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(Mirror.co.uk)   Here's the story of the man who saved Hitler's life in WWI. And you thought YOU had regrets   (mirror.co.uk) divider line 115
    More: Interesting, Hitler, Henry Tandey, Victoria Cross, German Army, Luftwaffe  
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10676 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Jan 2014 at 12:16 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



115 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-01-10 09:09:43 PM  
i277.photobucket.com
 
2014-01-10 09:50:53 PM  
I wish I could sit this guy down and explain to him that he has  no reason at all to regret what he did. He didn't 'spare Hitler'; he refused to fire on a fleeing stranger. What Hitler did afterwards is his own damn fault and no one else's, and this man has both courage and compassion. There is never a reason to regret an honorable action.
 
2014-01-10 11:56:48 PM  
"But if I'd only known who he would turn out to be... I'd give 10 years now to have five minutes of clairvoyance then."

Everybody kills Hitler on their first trip.
 
2014-01-11 12:15:49 AM  
For want of a nail...
 
2014-01-11 12:19:44 AM  
mooselicker.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-01-11 12:19:53 AM  

fusillade762: "But if I'd only known who he would turn out to be... I'd give 10 years now to have five minutes of clairvoyance then."

Everybody kills Hitler on their first trip.


The implications of his statement are pretty chilling. He wishes he had murdered a wounded soldier in cold blood.
 
2014-01-11 12:20:04 AM  
Yeah, I dunno....Hitler turned out to be a pretty good enemy, in terms of fighting the war. Suppose someone SANE had been at the helm of Nazi Germany? No stop-order at Dunkirk would have made all the difference between winning and losing for the Allies.
 
2014-01-11 12:23:17 AM  
Heard to say "Oops, my bad"
 
2014-01-11 12:23:39 AM  
s2.quickmeme.com
 
2014-01-11 12:24:12 AM  
Hitler was a nobody back then, and this guy wasn't psychic so no harm done on his part.
 
2014-01-11 12:24:18 AM  

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: fusillade762: "But if I'd only known who he would turn out to be... I'd give 10 years now to have five minutes of clairvoyance then."

Everybody kills Hitler on their first trip.

The implications of his statement are pretty chilling. He wishes he had murdered a wounded soldier in cold blood.


I have on pretty good authority so did many americans after they liberated belsen. no more prisoners. nein.
 
2014-01-11 12:24:18 AM  
We'd still have Obama though...

/jk
 
2014-01-11 12:24:26 AM  
you know who else had regrets...  hint: probably shouldn't have invaded Russia so close to winter.
 
2014-01-11 12:26:37 AM  

SilentStrider: For want of a nail...


knee
arrow
you  know the drill
 
2014-01-11 12:27:01 AM  
and to think how many people I walk past and don't kill, every single day, who might live to go onto become even worse than Hitler.
 
2014-01-11 12:28:28 AM  
i.huffpost.com
 
2014-01-11 12:30:38 AM  
Obviously we should kill everybody we ever meet if given the chance to ensure no future Adolf Hitlers come to pass.

www.empireonline.com
 
2014-01-11 12:33:58 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Yeah, I dunno....Hitler turned out to be a pretty good enemy, in terms of fighting the war. Suppose someone SANE had been at the helm of Nazi Germany? No stop-order at Dunkirk would have made all the difference between winning and losing for the Allies.


Yup. That's why time travelers are not allowed to kill him. Do you know how much work it was to change history so Rommel didn't end up in charge? Or to make sure that Heydrich caught a bomb in Prague?
As horrific as the toll was, it could have been worse. And was, in some possible timelines.
 
2014-01-11 12:34:30 AM  
If this soldier had killed Hitler instead of sparing him, then someone else probably would have risen to power and more or less done the same thing. Maybe someone even more competent. You never know.
 
2014-01-11 12:36:16 AM  

Omahawg:


I thought Shea LeBoof said that, not Hitler.
 
2014-01-11 12:42:49 AM  

mome23: Gyrfalcon: Yeah, I dunno....Hitler turned out to be a pretty good enemy, in terms of fighting the war. Suppose someone SANE had been at the helm of Nazi Germany? No stop-order at Dunkirk would have made all the difference between winning and losing for the Allies.

Yup. That's why time travelers are not allowed to kill him. Do you know how much work it was to change history so Rommel didn't end up in charge? Or to make sure that Heydrich caught a bomb in Prague?
As horrific as the toll was, it could have been worse. And was, in some possible timelines.


exactly! ... and that is just looking from a very small macro standpoint. If the events of WWII had even been slightly altered and even if the Allies finally won the war, this world would be very different today because it would've thrown the entire dynamics of the ensuing cold war into disarray. Heck for all we know if the cold war had been a different kind, WWIII may have already happened and we all won't even be here today talking about it.
another reason why I don't believe time travel is possible because altering world history is just too damn dangerous and unpredictable that the very laws of nature just won't allow it!!
 
2014-01-11 12:43:07 AM  

Omahawg: I have on pretty good authority so did many americans after they liberated belsen. no more prisoners. nein.


Those would have been killings to avenge something that had already taken place, rather than passing a sentence on actions a person had yet to make.
 
2014-01-11 12:43:44 AM  

XMark: If this soldier had killed Hitler instead of sparing him, then someone else probably would have risen to power and more or less done the same thing. Maybe someone even more competent. You never know.


This. Hitler wasn't the only person who was a German nationalist after World War I and had hatred towards the Jews
 
2014-01-11 12:44:13 AM  

PsiChick: I wish I could sit this guy down and explain to him that he has  no reason at all to regret what he did. He didn't 'spare Hitler'; he refused to fire on a fleeing stranger. What Hitler did afterwards is his own damn fault and no one else's, and this man has both courage and compassion. There is never a reason to regret an honorable action.


For once, I agree with PsiChick.

Acting with honor is never cause for regret.
 
2014-01-11 12:44:32 AM  
Sounds sketchy, but I suppose it could have been the right guy. Probably just a story ol' Adolph concocted to grease Chamberlain.
 
2014-01-11 12:44:54 AM  
i2.mirror.co.uk

This looks Photoshopped. lol
 
2014-01-11 12:45:34 AM  
Dubious story is dubious.
 
2014-01-11 12:50:40 AM  
But then there'd be no "The Producers".
 
2014-01-11 12:50:45 AM  
Indiana Jones could have killed him, too.
 
2014-01-11 01:00:02 AM  

PsiChick: I wish I could sit this guy down and explain to him that he has  no reason at all to regret what he did. He didn't 'spare Hitler'; he refused to fire on a fleeing stranger. What Hitler did afterwards is his own damn fault and no one else's, and this man has both courage and compassion. There is never a reason to regret an honorable action.


This
 
2014-01-11 01:00:17 AM  
"Yeah, you betcha I have even more serious regrets....I voted for Barabass to go free."
 
2014-01-11 01:01:15 AM  
stream1.gifsoup.com
 
2014-01-11 01:03:45 AM  
This man seems like the finest form of humanity to me. Rarest of courage and a great sense of honor, I would have been proud to know him.
 
2014-01-11 01:07:07 AM  
Wouldn't have made a difference. If it wasn't him, it would have been someone else, and even without the Nazis, there was still Japan to worry about, who, if you recall, basically Started the war with their invasion of China.
 
2014-01-11 01:08:35 AM  

Ooba Tooba: Sounds sketchy, but I suppose it could have been the right guy. Probably just a story ol' Adolph concocted to grease Chamberlain.




My thoughts exactly. Just a story to try and win some time from Chamberlain to invade Austria.
 
2014-01-11 01:12:12 AM  

PsiChick: I wish I could sit this guy down and explain to him that he has  no reason at all to regret what he did. He didn't 'spare Hitler'; he refused to fire on a fleeing stranger. What Hitler did afterwards is his own damn fault and no one else's, and this man has both courage and compassion. There is never a reason to regret an honorable action.


You can't contact him psychically?

Anyway, as children, this future priest saved Hitler from drowning:

i.dailymail.co.uk
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2082640/How-year-old-Adolf-H it ler-saved-certain-death--drowning-icy-river-rescued.html


joshuapreston.files.wordpress.com

And if Wittgenstein, a Jew, was nicer to little Adolph in the playground and didn't tease him about his paintings, which he and the other boys deemed 'ghey'.

If only...
 
2014-01-11 01:13:04 AM  

vharshyde: Japan to worry about, who, if you recall, basically Started the war


Which one? Japan started a lot of wars.
 
2014-01-11 01:13:59 AM  
I'm not sure if it could have been worse... WWII was very horrific
 
2014-01-11 01:18:18 AM  

DreamSnipers: This man seems like the finest form of humanity to me. Rarest of courage and a great sense of honor, I would have been proud to know him.


You sound aryan.

But in all serious, everything that has needed to be said has been said. This guy acted honorably. If he killed Hitler, congratulations... nothing would have changed other than maybe someone without  syphilis eating their brain causing them to make horrible decisions being in charge of the extermination of the jews. Maybe they even get wiped out entirely. Maybe we lose WW2. Maybe we never enter WW2 when we do and they take out the USSR and then come for us.

And for that price, all we have to pay is one honorable human being executing a wounded human being in cold blood and living with the knowledge they murdered someone in cold blood.

But this isn't a What If scenario. This is how history unfolded. The things that happened had to have happened the way they did, for better or for worse. What is important is we learn from history's mistakes, not ask ourselves "Well what if we did this differently..."

That is not how progress is made. Stuck on what we could have done differently is counterproductive to what decisions we make now in the present.

We've all helped human beings who were horrible in some way or the other, even if we don't know it. If we ever worked retail, we've taken the money from criminals who earned it through harmful actions to other humans and their families. If we ever worked in a restaurant, we've nourished and sustained the bodies of horrible human beings, possibly even murderers and rapists that will never have been caught. If we ever for one instant donated money to a charitable cause, that money could be used to help a human being in need who later grows up to be a serial killer.

But I don't regret my actions, and neither should anyone else. Because it is our individual actions that matter. Not what someone else does or does not do with their life. Hitler could have gone on to be a famous artist, but he did not. He made decisions of his own accord. He lived with them and died because of them.

To expect anyone to regret interacting with him in the past and not killing him outright is lunacy. If I went outside and shot another person in the head and said I prevented World War III since this person would have been the cause of it, I'd have been arrested for murder and seen as a crazy person.

... and if World War III never happened, who could ever prove me wrong?
 
2014-01-11 01:19:38 AM  

Kick The Chair: I'm not sure if it could have been worse... WWII was very horrific


You lack imagination. WWII was rather bad, but on an industrial scale with little pockets of ultimate evil mixed in. It could very easily have been ultimate evil on an industrial scale with little pockets of rather bad.
 
2014-01-11 01:23:33 AM  

mome23: Yup. That's why time travelers are not allowed to kill him. Do you know how much work it was to change history so Rommel didn't end up in charge? Or to make sure that Heydrich caught a bomb in Prague?
As horrific as the toll was, it could have been worse. And was, in some possible timelines.


i41.tinypic.com
"Adolph Heetlah?"

"Yes?..."
 
2014-01-11 01:23:43 AM  

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: fusillade762: "But if I'd only known who he would turn out to be... I'd give 10 years now to have five minutes of clairvoyance then."

Everybody kills Hitler on their first trip.

The implications of his statement are pretty chilling. He wishes he had murdered a wounded soldier in cold blood.


Some folks need killin'
 
2014-01-11 01:28:07 AM  

Ooba Tooba: Sounds sketchy, but I suppose it could have been the right guy.


It's complete bullshiat
 
2014-01-11 01:30:10 AM  
TFA: In fact, he was a hero - the most highly decorated British private soldier of the First World War

and that's all that really matters, how he conducted himself at the time. Had he been Miss Cleo I might fault him, but he done good by his own conviction.
 
2014-01-11 01:32:37 AM  

fusillade762: "But if I'd only known who he would turn out to be... I'd give 10 years now to have five minutes of clairvoyance then."

Everybody kills Hitler on their first trip.


imgs.xkcd.com
 
2014-01-11 01:33:43 AM  
"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends. I have not much hope that Gollum can be cured before he dies, but there is a chance of it. And he is bound up with the fate of the Ring. My heart tells me that he has some part to play yet, for good or ill, before the end; and when that comes, the pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many - yours not least."
 - J.R.R. Tolkien, Fellowship Of the Ring
 
2014-01-11 01:35:06 AM  

MadSkillz: "Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends. I have not much hope that Gollum can be cured before he dies, but there is a chance of it. And he is bound up with the fate of the Ring. My heart tells me that he has some part to play yet, for good or ill, before the end; and when that comes, the pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many - yours not least."
 - J.R.R. Tolkien, Fellowship Of the Ring Shia LeBeouf


Couldn't resist.
 
2014-01-11 01:36:22 AM  

Shia LeBeouf: MadSkillz: "Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends. I have not much hope that Gollum can be cured before he dies, but there is a chance of it. And he is bound up with the fate of the Ring. My heart tells me that he has some part to play yet, for good or ill, before the end; and when that comes, the pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many - yours not least."
 - J.R.R. Tolkien, Fellowship Of the Ring Shia LeBeouf

Couldn't resist.

 
2014-01-11 01:39:38 AM  
also, as I'm sure has been pointed out without reading the thread, this is most likely complete, utter bullshiat.
 
2014-01-11 01:42:34 AM  
I didn't kill Hitler either, where's my book deal?
 
2014-01-11 01:43:02 AM  

mome23: Gyrfalcon: Yeah, I dunno....Hitler turned out to be a pretty good enemy, in terms of fighting the war. Suppose someone SANE had been at the helm of Nazi Germany? No stop-order at Dunkirk would have made all the difference between winning and losing for the Allies.

Yup. That's why time travelers are not allowed to kill him. Do you know how much work it was to change history so Rommel didn't end up in charge? Or to make sure that Heydrich caught a bomb in Prague?
As horrific as the toll was, it could have been worse. And was, in some possible timelines.


You guys are such sci-fi pessimists.  I for one would like to think some good could come from going into the past and changing things, especially killing Hitler.  Damn anti-time-travel interfering in with the past Luddites are holding us back.  Well no more I say.
 
2014-01-11 01:45:19 AM  

loooongview1: mome23: Gyrfalcon: Yeah, I dunno....Hitler turned out to be a pretty good enemy, in terms of fighting the war. Suppose someone SANE had been at the helm of Nazi Germany? No stop-order at Dunkirk would have made all the difference between winning and losing for the Allies.

Yup. That's why time travelers are not allowed to kill him. Do you know how much work it was to change history so Rommel didn't end up in charge? Or to make sure that Heydrich caught a bomb in Prague?
As horrific as the toll was, it could have been worse. And was, in some possible timelines.

You guys are such sci-fi pessimists.  I for one would like to think some good could come from going into the past and changing things, especially killing Hitler.  Damn anti-time-travel interfering in with the past Luddites are holding us back.  Well no more I say.


There are quite a few contemporary novels where Hitler won. Try Fatherland.
 
2014-01-11 01:46:34 AM  
Say what you want about Hitler, but at least he killed Hitler.
 
2014-01-11 01:47:22 AM  

loooongview1: mome23: Gyrfalcon: Yeah, I dunno....Hitler turned out to be a pretty good enemy, in terms of fighting the war. Suppose someone SANE had been at the helm of Nazi Germany? No stop-order at Dunkirk would have made all the difference between winning and losing for the Allies.

Yup. That's why time travelers are not allowed to kill him. Do you know how much work it was to change history so Rommel didn't end up in charge? Or to make sure that Heydrich caught a bomb in Prague?
As horrific as the toll was, it could have been worse. And was, in some possible timelines.

You guys are such sci-fi pessimists.  I for one would like to think some good could come from going into the past and changing things, especially killing Hitler.  Damn anti-time-travel interfering in with the past Luddites are holding us back.  Well no more I say.


Maybe there was already a bunch of time travel that has resulted in the best possible scenarios for history, and we're currently living as the result of the best possible scenarios due to time travel interference?
 
2014-01-11 01:50:03 AM  

whatshisname: loooongview1: mome23: Gyrfalcon: Yeah, I dunno....Hitler turned out to be a pretty good enemy, in terms of fighting the war. Suppose someone SANE had been at the helm of Nazi Germany? No stop-order at Dunkirk would have made all the difference between winning and losing for the Allies.

Yup. That's why time travelers are not allowed to kill him. Do you know how much work it was to change history so Rommel didn't end up in charge? Or to make sure that Heydrich caught a bomb in Prague?
As horrific as the toll was, it could have been worse. And was, in some possible timelines.

You guys are such sci-fi pessimists.  I for one would like to think some good could come from going into the past and changing things, especially killing Hitler.  Damn anti-time-travel interfering in with the past Luddites are holding us back.  Well no more I say.

There are quite a few contemporary novels where Hitler won. Try Fatherland.


Funny enough I just finished reading "The Man in the High Castle" a couple of days ago, and that came up when I looked at other alt-history books.  Looks interesting, but really depressing.  But what I want is for someone to go back in time and change it for the better.  Can't think of too much stuff that does that, besides a bit of the first "Back to The Future."  And that was after Marty almost farked everything up.
 
2014-01-11 01:53:46 AM  

ThrobblefootSpectre: mome23: Yup. That's why time travelers are not allowed to kill him. Do you know how much work it was to change history so Rommel didn't end up in charge? Or to make sure that Heydrich caught a bomb in Prague?
As horrific as the toll was, it could have been worse. And was, in some possible timelines.

img.fark.net
"Adolph Heetlah?"

"Yes?..."



- "Come wiv me if you vant to live, Herr Hitler. Ich bin eine Australian."
 
2014-01-11 01:53:57 AM  

Weatherkiss: loooongview1: mome23: Gyrfalcon: Yeah, I dunno....Hitler turned out to be a pretty good enemy, in terms of fighting the war. Suppose someone SANE had been at the helm of Nazi Germany? No stop-order at Dunkirk would have made all the difference between winning and losing for the Allies.

Yup. That's why time travelers are not allowed to kill him. Do you know how much work it was to change history so Rommel didn't end up in charge? Or to make sure that Heydrich caught a bomb in Prague?
As horrific as the toll was, it could have been worse. And was, in some possible timelines.

You guys are such sci-fi pessimists.  I for one would like to think some good could come from going into the past and changing things, especially killing Hitler.  Damn anti-time-travel interfering in with the past Luddites are holding us back.  Well no more I say.

Maybe there was already a bunch of time travel that has resulted in the best possible scenarios for history, and we're currently living as the result of the best possible scenarios due to time travel interference?


We could also be living in the worst possible scenario brought on by the  time travel equivalent of internet trolls.
 
2014-01-11 01:54:16 AM  

loooongview1: But what I want is for someone to go back in time and change it for the better. Can't think of too much stuff that does that, besides a bit of the first "Back to The Future." And that was after Marty almost farked everything up.


Keith Roberts has some neat stuff. Pavane. Better? Depends what you like.
 
2014-01-11 01:56:19 AM  
I remember watching a show/reading a book or something where hitler is killed by time travellers. However, Germany still rises, but with a different leader and he is smarter and more ruthless and actually wins the war.

Anyone know what I'm thinking of?
 
2014-01-11 01:58:18 AM  

sjcousins: I remember watching a show/reading a book or something where hitler is killed by time travellers. However, Germany still rises, but with a different leader and he is smarter and more ruthless and actually wins the war.

Anyone know what I'm thinking of?


Never mind, it's Godwin's law of time travel. Could be anything.
 
2014-01-11 01:58:19 AM  

GungFu: PsiChick: I wish I could sit this guy down and explain to him that he has  no reason at all to regret what he did. He didn't 'spare Hitler'; he refused to fire on a fleeing stranger. What Hitler did afterwards is his own damn fault and no one else's, and this man has both courage and compassion. There is never a reason to regret an honorable action.

You can't contact him psychically?

Anyway, as children, this future priest saved Hitler from drowning:

[i.dailymail.co.uk image 224x354]
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2082640/How-year-old-Adolf-H it ler-saved-certain-death--drowning-icy-river-rescued.html


[joshuapreston.files.wordpress.com image 459x322]

And if Wittgenstein, a Jew, was nicer to little Adolph in the playground and didn't tease him about his paintings, which he and the other boys deemed 'ghey'.

If only...


Wasn't there an article on Fark last year or in 2012 about an Irish freikorps soldier who saved Hitler from getting kicked to death by an angry mob at a political rally (apparently the crowd didn't like his speech) after World War I?
 
2014-01-11 01:59:25 AM  

sjcousins: sjcousins: I remember watching a show/reading a book or something where hitler is killed by time travellers. However, Germany still rises, but with a different leader and he is smarter and more ruthless and actually wins the war.

Anyone know what I'm thinking of?

Never mind, it's Godwin's law of time travel. Could be anything.


I should also read thread before commenting...
 
2014-01-11 02:05:03 AM  

fusillade762: "But if I'd only known who he would turn out to be... I'd give 10 years now to have five minutes of clairvoyance then."

Everybody kills Hitler on their first trip.


And we are done.
 
2014-01-11 02:05:24 AM  
Of course one of the German soldiers he did kill was destined to lead Germany out of the destruction and economic catastrophe of WWI into a new age of peace and prosperity. But this bastard shot him and we got Hitler.
 
2014-01-11 02:08:39 AM  
so wait... if you go back in time and kill Hitler before he can start WWII and The Holocaust™, wouldn't that also eliminate the events that led up to the formation of Israel?  oh the irony of thousands of neonazis lining up to be the first to go back in time and kill Hitler.
 
2014-01-11 02:08:48 AM  
What if Hitler wasn't pure evil creating all the bad things in post WWI germany?  What if Germany was waiting for the "right" (wrong!) leader to lash out in collective anger.

What if post WWI Germany was waiting for someone evil like Hitler to present themselves.  Would some other figurehead with the right energy be selected instead of hitler?
 
2014-01-11 02:12:46 AM  
God sent Hitler to remind the world of the evils of atheism and that the only hope for salvation is the love of Jesus Christ.
 
2014-01-11 02:16:22 AM  
"the most highly decorated British private soldier of the First World War" came face to face with the worst person of the 20th century, let him live, and only heard about about this encounter after Hitler told Chamberlain the story 22 years later. And Peace In Our Time phoned the guy two hours before he was to pull survivors out of burning Coventry factories just to give him the bad news.

Yeah, right, whatever you say.
 
2014-01-11 02:19:46 AM  

PsiChick: I wish I could sit this guy down and explain to him that he has  no reason at all to regret what he did. He didn't 'spare Hitler'; he refused to fire on a fleeing stranger. What Hitler did afterwards is his own damn fault and no one else's, and this man has both courage and compassion. There is never a reason to regret an honorable action.


Precisely. Well said.
"Shoot the dictator and prevent the war? But the dictator is merely the tip of the whole festering boil of social pus from which dictators emerge; shoot him and there'll be another one along in a minute. Shoot him too? Why not shoot everyone and invade Poland?"--Terry Pratchett.
See http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HitlersTimeTravelExemption A ct
 
2014-01-11 02:27:09 AM  

sjcousins: sjcousins: sjcousins: I remember watching a show/reading a book or something where hitler is killed by time travellers. However, Germany still rises, but with a different leader and he is smarter and more ruthless and actually wins the war.

Anypony know what I'm thinking of?

Never mind, it's Godwin's law of time travel. Could be anything.

I should also read thread before commenting...



there was an episode of the new Twilight zone where the time traveler killed infant Hitler, replaced that with another baby, only to have things go bad
 
2014-01-11 02:37:54 AM  
The Mirror?  HAHAHAHAHAHA
 
2014-01-11 02:50:57 AM  
Saw a rerun of The Twilight Zone about some woman who went back to kill the baby Adolph.  She ended up grabbing the child and jumping off a bridge and killing him and herself.  The nanny saw what she did so she bought a baby from a gypsy and that tricked the parents into thinking it was the real baby.  No telling what would have happened had he been killed.  I think a lot of people would have stepped into his place.  One never knows.
 
2014-01-11 02:51:47 AM  
not that he wasn't a good guy...or didn't have great things to say,
but you could also "kill Jesus" too in his crib and a lot of people wouldn't have gotten killed.


Have you ever though some good came to the world by having to fight WWII?
Different global dynamic
Certain nations gained
Certain nations fell
Certain nations were reborn better (sooner or later)
People came back from war...and had babies.
and so on...

Good people live...and carry on to influence for good...others do evil in their name.
Bad people live...and carry on to destroy much...but others do good despite it.

It's all relative.
How about you just worry about yourself here and now. Try your best.
And if true...this is what this man did.

/and if you get a time machine...how about just recording the truth, let others know about it.
 
2014-01-11 02:53:54 AM  
BTW...this is what's called a "Reverse Godwin"

In a thread about Hitler...you bring up Jesus some time.

You know...a pretty good guy...and someone who said, can't we just all get along...help others.
 
2014-01-11 03:08:20 AM  

rogue49: BTW...this is what's called a "Reverse Godwin"

In a thread about Hitler...you bring up Jesus some time.

You know...a pretty good guy...and someone who said, can't we just all get along...help others.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01USG9xpnhE
 
2014-01-11 03:12:17 AM  

Kick The Chair: I'm not sure if it could have been worse... WWII was very horrific


I can see one way... The use of chemical warfare. Hitler was said to be reluctant to use it due to his exposure during WWI. Imagine someone less reluctant...
 
2014-01-11 03:34:33 AM  

librarianwah: Kick The Chair: I'm not sure if it could have been worse... WWII was very horrific

I can see one way... The use of chemical warfare. Hitler was said to be reluctant to use it due to his exposure during WWI. Imagine someone less reluctant...


The most frequently cited example is the stop-order that prevented Guderian and Manstein from completing the sweep to the Channel in the conquest of France. This allowed the evacuation of Dunkirk and the return of over 300,000 soldiers to Britain, most of whom eventually came back and were essential in the invasion of Normandy (not to mention the Battle of Britain). Had the Wehrmacht taken those 300,000 soldiers prisoner, in other words, had the stop-order not come down and Guderian been allowed to continue the push to the Channel, Britain would essentially have been defenseless; Operation Sea Lion would likely have been successful a few months later; and with no secure base closer than Iceland, the invasion of Normandy could not have happened. Without a second front, the Germans would have had 200,000 troops free to deal with Russia, and could have taken Moscow before winter set in in 1943. With Moscow fallen, there'd have been no Stalingrad to bleed the German army dry--but it wouldn't have mattered much, because with no Normandy, there'd have been no second front, either. The Germans would have pretty much owned Europe by 1944.

So yea, it could have been way a lot worse.
 
2014-01-11 04:28:34 AM  

Gyrfalcon: librarianwah: Kick The Chair: I'm not sure if it could have been worse... WWII was very horrific

I can see one way... The use of chemical warfare. Hitler was said to be reluctant to use it due to his exposure during WWI. Imagine someone less reluctant...

The most frequently cited example is the stop-order that prevented Guderian and Manstein from completing the sweep to the Channel in the conquest of France. This allowed the evacuation of Dunkirk and the return of over 300,000 soldiers to Britain, most of whom eventually came back and were essential in the invasion of Normandy (not to mention the Battle of Britain). Had the Wehrmacht taken those 300,000 soldiers prisoner, in other words, had the stop-order not come down and Guderian been allowed to continue the push to the Channel, Britain would essentially have been defenseless; Operation Sea Lion would likely have been successful a few months later; and with no secure base closer than Iceland, the invasion of Normandy could not have happened. Without a second front, the Germans would have had 200,000 troops free to deal with Russia, and could have taken Moscow before winter set in in 1943. With Moscow fallen, there'd have been no Stalingrad to bleed the German army dry--but it wouldn't have mattered much, because with no Normandy, there'd have been no second front, either. The Germans would have pretty much owned Europe by 1944.

So yea, it could have been way a lot worse.


Imagine chemicals flooding the Soviet Union ahead of the troops and tanks. Western European areas were better prepared for gas attacks than the East. The pictures of the people in gas masks during the Battle of Britain are scary enough, imagine if the populace were actually exposed to gas attacks. Then later V2s being loaded with sarin would be even scarier to contemplate.

/I always think of chemical warfare agents because I grew up around them. One of largest suppliers for them was within 30miles and then when I went to college the school was next to the largest stockpile the US Army had in the Eastern USA. Stuff dating back to WWI. Always worried about rust & such.
 
2014-01-11 04:29:32 AM  

Gyrfalcon: librarianwah: Kick The Chair: I'm not sure if it could have been worse... WWII was very horrific

I can see one way... The use of chemical warfare. Hitler was said to be reluctant to use it due to his exposure during WWI. Imagine someone less reluctant...

The most frequently cited example is the stop-order that prevented Guderian and Manstein from completing the sweep to the Channel in the conquest of France. This allowed the evacuation of Dunkirk and the return of over 300,000 soldiers to Britain, most of whom eventually came back and were essential in the invasion of Normandy (not to mention the Battle of Britain). Had the Wehrmacht taken those 300,000 soldiers prisoner, in other words, had the stop-order not come down and Guderian been allowed to continue the push to the Channel, Britain would essentially have been defenseless; Operation Sea Lion would likely have been successful a few months later; and with no secure base closer than Iceland, the invasion of Normandy could not have happened. Without a second front, the Germans would have had 200,000 troops free to deal with Russia, and could have taken Moscow before winter set in in 1943. With Moscow fallen, there'd have been no Stalingrad to bleed the German army dry--but it wouldn't have mattered much, because with no Normandy, there'd have been no second front, either. The Germans would have pretty much owned Europe by 1944.

So yea, it could have been way a lot worse.


Losing the BEF ground forces doesn't change the air and naval situations a whole lot so I don't see it affecting the outcome of Sealion. A mere two hundred thousand (that number strikes me as far too low anyway) would not stem the tides in the east. Germany had lost the war before Normandy. Without a second front the war may not have ended in 1945 but in my opinion after Kursk the German army was beaten. Which isn't to say things couldn't have been worse.

I also don't think that events in the west, pre 1941 at least, had or would have had much of an impact on Barbarossa. The Germans would still have been almost completely spent after the long slog across Russia, and there is if course a case to be made that even an encircled or captured Moscow would not have ended things.
 
2014-01-11 06:02:17 AM  

GungFu: "Adolph Heetlah?"

"Yes?..."


- "Come wiv me if you vant to live, Herr Hitler. Ich bin eine Australian."



i41.tinypic.com

Klara Hitler Polzl?  Do you know where your son is?  I need to talk to him.
 
2014-01-11 06:09:41 AM  
I cant wait to see the Downfall parody based on this story.
 
2014-01-11 06:23:36 AM  

kbronsito: you know who else had regrets...  hint: probably shouldn't have invaded Russia so close to winter.


June is close to winter?
 
2014-01-11 08:26:35 AM  

TeddyRooseveltsMustache: Hitler was a nobody back then, and this guy wasn't psychic so no harm done on his part.


While I agree, getting the call that Hitler mentioned you personally in a meeting and asked that your Prime Minister pass along his gratitude and best wishes for making all of this possible has to leave a bit of a mark.
 
2014-01-11 08:28:40 AM  

ISO15693: Say what you want about Hitler, but at least he killed Hitler.


But he also killed the guy who killed Hitler, so still a bit of a jerk.
 
2014-01-11 08:44:01 AM  
If it wasn't Hitler, the Nazis would have found someone else to be their spokesman.
 
2014-01-11 09:04:05 AM  
Why kill Hitler when you can punch him and get even better results?
 
2014-01-11 09:17:15 AM  

swamp_of_dumb: Why kill Hitler when you can punch him and get even better results?


Why punch Hitler when you can rape him and get even better results?

/NSFW
//obviously
 
2014-01-11 09:49:30 AM  

GungFu: PsiChick: I wish I could sit this guy down and explain to him that he has  no reason at all to regret what he did. He didn't 'spare Hitler'; he refused to fire on a fleeing stranger. What Hitler did afterwards is his own damn fault and no one else's, and this man has both courage and compassion. There is never a reason to regret an honorable action.

You can't contact him psychically?

Anyway, as children, this future priest saved Hitler from drowning:

[i.dailymail.co.uk image 224x354]
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2082640/How-year-old-Adolf-H it ler-saved-certain-death--drowning-icy-river-rescued.html


[joshuapreston.files.wordpress.com image 459x322]

And if Wittgenstein, a Jew, was nicer to little Adolph in the playground and didn't tease him about his paintings, which he and the other boys deemed 'ghey'.

If only...


And if only Wittgenstein had gotten killed on the Galician front, I wouldn't have wondered post-1918, "WTF am I reading?" when perusing his books.

How DOES a suicidal person in the infantry survive four years of World War combat?
 
2014-01-11 10:03:46 AM  

PsiChick: I wish I could sit this guy down and explain to him that he has  no reason at all to regret what he did. He didn't 'spare Hitler'; he refused to fire on a fleeing stranger. What Hitler did afterwards is his own damn fault and no one else's, and this man has both courage and compassion. There is never a reason to regret an honorable action.


On the other hand, the admissions committee of the Academy of the Arts Vienna (1907-1908) has a lot to answer for.
 
2014-01-11 10:06:41 AM  
Einstein was the time-traveler that killed Hitler, leading to a world war between the Allies and Soviets.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfU1lYAIlWs
 
2014-01-11 10:08:26 AM  
Go back in time and kill Hitler? Save Kennedy ? Save Lincoln? But what would be the ramifications of these actions? They seem like the right things to do but none of us are wise enough to predict the outcomes. If I had a time machine I would not use it to change the past but to observe the past to fill the gaps in our history.
 
2014-01-11 10:11:21 AM  

werty789: Go back in time and kill Hitler? Save Kennedy ? Save Lincoln? But what would be the ramifications of these actions? They seem like the right things to do but none of us are wise enough to predict the outcomes. If I had a time machine I would not use it to change the past but to observe the past to fill the gaps in our history.


Travel to the future and bring back their knowledge, understanding, technology, winning lottery numbers.
 
2014-01-11 10:50:45 AM  

XMark: If this soldier had killed Hitler instead of sparing him, then someone else probably would have risen to power and more or less done the same thing. Maybe someone even more competent. You never know.


Stephen Fry concurs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Uom7-WKeZA

Imagine National Socialism with a leash kept on its anti-Semitism. Nazi Germany keeping a few million happy Jewish stormtroopers plus several hundred advanced physics professors would have likely led to a German victory via a German atomic bomb.

Sure, there's other reasons Hitler lost: he was a crappy, wasteful general, he ceased attacking the RAF in the Battle of Britain because Berlin got lightly bombed, and, of course, that whole Russian mistake. But the number of things he could have done right to win all of Europe is actually quite short. The Allied won because Hitler pooched himself by being Hitler. A more competent Nazi leader might not have made the same horrendous mistakes and might have let the German armies do their job at which they were very, very good.

Read this for an idea of how close Britain came to surrendering to Germany in 1940:

http://www.amazon.ca/Five-Days-London-May-1940/dp/0300084668
 
2014-01-11 10:59:41 AM  

SuperNinjaToad: mome23: Gyrfalcon: Yeah, I dunno....Hitler turned out to be a pretty good enemy, in terms of fighting the war. Suppose someone SANE had been at the helm of Nazi Germany? No stop-order at Dunkirk would have made all the difference between winning and losing for the Allies.

Yup. That's why time travelers are not allowed to kill him. Do you know how much work it was to change history so Rommel didn't end up in charge? Or to make sure that Heydrich caught a bomb in Prague?
As horrific as the toll was, it could have been worse. And was, in some possible timelines.

exactly! ... and that is just looking from a very small macro standpoint. If the events of WWII had even been slightly altered and even if the Allies finally won the war, this world would be very different today because it would've thrown the entire dynamics of the ensuing cold war into disarray. Heck for all we know if the cold war had been a different kind, WWIII may have already happened and we all won't even be here today talking about it.
another reason why I don't believe time travel is possible because altering world history is just too damn dangerous and unpredictable that the very laws of nature just won't allow it!!


What if instead of time traveling to your universe's past, you create an identical parallel universe so you could alter whatever you want without screwing up your own universe.
/Takes another drag from blunt.
 
2014-01-11 11:07:00 AM  
no good deed goes unpunished.
 
2014-01-11 11:11:47 AM  
www.othervoices.org

Killing him back in WW1 would bring up the moral paradox of punishing someone for something they hadn't done yet.  He may of become the world's biggest dickhead year later, but back then he was still a (relatively) innocent man.  So what to do?

I've got a better idea for our intrepid time traveler: Don't bring a gun, bring a giant bag of weed.

It's simple.  He was a painter, he was a vegetarian, he was basically one step away from becoming a before-his-time hippie.So change that.  Go back and get Hitler totally baked.  Turn him into a stoner.  Introduce him to the wonders of pot & cheetos.

Why this is a better solution: First, you've prevented WW2 and the Holocaust just as easily as if you'd killed him, and without becoming a murderer yourself.  Hitler doesn't join the nazis (too lasy), stays in art school and when you get back to the present all anyone knows about him is that he was this really far out artist back in the 1920s who did a bunch of groovy paintings.  All in all, a pretty well-liked guy.

Everybody wins.

Well, almost... the problem is that without WW2 happening you opened the door for a different mustachioed mad-man bent on global domination to invade a helpless Germany, along with the rest of Europe, and he's now got 20,000,000 more troops at his disposal than in your previous time-line.  Whoops!

www.ottens.co.uk
 
2014-01-11 11:19:54 AM  

MadSkillz: "Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends. I have not much hope that Gollum can be cured before he dies, but there is a chance of it. And he is bound up with the fate of the Ring. My heart tells me that he has some part to play yet, for good or ill, before the end; and when that comes, the pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many - yours not least."
 - J.R.R. Tolkien, Fellowship Of the Ring


They asked each other countless riddles, such as who played the Cisco Kid and what was Krypton. In the end Dildo won the game. Stumped at last for a riddle to ask, he cried out, as his hand fell on his snub-nosed .38, "What have I got in my pocket?" This Goddam failed to answer, and growing impatient, he paddled up to Dildo, whining, "Let me see, let me see." Dildo obliged by pulling out the pistol and emptying it in Goddam's direction. The dark spoiled his aim, and he managed only to de- flate the rubber float, leaving Goddam to flounder. Goddam, who couldn't swim, reached his hand out to Dildo and begged him to pull him out, and as he did, Dildo noticed an interesting-looking ring on his finger and pulled it off. He would have finished Goddam off then and there, but pity stayed his hand.
"It's a pity I have run out of bullets," he thought, as he went back up the tunnel, pursued by Goddam's cries of rage.
 
2014-01-11 11:27:54 AM  
Not the first time.

Hitler was in a fight with some Communists in 1923 or so, and an American tourist stopped them from killing him.
 
2014-01-11 11:47:14 AM  
 
2014-01-11 11:52:10 AM  
If Nazi Germany had a sane or competent leader, they may not have been defeated in WWII...

This man's compassion for a wounded (enemy) soldier on the battlefield may have been the 1 thing that stopped the Nazis, their own incompetent leadership.
 
2014-01-11 11:52:33 AM  
Time travel interference never ends well. See 11/22/63. Also I read some good time travel book awhile back where one of the characters thinks she is going to keep the Titanic from sinking but her bump of the controls is actually what steers it to the iceberg or something.
 
2014-01-11 11:58:26 AM  

Valiente: XMark: If this soldier had killed Hitler instead of sparing him, then someone else probably would have risen to power and more or less done the same thing. Maybe someone even more competent. You never know.

Stephen Fry concurs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Uom7-WKeZA

Imagine National Socialism with a leash kept on its anti-Semitism. Nazi Germany keeping a few million happy Jewish stormtroopers plus several hundred advanced physics professors would have likely led to a German victory via a German atomic bomb.

Sure, there's other reasons Hitler lost: he was a crappy, wasteful general, he ceased attacking the RAF in the Battle of Britain because Berlin got lightly bombed, and, of course, that whole Russian mistake. But the number of things he could have done right to win all of Europe is actually quite short. The Allied won because Hitler pooched himself by being Hitler. A more competent Nazi leader might not have made the same horrendous mistakes and might have let the German armies do their job at which they were very, very good.

Read this for an idea of how close Britain came to surrendering to Germany in 1940:

http://www.amazon.ca/Five-Days-London-May-1940/dp/0300084668


Even if you could kill every single NAZI germany would have just turned communist and invaded France and UK with the USSR.
 
2014-01-11 12:08:28 PM  

freewill: TeddyRooseveltsMustache: Hitler was a nobody back then, and this guy wasn't psychic so no harm done on his part.

While I agree, getting the call that Hitler mentioned you personally in a meeting and asked that your Prime Minister pass along his gratitude and best wishes for making all of this possible has to leave a bit of a mark.


Fair point.
 
2014-01-11 12:11:56 PM  
The more I hear about this Hitler guy, the more I .. what? .. they called him a gay-boy?

Oh .. well .. never mind.
 
2014-01-11 12:25:48 PM  

GungFu: ThrobblefootSpectre: mome23: Yup. That's why time travelers are not allowed to kill him. Do you know how much work it was to change history so Rommel didn't end up in charge? Or to make sure that Heydrich caught a bomb in Prague?
As horrific as the toll was, it could have been worse. And was, in some possible timelines.

[img.fark.net image 452x300]
"Adolph Heetlah?"

"Yes?..."


- "Come wiv me if you vant to live, Herr Hitler. Ich bin eine Australian."


And he came out of a Nazi's cock.
 
2014-01-11 01:46:57 PM  
rogue49: Have you ever though some good came to the world by having to fight WWII?
Different global dynamic
Certain nations gained
Certain nations fell
Certain nations were reborn better (sooner or later)
People came back from war...and had babies.
and so on...

Good people live...and carry on to influence for good...others do evil in their name.
Bad people live...and carry on to destroy much...but others do good despite it.

It's all relative.
How about you just worry about yourself here and now. Try your best.
And if true...this is what this man did.


This.  The idea of killing Hitler (assuming it was possible) is idiotic.  Much of everything that we know in today's world can be traced back to World War II, the defeat of Fascism, resulting rise and fall of the cold war, the collapse of colonial empires, globalism.  Even taking something like our current level of technology is due to aspects of the cold war, us taking German scientists and let's throw in the fact of the US postwar economic boom...Some aspects of the above you may not like, but where would this alternate world be where we didn't fight Hitler's Germany?
 
2014-01-11 01:52:36 PM  
Ok, so what, he let Hitler live, and millions died?  And so some "blame" him?
How the hell can you assume that?  What if Hitler had died?  With the stupidity of the League of Nations, and the hellish restrictions they placed on Germany, with the unemployment, poverty, etc...SOMEONE
would have risen to do what Hitler did, and, if they weren't the NUT JOB that he was, and had listened
to his generals, WW2 may have been different!  Thank god that the nut Hitler lived, he may have
spared the entire world from being under the Nazi flag!

I always wanted to develop a computer game called "What if".  Program all the variables of history, from past to present.  Then go in and change one thing, sort of a butterfly effect.  Then run the program and
see what might have changed.  Say the archduke of Austria had not been assassinated.  Would ww1 had begun?  If there was no WW1, would the strive of Germany, lead us to WW2?  And if there were no WW2, would the iron curtain have fallen over eastern Europe?  What if Pearl Harbor never happened, what if JFK had not been shot?  Would the USA had been involved in VietNam?  The possibilities are endless.
 
2014-01-11 02:33:17 PM  
So at some point, probably already passed, the technological advances made during WWII because of Hilter have saved more lives than he killed. So shouldn't he eventually be considered a hero?
 
2014-01-11 02:45:12 PM  

Omahawg: Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: fusillade762: "But if I'd only known who he would turn out to be... I'd give 10 years now to have five minutes of clairvoyance then."

Everybody kills Hitler on their first trip.

The implications of his statement are pretty chilling. He wishes he had murdered a wounded soldier in cold blood.

I have on pretty good authority so did many americans after they liberated belsen. no more prisoners. nein.


Random German soldiers wouldn't have known about concentration camps.

They knew that the Jews were gone, but according to German propaganda, they were alive in some sort of holiday camp.
 
2014-01-11 08:50:10 PM  
Presuming Hitler dies in WWI...

-Depression still starts on schedule
-Germany still has a lot of "stab in the back" myth about the end of the war
-Communist threat still taken very seriously by local authorities especially post-Spartacus riot
-Fascists still moving towards power on example of Mussolini but will not be as strong due to lack of Beer Hall Putsch

If memory serves, Hitler was member #7 of the German Worker's Party that later became the National Socialist German Worker's Party (the term Nazi comes from parts of the German descriptive).  He was sent in a military capacity to investigate some of these smaller parties and built a lot of the apparatus form the ground up based on his charisma.  The Nazi party itself will likely never rise, but the personalities which made possible the nightmare of Germany are still present.  I could see a military dictatorship arise from the fallout after Hindenburg's death in 1934 with a civilian show government under Von Papen.  But Hitler was the one who pushed hard for a lot of the aggressive moves against the West, testing the waters and seeing how London and Paris would react.  From the Saar in 1935 to Memel in 1939 he kept pushing, enough so that even his own commanders thought to over throw him should there be reaction from the West.  There simply was not any reaction to speak of.  A more cautious leader with war in mind would need more time to build up and prepare for such a conflict, and the technology with which such a war would be fought and its duration would be even more devastating.  But there is a strong possibility that Germany would simply recover more slowly as would the rest of the world, giving Europe more time and a greater chance to fall prey to locally-grown Communists and creating a Red Scare of the 1950s a few years earlier.  The Commonwealth (of former Poland-Lithuania) would have a few more million people in it and large parts of central Europe would have many more historic buildings in them today.  And our technological achievements along with key infrastructure would probably be very different today.

Also, Hitler's invasion of England could still fail but alter the war dramatically.  If Germany learns the extent of the British penetration of their code systems their response will be much stronger, especially as Ultra probably shortened the war by 2-5 years.  Many in America might think twice about supporting the UK depending on how the invasion unfolds.  Discovery of how key the radar Home Chain turns out to be might make it a priority for future attacks.  And destruction of what few aircraft Britain has left might make it even more vulnerable for a few months to wide open German bombing campaigns.

Removing England in 1940 or 1941 entirely also has much larger of an effect on Russia.  Murmansk would closed to Allied shipping, the British fleet will have to find friendly ports elsewhere, Ireland will be pressured into joining Germany somehow to prevent its use as an Allied base, and German industry would be much safer from bombing runs.  Canada would become the new HQ for the British forces while a Fascist state would be set up in Britain proper.  This puts German units much closer to US soil and makes Iceland along with Greenland, now US possessions in 1940, tempting targets in the near future.  This gives them more production, especially in the later parts of the war, and possibly enough time to get their synthetic fuel plants up and running.  Spain might also be convinced to join the war at that point and Germany likely gets a surface fleet of some sort by taking whatever ships it can along with random technologies.

In short without Hitler the chances of a second world war do exist but are probably going to take longer to start and would involve more advanced technologies from the outset.  If it had to happen, the fact that Germany lost and was shattered probably did more to quell the tendencies of fascism for a few generations than leaving unanswered questions or more patient leaders might have done.  A Europe united under Heydrich would be a frightening prospect and Germany had other capable figures who might have been able to do far worse.
 
2014-01-11 09:38:51 PM  
I wonder how many Farkers have ever bothered tooinvestigate WWII in any sort of depth.  Judging by the average response here it is safe to assume the brainwashing of the west has been highly successful.
 
2014-01-11 10:49:53 PM  
My great great grandfather saved Mussolini from drowning in WWI.


woops....

/true story
//csb
 
2014-01-12 12:39:33 AM  
"Free to become the most reviled dictator and mass murderer of all time."

Yo author, Ima let you finish but Stalin was the most reviled dictator and mass murderer of all time.

Yo author, Ima let you finish but Mao Zedong was the most reviled dictator and mass murderer of all time.
 
2014-01-12 06:44:23 AM  

fusillade762: "But if I'd only known who he would turn out to be... I'd give 10 years now to have five minutes of clairvoyance then."

Everybody kills Hitler on their first trip.


Not even close I'd kill George Lucas some time after Indiana Jones and the last Crusade but before the 97 re-release of Starwars trilogy with godawful changes. Yeah Yeah Patton Oswalt came up with it first.
 
2014-01-12 07:36:24 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Yeah, I dunno....Hitler turned out to be a pretty good enemy, in terms of fighting the war. Suppose someone SANE had been at the helm of Nazi Germany? No stop-order at Dunkirk would have made all the difference between winning and losing for the Allies.


Exactly. The situation that Germany was in at the end of the war, someone would have emerged, and perhaps this person might have been capable of running a war.
 
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