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(TreeHugger)   Wait, are you trying to tell me doctors and Big Pharma are teaming up to tell the American public not to buy multivitamins? Say it ain't so   (treehugger.com) divider line 170
    More: Obvious, Americans, diabetes management, Medicine study, dietary supplements  
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9052 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Jan 2014 at 10:40 AM (40 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



170 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-01-11 07:50:17 AM  
"Enter 'vitamins are useless' articles. The more you're presented with official-sounding data that erodes your confidence in self-care, the more you'll relinquish yourself to the seriously dysfunctional U.S. health care system. And that means the more you'll rely on surgery, prescription drugs, and health insurance."

Yes, we certainly wouldn't want any "official-sounding data" to steer you toward proven methods of treating diseases and away from chicanery.
 
2014-01-11 08:01:19 AM  

Sybarite: Yes, we certainly wouldn't want any "official-sounding data" to steer you toward proven highly profitable methods of treating diseases and away from chicanery long-proven vitamin and mineral supplements.


FTFY.
 
2014-01-11 08:47:56 AM  
This should be a fun thread.
This is a bookmark. Yes it is.
 
2014-01-11 09:06:36 AM  
Many people feel that the medical community's desire to crush the multivitamin and dietary supplement market is a direct attack on alternative medicine

That's only because they're low information morons completely lacking in critical thinking skills.
 
2014-01-11 09:30:03 AM  

Man On A Mission: Sybarite: Yes, we certainly wouldn't want any "official-sounding data" to steer you toward proven  highly profitable methods of treating diseases and away from chicanery  long-proven vitamin and mineral supplements.

FTFY.


My doctor told me not to take a multivitamin, just a vitamin D supplement, because a cheap and simple blood test showed that was the only supplement I needed. But I'm sure you'll find a way to explain how this is part of an elaborate conspiracy.

By the way, if you're looking for actual facts that are "long-proven", the most undeniable one is that most people don't need and don't benefit from vitamin and mineral supplements.
 
2014-01-11 09:34:03 AM  

czetie: Man On A Mission: Sybarite: Yes, we certainly wouldn't want any "official-sounding data" to steer you toward proven  highly profitable methods of treating diseases and away from chicanery  long-proven vitamin and mineral supplements.

FTFY.

My doctor told me not to take a multivitamin, just a vitamin D supplement, because a cheap and simple blood test showed that was the only supplement I needed. But I'm sure you'll find a way to explain how this is part of an elaborate conspiracy.

By the way, if you're looking for actual facts that are "long-proven", the most undeniable one is that most people don't need and don't benefit from vitamin and mineral supplements.


I think he agrees with you. Hence the part of them being highly profitable in bold
 
2014-01-11 09:54:54 AM  

czetie: By the way, if you're looking for actual facts that are "long-proven", the most undeniable one is that most people don't need and don't benefit from vitamin and mineral supplements.

d1tbpd1hx2blcp.cloudfront.net

 
2014-01-11 10:03:41 AM  

sno man: This should be a fun thread.
This is a bookmark. Yes it is.


yep. gonna be a good one.
 
2014-01-11 10:15:37 AM  
Well duh!

Why would someone who worked and studied and lost sleep for years to become a doctor and treat the sick have any interest in your health?
 
2014-01-11 10:20:31 AM  
gifrific.com

/If only someone could photoshop multivitamins instead of popcorn
 
2014-01-11 10:20:32 AM  
Hey, if you take a lot of supplements, your piss will be loaded with vitamins and minerals, and thus you'll be recycling them back into the ecosystem!  It's a win-win!
 
2014-01-11 10:28:57 AM  

jake_lex: Hey, if you take a lot of supplements, your piss will be loaded with vitamins and minerals, and thus you'll be recycling them back into the ecosystem!  It's a win-win!


hehe... That's all we need, 'roided up Asian Carp.
 
2014-01-11 10:45:05 AM  
How did we ever survive without multi-vitamins for thousands of years? By eating good food, not junk food, you say? Funny, sounds like something my DOCTOR would say.
 
2014-01-11 10:45:49 AM  
Vitamins are a crock of shiat. If you buy into them you're farking stupid and not eating properly if you're so deficient in vitamins.
/Same with that homeopathy garbage.
 
2014-01-11 10:48:56 AM  

Man On A Mission: long-proven vitamin and mineral supplements


Proven when? By who?
 
2014-01-11 10:49:38 AM  
What ever happened to just including fruits and vegetables in your diet?
 
2014-01-11 10:50:36 AM  
But if I don't take my daily Chinese made multivitamins, I won't get my daily quota of lead and tellurium!
 
2014-01-11 10:52:21 AM  
The "big pharma" conspiracists are as stupid in their own way than 9/11 truthers or the rest. More so because their illinformed decisions about health and put themselves, their kids and others at risk.
 
2014-01-11 10:52:36 AM  
Let's see... trust peer reviewed medical journals from actual doctors, or some poorly written blog on "treehugger.com".  I don't know, it's a tough call...
 
2014-01-11 10:52:41 AM  

Peter von Nostrand: czetie: Man On A Mission: Sybarite: Yes, we certainly wouldn't want any "official-sounding data" to steer you toward proven  highly profitable methods of treating diseases and away from chicanery  long-proven vitamin and mineral supplements.

FTFY.

My doctor told me not to take a multivitamin, just a vitamin D supplement, because a cheap and simple blood test showed that was the only supplement I needed. But I'm sure you'll find a way to explain how this is part of an elaborate conspiracy.

By the way, if you're looking for actual facts that are "long-proven", the most undeniable one is that most people don't need and don't benefit from vitamin and mineral supplements.

I think he agrees with you. Hence the part of them being highly profitable in bold


*reads one post down*

Apparently I'm wrong
 
2014-01-11 10:53:18 AM  

Sybarite: "Enter 'vitamins are useless' articles. The more you're presented with official-sounding data that erodes your confidence in self-care, the more you'll relinquish yourself to the seriously dysfunctional U.S. health care system. And that means the more you'll rely on surgery, prescription drugs, and health insurance."

Yes, we certainly wouldn't want any "official-sounding data" to steer you toward proven methods of treating diseases and away from chicanery.


gogd.tjs-labs.com
 
2014-01-11 10:55:23 AM  

A Terrible Human: Vitamins are a crock of shiat. If you buy into them you're farking stupid and not eating properly if you're so deficient in vitamins.
/Same with that homeopathy garbage.


Hey now, homeopathy works.  I once put a single drop of cyanide in the pacific ocean and ... BAM! all life on earth died instantly.

/or was it vitamin C? can't remember how that stuff works
 
2014-01-11 10:55:38 AM  

EmmaLou: What ever happened to just including fruits and vegetables in your diet?


Apparently that's a Big Pharma conspiracy against the heroic diet supplement community.
 
2014-01-11 10:55:59 AM  
Damn it, I take vitamins so I don't HAVE to eat!
 
2014-01-11 10:57:13 AM  

rzrwiresunrise: How did we ever survive without multi-vitamins for thousands of years? By eating good food, not junk food, you say? Funny, sounds like something my DOCTOR would say.




The whole vitamin, supplement, dietary aid and herb industry is the most unregulated and chock full of bad science, pseudo science, and actual harm. Remember the rash of deaths from ephedra? Then there is ginseng, which has been shown to cause blood pressure spikes. Recently a threat was posted about green tea extract causing liver damage.
These extracts and concentrations are unnatural and the manufacturers often cheat by putting unnatural things into them.

Traditional Chinese Medicines one of the worst offenders.

As much as I hate big pharma, I distrust the lack of oversight in the multi-billion selling "herb and supplement" industry.
 
2014-01-11 10:57:42 AM  

BunkyBrewman: Sybarite: "Enter 'vitamins are useless' articles. The more you're presented with official-sounding data that erodes your confidence in self-care, the more you'll relinquish yourself to the seriously dysfunctional U.S. health care system. And that means the more you'll rely on surgery, prescription drugs, and health insurance."

Yes, we certainly wouldn't want any "official-sounding data" to steer you toward proven methods of treating diseases and away from chicanery.

[gogd.tjs-labs.com image 850x1090]


because that ad is based on peer reviewed science..

/Might as well feed the troll with my  bookmark
 
2014-01-11 10:58:10 AM  

sno man: This should be a fun thread.
This is a bookmark. Yes it is.


Well it has this gem.

"So perhaps doctors aren't to be entirely trusted when it comes to opinions about dietary supplements"

Of course I'm leaving out the second part. Just like many do with the 2nd amendment.
 
2014-01-11 10:59:17 AM  
Too bad there's no way to ingest these vitamin-thingys while we, like, eat or something.

Life is so hard.
 
2014-01-11 11:00:09 AM  
This should be a fun thread!! :)
 
2014-01-11 11:01:13 AM  
Could doctors have an ulterior motive in telling people not buy multivitamins?

No.

Any more questions?
 
2014-01-11 11:02:53 AM  

Astorix: rzrwiresunrise: How did we ever survive without multi-vitamins for thousands of years? By eating good food, not junk food, you say? Funny, sounds like something my DOCTOR would say.

The whole vitamin, supplement, dietary aid and herb industry is the most unregulated and chock full of bad science, pseudo science, and actual harm. Remember the rash of deaths from ephedra? Then there is ginseng, which has been shown to cause blood pressure spikes. Recently a threat was posted about green tea extract causing liver damage.
These extracts and concentrations are unnatural and the manufacturers often cheat by putting unnatural things into them.

Traditional Chinese Medicines one of the worst offenders.

As much as I hate big pharma, I distrust the lack of oversight in the multi-billion selling "herb and supplement" industry.


Number one threat to our lives is life, followed closely by the automobile.

/wheres my money?
 
GBB
2014-01-11 11:03:00 AM  
You mean doctoring is a profitable business and not a philanthropic calling?
 
2014-01-11 11:03:30 AM  
I worked at the FTC, which regulates US advertising.  Our staff used to bring supplement and diet aid cases against retailers & manufacturers making phony claims.  In bringing these cases, we had to hire top nutrition scientists from good universities as experts, and they told us 20 years ago multi-vitamins are a waste of money.  Only specific vitamins help, such as if one has a vitamin D deficiency.
 
2014-01-11 11:04:56 AM  
My doc warned me against calcium supplements he said could give me kidney stones.  Recommended vit D and a baby aspirin, which is all the pharms I take, knock on wood.
 
2014-01-11 11:05:30 AM  
It ain't so.
 
2014-01-11 11:05:58 AM  

Astorix: rzrwiresunrise: How did we ever survive without multi-vitamins for thousands of years? By eating good food, not junk food, you say? Funny, sounds like something my DOCTOR would say.

The whole vitamin, supplement, dietary aid and herb industry is the most unregulated and chock full of bad science, pseudo science, and actual harm. Remember the rash of deaths from ephedra? Then there is ginseng, which has been shown to cause blood pressure spikes. Recently a threat was posted about green tea extract causing liver damage.
These extracts and concentrations are unnatural and the manufacturers often cheat by putting unnatural things into them.

Traditional Chinese Medicines one of the worst offenders.

As much as I hate big pharma, I distrust the lack of oversight in the multi-billion selling "herb and supplement" industry.


Having worked within the herbal supplement industry on as an internal compliance officer, I heartily agree with you.  Big pharma is an industry, and like any industry will lie to its consumers to make money.  The dietary supplement industry is no better, but they sure as hell will pretend to be.
 
2014-01-11 11:06:07 AM  
Most dietary recommendations are based on studies of deficiencies--people who can't absorb a nutrient. They are minimum levels, not optimum levels. Many of these studies were done by the military or in other institutional environments to determine what the minimum needs of a soldier, say, were, or how much of certain nutrients was safe--which is to say to set an upper limit on nutrients which are toxic or counterproductive in large doses.

I therefore believe that it is worth while taking supplements of many minerals and vitamins. However, it is probably true that a person eating a healthy diet does not need supplements and that many supplements don't do much good--or harm--in reasonable doses.

I look on my multivitamin as insurance, and the other vitamins I take as attempts to ensure an optimal level.

In other words, I am sane.

While pharmaceutical industries are not to be trusted (they are for-profit corporations, not philanthropists, so their advice may well be tainted), most doctors are reasonably honest, and variable in their skills, knowledge and common sense. A lot of older doctors haven't keep up with the medical science, while a lot of doctors in general are twits. Remember, half of them graduated in the bottom of their class and are only getting more ignorant and stupid with the passage of time.

All the same, I would say that vitamins are mostly harmless if you follow the directions and don't take stupid mega-doses. The alternative health industries are even more full of BS than the scientific health industries.

Studies will fight the benefits or non-benefits of various nutrients back and forth forever. As revealed by recent studies, most research papers are not read by anybody, much of the data disappears (which means the wheel is constantly being reinvented, and the media distorts and hypes every little thing. In short, good information and analysis are hard to come by.

Try ignoring 90% of everything in print or on the web.
 
2014-01-11 11:06:10 AM  

azxj: Let's see... trust peer reviewed medical journals from actual doctors, or some poorly written blog on "treehugger.com".  I don't know, it's a tough call...


^this
 
2014-01-11 11:07:52 AM  

drxym: The "big pharma" conspiracists are as stupid in their own way than 9/11 truthers or the rest. More so because their illinformed decisions about health and put themselves, their kids and others at risk.


As someone who's working in big pharma I can assure you that there is no way that they could possibly have their shiat together enough to do a global conspiracy. The higher ups in big pharma are quite possibly the stupidest people you'll ever meet, which is weird when you'd think that people smarter than scientists would be running the place.

/Current business model: Step 1) Get a blockbuster drug, Step 2) Fire 90% the scientists, Step 3) SALES! SALES! SALES! Step 4) Pray your remaining scientists make another drug after the patent on the first one expire. Step 5) Get bought out, Step 6) Layoff everyone.
 
2014-01-11 11:09:02 AM  

czetie: Man On A Mission: Sybarite: Yes, we certainly wouldn't want any "official-sounding data" to steer you toward proven  highly profitable methods of treating diseases and away from chicanery  long-proven vitamin and mineral supplements.

FTFY.

My doctor told me not to take a multivitamin, just a vitamin D supplement, because a cheap and simple blood test showed that was the only supplement I needed. But I'm sure you'll find a way to explain how this is part of an elaborate conspiracy.

By the way, if you're looking for actual facts that are "long-proven", the most undeniable one is that most people don't need and don't benefit from vitamin and mineral supplements.


I bet you could treat your vitamin D deficiency by walking bare legged in the sun. sell minimal sun exposure, get profit?
 
2014-01-11 11:12:04 AM  

BigLuca: A Terrible Human: Vitamins are a crock of shiat. If you buy into them you're farking stupid and not eating properly if you're so deficient in vitamins.
/Same with that homeopathy garbage.

Hey now, homeopathy works.  I once put a single drop of cyanide in the pacific ocean and ... BAM! all life on earth died instantly.

/or was it vitamin C? can't remember how that stuff works


I bet it was that stevia crap. You done killed us all,biatch.
 
2014-01-11 11:12:22 AM  
I take fish oil, St John's Wort, Multi-vitamins, Vit D supplement, Vit C supplement,  cherry flavor Flintstone kids,  small rocks, raw egg shells, acai berry extract, and baby aspirin, and I am never sick. So obviously I've found the perfect combination of health supplements, studies be damned!

/also i eat the one volcano burrito each month for a colon cleanse
 
2014-01-11 11:13:13 AM  

GBB: You mean doctoring is a profitable business and not a philanthropic calling?


I go with egotistical.
 
2014-01-11 11:14:09 AM  

muddythinker: I worked at the FTC, which regulates US advertising.  Our staff used to bring supplement and diet aid cases against retailers & manufacturers making phony claims.  In bringing these cases, we had to hire top nutrition scientists from good universities as experts, and they told us 20 years ago multi-vitamins are a waste of money.  Only specific vitamins help, such as if one has a vitamin D deficiency.


I figure anything OTC that makes my pee BRIGHT yellow is proly unnecessary at the very least.
 
2014-01-11 11:16:48 AM  

EmmaLou: What ever happened to just including fruits and vegetables in your diet?


We had my wife's family over for the holidays -- the whole clan, for about 3 weeks. (*shudder*) Every dinner I served included at least one side of vegetables, often two. And not weird foodie stuff; just the standards, like green beans, corn, carrots, green salad, etc, prepared in the usual ways.

Never saw them eat a single veggie, neither the children nor the adults. I would have bothered to have been horrified, but that's probably not very atypical, nowadays...
 
2014-01-11 11:18:42 AM  

A Terrible Human: Vitamins are a crock of shiat. If you buy into them you're farking stupid and not eating properly if you're so deficient in vitamins.
/Same with that homeopathy garbage.


What gets me is this new gummy vitamin chew for adults. No more hard-to-swallow pills! Good grief, we're getting soft.
 
2014-01-11 11:19:21 AM  
I don't think there's some great conspiracy here, regardless of whether vitamins "work" or not.

It's worth mentioning, doctors are not scientists. They aren't really equipped to say whether something works or not. Their job is to apply medical science, not to develop it. So they get told "this pill does this because of these processes" and take it at face value until some other scientist says otherwise. I know I wouldn't want a doctor that's trying to prove big pharma wrong.

Also it's 20 below outside, I'll take my damn vitamin D pills.
 
2014-01-11 11:21:10 AM  

GBB: You mean doctoring is a profitable business and not a philanthropic calling?


Shhh, not so loud! :D
 
2014-01-11 11:21:37 AM  
Well, vitamins are useless, but only if someone has a properly balanced diet.  And given the dietary habits of far too many Americans vitamins are useful to many people.
 
2014-01-11 11:22:13 AM  
The one thing (so I've heard) that a multivitamin is good for is passing a drug test.  They'll fail you if your pee is too clear, so drink a ton of water and then take a multivitamin to color your pee.
 
2014-01-11 11:23:03 AM  
I saw a wonderful graphic produced by a couple of bright young things which summarizes everything that is known on the snake oil and the science of vitamins, minerals and supplements.


Here is a link to one version:  http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/play/snake-oil-supplements/

There is strong evidence that garlic is good for your blood pressure, for example. There is no evidence that bitter melon is good for diabetes.

My advice:  consult reliable medical sources, not cranks, alternative practicianers, or single doctor webpages (there's no way to be sure the doctor isn't a crank or a fraud--she might be a Doctor of Philosophy rather than a physician or specialist).

Take everything you read in the news with a grain of salt.

Get your information as close to the source as possible. Use your common sense. Consult more than one source for everything.

Follow the broad and well beaten path by eating a lot of fruits and vegetables, avoiding processed crap, and so forth. Don't sweat the details.

Know yourself. You are your own worst enemy so learn your own tricks and keep yourself in line.

Trust no one with a device or product to sell. Believe in no easy solutions or miracles.

Thimk. Think until it hurts. Then think a little less than that.
 
2014-01-11 11:23:23 AM  

Reverend J: drxym: The "big pharma" conspiracists are as stupid in their own way than 9/11 truthers or the rest. More so because their illinformed decisions about health and put themselves, their kids and others at risk.

As someone who's working in big pharma I can assure you that there is no way that they could possibly have their shiat together enough to do a global conspiracy. The higher ups in big pharma are quite possibly the stupidest people you'll ever meet, which is weird when you'd think that people smarter than scientists would be running the place.

/Current business model: Step 1) Get a blockbuster drug, Step 2) Fire 90% the scientists, Step 3) SALES! SALES! SALES! Step 4) Pray your remaining scientists make another drug after the patent on the first one expire. Step 5) Get bought out, Step 6) Layoff everyone.


Oh my god, this. I work in an investigational drug pharmacy. I read the protocols and wonder how on earth people are going to make money on some of this stuff. But then I realize that when we raise issues with sponsors, we're doing all the legwork for them. God forbid I get a pharmacy manual written by people with pharmacy knowledge. It's always written by someone with no inherent knowledge of what a pharmacist actually does.
 
2014-01-11 11:23:25 AM  
The only supplement I take with any regularity is a B-complex, and that's because I drink too much, which depletes B-1. It still turns my pee green so I imagine I'm pissing most of the tablet away come the next day, but that stuff is relatively cheap compared to the pile of supplements I see some people take every day.
 
2014-01-11 11:23:28 AM  

Bumblefark: EmmaLou: What ever happened to just including fruits and vegetables in your diet?

We had my wife's family over for the holidays -- the whole clan, for about 3 weeks. (*shudder*) Every dinner I served included at least one side of vegetables, often two. And not weird foodie stuff; just the standards, like green beans, corn, carrots, green salad, etc, prepared in the usual ways.

Never saw them eat a single veggie, neither the children nor the adults. I would have bothered to have been horrified, but that's probably not very atypical, nowadays...


I was visiting my in laws with my mom and step father. They served a nice fresh garden salad with dinner, and my step father proclaimed loudly "I don't eat salad." That's probably why his heart function is at 20%, he has the diabeetus, and he weighs about 400 pounds.

I don't understand the dislike of vegetables that so many people seem to have.
 
2014-01-11 11:24:02 AM  
I'd be more open to listening to my doctor were I not to have spotted him playing a round of golf with two guys I knew to be pharmaceutical reps. I will agree that multivitamins aren't worth it, but there's a grain of truth in what subby says about the medical industry being more interested in treating the disease than preventing it in the first place.
 
2014-01-11 11:24:25 AM  
Linus Pauling, winner of two Nobel prizes (OK, one was for 'Peace'), a hard core certified genius heavy hitter, believed in the power of massive doses of Vitamin C to cure the common cold and cancer, among other things.

Even after this was disproven time and time again he still claimed that "C" was a miracle drug, even though there was evidence that it could actually worsen some cancers.  He also apparently became something of a quack later in life.

The moral of our story is that belief is not the same thing as knowledge.
 
2014-01-11 11:27:34 AM  

Astorix: rzrwiresunrise: How did we ever survive without multi-vitamins for thousands of years? By eating good food, not junk food, you say? Funny, sounds like something my DOCTOR would say.

The whole vitamin, supplement, dietary aid and herb industry is the most unregulated and chock full of bad science, pseudo science, and actual harm. Remember the rash of deaths from ephedra? Then there is ginseng, which has been shown to cause blood pressure spikes. Recently a threat was posted about green tea extract causing liver damage.
These extracts and concentrations are unnatural and the manufacturers often cheat by putting unnatural things into them.

Traditional Chinese Medicines one of the worst offenders.

As much as I hate big pharma, I distrust the lack of oversight in the multi-billion selling "herb and supplement" industry.


The issue with Chinese medicine is that traditionally, a person was seen by their doctor who knew everything about their health and created a specific formula tailored just to them, then kept an eye on the person for how they were doing.  In modern times, people read "ginseng is good for making you young and boosting your immunity and helping you levitate!" and they just grab a bottle of pills off a shelf and start randomly taking them when the mood strikes them.
 
2014-01-11 11:29:48 AM  

azxj: The one thing (so I've heard) that a multivitamin is good for is passing a drug test.  They'll fail you if your pee is too clear, so drink a ton of water and then take a multivitamin to color your pee.


That might have been true in the late 1980's but certainly isn't true now. Creatinine levels are objectively tested; the color doesn't matter at all, even in the rapid screen done in office. If the sample gets sent for verification (ie mass spec) there is zero chance of covering it up.
 
2014-01-11 11:31:05 AM  

AMonkey'sUncle: A Terrible Human: Vitamins are a crock of shiat. If you buy into them you're farking stupid and not eating properly if you're so deficient in vitamins.
/Same with that homeopathy garbage.

What gets me is this new gummy vitamin chew for adults. No more hard-to-swallow pills! Good grief, we're getting soft.


It's primarily aimed at people with bad teeth and people with swallowing issues. A number of people with throat issues who have to use CPAP machines also have issues with choking on pills and certain kinds of food. And we're not talking about just really heavy people, some people have congenital defects with their palate and esophagus the cause snoring, sleep apnea, etc.
 
2014-01-11 11:31:17 AM  

czetie: Man On A Mission: Sybarite: Yes, we certainly wouldn't want any "official-sounding data" to steer you toward proven  highly profitable methods of treating diseases and away from chicanery  long-proven vitamin and mineral supplements.

FTFY.

My doctor told me not to take a multivitamin, just a vitamin D supplement, because a cheap and simple blood test showed that was the only supplement I needed. But I'm sure you'll find a way to explain how this is part of an elaborate conspiracy.

By the way, if you're looking for actual facts that are "long-proven", the most undeniable one is that most people don't need and don't benefit from vitamin and mineral supplements.


Most. But if you are missing something in your diet and dont know it they have a huge impact.
I started taking multivitamins and some regular issues I had been fighting with for the last decade have cleared up.
Turns out I have issues keeping vitamin C and Zinc in my system.
 
2014-01-11 11:31:45 AM  
It's quite amusing to see claims of profiteering by doctors from people who spend who knows how much money on loads of vitamins that, unless their diet is terrible, they probably have no need for.
 
2014-01-11 11:31:53 AM  

EmmaLou: Bumblefark: EmmaLou: What ever happened to just including fruits and vegetables in your diet?

We had my wife's family over for the holidays -- the whole clan, for about 3 weeks. (*shudder*) Every dinner I served included at least one side of vegetables, often two. And not weird foodie stuff; just the standards, like green beans, corn, carrots, green salad, etc, prepared in the usual ways.

Never saw them eat a single veggie, neither the children nor the adults. I would have bothered to have been horrified, but that's probably not very atypical, nowadays...

I was visiting my in laws with my mom and step father. They served a nice fresh garden salad with dinner, and my step father proclaimed loudly "I don't eat salad." That's probably why his heart function is at 20%, he has the diabeetus, and he weighs about 400 pounds.

I don't understand the dislike of vegetables that so many people seem to have.


Heh. Yeah, over here, there was no small irony in the ritual of clearing the table, throwing everyone's veggies in the trash, and then shuttling my wife's (diabetic) dad off to his dialysis appointment...

/but, hey, I'm sure that kidney transplant is gonna come through any day now...no harm, no foul, right?
 
2014-01-11 11:32:28 AM  

Astorix: rzrwiresunrise: How did we ever survive without multi-vitamins for thousands of years? By eating good food, not junk food, you say? Funny, sounds like something my DOCTOR would say.

The whole vitamin, supplement, dietary aid and herb industry is the most unregulated and chock full of bad science, pseudo science, and actual harm. Remember the rash of deaths from ephedra? Then there is ginseng, which has been shown to cause blood pressure spikes. Recently a threat was posted about green tea extract causing liver damage.
These extracts and concentrations are unnatural and the manufacturers often cheat by putting unnatural things into them.

Traditional Chinese Medicines one of the worst offenders.

As much as I hate big pharma, I distrust the lack of oversight in the multi-billion selling "herb and supplement" industry.


I wholeheartedly agree. In my 20's I blew tons of money on "supplements". Even though I knew better, I thought that if i worked out 5 times a week AND used hundreds of dollars worth of the junk every month that maybe somehow I'd be SUPER built.

Of course the supplement industry is largely to blame for people being dumb shiats. IMO if you're reading mens health and theres 40 pages of advertisements getting slung at you showing how super effective the crap is, eventually you will fall for it.

It turned out, wether I took them or not I looked EXACTLY the same. Crazy.
 
2014-01-11 11:35:30 AM  
I agree multivitamins are useless and a waste of money.   Do not solve any condition unless pregnant or a celiac.


My Doctor, my kids doctors, the pediatrician,  my kids school have been saying this since the 1960's.

In the US our diet provides everything and more.   You are pissing away your money, literally,  on multivitamins.
 
2014-01-11 11:38:37 AM  

r1niceboy: I'd be more open to listening to my doctor were I not to have spotted him playing a round of golf with two guys I knew to be pharmaceutical reps. I will agree that multivitamins aren't worth it, but there's a grain of truth in what subby says about the medical industry being more interested in treating the disease than preventing it in the first place.


A: So someone's not allowed to enjoy someone's company if their job is "Rep"?

B: Make up your mind. Are doctors owned by the pharmaceutical companies or by the insurance companies? At least with the latter, we have some proof(See Kaiser Permanente, which provides shiatty health care, and is primarily run by their insurance provision network). And with that, the Cure is more important than the treatment, as insured patients end up costing the insurance company(And by extension, the hospital), MORE money if they come in for constant treatments.
 
2014-01-11 11:40:20 AM  

StoPPeRmobile: sno man: This should be a fun thread.
This is a bookmark. Yes it is.

Well it has this gem.

"So perhaps doctors aren't to be entirely trusted when it comes to opinions about dietary supplements"

Of course I'm leaving out the second part. Just like many do with the 2nd amendment.


Sorry but the "western medicine is crap we only need herbs and vitimens and chinese folk medicine(like tiger penis for impotence)" is left wing hippie derp not right wing Brother John Birch derp.

Now fluridated water being a conspiracy is right wing derp.
 
2014-01-11 11:41:41 AM  
Sounds like Big Nutra has finally achieved critical mass with their derp bomb.
 
2014-01-11 11:42:04 AM  
The only vitamin I need is a daily dose of Vitamin THC, man.
 
2014-01-11 11:43:05 AM  

Oldiron_79: StoPPeRmobile: sno man: This should be a fun thread.
This is a bookmark. Yes it is.

Well it has this gem.

"So perhaps doctors aren't to be entirely trusted when it comes to opinions about dietary supplements"

Of course I'm leaving out the second part. Just like many do with the 2nd amendment.

Sorry but the "western medicine is crap we only need herbs and vitimens and chinese folk medicine(like tiger penis for impotence)" is left wing hippie derp not right wing Brother John Birch derp.

Now fluridated water being a conspiracy is right wing derp.


I always thought the fluoridated water conspiracy was it's own non winged brand of derp.
 
2014-01-11 11:43:59 AM  
You really can't categorize vitamins, minerals, and supplements into a monolithic group.  Each unique molecule or elemental ion has it's own distinct biochemistry, pharmacology, absorption and excretion rates, etc.  It's just mentally obtuse to not parse them.
 
2014-01-11 11:45:40 AM  
My big issue with multivitamins is that they put doses of calcium with doses of iron. Calcium interferes with iron absorption. And the form of iron they put in them is poorly absorbed and constipating for most people.

Calcium supplements? Calcium needs to be ingested with the proper amount of vitamin C, vitamin D, and magnesium to be effective. All this calcium added stuff they're marketing to older women who are already losing their bone mass rapidly is rubbish. What's good for bone loss? Resistance exercise, good diet, and not guzzling coffee or sodas. You can't just eat calcium supplements that are glorified candy and expect your bones to recover.
 
2014-01-11 11:46:23 AM  

Whatchoo Talkinbout: Too bad there's no way to ingest these vitamin-thingys while we, like, eat or something.

Life is so hard.


Doritos and beer aren't as nutritious as you might think.
 
2014-01-11 11:47:49 AM  
tl;dr version: Don't listen to medical doctors and research companies, they're just out to make tons of money hand over fist.  You should listen to multivitamin production companies, which are also a multi-billion dollar industry.

I guess it's just hard to maintain a satisfying level of smugness about taking medical advice from trained professionals.
 
2014-01-11 11:50:02 AM  
There certainly are some vitamins and minerals that you need and that have extensive scientific evidence in support of their use in improving health. However, supplementing your diet with a multivitamin is also going to push a ton of other crap into your body that we have no evidence of their benefit, and some/many people already get enough of the good vitamins and minerals through their regular diet.
 
2014-01-11 11:50:12 AM  

Sybarite: "Enter 'vitamins are useless' articles. The more you're presented with official-sounding data that erodes your confidence in self-care, the more you'll relinquish yourself to the seriously dysfunctional U.S. health care system. And that means the more you'll rely on surgery, prescription drugs, and health insurance."

Yes, we certainly wouldn't want any "official-sounding data" to steer you toward proven methods of treating diseases and away from chicanery.


If a "healer" says vitamins aren't ok because they lack the bioavailability of [insert hippie shiat here], it's ok. If a doctor says it in a peer-reviewed study, it can't be trusted. That's how stupid we are now.
 
2014-01-11 11:52:57 AM  
bohemiantraveler.com

Fun fact: Schoolchildren in Iceland are still fed Cod liver oil at school.
 
2014-01-11 11:52:58 AM  

Astorix: rzrwiresunrise: How did we ever survive without multi-vitamins for thousands of years? By eating good food, not junk food, you say? Funny, sounds like something my DOCTOR would say.

The whole vitamin, supplement, dietary aid and herb industry is the most unregulated and chock full of bad science, pseudo science, and actual harm. Remember the rash of deaths from ephedra? Then there is ginseng, which has been shown to cause blood pressure spikes. Recently a threat was posted about green tea extract causing liver damage.
These extracts and concentrations are unnatural and the manufacturers often cheat by putting unnatural things into them.

Traditional Chinese Medicines one of the worst offenders.

As much as I hate big pharma, I distrust the lack of oversight in the multi-billion selling "herb and supplement" industry.


No kidding,  And why are there so many MLM sleazy businesses that start out as vitamin and herbal supplements?
 
2014-01-11 11:55:17 AM  
SkerriNinja:
Oh my god, this. I work in an investigational drug pharmacy. I read the protocols and wonder how on earth people are going to make money on some of this stuff. But then I realize that when we raise issues with sponsors, we're doing all the legwork for them. God forbid I get a pharmacy manual written by people with pharmacy knowledge. It's always written by someone with no inherent knowledge of what a pharmacist actually does.

Does you company hire any pharmD's or MD's at all for anything? Just curious.
 
2014-01-11 11:57:01 AM  

Mantour: [bohemiantraveler.com image 850x568]

Fun fact: Schoolchildren in Iceland are still fed Cod liver oil at school.


If Scandinavians are low on fish oil, they get very depressed and do things like create death metal bands or go pillaging.
 
2014-01-11 11:58:04 AM  

vharshyde: r1niceboy: I'd be more open to listening to my doctor were I not to have spotted him playing a round of golf with two guys I knew to be pharmaceutical reps. I will agree that multivitamins aren't worth it, but there's a grain of truth in what subby says about the medical industry being more interested in treating the disease than preventing it in the first place.

A: So someone's not allowed to enjoy someone's company if their job is "Rep"?

B: Make up your mind. Are doctors owned by the pharmaceutical companies or by the insurance companies? At least with the latter, we have some proof(See Kaiser Permanente, which provides shiatty health care, and is primarily run by their insurance provision network). And with that, the Cure is more important than the treatment, as insured patients end up costing the insurance company(And by extension, the hospital), MORE money if they come in for constant treatments.



Even if it is the pharma companies controlling everything, "the Cure" is worth more for two reasons:
1. If Company B has the cure it gets the vast majority of the business.
2. Even if The Cure cost less over a patients lifetime,   the company gets a gigantic spike of money RIGHT NOW when  the CEO cares about it. It's pretty obvious they don't give a rats ass about 20 years from now. Unless someone here wants to claim that somehow big Pharma is the ONLY industry in the USA that looks past next quarter.

Additionally, what the "big pharma avoids cures" people ignore is that the patents on medicine don't last forever. And by the time they are approved for sale, there isn't a lifetime of treatment left.
Unfortunately what they are selling is the best they can come up with.
 
2014-01-11 11:59:27 AM  

Sybarite: Yes, we certainly wouldn't want any "official-sounding data" to steer you toward proven methods of treating diseases and away from chicanery.


DSHEA was one of the worst laws ever passed in this nation. The entire dietary supplement industry is barely better than the farking homeopaths and faith healers.
 
2014-01-11 12:00:03 PM  
According to the original article in Annals of Internal Medicine:

Enough Is Enough: Stop Wasting Money on Vitamin and Mineral Supplements
Eliseo Guallar, MD, DrPH; Saverio Stranges, MD, PhD; Cynthia Mulrow, MD, MSc, Senior Deputy Editor; Lawrence J. Appel, MD, MPH; and Edgar R. Miller III, MD, PhD
Annals of Internal Medicine
17December2013
http://annals.org/article.aspx?articleid=1789253
Ann Intern Med. 2013;159(12):850-851-851. doi:10.7326/0003-4819-159-12-201312170-00011

"This article has been corrected. The original version (PDF) is appended to this article as a SUPPLEMENT."

Heh, Heh, Heh. But their article even has a supplement.
 
2014-01-11 12:00:04 PM  

Likwit: Sybarite: "Enter 'vitamins are useless' articles. The more you're presented with official-sounding data that erodes your confidence in self-care, the more you'll relinquish yourself to the seriously dysfunctional U.S. health care system. And that means the more you'll rely on surgery, prescription drugs, and health insurance."

Yes, we certainly wouldn't want any "official-sounding data" to steer you toward proven methods of treating diseases and away from chicanery.

If a "healer" says vitamins aren't ok because they lack the bioavailability of [insert hippie shiat here], it's ok. If a doctor says it in a peer-reviewed study, it can't be trusted. That's how stupid we are now.


www.physicianschoiceinsurance.com


People will embrace "authorities" that gives reasons for their pre-conceived beliefs, in order to reinforce them and will reject evidence to the contrary.
 
2014-01-11 12:02:42 PM  

jaytkay: Man On A Mission: long-proven vitamin and mineral supplements

Proven when? By who?


By folks who didn't get scurvy and rickets?
 
2014-01-11 12:03:59 PM  

FunkOut: AMonkey'sUncle: A Terrible Human: Vitamins are a crock of shiat. If you buy into them you're farking stupid and not eating properly if you're so deficient in vitamins.
/Same with that homeopathy garbage.

What gets me is this new gummy vitamin chew for adults. No more hard-to-swallow pills! Good grief, we're getting soft.

It's primarily aimed at people with bad teeth and people with swallowing issues. A number of people with throat issues who have to use CPAP machines also have issues with choking on pills and certain kinds of food. And we're not talking about just really heavy people, some people have congenital defects with their palate and esophagus the cause snoring, sleep apnea, etc.


No problem understanding those situations, but the chews are marketed to young adults, if you go by the ads.
 
hej
2014-01-11 12:04:22 PM  

rzrwiresunrise: How did we ever survive without multi-vitamins for thousands of years? By eating good food, not junk food, you say? Funny, sounds like something my DOCTOR would say.


To be fair, for "thousands of years" people had significantly shorter life spans.
 
2014-01-11 12:07:41 PM  

AMonkey'sUncle: FunkOut: AMonkey'sUncle: A Terrible Human: Vitamins are a crock of shiat. If you buy into them you're farking stupid and not eating properly if you're so deficient in vitamins.
/Same with that homeopathy garbage.

What gets me is this new gummy vitamin chew for adults. No more hard-to-swallow pills! Good grief, we're getting soft.

It's primarily aimed at people with bad teeth and people with swallowing issues. A number of people with throat issues who have to use CPAP machines also have issues with choking on pills and certain kinds of food. And we're not talking about just really heavy people, some people have congenital defects with their palate and esophagus the cause snoring, sleep apnea, etc.

No problem understanding those situations, but the chews are marketed to young adults, if you go by the ads.


Between Netflix for TV and all the adblock I've got in the computer, I go for days without seeing ads. When I do see an ad somewhere, it's kind of surprising.

Next up : sippy cups for people who just can't be bothered with not pouring a whole cup of liquid on their face.
 
2014-01-11 12:09:01 PM  
Has anyone said "If it had any measurable effect on the human body it would be a drug and regulated." yet?

Because it's true.

It's a food product.

In Canada you are not allowed to say it does anything.

Good old Memorial University, making a fudged up report (one of the biggest scandals in science) become dogma for the industrial food byproduct consumer.
 
2014-01-11 12:12:31 PM  

NutWrench: jaytkay: Man On A Mission: long-proven vitamin and mineral supplements

Proven when? By who?

By folks who didn't get scurvy and rickets?


Scurvy and rickets are prevented by nutrients in food, not "supplements".
 
2014-01-11 12:13:37 PM  

StoPPeRmobile: GBB: You mean doctoring is a profitable business and not a philanthropic calling?

I go with egotistical.


Repeat customers, referrals to their friends, kickdowns from pharma reps and ordering tests on diagnostic equipment that they have  financial interest in are sound business practices.
 
2014-01-11 12:14:00 PM  

hej: rzrwiresunrise: How did we ever survive without multi-vitamins for thousands of years? By eating good food, not junk food, you say? Funny, sounds like something my DOCTOR would say.

To be fair, for "thousands of years" people had significantly shorter life spans.


Wow. Such scurvy. Much rickets.
 
2014-01-11 12:23:43 PM  

rzrwiresunrise: muddythinker: I worked at the FTC, which regulates US advertising.  Our staff used to bring supplement and diet aid cases against retailers & manufacturers making phony claims.  In bringing these cases, we had to hire top nutrition scientists from good universities as experts, and they told us 20 years ago multi-vitamins are a waste of money.  Only specific vitamins help, such as if one has a vitamin D deficiency.

I figure anything OTC that makes my pee BRIGHT yellow is proly unnecessary at the very least.


The sun makes your pee bright yellow?

Watch out for cancer.
 
2014-01-11 12:25:59 PM  

hej: rzrwiresunrise: How did we ever survive without multi-vitamins for thousands of years? By eating good food, not junk food, you say? Funny, sounds like something my DOCTOR would say.

To be fair, for "thousands of years" people had significantly shorter life spans.


Due to a lack of antibiotics, not a lack of multi-vitamin supplements. If you want to be fair, at least give credit where it's due.
 
2014-01-11 12:26:04 PM  

hej: rzrwiresunrise: How did we ever survive without multi-vitamins for thousands of years? By eating good food, not junk food, you say? Funny, sounds like something my DOCTOR would say.

To be fair, for "thousands of years" people had significantly shorter life spans.


If you mean life expectancy, then, yeah, obviously; medicine and technology has improved considerably over those thousands of years. If you meant that human were incapable of living as long as the past as we do now, then you're just wrong.


jaytkay: NutWrench: jaytkay: Man On A Mission: long-proven vitamin and mineral supplements

Proven when? By who?

By folks who didn't get scurvy and rickets?

Scurvy and rickets are prevented by nutrients in food, not "supplements".


Liar. Everyone who doesn't routinely take supplements has scurvy and rickets. It's nearly impossible to absorb any nutrients by consuming food and beverages.
 
2014-01-11 12:28:31 PM  
Treehugger, of course.

So climate scientists are infallible about global warming due to mountains of evidence.

However, medical scientists are trying to discredit the alternative medicine movement despite mountains of evidence.

*sigh*
 
2014-01-11 12:28:48 PM  

StoPPeRmobile: rzrwiresunrise: muddythinker: I worked at the FTC, which regulates US advertising.  Our staff used to bring supplement and diet aid cases against retailers & manufacturers making phony claims.  In bringing these cases, we had to hire top nutrition scientists from good universities as experts, and they told us 20 years ago multi-vitamins are a waste of money.  Only specific vitamins help, such as if one has a vitamin D deficiency.

I figure anything OTC that makes my pee BRIGHT yellow is proly unnecessary at the very least.

The sun makes your pee bright yellow?

Watch out for cancer.


Uh, no. Multi-vitamins will. A clue that it's simply passing thru my body as waste.
 
2014-01-11 12:29:21 PM  

jaytkay: NutWrench: jaytkay: Man On A Mission: long-proven vitamin and mineral supplements

Proven when? By who?

By folks who didn't get scurvy and rickets?

Scurvy and rickets are prevented by nutrients in food, not "supplements".


Rickets are prevented by vitamin D...which is added to dairy products after being synthesised from lanolin. Or one can eat fish liver oils. Or go in the sun. Or great loads of mushrooms. But it's not found in large amounts in most foods.

Milk has D added to it.
 
2014-01-11 12:30:20 PM  

FunkOut: hej: rzrwiresunrise: How did we ever survive without multi-vitamins for thousands of years? By eating good food, not junk food, you say? Funny, sounds like something my DOCTOR would say.

To be fair, for "thousands of years" people had significantly shorter life spans.

Wow. Such scurvy. Much rickets.


upload.wikimedia.org

I see what you did there.
 
2014-01-11 12:30:49 PM  
Goddammit, I've been telling my patients for years that vitamin supplements were okay to take but would not improve health or prevent infection.

I want my kickback.

 
2014-01-11 12:31:17 PM  
I'm a physician, and here's my prescription for you Farkers:

How 'bout just eat healthy?!?

Study after study demonstrates that when you strip-out the micronutrient from its source, the benefit is lost. Taking fish-oil capsules is of no benefit, but eating fish is. Taking vitamin E alone is of no benefit, but eating broccoli and sunflower seeds is. Etc.

But I know, I'm just a pawn in this Grand Conspiracy.
 
2014-01-11 12:33:24 PM  

rzrwiresunrise: StoPPeRmobile: rzrwiresunrise: muddythinker: I worked at the FTC, which regulates US advertising.  Our staff used to bring supplement and diet aid cases against retailers & manufacturers making phony claims.  In bringing these cases, we had to hire top nutrition scientists from good universities as experts, and they told us 20 years ago multi-vitamins are a waste of money.  Only specific vitamins help, such as if one has a vitamin D deficiency.

I figure anything OTC that makes my pee BRIGHT yellow is proly unnecessary at the very least.

The sun makes your pee bright yellow?

Watch out for cancer.

Uh, no. Multi-vitamins will. A clue that it's simply passing thru my body as waste.


That's just from riboflavin (B2). It's added to most breakfast cereals. Being water soluble, the excess which isn't used flushes out.
 
2014-01-11 12:35:36 PM  

Man On A Mission: Sybarite: Yes, we certainly wouldn't want any "official-sounding data" to steer you toward proven highly profitable methods of treating diseases and away from chicanery long-proven vitamin and mineral supplements.

FTFY.


[citation needed]
 
2014-01-11 12:35:56 PM  

darwinpolice: tl;dr version: Don't listen to medical doctors and research companies, they're just out to make tons of money hand over fist.  You should listen to multivitamin production companies, which are also a multi-billion dollar industry.

I guess it's just hard to maintain a satisfying level of smugness about taking medical advice from trained professionals.


I'd say, 'Thank God we have our government looking out for us....'

Except they've already sold out.  I'm surprised Pepsi hasn't purchased it's way into the FDA's food pyramid.
 
2014-01-11 12:36:26 PM  
Your blog has glaring inconsistencies and just plain sucks.
 
2014-01-11 12:36:45 PM  

Bumblefark: EmmaLou: What ever happened to just including fruits and vegetables in your diet?

We had my wife's family over for the holidays -- the whole clan, for about 3 weeks. (*shudder*) Every dinner I served included at least one side of vegetables, often two. And not weird foodie stuff; just the standards, like green beans, corn, carrots, green salad, etc, prepared in the usual ways.

Never saw them eat a single veggie, neither the children nor the adults. I would have bothered to have been horrified, but that's probably not very atypical, nowadays...


The adults are responsible for themselves and will one day sleep in the bed they're making, but you have to feel bad for the kids because that's when good or bad habits get made.  When I was a child, my mother made sure we almost always had at least two sides of vegetables on our plates as kids, and we weren't permitted seconds of the meat or potatoes unless we had finished all of the vegetables first.  As an adult, I probably eat a head of lettuce each week just in the form of green salads with dinner, and that's hardly the extent of my veggie consumption.  I drink mineral water, but take no supplements.

/On the other hand, I also drink a bit too much beer, but I learned that habit a bit later on in life
 
2014-01-11 12:39:38 PM  

AMonkey'sUncle: FunkOut: AMonkey'sUncle: A Terrible Human: Vitamins are a crock of shiat. If you buy into them you're farking stupid and not eating properly if you're so deficient in vitamins.
/Same with that homeopathy garbage.

What gets me is this new gummy vitamin chew for adults. No more hard-to-swallow pills! Good grief, we're getting soft.

It's primarily aimed at people with bad teeth and people with swallowing issues. A number of people with throat issues who have to use CPAP machines also have issues with choking on pills and certain kinds of food. And we're not talking about just really heavy people, some people have congenital defects with their palate and esophagus the cause snoring, sleep apnea, etc.

No problem understanding those situations, but the chews are marketed to young adults, if you go by the ads.


If people are more inclined to do something regularly if it's not unpleasant experience, how is that a bad thing?

Or are you the type to insist on getting a urethra examination via a rigid cystoscope rather than the modern fiber optic tubes?
 
2014-01-11 12:45:54 PM  

brantgoose: Most dietary recommendations are based on studies of deficiencies--people who can't absorb a nutrient. They are minimum levels, not optimum levels. Many of these studies were done by the military or in other institutional environments to determine what the minimum needs of a soldier, say, were, or how much of certain nutrients was safe--which is to say to set an upper limit on nutrients which are toxic or counterproductive in large doses.

I therefore believe that it is worth while taking supplements of many minerals and vitamins. However, it is probably true that a person eating a healthy diet does not need supplements and that many supplements don't do much good--or harm--in reasonable doses.

I look on my multivitamin as insurance, and the other vitamins I take as attempts to ensure an optimal level.

In other words, I am sane.

While pharmaceutical industries are not to be trusted (they are for-profit corporations, not philanthropists, so their advice may well be tainted), most doctors are reasonably honest, and variable in their skills, knowledge and common sense. A lot of older doctors haven't keep up with the medical science, while a lot of doctors in general are twits. Remember, half of them graduated in the bottom of their class and are only getting more ignorant and stupid with the passage of time.

All the same, I would say that vitamins are mostly harmless if you follow the directions and don't take stupid mega-doses. The alternative health industries are even more full of BS than the scientific health industries.

Studies will fight the benefits or non-benefits of various nutrients back and forth forever. As revealed by recent studies, most research papers are not read by anybody, much of the data disappears (which means the wheel is constantly being reinvented, and the media distorts and hypes every little thing. In short, good information and analysis are hard to come by.

Try ignoring 90% of everything in print or on the web.


This
 
2014-01-11 12:47:14 PM  

NutWrench: jaytkay: Man On A Mission: long-proven vitamin and mineral supplements

Proven when? By who?

By folks who didn't get scurvy and rickets?


This whole time sailors were preventing scurvy by keeping limes on board, when all they had to do was pop a multivitamin.

/why eat food when you can pop pills, amirite
 
2014-01-11 12:51:21 PM  

rzrwiresunrise: How did we ever survive without multi-vitamins for thousands of years? By eating good food, not junk food, you say? Funny, sounds like something my DOCTOR would say.


The strong & rich had no problem with that, they had meat, milk, blood of babies and virgins & etc avail. everyday, and slaves to bring them all sorts of special veg & fruits.
The commoners had a short lifespan, very poor diet, marked by vitamin deficiencies that sharply limited their brain and physique, at constant risk from multiple infections and illnesses. Infant mortality was very high. Their ability to fight back, win freedom or accumulate even a little wealth was almost non-existent.

The rich and strong preyed upon them for pretty girls and other genetic selections [like breeding livestock] and let the rest do or die.
The rich worked very hard to keep them at the edge of starvation at all times.
This current trend is history repeating itself...

Now we have a similar situation, the poor have a very unhealthy diet, sometimes by choice. It is a good way to keep them weak and dependent.
The use of multivitamins can go a long way towards correcting a poor diet.

In an emergency where food supplies are limited or foraging [eating weeds etc] must be done, multivitamins can preserve health and mental functions, morale & etc.

One main reason people overeat: the body is craving a nutrient or a few, and the body will command to eat until that need is fulfilled.

I suggest anyone who is prudent own a 3 year supply of multi vit, multi mineral, and B-12 for themselves and anyone they care about.
 A stash like that is physically small, costs maybe 100 bucks or less per person, excellent CHEAP insurance against starvation. You could eat nothing but potatoes or weeds and still maintain health.

No one with higher cognitive functions is gonna believe the propaganda. [15% of curr population]
Those who live like sheep, and can not originate thoughts of their own, or manage free will, they are doomed to a short, obese, sick life. Excellent slave stock.[livestock]
 
2014-01-11 12:51:53 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: NutWrench: jaytkay: Man On A Mission: long-proven vitamin and mineral supplements

Proven when? By who?

By folks who didn't get scurvy and rickets?

This whole time sailors were preventing scurvy by keeping limes on board, when all they had to do was pop a multivitamin.

/why eat food when you can pop pills, amirite


I like to eat my penicillin on a piece of mouldy bread instead of those mass marketed mainstream pills.
 
2014-01-11 12:58:15 PM  

JSTACAT: Those who live like sheep, and can not originate thoughts of their own, or manage free will, they are doomed to a short, obese, sick life. Excellent slave stock.


"does not play well with others"
 
2014-01-11 12:59:05 PM  
There might be something to this.

All I know is that I take quality vitamins every day and my health, energy, moods & life is way better than the years I didn't take them. I think I'll stick to what works for me.
 
2014-01-11 01:02:56 PM  
Why is it that anyone who claims "Big Pharma" only wants to profit upon illness, also happily spends HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS A MONTH on shiat they don't need for ailments they don't have? But surely the kindly hippies at the health food store only have the customer's well-being in mind? And not, say, enormous profits. I imagine some of the low-level employees on the floor believe their own bullshiat, but the store owners most certainly do not.
 
2014-01-11 01:05:25 PM  

Skunkwolf: Has anyone said "If it had any measurable effect on the human body it would be a drug and regulated." yet?

Because it's true.

It's a food product.

In Canada you are not allowed to say it does anything.

Good old Memorial University, making a fudged up report (one of the biggest scandals in science) become dogma for the industrial food byproduct consumer.


Yes, they can  They can make claims, as long as it is done according to the monograph made by Health Canada, under the Uses and Purpose sections

e.g.:   Seal Oil

Statement(s) to the effect of:

For products providing 100-3,000 mg eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) + docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) + docosapentaenoic acid (DPA), per day:

Source of omega-3 fatty acids (Wu  et al. 2012; Simopoulos 2007; Oh 2005; FCC 7; Brox  et al. 2001; Simopoulos 1999) for the maintenance of good health
Source of eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA), docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) and docosapentaenoic acid (DPA) (Wu  et al. 2012; Simopoulos 2007; Oh 2005; FCC 7; Brox  et al. 2001; Simopoulos 1999) for the maintenance of good health.

For products providing 150-2,000 mg eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) + docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) + docosapentaenoic acid (DPA) including at least 150 mg DHA, per day (maximum doses of EPA + DHA in Table 1 below will apply):

Helps to support the development of the brain, eyes and nerves in children up to 12 years of age (Ryan and Nelson 2008; Marszalek and Lodish 2005; Haag 2003; FCC 7; Giedd  et al. 1999; Mills 1999).

For products providing 1000-3,000 mg eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) + docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) + docosapentaenoic acid (DPA) including at least 340 mg EPA, per day:

Helps to reduce serum triglycerides/triacylglycerols (Mann  et al. 2010; Meyer  et al. 2009).
Helps support cardiovascular health (Mann  et al. 2010; Meyer  et al. 2009).
 
2014-01-11 01:05:38 PM  
Are we gonna have a discussion, or is there just gonna be a monster sarcasm rally?
 
2014-01-11 01:06:36 PM  
Depends on diet and culture. 

I'm not a true believer in homeopathy however I do remember reading studies about Vitamin C actively improving our immune systems-  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16373990 

Also we have given our soldiers supplemental vitamin A to improve night vision...Many people who cannot make it outside benefit from vitamin D, and B12 supplementation in the elderly populace is becoming more common.

And most OBs tend to keep their patient's on prenatal vitamins for the folic acid benefits which may or may not have other medical usages.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folic_acid 

Patented pharmaceutial brand name drugs versus a 3 cent a day multivitamin.
 
2014-01-11 01:06:51 PM  

StoPPeRmobile: JSTACAT: Those who live like sheep, and can not originate thoughts of their own, or manage free will, they are doomed to a short, obese, sick life. Excellent slave stock.

"does not play well with others"


Well, to be fair, in olden times, i would still be the top predator.
Cute my way into the palace, supplant the royal son, kill the king, etc.
done it so often...
The "playin" is food prep; adrenaline  tenderizes the meat.
 
2014-01-11 01:11:02 PM  

KawaiiNot: There might be something to this.

All I know is that I take quality vitamins every day and my health, energy, moods & life is way better than the years I didn't take them. I think I'll stick to what works for me.


Same here, i am my own Doc. not ashamed to borrow, test and analyse-apply research of others.
 
2014-01-11 01:13:26 PM  

BigLuca: SkerriNinja:
Oh my god, this. I work in an investigational drug pharmacy. I read the protocols and wonder how on earth people are going to make money on some of this stuff. But then I realize that when we raise issues with sponsors, we're doing all the legwork for them. God forbid I get a pharmacy manual written by people with pharmacy knowledge. It's always written by someone with no inherent knowledge of what a pharmacist actually does.

Does you company hire any pharmD's or MD's at all for anything? Just curious.


I work at a medical university. We are the pharmacy that maintains the investigational drugs on trial throughout the uni. We are part of the National Cancer Institute, and have been doing research for over 30 years. We have hundreds of MDs conducting research, and we have clinical pharmacists as well as the 3 that work in my department in particular.
 
2014-01-11 01:15:55 PM  

Your Neighborhood Pessimist: AMonkey'sUncle: FunkOut: AMonkey'sUncle: A Terrible Human: Vitamins are a crock of shiat. If you buy into them you're farking stupid and not eating properly if you're so deficient in vitamins.
/Same with that homeopathy garbage.

What gets me is this new gummy vitamin chew for adults. No more hard-to-swallow pills! Good grief, we're getting soft.

It's primarily aimed at people with bad teeth and people with swallowing issues. A number of people with throat issues who have to use CPAP machines also have issues with choking on pills and certain kinds of food. And we're not talking about just really heavy people, some people have congenital defects with their palate and esophagus the cause snoring, sleep apnea, etc.

No problem understanding those situations, but the chews are marketed to young adults, if you go by the ads.

If people are more inclined to do something regularly if it's not unpleasant experience, how is that a bad thing?

Or are you the type to insist on getting a urethra examination via a rigid cystoscope rather than the modern fiber optic tubes?


Can this be one thread that's not about a personal kink?

Jeez, the pervs around here!
 
2014-01-11 01:17:07 PM  
An article about how modern medicine is involved in a conspiracy against "far more effective" and "natural" remedies? On a site called "treehugger"?

This is my shocked face.

/I'm willing to bet I find at least one anti-vax article on there.
//Bonus points if they endorse the use of colloidal silver as an antibiotic.
 
2014-01-11 01:17:42 PM  

Astorix: rzrwiresunrise: How did we ever survive without multi-vitamins for thousands of years? By eating good food, not junk food, you say? Funny, sounds like something my DOCTOR would say.

The whole vitamin, supplement, dietary aid and herb industry is the most unregulated and chock full of bad science, pseudo science, and actual harm. Remember the rash of deaths from ephedra? Then there is ginseng, which has been shown to cause blood pressure spikes. Recently a threat was posted about green tea extract causing liver damage.

As much as I hate big pharma, I distrust the lack of oversight in the multi-billion selling "herb and supplement" industry.


Yeah, there is no science that supports herbal supplement benefits. Wait...what...

And of course we all know no one every gets hurt by drugs pushed by the Pharma Industry.
 
2014-01-11 01:19:53 PM  

Primum non nocere: I'm a physician, and here's my prescription for you Farkers:

How 'bout just eat healthy?!?

Study after study demonstrates that when you strip-out the micronutrient from its source, the benefit is lost. Taking fish-oil capsules is of no benefit, but eating fish is. Taking vitamin E alone is of no benefit, but eating broccoli and sunflower seeds is. Etc.

But I know, I'm just a pawn in this Grand Conspiracy.


Of course *you'd* say that while rolling around in your giant pile of free pharmaceutical company pens.
 
2014-01-11 01:20:00 PM  

azxj: The one thing (so I've heard) that a multivitamin is good for is passing a drug test.  They'll fail you if your pee is too clear, so drink a ton of water and then take a multivitamin to color your pee.


That worked 15 year ago, but these days they check for protein and stuff, so your best case with that is that you'd get an 'inconclusive', which is basically a fail, or they'd want you to retest. Lose-Lose either way.
 
2014-01-11 01:44:14 PM  
yes, most doctors went into medicine to do good and most have done extremely well.
 
2014-01-11 01:52:04 PM  

A Terrible Human: Vitamins are a crock of shiat. If you buy into them you're farking stupid and not eating properly if you're so deficient in vitamins.
/Same with that homeopathy garbage.


Yeah!  Better living through chemicals instead!

/enjoy your cancer
 
2014-01-11 01:58:29 PM  
Society tells us that we should work at being healthy, but neglects to define 'healthy'. (What various vitamins and minerals do, how much you need, what the signs of deficiencies or overdoses are, and what foods they come from sure wasn't covered in my high school.) People are busy but they want to do something to make themselves 'healthy'. They take a multivitamin because it is relatively cheap and easy and  makes up for a variety of deficiencies (whether they have them or not) due to a poor diet. It allows them to feel good about 'doing something healthy' with little thought or effort.

dr;tl: multivitamins are used by people to lazy or busy to independently look up what all the various vitamins and minerals do.


JSTACAT: KawaiiNot: There might be something to this.

All I know is that I take quality vitamins every day and my health, energy, moods & life is way better than the years I didn't take them. I think I'll stick to what works for me.

Same here, i am my own Doc. not ashamed to borrow, test and analyse-apply research of others.


This
Everyone should be responsible for their own health. This idea that you shouldn't do anything unless a doctor tells you to is damaging to the public health and wastes the time of doctors who have more serious things to pay attention to (I need a doctor to tell me to stay in bed with the flu rather than go to work/school - really?). If you are having health issues (not 'I want to be young again' or 'I want to be skinny without diet or exercise'), research them. When I am thinking of taking a supplement, I look at what data there is to support it and what against it. I look at what the signs are for deficiencies (and make sure I have them) and what the overdose symptoms are (so I can watch for them). If I take a supplement I watch for an effect. If it doesn't have one, I stop taking it. This isn't rocket science.
 
2014-01-11 02:05:12 PM  
Buddy of mine is an OB/GYN. He once made a comment about how worthless a particular vitamin is. Now my ex-wife's uncle writes grants for a medical school specifically about vitamins and nutrition. He is extremely enthusiastic about that same vitamin based on specific study outcomes.

I brought up those studies and asked him his thoughts about the results. Did he disagree with the methodologies or the interpretation of the results?

Turns out that in Med school he had one class on nutrition in his first semester and that was it. And he had seen it mostly as a waste of time. And he had no intention of reading any research on nutrition because it was a waste of time keeping up on any research.

That floored me. He is the primary care physician for a lot of women-- when they want to lose weight he is the doctor they are advised to talk with first to make sure they don't endanger themselves.

But apparently doctors don't get training on this stuff. Sometimes they just parrot what they are told by various lobbyist and trade groups and don't care what even legit peer-reviewed research at major medical schools have to say.

My own doctor admitted that he pretty much knew the symptoms of scurvy, beri-beri and other high profile pathologies relating to deficiencies and didn't even try to keep up with nutrition science. He consults with a nutritionist about deficiencies in lab results before presenting them to the patient and that's it.

In other words for years now I haven't felt doctors to be competent to discuss these things. They don't have the training, and unless they have a book to sell they don't do the research on their own.

/learned more about nutrition and health in a single anthropology class than a doctor learns in Med school
//that MD doesn't grant omniscience
 
2014-01-11 02:12:37 PM  

SkerriNinja: We are the pharmacy that maintains the investigational drugs


My brain parsed this as "recreational drugs", which was a lot more amusing.

I wonder whether anyone's done a 3-month double-blind study of a random group of people who weren't taking any vitamins. These people would get either a multivitamin or a placebo, and each person did a daily "How I feel right now" report. Would you find any statistically significant difference between the placebo group and the multivitamin group? How about if you gave each person a physical before and after the 3-month period? Would there be any differences in these things? Or would there be too much statistical noise from other crap? Heck. I could do this experiment with a sample size of just me, but I don't think it'd provide much that was useful.

Theodore Dalrymple, a British M.D., worked in a prison for a while, and he said something like, "When we started giving prisoners daily vitamins, the number of discipline problems and people acting like dumbasses decreased" in Our Culture, What's Left of It. OK, OK, one guy's report != data.
 
2014-01-11 02:30:00 PM  

sno man: jake_lex: Hey, if you take a lot of supplements, your piss will be loaded with vitamins and minerals, and thus you'll be recycling them back into the ecosystem!  It's a win-win!

hehe... That's all we need, 'roided up Asian Carp.


It'll pass through their system, too.
 
2014-01-11 02:30:46 PM  

supayoda: An article about how modern medicine is involved in a conspiracy against "far more effective" and "natural" remedies? On a site called "treehugger"?

This is my shocked face.

/I'm willing to bet I find at least one anti-vax article on there.
//Bonus points if they endorse the use of colloidal silver as an antibiotic.


Just a small caveat: silver compounds are used extensively in modern Western medicine (burn care, ET tubes, catheters, topical ulcer management, etc.) so while oral silver as an antibiotic has been out of favor since WWI, don't discount other compounds.

/worked in burn ICU
 
2014-01-11 02:30:56 PM  
My own experience with supplements:

1)  SAM-e has been extremely effective at treating/preventing my depressive episodes.

2)  St. John's Wort has had no noticeable effect.

3)  Valerian gives me the craziest nightmares.  Not doing that again.

4)  3mg of melatonin makes me a zombie.  1 mg helps me get to sleep.

5)  5HTP has had no effect.

6)  B-complex supps have been recommended to me because of my stress/anxiety issues.  The only effect I've noticed is really funny pee colors.

7)  GABA gives me really really bad headaches.

8) Ginko biloba has made a significant reduction in my tinitus.

9)  Mineral supplements have made no effect of my health/quality of life.

10)  My wife really really hates the number of bottles I have in the cabinet.
 
2014-01-11 02:39:00 PM  

BolloxReader: Buddy of mine is an OB/GYN. He once made a comment about how worthless a particular vitamin is. Now my ex-wife's uncle writes grants for a medical school specifically about vitamins and nutrition. He is extremely enthusiastic about that same vitamin based on specific study outcomes.

I brought up those studies and asked him his thoughts about the results. Did he disagree with the methodologies or the interpretation of the results?

Turns out that in Med school he had one class on nutrition in his first semester and that was it. And he had seen it mostly as a waste of time. And he had no intention of reading any research on nutrition because it was a waste of time keeping up on any research.

That floored me. He is the primary care physician for a lot of women-- when they want to lose weight he is the doctor they are advised to talk with first to make sure they don't endanger themselves.

But apparently doctors don't get training on this stuff. Sometimes they just parrot what they are told by various lobbyist and trade groups and don't care what even legit peer-reviewed research at major medical schools have to say.

My own doctor admitted that he pretty much knew the symptoms of scurvy, beri-beri and other high profile pathologies relating to deficiencies and didn't even try to keep up with nutrition science. He consults with a nutritionist about deficiencies in lab results before presenting them to the patient and that's it.

In other words for years now I haven't felt doctors to be competent to discuss these things. They don't have the training, and unless they have a book to sell they don't do the research on their own.

/learned more about nutrition and health in a single anthropology class than a doctor learns in Med school
//that MD doesn't grant omniscience


Generally, you're right. During training physicians are exposed to an unbelievable number of medical conditions, and it's certainly impossible to be an expert in them all. Ex: don't ask a dermatologist about management of Cushing's disease...he hasn't seen it since med school. That being said, if your friend is a primary care doctor and doesn't know or care enough about nutrition, then he is not doing his due diligence. That preventative type of medicine is core to his practice. There is a reason doctors are required to do a tremendous amount of CME (continuing medical education) to maintain their licensure. On top of that almost every specialty Board requires re-upping their Board certification every few years, which pushes the doctor to learn even MORE about their specialty than basic CME does. Education doesn't stop with the diploma.
 
2014-01-11 02:42:47 PM  
fazapops.com
Would this man lie to you?
 
2014-01-11 02:43:01 PM  
Assuming you're not eating some sort of weird "all white castle" diet, why in the world would your body need a multivitamin? A normal diet provides everything you need and you just end up pissing out any excess.

/took a multivitamin for over a decade everyday, still got sick and noticing no damned difference since having been off it for years
 
2014-01-11 02:45:09 PM  
My doctor recommended a multi-vitamin (but not one of those mega-dose vitamins) because of medication I am on which acts as a diuretic and causes me to lose some vitamins and minerals more quickly.  But there is a difference between a regular vitamin and some of the quack vitamins where people recommend huge doses of things, some of which can be toxic.  There is a lot of stupidity in this area where folks say "its all natural so how can it hurt you" and "more is obviously better" and actually poison people.
 
2014-01-11 02:47:26 PM  

BolloxReader: Buddy of mine is an OB/GYN. He once made a comment about how worthless a particular vitamin is...In other words for years now I haven't felt doctors to be competent to discuss these things.


Wow, you really proved the worth of dietary supplements by telling an anecdote about a gynecologist's comment about one vitamin.
 
2014-01-11 02:53:22 PM  

BunkyBrewman: Sybarite: "Enter 'vitamins are useless' articles. The more you're presented with official-sounding data that erodes your confidence in self-care, the more you'll relinquish yourself to the seriously dysfunctional U.S. health care system. And that means the more you'll rely on surgery, prescription drugs, and health insurance."

Yes, we certainly wouldn't want any "official-sounding data" to steer you toward proven methods of treating diseases and away from chicanery.

[gogd.tjs-labs.com image 850x1090]


And Time says people were all talking about global cooling in the 70s.

This is an indictment of the popular press, not doctors.
 
2014-01-11 02:54:56 PM  
Can someone explain to me why, if vitamins are really so effective, why Big Pharma doesn't just produce those and rebrand them at a huge mark-up instead of spending billions of dollars researching new drugs?

/already know the answer
//It's because vitamin's aren't as effective as real drugs
 
2014-01-11 03:00:55 PM  

vicioushobbit: Astorix: rzrwiresunrise: How did we ever survive without multi-vitamins for thousands of years? By eating good food, not junk food, you say? Funny, sounds like something my DOCTOR would say.

The whole vitamin, supplement, dietary aid and herb industry is the most unregulated and chock full of bad science, pseudo science, and actual harm. Remember the rash of deaths from ephedra? Then there is ginseng, which has been shown to cause blood pressure spikes. Recently a threat was posted about green tea extract causing liver damage.
These extracts and concentrations are unnatural and the manufacturers often cheat by putting unnatural things into them.

Traditional Chinese Medicines one of the worst offenders.

As much as I hate big pharma, I distrust the lack of oversight in the multi-billion selling "herb and supplement" industry.

Having worked within the herbal supplement industry on as an internal compliance officer, I heartily agree with you.  Big pharma is an industry, and like any industry will lie to its consumers to make money.  The dietary supplement industry is no better, but they sure as hell will pretend to be.


The only thing I hate more than a liar is a projectionist. And most of the herbal supplement industry is projectionism writ large. Even if "Big Pharma" does do everything that you say, that doesn't mean you don't do it, too. And lying about your projectionism is the top of a three layer deceit cake that I don't wanna eat.
 
2014-01-11 03:03:19 PM  
If I don't take my calcium I get the worst nocturnal leg cramps.  And since I started taking vitamin C I hardly ever get a cold, so there's that too.
 
2014-01-11 03:11:53 PM  

EmmaLou: Bumblefark: EmmaLou: What ever happened to just including fruits and vegetables in your diet?

We had my wife's family over for the holidays -- the whole clan, for about 3 weeks. (*shudder*) Every dinner I served included at least one side of vegetables, often two. And not weird foodie stuff; just the standards, like green beans, corn, carrots, green salad, etc, prepared in the usual ways.

Never saw them eat a single veggie, neither the children nor the adults. I would have bothered to have been horrified, but that's probably not very atypical, nowadays...

I was visiting my in laws with my mom and step father. They served a nice fresh garden salad with dinner, and my step father proclaimed loudly "I don't eat salad." That's probably why his heart function is at 20%, he has the diabeetus, and he weighs about 400 pounds.

I don't understand the dislike of vegetables that so many people seem to have.


Most people would rather have their veggies in chip form, it seems.
 
2014-01-11 03:13:34 PM  
Does Wonder Bread build strong bodies 8 ways or 12?
 
2014-01-11 03:16:47 PM  

LoneWolf343: Can someone explain to me why, if vitamins are really so effective, why Big Pharma doesn't just produce those and rebrand them at a huge mark-up instead of spending billions of dollars researching new drugs?

/already know the answer
//It's because vitamin's aren't as effective as real drugs


Do you not understand what supplement means? It contributes or enhances. The body has requirements that need to be met. If you are missing any, the supplement provides what is missing. Anything more, your body removes.

Why would they deny themselves one form of revenue for another? They can make money on both because both are useful when used as intended. You don't take your limp-dick pills when you have hemorrhoid flare-up after all. If you start seeing signs of vitamin c deficiency, you don't use Visine. If you can't get your vitamins naturally, you take a supplement.

Vitamins are just as effective for their intended purpose.
 
2014-01-11 03:17:27 PM  

Robin Hoodie: I take fish oil, St John's Wort, Multi-vitamins, Vit D supplement, Vit C supplement,  cherry flavor Flintstone kids,  small rocks, raw egg shells, acai berry extract, and baby aspirin, and I am never sick. So obviously I've found the perfect combination of health supplements, studies be damned!

/also i eat the one volcano burrito each month for a colon cleanse


We could use more than a single data point to evaluate your claim.
 
2014-01-11 03:31:52 PM  
Terrible Old Man:
/took a multivitamin for over a decade everyday, still got sick and noticing no damned difference since having been off it for years

However, you drank mucho alcohol then and now, amirite?
Alcohol is well known for its abilities to destroy organs, muscle tissue, nerve cells, complex proteins and... vitamins.
Alcohol is a germ killer, and you are made of germs [cells]
 
2014-01-11 03:34:56 PM  

ReverendJynxed: LoneWolf343: Can someone explain to me why, if vitamins are really so effective, why Big Pharma doesn't just produce those and rebrand them at a huge mark-up instead of spending billions of dollars researching new drugs?

/already know the answer
//It's because vitamin's aren't as effective as real drugs

Do you not understand what supplement means? It contributes or enhances. The body has requirements that need to be met. If you are missing any, the supplement provides what is missing. Anything more, your body removes.

Why would they deny themselves one form of revenue for another? They can make money on both because both are useful when used as intended. You don't take your limp-dick pills when you have hemorrhoid flare-up after all. If you start seeing signs of vitamin c deficiency, you don't use Visine. If you can't get your vitamins naturally, you take a supplement.

Vitamins are just as effective for their intended purpose.


If you live in an industrialized country and eat a reasonable variety of things, chances are that you don't have a vitamin deficiency, at least not so much that vitamins supplements are needed to correct it.
 
2014-01-11 03:52:28 PM  

LoneWolf343: ReverendJynxed: LoneWolf343: Can someone explain to me why, if vitamins are really so effective, why Big Pharma doesn't just produce those and rebrand them at a huge mark-up instead of spending billions of dollars researching new drugs?

/already know the answer
//It's because vitamin's aren't as effective as real drugs

Do you not understand what supplement means? It contributes or enhances. The body has requirements that need to be met. If you are missing any, the supplement provides what is missing. Anything more, your body removes.

Why would they deny themselves one form of revenue for another? They can make money on both because both are useful when used as intended. You don't take your limp-dick pills when you have hemorrhoid flare-up after all. If you start seeing signs of vitamin c deficiency, you don't use Visine. If you can't get your vitamins naturally, you take a supplement.

Vitamins are just as effective for their intended purpose.

If you live in an industrialized country and eat a reasonable variety of things, chances are that you don't have a vitamin deficiency, at least not so much that vitamins supplements are needed to correct it.


That doesn't take away that they have an intended purpose and are useful for such.
 
2014-01-11 04:40:22 PM  
Pssst.... Big Pharma makes vitamins too.
 
2014-01-11 04:48:54 PM  
The derp is strong in this thread.
 
2014-01-11 05:03:03 PM  

LoneWolf343: Can someone explain to me why, if vitamins are really so effective, why Big Pharma doesn't just produce those and rebrand them at a huge mark-up instead of spending billions of dollars researching new drugs?

/already know the answer
//It's because vitamin's aren't as effective as real drugs


Well, Big Pharma does produce vitamins (Pfizer produces Centrum, for example). But markup has a couple components built in: urgency and degree. Most of the big drugs Pharma concentrates on has to do with conditions that MUST be treated ASAP. That urgency and the degree of the condition mean that they get much more profit from a drug that treats that specific condition than from a multi-vitamin that isn't urgently needed and is taken over a long period of time.
 
2014-01-11 05:29:56 PM  
Wow. This is a first. I criticized the modmin for greenlighting this turd of an article and got my message deleted. In nine years of Farking, I have never had a comment deleted before. Modmins have always taken their licks like men.

Watch this one go too, and watch me pick up a "ban" (lol, whatever will I do without Fark?) Oh, dear. Where is this site headed?
 
2014-01-11 05:46:56 PM  
Too bad most supplements aren't regulated.  Never know what you're getting. Could be just rice powder or....

Seriously, google the company you get your supplements and vitamins from.  See all the spammy affiliates, fake reviews and shady third party that doesn't exist seal of approvals.
 
2014-01-11 06:21:31 PM  
I take vitamins.  I also have the strength of fifteen robots.

Coincidence?  Who knows?

Don't make me smash.
 
2014-01-11 06:38:03 PM  

Theory Of Null: Seriously, google the company you get your supplements and vitamins from. See all the spammy affiliates, fake reviews and shady third party that doesn't exist seal of approvals.


My supplier is Amway, so I know it's legit.
 
hej
2014-01-11 06:51:20 PM  

CowardlyLion: hej: rzrwiresunrise: How did we ever survive without multi-vitamins for thousands of years? By eating good food, not junk food, you say? Funny, sounds like something my DOCTOR would say.

To be fair, for "thousands of years" people had significantly shorter life spans.

If you mean life expectancy, then, yeah, obviously; medicine and technology has improved considerably over those thousands of years. If you meant that human were incapable of living as long as the past as we do now, then you're just wrong.


jaytkay: NutWrench: jaytkay: Man On A Mission: long-proven vitamin and mineral supplements

Proven when? By who?

By folks who didn't get scurvy and rickets?

Scurvy and rickets are prevented by nutrients in food, not "supplements".

Liar. Everyone who doesn't routinely take supplements has scurvy and rickets. It's nearly impossible to absorb any nutrients by consuming food and beverages.


Yes, I meant expectancy.
 
2014-01-11 06:53:20 PM  

IlGreven: sno man: jake_lex: Hey, if you take a lot of supplements, your piss will be loaded with vitamins and minerals, and thus you'll be recycling them back into the ecosystem!  It's a win-win!

hehe... That's all we need, 'roided up Asian Carp.

It'll pass through their system, too.


EVERYBODY PANIC  'roid rage zebra mussles coming to a lake near you...
 
2014-01-11 06:59:27 PM  
Anti-depressants exist, and yet every single clinical trial involving SSRI anti-depressants showed that while they DO work, they do NOT work any better than placebos.

So I'm kind of wary to trust the pharmaceutical industry.

I had a doctor tell me that smoking weed can cause lung cancer.

So I'm kind of wary to trust doctors.
 
2014-01-11 07:11:38 PM  

Tommy Moo: Wow. This is a first. I criticized the modmin for greenlighting this turd of an article and got my message deleted. In nine years of Farking, I have never had a comment deleted before. Modmins have always taken their licks like men.

Watch this one go too, and watch me pick up a "ban" (lol, whatever will I do without Fark?) Oh, dear. Where is this site headed?


It's headed for the depths of Hell and that's the way we like it.
 
2014-01-11 08:00:03 PM  

moeburn: Anti-depressants exist, and yet every single clinical trial involving SSRI anti-depressants showed that while they DO work, they do NOT work any better than placebos.

So I'm kind of wary to trust the pharmaceutical industry.

I had a doctor tell me that smoking weed can cause lung cancer.

So I'm kind of wary to trust doctors.


I would bet some money that inhaling any kind of smoke increases risk of lung cancer.

/maybe you should eat your damned pot
 
2014-01-11 09:06:40 PM  
Well, maybe if I did follow the daily allowances that people my age are supposed to have.  And eat enough food to make me sick in order to keep up with them, I wouldn't have to take vitamins for the bone aches in my arms that have been reduced to almost nothing the past 5 years.

However.  The basic food groups we've supposedly known about for years and the daily allowances to go with them, would make me have some bad stomach reactions if I tried to eat the amount I'm supposed to.  It's been that way since 1995.

Some will say "But, those stomach bacteria medications things".  Good.  But how does it handle the fact I feel sick from trying to shove food down my throat and into my stomach when I stopped being hungry an hour ago.
 
2014-01-11 09:52:56 PM  

Tommy Moo: Wow. This is a first. I criticized the modmin for greenlighting this turd of an article and got my message deleted. In nine years of Farking, I have never had a comment deleted before. Modmins have always taken their licks like men.

Watch this one go too, and watch me pick up a "ban" (lol, whatever will I do without Fark?) Oh, dear. Where is this site headed?


You're not the only one who's noticed the turn this site has taken.
 
2014-01-11 10:13:11 PM  
pfft... I went to a doctor once who was selling multivitamins right out of his office.  Even wrote me a "prescription" for them.

\emphasis on "once"
 
2014-01-11 10:52:40 PM  
So would this be a supplement worth taking or is this a scam?

http://www.serovital.com/
 
2014-01-11 11:30:37 PM  

sno man: IlGreven: It'll pass through their system, too
EVERYBODY PANIC  'roid rage zebra mussles coming to a lake near you...


If those sonsabiatches keep multiplying, the Great Lakes will fill up with them, and half the cities in Michigan and Canada will be flooded like the days of Noah's ark!  Then the snakeheads will eat you all.
 
2014-01-12 02:40:13 AM  

Bumblefark: EmmaLou: What ever happened to just including fruits and vegetables in your diet?

We had my wife's family over for the holidays -- the whole clan, for about 3 weeks. (*shudder*) Every dinner I served included at least one side of vegetables, often two. And not weird foodie stuff; just the standards, like green beans, corn, carrots, green salad, etc, prepared in the usual ways.

Never saw them eat a single veggie, neither the children nor the adults. I would have bothered to have been horrified, but that's probably not very atypical, nowadays...


ACK! Corn is a starch, not a vegetable!
 
2014-01-12 05:30:38 AM  

Smeggy Smurf: A Terrible Human: Vitamins are a crock of shiat. If you buy into them you're farking stupid and not eating properly if you're so deficient in vitamins.
/Same with that homeopathy garbage.

Yeah!  Better living through chemicals instead!

/enjoy your cancer


Enjoy your smug disbelief in science? Are you also one of those idiots who don't believe in vaccines cause if so please don't breed.
 
2014-01-12 12:53:05 PM  

moeburn: Anti-depressants exist, and yet every single clinical trial involving SSRI anti-depressants showed that while they DO work, they do NOT work any better than placebos.

So I'm kind of wary to trust the pharmaceutical industry.

I had a doctor tell me that smoking weed can cause lung cancer.

So I'm kind of wary to trust doctors.


If the SSRI part was true, then no research paper would get published in a reputable journal that could make the claim that it works.

I have a feeling that you're just making shiat up.
 
2014-01-12 01:56:03 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: A Terrible Human: Vitamins are a crock of shiat. If you buy into them you're farking stupid and not eating properly if you're so deficient in vitamins.
/Same with that homeopathy garbage.

Yeah!  Better living through chemicals instead!

/enjoy your cancer


Your own body produces a large variety of chemicals with long scary names as part of natural functions. Get an education.

/Or, maybe your body specifically is producing something toxic for your brain.
 
2014-01-12 02:00:59 PM  

FunkOut: AMonkey'sUncle: FunkOut: AMonkey'sUncle: A Terrible Human: Vitamins are a crock of shiat. If you buy into them you're farking stupid and not eating properly if you're so deficient in vitamins.
/Same with that homeopathy garbage.

What gets me is this new gummy vitamin chew for adults. No more hard-to-swallow pills! Good grief, we're getting soft.

It's primarily aimed at people with bad teeth and people with swallowing issues. A number of people with throat issues who have to use CPAP machines also have issues with choking on pills and certain kinds of food. And we're not talking about just really heavy people, some people have congenital defects with their palate and esophagus the cause snoring, sleep apnea, etc.

No problem understanding those situations, but the chews are marketed to young adults, if you go by the ads.

Between Netflix for TV and all the adblock I've got in the computer, I go for days without seeing ads. When I do see an ad somewhere, it's kind of surprising.

Next up : sippy cups for people who just can't be bothered with not pouring a whole cup of liquid on their face.



You don't get out much, do you?

img.fark.net
What do you call this, if not a sippy cup for adults?

Adblockers, you got blinders on to the world, jack!
img.fark.net
 
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