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(Hartford Courant)   Parents: "Our daughter is sick, please help us." Boston Medical Center: "Go away, she's ours now"   (courant.com) divider line 89
    More: Followup, Boston Medical Center, West Hartford, mitochondrial disease, loss of appetite, Children's Hospital Boston, psychiatric hospitals, Massachusetts Department of Public Health, Department of Children  
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15950 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Jan 2014 at 10:53 PM (50 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-09 10:56:17 PM  
Trolltastic headlines with 0 comments get greened?

It happens more often than you think.
 
2014-01-09 10:57:03 PM  
Wasn't this posted about 3 months ago? I think it may have been a repeat then too...
 
2014-01-09 11:02:45 PM  
Question I have is if this was a real disease, wouldn't cessation of the original treatment have already shown her relapsing?

Seems that BMC may be on to something, if the treatment for the psychological issue is keeping the symptoms at bay.

Would not the amount of time have shown some changes if this was physical?
 
2014-01-09 11:03:17 PM  
Is this the same one, or a new one?
 
2014-01-09 11:05:27 PM  
"Barry Pollack, a Boston attorney for a woman whose daughter was kept in Bader 5 for several weeks, recently wrote a letter to the Massachusetts Department of Public Health demanding that the psychiatric ward be closed. "

Justina Justina bo-bina,
Banana mana fo-fina,
Fi fi momina,
Justina!
 
2014-01-09 11:05:56 PM  
I grow weary of these ObamaCare stories. We get it. ObamaCare sucks.

Dnrtfa.
 
2014-01-09 11:08:36 PM  

i.imgur.com

 
2014-01-09 11:13:07 PM  

itsaidwhat: I grow weary of these ObamaCare stories. We get it. ObamaCare sucks.

Dnrtfa.


Not exactly sure how you got obamacare out of this one, but all power to ya.
 
2014-01-09 11:13:36 PM  

BBtB: Wasn't this posted about 3 months ago? I think it may have been a repeat then too...


The linked story is a current update to the previous story. The previous story was hosted at a "natural health" website, the same sort of website that eschews effective and tested treatments and vaccines in favour of holistic and homeopathic treatment.
 
2014-01-09 11:14:45 PM  

itsaidwhat: I grow weary of these ObamaCare stories. We get it. ObamaCare sucks.

Dnrtfa.


Well, that explains why you think it has something to do with Obamacare.
 
2014-01-09 11:15:00 PM  
Damn, these reads like something out of a 50's horror movie, getting thrown in the looney bin by evil psychiatrists...
 
2014-01-09 11:19:44 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Is this the same one, or a new one?


This is like the 5th or so time this hospital has done this in the last year.  I'd be wary about stepping foot inside their facility.
 
2014-01-09 11:26:20 PM  

penthesilea: Marcus Aurelius: Is this the same one, or a new one?

This is like the 5th or so time this hospital has done this in the last year.  I'd be wary about stepping foot inside their facility.


You can check out any time you like but you can never leave.
 
2014-01-09 11:28:46 PM  

grumpfuff: Trolltastic headlines with 0 comments get greened?

It happens more often than you think.


This and this only. Subby is a pathetic biatch.
 
2014-01-09 11:31:04 PM  

Slartibartfaster: itsaidwhat: I grow weary of these ObamaCare stories. We get it. ObamaCare sucks.

Dnrtfa.

Not exactly sure how you got obamacare out of this one, but all power to ya.


Clearly Bush administration policies led to this sad state of affairs.
 
2014-01-09 11:31:30 PM  
jeeze, farkers who don't engage brains before putting mouths in gear.
 
2014-01-09 11:34:55 PM  
what we've got here is a failure to communicate
 
2014-01-09 11:38:32 PM  
This is a downfall in Mass. Parents are guilty until proven innocent if any allegation is made of them.
 
2014-01-09 11:40:26 PM  
I don't think I've ever heard stories of a good mental ward, and citing information from Fox gives leaves me stuck in the middle about both parties. Why does all this depressing stuff come up right before I plan to sleep?

/Fark the mental health care system, it needs to be revamped and improved
//Lost some friends because of it, didn't help the ones who came back.
 
2014-01-09 11:42:32 PM  

Virtual Pariah: Question I have is if this was a real disease, wouldn't cessation of the original treatment have already shown her relapsing?

Seems that BMC may be on to something, if the treatment for the psychological issue is keeping the symptoms at bay.

Would not the amount of time have shown some changes if this was physical?


Treatment seems pretty limited http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_disease
The better question is if the psychological treatment isn't effective, would the dr.s at BMC change their diagnoses? I'm thinking the answer is no...

The great thing about a diagnoses of exclusion like somatoform disorder for a dr. is that its hard to prove your diagnoses is wrong, as proving a negative tends to be.
 
2014-01-09 11:44:19 PM  
Headline: ZOMG teh hospitals is stealing our babbehs for no reason at all!
Article, albeit a bit buried:

"The definition is when a child has received unnecessary and potentially harmful health care at the instigation of caretakers," Roesler said this week...
Dr. Jurriaan Peters, a neurologist at Boston Children's, wrote that he was "concerned about the distribution of care across multiple providers in different facilities and across state lines, the number of invasive procedures Justina has been submitted to."
According to Peters in another report, Justina has had an exploratory laparotomy, an apendectomy, several colonoscopies and a cecostomy tube placement.


Sounds like there's two sides to the story, at the very least.
 
2014-01-09 11:46:28 PM  
Anyone who's ever played Parasite Eve knows exactly what is going on here.
 
2014-01-09 11:47:11 PM  
Parents: Our daughter has a weird disorder with nebulous symptoms necessitating multiple invasive surgeries, and our doctor agrees.

Boston Children's: Your daughter is the victim of medical child abuse, i.e. we think you're having all these procedures done on her because you're torturing her for your own sick needs.

And since both conditions are real, whose to say what's happening here?
 
2014-01-09 11:50:57 PM  

Virtual Pariah: Question I have is if this was a real disease, wouldn't cessation of the original treatment have already shown her relapsing?

Seems that BMC may be on to something, if the treatment for the psychological issue is keeping the symptoms at bay.

Would not the amount of time have shown some changes if this was physical?


Yeah, but then the parents wouldn't have an excuse to keep the child on a weird diet.  I'm guessing this has something to do with them holding some kind of bizarre magical beliefs about nutrition that are not exactly supported by science.
 
2014-01-09 11:53:00 PM  
The obvious solution is to cut her in half.
 
2014-01-09 11:58:16 PM  
All of the court procedings are under a gag order. The media, having no solid information, is just speculating. What we know for sure is that there's a LOT more to this story.
 
2014-01-10 12:01:03 AM  
This is just bizarre to me. If this girl's symptoms are psychosomatic, wouldn't any tests show they were? I mean if she has an infection, blood samples would show signs of infection (WBCs), and whatnot. I mean we have so many diagnostic tools, and doctors have to sign off on them. If doctors do not think she needs said treatments -- then they're obligated not to undergo them, regardless of what the parents desire.

At the same time, I've never heard of these disorders, so I'm pretty ignorant to this particular situation.

It just seems bizarre that with all the diagnostic tests we run on other people that there would be doctors and nurses out there willing to disobey the hippocratic oath just because the parents say so. It more or less throws the entire medical education system out the window for the sake of parents being able to treat their children like property to do with as they please.
 
2014-01-10 12:05:51 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Parents: Our daughter has a weird disorder with nebulous symptoms necessitating multiple invasive surgeries, and our doctor agrees.

Boston Children's: Your daughter is the victim of medical child abuse, i.e. we think you're having all these procedures done on her because you're torturing her for your own sick needs.

And since both conditions are real, whose to say what's happening here?


Just because one party is wrong doesn't make the other party right.

Hitler fought Stalin.
 
2014-01-10 12:11:21 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Parents: Our daughter has a weird disorder with nebulous symptoms necessitating multiple invasive surgeries, and our doctor agrees.

Boston Children's: Your daughter is the victim of medical child abuse, i.e. we think you're having all these procedures done on her because you're torturing her for your own sick needs.

And since both conditions are real, whose to say what's happening here?


The parents.  Every time.

There should be due diligence in investigating the child's health and care by whatever organizations either party chooses; but if there is differing legitimate opinions. the decision should be with the parents.

The worst possible outcome is the state makes the wrong decision for the child, and that scenario should be avoided so strenuously that any margin for error should favor the parents as well.
 
2014-01-10 12:15:14 AM  

GBmanNC: Virtual Pariah: Question I have is if this was a real disease, wouldn't cessation of the original treatment have already shown her relapsing?

Seems that BMC may be on to something, if the treatment for the psychological issue is keeping the symptoms at bay.

Would not the amount of time have shown some changes if this was physical?

Treatment seems pretty limited http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_disease
The better question is if the psychological treatment isn't effective, would the dr.s at BMC change their diagnoses? I'm thinking the answer is no...

The great thing about a diagnoses of exclusion like somatoform disorder for a dr. is that its hard to prove your diagnoses is wrong, as proving a negative tends to be.


That's why somatoform disorders are diagnosed by exclusion, e.g. test results for real stuff turn up negative.
 
2014-01-10 12:23:29 AM  
Mitochondrial disorders cover a wide swathe of symptoms, and often have a notoriously "nebulous" definition.  Even children with negative muscle biopsies can be diagnosed as having a mitochondrial disorder.

Children with definite mitochondrial disorders often suffer from severe weakness, low blood sugar, seizures, invasive infections, developmental delay, temperature instability and a variety of other symptoms.

Because mitochondrial disorders don't alway have a definitive positive/negative test result upon which doctors and parents can rest the diagnosis, some children get suck in the "in between" area.

In some cases, parents want to believe their children have something wrong, and they hang on to a diagnosis of presumed "mitochondrial disorder," even though their child may be normal.  In these cases, no one can really prove or disprove that the child has a mitochondrial disorder.  Sometimes, these children are subject to needless medical procedures, including placement of permanent IV lines for overnight IV infusions of glucose, though not really needed.  In other cases, these measures are warranted.

In other cases, children truly have a disorder, and can become very sick, very quickly.

Don't know about this case to really put in an opinion, but wanted to shed some light onto mitochondrial disorders.
 
2014-01-10 12:29:22 AM  

Virtual Pariah: Question I have is if this was a real disease, wouldn't cessation of the original treatment have already shown her relapsing?

Seems that BMC may be on to something, if the treatment for the psychological issue is keeping the symptoms at bay.

Would not the amount of time have shown some changes if this was physical?


I think the last time around there was an article (but not the stupid naturopath one) that said that her symptoms worsened after interaction with her parents on their visits.


Weatherkiss: If this girl's symptoms are psychosomatic, wouldn't any tests show they were?


A lot of medical conditions have no tests that can objectively confirm them, the diagnosis is based on a cluster of symptoms.  That's why I always laugh when people complain about psychiatry being bullshiat guesswork, because "medicine" is frequently not a hell of a lot better.

This girl's symptoms are "weakness, headaches, and abdominal pain".  There is pretty much no objective test to confirm these symptoms exist.  Even muscle weakness can be deliberately faked (malingering, factitious disorder) or a subconscious affectation (somatoform disorder).  The fakers do usually slip up when they're distracted, though.

Usually the first treatment for people with these symptoms would be to give them an anti-psychotic or sub-clinical dose of antidepressant (Amitriptyline, usually).  Even when the pain is objectively "real" (i.e. one caused by a provably damaged nerve) these usually reduce it because mood affects our experience of pain.  But frequently these symptoms are the physical manifestation of an undiagnosed anxiety or depressive disorder.
 
2014-01-10 12:37:00 AM  

LoneWolf343: GBmanNC: Virtual Pariah: Question I have is if this was a real disease, wouldn't cessation of the original treatment have already shown her relapsing?

Seems that BMC may be on to something, if the treatment for the psychological issue is keeping the symptoms at bay.

Would not the amount of time have shown some changes if this was physical?

Treatment seems pretty limited http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_disease
The better question is if the psychological treatment isn't effective, would the dr.s at BMC change their diagnoses? I'm thinking the answer is no...

The great thing about a diagnoses of exclusion like somatoform disorder for a dr. is that its hard to prove your diagnoses is wrong, as proving a negative tends to be.

That's why somatoform disorders are diagnosed by exclusion, e.g. test results for real stuff turn up negative.


...Right, that is my critique, that diagnoses of exclusions exist at all.
There are far too many scenarios where test results come up negative, having a default diagnoses that automatically gets applied (especially one as damaging as somatoform disorder, good luck getting believed for any future medical issues) is bad for patients, lazy for doctors, and retards our growth of medical knowledge.
 
2014-01-10 12:37:15 AM  

Virtual Pariah: Question I have is if this was a real disease, wouldn't cessation of the original treatment have already shown her relapsing?

Seems that BMC may be on to something, if the treatment for the psychological issue is keeping the symptoms at bay.

Would not the amount of time have shown some changes if this was physical?



go a step further
The Pelletiers are allowed a single, one-hour visit a week with Justina and a 20-minute phone conversation once a week.

WHAT if that contact continues to cause the psychological problems?
HONEY, you are sick and DYING, THEY ARE KILLING YOU HERE!!!!

nightmare no matter what
 
2014-01-10 12:38:24 AM  
I have a child with special needs. Some of those needs overlap with those of children who have mitochondrial disease, so I spend a lot of time with mito parents. The procedures they described (except for the appendectomy, which is super common) are consistent with mito. It is also very common to have a clinical, but not genetic diagnosis of the condition because frankly, there are a lot of things that can go wrong with a human being that you just sort of lump together as one condition. It's not uncommon to have one doctor tell you something is wrong and another doctor telling you that nothing is wrong based on the exact same test results. All you can do as a parent is advocate for your child. It is very hard to find that balance between wanting answers and not wanting to look like you want more procedures to be done. I think most parents who have children with special needs are very aware of the scrutiny they are under, and for that reason it is not a good idea to go around looking for different doctors. The downside to that is, you might get stuck with a bad doctor that overlooks or downplays conditions they don't have experience with.

I have a deep resentment towards parents with munchausen by proxy. Not only are they child abusers, but they make it difficult, and at times impossible, for legitimately ill children to find sympathetic and unbiased medical care. The biggest thing I see with the case in reference, is that the girl is quite old, not only to be newly diagnosed with mitochondrial disease (most people I know have children who are seriously disabled as infants, and many of those children die as toddlers), but she is pretty old to be put into a mental ward for nearly a year if nothing was wrong with her. Laws have been changed so that people do not get committed against their will. I also happen to have legal custody of a teenage relative that lives in a psychiatric facility and they made it very clear to me that the patient has the right to leave at any time. Just because the parents lost custody does not mean the girl does not have the right to refuse treatment.

So I guess that leaves me back at square one. Is the child mentally ill?
 
2014-01-10 12:42:10 AM  

Frederick: Gyrfalcon: Parents: Our daughter has a weird disorder with nebulous symptoms necessitating multiple invasive surgeries, and our doctor agrees.

Boston Children's: Your daughter is the victim of medical child abuse, i.e. we think you're having all these procedures done on her because you're torturing her for your own sick needs.

And since both conditions are real, whose to say what's happening here?

The parents.  Every time.

There should be due diligence in investigating the child's health and care by whatever organizations either party chooses; but if there is differing legitimate opinions. the decision should be with the parents.

The worst possible outcome is the state makes the wrong decision for the child, and that scenario should be avoided so strenuously that any margin for error should favor the parents as well.


And would you say the same if the child had presented with multiple head traumas and healed bone fractures which the parents claimed was due to brittle bone disease but which the hospital felt was ongoing child abuse?

Just playing devil's advocate here--there is no right answer.
 
2014-01-10 12:43:26 AM  

IamPatSajak: So I guess that leaves me back at square one. Is the child mentally ill?


If they aren't now, they will be by the time this crisis is over with.
 
2014-01-10 12:43:41 AM  

Frederick: The worst possible outcome is the state makes the wrong decision for the child, and that scenario should be avoided so strenuously that any margin for error should favor the parents as well.


I guess we could jsut stop caring about children.
To be honest, let Darwin take care of this.

So you beat your child, break its bones. MEH
It is your child, you can do what you want.

WHO are we to judge?
God made you beat them? COOL
God said NO TO MEDICINE? COOL

Hell, we let parents brainwash their crotch spawn with religious-cults, why not this?
 
2014-01-10 12:46:09 AM  

namatad: Frederick: The worst possible outcome is the state makes the wrong decision for the child, and that scenario should be avoided so strenuously that any margin for error should favor the parents as well.

I guess we could jsut stop caring about children.
To be honest, let Darwin take care of this.

So you beat your child, break its bones. MEH
It is your child, you can do what you want.

WHO are we to judge?
God made you beat them? COOL
God said NO TO MEDICINE? COOL

Hell, we let parents brainwash their crotch spawn with religious-cults, why not this?


Hell, we let parents kill their children by praying them back to wellness when they have easily treatable diabetic conditions with modern medicine.
 
2014-01-10 12:50:40 AM  
This is what happens when you take House off the case before the last 10 minutes of the show.
 
2014-01-10 12:55:40 AM  

if_i_really_have_to: That's why I always laugh when people complain about psychiatry being bullshiat guesswork, because "medicine" is frequently not a hell of a lot better.


The difference is that medicine occasionally cures people.

So, it's got that going for it.
 
2014-01-10 01:14:48 AM  
Interesting that the same hospital pulled a similar stunt with a foreign national recently. I'd go with, either the staff is incompetent or the hospital is desperate for cash.
 
2014-01-10 01:19:13 AM  

Frederick: There should be due diligence in investigating the child's health and care by whatever organizations either party chooses; but if there is differing legitimate opinions. the decision should be with the parents.

The worst possible outcome is the state makes the wrong decision for the child, and that scenario should be avoided so strenuously that any margin for error should favor the parents as well.


And when the parents are killing the child for the attention they get from medical providers, and being painted as the brave mommy and daddy by the people around them?
 
2014-01-10 01:23:09 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Parents: Our daughter has a weird disorder with nebulous symptoms necessitating multiple invasive surgeries, and our doctor agrees.

Boston Children's: Your daughter is the victim of medical child abuse, i.e. we think you're having all these procedures done on her because you're torturing her for your own sick needs.

And since both conditions are real, whose to say what's happening here?


Fark if I know.  But did the parents have any plans to "treat" her in a way that would have messed her up worse than keeping her isolated in a psych ward for 9 months?  She was being treated by other doctors.  Doctors who I'm sure by now are well aware of the suspicions of the doctors in Boston and will bear them in mind when treating her in the future...  There are plenty of other ways this could have been resolved.
 
2014-01-10 01:29:56 AM  

Frederick: The parents.  Every time.

There should be due diligence in investigating the child's health and care by whatever organizations either party chooses; but if there is differing legitimate opinions. the decision should be with the parents.

The worst possible outcome is the state makes the wrong decision for the child, and that scenario should be avoided so strenuously that any margin for error should favor the parents as well.


I would agree with you, in 99 cases out of a hundred, but, you see, I had a friend growing up. His parents were religious extremists with opinions about vaccines being evil, 'alternative' medicine and homeopathy being superior to anything involving actual science, they were seriously into prayer-based cures and they insisted on several occasions that their right to choose their son's treatment trumped everything, including doctors' medical opinion.

Operative word here is had. I had a friend. His parents killed him before we were twelve years old.

Simply because two people have accomplished something rodents and insects do does not always make them right, sane or intelligent.
 
2014-01-10 01:34:51 AM  
Beyond the kid and the doctor/parent hoopla, it's that 'Bader 5' assignation that is freaking me out.

Personally I wonder if they could have come up with something more ominous sounding. I know you farkers can, but do you get my drift here?

"Sorry son, not only are you fricken nuts, but we're gonna have to send you to Bader 5."

/why not the 'happy home' or some shiz-nit?
 
2014-01-10 01:50:30 AM  
FTA:  Dr. Jurriaan Peters, a neurologist at Boston Children's, wrote that he was "concerned about the distribution of care across multiple providers in different facilities and across state lines, the number of invasive procedures Justina has been submitted to."

According to Peters in another report, Justina has had an exploratory laparotomy, an appendectomy, several colonoscopies and a cecostomy tube placement. The Pelletiers have denied that any of their daughter's symptoms are psychosomatic and have said physicians approved all medical procedures performed on Justina.


I'd just like to point out that Occam's razor here is the following:

On one hand, you have an entire medical facility conspiring to keep one bed occupied fraudulently: nurses, residents, fellows, house medical staff, counsel, and administrators.  Nurses, residents, and fellows do the vast majority of assessments, and if you doubt the sincerity of their interests in seeing patients get well... then I'm sorry for you.  No resident or fellow is going to see any career benefit from playing ball in this kind of game, because too many people see the patient for all of them to be bought off by nefarious adminstrators.

On the other hand, you have two parents who acknowledge shipped their daughter to a large institutions for individual tests regarding a single condition;  I don't know Connecticut all _that_ well, and if I'm wrong please correct me, but it seems incongruous that none of the prior institutions offered a pretty comprehensive set of these tests.

[Note: this analysis focuses on the actual capabilities to provide the procedures in question.  I haven't even addressed the fact that many commenters exhibit an inconsistent, if not openly self-contradictory, assessment of the motives of the healthcare systems involved.  Namely, a common view seems to be that healthcare facilities are profit-driven and selfish and cruel, insofar as the facility in question is Boston Children's Hospital (which is, from a revenue point of view, simply holding the patient). However, the same reasoning would predict that the parents and patient would not have been through a "concerning number" of alternative institutions in order to conduct the wide variety of invasive procedures related to the diagnosis; rather, the consistent assessment would predict that early on, one profit-driven institution would have recognized the possibilities and captured the revenue stream.]

/ not a doctor
// don't play one on TV
///
 
2014-01-10 02:03:40 AM  
I hate to interrupt all the conjecture with some fact, but mitochondrial disease is one of those things that is very hard to diagnose - and often only explored after all other known possibilities are excluded.  Some can be diagnosed by a mtDNA southern blot, some by nuclear DNA tests, some by metabolic lab results, some by MRI, some by muscle biopsy - and even then, tests can be inconclusive.

There is also massive variation in the symptomology and severity of mitochondrial disorders.  There are some mitochondrial diseases where the only noticeable symptom is eye droopiness (ptosis) or visual impairment due to optic nerve atrophy - and many with mitochondrial disease live a normal life span with minimal impairment.  On the other end of the spectrum, there are mitochondrial diseases that kill in infancy.  There are even some mitochondrial diseases (like Leigh's disease), where it varies drastically - from severe disability or death in infancy to perfectly normal until a nasty cold puts them on a ventilator and in a wheelchair - often for the rest of their lives.  There are even some that progress slowly for years and years - and then boom, dead or severely disabled in an instant.

Some of the problems with these massive variations, is that most doctors only hear about the most severe cases, so they see a kid with a little muscle wasting and fatigue, some speech issues, maybe vision problems - and never think mitochondrial disease.  The problem with this is that even in the most mild cases of mitochondrial disease, there is significant danger of decline from a particularly bad illness.  If you know ahead of time that your child with a more mild version of mitochondrial disease is at risk of a severe decline during illness, then you can take precautions to prevent that.  And then of course the problem is that if you are successful, the uninformed start to think it's not necessary.

Another problem with mitochondrial diseases are that the only treatment available to try and slow down progression of these diseases are supplements.  Some mitochondrial disease can cause massive deficiencies in certain supplements and often replacing them can mean the difference between a severely disabled child and a seemingly healthy child.  Of course these are the easy ones - where simple lab tests can identify the particular metabolic problem - these are a small subset of mitochondrial disorders.  There is science behind the use of supplements in treating mitochondrial disease - it's not about ground up rhino horn and ginseng - it's things like coenzyme Q10, carnitine, certain b vitamins - go look up the Electron Transport Chain, Krebb's cycle, ATP - and you'll see why trying to boost the body's ability to process certain things makes sense.

And it's not like they are shunning some more proven treatment - there is none.  These are supplements that the doctors who specialize in treating these disorders recommend - with the caveat that we have no idea if they will actually work.

Somatoform disorder is extraordinarily rare, but it is enticing to doctors because they can use it whenever they can't figure out what's wrong.  What used to be "We don't know enough about this yet to know what's going on but we'll keep trying", turns into "oh, it's all in their head!"

It Is disheartening to see how little knowledge has been gained outside of the specialists that treat these disorders over the last 20 years.


tldr:  the actions of the hospital in this case are criminal
 
2014-01-10 02:11:26 AM  

Gyrfalcon: And would you say the same if the child had presented with multiple head traumas and healed bone fractures which the parents claimed was due to brittle bone disease but which the hospital felt was ongoing child abuse?

Just playing devil's advocate here--there is no right answer.


Frederick: There should be due diligence in investigating the child's health and care by whatever organizations either party chooses; but if there is differing legitimate opinions. the decision should be with the parents.


As in the case with the parents in the article where their doctor had a medical diagnosis contradicting or even simply not supporting the antagonist party's (Boston Medical) opinion.  For all intents and purposes the two opinions are of equal value.

The parents decide.

/unless we want to set hierarchies on how or why one medical opinion is greater than another and that sounds bad for patients rights
 
2014-01-10 02:19:59 AM  

hardinparamedic: Frederick: There should be due diligence in investigating the child's health and care by whatever organizations either party chooses; but if there is differing legitimate opinions. the decision should be with the parents.

The worst possible outcome is the state makes the wrong decision for the child, and that scenario should be avoided so strenuously that any margin for error should favor the parents as well.

And when the parents are killing the child for the attention they get from medical providers, and being painted as the brave mommy and daddy by the people around them?


Medical providers are also the ones who have taken the girl away from her parents.  You kind of have to paint them both with the same brush.  If you trust medical providers with the authority to remove children from parents, wouldnt you also trust them with the diagnosis that brought the so-called "killing attention"?

This isnt an example of comparing holistic medicine with western medicine.  This is an example of professionals within the same field giving incompatible opinions.

The parents get to choose.
 
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