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(Den of Geek (US))   Unresolved plot arcs from Matt Smith's run as the Doctor shows there's a clear divide between "Moffat lies" and "Moffat is just throwing stuff against a wall"   (denofgeek.us) divider line 132
    More: Interesting, The Unanswered Question, Doctor Who, Steven Moffat, physicians, story arcs, Moffat lies, quantum electrodynamics, Jenna-Louise Coleman  
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4657 clicks; posted to Geek » on 10 Jan 2014 at 12:33 PM (28 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-10 11:55:14 AM
Don't you think Moffat looks tired?

/but seriously, he probably should be getting ready to move on. Much like the actors playing The Doctor, a show runner/producer has a span of about four years before they just need to go. Any more than that, and you get the late-80s JNT stuff, and that never turns out well.
 
2014-01-10 11:56:50 AM
Reasons I didn't get into Lost after the first season and reasons I will never get into Dr Who.
 
2014-01-10 12:31:20 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Reasons I didn't get into Lost after the first season and reasons I will never get into Dr Who.


Bah, it's just fun mindless stuff, not to be taken too seriously; who cares if it doesn't always make sense. That's how I approach it anyway.
 
2014-01-10 12:36:39 PM
Moffat had some good stuff, but now it's time for something new.
 
2014-01-10 12:43:49 PM

b0rscht: cameroncrazy1984: Reasons I didn't get into Lost after the first season and reasons I will never get into Dr Who.

Bah, it's just fun mindless stuff, not to be taken too seriously; who cares if it doesn't always make sense. That's how I approach it anyway.


But I can't turn off my brain like that. Entertainment can be light, but it still should make sense and be internally consistent.
 
2014-01-10 12:46:46 PM
If the stories just resolved themselves, they'd be entertaining and fun to watch, but to often lately everything has to be a story arc.  And considering the complications of time travel stories in general, this just seems like a bad idea.
 
2014-01-10 12:48:41 PM
Honestly, as a fan who's several years behind due to Real Life... We've watched up to "let's kill Hitler" and I find all the River/Amy/Rory stuff to be fricking annoying. I even liked River up to a point (she should be used more sparingly IMO), but the writing just seems like borderline fan service sometimes. Does it improve once we ditch the obsession with the universe revolving around Amelia Pond and her timey-wimey uterus?
 
2014-01-10 12:59:03 PM

No Such Agency: Does it improve once we ditch the obsession with the universe revolving around Amelia Pond and her timey-wimey uterus?


No.  I moves from universe revolving mega-uterus to a companion who managed to be even more annoying and outright dumb than Rose was.

She should've stayed the thing she was introduced as... at least that would've been a funny companion for an episode or two.
 
2014-01-10 01:00:06 PM

rustypouch: b0rscht: cameroncrazy1984: Reasons I didn't get into Lost after the first season and reasons I will never get into Dr Who.

Bah, it's just fun mindless stuff, not to be taken too seriously; who cares if it doesn't always make sense. That's how I approach it anyway.

But I can't turn off my brain like that. Entertainment can be light, but it still should make sense and be internally consistent.


I don't care if a show/movie makes sense or is internally consistent, as long as *the show* doesn't care, either. It's when they try to pretend (and/or retcon) everything that my brain starts to hurt. Either be willfully consistent, or willfully inconsistent.
 
2014-01-10 01:01:56 PM

FirstNationalBastard: Don't you think Moffat looks tired?

/but seriously, he probably should be getting ready to move on. Much like the actors playing The Doctor, a show runner/producer has a span of about four years before they just need to go. Any more than that, and you get the late-80s JNT stuff, and that never turns out well.


Eh, not really. As has been pointed out before... his highs aren't as high as the RTD era, but his lows aren't nearly as low. It's consistently been an enjoyable series, and holds up pretty well to re-watching. Frankly, the other options could be much worse right now, and that's why BBC is leaving him in the driver's seat.

A possible complaint I have is that sometimes his basic story ideas are solid, but the scripts end up going the wrong direction. The two examples that come to mind:

1. Let's Kill Hitler. The entire episode could have been from Mels' POV, not the POV of the Doctor, Amy, and Rory. It would have been a great time to see glimpses of her early brainwashing, follow her path from New York to the UK, and have the episode climax with her transition to River Song. In fact, it would have been interesting if Amy or Rory had said "River!" as soon as she regenerated... but were quickly hushed by the Doctor, since this person would have no idea who River Song is (yet).

2. Time of the Doctor. It made almost no sense having all of his enemies at Trenzalore right away, and the Daleks could have been used as a great device for the Gallifrey subplot. It would have been better if the initial aggressors were the Church and the Angels, then joined later by the Sontarans, then the Cybermen... with the Doctor defending Christmas against all of them consecutively. During this time, he discovers Gallifrey through the cracks, and starts planning its return to the universe. Finally the Daleks show up, annihilate the Cybermen, Angels, and Sontarans, turn the Church into Dalek Puppets, and cut through Christmas' defenses effortlessly.
When the Doctor sees the Daleks in action and looks at the crack - he knows returning Gallifrey would only restart the Time War. So he decides to leave them outside the universe for now. They are angry with him, and through the crack destroy his last defensive mechanism. Clara makes her impassioned plea to the Time Lords, and someone on Gallifrey relents and sends the Doctor his jolt of regeneration energy.
 
2014-01-10 01:03:23 PM

No Such Agency: Honestly, as a fan who's several years behind due to Real Life... We've watched up to "let's kill Hitler" and I find all the River/Amy/Rory stuff to be fricking annoying. I even liked River up to a point (she should be used more sparingly IMO), but the writing just seems like borderline fan service sometimes. Does it improve once we ditch the obsession with the universe revolving around Amelia Pond and her timey-wimey uterus?


No.  It gets worse.  Rory, for some reason, gets less screen time, and Moffat's love affair with Amy and River (and, really all of his "creations" such as the Angels and Strax, et al) will continue.  If you're annoyed at this point, give it a few episodes.  You'll be pulling your hair out.
 
2014-01-10 01:15:44 PM
Here's what I never got a satisfactory answer for. How exactly did locking the Doctor into the Pandorica result in the stars exploding? I never understood that one. I get that it was somehow connected to the Tardis exploding, but that leads to a bigger question - why did the Tardis explode? If it was sabotage, how was that possible?

Then there's the issue of the Doctor's "death" in season 6. The only way it works is if the Doctor plays along. Unlike Trenzalore, there was no need for him to be at Lake Silencio in the first place. It's a predestination paradox, and more convoluted than most of The Joker's plans. And why would they need an astronaut suit? They're from the future, they didn't have one on hand? Why did they need River in the suit if it was controlling her? And how did River stop the suit in the first place, creating the alternate reality?

So while I really did enjoy the Smith/Moffat years, I really did, the over-arching plot never made any logical sense. I can put up with a lot of Timey-Wimey reasons for the way things are, Blink being one of the best episodes of Doctor Who ever, but I require it to at least make some kind of sense. Doctor Who is an intelligent show, and things happening "just because" aren't good enough for me. It's what drove me batty about Lost and Battlestar Galactica.
 
2014-01-10 01:17:32 PM
If the show is too much work for people they have the hundreds of reality shows for mouth breathers out there.
 
2014-01-10 01:25:13 PM
[quote=TFA]Besides being the Mother Superious of the Papal Mainframe, she's probably River Song isn't she?

No she is not River.  While she could have otherwise been another regeneration of River, but River lost all her regenerations and we saw her death under the David Tennant doctor.

 
2014-01-10 01:30:20 PM

bk3k: [quote=TFA]Besides being the Mother Superious of the Papal Mainframe, she's probably River Song isn't she?
No she is not River.  While she could have otherwise been another regeneration of River, but River lost all her regenerations and we saw her death under the David Tennant doctor.


Tasha Lem is quite clearly River Song.  The only way they could've made it more obvious is with a giant blinking red arrow pointing at her with the text "THIS IS RIVER SONG!".
 
2014-01-10 01:37:27 PM

soporific: Here's what I never got a satisfactory answer for. How exactly did locking the Doctor into the Pandorica result in the stars exploding? I never understood that one. I get that it was somehow connected to the Tardis exploding, but that leads to a bigger question - why did the Tardis explode? If it was sabotage, how was that possible?


The Silence had been in the Tardis for months or years, sabotaging it and causing its universe-ending explosion.

Then there's the issue of the Doctor's "death" in season 6. The only way it works is if the Doctor plays along. Unlike Trenzalore, there was no need for him to be at Lake Silencio in the first place. It's a predestination paradox, and more convoluted than most of The Joker's plans. And why would they need an astronaut suit? They're from the future, they didn't have one on hand? Why did they need River in the suit if it was controlling her? And how did River stop the suit in the first place, creating the alternate reality?

My guess? Petty revenge against River - wanting her to witness the Doctor's death since she failed to carry out her own mission. As to why it had to be an Apollo astronaut suit instead of, well, anything else... I got nothin'. 

So while I really did enjoy the Smith/Moffat years, I really did, the over-arching plot never made any logical sense. I can put up with a lot of Timey-Wimey reasons for the way things are, Blink being one of the best episodes of Doctor Who ever, but I require it to at least make some kind of sense. Doctor Who is an intelligent show, and things happening "just because" aren't good enough for me. It's what drove me batty about Lost and Battlestar Galactica.

That happens to any show that designs an over-arching story arc... but doesn't already know how it's going to end. Stargate: Universe (the only one of the 'Gates that I enjoy) wrote themselves into a nasty bind when they had Telford go through the gate with the Lucian Alliance. Telford was suddenly on Destiny, but Lou Diamond Phillips wasn't contracted as a series regular. Like most other series who suddenly find their stories at odds with their "lead" characters, SG:U didn't have the balls, money, or whatever to restructure its cast... so they had to get rid of him (twice).

The only arc-driven shows I know that didn't actually suffer from that were seasons 1-4 of Babylon 5 (even though they had to double-time the fourth season) and seasons 1-5 of Supernatural - because the showrunners already knew precisely where the story arcs were going to finish. Doctor Who should adapt this - figure out exactly where the series is going to begin, where they want it to end, and then fill in the blanks.

On the other hand - there's something to be said about a series that leaves its audience wanting more.
 
2014-01-10 01:39:37 PM
Moffat's big problem is that he seems terrified of commitment.  His characters and the rules of his universe are left almost completely undefined, the few things that are defined are regularly ignored, and the remaining things that are too big to ignore are actively removed.  It's basically, "I can't commit to any characterizations, definitions, or explanations, because I might change my mind later, so I'll just leave them all up in the air."

So we end up with stuff like Amy was a kissogram but then she was a model but then she was a journalist but then she was an author, with every transition spontaneously happening offscreen with no explanation.  Clara was a nanny who lived with two kids, except then in the Christmas special she was suddenly an English teacher who lived in her own flat and had a different father than in "Rings of Akhaten".  Strax was dead but then he was alive again because reasons ("It was explained in an interview/DVD extra" is still lazy writing).  River knows the Doctor's name because reasons.  The Silence blew up the TARDIS by means of reasons.  The sonic is not a weapon except when he can point it at a Dalek and blow it up.  Etc, etc.

He was okay back in Series 1-3, but his writing has progressed into a case of him coming up with a bunch of "twists" and "mysteries" that he just HAS to use, regardless of how little contextual sense they make or how willing he is to follow through with them, and then writing an episode to support his gimmick rather than to tell a story.  He seems more interested in proving his "cleverness" than writing a satisfying or internally-consistent narrative.

I'm already kind of worried about Capaldi, since from the little information I've heard, it sounds like he's going to try to mimic the First Doctor era with Capaldi by giving him a similar costume and attitude, having Clara be a teacher at that school, and bringing in a second male companion who is one of her coworkers.  Which could be interesting, but my guess is that Moffat is doing it simply to play up the, "Look, he got a new set of regenerations so Capaldi is sort of like the new First Doctor!  So I'm doing stuff like the original First Doctor!  GET IT?!  AREN'T I CLEVER?!"  And then not really go anywhere with it.  Other than probably visiting some cavemen in the first episode so he can go "lol classic-era reference".
 
2014-01-10 01:41:26 PM
bk3k: [quote=TFA]Besides being the Mother Superious of the Papal Mainframe, she's probably River Song isn't she?
No she is not River.  While she could have otherwise been another regeneration of River, but River lost all her regenerations and we saw her death under the David Tennant doctor.

Tasha Lem is River.
Tasha means 'born on Christmas' & River was born on Christmas.
Lem backwards is Mel, as in Melody Pond.

Remember when River 'died' and was digitally saved when we first met her?  The digital River is now somehow Mother Superior of a Papal Mainframe.  So in River's timeline, Tasha Lem is after she dies in the library when the doctor first met her.
 
2014-01-10 01:42:34 PM

Shazam999: bk3k: [quote=TFA]Besides being the Mother Superious of the Papal Mainframe, she's probably River Song isn't she?
No she is not River.  While she could have otherwise been another regeneration of River, but River lost all her regenerations and we saw her death under the David Tennant doctor.

Tasha Lem is quite clearly River Song.  The only way they could've made it more obvious is with a giant blinking red arrow pointing at her with the text "THIS IS RIVER SONG!".


That's the impression I got, but how is that possible? River couldn't regenerate, she "died" in The Library and the last we saw of her was an electronic ghost being projected from the Library mainframe. And her last scene in "The Name of the Doctor" showed her fade out of existence after finally saying goodbye to the Doctor.

The only way it would be possible is if the Papal Mainframe and The Library are one and the same. Tasha Lem would then have been constructed out of the Library mainframe, and River's personality would be a part of her essence...and that's making a whole lot of sense. So, if that's what happened, then Tasha Lem isn't a regenerated River. Instead, River is one of the many voices in her head, and that's why she has such a soft spot for The Doctor and why he tells her to fight the psychopath within.

And this explanation makes a lot more sense than most of series 5 and 6. You're welcome Moffat, that one's for free.
 
2014-01-10 01:43:38 PM

Fast Moon: He was okay back in Series 1-3, but his writing has progressed into a case of him coming up with a bunch of "twists" and "mysteries" that he just HAS to use, regardless of how little contextual sense they make or how willing he is to follow through with them, and then writing an episode to support his gimmick rather than to tell a story. He seems more interested in proving his "cleverness" than writing a satisfying or internally-consistent narrative.


Ah, but Moffat had someone over top of him in seasons 1-4 to rein him in. Now, he runs the show and can let his excesses run wild.

There's your difference.
 
2014-01-10 01:50:06 PM

soporific: Shazam999: bk3k: [quote=TFA]Besides being the Mother Superious of the Papal Mainframe, she's probably River Song isn't she?
No she is not River.  While she could have otherwise been another regeneration of River, but River lost all her regenerations and we saw her death under the David Tennant doctor.

Tasha Lem is quite clearly River Song.  The only way they could've made it more obvious is with a giant blinking red arrow pointing at her with the text "THIS IS RIVER SONG!".

That's the impression I got, but how is that possible? River couldn't regenerate, she "died" in The Library and the last we saw of her was an electronic ghost being projected from the Library mainframe. And her last scene in "The Name of the Doctor" showed her fade out of existence after finally saying goodbye to the Doctor.

The only way it would be possible is if the Papal Mainframe and The Library are one and the same. Tasha Lem would then have been constructed out of the Library mainframe, and River's personality would be a part of her essence...and that's making a whole lot of sense. So, if that's what happened, then Tasha Lem isn't a regenerated River. Instead, River is one of the many voices in her head, and that's why she has such a soft spot for The Doctor and why he tells her to fight the psychopath within.

And this explanation makes a lot more sense than most of series 5 and 6. You're welcome Moffat, that one's for free.


The way I figure is that the Doctor now knows exactly when she kicks the bucket, so eventually he goes back and recovers her the instant before it happens.  After all he has centuries now to figure out how to resurrect her.
 
2014-01-10 01:50:58 PM

clkeagle: soporific: Here's what I never got a satisfactory answer for. How exactly did locking the Doctor into the Pandorica result in the stars exploding? I never understood that one. I get that it was somehow connected to the Tardis exploding, but that leads to a bigger question - why did the Tardis explode? If it was sabotage, how was that possible?

The Silence had been in the Tardis for months or years, sabotaging it and causing its universe-ending explosion.


That makes sense, sort of, though I wonder why the Tardis couldn't detect them? I would have liked to have that explained on the show, even via a throwaway line.
 
2014-01-10 01:53:02 PM
For all the legitimate complaints about Moffat, never forget who came before

i.imgur.com
 
2014-01-10 01:53:40 PM

FirstNationalBastard: Fast Moon: He was okay back in Series 1-3, but his writing has progressed into a case of him coming up with a bunch of "twists" and "mysteries" that he just HAS to use, regardless of how little contextual sense they make or how willing he is to follow through with them, and then writing an episode to support his gimmick rather than to tell a story. He seems more interested in proving his "cleverness" than writing a satisfying or internally-consistent narrative.

Ah, but Moffat had someone over top of him in seasons 1-4 to rein him in. Now, he runs the show and can let his excesses run wild.

There's your difference.


You're trying to tell us that the person responsible for this:

img.fark.net

was keeping Moffat "reined in?"
 
2014-01-10 01:54:29 PM

FirstNationalBastard: Ah, but Moffat had someone over top of him in seasons 1-4 to rein him in. Now, he runs the show and can let his excesses run wild.


I'm LOLing out loud at the thought of RTD being a moderating influence.
 
2014-01-10 01:55:49 PM

clkeagle: FirstNationalBastard: Fast Moon: He was okay back in Series 1-3, but his writing has progressed into a case of him coming up with a bunch of "twists" and "mysteries" that he just HAS to use, regardless of how little contextual sense they make or how willing he is to follow through with them, and then writing an episode to support his gimmick rather than to tell a story. He seems more interested in proving his "cleverness" than writing a satisfying or internally-consistent narrative.

Ah, but Moffat had someone over top of him in seasons 1-4 to rein him in. Now, he runs the show and can let his excesses run wild.

There's your difference.

You're trying to tell us that the person responsible for this:

[img.fark.net image 400x225]

was keeping Moffat "reined in?"


I prefer to think it was season 4 RTD that kept Moffat reined in, not concrete blowjob RTD.
 
2014-01-10 01:56:39 PM

No Such Agency: Honestly, as a fan who's several years behind due to Real Life... We've watched up to "let's kill Hitler" and I find all the River/Amy/Rory stuff to be fricking annoying. I even liked River up to a point (she should be used more sparingly IMO), but the writing just seems like borderline fan service sometimes. Does it improve once we ditch the obsession with the universe revolving around Amelia Pond and her timey-wimey uterus?


Look, I don't want to start a flame war, but you've got it completely wrong: it's not borderline at all.

...The phrase I would use in its place is "all-encompassing" or possibly "obsessive and unhealthy".


/Writing for that show is worse than Voyager. And I don't say that lightly.
 
2014-01-10 01:57:33 PM

realmolo: rustypouch: b0rscht: cameroncrazy1984: Reasons I didn't get into Lost after the first season and reasons I will never get into Dr Who.

Bah, it's just fun mindless stuff, not to be taken too seriously; who cares if it doesn't always make sense. That's how I approach it anyway.

But I can't turn off my brain like that. Entertainment can be light, but it still should make sense and be internally consistent.

I don't care if a show/movie makes sense or is internally consistent, as long as *the show* doesn't care, either. It's when they try to pretend (and/or retcon) everything that my brain starts to hurt. Either be willfully consistent, or willfully inconsistent.


Precisely. Sitcoms generally don't care if their storylines are inconsistent, because they aren't meant to (in general) have longer story arcs. Serials and dramas ARE, which makes it all the more stupid when they aren't internally consistent. Another example would be comic books. No interest, because one event can have zero impact on the larger story, because a character could be magically brought back to life in the next issue. Pointless, is what it is.
 
2014-01-10 01:58:48 PM

FirstNationalBastard: I prefer to think it was season 4 RTD that kept Moffat reined in, not concrete blowjob RTD.


Occam's Razor kinda slices that to ribbons. More likely it was something else... maybe there have been different script editors under RTD and Moffat?
 
2014-01-10 01:59:32 PM

clkeagle: FirstNationalBastard: I prefer to think it was season 4 RTD that kept Moffat reined in, not concrete blowjob RTD.

Occam's Razor kinda slices that to ribbons. More likely it was something else... maybe there have been different script editors under RTD and Moffat?


Probably just got better cocaine as the budget increased.
 
2014-01-10 02:00:44 PM

Shazam999: Tasha Lem is quite clearly River Song.  The only way they could've made it more obvious is with a giant blinking red arrow pointing at her with the text "THIS IS RIVER SONG!".


Of course. "Tasha Lem" anagrams to "Aha! Mels (T)." Mels, of course, is the nickname for Melody Pond, AKA River Song. The "T" is to indicate that this incarnation is a pre-op MTF transsexual, which is why she gets to wear clothes in a church where everyone else has to be naked--otherwise it'd ruin the surprise. It'll be a major plot point going forward, I promise you.
 
2014-01-10 02:03:30 PM

No Such Agency: Does it improve once we ditch the obsession with the universe revolving around Amelia Pond and her timey-wimey uterus?


I'll never be over Macho Grande.

And if "Real Life" doesn't allow you to watch a TV show in the Age of DVRs, you may just be confused about what "Real Life" actually is.
 
2014-01-10 02:03:49 PM

Vaneshi: No Such Agency: Does it improve once we ditch the obsession with the universe revolving around Amelia Pond and her timey-wimey uterus?

No.  I moves from universe revolving mega-uterus to a companion who managed to be even more annoying and outright dumb than Rose was.

She should've stayed the thing she was introduced as... at least that would've been a funny companion for an episode or two.


Rose was dumb because she was a mouthy little chav living with her tarty mom in a council flat and working in a shop. Isn't this one a teacher?

They should definitely have kept her as a deluded Dalek. I did see that episode and it was good - "where did you get the milk for the souffle?" and all that.
 
2014-01-10 02:04:59 PM

semiotix: Shazam999: Tasha Lem is quite clearly River Song.  The only way they could've made it more obvious is with a giant blinking red arrow pointing at her with the text "THIS IS RIVER SONG!".

Of course. "Tasha Lem" anagrams to "Aha! Mels (T)." Mels, of course, is the nickname for Melody Pond, AKA River Song. The "T" is to indicate that this incarnation is a pre-op MTF transsexual, which is why she gets to wear clothes in a church where everyone else has to be naked--otherwise it'd ruin the surprise. It'll be a major plot point going forward, I promise you.


My, what a retort.  Well you've convinced me.
 
2014-01-10 02:05:47 PM

Shazam999: bk3k: [quote=TFA]Besides being the Mother Superious of the Papal Mainframe, she's probably River Song isn't she?
No she is not River.  While she could have otherwise been another regeneration of River, but River lost all her regenerations and we saw her death under the David Tennant doctor.

Tasha Lem is quite clearly River Song.  The only way they could've made it more obvious is with a giant blinking red arrow pointing at her with the text "THIS IS RIVER SONG!".


She had no personality even remotely like River Song. I found Tasha Lem to be almost as boring as she was irritating. River Song, OTOH, has always been a fun character.
 
2014-01-10 02:08:30 PM

FirstNationalBastard: I prefer to think it was season 4 RTD that kept Moffat reined in, not concrete blowjob RTD.


People rag on that episode, but I thought it was pretty good. The one-shot characters were amusing, the stupid foam-rubber monster of the week was fine for a change of pace, and we got to see Jackie Tyler in all her turboslut cougar glory.

As for concrete blowjobs, well, if I were in love with a woman who had been turned into a face in a pavement slab, I'm guessing we'd get there eventually. He's just acknowledging it!
 
2014-01-10 02:09:11 PM

soporific: Here's what I never got a satisfactory answer for. How exactly did locking the Doctor into the Pandorica result in the stars exploding? I never understood that one.


I think they thought that locking the Doctor in the Pandorica would stop the stars from disappearing. The stars were disappearing because of the crack in reality that was caused by the Tardis exploding.
 
2014-01-10 02:11:27 PM

Mikey1969: Shazam999: bk3k: [quote=TFA]Besides being the Mother Superious of the Papal Mainframe, she's probably River Song isn't she?
No she is not River.  While she could have otherwise been another regeneration of River, but River lost all her regenerations and we saw her death under the David Tennant doctor.

Tasha Lem is quite clearly River Song.  The only way they could've made it more obvious is with a giant blinking red arrow pointing at her with the text "THIS IS RIVER SONG!".

She had no personality even remotely like River Song. I found Tasha Lem to be almost as boring as she was irritating. River Song, OTOH, has always been a fun character.


She doesn't know she's River, obviously.  She's some sort of shadow.

Anyhoo, no use in me defending Moffat's decisions.  All I have to say is Orla Brady is one fine lookin' lady for 52.
 
2014-01-10 02:11:53 PM

Codenamechaz: For all the legitimate complaints about Moffat, never forget who came before

[i.imgur.com image 550x550]


People have gotten a lot of mileage out of those five seconds.  If you want to show the low of RTD, then Fear Her is where it goes.  Moffat is at his best when he's focused on just writing, and, especially, writing self-contained material.  Asking Moffat to create a larger story arc is asking for trouble, and I think he knows his own weaknesses: hence, the "every episode is a movie poster!" dreadful concept of last season.
 
2014-01-10 02:16:53 PM

soporific: clkeagle: soporific: Here's what I never got a satisfactory answer for. How exactly did locking the Doctor into the Pandorica result in the stars exploding? I never understood that one. I get that it was somehow connected to the Tardis exploding, but that leads to a bigger question - why did the Tardis explode? If it was sabotage, how was that possible?

The Silence had been in the Tardis for months or years, sabotaging it and causing its universe-ending explosion.

That makes sense, sort of, though I wonder why the Tardis couldn't detect them? I would have liked to have that explained on the show, even via a throwaway line.


There was what looked like a hint, but was never follow up on. The first time Amy's in the TARDIS she is looking around, then suddenly she gets a terrified look on her face and the music goes all sinister for a second, then when she looks back at the Doctor she is back to normal, seemingly forgetting whatever it was that scared her. There was a lot of speculation back in Season 6 that this was the Silence sneaking in and causing the sabotage, but nothing ever came of it. Maybe it'll get wrapped up later on, but it seems really doubtful at this point.

I'm also kind of disappointed Moffatt never followed up on young River being in NYC in the 70s at the same time the older Ponds would have been there. It would have been a perfect wrap up of that story if it was revealed they took her in, raised her when she regenerated into a baby, and then helped young Mels get to England in time to meet up with their younger selves. It would have been a great way to out their lost child back in their lives, while also filling in that blank of Melody Pond's life. I figured they'd work something into the Christmas special to give Eleven some release from that guilt, but it never happened.

I think I'm just a little disappointed because some of the fan speculation has been better than what we have seen from some of the latest season (Day of the Doctor excepted, because that one came to gather really well, I feel). The Time of the Doctor was just missing a little something. It should have been a grand struggle of Eleven against a seemingly tragic ending of his life, but it just never gelled in my opinion. I still think it was better than The End of Time, though. That one was just a hot mess of a regeneration story.
 
2014-01-10 02:20:58 PM

Mikey1969: No Such Agency: Does it improve once we ditch the obsession with the universe revolving around Amelia Pond and her timey-wimey uterus?

I'll never be over Macho Grande.

And if "Real Life" doesn't allow you to watch a TV show in the Age of DVRs, you may just be confused about what "Real Life" actually is.


Uh... Parents of a busy toddler, who don't watch TV enough to justify paying for Netflix or cable? We get Doctor Who on DVDs from the public library.
 
2014-01-10 02:24:56 PM

Shazam999: She doesn't know she's River, obviously.  She's some sort of shadow.

Anyhoo, no use in me defending Moffat's decisions.  All I have to say is Orla Brady is one fine lookin' lady for 52


I think that  Alex Kingston is pretty damned good looking, and she's only 2 years younger. Looking at Orla brady in something other than her horrible costuming on the show, I'd have to agree, she is a damn good looking woman.
 
2014-01-10 02:27:20 PM
My group of friends is all convinced that Tasha Lem is Romana.

Somehow.

Also, Jesus Christ people, if you don't like the show quit watching it. Quitcher biatchin. Damn.
 
2014-01-10 02:30:33 PM

Shazam999: bk3k: [quote=TFA]Besides being the Mother Superious of the Papal Mainframe, she's probably River Song isn't she?
No she is not River.  While she could have otherwise been another regeneration of River, but River lost all her regenerations and we saw her death under the David Tennant doctor.

Tasha Lem is quite clearly River Song.  The only way they could've made it more obvious is with a giant blinking red arrow pointing at her with the text "THIS IS RIVER SONG!".


So what you are saying is - if we ignore the facts including the fact that this literally cannot be River Song, then this is clearly River Song?  I don't want to misrepresent you.

And her line about the Doctor having a new body?  I would think that also CLEARLY disqualifies her.  River (from her perspective) first met the Doctor in Matt Smith's body.  Then again you are faced with River dying (and being digitized rather than regenerated) under the David Tennant doctor.
 
2014-01-10 02:30:40 PM
This thread pretty much confirms to me that I don't need to get back into Dr. Who. I grew up watching the reruns on PBS and was mildly interested in the return with Christopher Eccleston (though I felt that I'd outgrown the show and couldn't stay interested long enough to see the David Tenant era).

But from what I'm reading here, I wouldn't be able to handle all the inconsistencies, retcons and fake-outs. I suffered through enough of that with Lost and Battlestar Galactica.

Moffat is an inventive showrunner and a decent enough writer, but it sounds like he's digging a rabbit hole here. I'd prefer not to jump into it unless I know it's going to emerge somewhere I care to be.
 
2014-01-10 02:33:39 PM
I hate the whole Clara did it crap. She's responsible for the first Doctor stealing the Tardis? Every time the Doctor has saved someone or an entire planet it is because Clara? Please...

I'm going to pretend that episode never happened.
 
2014-01-10 02:34:22 PM
In Genesis of the Daleks, how come it will take the Daleks a thousand years to get out of a short, broken corridor?

Recently watched that serial; I had thought he was referring to the army of daleks that are now trapped in a collapsed cave of ice, not just the ones in the blowed-up hallway.

why does the Chessene look out of the window when she hears a noise rather than, say, use her telepathy?

Telepathy requires a mind (in her case, she could read one living or dead). Not everything that makes a noise has a mind. So maybe she did use her telepathy, got bupkus, and then looked out the window.

Etc...
 
2014-01-10 02:34:35 PM

whizbangthedirtfarmer: Codenamechaz: For all the legitimate complaints about Moffat, never forget who came before

[i.imgur.com image 550x550]

People have gotten a lot of mileage out of those five seconds.  If you want to show the low of RTD, then Fear Her is where it goes.  Moffat is at his best when he's focused on just writing, and, especially, writing self-contained material.  Asking Moffat to create a larger story arc is asking for trouble, and I think he knows his own weaknesses: hence, the "every episode is a movie poster!" dreadful concept of last season.


The thing is that his story arcs weren't bad as ideas, he just tends not to think beyond the end of any particular season and so things tend to pile on top of each other.  The best example of this, I think, is the introduction of the Flesh as a plot device which is then immediately resolved with A Good Man Goes to War.  Then Let's Kill Hitler introduces another shapeshifter (the Tesselector) which is paid off at the end of the season.  Having two similar plot devices in such short order stinks of failure to plan.  Putting the Flesh episodes in Season 5 and then calling back to them in season 6 might have been a better choice.

The reverse of this problem is the movie poster idea which I was enamored with at first, but lost me somewhat because the stories had no theme and no greater mystery to them.  For the first half of Season 7, the Doctor isn't doing anything; Not trying to figure out the cracks, not running from his death, not wondering if Amy is or isn't pregnant, etc.  He's just having indivdual adventures, and none of them are that compelling.

I feel like the search for Gallifrey gives 12 a good opportunity for a strong narrative arc which I'm looking forward to, and as much as I liked Smith, I think Tennant's Doctor was a better incarnation of the character.
 
2014-01-10 02:34:50 PM
Also I hope Clara leaves soon, I'm tired of companions being the most specialist people in the universe.
 
2014-01-10 02:35:03 PM

No Such Agency: Mikey1969: No Such Agency: Does it improve once we ditch the obsession with the universe revolving around Amelia Pond and her timey-wimey uterus?

I'll never be over Macho Grande.

And if "Real Life" doesn't allow you to watch a TV show in the Age of DVRs, you may just be confused about what "Real Life" actually is.

Uh... Parents of a busy toddler, who don't watch TV enough to justify paying for Netflix or cable? We get Doctor Who on DVDs from the public library.


Uh, my daughter is 5(We started watching after she was born.) Kids don't take away your ability to observe the world. Hell, she's now a Dr Who fan herself and got a TARDIS lunchbox for Christmas.

But you go on with that 'too cool to watch television' thing, it works in some circles.
 
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