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(CNN)   So...turns out al Qaeda controls more territory now than ever. So, we got that going for us   (cnn.com ) divider line
    More: Sad, al-Qaeda, Middle Eastern, Anbar, Ramadi, Peter Bergen, Prime Minister Nuri, Idlib, Anbar Province  
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6142 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Jan 2014 at 11:12 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-10 11:44:46 AM  

Infernalist: AverageAmericanGuy: I place the blame for this squarely on every asshole who signed up for military service after it was obvious we were going to invade Iraq. While the overall strategy was flawed, without volunteers and fresh recruits, we would not have been able to mount such an invasion and squander all the goodwill and support for the Afghan war we had after 9/11.

A strong anti-Iraq war message from the people to the politicians would have done well, but that message wasn't sent as people were falling over themselves to get sent into the desert and people back home were so busy "supporting the troops" when they should have been "condemning the troops" for volunteering to fight an unnecessary and dangerous war that has ultimately made America less safe.

Who couldn't have predicted that an underground terrorist operation that recruits from the angry families of those targeted by the American military as well as those who were killed as collateral damage would have grown in ranks and power from such an invasion and lack of focus? The answer is every American who supported the troops blindly, as if there were any merit in that.

Just an fyi, the vast surge of military volunteers came in the weeks after 9/11 when we were focused on Afghanistan.

But, by all means, continue to foam at the mouth, it's amusing.


Not to mention all that certainty about how Iraq had WMD. I won't fault anyone who enlisted under those false assumptions.

Average, you're dangerously close to blaming the victim here.
 
2014-01-10 11:44:50 AM  

USCLaw2010: CruJones: BadAndy23: ISIS is also operating in Syria.

Well at least there's a chance they'll royally screw it up.  If ODIN was operating there, then we'd have problems.

I laugh every time I see a reference to ISIS.  They really need to change their name.

/I didn't pass out, I took a power blackout

So what you're saying is that there is some sort of zone of danger between on the Iraqi-Syrian border?


DANGER ZONE!
 
2014-01-10 11:44:51 AM  
So... do all these "Al-Qaeda Affiliates" - who are from a host of tribal, national and ethnic groups who operate in remote regions where travel is difficult and communication lines are unreliable know that they're part of a united military organization with a central leadership who are operating a coordinated long term strategy despite the fact the job title "Al Qaeda's Second in Command" comes with a two week life expectancy?
 
GBB
2014-01-10 11:47:04 AM  
Ctrl+F: oil

/You guys are slipping.
//Leaving disappointed
 
2014-01-10 11:47:06 AM  
So everybody place your bets on if the republican front runners in 2016 will run a platform of "declare war and invade Iraq again".  If you think they cant possibly win the election on such a platform, you are part of the problem.
 
2014-01-10 11:47:30 AM  

EdNortonsTwin: More Al Qaeda seems to guarantee only one thing - more dead Muslims.


That's the game plan.
 
2014-01-10 11:48:13 AM  
Are they hiring?  Because there are plenty of Americans that could use a job or two.
 
2014-01-10 11:48:25 AM  

mike_d85: Carn: We are at war with al qaeda.  We have always been at war with al qaeda.

Yeah, they declared war on us years ago.



1948? 1953?
 
2014-01-10 11:48:29 AM  

Carn: We are at war with al qaeda.  We have always been at war with al qaeda.


Just say militant islam since thats what we are really at war with, and after watching the documentary on the "muslim brotherhood" Im almost to the point of not allowing muslims into western nations since their plan laid out was to disrupt politically from the inside.
 
2014-01-10 11:48:34 AM  

gshepnyc: We should never have treated them like a military enemy. We should have treated them like we did the Cosa Nostra other organized crime syndicates. And many people were saying that at the time but the Bushies and their mouth-breathing acolytes regarded that suggestion as tantamount to treason - like they regarded all other forms of criticism.

By treating them like a military enemy, we raised them up to a level (in terms of their ability to recruit, raise fund and sell their message) that they never could have managed on their own. If we had treated them like low mobsters, on par with pimps and child pornographers and drug pushers, we'd have done a lot better.


There are two big issues with that approach:

A) When fighting Cosa Nostra, all the major nations they operated in were developed nations that were committed and at least semi-capable of fighting Cosa Nostra.  This isn't really the case in the Middle East, where the governments have a loose hold on power and don't really have the support of a large portion of the populace

B) Jurisdiction.  Cosa Nostra operated heavily within the US, meaning the IRS, FBI, ATF, DEA and other organizations within the US government could act against them with relative ease.  With a few exceptions, AQ operates almost entirely outside of the US, which limits the actions the US can take if they are viewed as a criminal organization and not a military enemy.  You can agree or disagree with their classification as PoWs, but it is much easier to imprison a AQ member as a PoW than it is as a common criminal as was done with Cosa Nostra.
 
2014-01-10 11:48:45 AM  

i2.cdn.turner.com

There is never, NEVER going to be another FireFly TV series... GET OVER IT!

 
2014-01-10 11:49:29 AM  
The middle east sometimes makes me wish that we still carpet bombed...    I hate to say it, but the only ultimate solution might be to completley wipe out the places that produce pieces of shiat like the taliban.  but that would be a crime right?
 
2014-01-10 11:50:43 AM  
don't ya love articles by thinktanks instead of reporters?
 
2014-01-10 11:50:57 AM  

Carn: Tune in to Fox this January for the hilarious new sitcom Enlisted.  Join up today!!


That's nothing. You should see the the infomercial on Saturday mornings for the US Army called Army Strong that's run for little kids. At least GI Joe was subtle.

Plus economic conscription is still conscription. In this country you have three choices as youth for an occupation, McWallmart, College-debt trap (which just makes the military more tempting), the military, or jail.
 
2014-01-10 11:51:02 AM  

Maul555: The middle east sometimes makes me wish that we still carpet bombed...    I hate to say it, but the only ultimate solution might be to completley wipe out the places that produce pieces of shiat like the taliban.  but that would be a crime right?


I do believe genocide is still considered a crime, so yes.
 
2014-01-10 11:52:20 AM  
Franco:
Plus economic conscription is still conscription. In this country you have three choices as youth for an occupation, McWallmart, College-debt trap (which just makes the military more tempting), the military, or jail.

Three?
 
2014-01-10 11:52:31 AM  
This is good for us. It will be easier to identify our targets and enemies. Instead of having to be discerning and fight against an invisible enemy, we can just carpet bomb the hell out of them all! Huzzah! But seriously, I don't know how anyone thought it was possible to win a "war" with Al Qaeda. That is like saying you are going to wage a war against law-breakers. You will never get rid of law-breakers. You cannot do so. You set yourself up for failure at the very beginning. Once you kill one leader of the organization, another takes their place. This isn't like fighting against a nation where pretty much anyone in the vicinity is a combatant. That would be easy. We are not set up for fighting against this kind of threat. Al Qaeda's best hope for "survival" is to not get too big. The moment the entire nation is flagged as our enemy is the moment they lose.
 
2014-01-10 11:52:42 AM  

yakmans_dad: mike_d85: Carn: We are at war with al qaeda.  We have always been at war with al qaeda.

Yeah, they declared war on us years ago.


1948? 1953?


when we put bases in Saudi Arabia. 1979 or so?
 
2014-01-10 11:53:20 AM  

Maul555: The middle east sometimes makes me wish that we still carpet bombed...    I hate to say it, but the only ultimate solution might be to completley wipe out the places that produce pieces of shiat like the taliban.  but that would be a crime right?


So we have to start nuking red states?  That sounds extreme.
 
2014-01-10 11:53:58 AM  

Maul555: The middle east sometimes makes me wish that we still carpet bombed...    I hate to say it, but the only ultimate solution might be to completley wipe out the places that produce pieces of shiat like the taliban.  but that would be a crime right?


Apparently indiscriminately wiping out millions of people to get rid of a few thousand extremists who are mostly engaged in tribal conflicts and actions that are no worse than a lot pre-1900's western history puts you on the moral high ground....
 
2014-01-10 11:54:04 AM  

Maul555: The middle east sometimes makes me wish that we still carpet bombed...    I hate to say it, but the only ultimate solution might be to completley wipe out the places that produce pieces of shiat like the taliban.  but that would be a crime right?


Don't be silly.  It's not like those country are full of normal folk that are quite content to let the world be and just want to live their lives without fear of death-from-above.

Sure, they have some loonies in their midst.  Hell, a few of them are even in 'charge' of their little corners of the world, but if you're okay with carpet bombing nations simply on the grounds that a few of them hate us and want us dead, then you can't blame them for using bombs on 'us' because of the GOP and the Tea Party lunatics who constantly want us to kill them.
 
2014-01-10 11:55:12 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: I place the blame for this squarely on every asshole who signed up for military service after it was obvious we were going to invade Iraq. While the overall strategy was flawed, without volunteers and fresh recruits, we would not have been able to mount such an invasion and squander all the goodwill and support for the Afghan war we had after 9/11.

A strong anti-Iraq war message from the people to the politicians would have done well, but that message wasn't sent as people were falling over themselves to get sent into the desert and people back home were so busy "supporting the troops" when they should have been "condemning the troops" for volunteering to fight an unnecessary and dangerous war that has ultimately made America less safe.

Who couldn't have predicted that an underground terrorist operation that recruits from the angry families of those targeted by the American military as well as those who were killed as collateral damage would have grown in ranks and power from such an invasion and lack of focus? The answer is every American who supported the troops blindly, as if there were any merit in that.


It must be wonderful being right all the time.
 
2014-01-10 11:55:15 AM  
content6.flixster.com
 
2014-01-10 11:55:40 AM  

Ghastly: Maul555: The middle east sometimes makes me wish that we still carpet bombed...    I hate to say it, but the only ultimate solution might be to completley wipe out the places that produce pieces of shiat like the taliban.  but that would be a crime right?

I do believe genocide is still considered a crime, so yes.


Are they doing the same thing?

Why dont we pass new laws that say you cant hide in Schools or churches,  use suicide bombers or IEDs, and only fight on battlefields
 
2014-01-10 11:56:01 AM  

yakmans_dad: mike_d85: Carn: We are at war with al qaeda.  We have always been at war with al qaeda.

Yeah, they declared war on us years ago.


1948? 1953?


When did that Rambo move come out?  1992?  Let's go with that.
 
2014-01-10 11:56:27 AM  
Ok, so foreign policy isn't really Obama's thing.   But hey!  He still has the rockin' economy and Obamacare to toot his own horn over....
 
2014-01-10 11:58:07 AM  
So, the War on Terror really is Veitnam 2: The Muslim Boogaloo. A Republican president starting an unpopular war, a Democratic president quitting before the job is completed, and our enemy emerging stronger than ever. Why it's almost as if you are not prepared to re-educate an entire population and slaughter 7 out of 10 males over the age of 16 you can't create victory.

Thank you Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld the two assholes who were involved in both Vietnam and The War on Terror, both of which failed.
 
2014-01-10 11:58:27 AM  
War NEVER really works unless you go in with the realization that you MUST kill everything alive in the area.  The last REAL war was WWII.  You just go in and carpet bomb.
 
2014-01-10 11:58:34 AM  

BravadoGT: Ok, so foreign policy isn't really Obama's thing.   But hey!  He still has the rockin' economy and Obamacare to toot his own horn over....


OBL.
 
2014-01-10 11:58:42 AM  

Franco: Plus economic conscription is still conscription. In this country you have three choices as youth for an occupation, McWallmart, College-debt trap (which just makes the military more tempting), the military, or jail.


i651.photobucket.com

Or all of the above!!1

1) Work at McWallmart, but can't survive on a no bene, $7.15/week PT job, so
2) Get degree by falling into College-debt trap, but there are no jobs for grads, so
3) Join the military and get crippled on first tour + a severe case of PTSD, so
4) End up living on the streets, giving handjobs for crack until you get busted and sent
5) To jail.
 
2014-01-10 11:58:56 AM  

Franco: Carn: Tune in to Fox this January for the hilarious new sitcom Enlisted.  Join up today!!

That's nothing. You should see the the infomercial on Saturday mornings for the US Army called Army Strong that's run for little kids. At least GI Joe was subtle.

Plus economic conscription is still conscription. In this country you have three choices as youth for an occupation, McWallmart, College-debt trap (which just makes the military more tempting), the military, or jail.


Funny, now wars are actually closer to fighting Cobra than anything else.
 
2014-01-10 11:59:33 AM  

master_dman: War NEVER really works unless you go in with the realization that you MUST kill everything alive in the area.  The last REAL war was WWII.  You just go in and carpet bomb.


Korean war veterans think you're full of shiat.
 
2014-01-10 12:00:13 PM  

Maul555: The middle east sometimes makes me wish that we still carpet bombed...    I hate to say it, but the only ultimate solution might be to completley wipe out the places that produce pieces of shiat like the taliban.  but that would be a crime right?


aww, you've started out softly softly this time.

you still suck

1/5
 
2014-01-10 12:04:12 PM  

BravadoGT: Ok, so foreign policy isn't really Obama's thing.   But hey!  He still has the rockin' economy and Obamacare to toot his own horn over....



I blew it. I should have voted for John McCain and Sara Palin.  I don't know what I was thinking.  We could be invading Iran and Syria and Potato at this very moment.
 
2014-01-10 12:04:20 PM  
The ongoing "war against nouns." In order to play you name a Czar and lose the game on every front by throwing money at the issue. You'll never have enough money.
 
2014-01-10 12:04:41 PM  
dancingczars.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-01-10 12:06:08 PM  

Infernalist: master_dman: War NEVER really works unless you go in with the realization that you MUST kill everything alive in the area.  The last REAL war was WWII.  You just go in and carpet bomb.

Korean war veterans think you're full of shiat.


It wasn't what he meant, but the Korean war was where we started seeing these "shadow wars" where it wasn't 2 major powers going head to head (which might have caused WWIII immediately).  Instead we had the US fighting "Korea" who were largely communists from all over east Asia in Soviet equipment.

Repeat this with Vietnam, Afghanistan round 1 (reverse equipment and army), a handful of conflicts in Africa and South America (sometimes with no direct army), and a few other cold war conflicts that kept the world from being nuked but produced mediocre spy movies.
 
2014-01-10 12:06:52 PM  

Infernalist: master_dman: War NEVER really works unless you go in with the realization that you MUST kill everything alive in the area.  The last REAL war was WWII.  You just go in and carpet bomb.

Korean war veterans think you're full of shiat.


The Korean War was a war waged between the North and the South that effectively has not ended but instead established a division between North and South Korea. With the ME, you are dealing with militant Islam whose goal is world domination, expansion, and the conversion or genocide of everyone else. If all they wanted was their little territory and be left alone, that's one thing but they will not accept any sort of negotiation. Further, there is really no cohesive "other" side to the coin to maintain equilibrium.
 
2014-01-10 12:07:08 PM  

mike_d85: Infernalist: master_dman: War NEVER really works unless you go in with the realization that you MUST kill everything alive in the area.  The last REAL war was WWII.  You just go in and carpet bomb.

Korean war veterans think you're full of shiat.

It wasn't what he meant, but the Korean war was where we started seeing these "shadow wars" where it wasn't 2 major powers going head to head (which might have caused WWIII immediately).  Instead we had the US fighting "Korea" who were largely communists from all over east Asia in Soviet equipment.

Repeat this with Vietnam, Afghanistan round 1 (reverse equipment and army), a handful of conflicts in Africa and South America (sometimes with no direct army), and a few other cold war conflicts that kept the world from being nuked but produced mediocre spy movies.


If that's what he meant, then maybe that's what he should have said.
 
2014-01-10 12:07:22 PM  

Hobodeluxe: yakmans_dad: mike_d85: Carn: We are at war with al qaeda.  We have always been at war with al qaeda.

Yeah, they declared war on us years ago.


1948? 1953?

when we put bases in Saudi Arabia. 1979 or so?


I have a hard time believing that, given that AQ wasn't founded until 1988.  A better date would be 1992, when they launched attacks on US soldiers in Yemen en route to a famine relief operation in Somalia.  That attack failed, though, since the soldiers weren't staying where AQ thought they were.  An argument could also be made for 1993, when the first WTC bombing happened, or in 1996, when Bin Laden issued a Fatawa against the US (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fataw%C4%81_of_Osama_bin_Laden#1996_fat w. C4.81) and AQ operatives attempted to assassinate President Clinton.
 
2014-01-10 12:08:06 PM  

the money is in the banana stand: Infernalist: master_dman: War NEVER really works unless you go in with the realization that you MUST kill everything alive in the area.  The last REAL war was WWII.  You just go in and carpet bomb.

Korean war veterans think you're full of shiat.

The Korean War was a war waged between the North and the South that effectively has not ended but instead established a division between North and South Korea. With the ME, you are dealing with militant Islam whose goal is world domination, expansion, and the conversion or genocide of everyone else. If all they wanted was their little territory and be left alone, that's one thing but they will not accept any sort of negotiation. Further, there is really no cohesive "other" side to the coin to maintain equilibrium.


That's awesome.  Also completely irrelevant to my post, but okay?
 
2014-01-10 12:09:26 PM  

CruJones: This may mean something, I have no idea, but I don't know if judging them by the square mileage they control is a good method.  Are their numbers up, more attacks, etc.?  Or do they just control a huge swath of nothing?


This is probably the smartest post in the thread. It says it's around the border between Iraq and Syria.

So to put it simply, they control parts of a country in the middle of a major civil war and parts of two already-unstable cities in Iraq, and even there I don't expect the Iraqi government will let it last too long. And a lot of desert in between.

Al Qaeda needs instability to thrive, and they have it in that area. But I don't see it lasting long after the Syrian civil war ends, unless the worst possible group of rebels wins.
 
2014-01-10 12:09:57 PM  

drivingsouth: [dancingczars.files.wordpress.com image 480x360]


It's  like you never left...
 
2014-01-10 12:10:35 PM  

drivingsouth: [dancingczars.files.wordpress.com image 480x360]


No.
 
2014-01-10 12:10:54 PM  

mike_d85: Infernalist: master_dman: War NEVER really works unless you go in with the realization that you MUST kill everything alive in the area.  The last REAL war was WWII.  You just go in and carpet bomb.

Korean war veterans think you're full of shiat.

It wasn't what he meant, but the Korean war was where we started seeing these "shadow wars" where it wasn't 2 major powers going head to head (which might have caused WWIII immediately).  Instead we had the US fighting "Korea" who were largely communists from all over east Asia in Soviet equipment.

Repeat this with Vietnam, Afghanistan round 1 (reverse equipment and army), a handful of conflicts in Africa and South America (sometimes with no direct army), and a few other cold war conflicts that kept the world from being nuked but produced mediocre spy movies.


And China was openly operating in Korea.  While they weren't exactly operating with modern equipment, they were a major military power, even back then.  Korea saw lots of major conventional military actions between true national armies.
 
2014-01-10 12:14:41 PM  

Target Builder: Maul555: The middle east sometimes makes me wish that we still carpet bombed...    I hate to say it, but the only ultimate solution might be to completley wipe out the places that produce pieces of shiat like the taliban.  but that would be a crime right?

Apparently indiscriminately wiping out millions of people to get rid of a few thousand extremists who are mostly engaged in tribal conflicts and actions that are no worse than a lot pre-1900's western history puts you on the moral high ground....


I view terrorism like a virus outbreak or something similar.   You have to initiate quarantine procedures or risk losing much much much more...  And as technology continues to advance in the western world, we have more and more to lose by terrorists acquiring our technological scraps and inventions...  We already see this with nuclear weapons.  We are dealing with people that would wipe out billions of us if they could just press a red button.
 
2014-01-10 12:15:29 PM  
also, I was not advocating wiping out entire nations.... just carpet bomb their strongholds whenever they announce them.
 
2014-01-10 12:15:48 PM  

drivingsouth: [dancingczars.files.wordpress.com image 480x360]


That better be irony, Mister! That man is Al Qaeda's biggest hero. He's done more to unite and strengthen Al Qaeda than Bin Laden did.
 
2014-01-10 12:16:18 PM  

Infernalist: master_dman: War NEVER really works unless you go in with the realization that you MUST kill everything alive in the area.  The last REAL war was WWII.  You just go in and carpet bomb.

Korean war veterans think you're full of shiat.


Uh.. no.  We didn't go in and kill everything in sight.  We failed miserably.  We quit and gave up.

Let me rephrase it for dimwits.. To win a war.. as in.. really win a war.. you KILL everything.
 
2014-01-10 12:18:01 PM  

TDWCom29: So thousands of lives, trillions of dollars, and more than a decade of fighting and it's still this easy for them to take over? Maybe warring harder will make us win!


I warred pretty hard last weekend.
 
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