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(Gawker)   That whole anonymity thing on the Internet? Yeah, about that   (gawker.com) divider line 187
    More: Followup, Courthouse News Service  
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12985 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Jan 2014 at 9:48 AM (33 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



187 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-01-10 09:51:11 AM
FTA: "false statements of fact"

hmmmm... I think maybe the judge should have stopped while he was ahead...
 
2014-01-10 09:51:14 AM
Oh no! this could just RUIN trolling!They must be stopped!
 
2014-01-10 09:52:00 AM
bfolder.ru
 
2014-01-10 09:52:23 AM
So Amy's baking company will follow suit now?
 
2014-01-10 09:53:57 AM
OH NO!

NOW SOMEONE WILL FIGURE OUT MY NAME AND WHAT CITY I LIVE IN!

*runs away*
 
2014-01-10 09:54:03 AM
So, the owner is going on the assumption that because he reply's to comments by his customers, and that these specific ones were posted by anonymous users that they were not written by actual customers. So now he want's to sue for defamation.
What happens when he finds out that yes, they were customers who were pissed off and just didn't feel like creating an account on yelp? Do they get to counter sue?
 
2014-01-10 09:55:23 AM
Relevant (and also my desktop as I write this): http://www.cad-comic.com/cad/20100707
 
2014-01-10 09:55:45 AM
You can have my real-life identity when you pry it from cold dead fingers.
 
2014-01-10 09:55:52 AM

HindiDiscoMonster: FTA: "false statements of fact"

hmmmm... I think maybe the judge should have stopped while he was ahead...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_statements_of_fact 

Or maybe you should have.
 
2014-01-10 09:55:53 AM
There's never been anonymity on the internet.  Ever.
 
2014-01-10 09:56:40 AM

AgentPothead: [bfolder.ru image 455x567]


I could get behind Boxy if ya know what I mean and I think ya do... well... if she shut up anyway.
 
2014-01-10 09:58:48 AM
I wonder how that restaurant in Maryville is doing...?
 
2014-01-10 09:59:24 AM

HindiDiscoMonster: I could get behind Boxy if ya know what I mean and I think ya do... well... if she shut up anyway.


Yeah, like that'll ever happen.
 
2014-01-10 10:00:15 AM

Jim from Saint Paul: OH NO!

NOW SOMEONE WILL FIGURE OUT MY NAME AND WHAT CITY I LIVE IN!  WHAT VPN SERVICE I'M USING

*runs away*


FTFY
 
2014-01-10 10:01:13 AM

lilplatinum: HindiDiscoMonster: FTA: "false statements of fact"

hmmmm... I think maybe the judge should have stopped while he was ahead...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_statements_of_fact
Or maybe you should have.


no, I don't care what wiki says... it's not the be all end all of wisdom, nor do I care what some esoteric fuddy duddy says is correct, it sounds clumsy and wrong, and the idea can be represented much more gracefully.

false = opposite of true
facts are true

so it should be "false statement" - FULL STOP.
or; "the motherfarker lied" - FULL STOP. (for a little more color)
 
2014-01-10 10:01:41 AM
Also no absolute right to anonymity?  Be careful what you ask for because that means the government can force the identities of donors to super PACs to be identified.
 
2014-01-10 10:01:49 AM

joyride75: HindiDiscoMonster: I could get behind Boxy if ya know what I mean and I think ya do... well... if she shut up anyway.

Yeah, like that'll ever happen.


I know of a way to make her shut up... :)

/anyway....
 
2014-01-10 10:02:10 AM

lilplatinum: HindiDiscoMonster: FTA: "false statements of fact"

hmmmm... I think maybe the judge should have stopped while he was ahead...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_statements_of_fact 

Or maybe you should have.


Shouldn't it be false statements presented as facts? Even if this is a legal definition, it's contradictory.
 
2014-01-10 10:02:52 AM

Satan's Bunny Slippers: There's never been anonymity on the internet.  Ever.


Sadly, true. People could always find out you're a dog. At least when they met you for that eHarmony date.

/lesson learned
 
2014-01-10 10:02:55 AM

Warlordtrooper: Also no absolute right to anonymity?  Be careful what you ask for because that means the government can force the identities of donors to super PACs to be identified.


remember, it's one law for me, one law for thee... so the rich are not bound under the same terms.
 
2014-01-10 10:03:31 AM

lockers: lilplatinum: HindiDiscoMonster: FTA: "false statements of fact"

hmmmm... I think maybe the judge should have stopped while he was ahead...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_statements_of_fact
Or maybe you should have.

Shouldn't it be false statements presented as facts? Even if this is a legal definition, it's contradictory.


ding... we have a winner. :)
 
2014-01-10 10:04:06 AM

Unoriginal_Username: So, the owner is going on the assumption that because he reply's to comments by his customers, and that these specific ones were posted by anonymous users that they were not written by actual customers. So now he want's to sue for defamation.
What happens when he finds out that yes, they were customers who were pissed off and just didn't feel like creating an account on yelp? Do they get to counter sue?


In this case I agree with his ruling. Cyber defamation and bullying are out of control right now and people should be held accountable for the damage they cause.
 
2014-01-10 10:04:23 AM

Jim from Saint Paul: OH NO!

NOW SOMEONE WILL FIGURE OUT MY NAME AND WHAT CITY I LIVE IN!

*runs away*


You're in trouble now, Bob from El Paso.
 
2014-01-10 10:04:24 AM
Yelp can suck a fart from my ass.

Posed a review of a local Mexican joint (nothing over the top, pretty straight forward review) and they pulled it.
 
2014-01-10 10:04:43 AM

HindiDiscoMonster: AgentPothead: [bfolder.ru image 455x567]

I could get behind Boxy if ya know what I mean and I think ya do... well... if she shut up anyway.


I was gonna post the Chris Hansen picture, but I guess she's actually 22 now. Which makes me feel old.
 
2014-01-10 10:05:42 AM

Random Anonymous Blackmail: Yelp can suck a fart from my ass.

Posed a review of a local Mexican joint (nothing over the top, pretty straight forward review) and they pulled it.


wait just a damned minute... you mean I haven't been getting all the services they offer?
 
2014-01-10 10:06:36 AM

AgentPothead: HindiDiscoMonster: AgentPothead: [bfolder.ru image 455x567]

I could get behind Boxy if ya know what I mean and I think ya do... well... if she shut up anyway.

I was gonna post the Chris Hansen picture, but I guess she's actually 22 now. Which makes me feel old.


You can post him anyway, I hear he likes to watch.
 
2014-01-10 10:08:39 AM
jahannandsons.com

/anonymous reviewer?
 
2014-01-10 10:08:52 AM
i'm on an unsecured internet connection, my name nowhere to be found...

Wouldn't it be hard to find who I am?

/yelps
 
2014-01-10 10:09:45 AM
So what does he expect?

e-mail addresses?
Then what?

I'm not really sure how much info Yelp is going to collect on any of its users.

Does he expect IP addresses so he can order the ISP to produce logs of customers using that IP during that time?
 
2014-01-10 10:10:11 AM

HindiDiscoMonster: no, I don't care what wiki says... it's not the be all end all of wisdom, nor do I care what some esoteric fuddy duddy says is correct


How about a legal dictionary?   http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/statement+of+facts

Sorry, just because you disagree with how something sounds in your gut does not mean that someone using a commonly accepted, for centuries, legal term in the proper way doesn't imply that they should "quit while they are ahead"
 
2014-01-10 10:10:37 AM
Yelp is a racket, plain and simple.

I get a call from them every six months or so wanting me to advertise with them.  "Put my flagged reviews back up, and we'll talk."  "Yadda yadda algorithm, born fully formed from on high yadda yadda" "Tell me how you are different from a protection racket. 'Nice reviews; shame if something happened to them.'" "I'm gonna go ahead and end this call."

EVERY time.

Yelp can lick my asshole.
 
2014-01-10 10:10:48 AM

Prank Call of Cthulhu: You can have my real-life identity when you pry it from cold dead fingers.


No one in their right mind would want mine
 
2014-01-10 10:11:22 AM

Unoriginal_Username: So, the owner is going on the assumption that because he reply's to comments by his customers, and that these specific ones were posted by anonymous users that they were not written by actual customers. So now he want's to sue for defamation.
What happens when he finds out that yes, they were customers who were pissed off and just didn't feel like creating an account on yelp? Do they get to counter sue?


He would know if he had screwed customers around like that, and it would be his folly to bring all that to light, if he is a crooked business owner.  Now if he's just a bully who knows what he'd do.  But to go to such lengths - It would not protect his reputation to identify customers he really did screw over.

And if customers are yelping that, and not even lodging complaints with the business then they're pretty dumb.  He deserves to be given a chance to make it right if people are that upset.
 
2014-01-10 10:11:43 AM
I never assume that anything is anonymous on the internet.  However, I do feel a little more secure around Fark if only for 2 things.  There are so many users here, I rarely get noticed.  I don't think I know a single user here in real life.
 
2014-01-10 10:13:31 AM
They seem to making the argument that you have to be an actual customer to leave a bad review of a company.

I don't think that's the case. I could leave a bad review of a company who gave a friend or relative shoddy service. I could leave a shoddy review of a company if they were hard to contact, get a quote from or overall gave me a reason not to be their customer. I could leave a shoddy review of a company if one of their vans cut me off in traffic.

Reviews do not have to be spot on truth. They're about perception and opinion. If you don't like my opinion about your crappy company, tough shiat. Man up and change your service perspective or stfu.

/pms & estrogen surge hitting hard today
 
2014-01-10 10:13:36 AM

lilplatinum: HindiDiscoMonster: no, I don't care what wiki says... it's not the be all end all of wisdom, nor do I care what some esoteric fuddy duddy says is correct

How about a legal dictionary?   http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/statement+of+facts

Sorry, just because you disagree with how something sounds in your gut does not mean that someone using a commonly accepted, for centuries, legal term in the proper way doesn't imply that they should "quit while they are ahead"


I consider legalese something akin to Klingon or Vulcan... made up languages...

what he said is akin to saying "its a false truth" or "it's a black white" or "it's an on off"
it's one or the other... make up your damn mind.
 
2014-01-10 10:13:55 AM

JoieD'Zen: Unoriginal_Username: So, the owner is going on the assumption that because he reply's to comments by his customers, and that these specific ones were posted by anonymous users that they were not written by actual customers. So now he want's to sue for defamation.
What happens when he finds out that yes, they were customers who were pissed off and just didn't feel like creating an account on yelp? Do they get to counter sue?

In this case I agree with his ruling. Cyber defamation and bullying are out of control right now and people should be held accountable for the damage they cause.


Sure, but again, if they are legitimate customers do they now have the ability to counter sue? Seeing as they review is legitimate?
 
2014-01-10 10:14:10 AM

lilplatinum: Sorry, just because you disagree with how something sounds in your gut does not mean that someone using a commonly accepted, for centuries, legal term in the proper way doesn't imply that they should "quit while they are ahead"


For centuries we had slavery. Just because something is old doesn't make it not stupid.
 
2014-01-10 10:14:11 AM

QueenMamaBee: Jim from Saint Paul: OH NO!

NOW SOMEONE WILL FIGURE OUT MY NAME AND WHAT CITY I LIVE IN!

*runs away*

You're in trouble now, Bob from El Paso.


Crap. My cover's blown!
 
2014-01-10 10:14:30 AM

mikaloyd: Oh no! this could just RUIN trolling!They must be stopped!


Notice how so many sites have integrated Facebook commenting, but that doesn't seem to mitigate people's ignorance/dickish behavior? Penny Arcade's Greater Internet Farkwad Theory has been proven not entirely correct. You don't need anonymity, just an audience.
 
2014-01-10 10:15:04 AM
Statement: A thing you say. 
Statement of Fact: A thing you say with the intent that it be assumed to be factual.
False Statement: A thing you say that isn't true.
False statement of Fact: A thing you say that you intended to be assumed as fact but is not true. 

Does that help hammer it out for you? This is pretty basic, I feel. 

In the meantime, this is a discovery case. Yelp releases the data of the comments(IP addresses, etc), which, let's face it, most idiots on the web aren't smart enough to use a proxy, or are dumb enough to use one of the listed proxies on and among any of the various troll sites around the web that just happen to be FBI sting spots(Yeah, how many idiots have you seen in the so-called "Anonymous" groups that do something huge and get arrested AFTER saying they were behind seven shiatty internet memes). Which means that the business owner can get a hold of their personal data via their ISP and go after the person. Which makes this pretty easy.

From there, the case is a simple open/shut. Did the customer in question actually have business with the owner? A simple credit card statement can prove that. No? Then yes, this lawsuit is valid. Yes? Then the case gets thrown out. And if it's one user that Was a customer, but is falsely inflating the business's reputation in a bad light by posting several reviews? Well, there's a case for that too.
 
2014-01-10 10:16:39 AM

HindiDiscoMonster: I consider legalese something akin to Klingon or Vulcan... made up languages...


It's almost as if different professions have their own vernacular.
 
2014-01-10 10:16:43 AM
buy a laptop for cash- NO WARRANTIES!!!!
Remove the imbedded webcam physically
only use it at public wi-fi spots with no CC cameras
use Knopix (on CD OS)
never enter any true personal info
never even turn it on at your place

internet anonymity. It ain't easy or particularly cheap but it can be done.

no, no particular reason I've thought this through this thoroughly
 
2014-01-10 10:17:37 AM

vharshyde: Statement: A thing you say.
Statement of Fact: A thing you say with the intent that it be assumed to be factual.
False Statement: A thing you say that isn't true.
False statement of Fact: A thing you say that you intended to be assumed as fact but is not true.
Does that help hammer it out for you? This is pretty basic, I feel.


So, the judge is saying he is psychic... ok, that clears things up.
 
2014-01-10 10:18:44 AM
The assumption is that the statement was intended as factual unless it is obviously satirical. And someone generally makes a judgment about whether that's the case... You know... Someone judges that. They JUDGE that. Get the hint yet?
 
2014-01-10 10:18:49 AM
Protip: It's usually the owner of another (competing) business that posts these kind of accusations, and not bored online bullies.
 
2014-01-10 10:19:01 AM

lilplatinum: HindiDiscoMonster: I consider legalese something akin to Klingon or Vulcan... made up languages...

It's almost as if different professions have their own vernacular.


yeah, and most of them use "english" in the USA... unless of course you are in Florida... then you have to press 2 for english... :@
 
2014-01-10 10:20:12 AM

vharshyde: The assumption is that the statement was intended as factual unless it is obviously satirical. And someone generally makes a judgment about whether that's the case... You know... Someone judges that. They JUDGE that. Get the hint yet?


I seem to remember a little pearl of wisdom about assumptions... something about asses....
 
2014-01-10 10:20:18 AM
It's basically inevitable that we leave trails behind us that, with enough detective work, can be traced back to us. Anonymity on the Internet is, and always has been, more of a gentleman's agreement than anything else: don't abuse it, and we won't pry. It isn't hard to argue that the definitions of "abuse" still need refinement, though, and that leads us to today.

Still, it seems to me that for cases like this, a kind of third-party "verification broker" would be wise. In this case, the broker would receive the reviewer identities from Yelp and the customer records from Hadeed, and (at first) answer a simple yes or no to whether or not the reviewer actually appears on Hadeed's customer rolls. The actual identity of the reviewer would be revealed only if the review itself turned out to be fraudulent -i.e. in the case of hard evidence of actual wrongdoing- so that the identities of legitimate-but-negative reviewers are still protected.
 
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