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(TreeHugger)   Wait, are you trying to tell me doctors and Big Pharma are teaming up to tell the American public not to buy multivitamins? Say it ain't so   (treehugger.com) divider line 170
    More: Obvious, Americans, diabetes management, Medicine study, dietary supplements  
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9057 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Jan 2014 at 10:40 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-11 12:33:24 PM  

rzrwiresunrise: StoPPeRmobile: rzrwiresunrise: muddythinker: I worked at the FTC, which regulates US advertising.  Our staff used to bring supplement and diet aid cases against retailers & manufacturers making phony claims.  In bringing these cases, we had to hire top nutrition scientists from good universities as experts, and they told us 20 years ago multi-vitamins are a waste of money.  Only specific vitamins help, such as if one has a vitamin D deficiency.

I figure anything OTC that makes my pee BRIGHT yellow is proly unnecessary at the very least.

The sun makes your pee bright yellow?

Watch out for cancer.

Uh, no. Multi-vitamins will. A clue that it's simply passing thru my body as waste.


That's just from riboflavin (B2). It's added to most breakfast cereals. Being water soluble, the excess which isn't used flushes out.
 
2014-01-11 12:35:36 PM  

Man On A Mission: Sybarite: Yes, we certainly wouldn't want any "official-sounding data" to steer you toward proven highly profitable methods of treating diseases and away from chicanery long-proven vitamin and mineral supplements.

FTFY.


[citation needed]
 
2014-01-11 12:35:56 PM  

darwinpolice: tl;dr version: Don't listen to medical doctors and research companies, they're just out to make tons of money hand over fist.  You should listen to multivitamin production companies, which are also a multi-billion dollar industry.

I guess it's just hard to maintain a satisfying level of smugness about taking medical advice from trained professionals.


I'd say, 'Thank God we have our government looking out for us....'

Except they've already sold out.  I'm surprised Pepsi hasn't purchased it's way into the FDA's food pyramid.
 
2014-01-11 12:36:26 PM  
Your blog has glaring inconsistencies and just plain sucks.
 
2014-01-11 12:36:45 PM  

Bumblefark: EmmaLou: What ever happened to just including fruits and vegetables in your diet?

We had my wife's family over for the holidays -- the whole clan, for about 3 weeks. (*shudder*) Every dinner I served included at least one side of vegetables, often two. And not weird foodie stuff; just the standards, like green beans, corn, carrots, green salad, etc, prepared in the usual ways.

Never saw them eat a single veggie, neither the children nor the adults. I would have bothered to have been horrified, but that's probably not very atypical, nowadays...


The adults are responsible for themselves and will one day sleep in the bed they're making, but you have to feel bad for the kids because that's when good or bad habits get made.  When I was a child, my mother made sure we almost always had at least two sides of vegetables on our plates as kids, and we weren't permitted seconds of the meat or potatoes unless we had finished all of the vegetables first.  As an adult, I probably eat a head of lettuce each week just in the form of green salads with dinner, and that's hardly the extent of my veggie consumption.  I drink mineral water, but take no supplements.

/On the other hand, I also drink a bit too much beer, but I learned that habit a bit later on in life
 
2014-01-11 12:39:38 PM  

AMonkey'sUncle: FunkOut: AMonkey'sUncle: A Terrible Human: Vitamins are a crock of shiat. If you buy into them you're farking stupid and not eating properly if you're so deficient in vitamins.
/Same with that homeopathy garbage.

What gets me is this new gummy vitamin chew for adults. No more hard-to-swallow pills! Good grief, we're getting soft.

It's primarily aimed at people with bad teeth and people with swallowing issues. A number of people with throat issues who have to use CPAP machines also have issues with choking on pills and certain kinds of food. And we're not talking about just really heavy people, some people have congenital defects with their palate and esophagus the cause snoring, sleep apnea, etc.

No problem understanding those situations, but the chews are marketed to young adults, if you go by the ads.


If people are more inclined to do something regularly if it's not unpleasant experience, how is that a bad thing?

Or are you the type to insist on getting a urethra examination via a rigid cystoscope rather than the modern fiber optic tubes?
 
2014-01-11 12:45:54 PM  

brantgoose: Most dietary recommendations are based on studies of deficiencies--people who can't absorb a nutrient. They are minimum levels, not optimum levels. Many of these studies were done by the military or in other institutional environments to determine what the minimum needs of a soldier, say, were, or how much of certain nutrients was safe--which is to say to set an upper limit on nutrients which are toxic or counterproductive in large doses.

I therefore believe that it is worth while taking supplements of many minerals and vitamins. However, it is probably true that a person eating a healthy diet does not need supplements and that many supplements don't do much good--or harm--in reasonable doses.

I look on my multivitamin as insurance, and the other vitamins I take as attempts to ensure an optimal level.

In other words, I am sane.

While pharmaceutical industries are not to be trusted (they are for-profit corporations, not philanthropists, so their advice may well be tainted), most doctors are reasonably honest, and variable in their skills, knowledge and common sense. A lot of older doctors haven't keep up with the medical science, while a lot of doctors in general are twits. Remember, half of them graduated in the bottom of their class and are only getting more ignorant and stupid with the passage of time.

All the same, I would say that vitamins are mostly harmless if you follow the directions and don't take stupid mega-doses. The alternative health industries are even more full of BS than the scientific health industries.

Studies will fight the benefits or non-benefits of various nutrients back and forth forever. As revealed by recent studies, most research papers are not read by anybody, much of the data disappears (which means the wheel is constantly being reinvented, and the media distorts and hypes every little thing. In short, good information and analysis are hard to come by.

Try ignoring 90% of everything in print or on the web.


This
 
2014-01-11 12:47:14 PM  

NutWrench: jaytkay: Man On A Mission: long-proven vitamin and mineral supplements

Proven when? By who?

By folks who didn't get scurvy and rickets?


This whole time sailors were preventing scurvy by keeping limes on board, when all they had to do was pop a multivitamin.

/why eat food when you can pop pills, amirite
 
2014-01-11 12:51:21 PM  

rzrwiresunrise: How did we ever survive without multi-vitamins for thousands of years? By eating good food, not junk food, you say? Funny, sounds like something my DOCTOR would say.


The strong & rich had no problem with that, they had meat, milk, blood of babies and virgins & etc avail. everyday, and slaves to bring them all sorts of special veg & fruits.
The commoners had a short lifespan, very poor diet, marked by vitamin deficiencies that sharply limited their brain and physique, at constant risk from multiple infections and illnesses. Infant mortality was very high. Their ability to fight back, win freedom or accumulate even a little wealth was almost non-existent.

The rich and strong preyed upon them for pretty girls and other genetic selections [like breeding livestock] and let the rest do or die.
The rich worked very hard to keep them at the edge of starvation at all times.
This current trend is history repeating itself...

Now we have a similar situation, the poor have a very unhealthy diet, sometimes by choice. It is a good way to keep them weak and dependent.
The use of multivitamins can go a long way towards correcting a poor diet.

In an emergency where food supplies are limited or foraging [eating weeds etc] must be done, multivitamins can preserve health and mental functions, morale & etc.

One main reason people overeat: the body is craving a nutrient or a few, and the body will command to eat until that need is fulfilled.

I suggest anyone who is prudent own a 3 year supply of multi vit, multi mineral, and B-12 for themselves and anyone they care about.
 A stash like that is physically small, costs maybe 100 bucks or less per person, excellent CHEAP insurance against starvation. You could eat nothing but potatoes or weeds and still maintain health.

No one with higher cognitive functions is gonna believe the propaganda. [15% of curr population]
Those who live like sheep, and can not originate thoughts of their own, or manage free will, they are doomed to a short, obese, sick life. Excellent slave stock.[livestock]
 
2014-01-11 12:51:53 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: NutWrench: jaytkay: Man On A Mission: long-proven vitamin and mineral supplements

Proven when? By who?

By folks who didn't get scurvy and rickets?

This whole time sailors were preventing scurvy by keeping limes on board, when all they had to do was pop a multivitamin.

/why eat food when you can pop pills, amirite


I like to eat my penicillin on a piece of mouldy bread instead of those mass marketed mainstream pills.
 
2014-01-11 12:58:15 PM  

JSTACAT: Those who live like sheep, and can not originate thoughts of their own, or manage free will, they are doomed to a short, obese, sick life. Excellent slave stock.


"does not play well with others"
 
2014-01-11 12:59:05 PM  
There might be something to this.

All I know is that I take quality vitamins every day and my health, energy, moods & life is way better than the years I didn't take them. I think I'll stick to what works for me.
 
2014-01-11 01:02:56 PM  
Why is it that anyone who claims "Big Pharma" only wants to profit upon illness, also happily spends HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS A MONTH on shiat they don't need for ailments they don't have? But surely the kindly hippies at the health food store only have the customer's well-being in mind? And not, say, enormous profits. I imagine some of the low-level employees on the floor believe their own bullshiat, but the store owners most certainly do not.
 
2014-01-11 01:05:25 PM  

Skunkwolf: Has anyone said "If it had any measurable effect on the human body it would be a drug and regulated." yet?

Because it's true.

It's a food product.

In Canada you are not allowed to say it does anything.

Good old Memorial University, making a fudged up report (one of the biggest scandals in science) become dogma for the industrial food byproduct consumer.


Yes, they can  They can make claims, as long as it is done according to the monograph made by Health Canada, under the Uses and Purpose sections

e.g.:   Seal Oil

Statement(s) to the effect of:

For products providing 100-3,000 mg eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) + docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) + docosapentaenoic acid (DPA), per day:

Source of omega-3 fatty acids (Wu  et al. 2012; Simopoulos 2007; Oh 2005; FCC 7; Brox  et al. 2001; Simopoulos 1999) for the maintenance of good health
Source of eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA), docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) and docosapentaenoic acid (DPA) (Wu  et al. 2012; Simopoulos 2007; Oh 2005; FCC 7; Brox  et al. 2001; Simopoulos 1999) for the maintenance of good health.

For products providing 150-2,000 mg eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) + docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) + docosapentaenoic acid (DPA) including at least 150 mg DHA, per day (maximum doses of EPA + DHA in Table 1 below will apply):

Helps to support the development of the brain, eyes and nerves in children up to 12 years of age (Ryan and Nelson 2008; Marszalek and Lodish 2005; Haag 2003; FCC 7; Giedd  et al. 1999; Mills 1999).

For products providing 1000-3,000 mg eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) + docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) + docosapentaenoic acid (DPA) including at least 340 mg EPA, per day:

Helps to reduce serum triglycerides/triacylglycerols (Mann  et al. 2010; Meyer  et al. 2009).
Helps support cardiovascular health (Mann  et al. 2010; Meyer  et al. 2009).
 
2014-01-11 01:05:38 PM  
Are we gonna have a discussion, or is there just gonna be a monster sarcasm rally?
 
2014-01-11 01:06:36 PM  
Depends on diet and culture. 

I'm not a true believer in homeopathy however I do remember reading studies about Vitamin C actively improving our immune systems-  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16373990 

Also we have given our soldiers supplemental vitamin A to improve night vision...Many people who cannot make it outside benefit from vitamin D, and B12 supplementation in the elderly populace is becoming more common.

And most OBs tend to keep their patient's on prenatal vitamins for the folic acid benefits which may or may not have other medical usages.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folic_acid 

Patented pharmaceutial brand name drugs versus a 3 cent a day multivitamin.
 
2014-01-11 01:06:51 PM  

StoPPeRmobile: JSTACAT: Those who live like sheep, and can not originate thoughts of their own, or manage free will, they are doomed to a short, obese, sick life. Excellent slave stock.

"does not play well with others"


Well, to be fair, in olden times, i would still be the top predator.
Cute my way into the palace, supplant the royal son, kill the king, etc.
done it so often...
The "playin" is food prep; adrenaline  tenderizes the meat.
 
2014-01-11 01:11:02 PM  

KawaiiNot: There might be something to this.

All I know is that I take quality vitamins every day and my health, energy, moods & life is way better than the years I didn't take them. I think I'll stick to what works for me.


Same here, i am my own Doc. not ashamed to borrow, test and analyse-apply research of others.
 
2014-01-11 01:13:26 PM  

BigLuca: SkerriNinja:
Oh my god, this. I work in an investigational drug pharmacy. I read the protocols and wonder how on earth people are going to make money on some of this stuff. But then I realize that when we raise issues with sponsors, we're doing all the legwork for them. God forbid I get a pharmacy manual written by people with pharmacy knowledge. It's always written by someone with no inherent knowledge of what a pharmacist actually does.

Does you company hire any pharmD's or MD's at all for anything? Just curious.


I work at a medical university. We are the pharmacy that maintains the investigational drugs on trial throughout the uni. We are part of the National Cancer Institute, and have been doing research for over 30 years. We have hundreds of MDs conducting research, and we have clinical pharmacists as well as the 3 that work in my department in particular.
 
2014-01-11 01:15:55 PM  

Your Neighborhood Pessimist: AMonkey'sUncle: FunkOut: AMonkey'sUncle: A Terrible Human: Vitamins are a crock of shiat. If you buy into them you're farking stupid and not eating properly if you're so deficient in vitamins.
/Same with that homeopathy garbage.

What gets me is this new gummy vitamin chew for adults. No more hard-to-swallow pills! Good grief, we're getting soft.

It's primarily aimed at people with bad teeth and people with swallowing issues. A number of people with throat issues who have to use CPAP machines also have issues with choking on pills and certain kinds of food. And we're not talking about just really heavy people, some people have congenital defects with their palate and esophagus the cause snoring, sleep apnea, etc.

No problem understanding those situations, but the chews are marketed to young adults, if you go by the ads.

If people are more inclined to do something regularly if it's not unpleasant experience, how is that a bad thing?

Or are you the type to insist on getting a urethra examination via a rigid cystoscope rather than the modern fiber optic tubes?


Can this be one thread that's not about a personal kink?

Jeez, the pervs around here!
 
2014-01-11 01:17:07 PM  
An article about how modern medicine is involved in a conspiracy against "far more effective" and "natural" remedies? On a site called "treehugger"?

This is my shocked face.

/I'm willing to bet I find at least one anti-vax article on there.
//Bonus points if they endorse the use of colloidal silver as an antibiotic.
 
2014-01-11 01:17:42 PM  

Astorix: rzrwiresunrise: How did we ever survive without multi-vitamins for thousands of years? By eating good food, not junk food, you say? Funny, sounds like something my DOCTOR would say.

The whole vitamin, supplement, dietary aid and herb industry is the most unregulated and chock full of bad science, pseudo science, and actual harm. Remember the rash of deaths from ephedra? Then there is ginseng, which has been shown to cause blood pressure spikes. Recently a threat was posted about green tea extract causing liver damage.

As much as I hate big pharma, I distrust the lack of oversight in the multi-billion selling "herb and supplement" industry.


Yeah, there is no science that supports herbal supplement benefits. Wait...what...

And of course we all know no one every gets hurt by drugs pushed by the Pharma Industry.
 
2014-01-11 01:19:53 PM  

Primum non nocere: I'm a physician, and here's my prescription for you Farkers:

How 'bout just eat healthy?!?

Study after study demonstrates that when you strip-out the micronutrient from its source, the benefit is lost. Taking fish-oil capsules is of no benefit, but eating fish is. Taking vitamin E alone is of no benefit, but eating broccoli and sunflower seeds is. Etc.

But I know, I'm just a pawn in this Grand Conspiracy.


Of course *you'd* say that while rolling around in your giant pile of free pharmaceutical company pens.
 
2014-01-11 01:20:00 PM  

azxj: The one thing (so I've heard) that a multivitamin is good for is passing a drug test.  They'll fail you if your pee is too clear, so drink a ton of water and then take a multivitamin to color your pee.


That worked 15 year ago, but these days they check for protein and stuff, so your best case with that is that you'd get an 'inconclusive', which is basically a fail, or they'd want you to retest. Lose-Lose either way.
 
2014-01-11 01:44:14 PM  
yes, most doctors went into medicine to do good and most have done extremely well.
 
2014-01-11 01:52:04 PM  

A Terrible Human: Vitamins are a crock of shiat. If you buy into them you're farking stupid and not eating properly if you're so deficient in vitamins.
/Same with that homeopathy garbage.


Yeah!  Better living through chemicals instead!

/enjoy your cancer
 
2014-01-11 01:58:29 PM  
Society tells us that we should work at being healthy, but neglects to define 'healthy'. (What various vitamins and minerals do, how much you need, what the signs of deficiencies or overdoses are, and what foods they come from sure wasn't covered in my high school.) People are busy but they want to do something to make themselves 'healthy'. They take a multivitamin because it is relatively cheap and easy and  makes up for a variety of deficiencies (whether they have them or not) due to a poor diet. It allows them to feel good about 'doing something healthy' with little thought or effort.

dr;tl: multivitamins are used by people to lazy or busy to independently look up what all the various vitamins and minerals do.


JSTACAT: KawaiiNot: There might be something to this.

All I know is that I take quality vitamins every day and my health, energy, moods & life is way better than the years I didn't take them. I think I'll stick to what works for me.

Same here, i am my own Doc. not ashamed to borrow, test and analyse-apply research of others.


This
Everyone should be responsible for their own health. This idea that you shouldn't do anything unless a doctor tells you to is damaging to the public health and wastes the time of doctors who have more serious things to pay attention to (I need a doctor to tell me to stay in bed with the flu rather than go to work/school - really?). If you are having health issues (not 'I want to be young again' or 'I want to be skinny without diet or exercise'), research them. When I am thinking of taking a supplement, I look at what data there is to support it and what against it. I look at what the signs are for deficiencies (and make sure I have them) and what the overdose symptoms are (so I can watch for them). If I take a supplement I watch for an effect. If it doesn't have one, I stop taking it. This isn't rocket science.
 
2014-01-11 02:05:12 PM  
Buddy of mine is an OB/GYN. He once made a comment about how worthless a particular vitamin is. Now my ex-wife's uncle writes grants for a medical school specifically about vitamins and nutrition. He is extremely enthusiastic about that same vitamin based on specific study outcomes.

I brought up those studies and asked him his thoughts about the results. Did he disagree with the methodologies or the interpretation of the results?

Turns out that in Med school he had one class on nutrition in his first semester and that was it. And he had seen it mostly as a waste of time. And he had no intention of reading any research on nutrition because it was a waste of time keeping up on any research.

That floored me. He is the primary care physician for a lot of women-- when they want to lose weight he is the doctor they are advised to talk with first to make sure they don't endanger themselves.

But apparently doctors don't get training on this stuff. Sometimes they just parrot what they are told by various lobbyist and trade groups and don't care what even legit peer-reviewed research at major medical schools have to say.

My own doctor admitted that he pretty much knew the symptoms of scurvy, beri-beri and other high profile pathologies relating to deficiencies and didn't even try to keep up with nutrition science. He consults with a nutritionist about deficiencies in lab results before presenting them to the patient and that's it.

In other words for years now I haven't felt doctors to be competent to discuss these things. They don't have the training, and unless they have a book to sell they don't do the research on their own.

/learned more about nutrition and health in a single anthropology class than a doctor learns in Med school
//that MD doesn't grant omniscience
 
2014-01-11 02:12:37 PM  

SkerriNinja: We are the pharmacy that maintains the investigational drugs


My brain parsed this as "recreational drugs", which was a lot more amusing.

I wonder whether anyone's done a 3-month double-blind study of a random group of people who weren't taking any vitamins. These people would get either a multivitamin or a placebo, and each person did a daily "How I feel right now" report. Would you find any statistically significant difference between the placebo group and the multivitamin group? How about if you gave each person a physical before and after the 3-month period? Would there be any differences in these things? Or would there be too much statistical noise from other crap? Heck. I could do this experiment with a sample size of just me, but I don't think it'd provide much that was useful.

Theodore Dalrymple, a British M.D., worked in a prison for a while, and he said something like, "When we started giving prisoners daily vitamins, the number of discipline problems and people acting like dumbasses decreased" in Our Culture, What's Left of It. OK, OK, one guy's report != data.
 
2014-01-11 02:30:00 PM  

sno man: jake_lex: Hey, if you take a lot of supplements, your piss will be loaded with vitamins and minerals, and thus you'll be recycling them back into the ecosystem!  It's a win-win!

hehe... That's all we need, 'roided up Asian Carp.


It'll pass through their system, too.
 
2014-01-11 02:30:46 PM  

supayoda: An article about how modern medicine is involved in a conspiracy against "far more effective" and "natural" remedies? On a site called "treehugger"?

This is my shocked face.

/I'm willing to bet I find at least one anti-vax article on there.
//Bonus points if they endorse the use of colloidal silver as an antibiotic.


Just a small caveat: silver compounds are used extensively in modern Western medicine (burn care, ET tubes, catheters, topical ulcer management, etc.) so while oral silver as an antibiotic has been out of favor since WWI, don't discount other compounds.

/worked in burn ICU
 
2014-01-11 02:30:56 PM  
My own experience with supplements:

1)  SAM-e has been extremely effective at treating/preventing my depressive episodes.

2)  St. John's Wort has had no noticeable effect.

3)  Valerian gives me the craziest nightmares.  Not doing that again.

4)  3mg of melatonin makes me a zombie.  1 mg helps me get to sleep.

5)  5HTP has had no effect.

6)  B-complex supps have been recommended to me because of my stress/anxiety issues.  The only effect I've noticed is really funny pee colors.

7)  GABA gives me really really bad headaches.

8) Ginko biloba has made a significant reduction in my tinitus.

9)  Mineral supplements have made no effect of my health/quality of life.

10)  My wife really really hates the number of bottles I have in the cabinet.
 
2014-01-11 02:39:00 PM  

BolloxReader: Buddy of mine is an OB/GYN. He once made a comment about how worthless a particular vitamin is. Now my ex-wife's uncle writes grants for a medical school specifically about vitamins and nutrition. He is extremely enthusiastic about that same vitamin based on specific study outcomes.

I brought up those studies and asked him his thoughts about the results. Did he disagree with the methodologies or the interpretation of the results?

Turns out that in Med school he had one class on nutrition in his first semester and that was it. And he had seen it mostly as a waste of time. And he had no intention of reading any research on nutrition because it was a waste of time keeping up on any research.

That floored me. He is the primary care physician for a lot of women-- when they want to lose weight he is the doctor they are advised to talk with first to make sure they don't endanger themselves.

But apparently doctors don't get training on this stuff. Sometimes they just parrot what they are told by various lobbyist and trade groups and don't care what even legit peer-reviewed research at major medical schools have to say.

My own doctor admitted that he pretty much knew the symptoms of scurvy, beri-beri and other high profile pathologies relating to deficiencies and didn't even try to keep up with nutrition science. He consults with a nutritionist about deficiencies in lab results before presenting them to the patient and that's it.

In other words for years now I haven't felt doctors to be competent to discuss these things. They don't have the training, and unless they have a book to sell they don't do the research on their own.

/learned more about nutrition and health in a single anthropology class than a doctor learns in Med school
//that MD doesn't grant omniscience


Generally, you're right. During training physicians are exposed to an unbelievable number of medical conditions, and it's certainly impossible to be an expert in them all. Ex: don't ask a dermatologist about management of Cushing's disease...he hasn't seen it since med school. That being said, if your friend is a primary care doctor and doesn't know or care enough about nutrition, then he is not doing his due diligence. That preventative type of medicine is core to his practice. There is a reason doctors are required to do a tremendous amount of CME (continuing medical education) to maintain their licensure. On top of that almost every specialty Board requires re-upping their Board certification every few years, which pushes the doctor to learn even MORE about their specialty than basic CME does. Education doesn't stop with the diploma.
 
2014-01-11 02:42:47 PM  
fazapops.com
Would this man lie to you?
 
2014-01-11 02:43:01 PM  
Assuming you're not eating some sort of weird "all white castle" diet, why in the world would your body need a multivitamin? A normal diet provides everything you need and you just end up pissing out any excess.

/took a multivitamin for over a decade everyday, still got sick and noticing no damned difference since having been off it for years
 
2014-01-11 02:45:09 PM  
My doctor recommended a multi-vitamin (but not one of those mega-dose vitamins) because of medication I am on which acts as a diuretic and causes me to lose some vitamins and minerals more quickly.  But there is a difference between a regular vitamin and some of the quack vitamins where people recommend huge doses of things, some of which can be toxic.  There is a lot of stupidity in this area where folks say "its all natural so how can it hurt you" and "more is obviously better" and actually poison people.
 
2014-01-11 02:47:26 PM  

BolloxReader: Buddy of mine is an OB/GYN. He once made a comment about how worthless a particular vitamin is...In other words for years now I haven't felt doctors to be competent to discuss these things.


Wow, you really proved the worth of dietary supplements by telling an anecdote about a gynecologist's comment about one vitamin.
 
2014-01-11 02:53:22 PM  

BunkyBrewman: Sybarite: "Enter 'vitamins are useless' articles. The more you're presented with official-sounding data that erodes your confidence in self-care, the more you'll relinquish yourself to the seriously dysfunctional U.S. health care system. And that means the more you'll rely on surgery, prescription drugs, and health insurance."

Yes, we certainly wouldn't want any "official-sounding data" to steer you toward proven methods of treating diseases and away from chicanery.

[gogd.tjs-labs.com image 850x1090]


And Time says people were all talking about global cooling in the 70s.

This is an indictment of the popular press, not doctors.
 
2014-01-11 02:54:56 PM  
Can someone explain to me why, if vitamins are really so effective, why Big Pharma doesn't just produce those and rebrand them at a huge mark-up instead of spending billions of dollars researching new drugs?

/already know the answer
//It's because vitamin's aren't as effective as real drugs
 
2014-01-11 03:00:55 PM  

vicioushobbit: Astorix: rzrwiresunrise: How did we ever survive without multi-vitamins for thousands of years? By eating good food, not junk food, you say? Funny, sounds like something my DOCTOR would say.

The whole vitamin, supplement, dietary aid and herb industry is the most unregulated and chock full of bad science, pseudo science, and actual harm. Remember the rash of deaths from ephedra? Then there is ginseng, which has been shown to cause blood pressure spikes. Recently a threat was posted about green tea extract causing liver damage.
These extracts and concentrations are unnatural and the manufacturers often cheat by putting unnatural things into them.

Traditional Chinese Medicines one of the worst offenders.

As much as I hate big pharma, I distrust the lack of oversight in the multi-billion selling "herb and supplement" industry.

Having worked within the herbal supplement industry on as an internal compliance officer, I heartily agree with you.  Big pharma is an industry, and like any industry will lie to its consumers to make money.  The dietary supplement industry is no better, but they sure as hell will pretend to be.


The only thing I hate more than a liar is a projectionist. And most of the herbal supplement industry is projectionism writ large. Even if "Big Pharma" does do everything that you say, that doesn't mean you don't do it, too. And lying about your projectionism is the top of a three layer deceit cake that I don't wanna eat.
 
2014-01-11 03:03:19 PM  
If I don't take my calcium I get the worst nocturnal leg cramps.  And since I started taking vitamin C I hardly ever get a cold, so there's that too.
 
2014-01-11 03:11:53 PM  

EmmaLou: Bumblefark: EmmaLou: What ever happened to just including fruits and vegetables in your diet?

We had my wife's family over for the holidays -- the whole clan, for about 3 weeks. (*shudder*) Every dinner I served included at least one side of vegetables, often two. And not weird foodie stuff; just the standards, like green beans, corn, carrots, green salad, etc, prepared in the usual ways.

Never saw them eat a single veggie, neither the children nor the adults. I would have bothered to have been horrified, but that's probably not very atypical, nowadays...

I was visiting my in laws with my mom and step father. They served a nice fresh garden salad with dinner, and my step father proclaimed loudly "I don't eat salad." That's probably why his heart function is at 20%, he has the diabeetus, and he weighs about 400 pounds.

I don't understand the dislike of vegetables that so many people seem to have.


Most people would rather have their veggies in chip form, it seems.
 
2014-01-11 03:13:34 PM  
Does Wonder Bread build strong bodies 8 ways or 12?
 
2014-01-11 03:16:47 PM  

LoneWolf343: Can someone explain to me why, if vitamins are really so effective, why Big Pharma doesn't just produce those and rebrand them at a huge mark-up instead of spending billions of dollars researching new drugs?

/already know the answer
//It's because vitamin's aren't as effective as real drugs


Do you not understand what supplement means? It contributes or enhances. The body has requirements that need to be met. If you are missing any, the supplement provides what is missing. Anything more, your body removes.

Why would they deny themselves one form of revenue for another? They can make money on both because both are useful when used as intended. You don't take your limp-dick pills when you have hemorrhoid flare-up after all. If you start seeing signs of vitamin c deficiency, you don't use Visine. If you can't get your vitamins naturally, you take a supplement.

Vitamins are just as effective for their intended purpose.
 
2014-01-11 03:17:27 PM  

Robin Hoodie: I take fish oil, St John's Wort, Multi-vitamins, Vit D supplement, Vit C supplement,  cherry flavor Flintstone kids,  small rocks, raw egg shells, acai berry extract, and baby aspirin, and I am never sick. So obviously I've found the perfect combination of health supplements, studies be damned!

/also i eat the one volcano burrito each month for a colon cleanse


We could use more than a single data point to evaluate your claim.
 
2014-01-11 03:31:52 PM  
Terrible Old Man:
/took a multivitamin for over a decade everyday, still got sick and noticing no damned difference since having been off it for years

However, you drank mucho alcohol then and now, amirite?
Alcohol is well known for its abilities to destroy organs, muscle tissue, nerve cells, complex proteins and... vitamins.
Alcohol is a germ killer, and you are made of germs [cells]
 
2014-01-11 03:34:56 PM  

ReverendJynxed: LoneWolf343: Can someone explain to me why, if vitamins are really so effective, why Big Pharma doesn't just produce those and rebrand them at a huge mark-up instead of spending billions of dollars researching new drugs?

/already know the answer
//It's because vitamin's aren't as effective as real drugs

Do you not understand what supplement means? It contributes or enhances. The body has requirements that need to be met. If you are missing any, the supplement provides what is missing. Anything more, your body removes.

Why would they deny themselves one form of revenue for another? They can make money on both because both are useful when used as intended. You don't take your limp-dick pills when you have hemorrhoid flare-up after all. If you start seeing signs of vitamin c deficiency, you don't use Visine. If you can't get your vitamins naturally, you take a supplement.

Vitamins are just as effective for their intended purpose.


If you live in an industrialized country and eat a reasonable variety of things, chances are that you don't have a vitamin deficiency, at least not so much that vitamins supplements are needed to correct it.
 
2014-01-11 03:52:28 PM  

LoneWolf343: ReverendJynxed: LoneWolf343: Can someone explain to me why, if vitamins are really so effective, why Big Pharma doesn't just produce those and rebrand them at a huge mark-up instead of spending billions of dollars researching new drugs?

/already know the answer
//It's because vitamin's aren't as effective as real drugs

Do you not understand what supplement means? It contributes or enhances. The body has requirements that need to be met. If you are missing any, the supplement provides what is missing. Anything more, your body removes.

Why would they deny themselves one form of revenue for another? They can make money on both because both are useful when used as intended. You don't take your limp-dick pills when you have hemorrhoid flare-up after all. If you start seeing signs of vitamin c deficiency, you don't use Visine. If you can't get your vitamins naturally, you take a supplement.

Vitamins are just as effective for their intended purpose.

If you live in an industrialized country and eat a reasonable variety of things, chances are that you don't have a vitamin deficiency, at least not so much that vitamins supplements are needed to correct it.


That doesn't take away that they have an intended purpose and are useful for such.
 
2014-01-11 04:40:22 PM  
Pssst.... Big Pharma makes vitamins too.
 
2014-01-11 04:48:54 PM  
The derp is strong in this thread.
 
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