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(The Week)   Hipsters and music snobs still trying to convince people that Vinyl LPs are making a comeback, perhaps even in pog form   (theweek.com ) divider line
    More: Unlikely, LPs, Vampire Weekend, Nielsen SoundScan, Rdio, record players, record sleeves, Daft Punk, software portability  
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1099 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 11 Jan 2014 at 7:20 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-11 04:01:04 AM  
Oddly, all the "Oh em gee U R teh h1pst3r l0lz!" pigeonholing aside, they sort of are.  Most of the "Indie" artists and bands I mix have their merch tables stocked with vinyl releases next to the CDs and T-Shirts.  Start refurbing those thrift shop turntables, y'all.
 
2014-01-11 07:35:29 AM  
Two years ago, the piano player at my parents' church died. My dad and I went to his estate sale, where we learned that the piano player was a huge Beatles and Rolling Stones fan, and had damn near every release those bands ever made on vinly, including the 45s.

Dad took the 45s and I walked out with 8 albums, including Abbey Road, Rubber Soul, Revolver, Help, Let it Bleed, Sticky Fingers, and Through the Past Darkly (the octagon cover) for 75 bucks.

Sure, I had them on CD, but there is something pretty cool about being able to pull out the old vinyls and look at the cover, the liner notes, and everything else. Plus, the ones that had scratches on them, I could frame and put on the wall over the stereo.

Since then, I've picked up a few albums here and there, mostly classic rock like Floyd or the Ramones or Bob Marley or Johnny Cash. It's just a nice hobby and a cool looking conversation piece around my house.

Sorry if that clashes with the tekkies dream of one day owning a living room with just a chair, a laptop, and nothing else.Tangible media still has its charms.
 
2014-01-11 07:44:05 AM  
Any Farker electrical engineer: how hard would it be to come up with a filter that degrades CD quality down to vinyl quality?  Seriously,  I am tired of old folks and effete ironists insisting that vinyl is better, when it should be easy to provide a "crappy vinyl sound" button next to the bass and treble.
 
2014-01-11 07:47:03 AM  
Well, hate to point this out, but most digital formats decimate the dynamic range of the music. I suppose if your prime listening is using earbuds in your cube at work, knock yourself out with your mp3s bro.

CD's sound awesome, and vinyl sounds great, and you can really tell on a halfway decent stereo how much better they both sound than your typical mp3 or aac of the same music.

/feels like the guy getting blown back in his chair listening to kyuss on vinyl
 
2014-01-11 07:49:40 AM  
guyism.com
 
2014-01-11 07:49:51 AM  
Most new vinyl comes with a download code now, so you get the pristine digital version to listen to and a tangible physical object to look at, which is much prettier than a cd. Or bigger, at least.
 
2014-01-11 07:52:29 AM  

neongoats: I suppose if your prime listening is using earbuds in your cube at work, knock yourself out with your mp3s bro.


Truth. Your first upgrade must always be to actual speakers. Ones that didn't come with a PC.
And bluetooth from your iphone doesn't count either.

Only then need you bother with anything other than an mp3.
 
2014-01-11 07:54:27 AM  
To paraphrase LL Cool J, they aren't making a comeback, they've been here for years.  Same with cassettes.

People like to collect them.  It's a way to support the music you love and show it off.  You can be assured that anyone with a vinyl or cassette copy of an album also has a digital version as well.
 
2014-01-11 07:55:06 AM  
The 6.1 million U.S. LP sales still represent only about  , versus 57 percent for CDs and 41 percent for digital albums.


This is a figure that seems to be conspicuously absent in any article proclaiming the rebirth of vinyl. I mean, it's a comeback compared to being mostly dead, but I'm confused as to why people act like vinyl is dominating music sales.
 
2014-01-11 07:56:12 AM  

Glitchwerks: To paraphrase LL Cool J, they aren't making a comeback, they've been here for years.  Same with cassettes.

People like to collect them.  It's a way to support the music you love and show it off.  You can be assured that anyone with a vinyl or cassette copy of an album also has a digital version as well.



Yep. Vinyl collecting is the music fan equivalent of collecting baseball cards.
 
2014-01-11 07:57:10 AM  

FeedTheCollapse: The 6.1 million U.S. LP sales still represent only about  , versus 57 percent for CDs and 41 percent for digital albums.


This is a figure that seems to be conspicuously absent in any article proclaiming the rebirth of vinyl. I mean, it's a comeback compared to being mostly dead, but I'm confused as to why people act like vinyl is dominating music sales.


The point they are making is that it is the only sector of music sales that is growing in comparison to the rest.
 
2014-01-11 08:01:19 AM  
Horse drawn carriages are making a comeback too.
Also outhouses, dysentery and cave paintings!
 
2014-01-11 08:16:02 AM  
My husband would love it if I would get rid of my music collection in "physical form". Can't/won't do it. There is something about owning the physical product that appeals to me. Also why I continue to buy real books rather than a Kindle, I guess.

/748 CDs and counting....
//.... not including any burned CDs
///at least it's not 748 LPs space-wise
 
2014-01-11 08:19:10 AM  
Same in every hobbyist field. In photography, you still have a lot of holdouts using old school film, even if the couple of small advantages it has over digital doesn't come close to justifying the trouble and expense. Some people just like the smell of darkroom chemicals and the ritual of swapping out roles of film.

I'm not one of them, and I'll keep my 5D, thanks. But everyone had to have a passion I guess.
 
2014-01-11 08:21:08 AM  
I was listening to my Sgt. Pepper's record only the other day. Aside from the occasional pop and a bit of hiss, the only other problem was the needle skipping across the record every time I went around a corner.
 
2014-01-11 08:21:51 AM  
I have many vinyl albums from the 70's.  Strangely, manly of them have a greenish residue in the inside fold.
 
2014-01-11 08:23:19 AM  
Yep.  I'm one of the old farkers  that loves vinyl.  I budget $25 a month for the used record store down the street.  For Christmas a friend gifted me 12 $25 gift certificates for the store.  Awesome.  And yet, I love my iTunes playlist.  Beats the crap out of making those mixed tapes with your vinyl like us old people did way back when.
 
2014-01-11 08:23:52 AM  
If you're really into music, you probably already have a turntable because there is a lot of out-of-print music that never made it to a digital format.

I still buy vinyl here and there. It's not entirely logical. Sometimes I just want to go through the ritual, or browse liner notes/art that I can actually read. Sometimes the vinyl itself has artwork pressed into it (when the music spans three sides, for instance). And colored vinyl just looks really neat, what can I say.

Warmth? Not usually. In fact a lot of moving magnet cartridges (the most common) are poorly matched to the phono preamp and have a rise in the upper treble. In other words, "bright" sounding. But for really cheap system, you probably start rolling off around 12 kHz anyway. Harmonic distortion can sound "warm" but that is more of an issue with tube amplification (specifically single ended designs).

Another issue is how the album was mastered. The brickwalling of a lot of digital music (hard limiting, plus gobs of just normal dynamic-range-reducing compression) gives it a fatiguing sound. Vinyl typically (but not always) is mastered with less brute-force techniques because the format can't handle it as well. But I've seen that change as well. A lot of crappy sounding vinyl has the same mastering as the digital, and they just record it more quietly (further reducing the dynamic range) so the needle doesn't jump out of the groove.

Finally never underestimate the power of the fetish factor when it comes to music collectors/enthusiasts. Having a physical product means a lot to some people.

Turntable manufacturers like VPI (American - I have one of theirs) are pushing out units steadily. There has been a recent Renaissance of new "mid-priced" turntables (around $1k) that sound very, very nice. That "hissing" they talk about? Can't hear it on my table with clean vinyl (yeah I have the ubiquitous VPI record cleaning machine as well) that was shipped in good shape (a lot of new vinyl has noise embedded into the grooves; there are too few pressing plants and quality control is a real issue) and you forget you're listening to a record; it's just music.

I suspect this trend will level off. Dedicated music listening just isn't practiced by many people anymore. There are too many other things competing for attention. But for me it can be a nice relaxing respite from reality (that also goes well with that stuff you can get in Colrado).
 
2014-01-11 08:24:12 AM  

Bob Down: I was listening to my Sgt. Pepper's record only the other day. Aside from the occasional pop and a bit of hiss, the only other problem was the needle skipping across the record every time I went around a corner.


That's what 8-tracks are for, rocket scientist.
 
2014-01-11 08:33:59 AM  

riverwalk barfly: Yep.  I'm one of the old farkers  that loves vinyl.  I budget $25 a month for the used record store down the street.  For Christmas a friend gifted me 12 $25 gift certificates for the store.  Awesome.  And yet, I love my iTunes playlist.  Beats the crap out of making those mixed tapes with your vinyl like us old people did way back when.


Today's hipsters don't make playlists, it ruins the artistic integrity. You can only listen to a complete album if you want your modern hipster cred.
 
2014-01-11 08:35:34 AM  

Shadowknight:In photography, you still have a lot of holdouts using old school film, even if the couple of small advantages it has over digital doesn't come close to justifying the trouble and expense. Some people just like the smell of darkroom chemicals and the ritual of swapping out roles of film.

I have very fond memories of an amateur photographer's darkroom.  She was a psychological basket case, but I still stand at attention for the smell of developer.  Okay, point taken.  Someone might have the same feelings for vinyl. 

buntz: Horse drawn carriages are making a comeback too.
Also outhouses, dysentery and cave paintings!


Well, polio and whooping cough, at least.  Damn anti-vax hipsters and their vinyl.
 
2014-01-11 08:39:26 AM  

b0rscht: If you're really into music, you probably already have a turntable because there is a lot of out-of-print music that never made it to a digital format.


Most of it is in digital format thanks to file sharers.
 
2014-01-11 08:43:10 AM  

stoli n coke: Yep. Vinyl collecting is the music fan equivalent of collecting baseball cards.



Link
 
2014-01-11 08:45:41 AM  
I have a dilemma - last Saturday I bought a sealed album of the Pretenders "Learning to Crawl"  I think the release was 1983?  Anyway, Now I'm thinking why the hell did I buy that.  I don't want to break the seal and I own it on CD and MP3..... But as was pointed out above, I'm a collector.  But boy I want to break the seal and put it on the turntable.  It's like a virgin.
 
2014-01-11 08:53:00 AM  

stoli n coke: Bob Down: I was listening to my Sgt. Pepper's record only the other day. Aside from the occasional pop and a bit of hiss, the only other problem was the needle skipping across the record every time I went around a corner.

That's what 8-tracks are for, rocket scientist.


I can honestly say I've never seen or heard an 8-track (and I'm 50+ yrs) They must have been pretty annoying if an album had 10 tracks.
 
2014-01-11 08:54:59 AM  

sarajlewis83: My husband would love it if I would get rid of my music collection in "physical form". Can't/won't do it. There is something about owning the physical product that appeals to me. Also why I continue to buy real books rather than a Kindle, I guess.

/748 CDs and counting....
//.... not including any burned CDs
///at least it's not 748 LPs space-wise



I don't get the reasoning behind KIndles. I can't see having to make sure an electrical device is fully charged every time I want to read for a few hours, when I could just grab a book, find a light source, sit down, and read.

As for the CDs, a good idea is to go through them, figure out which ones you only bought for 1 or 2 songs, upload them into iTunes, and take them to a music shop and sell them. Then, keep the ones that have lots of songs you still listen to.

Did that when I first got iTunes. Because of that, my first iPod only cost me about 35 bucks out of pocket, and i freed up an entire bookcase.
 
2014-01-11 08:56:28 AM  

Bob Down: I was listening to my Sgt. Pepper's record only the other day. Aside from the occasional pop and a bit of hiss, the only other problem was the needle skipping across the record every time I went around a corner.


gatheringbooks.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-01-11 08:58:11 AM  

Bob Down: stoli n coke: Bob Down: I was listening to my Sgt. Pepper's record only the other day. Aside from the occasional pop and a bit of hiss, the only other problem was the needle skipping across the record every time I went around a corner.

That's what 8-tracks are for, rocket scientist.

I can honestly say I've never seen or heard an 8-track (and I'm 50+ yrs) They must have been pretty annoying if an album had 10 tracks.



They usually had 2 or 3 songs for each one.
It is interesting how bands in the 60s and 70s got most of their fans to double dip, buying a vinyl copy of the album for their homes and an 8-track for their cars.

It's also why the most of the top selling albums of all time came out before 1984.
 
2014-01-11 09:00:19 AM  

Bob Down: stoli n coke: Bob Down: I was listening to my Sgt. Pepper's record only the other day. Aside from the occasional pop and a bit of hiss, the only other problem was the needle skipping across the record every time I went around a corner.

That's what 8-tracks are for, rocket scientist.

I can honestly say I've never seen or heard an 8-track (and I'm 50+ yrs) They must have been pretty annoying if an album had 10 tracks.


No fast forward, no rewind.  If you wanted to hear a song again you just had to wait until it came back around on that channel.
 
2014-01-11 09:03:25 AM  
stoli n coke:

It's also why the most of the top selling albums of all time came out before 1984.

"Larry Harris, co-founder of Casablanca Records, in Behind the Mask: "With my association with Billboard, I was able to get five Kiss albums on the charts at one time; this was around '77, '78. I walked in and gave them inflated sales figures, which they could have easily checked if they chose to but they didn't ... This was happening all over the business. In the record industry, if you go top 100 in Billboard with your product, the rack jobbers, the people who sell records in Wal-Mart and Kmart, those huge mass merchandisers, will take your record. If you're not top 100 in Billboard they won't."
 
2014-01-11 09:06:50 AM  

stoli n coke: sarajlewis83: My husband would love it if I would get rid of my music collection in "physical form". Can't/won't do it. There is something about owning the physical product that appeals to me. Also why I continue to buy real books rather than a Kindle, I guess.

/748 CDs and counting....
//.... not including any burned CDs
///at least it's not 748 LPs space-wise


I don't get the reasoning behind KIndles. I can't see having to make sure an electrical device is fully charged every time I want to read for a few hours, when I could just grab a book, find a light source, sit down, and read.

As for the CDs, a good idea is to go through them, figure out which ones you only bought for 1 or 2 songs, upload them into iTunes, and take them to a music shop and sell them. Then, keep the ones that have lots of songs you still listen to.

Did that when I first got iTunes. Because of that, my first iPod only cost me about 35 bucks out of pocket, and i freed up an entire bookcase.


Well, I dunno about the kindles you have used, but I can read for a week straight, several hours a day on my kindle before needing to recharge.
 
2014-01-11 09:10:01 AM  
OK now I understand why everybody takes the piss out of 8-tracks. That auto record player is quite cool for 1960 though. I guess they had to move the steering wheel to the other side to fit it in...
 
2014-01-11 09:16:08 AM  
I used to amp up the phono from the Kenwood turntable so loud on the Sansui stand-alone floor speakers that the dust cover on the turntable had to be removed to prevent violent feedback.

/Get off my gravel lawn.
 
2014-01-11 09:16:33 AM  
Still have one of these.

www.swapsellit.com
 
2014-01-11 09:19:40 AM  

theflatline: Still have one of these.

[www.swapsellit.com image 640x480]


The only 8 track that I've ever owed was Frank Zappa & the mothers Billy the mountain.
 
2014-01-11 09:23:00 AM  

Bob Down: OK now I understand why everybody takes the piss out of 8-tracks. That auto record player is quite cool for 1960 though. I guess they had to move the steering wheel to the other side to fit it in...


The driver's seat is normally on the left in countries where cars are driven on the right hand side of the road.
 
2014-01-11 09:24:17 AM  

Evil Mackerel: theflatline: Still have one of these.

[www.swapsellit.com image 640x480]

The only 8 track that I've ever owed was Frank Zappa & the mothers Billy the mountain.


I am 44, I owned Blondie Auto American, Glenn Campbells greatest hits, and the soundtrack to Goldfinger.

My mom had a 1980 corvette with an 8 track so I saved my pennies and bought a couple.\\

ecx.images-amazon.com
 
2014-01-11 09:25:27 AM  
I honestly don't care what products people spend their money on. You want to listen to music on vinyl. go for it. You want to drink micro-brewed craft beer at $7 a bottle, have at it. Just stop trying to act as if your choices are somehow superior to mine and everyone else.
 
2014-01-11 09:32:33 AM  
Between myself, my wife and my brother we have a thousand vinyl records. I could probably sell the whole collection to some stupid hipster for a fortune.  Difficulty: Finding a hipster with a fortune.
 
2014-01-11 09:33:10 AM  

FeedTheCollapse: The 6.1 million U.S. LP sales still represent only about  , versus 57 percent for CDs and 41 percent for digital albums.


This is a figure that seems to be conspicuously absent in any article proclaiming the rebirth of vinyl. I mean, it's a comeback compared to being mostly dead, but I'm confused as to why people act like vinyl is dominating music sales.


There's a great analogy in the article regarding a double amputee and gloves.
 
2014-01-11 09:45:29 AM  

ReapTheChaos: I honestly don't care what products people spend their money on. You want to listen to music on vinyl. go for it. You want to drink micro-brewed craft beer at $7 a bottle, have at it. Just stop trying to act as if your choices are somehow superior to mine and everyone else.


You sound like a Natty Light man.
 
2014-01-11 09:45:38 AM  
I have a few albums.  I got them for like $5 from goodwill. They're hanging on the wall above my guitars, just because they look cool.
 
2014-01-11 09:51:43 AM  
Everybody wants to buy vinyl. I'm trying to get rid of mine. Zeppelin, Who, Zappa, Doors. Cool at one point, now just takes up space.
 
x23
2014-01-11 09:53:28 AM  

Wyalt Derp: Most new vinyl comes with a download code now, so you get the pristine digital version to listen to and a tangible physical object to look at, which is much prettier than a cd. Or bigger, at least.


yup.

i haven't bought a CD in ages. but have bought a bunch of new releases / reissues / remasters on vinyl in the past year or so. if that didn't exist i just wouldn't have bought anything most likely. or less anyway.

most the releases are limited edition too. which is cool.
 
2014-01-11 09:55:50 AM  

riverwalk barfly: I have a dilemma - last Saturday I bought a sealed album of the Pretenders "Learning to Crawl"  I think the release was 1983?  Anyway, Now I'm thinking why the hell did I buy that.  I don't want to break the seal and I own it on CD and MP3..... But as was pointed out above, I'm a collector.  But boy I want to break the seal and put it on the turntable.  It's like a virgin.


Go ahead, touch it for the.very first time.
 
2014-01-11 10:08:09 AM  
I buy vinyl - new and old stuff. I also listen to digital and streaming music (iTunes, Spotify, Songza) in the car or on the metro or at work. I listen to vinyl records at home when I just want to sit with a glass of whiskey and actively listen to an entire album all the way through.

I admit it may be some kind of "fetish" to have the physical copy, but I think a lot of music fans (and "snobs") buy records for the same reason - to sit and enjoy the music, rather than just have it as background noise while doing something else.
 
2014-01-11 10:09:27 AM  

stoli n coke: I don't get the reasoning behind KIndles. I can't see having to make sure an electrical device is fully charged every time I want to read for a few hours, when I could just grab a book, find a light source, sit down, and read


because a Kindle can easily hold thousands of books. If I finish one book, I can move onto the next, which is especially helpful if I'm not reading at home. Also I only have to charge my Kindle about once a week if I keep my Wi-Fi on, otherwise it can go weeks without recharging.
 
2014-01-11 10:12:08 AM  

Bob Down: stoli n coke: Bob Down: I was listening to my Sgt. Pepper's record only the other day. Aside from the occasional pop and a bit of hiss, the only other problem was the needle skipping across the record every time I went around a corner.

That's what 8-tracks are for, rocket scientist.

I can honestly say I've never seen or heard an 8-track (and I'm 50+ yrs) They must have been pretty annoying if an album had 10 tracks.


8 track refers to how many sound channels the tape held, not the number of songs.

One stereo program is composed of two tracks, so each tape had four parallel stereo programs.

Given the size of the cartridge, there was enough tape for each program to hold the equivalent of half an LP side -- around 10 minutes of music.

So an LP with two sides of music was four programs on 8-track.

However, since there was a fixed maximum amount of tape compared with vinyl where the time per side could be fudged a bit, spreading two LP sides of material over four programs sometimes meant rearranging track order, splitting up long tracks between two programs, etc. 8 track really sucked.

Once and a while 8-tracks did get some extra material, though, padding needed to fill a program on albums or tracks that were supposed to be continuous--Plnk Floyd's Animals and Lou Reed's Berlin had bridging music that wasn't on the LP. Because making Berlin a little bit longer was important if you needed extra time to find a knife to slit your wrist with.

/The first new car my dad ever had was a brown Buick Riviera with 8-track...unfortunately the only tape he had was one that came with the car, disco hits including Disco Duck and Kung Fu fighting.
//Fark the seventies. Seventies sucked azz.
///Other than that time I turned on my crappy Soundesign all-in-one radio/turntable/cassette expecting to hear more bloated prog coming out of it and instead got London's Calling.
 
2014-01-11 10:15:05 AM  

wozzeck: Because making Berlin a little bit longer was important if you needed extra time to find a knife to slit your wrist with.


Now that was farking funny.
 
2014-01-11 10:38:34 AM  

Cat Food Sandwiches: I have many vinyl albums from the 70's.  Strangely, manly of them have a greenish residue in the inside fold.


Ah, back in the day of stems and seeds that we don't need...
 
2014-01-11 10:44:00 AM  
The original vinyl were analog obviously, but are the new ones digital transfers to analog? I assume so, that would make them not true vinyl to me.
 
2014-01-11 10:49:38 AM  

Laobaojun: Any Farker electrical engineer: how hard would it be to come up with a filter that degrades CD quality down to vinyl quality?  Seriously,  I am tired of old folks and effete ironists insisting that vinyl is better, when it should be easy to provide a "crappy vinyl sound" button next to the bass and treble.



You're missing the point. For those who love vinyl, it's that "crappy vinyl sound" that they like. That soft rhythmic whirl of the turntable with the occasional hiss and pop has a soothing quality, it makes the music feel alive. Listening to an album all the way through, one song at a time, is an adventure in sound, something that getting lost in today digital age where you don't even need buy an whole album anymore.

Similar with Autotune. Now any shmuck can make a perfectly produced album with the most optimum sound quality thanks to Autotune but it hard for it to have the soul as albums that are cut on tape. I guarantee if you went back in time and had Fleetwood Mac make Rumors with Autotune on a technical level the sound quality would be perfect but it would not sound as good as the original cut
 
2014-01-11 10:50:16 AM  

Shadowknight: Same in every hobbyist field. In photography, you still have a lot of holdouts using old school film, even if the couple of small advantages it has over digital doesn't come close to justifying the trouble and expense. Some people just like the smell of darkroom chemicals and the ritual of swapping out roles of film.

I'm not one of them, and I'll keep my 5D, thanks. But everyone had to have a passion I guess.


Eh, for many people the ritual itself with the hobby becomes a nice relaxing part of the enjoyment.  Heck I like to listen to old music on record players because the pop and crackle gives it character.  Well or more likely my brain tells me that old music should have that quality and it feels (to me) cosmically righter hearing it that way.
 
2014-01-11 10:58:00 AM  

dennysgod: Laobaojun: Any Farker electrical engineer: how hard would it be to come up with a filter that degrades CD quality down to vinyl quality?  Seriously,  I am tired of old folks and effete ironists insisting that vinyl is better, when it should be easy to provide a "crappy vinyl sound" button next to the bass and treble.


You're missing the point. For those who love vinyl, it's that "crappy vinyl sound" that they like. That soft rhythmic whirl of the turntable with the occasional hiss and pop has a soothing quality, it makes the music feel alive. Listening to an album all the way through, one song at a time, is an adventure in sound, something that getting lost in today digital age where you don't even need buy an whole album anymore.

Similar with Autotune. Now any shmuck can make a perfectly produced album with the most optimum sound quality thanks to Autotune but it hard for it to have the soul as albums that are cut on tape. I guarantee if you went back in time and had Fleetwood Mac make Rumors with Autotune on a technical level the sound quality would be perfect but it would not sound as good as the original cut


That's exactly my point!  It shouldn't be hard to have a filter that puts all that fuzzy stuff onto the clean recordings.  Everyone happy, except purists who will never be happy.
 
2014-01-11 11:05:47 AM  
It is fun to go out an collect records.

I found some cool early Clash and Minutemen records last year.  I was pretty psyched.  Call me whatever you want.

FeedTheCollapse: stoli n coke: I don't get the reasoning behind KIndles. I can't see having to make sure an electrical device is fully charged every time I want to read for a few hours, when I could just grab a book, find a light source, sit down, and read

because a Kindle can easily hold thousands of books. If I finish one book, I can move onto the next, which is especially helpful if I'm not reading at home. Also I only have to charge my Kindle about once a week if I keep my Wi-Fi on, otherwise it can go weeks without recharging.


This was a giant debate in library school.  My answer was always, "why not both."  The Kindle is easier to read on the train, you can instandly purchase books, and some have a back light.  Physical books have all of their classic advantages.

Why does it have to be one or the other.
 
2014-01-11 11:16:14 AM  
Learn to play an instrument you lazy farks.
 
2014-01-11 11:19:41 AM  
All my vinyl is from before he major labels stopped making vinyl like early to mid 90s that I bought back before I had a cd player.

Get off my lawn.
 
2014-01-11 11:21:10 AM  

StoPPeRmobile: Learn to play an instrument you lazy farks.


This is a new one and I love it.
 
2014-01-11 11:27:46 AM  

wozzeck: /The first new car my dad ever had was a brown Buick Riviera with 8-track...unfortunately the only tape he had was one that came with the car, disco hits including Disco Duck and Kung Fu fighting.


I had no idea Buick used this marketing technique.
 
2014-01-11 11:31:07 AM  

John Buck 41: wozzeck: /The first new car my dad ever had was a brown Buick Riviera with 8-track...unfortunately the only tape he had was one that came with the car, disco hits including Disco Duck and Kung Fu fighting.

I had no idea Buick used this marketing technique.


My dad had a white Electra with the same 8-track tape!
 
2014-01-11 11:32:06 AM  
Vinyl can sound fantastic... IF it's in good condition, clean deep in the grooves, and played on a properly set up and adjusted good quality turntable and cartridge, through a properly set up and good quality phono preamp, amp, and speakers. If you're not willing to go through the steps to achieve that quality, you can expect noisy, ratty, crappy sound from your records. That simple.

Likewise, digital can sound fantastic... IF it's mastered properly through a decent D/A conversion stage, not compressed to a brick wall, and the bitrate and bit depth is kept up. Otherwise, it will sound craptacular.

You can't expect to spin your thrift store dirty-ass records on your plastic Crosley retro fake-wood $69.95 player with the plastic tonearm and plastic platter and get to sonic nirvana. Likewise, you can't expect top quality digital audio from an iPod and a pair of earbuds.

Digital or analog, vinyl or CD makes no difference as to whether something sounds good or not. None whatsoever. It all boils down to garbage in, garbage out.
 
2014-01-11 11:32:35 AM  

Gunny Highway: FeedTheCollapse: stoli n coke: I don't get the reasoning behind KIndles. I can't see having to make sure an electrical device is fully charged every time I want to read for a few hours, when I could just grab a book, find a light source, sit down, and read

because a Kindle can easily hold thousands of books. If I finish one book, I can move onto the next, which is especially helpful if I'm not reading at home. Also I only have to charge my Kindle about once a week if I keep my Wi-Fi on, otherwise it can go weeks without recharging.

This was a giant debate in library school.  My answer was always, "why not both."  The Kindle is easier to read on the train, you can instandly purchase books, and some have a back light.  Physical books have all of their classic advantages.

Why does it have to be one or the other.


well, I wasn't really arguing that it has to be one or the other, just explaining the appeal of Kindle.

For what it's worth, I think that there does seem to be a heavy amount of ignorance on the Anti-Kindle side and with their argument for books not extending much deeper than "I like the smells." That said, I don't think the physical medium for books is ever really going to go away, but that has more to do with a desire for a physical product that can't be easily deleted than huffing books like they're scented markers or some shiat.
 
2014-01-11 11:35:43 AM  

LewDux: stoli n coke: Yep. Vinyl collecting is the music fan equivalent of collecting baseball cards.

Link


who the fark wrote that?  its a goddamned essay on baseball card\vinyl collecting, but reads like a farking master's thesis.

Big words do not get your point across.

"The limited edition, once a reasonable countermeasure to over-serving demand, has become the groan-inducing lingua franca of the vinylsphere."

what?
 
2014-01-11 11:36:20 AM  

FeedTheCollapse: Gunny Highway: FeedTheCollapse: stoli n coke: I don't get the reasoning behind KIndles. I can't see having to make sure an electrical device is fully charged every time I want to read for a few hours, when I could just grab a book, find a light source, sit down, and read

because a Kindle can easily hold thousands of books. If I finish one book, I can move onto the next, which is especially helpful if I'm not reading at home. Also I only have to charge my Kindle about once a week if I keep my Wi-Fi on, otherwise it can go weeks without recharging.

This was a giant debate in library school.  My answer was always, "why not both."  The Kindle is easier to read on the train, you can instandly purchase books, and some have a back light.  Physical books have all of their classic advantages.

Why does it have to be one or the other.

well, I wasn't really arguing that it has to be one or the other, just explaining the appeal of Kindle.

For what it's worth, I think that there does seem to be a heavy amount of ignorance on the Anti-Kindle side and with their argument for books not extending much deeper than "I like the smells." That said, I don't think the physical medium for books is ever really going to go away, but that has more to do with a desire for a physical product that can't be easily deleted than huffing books like they're scented markers or some shiat.


Agreed on all accounting.  The smell thing drives me nuts.  Book smell makes me have to shiat.

John Buck 41: wozzeck: /The first new car my dad ever had was a brown Buick Riviera with 8-track...unfortunately the only tape he had was one that came with the car, disco hits including Disco Duck and Kung Fu fighting.

I had no idea Buick used this marketing technique.


Cheers, friend!  Much appreciated.
 
2014-01-11 11:38:10 AM  

Laobaojun: Seriously,  I am tired of old folks and effete ironists insisting that vinyl is better


Why?  Your shiny, new "ONES AND ZEROS ONLY!!11!!" future is an option, not a requirement.  Or are you one of those fascists?  *snort*
 
2014-01-11 11:42:54 AM  

Gunny Highway: The smell thing drives me nuts.  Book smell makes me have to shiat.


it's not even a bad smell, it's just a "really, that's what your argument hinges on?" thing. It's sort of like the "You can't break apart your weed on an MP3!" argument for vinyl, but more Ralph Wiggum-esque.
 
2014-01-11 11:44:48 AM  

Laobaojun: dennysgod: Laobaojun: Any Farker electrical engineer: how hard would it be to come up with a filter that degrades CD quality down to vinyl quality?  Seriously,  I am tired of old folks and effete ironists insisting that vinyl is better, when it should be easy to provide a "crappy vinyl sound" button next to the bass and treble.


You're missing the point. For those who love vinyl, it's that "crappy vinyl sound" that they like. That soft rhythmic whirl of the turntable with the occasional hiss and pop has a soothing quality, it makes the music feel alive. Listening to an album all the way through, one song at a time, is an adventure in sound, something that getting lost in today digital age where you don't even need buy an whole album anymore.

Similar with Autotune. Now any shmuck can make a perfectly produced album with the most optimum sound quality thanks to Autotune but it hard for it to have the soul as albums that are cut on tape. I guarantee if you went back in time and had Fleetwood Mac make Rumors with Autotune on a technical level the sound quality would be perfect but it would not sound as good as the original cut

That's exactly my point!  It shouldn't be hard to have a filter that puts all that fuzzy stuff onto the clean recordings.  Everyone happy, except purists who will never be happy.



Yeah, you're on to something, but it won't ever fly with the vinyl "enthusiast" community because they're enamored with the placebo effect, essentially. "Warmth" and "Soul" are vague terms that people use so that they don't have to use more precise language which makes what they're trying to argue for sound dumb. "Noise" is the term they're trying so hard to avoid. Vinyl has more noise. Due to the placebo effect they have convinced themselves that vinyl sounds better, and so think so despite this extra noise and lower sound resolution.

CD's have a range greater than your ear can discern, vinyl does not. MP3's are lossy, but the bit rate makes a big difference. At 320 kbps MP3's sound damn good, and mathematically better than vinyl. Now that storage space has come down in price so much 320 kbps MP3's aren't just feasible, they're all I use these days (so I can get better bass and sounds in general when listening in my car on my long commutes than I used to get at 128 kbps).

Back in the day when I bought my first MP3 player and was limited to using 32 MB or 64 MB flash cards 128 kbps was a trade-off we needed to make. These days though my music is stored on hard drives in the terabyte size range and my mobile devices use 32 GB and 64 GB microSD cards, so 320 kbps is totally doable.

It's like having an old car though. There's charm in it for some people, which I can understand, but to claim that they perform better than newer cars is just categorically untrue. Enjoy the charm if you want, but you'd sound ridiculous claiming that the old car is better practically than new ones. Newer cars are demonstrably safer (by large margins), have more features and have engines that perform better as well - even if raw MPG figures don't seem to have risen so much (this may be misleading as the extra efficiency engineers have squeezed out of modern engines has been put to use powering new or more powerful features such as better climate control, and also moving heavier vehicles in many cases).
 
2014-01-11 11:51:13 AM  

John Buck 41: wozzeck: /The first new car my dad ever had was a brown Buick Riviera with 8-track...unfortunately the only tape he had was one that came with the car, disco hits including Disco Duck and Kung Fu fighting.

I had no idea Buick used this marketing technique.


No one can resist the call of the Disco Duck.  No wonder he bought the Buick!  :-P

BTW... That's much for the TF. Mighty generous of you, good sir. If you're ever gonna be in southern Iowa, let me know & I'll buy you a beer or 3... Seriously!    :-)
 
2014-01-11 11:51:33 AM  
vinyl can suck it, us REAL audio nerds know that pure analog auditory bliss can only be obtained through a reel to reel machine running at 15ips.

(and I'm only being mildly sarcastic here.  back in the day, the real hi-fi enthusiast had a reel to reel deck.  the sound was superior to vinyl but the physical format left something to be desired)
 
2014-01-11 11:52:01 AM  

mongbiohazard: Yeah, you're on to something, but it won't ever fly with the vinyl "enthusiast" community because they're enamored with the placebo effect, essentially. "Warmth" and "Soul" are vague terms that people use so that they don't have to use more precise language which makes what they're trying to argue for sound dumb. "Noise" is the term they're trying so hard to avoid. Vinyl has more noise. Due to the placebo effect they have convinced themselves that vinyl sounds better, and so think so despite this extra noise and lower sound resolution.


Mmmmm, no, that's not it but I think you got the first paragraph of a sketchy pysch 101 paper.   :  )
 
2014-01-11 11:57:08 AM  
mongbiohazard:

"Warmth" and "Soul" are vague terms that people use so that they don't have to use more precise language which makes what they're trying to argue for sound dumb. "Noise" is the term they're trying so hard to avoid. Vinyl has more noise. Due to the placebo effect they have convinced themselves that vinyl sounds better, and so think so despite this extra noise and lower sound resolution.

I can't speak for all vinyl listeners, but I despise noise. Most of my records are pretty quiet, and some are even dead-quiet. I have several commercially made CDs of some classic jazz albums, as well as the vinyl. A lot of the time, the vinyl IS better. My old late 50s Columbia 6-eye LP of Brubeck's "Time Out" LP trumps the CD, because you can hear the room ambience that's missing somewhat from the CD. It's not always the case, but sometimes, it is.
 
2014-01-11 12:02:53 PM  

stoli n coke: sarajlewis83: My husband would love it if I would get rid of my music collection in "physical form". Can't/won't do it. There is something about owning the physical product that appeals to me. Also why I continue to buy real books rather than a Kindle, I guess.

/748 CDs and counting....
//.... not including any burned CDs
///at least it's not 748 LPs space-wise


I don't get the reasoning behind KIndles. I can't see having to make sure an electrical device is fully charged every time I want to read for a few hours, when I could just grab a book, find a light source, sit down, and read.

As for the CDs, a good idea is to go through them, figure out which ones you only bought for 1 or 2 songs, upload them into iTunes, and take them to a music shop and sell them. Then, keep the ones that have lots of songs you still listen to.

Did that when I first got iTunes. Because of that, my first iPod only cost me about 35 bucks out of pocket, and i freed up an entire bookcase.


I got one of the old-school kindles a couple of years back (text only, no backlight), and the thing lasts for over a month on a single charge. Since I don't use it everyday, it's actually closer to every two months that I wind up charging the thing (which doesn't even take as long as a cell phone to charge).
 
2014-01-11 12:03:07 PM  
The out of hand dismissal of vinyl is largely propagated by people who not only have never heard vinyl on a really well made system in a room tailored for playback.  And that's understandable.  What is not understandable is the vitriol that accompanies their clapped out screeds of "OMG U R all teh oldzor hipsters!"  You think hipsters and old people are a pain in the ass?  Try wading through a 24 pic post on Imgur that is essentially Call of Duty screen shots explaining how wai kewl that particular game was.  Try listening to a two hour ping pong match between an Apple fanboi and a Winblows luser.  Then wait for the Nix / Nux wanker to chime in and watch the piss flow.  It's all a bunch of brand allegiance wankefest malarkey.  And it's monotonous.  The two playback mediums do have different characteristics and believe me, an .mp3 on some POS  earbuds over a 2.39 preamp in a phone really isn't "better".  Neither is an LP on some old tin box with a needle the size of a nail.  But it's about the music, you weenies.  Not the tech.  And I can see where this might sound heretical to anybody born after 1980, but, uh, so f*cking what?  Yanno?  Frankie says relax.
 
2014-01-11 12:03:12 PM  

mongbiohazard: There's charm in it for some people, which I can understand, but to claim that they perform better than newer cars is just categorically untrue. Enjoy the charm if you want, but you'd sound ridiculous claiming that the old car is better practically than new ones.


I agree with you. I tell people this all the time - you can make a cd sound EXACTLY like a vinyl record.  You can NOT however make a vinyl record sound like a cd.

that warmth people talk about is surface noise and it SUCKS.
 
2014-01-11 12:07:46 PM  

bunner: Mmmmm, no, that's not it but I think you got the first paragraph of a sketchy pysch 101 paper. : )


actually that IS it, 100 percent.  there was a study done awhile back, where a vinyl record was blind AB'd against an uncompressed CD made from a rip of that same vinyl.

no one could tell the difference.  all the shiat about waveforms, warmth, "ambiance" is just that - shiat, because the real word is "noise".

A compact disc is sonically superior to vinyl in every respect.  period.
 
2014-01-11 12:11:36 PM  

frepnog: I tell people this all the time - you can make a cd sound EXACTLY like a vinyl record


Well, no.  You can add algorithmic simulacra of noise artifacts of a worn out record on a crap system, but, frankly, I use algorithms every day to mix recordings and most of them are 2987569872984758 flavors of vanilla that do the same thing, poorly.  This is the only industry on earth where we are being sold an endless bunch of software that's guaranteed to "SOUND JUST LIKE" all the sh*t we were told we had to throw away.  And it doesn't.  It does what it does and not that well and most of what makes a good record is always going to be a good band playing a good song, and playing it well.  Thank God.  Rubbing some digital dirt on something doesn't make it sound "just like" anything other than something that has some dirt rubbed on it.  At the end of the day, it's a box of almost that has been put in sufficient order to sound palatable.  The whole thing is fake as hell, but then again, records and movies ARE fakery.  Tons of it.  Glorious, engaging fakery.  Always have been.  This is why record producers and film editors eat well.
 
x23
2014-01-11 12:11:58 PM  

superspeck: vinyl can suck it, us REAL audio nerds know that pure analog auditory bliss can only be obtained through a reel to reel machine running at 15ips.


15ips? i guess if you are into lo-fi garbage. try 30.
 
2014-01-11 12:13:18 PM  

frepnog: a vinyl record was blind AB'd against an uncompressed CD made from a rip of that same vinyl


Fancy that.

frepnog: A compact disc is sonically superior to vinyl in every respect.  period.


Sieg heil, kid.
 
2014-01-11 12:13:32 PM  

GibbyTheMole: mongbiohazard:

"Warmth" and "Soul" are vague terms that people use so that they don't have to use more precise language which makes what they're trying to argue for sound dumb. "Noise" is the term they're trying so hard to avoid. Vinyl has more noise. Due to the placebo effect they have convinced themselves that vinyl sounds better, and so think so despite this extra noise and lower sound resolution.

I can't speak for all vinyl listeners, but I despise noise. Most of my records are pretty quiet, and some are even dead-quiet. I have several commercially made CDs of some classic jazz albums, as well as the vinyl. A lot of the time, the vinyl IS better. My old late 50s Columbia 6-eye LP of Brubeck's "Time Out" LP trumps the CD, because you can hear the room ambience that's missing somewhat from the CD. It's not always the case, but sometimes, it is.



That's most likely because the CD's are actually reproducing the noisy old format they were mastered from more accurately than the vinyl is. It could also be because the masters have deteriorated in the time prior to being mastered to digital.

But it is plain and simple fact that CD's are capable of higher quality sound reproduction than vinyl. There's no debate, it's objective fact due to the capabilities of each medium. If you prefer your music to be from a lower fidelity, noisier, medium then knock yourself out. The hiss, bump and tinnier sound of vinyl may appeal to you and remind you of the halcyon days of yesteryear. Maybe you just like it that way, and the clean and accurate reproduction of sound doesn't appeal to you as much. Cool beans. Enjoy it. Have fun, we all want you to be happy.

Don't try and argue that they sound better though... they simply do not. It's objective fact. Better is not the same as personally preferable.
 
2014-01-11 12:17:12 PM  

mongbiohazard: The hiss, bump and tinnier sound of vinyl may appeal to you


Which is exactly what you get when you play old 78's with a drywall screw for a needle.  Vinyl playback is expensive, Jack.  And you can't txt UR bff with the turntable, so I can see where it's limiting.  And 45's were always sh*t.  They were the .mp3 of their day.
 
2014-01-11 12:17:19 PM  

frepnog: bunner: Mmmmm, no, that's not it but I think you got the first paragraph of a sketchy pysch 101 paper. : )

actually that IS it, 100 percent.  there was a study done awhile back, where a vinyl record was blind AB'd against an uncompressed CD made from a rip of that same vinyl.

no one could tell the difference.  all the shiat about waveforms, warmth, "ambiance" is just that - shiat, because the real word is "noise".

A compact disc is sonically superior to vinyl in every respect.  period.



When someone has deluded themselves in to believing something counter-factual they will defend their delusion vigorously. Once they allow themselves to question one delusion it would call in to question a whole range of their beliefs, and they don't want to go down that road.
 
2014-01-11 12:18:01 PM  

mongbiohazard: When someone has deluded themselves in to believing something counter-factual they will defend their delusion vigorously.


Boy howdy.
 
2014-01-11 12:20:09 PM  
You want to find the guy in the room with no hands on experience with both methods being debated in any given discussion?  Look for the guy slinging absolutes with a dash of sneering superiority.  Anybody selling absolutes should be given a wide berth, IMHO.
 
2014-01-11 12:20:33 PM  
It is a fun hobby.
 
2014-01-11 12:22:07 PM  

bunner: You want to find the guy in the room with no hands on experience with both methods being debated in any given discussion?  Look for the guy slinging absolutes with a dash of sneering superiority.  Anybody selling absolutes should be given a wide berth, IMHO.



You're spinning faster than a 78.

Keep it up as long as you want true believer, but your chosen belief doesn't change the bit rate capabilities of digital and physical media.
 
2014-01-11 12:23:51 PM  
And, frankly, until the people touting either medium too heavily can show me one paycheck they cashed that was received because they were capable of critical listening - which, no, doesn't mean pissing and moaning about how the band sold out by playing Coachella while the /mp3 plays - I'm not gonna lose any sleep over your opinions.
 
2014-01-11 12:24:50 PM  

mongbiohazard: When someone has deluded themselves in to believing something counter-factual they will defend their delusion vigorously. Once they allow themselves to question one delusion it would call in to question a whole range of their beliefs, and they don't want to go down that road.


well it is how companies take advantage of "audiophiles" with shiat like 600 dollar power outlets, "brilliant pebbles", and other nonsense.

bunner: You can add algorithmic simulacra of noise artifacts of a worn out record on a crap system, but, frankly, I use algorithms every day to mix recordings and most of them are 2987569872984758 flavors of vanilla that do the same thing, poorly. This is the only industry on earth where we are being sold an endless bunch of software that's guaranteed to "SOUND JUST LIKE" all the sh*t we were told we had to throw away. And it doesn't. It does what it does and not that well and most of what makes a good record is always going to be a good band playing a good song, and playing it well. Thank God. Rubbing some digital dirt on something doesn't make it sound "just like" anything other than something that has some dirt rubbed on it.


Record a vinyl record to uncompressed wav.  Convert that wav to redbook audio.  Burn.

Voila.  You have a cd that is indistinguishable to human ears from the vinyl original.

If you say you can hear the difference, well, you are either superman....  or lying.
 
2014-01-11 12:25:42 PM  
mongbiohazard: keep it up as long as you want true believer,

Do you ever put any film in that projector, because you are seriously hilarious.  ABSOLUTES!  SCIENCE!  Oh, Prunella.
 
2014-01-11 12:27:16 PM  

bunner: mongbiohazard: The hiss, bump and tinnier sound of vinyl may appeal to you

Which is exactly what you get when you play old 78's with a drywall screw for a needle.  Vinyl playback is expensive, Jack.  And you can't txt UR bff with the turntable, so I can see where it's limiting.  And 45's were always sh*t.  They were the .mp3 of their day.


Is it just me or is the "you have to constantly upkeep it and spend a lot of $$$ to make the medium sound good" explanation rather counter-intuitive?
 
2014-01-11 12:27:52 PM  

frepnog: Record a vinyl record to uncompressed wav.  Convert that wav to redbook audio.  Burn


Why would I want to do that when I can just go to Sh*tMart and , buy a CD?  Like all things analogue, the signal chain dictates the quality.  CDs are much more forgiving because they just barf up whatever math is on them.  And very well, I might add.  I own several.  Very handy.
 
2014-01-11 12:28:04 PM  

bunner: Anybody selling absolutes should be given a wide berth, IMHO.


in cases where there is little more than differences of opinion, sure.

People who carry the opinion that vinyl is superior to cd however are unfortunately wrong in their opinion, and it can be scientifically proven that they are, in fact, wrong.

Some people can sleep in a silent room.  Others require white noise.

Its a similar phenomenon.
 
2014-01-11 12:28:15 PM  

frepnog: mongbiohazard: There's charm in it for some people, which I can understand, but to claim that they perform better than newer cars is just categorically untrue. Enjoy the charm if you want, but you'd sound ridiculous claiming that the old car is better practically than new ones.

I agree with you. I tell people this all the time - you can make a cd sound EXACTLY like a vinyl record.  You can NOT however make a vinyl record sound like a cd.

that warmth people talk about is surface noise and it SUCKS.


I see you have tinnitus.
 
2014-01-11 12:28:35 PM  
For those of us old enough to remember, there was a time when vinyl could sound better than CD's.  I jumped on the CD player bandwagon early on, and was massively disappointed when I started buying replacement copies of some of my favorite vinyl on the new format.  Even with a good player and stereo a lot of the original transfers coming out back then sounded horrible.  I remember distinctly my Led Zeppelin II cd sounding like I was listening with earmuffs on.  There's been a lot of advancements since then.
 
2014-01-11 12:30:12 PM  

FeedTheCollapse: Is it just me or is the "you have to constantly upkeep it and spend a lot of $$$ to make the medium sound good" explanation rather counter-intuitive?


Well, actually, you don't.  You just gotta get something worth owning and maintain it.  Counter intuitive?  Beats me.  Some people thing turning wrenches on their '66 Nova is bliss.  And I'm sort of fine with that, really.  You're always gonna have the noodlers for whom the point of any technology is pissing about with th technology and not utilizing it for what it does.  Works for me.
 
2014-01-11 12:31:11 PM  

bunner: mongbiohazard: keep it up as long as you want true believer,

Do you ever put any film in that projector, because you are seriously hilarious.  ABSOLUTES!  SCIENCE!  Oh, Prunella.



And you'll never even stop to think why you're getting so upset and defensive. That's the nature of delusion for ya...
 
2014-01-11 12:36:25 PM  

x23: superspeck: vinyl can suck it, us REAL audio nerds know that pure analog auditory bliss can only be obtained through a reel to reel machine running at 15ips.

15ips? i guess if you are into lo-fi garbage. try 30.


I'm talking for consumers.  Personally, I always made sure I was in the studio when an album I wanted to buy was being recorded, mixed and mastered.  Because I'm a true music fan, unlike you people.
 
2014-01-11 12:36:35 PM  
frepnog: People who carry the opinion that vinyl is superior to cd however are unfortunately wrong in their opinion, and it can be scientifically proven that they are, in fact, wrong.

Some people can sleep in a silent room.  Others require white noise.

Its a similar phenomenon.


I have no idea why you're so virulently invested into this meaningless argument about apples and oranges, actually.  But I've been performing, recording and mixing live shows and studio recordings for three decades and you are seriously full of moose crap.  No offense.  Me?  I got no pony in this heat.  The artist can request that the two track be released on wax cylinder, if the check clears.  But I'll lay you  1,000.00 you never heard pristine vinyl of a well mixed record played back on a really brilliant system.  And, frankly, so what?  Seriously, man are the atheist threads closed?  You gotta troll this with your great pronouncements?  I guess it's a cheaper hobby than bar blowhard.  Carry on, Aristophanes.   :  )
 
2014-01-11 12:39:16 PM  

mongbiohazard: And you'll never even stop to think why you're getting so upset and defensive.


So, no.  Just the projector lamp running full tilt, no film.  You're not a very good troll.  Seriously.  When you have to assert that the "victim" is getting all flustered and AnGrY1!1!1, you've already blown the troll.  Study it out.   :  )
 
2014-01-11 12:39:46 PM  

bunner: frepnog: People who carry the opinion that vinyl is superior to cd however are unfortunately wrong in their opinion, and it can be scientifically proven that they are, in fact, wrong.

Some people can sleep in a silent room.  Others require white noise.

Its a similar phenomenon.

I have no idea why you're so virulently invested into this meaningless argument about apples and oranges, actually.  But I've been performing, recording and mixing live shows and studio recordings for three decades and you are seriously full of moose crap.  No offense.  Me?  I got no pony in this heat.  The artist can request that the two track be released on wax cylinder, if the check clears.  But I'll lay you  1,000.00 you never heard pristine vinyl of a well mixed record played back on a really brilliant system.  And, frankly, so what?  Seriously, man are the atheist threads closed?  You gotta troll this with your great pronouncements?  I guess it's a cheaper hobby than bar blowhard.  Carry on, Aristophanes.   :  )


images.cdn.bigcartel.com
 
2014-01-11 12:42:29 PM  
Thank you for reinforcing my assumption that you are the sort of person who lives their lives my internet wheel charts and wikipedia entries.  Now go yank on somebody else's shirt tail, kid, will ya?   :  )
 
2014-01-11 12:44:18 PM  

StoPPeRmobile: I see you have tinnitus.


oh, surely.  too many loud shows in the 90's damaged my ears, but good.  never go to anything loud without earplugs these days.

jj325: I remember distinctly my Led Zeppelin II cd sounding like I was listening with earmuffs on.


early cd mastering sucked eggs.  they WERE just recording old master tapes to cd and letting it go.

bunner: Why would I want to do that when I can just go to Sh*tMart and , buy a CD?


Depends on the album really.  I have a lossless vinyl rip of Kiss Alive II that to this day beats the sound on the officially released cd.
 
2014-01-11 12:45:49 PM  

bunner: But I've been performing, recording and mixing live shows and studio recordings for three decades


then friend, seriously, YOU SHOULD farkING KNOW BETTER.
 
2014-01-11 12:46:50 PM  

frepnog: I have a lossless vinyl rip of Kiss Alive II that to this day beats the sound on the officially released cd.


Impossible!  It's an exact, lossless duplicate of a recording from a noisy, lossly medium through noisy electronic signal chains!  *snort*
 
2014-01-11 12:48:58 PM  

frepnog: bunner: But I've been performing, recording and mixing live shows and studio recordings for three decades

then friend, seriously, YOU SHOULD farkING KNOW BETTER.


Yes, I dare say anybody who doesn't absolutely agree with your opinions on the internet should be widely dismissed and pitied, and that's fine, but can you do it more quietly?
 
2014-01-11 12:57:23 PM  
stoli n coke:
Sorry if that clashes with the tekkies dream of one day owning a living room with just a chair, a laptop, and nothing else.Tangible media still has its charms.

Uh, laptop? Try voice-activated commands, chief.
 
2014-01-11 12:59:05 PM  

bunner: frepnog: bunner: But I've been performing, recording and mixing live shows and studio recordings for three decades

then friend, seriously, YOU SHOULD farkING KNOW BETTER.

Yes, I dare say anybody who doesn't absolutely agree with your opinions on the internet should be widely dismissed and pitied, and that's fine, but can you do it more quietly?


nah.

bunner: frepnog: I have a lossless vinyl rip of Kiss Alive II that to this day beats the sound on the officially released cd.

Impossible!  It's an exact, lossless duplicate of a recording from a noisy, lossly medium through noisy electronic signal chains!  *snort*


the officially released cd was a poor master and has never been improved.
 
2014-01-11 01:03:28 PM  

frepnog: the officially released cd was a poor master and has never been improved.


The officially released master was of a recording that was a complete fabrication made up of canned applause tracks, some like stuff tracked to a tape machine and studio overdubs.  And not only is it one of the worst sounding records in rock history, it doesn't even exist.  And I would have happily put my hand to cobbling together this utter con job if the phone rang and the check cleared.    :  )  Saying stuff like "lossless tip that exceeds the CD relase" about Kiss Alive I or II is a bit like saying "I have a argon sealed framed piece of preschool refrigerator art."
 
2014-01-11 01:04:08 PM  
DANKOSKY: So, first of all, I'll ask you, Scott: vinyl or CD?

(SOUNDBITE OF LAUGHTER)

METCALFE: I enjoy both formats, but my preference is definitely CD.

DANKOSKY: Now, why CD?

METCALFE: Well, I think it has a lot to do with the fact that I'm primarily a recording engineer, as far as working with music. And it's - the closer thing to what I'm sending into the recorder is very much what I'm getting back out. With analog formats, although the sound can be very pleasing in certain styles, it's definitely imparting its own sound on it. And I think, to an extent, it's that sound that some people are really drawn to. But it's nice as an engineer to have the confidence of knowing that what I'm putting into - in most cases these days, the computer - is pretty close to what I'm going to get out.

DANKOSKY: Sean Olive, I have to ask you. I think I know your answer, but vinyl or CD?

OLIVE: Definitely CD.

DANKOSKY: Yeah? So tell me why.

OLIVE: Well, I mean, I grew up listening to records up until about '85, when the CD was already out. And I was involved in testing loudspeakers up at the National Research Council in Canada. And we were testing cartridges at that time, and it was quite apparent that the amount of distortion coming out of these devices was very high compared to CD. So what we found was that vinyl was a limiting factor in our ability to do accurate and reliable listening tests on loudspeakers, and we had to find a more reliable and more accurate medium.


Why Vinyl Sounds Better Than CD, Or Not
 
2014-01-11 01:04:45 PM  

frepnog: bunner:  

Yes, I dare say anybody who doesn't absolutely agree with your opinions on the internet should be widely dismissed and pitied, and that's fine, but can you do it more quietly?

nah.


Ah.  My internet volume knob.  Let me show it to you.
 
2014-01-11 01:05:19 PM  
Man, vinyl versus digital debates have become serious business on Fark.
 
2014-01-11 01:09:00 PM  

Glitchwerks: Man, vinyl versus digital debates have become serious business on Fark.


Actually, you can plug in pretty much any two overhyped, this-is-just-marketing-horsesh*t false dichotomies and get the same rabid foamers chiming in to straighten out the world at large.  It's the nature of anonymous discourse.  Which is largely a euphemism.
 
2014-01-11 01:09:10 PM  

bunner: frepnog: the officially released cd was a poor master and has never been improved.

The officially released master was of a recording that was a complete fabrication made up of canned applause tracks, some like stuff tracked to a tape machine and studio overdubs.  And not only is it one of the worst sounding records in rock history, it doesn't even exist.  And I would have happily put my hand to cobbling together this utter con job if the phone rang and the check cleared.    :  )  Saying stuff like "lossless tip that exceeds the CD relase" about Kiss Alive I or II is a bit like saying "I have a argon sealed framed piece of preschool refrigerator art."


duh.  everyone knows that the live record was faked.  Doesn't keep it from being one of my favorite childhood albums, and doesn't keep the official cd from sounding like crap.  it is one of those early cases where the vinyl in fact does sound better than the cd - not because of limitations of cd, but because it was never properly re-mastered for the format.

/yeah, yeah, Kiss suck.  in 1977 they might as well been God, Jesus and the two angels, for all my 6 year old brain cared.
 
2014-01-11 01:10:52 PM  

Glitchwerks: Man, vinyl versus digital debates have become serious business on Fark.




Not really. The vinyl fans just get angry when people point out that the emperor has no clothes.
 
2014-01-11 01:12:44 PM  

Gunny Highway: John Buck 41: wozzeck: /The first new car my dad ever had was a brown Buick Riviera with 8-track...unfortunately the only tape he had was one that came with the car, disco hits including Disco Duck and Kung Fu fighting.

I had no idea Buick used this marketing technique.

Cheers, friend!  Much appreciated.


GibbyTheMole: John Buck 41: wozzeck: /The first new car my dad ever had was a brown Buick Riviera with 8-track...unfortunately the only tape he had was one that came with the car, disco hits including Disco Duck and Kung Fu fighting.

I had no idea Buick used this marketing technique.

No one can resist the call of the Disco Duck.  No wonder he bought the Buick!  :-P

BTW... That's much for the TF. Mighty generous of you, good sir. If you're ever gonna be in southern Iowa, let me know & I'll buy you a beer or 3... Seriously!    :-)


You're both most welcome. The beer offer is reciprocal if either of you are in Eastern/Midcoast ME.
 
2014-01-11 01:13:19 PM  

frepnog: duh.  everyone knows that the live record was faked.  Doesn't keep it from being one of my favorite childhood albums


Precisely.  Welcome to the world of art as subjective experience.  I saw their first tour, btw.  The New York Dolls opened.  It was a lesson in asplosions and funny clothes over substance that stuck with me and, apparently, a whole lot of bands who knocked four chords together and could afford an actinic powder flash pot and a couple of dresses.  Interesting times.
 
2014-01-11 01:14:17 PM  

bunner: Glitchwerks: Man, vinyl versus digital debates have become serious business on Fark.

Actually, you can plug in pretty much any two overhyped, this-is-just-marketing-horsesh*t false dichotomies and get the same rabid foamers chiming in to straighten out the world at large.  It's the nature of anonymous discourse.  Which is largely a euphemism.


it isn't that.  it is that there are people that claim vinyl is superior at music reproduction, which is patently and scinetifically provably false.

You say you LIKE vinyl better?  Good deal.  I can understand you and we can continue.

You say vinyl simply IS better?  You are ignorant and need to learn some things about media and how the music on it is produced without letting your opinion cloud fact.

Vinyl is having a small resurgence because people are stupid and the recording industry saw a way to make a buck.
 
2014-01-11 01:15:44 PM  

bunner: Welcome to the world of art as subjective experience.


except that the differences between vinyl and cd are anything but subjective.
 
2014-01-11 01:20:17 PM  

frepnog: You say vinyl simply IS better?  You are ignorant and need to learn some things about media and how the music on it is produced without letting your opinion cloud fact.

Vinyl is having a small resurgence because people are stupid and the recording industry saw a way to make a buck.


Wow.  Okey dokey, mein Furher.  And I'm almost sorry that you have never heard pristine vinyl on a truly stellar system, but to be honest it really works better on recordings that have a low noise floor and aren't COMPRESSEDTOF*CK* But your endless need to bark a bunch of absolutes for SCIENCE™ doesn't inform me much, frankly.  I've never tried to listen to a record over an oscilloscope.  Seems sort of a low ROI.
 
2014-01-11 01:20:30 PM  

frepnog: bunner: frepnog: the officially released cd was a poor master and has never been improved.

The officially released master was of a recording that was a complete fabrication made up of canned applause tracks, some like stuff tracked to a tape machine and studio overdubs.  And not only is it one of the worst sounding records in rock history, it doesn't even exist.  And I would have happily put my hand to cobbling together this utter con job if the phone rang and the check cleared.    :  )  Saying stuff like "lossless tip that exceeds the CD relase" about Kiss Alive I or II is a bit like saying "I have a argon sealed framed piece of preschool refrigerator art."

duh.  everyone knows that the live record was faked.  Doesn't keep it from being one of my favorite childhood albums, and doesn't keep the official cd from sounding like crap.  it is one of those early cases where the vinyl in fact does sound better than the cd - not because of limitations of cd, but because it was never properly re-mastered for the format.

/yeah, yeah, Kiss suck.  in 1977 they might as well been God, Jesus and the two angels, for all my 6 year old brain cared.


Alive II might have been faked, but everything I've read said Alive I probably had about a days worth of studio punch ins to fix obvious flubs.  Casablanca was broke thanks to their failed Johnny Carson Tonight Show records. They simply didn't have the $ at the time to do much of anything else.

Thin Lizzy's "Live and Dangerous" is another story.

/sure would love to hijack this thread into a live album debate
 
2014-01-11 01:25:40 PM  
And the "industry" is sucking the torrents dick, atm, because for all of the self professed music lovers and those appreciative of the Obviously Inherent Superisority™ of the Cee of Dee, ain't nobody paying for it.  Which gets you a lot of hobbyists cranking sh*t out of CD baby after their shift at UPS.  If you really think the Ebil Recording Industry is making dough off of some vinyl marketing shuck, I'd skip the screeds about being delusional.  The only label on earth that isn't pissing red ink, atm, is Disney.  Enjoy your lossless Hillary Duff.
 
2014-01-11 01:27:55 PM  

superspeck: /sure would love to hijack this thread into a live album debate


g-ecx.images-amazon.com

That is exactly what that band sounded like on that day in that room.  Period.  And that's what fidelity means.
 
2014-01-11 01:34:43 PM  
Any media that requires physical contact of two things to reproduce the product is going to degrade in quality every time you use it.

God bless the man who created the CD.
 
2014-01-11 01:37:00 PM  

Disgruntled Goat: Any media that requires physical contact of two things to reproduce the product is going to degrade in quality every time you use it.


no no, that's "warmth".
 
2014-01-11 01:39:38 PM  

bunner: And I'm almost sorry that you have never heard pristine vinyl on a truly stellar system


I have.  Used to own a pretty expensive rack system with an amazingly good turntable and have friends with expensive stuff.  I never said "records sound like shiat".  Good equipment can make a shiatty 45 with scratches on it sound good.
 
2014-01-11 01:40:39 PM  
Anybody selling analogue "warmth" has kool aid on their chin.

Disgruntled Goat: Any media that requires physical contact of two things to reproduce the product is going to degrade in quality every time you use it.

God bless the man who created the CD.


And the condom.  Pretty much the same experience.   :  ) I suppose there's something to be said for life in a clean room, but life is messy and sh*t breaks and wears out.  Thank God.

This mostly sounds like a bunch of kids smoking behind the garage and debating love making techniques from what they've gleaned from their father's porn stash.  YMMV.  Carry on, soldiers.
 
2014-01-11 01:42:11 PM  

frepnog: Good equipment can make a shiatty 45 with scratches on it sound good.


It can?  Can you point me to a retailer?  Because every 45 I've ever heard sounded like it was etched into an old piece of dashboard plastic with a matte knife.
 
2014-01-11 01:48:13 PM  

stoli n coke: sarajlewis83: My husband would love it if I would get rid of my music collection in "physical form". Can't/won't do it. There is something about owning the physical product that appeals to me. Also why I continue to buy real books rather than a Kindle, I guess.

/748 CDs and counting....
//.... not including any burned CDs
///at least it's not 748 LPs space-wise


I don't get the reasoning behind KIndles. I can't see having to make sure an electrical device is fully charged every time I want to read for a few hours, when I could just grab a book, find a light source, sit down, and read.

As for the CDs, a good idea is to go through them, figure out which ones you only bought for 1 or 2 songs, upload them into iTunes, and take them to a music shop and sell them. Then, keep the ones that have lots of songs you still listen to.

Did that when I first got iTunes. Because of that, my first iPod only cost me about 35 bucks out of pocket, and i freed up an entire bookcase.


Try reading a copy of Infinite Jest or Anathem on a plane, and you'll soon see the appeal of a Kindle. Plus, my Paperwhite looks almost like paper when reading it, is backlit for easy reading in the dark, and only needs to be charged about once a month. It's a really nice device for reading.
 
2014-01-11 01:49:02 PM  

bunner: Because every 45 I've ever heard sounded like it was etched into an old piece of dashboard plastic with a matte knife.


oh sweet jesus.  I used to have quite a collection of 45's.  They can sound quite good. this was a favorite, for some reason.

pretty sure I technically lost my virginity to that 45.
 
2014-01-11 01:49:35 PM  
i21.photobucket.com

For all of you.
 
2014-01-11 01:49:42 PM  

frepnog: bunner: Because every 45 I've ever heard sounded like it was etched into an old piece of dashboard plastic with a matte knife.

oh sweet jesus.  I used to have quite a collection of 45's.  They can sound quite good. this was a favorite, for some reason.

pretty sure I technically lost my virginity to that 45.


www.45picturesleeves.com

try again.  heheh.
 
2014-01-11 01:51:38 PM  

frepnog: bunner: Because every 45 I've ever heard sounded like it was etched into an old piece of dashboard plastic with a matte knife.

oh sweet jesus.  I used to have quite a collection of 45's.  They can sound quite good. this was a favorite, for some reason.

pretty sure I technically lost my virginity to that 45.


Um, which 45?  I won't even go into the fact that most of them are only 3:40 long  ;  )
 
2014-01-11 01:52:31 PM  
Ah.  Pretty girl and a good band.
 
2014-01-11 01:56:39 PM  

bunner: Ah.  Pretty girl and a good band.


I was 13 when that came out.  I saw it in the shop and I am pretty sure that was one of if not the first time I realized I was straight.

I raped that record every night for weeks.
 
2014-01-11 01:59:07 PM  

Disgruntled Goat: Any media that requires physical contact of two things to reproduce the product is going to degrade in quality every time you use it.

God bless the man who created the CD.




That was why I would tape my records, and listen to that instead of the record. Teac V-770 3 head, Dolby B,C & HX Pro. With a good CRO2 or metal blank, it was very difficult to tell the difference between a recorded CD and the original (crank up the volume between songs, and you could hear the tape imparted hiss, but you had to get the volume quite high).
 
2014-01-11 02:02:20 PM  

frepnog: bunner: Ah.  Pretty girl and a good band.

I was 13 when that came out.  I saw it in the shop and I am pretty sure that was one of if not the first time I realized I was straight.

I raped that record every night for weeks.


I was 29 and probably bent over a console.  The fact that music still benchmarks peoples lives is why I can afford to live indoors.  Thanks for listening.
 
2014-01-11 02:06:21 PM  
Speaking of which, I must make the three flights of stairs commute to my humble mix facility and throw some stuff up on the anvil off of my client's new "reel" and turn in some two track mixes by tonight.  Keep enjoying the wonder that music adds to our lives and try and remember that all the people who make it by playing it and hammering it into a product need rent money, too.  Keep on rocking in the free world.  Lates.
 
2014-01-11 02:07:55 PM  

bunner: hammering it into a product need rent money, too.


agreed.
 
2014-01-11 02:22:27 PM  

Laobaojun: Any Farker electrical engineer: how hard would it be to come up with a filter that degrades CD quality down to vinyl quality?  Seriously,  I am tired of old folks and effete ironists insisting that vinyl is better, when it should be easy to provide a "crappy vinyl sound" button next to the bass and treble.


They have software VSTs that will do that for you now.
 
2014-01-11 02:29:08 PM  

Rent Party: Laobaojun: Any Farker electrical engineer: how hard would it be to come up with a filter that degrades CD quality down to vinyl quality?  Seriously,  I am tired of old folks and effete ironists insisting that vinyl is better, when it should be easy to provide a "crappy vinyl sound" button next to the bass and treble.

They have software VSTs that will do that for you now.


I just use sand
 
2014-01-11 02:34:38 PM  

bunner: You want to find the guy in the room with no hands on experience with both methods being debated in any given discussion?  Look for the guy slinging absolutes with a dash of sneering superiority.  Anybody selling absolutes should be given a wide berth, IMHO.


I have experience with both.  I mix every day.  I even love my records, and have a really nice turntable.

Digital is vastly superior to analog if the quality measure is fidelity.

I like vinyl because it forces you to sit and listen.   I have thousands of songs on my nano, and I usually listen to that when I'm doing something else.  I can never remember what was played.   Records are a listening event.  It requires your attention.

But pretending it is acoustically superior to digital is just delusional.
 
2014-01-11 02:38:17 PM  

Laobaojun: dennysgod: Laobaojun: Any Farker electrical engineer: how hard would it be to come up with a filter that degrades CD quality down to vinyl quality?  Seriously,  I am tired of old folks and effete ironists insisting that vinyl is better, when it should be easy to provide a "crappy vinyl sound" button next to the bass and treble.


You're missing the point. For those who love vinyl, it's that "crappy vinyl sound" that they like. That soft rhythmic whirl of the turntable with the occasional hiss and pop has a soothing quality, it makes the music feel alive. Listening to an album all the way through, one song at a time, is an adventure in sound, something that getting lost in today digital age where you don't even need buy an whole album anymore.

Similar with Autotune. Now any shmuck can make a perfectly produced album with the most optimum sound quality thanks to Autotune but it hard for it to have the soul as albums that are cut on tape. I guarantee if you went back in time and had Fleetwood Mac make Rumors with Autotune on a technical level the sound quality would be perfect but it would not sound as good as the original cut

That's exactly my point!  It shouldn't be hard to have a filter that puts all that fuzzy stuff onto the clean recordings.  Everyone happy, except purists who will never be happy.


There are literally thousands of programs out there that do this. One can add clicks and pops, turn on an "analog saturizer/saturator", "tape simulator", on and on.  By law, 20% of all rap records start with the "needle dropping on turntable" sound. One of my synths has it has a preset, I can press a key and Voila!

bunner: Like all things analogue, the signal chain dictates the quality.


True, but very few have the proper playback gear to distinguish that.

bunner: But I'll lay you  1,000.00 you never heard pristine vinyl of a well mixed record played back on a really brilliant system.


Most people haven't heard digital that way either, especially in a proper room. I don't really have a preference in the analog vs. digital war, besides vinyl needing more care in handling.
 
2014-01-11 02:40:39 PM  

Rent Party: I like vinyl because it forces you to sit and listen.


oh now THIS is some hipster bullshiat.

I grew up with records.  I knew where to put the needle in the groove to play the song I wanted and swapped records quite often, usually after one or two songs.  call it an analog playlist, if you will.  rarely did I just put on a record and let it play, unless it was a new release.  and it was much quicker to change tracks usually than even pushing "next" on a cd player.
 
2014-01-11 02:48:54 PM  
Why I like vinyl:

1. Thrill of the hunt

2. Collecting

3. Listening

4. Caring for your collection

A good analogy for me is that vinyl is like a collector car. It's not what I use all the time, but when I do there's just something magical about it
 
2014-01-11 02:51:53 PM  

Mr.Poops: Why I like vinyl:

1. Thrill of the hunt

2. Collecting

3. Listening

4. Caring for your collection

A good analogy for me is that vinyl is like a collector car. It's not what I use all the time, but when I do there's just something magical about it


Sounds exhausting.
 
2014-01-11 02:51:58 PM  

LewDux: Rent Party: Laobaojun: Any Farker electrical engineer: how hard would it be to come up with a filter that degrades CD quality down to vinyl quality?  Seriously,  I am tired of old folks and effete ironists insisting that vinyl is better, when it should be easy to provide a "crappy vinyl sound" button next to the bass and treble.

They have software VSTs that will do that for you now.

I just use sand


I guess there were no crawdad.
 
2014-01-11 03:08:02 PM  
This:

www.dankury.com
 
2014-01-11 03:21:13 PM  

frepnog: Mr.Poops: Why I like vinyl:

1. Thrill of the hunt

2. Collecting

3. Listening

4. Caring for your collection

A good analogy for me is that vinyl is like a collector car. It's not what I use all the time, but when I do there's just something magical about it

Sounds exhausting.


He's got a high motor.
 
2014-01-11 03:23:31 PM  

stoli n coke: I don't get the reasoning behind KIndles. I can't see having to make sure an electrical device is fully charged every time I want to read for a few hours, when I could just grab a book, find a light source, sit down, and read.


You as long as you're not using a reading light that runs off the battery, and turn your wifi off, a fully charged battery will last almost three weeks of daily use.  And charging takes maybe three hours.  For my money, it's the way to go, especially since I can sync the Kindle across multiple platforms.  I may not have a book or Kindle with me, but if I have a few extra minutes stuck on the train, I can pull out my Samsung S4 and it picks up right where I left off, no matter what device I was on, and I can get a few minutes in when I didn't expect it.

That, and I have the satisfaction of not killing any extra trees.
 
2014-01-11 03:32:44 PM  
I've been buying Vinyl, but not for all my music. I just collect the vinyl form the 2-3 bands i really care about, and thats it.

Its more of a collectible than a music experience. And bands have noticed, with special releases on vinyl only, limited runs of only 200-400 copies, special copies on custom wax (colored, multi-color, clear, etc)
 
2014-01-11 03:42:15 PM  

frepnog: Rent Party: I like vinyl because it forces you to sit and listen.

oh now THIS is some hipster bullshiat.

I grew up with records.  I knew where to put the needle in the groove to play the song I wanted and swapped records quite often, usually after one or two songs.  call it an analog playlist, if you will.  rarely did I just put on a record and let it play, unless it was a new release.  and it was much quicker to change tracks usually than even pushing "next" on a cd player.


So you just put the needle on and then walked off?

No, you sat and listened.  That was the whole point of dropping the needle on that spot.  You had to do work in order to hear the music.

Unless, you know, you had one of those turntables with the "shuffle" feature.
 
2014-01-11 03:42:44 PM  

frepnog: Rent Party: I like vinyl because it forces you to sit and listen.

oh now THIS is some hipster bullshiat.

I grew up with records.  I knew where to put the needle in the groove to play the song I wanted and swapped records quite often, usually after one or two songs.  call it an analog playlist, if you will.  rarely did I just put on a record and let it play, unless it was a new release.  and it was much quicker to change tracks usually than even pushing "next" on a cd player.




Man, I never did that. If I had a record that only had one or two tracks that I liked, I'd put those on a tape, with other tracks from similar records. But as a rule, I just put the record on the turntable, cleaned it with my Discwasher, and let it play. Luckily, by the time I actually managed to get a woman back to my place, I mostly listened to tapes and CDs; one side of a record isn't very long when you want to have some makeout music on in the background.
 
2014-01-11 03:47:32 PM  

bunner: Thank you for reinforcing my assumption that you are the sort of person who lives their lives my internet wheel charts and wikipedia entries.  Now go yank on somebody else's shirt tail, kid, will ya?   :  )


Sorry to make you feel so defensive, but you should really blame your parents for you being so dumb, not me.
 
2014-01-11 04:53:43 PM  

Rent Party: But pretending it is acoustically superior to digital is just delusional.


*Clicks Digital Is Teh Godz0r!1" counter*  Gotcha.
 
2014-01-11 04:55:38 PM  

mongbiohazard: Sorry to make you feel so defensive


nelleytimes.files.wordpress.com

                               "Get him, kids."
 
2014-01-11 04:58:35 PM  

Oldiron_79: All my vinyl is from before he major labels stopped making vinyl like early to mid 90s that I bought back before I had a cd player.

Get off my lawn.


So...you're saying you were into vinyl before it was cool?
 
2014-01-11 05:20:35 PM  
mongbiohazard:

That's most likely because the CD's are actually reproducing the noisy old format they were mastered from more accurately than the vinyl is. It could also be because the masters have deteriorated in the time prior to being mastered to digital.

That's probably true. Even more likely is that the CD is made from a bin master rather than the original 1st tapes.

But it is plain and simple fact that CD's are capable of higher quality sound reproduction than vinyl. There's no debate, it's objective fact due to the capabilities of each medium.

Also... true. IF you're taking about the end medium itself. But a crappily mastered CD does not sound better than a well mastered LP of the same thing. Garbage in, garbage out.
 
2014-01-11 05:35:52 PM  
I dig vinyl. It's fun to collect, it's a good way to support indie bands and it's cool.
 
2014-01-11 05:40:30 PM  
 
2014-01-11 06:34:44 PM  

Rent Party: Laobaojun: Any Farker electrical engineer: how hard would it be to come up with a filter that degrades CD quality down to vinyl quality?  Seriously,  I am tired of old folks and effete ironists insisting that vinyl is better, when it should be easy to provide a "crappy vinyl sound" button next to the bass and treble.

They have software VSTs that will do that for you now.


Portishead has an ASTOUNDINGLY annoying habit of ADDING vinyl noise to their recordings. I guess they think it makes them cool, but it just totally ruins recordings they had put a lot of work into.

"Hey, check it out! We're simulating the sound of shiatty vinyl!"
 
2014-01-11 06:43:05 PM  
Along with shark, boob, and gun threads, these are my favorite on Fark. Besides learning stuff, I like to watch you digital/vinyl people biatchslap each other.
 
2014-01-11 06:47:45 PM  

Disgruntled Goat: Portishead has an ASTOUNDINGLY annoying habit of ADDING vinyl noise to their recordings. I guess they think it makes them cool, but it just totally ruins recordings they had put a lot of work into.

"Hey, check it out! We're simulating the sound of shiatty vinyl!"


IIRC correctly, Portishead pressed up acetates and used those during the mixing.
 
2014-01-11 06:48:35 PM  

neongoats: Well, hate to point this out, but most digital formats decimate the dynamic range of the music. I suppose if your prime listening is using earbuds in your cube at work, knock yourself out with your mp3s bro.

CD's sound awesome, and vinyl sounds great, and you can really tell on a halfway decent stereo how much better they both sound than your typical mp3 or aac of the same music.

/feels like the guy getting blown back in his chair listening to kyuss on vinyl


CDs are a digital format. An MP3 at a sufficiently high bitrate played through decent hardware should be indistinguishable.
 
2014-01-11 07:02:57 PM  

Laobaojun: Any Farker electrical engineer: how hard would it be to come up with a filter that degrades CD quality down to vinyl quality?  Seriously,  I am tired of old folks and effete ironists insisting that vinyl is better, when it should be easy to provide a "crappy vinyl sound" button next to the bass and treble.


There's an app out there that does just this. It plays your high-quality MP3 files with a vinyl filter that adds hiss, pops, and clicks.
 
2014-01-11 07:09:46 PM  

stoli n coke: sarajlewis83: My husband would love it if I would get rid of my music collection in "physical form". Can't/won't do it. There is something about owning the physical product that appeals to me. Also why I continue to buy real books rather than a Kindle, I guess.

I don't get the reasoning behind KIndles. I can't see having to make sure an electrical device is fully charged every time I want to read for a few hours, when I could just grab a book, find a light source, sit down, and read.


They hold a charge for months. That's the point of e-ink.
 
2014-01-11 07:13:29 PM  

Laobaojun: Any Farker electrical engineer: how hard would it be to come up with a filter that degrades CD quality down to vinyl quality?  Seriously,  I am tired of old folks and effete ironists insisting that vinyl is better, when it should be easy to provide a "crappy vinyl sound" button next to the bass and treble.


Yep. Compressed dynamic range, bass mixed I mono, harmonic distortion, etc.

If you like the feel of the large cover art, charm of flipping the disc, fine. But don't try and claim the sound is superior to CD (or SACD).
 
2014-01-11 07:15:28 PM  

LewDux: bunner [i228.photobucket.com image 135x111] mongbiohazard


Oh, grow up.  :  )
 
2014-01-11 07:16:45 PM  

ZeroCorpse: Laobaojun: Any Farker electrical engineer: how hard would it be to come up with a filter that degrades CD quality down to vinyl quality?  Seriously,  I am tired of old folks and effete ironists insisting that vinyl is better, when it should be easy to provide a "crappy vinyl sound" button next to the bass and treble.

There's an app out there that does just this. It plays your high-quality MP3 files with a vinyl filter that adds hiss, pops, and clicks.


Progress!!1!1
 
2014-01-11 07:18:27 PM  

Znuh: This:

[www.dankury.com image 850x570]


Yerp.
 
2014-01-11 07:26:33 PM  

FeedTheCollapse: Gunny Highway: FeedTheCollapse: stoli n coke: I don't get the reasoning behind KIndles. I can't see having to make sure an electrical device is fully charged every time I want to read for a few hours, when I could just grab a book, find a light source, sit down, and read

because a Kindle can easily hold thousands of books. If I finish one book, I can move onto the next, which is especially helpful if I'm not reading at home. Also I only have to charge my Kindle about once a week if I keep my Wi-Fi on, otherwise it can go weeks without recharging.

This was a giant debate in library school.  My answer was always, "why not both."  The Kindle is easier to read on the train, you can instandly purchase books, and some have a back light.  Physical books have all of their classic advantages.

Why does it have to be one or the other.

well, I wasn't really arguing that it has to be one or the other, just explaining the appeal of Kindle.

For what it's worth, I think that there does seem to be a heavy amount of ignorance on the Anti-Kindle side and with their argument for books not extending much deeper than "I like the smells." That said, I don't think the physical medium for books is ever really going to go away, but that has more to do with a desire for a physical product that can't be easily deleted than huffing books like they're scented markers or some shiat.


The anti-kindle arguments tend to be flat out ignorance or unrealistic worries, such as:

What happens if Amazon goes out of business -- because it's possible that one of the largest companies in the world may cease operation in a few years.

What happens if I breaking my e-reader, computer dies, etc. -- because Amazon doesn't let you redownload books and backing up your data is impossible.

You can't take notes in e-books, underline, etc.

I prefer schlepping 4 hard covers with me on vacation.

Why would I ever want the convince of having my whole library on my phone? I rather walk around with a book jammed into my pocket (I know someone who actually made that argument).
 
2014-01-11 07:39:34 PM  
Got these this past Wednesday at Vertigo Records in Ottawa.

scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net

/hot link
//can't remember does Fark love or loathe the Lips?
 
2014-01-11 11:04:40 PM  
i own a lot of vinyl, the music u listen to is just too shiatty to be released on vinyl so you don't
 
2014-01-11 11:09:27 PM  
OK, enough of the hipster hate. I know posting it on the 4th page of an old thread ain't going to do much, but I have to say it anyway. Leave the hipsters alone. Stop liking what I don't like, I know.

It's just lame. I can't imagine the level of a mind that sits around all day waiting for the chance to rag on people who could care less what you think about them. Go get a hobby. Jerk off or something.
 
2014-01-11 11:36:59 PM  

Girl Sailor: OK, enough of the hipster hate. I know posting it on the 4th page of an old thread ain't going to do much, but I have to say it anyway. Leave the hipsters alone. Stop liking what I don't like, I know.

It's just lame. I can't imagine the level of a mind that sits around all day waiting for the chance to rag on people who could care less what you think about them. Go get a hobby. Jerk off or something.


It's not so much hipster hate, it's more about how some people look down on other who don't share their likes. Like I said earlier in this thread, I don't give a shiat if you like vinyl records or craft beer that costs $7 a bottle, just stop trying to act as if it's somehow superior to what anyone else likes.
 
2014-01-12 01:16:43 AM  

mongbiohazard: bunner: frepnog: People who carry the opinion that vinyl is superior to cd however are unfortunately wrong in their opinion, and it can be scientifically proven that they are, in fact, wrong.

Some people can sleep in a silent room.  Others require white noise.

Its a similar phenomenon.

I have no idea why you're so virulently invested into this meaningless argument about apples and oranges, actually.  But I've been performing, recording and mixing live shows and studio recordings for three decades and you are seriously full of moose crap.  No offense.  Me?  I got no pony in this heat.  The artist can request that the two track be released on wax cylinder, if the check clears.  But I'll lay you  1,000.00 you never heard pristine vinyl of a well mixed record played back on a really brilliant system.  And, frankly, so what?  Seriously, man are the atheist threads closed?  You gotta troll this with your great pronouncements?  I guess it's a cheaper hobby than bar blowhard.  Carry on, Aristophanes.   :  )

[images.cdn.bigcartel.com image 850x595]


Is it just my lazy eye, or is that image very blurry and mostly unreadable?
 
2014-01-12 03:01:12 AM  

LectertheChef: Is it just my lazy eye, or is that image very blurry and mostly unreadable?


No, it's small and illegible.  But, see, when you're trolling somebody - and poorly - you have to count on a few assumptions.  One, that your pissant authority pose is being bought, hook like and sinker.  Two, your mark is *this close* to losing their rag for your lip biting, dink touching enjoyment.  I'm sure he thought I was squinting at that, downloading it and loading it into a graphics editor, trying in vain to resize it and find out what was "wrong" with me according to his paper towel psych PhD.  No, seriously.  This is how people who come here to fart loudly and see who complains about the smell actually think.  It's a little pathetic, but I'm not a certified counselor, so I just tell them to f*ck off.   :  )
 
2014-01-12 03:19:37 AM  
So what does everyone think about circumcision?
 
2014-01-12 03:27:42 AM  
It works well on cheese rinds.
 
2014-01-12 08:10:31 AM  

jj325: For those of us old enough to remember, there was a time when vinyl could sound better than CD's.  I jumped on the CD player bandwagon early on, and was massively disappointed when I started buying replacement copies of some of my favorite vinyl on the new format.  Even with a good player and stereo a lot of the original transfers coming out back then sounded horrible.  I remember distinctly my Led Zeppelin II cd sounding like I was listening with earmuffs on.  There's been a lot of advancements since then.


Yup - early on record companies madly scrambled to get stuff to CD and used 3rd generation masters, often vinyl masters with the RIAA curve in them that had to be re-eq'd. Awful stuff. And, the A/D and D/A technology was very primitive in the 80s.

Today you can buy a DAC that can do 24/192 (ridiculous overkill) for a couple hundred bucks, and they sound fan-farking-tabulous.

99% of the sound of any recording is the recording (mics & mic placement, studio, etc), mixing and mastering. Why people spend so much time arguing about the 1% that is the format baffles me, especially when I see pictures of so-called audiphile listening rooms with their floorstanding speakers crammed into the corners of a 10x10x8 listening room.
 
2014-01-12 08:11:31 AM  
Oh, and you haven't heard LZII until you've heard the original Robert Ludwig mastering on clean vinyl. Prepare to empty your wallet to acquire one.
 
2014-01-12 11:09:19 AM  
Cassettes had replaced vinyl when I was a kid (I'm 34 now), so I never really did the vinyl thing. I loved CDs as a replacement for tapes. Cleaner sound and at the time we were told that if you take care of them, they'll last forever.

Once I got an mp3 player, I went off into mp3 land. However, I've recently started going back to CDs. The convenience of the mp3 is nice, but I really can tell the difference in quality when I have good headphones on.  Now I've taken to converting CDs to FLAC and going that route.
 
2014-01-12 12:17:58 PM  

Orgasmatron138: Cassettes had replaced vinyl when I was a kid (I'm 34 now), so I never really did the vinyl thing. I loved CDs as a replacement for tapes. Cleaner sound and at the time we were told that if you take care of them, they'll last forever.

Once I got an mp3 player, I went off into mp3 land. However, I've recently started going back to CDs. The convenience of the mp3 is nice, but I really can tell the difference in quality when I have good headphones on.  Now I've taken to converting CDs to FLAC and going that route.




I just rip CDs to wav. files so I don't have to bother putting the CD into my computer. Hard drive space is cheap these days. But I'm a stick in the mud about buying CDs instead of buying MP3s.
 
2014-01-12 01:04:28 PM  

Repo Man: Orgasmatron138: Cassettes had replaced vinyl when I was a kid (I'm 34 now), so I never really did the vinyl thing. I loved CDs as a replacement for tapes. Cleaner sound and at the time we were told that if you take care of them, they'll last forever.

Once I got an mp3 player, I went off into mp3 land. However, I've recently started going back to CDs. The convenience of the mp3 is nice, but I really can tell the difference in quality when I have good headphones on.  Now I've taken to converting CDs to FLAC and going that route.

I just rip CDs to wav. files so I don't have to bother putting the CD into my computer. Hard drive space is cheap these days. But I'm a stick in the mud about buying CDs instead of buying MP3s.


mp3s are like the fast food of music. Great for utility, but if I'm home for the evening I want quality.
 
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