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(The Week)   Hipsters and music snobs still trying to convince people that Vinyl LPs are making a comeback, perhaps even in pog form   ( theweek.com) divider line
    More: Unlikely, LPs, Vampire Weekend, Nielsen SoundScan, Rdio, record players, record sleeves, Daft Punk, software portability  
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1120 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 11 Jan 2014 at 7:20 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2014-01-11 07:44:05 AM  
3 votes:
Any Farker electrical engineer: how hard would it be to come up with a filter that degrades CD quality down to vinyl quality?  Seriously,  I am tired of old folks and effete ironists insisting that vinyl is better, when it should be easy to provide a "crappy vinyl sound" button next to the bass and treble.
2014-01-12 08:10:31 AM  
1 vote:

jj325: For those of us old enough to remember, there was a time when vinyl could sound better than CD's.  I jumped on the CD player bandwagon early on, and was massively disappointed when I started buying replacement copies of some of my favorite vinyl on the new format.  Even with a good player and stereo a lot of the original transfers coming out back then sounded horrible.  I remember distinctly my Led Zeppelin II cd sounding like I was listening with earmuffs on.  There's been a lot of advancements since then.


Yup - early on record companies madly scrambled to get stuff to CD and used 3rd generation masters, often vinyl masters with the RIAA curve in them that had to be re-eq'd. Awful stuff. And, the A/D and D/A technology was very primitive in the 80s.

Today you can buy a DAC that can do 24/192 (ridiculous overkill) for a couple hundred bucks, and they sound fan-farking-tabulous.

99% of the sound of any recording is the recording (mics & mic placement, studio, etc), mixing and mastering. Why people spend so much time arguing about the 1% that is the format baffles me, especially when I see pictures of so-called audiphile listening rooms with their floorstanding speakers crammed into the corners of a 10x10x8 listening room.
2014-01-11 11:09:27 PM  
1 vote:
OK, enough of the hipster hate. I know posting it on the 4th page of an old thread ain't going to do much, but I have to say it anyway. Leave the hipsters alone. Stop liking what I don't like, I know.

It's just lame. I can't imagine the level of a mind that sits around all day waiting for the chance to rag on people who could care less what you think about them. Go get a hobby. Jerk off or something.
2014-01-11 06:48:35 PM  
1 vote:

neongoats: Well, hate to point this out, but most digital formats decimate the dynamic range of the music. I suppose if your prime listening is using earbuds in your cube at work, knock yourself out with your mp3s bro.

CD's sound awesome, and vinyl sounds great, and you can really tell on a halfway decent stereo how much better they both sound than your typical mp3 or aac of the same music.

/feels like the guy getting blown back in his chair listening to kyuss on vinyl


CDs are a digital format. An MP3 at a sufficiently high bitrate played through decent hardware should be indistinguishable.
2014-01-11 05:20:35 PM  
1 vote:
mongbiohazard:

That's most likely because the CD's are actually reproducing the noisy old format they were mastered from more accurately than the vinyl is. It could also be because the masters have deteriorated in the time prior to being mastered to digital.

That's probably true. Even more likely is that the CD is made from a bin master rather than the original 1st tapes.

But it is plain and simple fact that CD's are capable of higher quality sound reproduction than vinyl. There's no debate, it's objective fact due to the capabilities of each medium.

Also... true. IF you're taking about the end medium itself. But a crappily mastered CD does not sound better than a well mastered LP of the same thing. Garbage in, garbage out.
2014-01-11 03:32:44 PM  
1 vote:
I've been buying Vinyl, but not for all my music. I just collect the vinyl form the 2-3 bands i really care about, and thats it.

Its more of a collectible than a music experience. And bands have noticed, with special releases on vinyl only, limited runs of only 200-400 copies, special copies on custom wax (colored, multi-color, clear, etc)
2014-01-11 02:38:17 PM  
1 vote:

Laobaojun: dennysgod: Laobaojun: Any Farker electrical engineer: how hard would it be to come up with a filter that degrades CD quality down to vinyl quality?  Seriously,  I am tired of old folks and effete ironists insisting that vinyl is better, when it should be easy to provide a "crappy vinyl sound" button next to the bass and treble.


You're missing the point. For those who love vinyl, it's that "crappy vinyl sound" that they like. That soft rhythmic whirl of the turntable with the occasional hiss and pop has a soothing quality, it makes the music feel alive. Listening to an album all the way through, one song at a time, is an adventure in sound, something that getting lost in today digital age where you don't even need buy an whole album anymore.

Similar with Autotune. Now any shmuck can make a perfectly produced album with the most optimum sound quality thanks to Autotune but it hard for it to have the soul as albums that are cut on tape. I guarantee if you went back in time and had Fleetwood Mac make Rumors with Autotune on a technical level the sound quality would be perfect but it would not sound as good as the original cut

That's exactly my point!  It shouldn't be hard to have a filter that puts all that fuzzy stuff onto the clean recordings.  Everyone happy, except purists who will never be happy.


There are literally thousands of programs out there that do this. One can add clicks and pops, turn on an "analog saturizer/saturator", "tape simulator", on and on.  By law, 20% of all rap records start with the "needle dropping on turntable" sound. One of my synths has it has a preset, I can press a key and Voila!

bunner: Like all things analogue, the signal chain dictates the quality.


True, but very few have the proper playback gear to distinguish that.

bunner: But I'll lay you  1,000.00 you never heard pristine vinyl of a well mixed record played back on a really brilliant system.


Most people haven't heard digital that way either, especially in a proper room. I don't really have a preference in the analog vs. digital war, besides vinyl needing more care in handling.
2014-01-11 01:27:55 PM  
1 vote:

superspeck: /sure would love to hijack this thread into a live album debate


g-ecx.images-amazon.com

That is exactly what that band sounded like on that day in that room.  Period.  And that's what fidelity means.
2014-01-11 01:20:17 PM  
1 vote:

frepnog: You say vinyl simply IS better?  You are ignorant and need to learn some things about media and how the music on it is produced without letting your opinion cloud fact.

Vinyl is having a small resurgence because people are stupid and the recording industry saw a way to make a buck.


Wow.  Okey dokey, mein Furher.  And I'm almost sorry that you have never heard pristine vinyl on a truly stellar system, but to be honest it really works better on recordings that have a low noise floor and aren't COMPRESSEDTOF*CK* But your endless need to bark a bunch of absolutes for SCIENCE™ doesn't inform me much, frankly.  I've never tried to listen to a record over an oscilloscope.  Seems sort of a low ROI.
2014-01-11 01:04:08 PM  
1 vote:
DANKOSKY: So, first of all, I'll ask you, Scott: vinyl or CD?

(SOUNDBITE OF LAUGHTER)

METCALFE: I enjoy both formats, but my preference is definitely CD.

DANKOSKY: Now, why CD?

METCALFE: Well, I think it has a lot to do with the fact that I'm primarily a recording engineer, as far as working with music. And it's - the closer thing to what I'm sending into the recorder is very much what I'm getting back out. With analog formats, although the sound can be very pleasing in certain styles, it's definitely imparting its own sound on it. And I think, to an extent, it's that sound that some people are really drawn to. But it's nice as an engineer to have the confidence of knowing that what I'm putting into - in most cases these days, the computer - is pretty close to what I'm going to get out.

DANKOSKY: Sean Olive, I have to ask you. I think I know your answer, but vinyl or CD?

OLIVE: Definitely CD.

DANKOSKY: Yeah? So tell me why.

OLIVE: Well, I mean, I grew up listening to records up until about '85, when the CD was already out. And I was involved in testing loudspeakers up at the National Research Council in Canada. And we were testing cartridges at that time, and it was quite apparent that the amount of distortion coming out of these devices was very high compared to CD. So what we found was that vinyl was a limiting factor in our ability to do accurate and reliable listening tests on loudspeakers, and we had to find a more reliable and more accurate medium.


Why Vinyl Sounds Better Than CD, Or Not
2014-01-11 12:36:35 PM  
1 vote:
frepnog: People who carry the opinion that vinyl is superior to cd however are unfortunately wrong in their opinion, and it can be scientifically proven that they are, in fact, wrong.

Some people can sleep in a silent room.  Others require white noise.

Its a similar phenomenon.


I have no idea why you're so virulently invested into this meaningless argument about apples and oranges, actually.  But I've been performing, recording and mixing live shows and studio recordings for three decades and you are seriously full of moose crap.  No offense.  Me?  I got no pony in this heat.  The artist can request that the two track be released on wax cylinder, if the check clears.  But I'll lay you  1,000.00 you never heard pristine vinyl of a well mixed record played back on a really brilliant system.  And, frankly, so what?  Seriously, man are the atheist threads closed?  You gotta troll this with your great pronouncements?  I guess it's a cheaper hobby than bar blowhard.  Carry on, Aristophanes.   :  )
2014-01-11 12:28:15 PM  
1 vote:

frepnog: mongbiohazard: There's charm in it for some people, which I can understand, but to claim that they perform better than newer cars is just categorically untrue. Enjoy the charm if you want, but you'd sound ridiculous claiming that the old car is better practically than new ones.

I agree with you. I tell people this all the time - you can make a cd sound EXACTLY like a vinyl record.  You can NOT however make a vinyl record sound like a cd.

that warmth people talk about is surface noise and it SUCKS.


I see you have tinnitus.
2014-01-11 12:27:52 PM  
1 vote:

frepnog: Record a vinyl record to uncompressed wav.  Convert that wav to redbook audio.  Burn


Why would I want to do that when I can just go to Sh*tMart and , buy a CD?  Like all things analogue, the signal chain dictates the quality.  CDs are much more forgiving because they just barf up whatever math is on them.  And very well, I might add.  I own several.  Very handy.
2014-01-11 12:13:32 PM  
1 vote:

GibbyTheMole: mongbiohazard:

"Warmth" and "Soul" are vague terms that people use so that they don't have to use more precise language which makes what they're trying to argue for sound dumb. "Noise" is the term they're trying so hard to avoid. Vinyl has more noise. Due to the placebo effect they have convinced themselves that vinyl sounds better, and so think so despite this extra noise and lower sound resolution.

I can't speak for all vinyl listeners, but I despise noise. Most of my records are pretty quiet, and some are even dead-quiet. I have several commercially made CDs of some classic jazz albums, as well as the vinyl. A lot of the time, the vinyl IS better. My old late 50s Columbia 6-eye LP of Brubeck's "Time Out" LP trumps the CD, because you can hear the room ambience that's missing somewhat from the CD. It's not always the case, but sometimes, it is.



That's most likely because the CD's are actually reproducing the noisy old format they were mastered from more accurately than the vinyl is. It could also be because the masters have deteriorated in the time prior to being mastered to digital.

But it is plain and simple fact that CD's are capable of higher quality sound reproduction than vinyl. There's no debate, it's objective fact due to the capabilities of each medium. If you prefer your music to be from a lower fidelity, noisier, medium then knock yourself out. The hiss, bump and tinnier sound of vinyl may appeal to you and remind you of the halcyon days of yesteryear. Maybe you just like it that way, and the clean and accurate reproduction of sound doesn't appeal to you as much. Cool beans. Enjoy it. Have fun, we all want you to be happy.

Don't try and argue that they sound better though... they simply do not. It's objective fact. Better is not the same as personally preferable.
2014-01-11 12:11:36 PM  
1 vote:

frepnog: I tell people this all the time - you can make a cd sound EXACTLY like a vinyl record


Well, no.  You can add algorithmic simulacra of noise artifacts of a worn out record on a crap system, but, frankly, I use algorithms every day to mix recordings and most of them are 2987569872984758 flavors of vanilla that do the same thing, poorly.  This is the only industry on earth where we are being sold an endless bunch of software that's guaranteed to "SOUND JUST LIKE" all the sh*t we were told we had to throw away.  And it doesn't.  It does what it does and not that well and most of what makes a good record is always going to be a good band playing a good song, and playing it well.  Thank God.  Rubbing some digital dirt on something doesn't make it sound "just like" anything other than something that has some dirt rubbed on it.  At the end of the day, it's a box of almost that has been put in sufficient order to sound palatable.  The whole thing is fake as hell, but then again, records and movies ARE fakery.  Tons of it.  Glorious, engaging fakery.  Always have been.  This is why record producers and film editors eat well.
2014-01-11 12:07:46 PM  
1 vote:

bunner: Mmmmm, no, that's not it but I think you got the first paragraph of a sketchy pysch 101 paper. : )


actually that IS it, 100 percent.  there was a study done awhile back, where a vinyl record was blind AB'd against an uncompressed CD made from a rip of that same vinyl.

no one could tell the difference.  all the shiat about waveforms, warmth, "ambiance" is just that - shiat, because the real word is "noise".

A compact disc is sonically superior to vinyl in every respect.  period.
2014-01-11 12:03:07 PM  
1 vote:
The out of hand dismissal of vinyl is largely propagated by people who not only have never heard vinyl on a really well made system in a room tailored for playback.  And that's understandable.  What is not understandable is the vitriol that accompanies their clapped out screeds of "OMG U R all teh oldzor hipsters!"  You think hipsters and old people are a pain in the ass?  Try wading through a 24 pic post on Imgur that is essentially Call of Duty screen shots explaining how wai kewl that particular game was.  Try listening to a two hour ping pong match between an Apple fanboi and a Winblows luser.  Then wait for the Nix / Nux wanker to chime in and watch the piss flow.  It's all a bunch of brand allegiance wankefest malarkey.  And it's monotonous.  The two playback mediums do have different characteristics and believe me, an .mp3 on some POS  earbuds over a 2.39 preamp in a phone really isn't "better".  Neither is an LP on some old tin box with a needle the size of a nail.  But it's about the music, you weenies.  Not the tech.  And I can see where this might sound heretical to anybody born after 1980, but, uh, so f*cking what?  Yanno?  Frankie says relax.
2014-01-11 11:32:06 AM  
1 vote:
Vinyl can sound fantastic... IF it's in good condition, clean deep in the grooves, and played on a properly set up and adjusted good quality turntable and cartridge, through a properly set up and good quality phono preamp, amp, and speakers. If you're not willing to go through the steps to achieve that quality, you can expect noisy, ratty, crappy sound from your records. That simple.

Likewise, digital can sound fantastic... IF it's mastered properly through a decent D/A conversion stage, not compressed to a brick wall, and the bitrate and bit depth is kept up. Otherwise, it will sound craptacular.

You can't expect to spin your thrift store dirty-ass records on your plastic Crosley retro fake-wood $69.95 player with the plastic tonearm and plastic platter and get to sonic nirvana. Likewise, you can't expect top quality digital audio from an iPod and a pair of earbuds.

Digital or analog, vinyl or CD makes no difference as to whether something sounds good or not. None whatsoever. It all boils down to garbage in, garbage out.
2014-01-11 10:08:09 AM  
1 vote:
I buy vinyl - new and old stuff. I also listen to digital and streaming music (iTunes, Spotify, Songza) in the car or on the metro or at work. I listen to vinyl records at home when I just want to sit with a glass of whiskey and actively listen to an entire album all the way through.

I admit it may be some kind of "fetish" to have the physical copy, but I think a lot of music fans (and "snobs") buy records for the same reason - to sit and enjoy the music, rather than just have it as background noise while doing something else.
2014-01-11 09:16:33 AM  
1 vote:
Still have one of these.

www.swapsellit.com
2014-01-11 08:23:19 AM  
1 vote:
Yep.  I'm one of the old farkers  that loves vinyl.  I budget $25 a month for the used record store down the street.  For Christmas a friend gifted me 12 $25 gift certificates for the store.  Awesome.  And yet, I love my iTunes playlist.  Beats the crap out of making those mixed tapes with your vinyl like us old people did way back when.
2014-01-11 07:54:27 AM  
1 vote:
To paraphrase LL Cool J, they aren't making a comeback, they've been here for years.  Same with cassettes.

People like to collect them.  It's a way to support the music you love and show it off.  You can be assured that anyone with a vinyl or cassette copy of an album also has a digital version as well.
2014-01-11 07:52:29 AM  
1 vote:

neongoats: I suppose if your prime listening is using earbuds in your cube at work, knock yourself out with your mp3s bro.


Truth. Your first upgrade must always be to actual speakers. Ones that didn't come with a PC.
And bluetooth from your iphone doesn't count either.

Only then need you bother with anything other than an mp3.
2014-01-11 07:49:51 AM  
1 vote:
Most new vinyl comes with a download code now, so you get the pristine digital version to listen to and a tangible physical object to look at, which is much prettier than a cd. Or bigger, at least.
2014-01-11 07:35:29 AM  
1 vote:
Two years ago, the piano player at my parents' church died. My dad and I went to his estate sale, where we learned that the piano player was a huge Beatles and Rolling Stones fan, and had damn near every release those bands ever made on vinly, including the 45s.

Dad took the 45s and I walked out with 8 albums, including Abbey Road, Rubber Soul, Revolver, Help, Let it Bleed, Sticky Fingers, and Through the Past Darkly (the octagon cover) for 75 bucks.

Sure, I had them on CD, but there is something pretty cool about being able to pull out the old vinyls and look at the cover, the liner notes, and everything else. Plus, the ones that had scratches on them, I could frame and put on the wall over the stereo.

Since then, I've picked up a few albums here and there, mostly classic rock like Floyd or the Ramones or Bob Marley or Johnny Cash. It's just a nice hobby and a cool looking conversation piece around my house.

Sorry if that clashes with the tekkies dream of one day owning a living room with just a chair, a laptop, and nothing else.Tangible media still has its charms.
 
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