedule football with it.  That way Windows 9 will allow me to team up with a crotchety-yet-endearing Brent Spiner and the ultimate ladies man version of Peter Dinklage to resist a transformative alien invasion.  At least, until it's shut down hastily in favor of an awful right-wing propaganda piece called Close to Home.


Really? 'Cos I watched it to the end and I found in only marginally better than Surface (which I also watched to its end).
 
2014-01-11 10:09:07 PM  
Does 8.1 count as a good version or as the War Windows OS?
 
2014-01-11 10:14:18 PM  

Flint Ironstag: BullBearMS: OK, now that the head Microsoft fanboy has written:
Windows 8 is tanking harder than Microsoft is comfortable discussing in public, and the latest release, Windows 8.1, which is a substantial and free upgrade with major improvements over the original release, is in use on less than 25 million PCs at the moment. That's a disaster
Are we finally done with the retarded Microsoft fanboys blaming users for not liking this piece of shiat?

People have been screaming at Microsoft to make the touch centric metro crap optional since the first beta. It looks like they are finally going to listen and call it Windows 9.

Look on the positive side. Windows 8 installed on a Macbook Air runs far faster them the Mac OS, according to the article you linked to a few months ago. So it can't be all bad. It's a rock solid OS with a mindbogglingly stupid interface. Luckily Classic Shell fixes that for free.


That would be great if we weren't talking about a laptop running on battery power where running the batter dry as quickly as possible wasn't the object.

dl.dropboxusercontent.com
 
2014-01-11 10:18:43 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: Weird, 'cos I haven't had a problem with Vista.

/Business 64bit


I didn't realize how completely backward Vista was until I had to install it from scratch the other day.  There's a world of difference between in and 7, mainly with driver installation and updates.
 
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