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(The Week)   Hipsters and music snobs still trying to convince people that Vinyl LPs are making a comeback, perhaps even in pog form   (theweek.com ) divider line
    More: Unlikely, LPs, Vampire Weekend, Nielsen SoundScan, Rdio, record players, record sleeves, Daft Punk, software portability  
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1099 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 11 Jan 2014 at 7:20 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-11 12:44:18 PM  

StoPPeRmobile: I see you have tinnitus.


oh, surely.  too many loud shows in the 90's damaged my ears, but good.  never go to anything loud without earplugs these days.

jj325: I remember distinctly my Led Zeppelin II cd sounding like I was listening with earmuffs on.


early cd mastering sucked eggs.  they WERE just recording old master tapes to cd and letting it go.

bunner: Why would I want to do that when I can just go to Sh*tMart and , buy a CD?


Depends on the album really.  I have a lossless vinyl rip of Kiss Alive II that to this day beats the sound on the officially released cd.
 
2014-01-11 12:45:49 PM  

bunner: But I've been performing, recording and mixing live shows and studio recordings for three decades


then friend, seriously, YOU SHOULD farkING KNOW BETTER.
 
2014-01-11 12:46:50 PM  

frepnog: I have a lossless vinyl rip of Kiss Alive II that to this day beats the sound on the officially released cd.


Impossible!  It's an exact, lossless duplicate of a recording from a noisy, lossly medium through noisy electronic signal chains!  *snort*
 
2014-01-11 12:48:58 PM  

frepnog: bunner: But I've been performing, recording and mixing live shows and studio recordings for three decades

then friend, seriously, YOU SHOULD farkING KNOW BETTER.


Yes, I dare say anybody who doesn't absolutely agree with your opinions on the internet should be widely dismissed and pitied, and that's fine, but can you do it more quietly?
 
2014-01-11 12:57:23 PM  
stoli n coke:
Sorry if that clashes with the tekkies dream of one day owning a living room with just a chair, a laptop, and nothing else.Tangible media still has its charms.

Uh, laptop? Try voice-activated commands, chief.
 
2014-01-11 12:59:05 PM  

bunner: frepnog: bunner: But I've been performing, recording and mixing live shows and studio recordings for three decades

then friend, seriously, YOU SHOULD farkING KNOW BETTER.

Yes, I dare say anybody who doesn't absolutely agree with your opinions on the internet should be widely dismissed and pitied, and that's fine, but can you do it more quietly?


nah.

bunner: frepnog: I have a lossless vinyl rip of Kiss Alive II that to this day beats the sound on the officially released cd.

Impossible!  It's an exact, lossless duplicate of a recording from a noisy, lossly medium through noisy electronic signal chains!  *snort*


the officially released cd was a poor master and has never been improved.
 
2014-01-11 01:03:28 PM  

frepnog: the officially released cd was a poor master and has never been improved.


The officially released master was of a recording that was a complete fabrication made up of canned applause tracks, some like stuff tracked to a tape machine and studio overdubs.  And not only is it one of the worst sounding records in rock history, it doesn't even exist.  And I would have happily put my hand to cobbling together this utter con job if the phone rang and the check cleared.    :  )  Saying stuff like "lossless tip that exceeds the CD relase" about Kiss Alive I or II is a bit like saying "I have a argon sealed framed piece of preschool refrigerator art."
 
2014-01-11 01:04:08 PM  
DANKOSKY: So, first of all, I'll ask you, Scott: vinyl or CD?

(SOUNDBITE OF LAUGHTER)

METCALFE: I enjoy both formats, but my preference is definitely CD.

DANKOSKY: Now, why CD?

METCALFE: Well, I think it has a lot to do with the fact that I'm primarily a recording engineer, as far as working with music. And it's - the closer thing to what I'm sending into the recorder is very much what I'm getting back out. With analog formats, although the sound can be very pleasing in certain styles, it's definitely imparting its own sound on it. And I think, to an extent, it's that sound that some people are really drawn to. But it's nice as an engineer to have the confidence of knowing that what I'm putting into - in most cases these days, the computer - is pretty close to what I'm going to get out.

DANKOSKY: Sean Olive, I have to ask you. I think I know your answer, but vinyl or CD?

OLIVE: Definitely CD.

DANKOSKY: Yeah? So tell me why.

OLIVE: Well, I mean, I grew up listening to records up until about '85, when the CD was already out. And I was involved in testing loudspeakers up at the National Research Council in Canada. And we were testing cartridges at that time, and it was quite apparent that the amount of distortion coming out of these devices was very high compared to CD. So what we found was that vinyl was a limiting factor in our ability to do accurate and reliable listening tests on loudspeakers, and we had to find a more reliable and more accurate medium.


Why Vinyl Sounds Better Than CD, Or Not
 
2014-01-11 01:04:45 PM  

frepnog: bunner:  

Yes, I dare say anybody who doesn't absolutely agree with your opinions on the internet should be widely dismissed and pitied, and that's fine, but can you do it more quietly?

nah.


Ah.  My internet volume knob.  Let me show it to you.
 
2014-01-11 01:05:19 PM  
Man, vinyl versus digital debates have become serious business on Fark.
 
2014-01-11 01:09:00 PM  

Glitchwerks: Man, vinyl versus digital debates have become serious business on Fark.


Actually, you can plug in pretty much any two overhyped, this-is-just-marketing-horsesh*t false dichotomies and get the same rabid foamers chiming in to straighten out the world at large.  It's the nature of anonymous discourse.  Which is largely a euphemism.
 
2014-01-11 01:09:10 PM  

bunner: frepnog: the officially released cd was a poor master and has never been improved.

The officially released master was of a recording that was a complete fabrication made up of canned applause tracks, some like stuff tracked to a tape machine and studio overdubs.  And not only is it one of the worst sounding records in rock history, it doesn't even exist.  And I would have happily put my hand to cobbling together this utter con job if the phone rang and the check cleared.    :  )  Saying stuff like "lossless tip that exceeds the CD relase" about Kiss Alive I or II is a bit like saying "I have a argon sealed framed piece of preschool refrigerator art."


duh.  everyone knows that the live record was faked.  Doesn't keep it from being one of my favorite childhood albums, and doesn't keep the official cd from sounding like crap.  it is one of those early cases where the vinyl in fact does sound better than the cd - not because of limitations of cd, but because it was never properly re-mastered for the format.

/yeah, yeah, Kiss suck.  in 1977 they might as well been God, Jesus and the two angels, for all my 6 year old brain cared.
 
2014-01-11 01:10:52 PM  

Glitchwerks: Man, vinyl versus digital debates have become serious business on Fark.




Not really. The vinyl fans just get angry when people point out that the emperor has no clothes.
 
2014-01-11 01:12:44 PM  

Gunny Highway: John Buck 41: wozzeck: /The first new car my dad ever had was a brown Buick Riviera with 8-track...unfortunately the only tape he had was one that came with the car, disco hits including Disco Duck and Kung Fu fighting.

I had no idea Buick used this marketing technique.

Cheers, friend!  Much appreciated.


GibbyTheMole: John Buck 41: wozzeck: /The first new car my dad ever had was a brown Buick Riviera with 8-track...unfortunately the only tape he had was one that came with the car, disco hits including Disco Duck and Kung Fu fighting.

I had no idea Buick used this marketing technique.

No one can resist the call of the Disco Duck.  No wonder he bought the Buick!  :-P

BTW... That's much for the TF. Mighty generous of you, good sir. If you're ever gonna be in southern Iowa, let me know & I'll buy you a beer or 3... Seriously!    :-)


You're both most welcome. The beer offer is reciprocal if either of you are in Eastern/Midcoast ME.
 
2014-01-11 01:13:19 PM  

frepnog: duh.  everyone knows that the live record was faked.  Doesn't keep it from being one of my favorite childhood albums


Precisely.  Welcome to the world of art as subjective experience.  I saw their first tour, btw.  The New York Dolls opened.  It was a lesson in asplosions and funny clothes over substance that stuck with me and, apparently, a whole lot of bands who knocked four chords together and could afford an actinic powder flash pot and a couple of dresses.  Interesting times.
 
2014-01-11 01:14:17 PM  

bunner: Glitchwerks: Man, vinyl versus digital debates have become serious business on Fark.

Actually, you can plug in pretty much any two overhyped, this-is-just-marketing-horsesh*t false dichotomies and get the same rabid foamers chiming in to straighten out the world at large.  It's the nature of anonymous discourse.  Which is largely a euphemism.


it isn't that.  it is that there are people that claim vinyl is superior at music reproduction, which is patently and scinetifically provably false.

You say you LIKE vinyl better?  Good deal.  I can understand you and we can continue.

You say vinyl simply IS better?  You are ignorant and need to learn some things about media and how the music on it is produced without letting your opinion cloud fact.

Vinyl is having a small resurgence because people are stupid and the recording industry saw a way to make a buck.
 
2014-01-11 01:15:44 PM  

bunner: Welcome to the world of art as subjective experience.


except that the differences between vinyl and cd are anything but subjective.
 
2014-01-11 01:20:17 PM  

frepnog: You say vinyl simply IS better?  You are ignorant and need to learn some things about media and how the music on it is produced without letting your opinion cloud fact.

Vinyl is having a small resurgence because people are stupid and the recording industry saw a way to make a buck.


Wow.  Okey dokey, mein Furher.  And I'm almost sorry that you have never heard pristine vinyl on a truly stellar system, but to be honest it really works better on recordings that have a low noise floor and aren't COMPRESSEDTOF*CK* But your endless need to bark a bunch of absolutes for SCIENCE™ doesn't inform me much, frankly.  I've never tried to listen to a record over an oscilloscope.  Seems sort of a low ROI.
 
2014-01-11 01:20:30 PM  

frepnog: bunner: frepnog: the officially released cd was a poor master and has never been improved.

The officially released master was of a recording that was a complete fabrication made up of canned applause tracks, some like stuff tracked to a tape machine and studio overdubs.  And not only is it one of the worst sounding records in rock history, it doesn't even exist.  And I would have happily put my hand to cobbling together this utter con job if the phone rang and the check cleared.    :  )  Saying stuff like "lossless tip that exceeds the CD relase" about Kiss Alive I or II is a bit like saying "I have a argon sealed framed piece of preschool refrigerator art."

duh.  everyone knows that the live record was faked.  Doesn't keep it from being one of my favorite childhood albums, and doesn't keep the official cd from sounding like crap.  it is one of those early cases where the vinyl in fact does sound better than the cd - not because of limitations of cd, but because it was never properly re-mastered for the format.

/yeah, yeah, Kiss suck.  in 1977 they might as well been God, Jesus and the two angels, for all my 6 year old brain cared.


Alive II might have been faked, but everything I've read said Alive I probably had about a days worth of studio punch ins to fix obvious flubs.  Casablanca was broke thanks to their failed Johnny Carson Tonight Show records. They simply didn't have the $ at the time to do much of anything else.

Thin Lizzy's "Live and Dangerous" is another story.

/sure would love to hijack this thread into a live album debate
 
2014-01-11 01:25:40 PM  
And the "industry" is sucking the torrents dick, atm, because for all of the self professed music lovers and those appreciative of the Obviously Inherent Superisority™ of the Cee of Dee, ain't nobody paying for it.  Which gets you a lot of hobbyists cranking sh*t out of CD baby after their shift at UPS.  If you really think the Ebil Recording Industry is making dough off of some vinyl marketing shuck, I'd skip the screeds about being delusional.  The only label on earth that isn't pissing red ink, atm, is Disney.  Enjoy your lossless Hillary Duff.
 
2014-01-11 01:27:55 PM  

superspeck: /sure would love to hijack this thread into a live album debate


g-ecx.images-amazon.com

That is exactly what that band sounded like on that day in that room.  Period.  And that's what fidelity means.
 
2014-01-11 01:34:43 PM  
Any media that requires physical contact of two things to reproduce the product is going to degrade in quality every time you use it.

God bless the man who created the CD.
 
2014-01-11 01:37:00 PM  

Disgruntled Goat: Any media that requires physical contact of two things to reproduce the product is going to degrade in quality every time you use it.


no no, that's "warmth".
 
2014-01-11 01:39:38 PM  

bunner: And I'm almost sorry that you have never heard pristine vinyl on a truly stellar system


I have.  Used to own a pretty expensive rack system with an amazingly good turntable and have friends with expensive stuff.  I never said "records sound like shiat".  Good equipment can make a shiatty 45 with scratches on it sound good.
 
2014-01-11 01:40:39 PM  
Anybody selling analogue "warmth" has kool aid on their chin.

Disgruntled Goat: Any media that requires physical contact of two things to reproduce the product is going to degrade in quality every time you use it.

God bless the man who created the CD.


And the condom.  Pretty much the same experience.   :  ) I suppose there's something to be said for life in a clean room, but life is messy and sh*t breaks and wears out.  Thank God.

This mostly sounds like a bunch of kids smoking behind the garage and debating love making techniques from what they've gleaned from their father's porn stash.  YMMV.  Carry on, soldiers.
 
2014-01-11 01:42:11 PM  

frepnog: Good equipment can make a shiatty 45 with scratches on it sound good.


It can?  Can you point me to a retailer?  Because every 45 I've ever heard sounded like it was etched into an old piece of dashboard plastic with a matte knife.
 
2014-01-11 01:48:13 PM  

stoli n coke: sarajlewis83: My husband would love it if I would get rid of my music collection in "physical form". Can't/won't do it. There is something about owning the physical product that appeals to me. Also why I continue to buy real books rather than a Kindle, I guess.

/748 CDs and counting....
//.... not including any burned CDs
///at least it's not 748 LPs space-wise


I don't get the reasoning behind KIndles. I can't see having to make sure an electrical device is fully charged every time I want to read for a few hours, when I could just grab a book, find a light source, sit down, and read.

As for the CDs, a good idea is to go through them, figure out which ones you only bought for 1 or 2 songs, upload them into iTunes, and take them to a music shop and sell them. Then, keep the ones that have lots of songs you still listen to.

Did that when I first got iTunes. Because of that, my first iPod only cost me about 35 bucks out of pocket, and i freed up an entire bookcase.


Try reading a copy of Infinite Jest or Anathem on a plane, and you'll soon see the appeal of a Kindle. Plus, my Paperwhite looks almost like paper when reading it, is backlit for easy reading in the dark, and only needs to be charged about once a month. It's a really nice device for reading.
 
2014-01-11 01:49:02 PM  

bunner: Because every 45 I've ever heard sounded like it was etched into an old piece of dashboard plastic with a matte knife.


oh sweet jesus.  I used to have quite a collection of 45's.  They can sound quite good. this was a favorite, for some reason.

pretty sure I technically lost my virginity to that 45.
 
2014-01-11 01:49:35 PM  
i21.photobucket.com

For all of you.
 
2014-01-11 01:49:42 PM  

frepnog: bunner: Because every 45 I've ever heard sounded like it was etched into an old piece of dashboard plastic with a matte knife.

oh sweet jesus.  I used to have quite a collection of 45's.  They can sound quite good. this was a favorite, for some reason.

pretty sure I technically lost my virginity to that 45.


www.45picturesleeves.com

try again.  heheh.
 
2014-01-11 01:51:38 PM  

frepnog: bunner: Because every 45 I've ever heard sounded like it was etched into an old piece of dashboard plastic with a matte knife.

oh sweet jesus.  I used to have quite a collection of 45's.  They can sound quite good. this was a favorite, for some reason.

pretty sure I technically lost my virginity to that 45.


Um, which 45?  I won't even go into the fact that most of them are only 3:40 long  ;  )
 
2014-01-11 01:52:31 PM  
Ah.  Pretty girl and a good band.
 
2014-01-11 01:56:39 PM  

bunner: Ah.  Pretty girl and a good band.


I was 13 when that came out.  I saw it in the shop and I am pretty sure that was one of if not the first time I realized I was straight.

I raped that record every night for weeks.
 
2014-01-11 01:59:07 PM  

Disgruntled Goat: Any media that requires physical contact of two things to reproduce the product is going to degrade in quality every time you use it.

God bless the man who created the CD.




That was why I would tape my records, and listen to that instead of the record. Teac V-770 3 head, Dolby B,C & HX Pro. With a good CRO2 or metal blank, it was very difficult to tell the difference between a recorded CD and the original (crank up the volume between songs, and you could hear the tape imparted hiss, but you had to get the volume quite high).
 
2014-01-11 02:02:20 PM  

frepnog: bunner: Ah.  Pretty girl and a good band.

I was 13 when that came out.  I saw it in the shop and I am pretty sure that was one of if not the first time I realized I was straight.

I raped that record every night for weeks.


I was 29 and probably bent over a console.  The fact that music still benchmarks peoples lives is why I can afford to live indoors.  Thanks for listening.
 
2014-01-11 02:06:21 PM  
Speaking of which, I must make the three flights of stairs commute to my humble mix facility and throw some stuff up on the anvil off of my client's new "reel" and turn in some two track mixes by tonight.  Keep enjoying the wonder that music adds to our lives and try and remember that all the people who make it by playing it and hammering it into a product need rent money, too.  Keep on rocking in the free world.  Lates.
 
2014-01-11 02:07:55 PM  

bunner: hammering it into a product need rent money, too.


agreed.
 
2014-01-11 02:22:27 PM  

Laobaojun: Any Farker electrical engineer: how hard would it be to come up with a filter that degrades CD quality down to vinyl quality?  Seriously,  I am tired of old folks and effete ironists insisting that vinyl is better, when it should be easy to provide a "crappy vinyl sound" button next to the bass and treble.


They have software VSTs that will do that for you now.
 
2014-01-11 02:29:08 PM  

Rent Party: Laobaojun: Any Farker electrical engineer: how hard would it be to come up with a filter that degrades CD quality down to vinyl quality?  Seriously,  I am tired of old folks and effete ironists insisting that vinyl is better, when it should be easy to provide a "crappy vinyl sound" button next to the bass and treble.

They have software VSTs that will do that for you now.


I just use sand
 
2014-01-11 02:34:38 PM  

bunner: You want to find the guy in the room with no hands on experience with both methods being debated in any given discussion?  Look for the guy slinging absolutes with a dash of sneering superiority.  Anybody selling absolutes should be given a wide berth, IMHO.


I have experience with both.  I mix every day.  I even love my records, and have a really nice turntable.

Digital is vastly superior to analog if the quality measure is fidelity.

I like vinyl because it forces you to sit and listen.   I have thousands of songs on my nano, and I usually listen to that when I'm doing something else.  I can never remember what was played.   Records are a listening event.  It requires your attention.

But pretending it is acoustically superior to digital is just delusional.
 
2014-01-11 02:38:17 PM  

Laobaojun: dennysgod: Laobaojun: Any Farker electrical engineer: how hard would it be to come up with a filter that degrades CD quality down to vinyl quality?  Seriously,  I am tired of old folks and effete ironists insisting that vinyl is better, when it should be easy to provide a "crappy vinyl sound" button next to the bass and treble.


You're missing the point. For those who love vinyl, it's that "crappy vinyl sound" that they like. That soft rhythmic whirl of the turntable with the occasional hiss and pop has a soothing quality, it makes the music feel alive. Listening to an album all the way through, one song at a time, is an adventure in sound, something that getting lost in today digital age where you don't even need buy an whole album anymore.

Similar with Autotune. Now any shmuck can make a perfectly produced album with the most optimum sound quality thanks to Autotune but it hard for it to have the soul as albums that are cut on tape. I guarantee if you went back in time and had Fleetwood Mac make Rumors with Autotune on a technical level the sound quality would be perfect but it would not sound as good as the original cut

That's exactly my point!  It shouldn't be hard to have a filter that puts all that fuzzy stuff onto the clean recordings.  Everyone happy, except purists who will never be happy.


There are literally thousands of programs out there that do this. One can add clicks and pops, turn on an "analog saturizer/saturator", "tape simulator", on and on.  By law, 20% of all rap records start with the "needle dropping on turntable" sound. One of my synths has it has a preset, I can press a key and Voila!

bunner: Like all things analogue, the signal chain dictates the quality.


True, but very few have the proper playback gear to distinguish that.

bunner: But I'll lay you  1,000.00 you never heard pristine vinyl of a well mixed record played back on a really brilliant system.


Most people haven't heard digital that way either, especially in a proper room. I don't really have a preference in the analog vs. digital war, besides vinyl needing more care in handling.
 
2014-01-11 02:40:39 PM  

Rent Party: I like vinyl because it forces you to sit and listen.


oh now THIS is some hipster bullshiat.

I grew up with records.  I knew where to put the needle in the groove to play the song I wanted and swapped records quite often, usually after one or two songs.  call it an analog playlist, if you will.  rarely did I just put on a record and let it play, unless it was a new release.  and it was much quicker to change tracks usually than even pushing "next" on a cd player.
 
2014-01-11 02:48:54 PM  
Why I like vinyl:

1. Thrill of the hunt

2. Collecting

3. Listening

4. Caring for your collection

A good analogy for me is that vinyl is like a collector car. It's not what I use all the time, but when I do there's just something magical about it
 
2014-01-11 02:51:53 PM  

Mr.Poops: Why I like vinyl:

1. Thrill of the hunt

2. Collecting

3. Listening

4. Caring for your collection

A good analogy for me is that vinyl is like a collector car. It's not what I use all the time, but when I do there's just something magical about it


Sounds exhausting.
 
2014-01-11 02:51:58 PM  

LewDux: Rent Party: Laobaojun: Any Farker electrical engineer: how hard would it be to come up with a filter that degrades CD quality down to vinyl quality?  Seriously,  I am tired of old folks and effete ironists insisting that vinyl is better, when it should be easy to provide a "crappy vinyl sound" button next to the bass and treble.

They have software VSTs that will do that for you now.

I just use sand


I guess there were no crawdad.
 
2014-01-11 03:08:02 PM  
This:

www.dankury.com
 
2014-01-11 03:21:13 PM  

frepnog: Mr.Poops: Why I like vinyl:

1. Thrill of the hunt

2. Collecting

3. Listening

4. Caring for your collection

A good analogy for me is that vinyl is like a collector car. It's not what I use all the time, but when I do there's just something magical about it

Sounds exhausting.


He's got a high motor.
 
2014-01-11 03:23:31 PM  

stoli n coke: I don't get the reasoning behind KIndles. I can't see having to make sure an electrical device is fully charged every time I want to read for a few hours, when I could just grab a book, find a light source, sit down, and read.


You as long as you're not using a reading light that runs off the battery, and turn your wifi off, a fully charged battery will last almost three weeks of daily use.  And charging takes maybe three hours.  For my money, it's the way to go, especially since I can sync the Kindle across multiple platforms.  I may not have a book or Kindle with me, but if I have a few extra minutes stuck on the train, I can pull out my Samsung S4 and it picks up right where I left off, no matter what device I was on, and I can get a few minutes in when I didn't expect it.

That, and I have the satisfaction of not killing any extra trees.
 
2014-01-11 03:32:44 PM  
I've been buying Vinyl, but not for all my music. I just collect the vinyl form the 2-3 bands i really care about, and thats it.

Its more of a collectible than a music experience. And bands have noticed, with special releases on vinyl only, limited runs of only 200-400 copies, special copies on custom wax (colored, multi-color, clear, etc)
 
2014-01-11 03:42:15 PM  

frepnog: Rent Party: I like vinyl because it forces you to sit and listen.

oh now THIS is some hipster bullshiat.

I grew up with records.  I knew where to put the needle in the groove to play the song I wanted and swapped records quite often, usually after one or two songs.  call it an analog playlist, if you will.  rarely did I just put on a record and let it play, unless it was a new release.  and it was much quicker to change tracks usually than even pushing "next" on a cd player.


So you just put the needle on and then walked off?

No, you sat and listened.  That was the whole point of dropping the needle on that spot.  You had to do work in order to hear the music.

Unless, you know, you had one of those turntables with the "shuffle" feature.
 
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