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(Chicago Trib)   Both a park district and public library rejected a $3,000 cash donation by a man because of his staunch atheism, but a food pantry gladly accepted the money, because they're not assholes   (chicagotribune.com ) divider line
    More: Followup, food pantry, Chicago Bears, Hemant Mehta, donations  
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6962 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Jan 2014 at 12:13 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



181 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-01-09 11:02:59 PM  
A library board trustee called Mehta's blog, the Friendly Atheist, a "hate group,"

Because not believing in your particular conception of a supreme being if an act of hate against that supreme being.
 
2014-01-09 11:08:42 PM  
Those comments are something:

The comments regarding this story are just the tip of the iceberg.

Google 'hateful atheists,' maybe they're overcompensating for their lack of faith. These atheists remind me of another radicalized, publicity seeking minority group...one wonders if there's a connection?
 
2014-01-09 11:50:16 PM  

JasonOfOrillia: Because not believing in your particular conception of a supreme being if an act of hate against that supreme being.


Yeah, here's the thing. And I share this with you coming from a "small town". I'm well aware that Niles Township has about a hundred thousand people according to 2010 census data, but in this area, that would qualify as the same thing. Modern "Evangelical" Christianity has fallen back on a tenet that was more at home in 1800s spiritual revival episodes than today:  These are people who, from a very early age in their Youth Groups and Sunday schools, are taught that non-believers and people who legitimately ascribe to other religions do so because they either don't "know" about their God, or they legitimately hate their God and their religion, and everything they stand for.

They areindoctrinated with the superiority of their religious doctrine and writings, and taught that anyone who questions them or believes differently is their enemy. Their motives are always alterior and in league with Satan.

This also serves as an example of what an "out" Atheist in the United States has to deal with. Personally, I knew I was an atheist at 14. Not because of any kind of "rebellion" or any other tripe that is traditionally taught, but because after studying the religious material I was constantly bombarded with, it made no sense. I continued to uphold a lie to my parents, my youth pastor, and my church group for four years, until I could voluntarily leave home and my church as an adult, because I knew the kind of persecution and bullying I would experience in a small southern town of 7,000 people. 

Even today I still get crap from the religious because I "believe different". Including being told I should be fired for being an atheist because I didn't actively participate in a prayer during a memorial ceremony earlier this year by someone I work with.

So yeah. To these idiots, it is a legitimate and willful act of hate against their God and the Christ himself that you do not believe in their religion and it alone.
 
2014-01-09 11:58:54 PM  
He next tried the Morton Grove Public Library, but experienced similar results. A library board trustee called Mehta's blog, the Friendly Atheist, a "hate group," and questioned the legality of accepting a donation originally intended for the park district.

Really? Let me go check out this website.

[reads blog]

Yeah, if that's your idea of a "hate group" then your ass is filled with your head.
 
2014-01-10 12:09:55 AM  
F*ck you face, I've got your motherf*cking nose.
 
2014-01-10 12:10:09 AM  
An agnostic offered them $3,000 as well. They took $1,500.
 
2014-01-10 12:19:18 AM  
It's weird that the park and library would even know about this guy's atheism. What, did they do a background check on him or some shiat? How would they even know?
 
2014-01-10 12:19:45 AM  
Hunger is a religion.
 
2014-01-10 12:21:11 AM  

macross87: You know what really grinds my gears?!!?


Poor clutch control?
 
2014-01-10 12:21:25 AM  

GreenAdder: An agnostic offered them $3,000 as well. They took $1,500.


This
 
2014-01-10 12:23:35 AM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: It's weird that the park and library would even know about this guy's atheism. What, did they do a background check on him or some shiat? How would they even know?


The parks response seems more to do with the original dispute and not the fact this guy is an atheist.

The second guy is a douche.

Better off giving to the food pantry anyways.
 
2014-01-10 12:23:59 AM  
Having spent time working for my municipal library, I know two things.
1: The board is usually not that smart
2: Never turn down free money.

Seriously,the people with the least idea of what they are doing are in charge of basically everything public. Libraries, schools, etc.
 
2014-01-10 12:24:21 AM  

hardinparamedic: Their motives are always alterior


Ulterior. I tell you this only because I honestly think you care, and will remember it.

/not a language nazi.jpg
 
2014-01-10 12:30:53 AM  
fark the library then. Glad the moneys going to people who actually need it.
 
2014-01-10 12:31:31 AM  
Christians... if you're not one of them, you're their enemy. They have a very long history proving that... as hard as they can.
 
2014-01-10 12:33:01 AM  

hardinparamedic: Even today I still get crap from the religious because I "believe different". Including being told I should be fired for being an atheist because I didn't actively participate in a prayer during a memorial ceremony earlier this year by someone I work with.

So yeah. To these idiots, it is a legitimate and willful act of hate against their God and the Christ himself that you do not believe in their religion and it alone.


So, how do you fail to "actively participate," assuming you weren't standing ostentatiously in the front of the room glaring at everyone while they were kneeling in prayer? And how did they know otherwise? This always mystifies me, because as a nondenominational agnostic, I occasionally get forced into Catholic church (for my nephews' confirmations, etc.) and I do not participate in their arcane rites; but I don't do it in an obvious way; I just sit quietly in the pew while they kneel, stand, pray, etc.

So unless you're aggressively mocking the preacher during services, how do these mooks know you're not "actively participating"? Are you supposed to fall down and begin speaking in tongues?
 
2014-01-10 12:37:33 AM  
But those extremist atheists just drink beer and talk about outer space. Shameful.
 
2014-01-10 12:40:02 AM  
FTFA: Mehta originally raised the money in late October following news that American Legion Post 134 pulled its support from the Morton Grove Park District in response to a park board commissioner's refusal to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance.

So basically this atheist guy raises this money and tries to donates it as a way to make some political point, and some of the recipients don't to be involved in that.  Not seeing a problem, per se.

(Now, when they start chucking back their own drama, I see a problem, but that comes later.)
 
2014-01-10 12:40:06 AM  
Well then....

I am one the board of my company's charitable giving committee. I have no idea what i would do if someone refused our funds because an atheist is on the board. This makes no sense?!?
 
2014-01-10 12:42:17 AM  

Caffienatedjedi: Having spent time working for my municipal library, I know two things.
1: The board is usually not that smart
2: Never turn down free money.

Seriously,the people with the least idea of what they are doing are in charge of basically everything public. Libraries, schools, etc.


clearly, cutng their salaries will bring in better talent!

(Not accusing you of that)
 
2014-01-10 12:47:43 AM  

links136: Caffienatedjedi: Having spent time working for my municipal library, I know two things.
1: The board is usually not that smart
2: Never turn down free money.

Seriously,the people with the least idea of what they are doing are in charge of basically everything public. Libraries, schools, etc.

clearly, cutng their salaries will bring in better talent!

(Not accusing you of that)


Ah god, I wish I was given control of money beyond buying donuts and shipping packages. I was more of the "Do anything phyisically demanding we tell you to, because you are the only male employee we have", guy. Still, overheard a lot of stuff, municipal employees were tight knit. Still giggle when I think about all the things the board was trying to do while a new library was being built, half the time the director had to explain to them why their idea was illegal.
 
2014-01-10 12:50:22 AM  

JohnnyC: Christians... if you're not one of them, you're their enemy. They have a very long history proving that... as hard as they can.


what would you know about it johnny? tell me why you think you know.

there is a big difference between not believing in something and bashing people that do believe.
this intolerance is why real atheists want to distance themselves with your typical fark atheist.
 
2014-01-10 12:51:27 AM  

Caffienatedjedi: Having spent time working for my municipal library, I know two things.
1: The board is usually not that smart
2: Never turn down free money.

Seriously,the people with the least idea of what they are doing are in charge of basically everything public. Libraries, schools, etc.


A local parents group is up in arms over the local library accepting rent from a cellular company for putting up a repeater. I learned first hand the stupidity of such boards. If there was only a building full of knowledge they could go to to learn something...
 
2014-01-10 12:53:11 AM  
anyone else see that picture and think militant gay middle eastern dude?

/not that there is anything wrong with that.
 
2014-01-10 12:53:58 AM  
colberteatingpopcorn.gif
 
2014-01-10 12:54:16 AM  
"Christians... if you're not one of them, you're their enemy. They have a very long history proving that... as hard as they can."

Your prejudice is an ugly thing. The use of labels, no matter which ones, just ends up causing hate and attacks.
 
2014-01-10 12:54:55 AM  

aerojockey: FTFA: Mehta originally raised the money in late October following news that American Legion Post 134 pulled its support from the Morton Grove Park District in response to a park board commissioner's refusal to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance.

So basically this atheist guy raises this money and tries to donates it as a way to make some political point, and some of the recipients don't to be involved in that.  Not seeing a problem, per se.

(Now, when they start chucking back their own drama, I see a problem, but that comes later.)


They will take Christian money but not Atheist money. Yes, it's a political point, but hey... it's money. The government only chose sides when it refused to take the Atheist money, which is why this is an issue. Why the money is donated should be outside what the government cares about, as long as strings aren't attached (i.e., you can only have this money to build a monument to cheese). There weren't any strings attached from Hemant, it was "Here, take this money, do whatever you want with it".
 
2014-01-10 01:00:14 AM  

JohnnyC: Christians(Nearly?) every powerful, conservative group or organization in the history of mankind... if you're not one of them, you're their enemy. They have a very long history proving that... as hard as they can.


FTFY.

/if you don't believe in somebody else's mythology/fantasy and it basically doesn't affect your life in any way, why waste the time and effort thinking on it in the first place?
 
2014-01-10 01:00:27 AM  

Popular Opinion: JohnnyC: Christians... if you're not one of them, you're their enemy. They have a very long history proving that... as hard as they can.

what would you know about it johnny? tell me why you think you know.

there is a big difference between not believing in something and bashing people that do believe.
this intolerance is why real atheists want to distance themselves with your typical fark atheist.


When did atheists vote to outlaw gay marriage? To try to sneak non-science into science classrooms? Use public money for solely religious proselytization and benefit?

Oh, right. That never happened. I'll bash all of those actions, because those actions are incompatible with democracy and a sane, pluralistic society. Believe whatever mumbo-jumbo you want on your own time. Don't try to force it on me or make me pay for it. You've just got your panties in a twist because you're finally being called on your bullsh*t. Being told you don't have the extra privilege you think you should isn't bashing or persecution, sparky.
 
2014-01-10 01:01:09 AM  

Gyrfalcon: So, how do you fail to "actively participate," assuming you weren't standing ostentatiously in the front of the room glaring at everyone while they were kneeling in prayer? And how did they know otherwise? This always mystifies me, because as a nondenominational agnostic, I occasionally get forced into Catholic church (for my nephews' confirmations, etc.) and I do not participate in their arcane rites; but I don't do it in an obvious way; I just sit quietly in the pew while they kneel, stand, pray, etc.

So unless you're aggressively mocking the preacher during services, how do these mooks know you're not "actively participating"? Are you supposed to fall down and begin speaking in tongues?


Apparently, not closing your eyes and just remaining silent is a horrible disrespect to the dead.
 
2014-01-10 01:01:42 AM  

CowardlyLion: JohnnyC: Christians(Nearly?) every powerful, conservative group or organization in the history of mankind... if you're not one of them, you're their enemy. They have a very long history proving that... as hard as they can.

FTFY.

/if you don't believe in somebody else's mythology/fantasy and it basically doesn't affect your life in any way, why waste the time and effort thinking on it in the first place?


I wish I could ignore it. Unfortunately, Christians and "conservatives" in this country try to force it on the rest of us, getting us into this predicament.
 
2014-01-10 01:09:14 AM  

hardinparamedic: Even today I still get crap from the religious because I "believe different". Including being told I should be fired for being an atheist because I didn't actively participate in a prayer during a memorial ceremony earlier this year by someone I work with.


Wow.

It might be time to move to a different part of the county, IMHO. I live in a semi-rural part of Oregon and although we do have Tea-Party types and Rednecks around here, genuine Bible-Thumpers seem to be few in number.  I've never seen religious bigotry at my workplace; most of my co-workers seem to be Good-aligned ( in D&D terms )

/ IIRC, Oregon is one of the most "unChurched" States in the USA
 
2014-01-10 01:10:21 AM  

Pitabred: Popular Opinion: JohnnyC: Christians... if you're not one of them, you're their enemy. They have a very long history proving that... as hard as they can.

what would you know about it johnny? tell me why you think you know.

there is a big difference between not believing in something and bashing people that do believe.
this intolerance is why real atheists want to distance themselves with your typical fark atheist.

When did atheists vote to outlaw gay marriage? To try to sneak non-science into science classrooms? Use public money for solely religious proselytization and benefit?

Oh, right. That never happened. I'll bash all of those actions, because those actions are incompatible with democracy and a sane, pluralistic society. Believe whatever mumbo-jumbo you want on your own time. Don't try to force it on me or make me pay for it. You've just got your panties in a twist because you're finally being called on your bullsh*t. Being told you don't have the extra privilege you think you should isn't bashing or persecution, sparky.


more people i know that have never been to any church that hate gays than people that claim to be christian.
the new testament teaches "judge not, lest you be judged", therefore, anyone that bashes gays is not christian.
 
2014-01-10 01:15:34 AM  

Popular Opinion: more people i know that have never been to any church that hate gays than people that claim to be christian.


odd Ive never met these "more people"
 
2014-01-10 01:16:28 AM  

Popular Opinion: Pitabred: Popular Opinion: JohnnyC: Christians... if you're not one of them, you're their enemy. They have a very long history proving that... as hard as they can.

what would you know about it johnny? tell me why you think you know.

there is a big difference between not believing in something and bashing people that do believe.
this intolerance is why real atheists want to distance themselves with your typical fark atheist.

When did atheists vote to outlaw gay marriage? To try to sneak non-science into science classrooms? Use public money for solely religious proselytization and benefit?

Oh, right. That never happened. I'll bash all of those actions, because those actions are incompatible with democracy and a sane, pluralistic society. Believe whatever mumbo-jumbo you want on your own time. Don't try to force it on me or make me pay for it. You've just got your panties in a twist because you're finally being called on your bullsh*t. Being told you don't have the extra privilege you think you should isn't bashing or persecution, sparky.

more people i know that have never been to any church that hate gays than people that claim to be christian.
the new testament teaches "judge not, lest you be judged", therefore, anyone that bashes gays is not christian.


Oh, since you claim on the Internet that you don't know any Christians that hate gay people, especially in contravention to very public voting records and polling, I guess there's no problem. Thanks!
 
2014-01-10 01:16:57 AM  

Popular Opinion: Pitabred: Popular Opinion: JohnnyC: Christians... if you're not one of them, you're their enemy. They have a very long history proving that... as hard as they can.

what would you know about it johnny? tell me why you think you know.

there is a big difference between not believing in something and bashing people that do believe.
this intolerance is why real atheists want to distance themselves with your typical fark atheist.

When did atheists vote to outlaw gay marriage? To try to sneak non-science into science classrooms? Use public money for solely religious proselytization and benefit?

Oh, right. That never happened. I'll bash all of those actions, because those actions are incompatible with democracy and a sane, pluralistic society. Believe whatever mumbo-jumbo you want on your own time. Don't try to force it on me or make me pay for it. You've just got your panties in a twist because you're finally being called on your bullsh*t. Being told you don't have the extra privilege you think you should isn't bashing or persecution, sparky.

more people i know that have never been to any church that hate gays than people that claim to be christian.
the new testament teaches "judge not, lest you be judged", therefore, anyone that bashes gays is not christian.


I don't think it matters if they are 'really christians'. Thats the name they act under, therefore that's what they get called out under.
 
2014-01-10 01:18:28 AM  
The people that are in charge of the library and the parks department probably have future political ambitions, or their jobs can be in jeopardy from politicians if they do the wrong thing politically. The food pantry guy, I doubt either applies to him. So it stands to reason why they would not only research were a large donation came from, but also reject some, as unfortunate as it is.
 
2014-01-10 01:20:42 AM  

JohnnyC: Christians... if you're not one of them, you're their enemy. They have a very long history proving that... as hard as they can.


genocide was their friend (adn if we are not careful to limit their control it will be again)
 
2014-01-10 01:21:59 AM  

Pitabred: Popular Opinion: Pitabred: Popular Opinion: JohnnyC: Christians... if you're not one of them, you're their enemy. They have a very long history proving that... as hard as they can.

what would you know about it johnny? tell me why you think you know.

there is a big difference between not believing in something and bashing people that do believe.
this intolerance is why real atheists want to distance themselves with your typical fark atheist.

When did atheists vote to outlaw gay marriage? To try to sneak non-science into science classrooms? Use public money for solely religious proselytization and benefit?

Oh, right. That never happened. I'll bash all of those actions, because those actions are incompatible with democracy and a sane, pluralistic society. Believe whatever mumbo-jumbo you want on your own time. Don't try to force it on me or make me pay for it. You've just got your panties in a twist because you're finally being called on your bullsh*t. Being told you don't have the extra privilege you think you should isn't bashing or persecution, sparky.

more people i know that have never been to any church that hate gays than people that claim to be christian.
the new testament teaches "judge not, lest you be judged", therefore, anyone that bashes gays is not christian.

Oh, since you claim on the Internet that you don't know any Christians that hate gay people, especially in contravention to very public voting records and polling, I guess there's no problem. Thanks!


your lack of comprehension is startling to say the least.
highlight the portion of my post that says i don't know of any christians that hate gays,
please,
you can't you moron.
you are the reason, perhaps single-handedly, that the internet sucks.

if you hate anyone, you are not christian,

the sad thing is, you can be a bitter, twisted, hate filled pillow biter, and that is freedom of speech
but if you are a straight person, anything you say that is critical of anyone is hate speech.
 
2014-01-10 01:22:23 AM  

ongbok: So it stands to reason why they would not only research were a large donation came from, but also reject some, as unfortunate as it is.


Which reason does this stand to ?
 
2014-01-10 01:24:13 AM  

Popular Opinion: pillow biter


you sound bitter, twisted, and full of hate
but that is freedom of speach
 
2014-01-10 01:25:41 AM  

Kurmudgeon: "Christians... if you're not one of them, you're their enemy. They have a very long history proving that... as hard as they can."

Your prejudice is an ugly thing. The use of labels, no matter which ones, just ends up causing hate and attacks.


The truth is a prejudice? Since when?
 
2014-01-10 01:27:42 AM  

JohnnyC: Christians... if you're not one of them, you're their enemy. They have a very long history proving that... as hard as they can.


Excluding Mr. Rogers of course.

If Jesus ever did come back, we just missed Him in Fred.
 
2014-01-10 01:27:44 AM  

Popular Opinion: JohnnyC: Christians... if you're not one of them, you're their enemy. They have a very long history proving that... as hard as they can.

what would you know about it johnny? tell me why you think you know.

there is a big difference between not believing in something and bashing people that do believe.
this intolerance is why real atheists want to distance themselves with your typical fark atheist.


First, look at history. Look at what Christians have done to people throughout history. Such as how they treated the native americans who didn't convert here in the States. Heck, look at what they've even done to each other (one sect vs another sect). I've personally witnessed Christians treating non-Christians horribly throughout my entire life. I've been physically attacked because I didn't say the "under god" portion of the pledge of allegiance and a christian happened to notice. My in-laws refused to come to my wife and I's wedding because we didn't have a Christian wedding in a church. My mother in law wouldn't even really speak to me for the first 5 years I was married to my wife. I saw a fellow coworker get hassled perpetually because the Christians who worked there found out he was an atheist until eventually they sabotaged his work and got him fired because he wasn't willing to convert. The only reason I didn't get the same treatment was because I avoided any discussion about religion like the plague and I still caught some flack from them because I wasn't very forthcoming about my religious (or lack thereof) views on things. I've had friends become Christians and then spend all their time trying to convince me that I'm going to burn in a pit of fire and be tortured for eternity unless I join their club because they knew I was an atheist... and the list goes on.

I'm tolerant of others. I don't give a shiat what religion you believe or don't believe. But the moment a religious group starts trying to affect my life, starts treating me or other people like shiat because they're not a member of that religious group, they EARN their reputation. And this is an ongoing thing... throughout history. Not just my story... but a million other people's stories, and I'm absolutely certain that a good portion of those stories are far worse that what I've had to put up with.

Now guess how many Christians I've physically attacked because they believe in god? Guess how many I tried to get fired because they go to church on sunday? Guess how many people I tried threatened with torture and burning forever... none. And what is with this, "real atheist" and "fark atheist" bullshiat? If someone doesn't believe in any gods/supernatural beings/etc, that person is an atheist. Just because I have REASONS I do not like the way a particular religion's members conduct themselves in general does not make me a 'fark atheist'. I'm still just an atheist.

If you happen to be an atheist and you just prefer to ignore the things Christians do to other people here in the States, you're welcome to do so... but don't expect everyone to just lay down and take it because you do.
 
2014-01-10 01:27:57 AM  

Slartibartfaster: Popular Opinion: pillow biter

you sound bitter, twisted, and full of hate
but that is freedom of speach


thank you for the latitude to use amusing (if only to me) descriptors.
i say that only with the most respectful intentions. it brings me joy.
 
2014-01-10 01:28:08 AM  

Popular Opinion: Pitabred: Popular Opinion: Pitabred: Popular Opinion: JohnnyC: Christians... if you're not one of them, you're their enemy. They have a very long history proving that... as hard as they can.

what would you know about it johnny? tell me why you think you know.

there is a big difference between not believing in something and bashing people that do believe.
this intolerance is why real atheists want to distance themselves with your typical fark atheist.

When did atheists vote to outlaw gay marriage? To try to sneak non-science into science classrooms? Use public money for solely religious proselytization and benefit?

Oh, right. That never happened. I'll bash all of those actions, because those actions are incompatible with democracy and a sane, pluralistic society. Believe whatever mumbo-jumbo you want on your own time. Don't try to force it on me or make me pay for it. You've just got your panties in a twist because you're finally being called on your bullsh*t. Being told you don't have the extra privilege you think you should isn't bashing or persecution, sparky.

more people i know that have never been to any church that hate gays than people that claim to be christian.
the new testament teaches "judge not, lest you be judged", therefore, anyone that bashes gays is not christian.

Oh, since you claim on the Internet that you don't know any Christians that hate gay people, especially in contravention to very public voting records and polling, I guess there's no problem. Thanks!

your lack of comprehension is startling to say the least.
highlight the portion of my post that says i don't know of any christians that hate gays,
please,
you can't you moron.
you are the reason, perhaps single-handedly, that the internet sucks.

if you hate anyone, you are not christian,

the sad thing is, you can be a bitter, twisted, hate filled pillow biter, and that is freedom of speech
but if you are a straight person, anything you say that is critical of anyone is hate speech.


There aren't any True Scotsmen out there, either.
 
2014-01-10 01:29:40 AM  

Popular Opinion: if you hate anyone, you are not christian,


So, there are no Christians. Nice to know we've got that settled.
 
2014-01-10 01:29:51 AM  
A library board trustee ... questioned the legality of accepting a donation originally intended for the park district.

That's actually a decent question. If he raised the money by telling people it would be donated to the park district, can he just go and donate it anywhere he wants?
 
2014-01-10 01:29:58 AM  
so long as the donation does not have some assnine condition set on it, you shut up and take it.

There seems to be no conditions on this guy's donation.

Its a damn sad thing people in charge of Orgaizations that depend on charitable donations let politics and religion get in the way.
 
2014-01-10 01:30:25 AM  

Slartibartfaster: ongbok: So it stands to reason why they would not only research were a large donation came from, but also reject some, as unfortunate as it is.

Which reason does this stand to ?


Common sense. If you are politically motivated or your job can be effected by politicians, you are going to make damn sure that you fall on the right side of the politicians and their base. That includes that if you are in charge of a department in government that accepts donations, and you are in a heavy religious district, you are going to make damn sure that large donations don't come from people that may upset the religious base. It is sad, but that is the way things are.
 
2014-01-10 01:31:03 AM  

Paris1127: Those comments are something:

The comments regarding this story are just the tip of the iceberg.

Google 'hateful atheists,' maybe they're overcompensating for their lack of faith. These atheists remind me of another radicalized, publicity seeking minority group...one wonders if there's a connection?


Comments on comments on comments? And now I'm commenting on that? This is too meta for me.
 
2014-01-10 01:31:14 AM  

Slartibartfaster: Popular Opinion: more people i know that have never been to any church that hate gays than people that claim to be christian.

odd Ive never met these "more people"


here's a hint, they are the fats. Lots of 'em these days.
 
2014-01-10 01:31:17 AM  
I don't ant to sound all unenlightened, and sh*t, as we vaunt into a new era of knowing all there is to know, but what - in 25 words or less - is "staunch atheism"?  Is that like not only do you not collect stamps but you pee in mailboxes?
 
2014-01-10 01:31:52 AM  

ignacio: A library board trustee ... questioned the legality of accepting a donation originally intended for the park district.

That's actually a decent question. If he raised the money by telling people it would be donated to the park district, can he just go and donate it anywhere he wants?


It ain't their problems, it's his. He answers to his donors, not the charity.
 
2014-01-10 01:33:12 AM  

CowardlyLion: JohnnyC: Christians(Nearly?) every powerful, conservative group or organization in the history of mankind... if you're not one of them, you're their enemy. They have a very long history proving that... as hard as they can.

FTFY.

/if you don't believe in somebody else's mythology/fantasy and it basically doesn't affect your life in any way, why waste the time and effort thinking on it in the first place?


Does California Prop 8 ring any bells?
 
2014-01-10 01:35:30 AM  

r1niceboy: But those extremist atheists just drink beer and talk about outer space. Shameful.


We also have guilt-free sex with whomever we want, not entangled with or encumbered by what some mythical father-figure thinks is or isn't proper, or fear of punishment for enjoying ourselves thus.

So we've got that going for us, which is nice.
 
2014-01-10 01:36:27 AM  

foxyshadis: ignacio: A library board trustee ... questioned the legality of accepting a donation originally intended for the park district.

That's actually a decent question. If he raised the money by telling people it would be donated to the park district, can he just go and donate it anywhere he wants?

It ain't their problems, it's his. He answers to his donors, not the charity.


Exactly. Hemant asked on his site if anyone had problems with him changing the recipient to some other worthy cause in the area when the donation was initially rejected, and there was a wide approval of doing so. He's earned a lot of trust from his community, and rightfully so.
 
2014-01-10 01:38:27 AM  

ChadM89: We also have guilt-free sex with whomever we want, not entangled with or encumbered by what some mythical father-figure thinks is or isn't proper, or fear of punishment for enjoying ourselves thus.

So we've got that going for us, which is nice.


So, sort of like the GOP with money and 9 year old boys?
 
2014-01-10 01:39:31 AM  

JohnnyC: I've had friends become Christians and then spend all their time trying to convince me that I'm going to burn in a pit of fire and be tortured for eternity unless I join their club because they knew I was an atheist...


There's something very weird about Born-Agains of all stripes. Not just Christian, that's just the most common here in America, and not just religion. People get religious about their new car, their choice in programming languages (even brace placement), their music tastes, and their doomsday fears (global warming? second coming? police state?); but turn them into a born-again for something else and suddenly they're rabidly trying to convert everyone else to their new-found salvation. It's more than a little obvious that it's an easy way to look down on everyone else, too.

Revivalists, the original hipsters?

It's hilarious when it only lasts a few weeks, though.
 
2014-01-10 01:39:35 AM  

Popular Opinion: your lack of comprehension is startling to say the least.
highlight the portion of my post that says i don't know of any christians that hate gays,
please,
you can't you moron.
you are the reason, perhaps single-handedly, that the internet sucks.

if you hate anyone, you are not christian,

the sad thing is, you can be a bitter, twisted, hate filled pillow biter, and that is freedom of speech
but if you are a straight person, anything you say that is critical of anyone is hate speech.


You know, you're not really helping your standing as someone who's in any sort of a good position to be speaking in defense of Christians. But don't let that stop you. I've got plenty of popcorn.
 
2014-01-10 01:40:42 AM  

JohnnyC: Popular Opinion: JohnnyC: Christians... if you're not one of them, you're their enemy. They have a very long history proving that... as hard as they can.

what would you know about it johnny? tell me why you think you know.

there is a big difference between not believing in something and bashing people that do believe.
this intolerance is why real atheists want to distance themselves with your typical fark atheist.

First, look at history. Look at what Christians have done to people throughout history. Such as how they treated the native americans who didn't convert here in the States. Heck, look at what they've even done to each other (one sect vs another sect). I've personally witnessed Christians treating non-Christians horribly throughout my entire life. I've been physically attacked because I didn't say the "under god" portion of the pledge of allegiance and a christian happened to notice. My in-laws refused to come to my wife and I's wedding because we didn't have a Christian wedding in a church. My mother in law wouldn't even really speak to me for the first 5 years I was married to my wife. I saw a fellow coworker get hassled perpetually because the Christians who worked there found out he was an atheist until eventually they sabotaged his work and got him fired because he wasn't willing to convert. The only reason I didn't get the same treatment was because I avoided any discussion about religion like the plague and I still caught some flack from them because I wasn't very forthcoming about my religious (or lack thereof) views on things. I've had friends become Christians and then spend all their time trying to convince me that I'm going to burn in a pit of fire and be tortured for eternity unless I join their club because they knew I was an atheist... and the list goes on.

I'm tolerant of others. I don't give a shiat what religion you believe or don't believe. But the moment a religious group starts trying to affect my life, starts treating me or other p ...


hey, at least you have an opinion and basis for it, but as for history, it is just that.

the church lady next door didn't lead the evil crusades (which was all about power and money, and nothing to do with the teaching in the new testament (what i think is supposed to be christianity).

be happy knowing these hypocrites will burn in hell, if there is one. ;o)

when i say "fark atheist", i don't mean anyone on fark who doesn't believe in any god.
i mean the type that attack anyone that has faith in something..
 
2014-01-10 01:41:44 AM  

foxyshadis: It's hilarious when it only lasts a few weeks, though.


It gets scary when they start talking about how faith healing can regrow limbs. I had to take more than a step back when that bomb dropped.
 
2014-01-10 01:43:15 AM  

foxyshadis: ignacio: A library board trustee ... questioned the legality of accepting a donation originally intended for the park district.

That's actually a decent question. If he raised the money by telling people it would be donated to the park district, can he just go and donate it anywhere he wants?

It ain't their problems, it's his. He answers to his donors, not the charity.


Charities exist wholly upon their reputations. Donors can be very finicky.

It's *always* the charity's problem.
 
2014-01-10 01:44:23 AM  

Ed Grubermann: Popular Opinion: if you hate anyone, you are not christian,

So, there are no Christians. Nice to know we've got that settled.


i think there have been a few. i don't qualify, obviously.
 
2014-01-10 01:44:25 AM  

Forbidden Doughnut: hardinparamedic: Even today I still get crap from the religious because I "believe different". Including being told I should be fired for being an atheist because I didn't actively participate in a prayer during a memorial ceremony earlier this year by someone I work with.

Wow.

It might be time to move to a different part of the county, IMHO. I live in a semi-rural part of Oregon and although we do have Tea-Party types and Rednecks around here, genuine Bible-Thumpers seem to be few in number.  I've never seen religious bigotry at my workplace; most of my co-workers seem to be Good-aligned ( in D&D terms )

/ IIRC, Oregon is one of the most "unChurched" States in the USA


That's because it's so heavily Mormon, and West Coast Mormons are usually quite mellow about things. (Even Mountain Mormons are mellowing out as the old ones die off.) I've literally only known one hateful old biatch who thought reading Anne McCaffrey would deliver me to Satan etc etc who was a Mormon. That stuff just isn't taught in Mormon upbringing (anymore?).
 
2014-01-10 01:45:44 AM  

Popular Opinion: JohnnyC: Popular Opinion: JohnnyC: <snip>

hey, at least you have an opinion and basis for it, but as for history, it is just that.

the church lady next door didn't lead the evil crusades (which was all about power and money, and nothing to do with the teaching in the new testament (what i think is supposed to be christianity).

be happy knowing these hypocrites will burn in hell, if there is one. ;o)

when i say "fark atheist", i don't mean anyone on fark who doesn't believe in any god.
i mean the type that attack anyone that has faith in something..


No, the church lady next door was just lied to by her priest about creationism and science, told that atheists are devil worshipers, that gays are abominations, that Republicans are all Christians and that Obama is a Muslim, and took all that "information" to the voting booth.
 
2014-01-10 01:47:30 AM  

Popular Opinion: Ed Grubermann: Popular Opinion: if you hate anyone, you are not christian,

So, there are no Christians. Nice to know we've got that settled.

i think there have been a few. i don't qualify, obviously.


Jesus, if he existed, might have been a Christian. But then again, he wailed on some money changer ass with some definite hate, so I'm pretty sure even he's out of the running...
 
2014-01-10 01:48:31 AM  

a particular individual: hardinparamedic: Their motives are always alterior

Ulterior. I tell you this only because I honestly think you care, and will remember it.

/not a language nazi.jpg


You sure through me a curb. I thought you were a Nazi.
 
2014-01-10 01:51:08 AM  

Pitabred: No, the church lady next door was just lied to by her priest about creationism and science, told that atheists are devil worshipers, that gays are abominations, that Republicans are all Christians and that Obama is a Muslim, and took all that "information" to the voting booth.


Then she killed all of our puppies. With her jackboot.
 
2014-01-10 01:51:28 AM  

lohphat: Excluding Mr. Rogers of course.
If Jesus ever did come back, we just missed Him in Fred.


The navy SEAL sniper dude with the tattoos?
 
2014-01-10 01:51:32 AM  

foxyshadis: JohnnyC: I've had friends become Christians and then spend all their time trying to convince me that I'm going to burn in a pit of fire and be tortured for eternity unless I join their club because they knew I was an atheist...

There's something very weird about Born-Agains of all stripes. Not just Christian, that's just the most common here in America, and not just religion. People get religious about their new car, their choice in programming languages (even brace placement), their music tastes, and their doomsday fears (global warming? second coming? police state?); but turn them into a born-again for something else and suddenly they're rabidly trying to convert everyone else to their new-found salvation. It's more than a little obvious that it's an easy way to look down on everyone else, too.

Revivalists, the original hipsters?

It's hilarious when it only lasts a few weeks, though.


It's bit just religion. You raise a fascinating and under-explored bit of psychology. Read up on theories of race and sexual orientation development, for instance. The newly-converted have a predictable and militant reaction. For most, it eventuality matures into a more open-minded state.
 
2014-01-10 01:53:01 AM  

Pitabred: Popular Opinion: Ed Grubermann: Popular Opinion: if you hate anyone, you are not christian,

So, there are no Christians. Nice to know we've got that settled.

i think there have been a few. i don't qualify, obviously.

Jesus, if he existed, might have been a Christian. But then again, he wailed on some money changer ass with some definite hate, so I'm pretty sure even he's out of the running...


frustration and embarrassment is not hate. jmo
he was embarrassed that faith had been exploited by greed.
and frustrated that this was generally accepted.
i can't say i would have acted differently, especially if i was the son of the big guy,
 
2014-01-10 01:53:48 AM  

brimed03: foxyshadis: JohnnyC: I've had friends become Christians and then spend all their time trying to convince me that I'm going to burn in a pit of fire and be tortured for eternity unless I join their club because they knew I was an atheist...

There's something very weird about Born-Agains of all stripes. Not just Christian, that's just the most common here in America, and not just religion. People get religious about their new car, their choice in programming languages (even brace placement), their music tastes, and their doomsday fears (global warming? second coming? police state?); but turn them into a born-again for something else and suddenly they're rabidly trying to convert everyone else to their new-found salvation. It's more than a little obvious that it's an easy way to look down on everyone else, too.

Revivalists, the original hipsters?

It's hilarious when it only lasts a few weeks, though.

It's bit just religion. You raise a fascinating and under-explored bit of psychology. Read up on theories of race and sexual orientation development, for instance. The newly-converted have a predictable and militant reaction. For most, it eventuality matures into a more open-minded state.


*not. It's not just religion.

Dammit. I even Previewed for once.
 
2014-01-10 01:54:56 AM  

bunner: I don't ant to sound all unenlightened, and sh*t, as we vaunt into a new era of knowing all there is to know, but what - in 25 words or less - is "staunch atheism"?  Is that like not only do you not collect stamps but you pee in mailboxes?


Thats the one where you dont believe in god so hard that it allows you to magically see into voting booths and know how people voted
 
2014-01-10 01:56:06 AM  

brimed03: foxyshadis: ignacio: A library board trustee ... questioned the legality of accepting a donation originally intended for the park district.

That's actually a decent question. If he raised the money by telling people it would be donated to the park district, can he just go and donate it anywhere he wants?

It ain't their problems, it's his. He answers to his donors, not the charity.

Charities exist wholly upon their reputations. Donors can be very finicky.

It's *always* the charity's problem.


I just answered the question of the legality. Warding off shiatstorm that may or may not ensue, sure, I could see that, but they could at least be upfront about it.
 
2014-01-10 01:59:04 AM  

mikaloyd: Thats the one where you dont believe in god so hard that it allows you to magically see into voting booths and know how people voted



076dd0a50e0c1255009e-bd4b8aabaca29897bc751dfaf75b290c.r40.cf1.rackcdn.com
                                   Shazam!
 
2014-01-10 02:05:18 AM  

Popular Opinion: Pitabred: Popular Opinion: Ed Grubermann: Popular Opinion: if you hate anyone, you are not christian,

So, there are no Christians. Nice to know we've got that settled.

i think there have been a few. i don't qualify, obviously.

Jesus, if he existed, might have been a Christian. But then again, he wailed on some money changer ass with some definite hate, so I'm pretty sure even he's out of the running...

frustration and embarrassment is not hate. jmo
he was embarrassed that faith had been exploited by greed.
and frustrated that this was generally accepted.
i can't say i would have acted differently, especially if i was the son of the big guy,


gawd, i wish god was real just to see what  kind of whoop ass JC would put on jerry falwell and jesse jackson.
 
2014-01-10 02:21:37 AM  
How did they know about his stance and blog to begin with?

Did he walk into these places and say "Hi I'm an atheist blogger,  I'd like to donate $3000."

It should've never entered the conversation at all.  This guy is an asshat.
 
2014-01-10 02:22:01 AM  
Christians: god does not need money, this is your issue, not his. If i understand the concept, all he wants is your soul.
 
2014-01-10 02:23:24 AM  

Popular Opinion: gawd, i wish god was real just to see what  kind of whoop ass JC would put on jerry falwell and jesse jackson.


Probably something like the "Angel of Death" scene from Raiders of the Lost Ark....
 
2014-01-10 02:25:48 AM  

Boo_Guy: How did they know about his stance and blog to begin with?

Did he walk into these places and say "Hi I'm an atheist blogger,  I'd like to donate $3000."

It should've never entered the conversation at all.  This guy is an asshat.


Question
Assumption
Assumptive and abusive conclusion

God bless you
 
2014-01-10 02:29:01 AM  

Slartibartfaster: Boo_Guy: How did they know about his stance and blog to begin with?

Did he walk into these places and say "Hi I'm an atheist blogger,  I'd like to donate $3000."

It should've never entered the conversation at all.  This guy is an asshat.

Question
Assumption
Assumptive and abusive conclusion

God bless you


Well if the article had mentioned it then I wouldn't have had to ask.

/atheist
//"God bless you" right back at you
 
2014-01-10 02:33:29 AM  
I'm sorry you're starving and I would provide you some sustenance but it originated from people that don't believe in sky fairies so I can't give it to you and I'm sorry you'll go hungry.
I COULD not be a retard and allow you to sustain you and your family but I choose not to because religion and all that.
SUCK IT
 
2014-01-10 02:33:31 AM  

Boo_Guy: How did they know about his stance and blog to begin with?

Did he walk into these places and say "Hi I'm an atheist blogger,  I'd like to donate $3000."


Why on earth would any place not want to be known as a great partner and cherished giftee of internet atheists?
 
2014-01-10 02:37:07 AM  

hardinparamedic: Gyrfalcon: So, how do you fail to "actively participate," assuming you weren't standing ostentatiously in the front of the room glaring at everyone while they were kneeling in prayer? And how did they know otherwise? This always mystifies me, because as a nondenominational agnostic, I occasionally get forced into Catholic church (for my nephews' confirmations, etc.) and I do not participate in their arcane rites; but I don't do it in an obvious way; I just sit quietly in the pew while they kneel, stand, pray, etc.

So unless you're aggressively mocking the preacher during services, how do these mooks know you're not "actively participating"? Are you supposed to fall down and begin speaking in tongues?

Apparently, not closing your eyes and just remaining silent is a horrible disrespect to the dead.


Does that mean you're going to be haunted by the dead person you dissed? He's the only one who should know you were looking at him the whole time.
 
2014-01-10 02:48:22 AM  
I'm an atheist that volunteers at my local food bank every Thursday so I'm getting a kick...

Granted I'm not giving them money but I am giving them my time. Please do justify how I am doing wrong and that you should take that away from those that I've have helped in some way because that's what this fiasco is doing; not allowing me to help people because of my non-beliefs.

Assholes.
 
2014-01-10 02:50:12 AM  

redheededstepchild: Christians Politicians: god does not need money, this is your issue, not his. If i understand the concept, all he wants is your soul vote.


This is what happens when religion and politics mix.
 
2014-01-10 02:51:49 AM  

JohnnyC: Popular Opinion: JohnnyC: Christians... if you're not one of them, you're their enemy. They have a very long history proving that... as hard as they can.

what would you know about it johnny? tell me why you think you know.

there is a big difference between not believing in something and bashing people that do believe.
this intolerance is why real atheists want to distance themselves with your typical fark atheist.

First, look at history. Look at what Christians have done to people throughout history. Such as how they treated the native americans who didn't convert here in the States. Heck, look at what they've even done to each other (one sect vs another sect). I've personally witnessed Christians treating non-Christians horribly throughout my entire life. I've been physically attacked because I didn't say the "under god" portion of the pledge of allegiance and a christian happened to notice. My in-laws refused to come to my wife and I's wedding because we didn't have a Christian wedding in a church. My mother in law wouldn't even really speak to me for the first 5 years I was married to my wife. I saw a fellow coworker get hassled perpetually because the Christians who worked there found out he was an atheist until eventually they sabotaged his work and got him fired because he wasn't willing to convert. The only reason I didn't get the same treatment was because I avoided any discussion about religion like the plague and I still caught some flack from them because I wasn't very forthcoming about my religious (or lack thereof) views on things. I've had friends become Christians and then spend all their time trying to convince me that I'm going to burn in a pit of fire and be tortured for eternity unless I join their club because they knew I was an atheist... and the list goes on.

I'm tolerant of others. I don't give a shiat what religion you believe or don't believe. But the moment a religious group starts trying to affect my life, starts treating me or other people like shiat because they're not a member of that religious group, they EARN their reputation. And this is an ongoing thing... throughout history. Not just my story... but a million other people's stories, and I'm absolutely certain that a good portion of those stories are far worse that what I've had to put up with.

Now guess how many Christians I've physically attacked because they believe in god? Guess how many I tried to get fired because they go to church on sunday? Guess how many people I tried threatened with torture and burning forever... none. And what is with this, "real atheist" and "fark atheist" bullshiat? If someone doesn't believe in any gods/supernatural beings/etc, that person is an atheist. Just because I have REASONS I do not like the way a particular religion's members conduct themselves in general does not make me a 'fark atheist'. I'm still just an atheist.

If you happen to be an atheist and you just prefer to ignore the things Christians do to other people here in the States, you're welcome to do so... but don't expect everyone to just lay down and take it because you do.


agreed.
 
2014-01-10 02:54:40 AM  

C18H27NO3: I'm an atheist that volunteers at my local food bank every Thursday so I'm getting a kick...

Granted I'm not giving them money but I am giving them my time. Please do justify how I am doing wrong and that you should take that away from those that I've have helped in some way because that's what this fiasco is doing; not allowing me to help people because of my non-beliefs.

Assholes.


Easy7 there hero the food bank took the money. Food banks and geniuses like yourself are still AOK together, Now run along and attack a park or bite a library. Parks and Libraries bad, food banks good!
 
2014-01-10 03:03:30 AM  

mikaloyd: Easy7 there hero the food bank took the money. Food banks and geniuses like yourself are still AOK together, Now run along and attack a park or bite a library. Parks and Libraries bad, food banks good!


You're missing my point entirely, obviously.
 
2014-01-10 03:12:03 AM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: It's weird that the park and library would even know about this guy's atheism. What, did they do a background check on him or some shiat? How would they even know?


Have you ever known an atheist who didn't tell anyone and everyone, at every single chance that they are an atheist?   It's like people who can't pass an opportunity to say "I'm italian"
 
2014-01-10 03:13:25 AM  
If someone could provide a ballpark number of sandwiches they've prayed into existence then I'll lend them an ear.
 
2014-01-10 03:18:28 AM  

RidersOfLohan: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: It's weird that the park and library would even know about this guy's atheism. What, did they do a background check on him or some shiat? How would they even know?

Have you ever known an atheist who didn't tell anyone and everyone, at every single chance that they are an atheist?   It's like people who can't pass an opportunity to say "I'm italian"


I don't,  but then up in Canada most people don't need to know your religious and political affiliations before having a conversation with someone.

/Even the vegans usually keep it to themselves
 
2014-01-10 03:38:13 AM  

C18H27NO3: If someone could provide a ballpark number of sandwiches they've prayed into existence then I'll lend them an ear.


Or the number of students who have passed finals due to prayer alone.
 
2014-01-10 03:56:02 AM  
Sorry, library is closed because we couldn't afford to have it open today.
Sorry, park is closed because we couldn't afford to have it open today.

Well yes we could have had the funds to make it available for you today but we chose not to. Rather than do good for you we went the irrational route of not accepting monies from people that had good intentions and could have made it happen but instead denied them from contributing to your enjoyment.
You'll understand. You always do. You always will. You'll teach your kids to do the same.
 
2014-01-10 04:54:16 AM  

RidersOfLohan: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: It's weird that the park and library would even know about this guy's atheism. What, did they do a background check on him or some shiat? How would they even know?

Have you ever known an atheist who didn't tell anyone and everyone, at every single chance that they are an atheist?   It's like people who can't pass an opportunity to say "I'm italian"


Guy belongs to something called "The Friendly Atheist" some atheist club, I assume - he was donating on their behalf, as best I can understand the wretchedly written article. Possibly said it on the check, maybe?
Ockham's Razor, y'know.
 
2014-01-10 04:58:02 AM  
Or it's a blog, or a hate group, or something. Terrible article. I swear to God I read stuff on the Internets every day that my 8th grade composition teacher would have flunked me for.
 
2014-01-10 06:06:27 AM  

r1niceboy: But those extremist atheists just drink beer and talk about outer space. Shameful.


mindfuldigressions.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-01-10 06:11:06 AM  

foxyshadis: JohnnyC: I've had friends become Christians and then spend all their time trying to convince me that I'm going to burn in a pit of fire and be tortured for eternity unless I join their club because they knew I was an atheist...

There's something very weird about Born-Agains of all stripes. Not just Christian, that's just the most common here in America, and not just religion. People get religious about their new car, their choice in programming languages (even brace placement), their music tastes, and their doomsday fears (global warming? second coming? police state?); but turn them into a born-again for something else and suddenly they're rabidly trying to convert everyone else to their new-found salvation. It's more than a little obvious that it's an easy way to look down on everyone else, too.

Revivalists, the original hipsters?

It's hilarious when it only lasts a few weeks, though.


I agree with the born agains get bent in the head bit. I will take it one step farther at that level, that new work out, Crossfit, anyone I know that is in it becomes incapable of talking about anything else and wants YOU to experience it as well.

Its nutty.

/ fat and godless.
 
2014-01-10 06:12:52 AM  

RidersOfLohan: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: It's weird that the park and library would even know about this guy's atheism. What, did they do a background check on him or some shiat? How would they even know?

Have you ever known an atheist who didn't tell anyone and everyone, at every single chance that they are an atheist?   It's like people who can't pass an opportunity to say "I'm italian"


Yes, just because you hang out with annoying a-holes, doesn't mean everybody is an annoying a-hole.
/Same with Italians.
 
2014-01-10 06:20:18 AM  
A hate group? Really?

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-01-10 06:26:36 AM  

jso2897: Guy belongs to something called "The Friendly Atheist" some atheist club, I assume - he was donating on their behalf, as best I can understand the wretchedly written article. Possiblysaid it on the check, maybe?

IsOckham'sOccam's Razor a concept , y'know. you know?

jso2897:
Or it's a blog, or a hate group, or something. This is a terrible article. I swear to God that I read stuff on the Internets every day that my 8th grade composition teacher would have flunked me for. which my 8th grade composition teacher would have flunked me.
 
2014-01-10 06:39:13 AM  

r1niceboy: But those extremist atheists just drink beer and talk about outer space. Shameful.


Guilty. But to be fair it's craft beer and deep space.
 
2014-01-10 06:52:33 AM  
In the late 21st century religious belief will be classified as a neurological disorder. I just wish I was born 100 years later.
 
2014-01-10 07:01:34 AM  
I don't see how the park group views rejecting the donation as avoiding a first amendment issues, as they said...  it seems like if anything rejecting it would cause one.  They already painted the original dispute AND the donation that this money was meant to replace as 'speech', so why isn't this donation also speech?
 
2014-01-10 07:09:05 AM  

FatherChaos: r1niceboy: But those extremist atheists just drink beer and talk about outer space. Shameful.

[mindfuldigressions.files.wordpress.com image 325x325]


True, there are no militant atheists.  Endlessly self important, sneering, dismissive and just waiting to tell you how self assuring their sense of superiority is, but I don't see them blowing up kids at bus stops.
 
2014-01-10 07:35:15 AM  

bunner: True, there are no militant atheists.  Endlessly self important, sneering, dismissive and just waiting to tell you how self assuring their sense of superiority is, but I don't see them blowing up kids at bus stops.


I probably ought to educate you on that matter, but I sense that the knowledge would be wasted on someone as close minded as you.
 /Goes off to a bus stop to blow up kids, anyway.
 
2014-01-10 07:38:41 AM  

AgentPothead: In the late 21st century religious belief will be classified as a neurological disorder. I just wish I was born 100 years later.


"Religious belief" is the result of our evolution as a social animal, and the development of our parital and temporal lobes.

Until humans evolve into "something else", we're not going to get rid of religion. And attempts to do so are inherently more destructive to a society than that religion was ever itsself. (See USSR, Peri-War and WWII Germany, Ottoman Empire, Crusades, China, Cambodia)
 
2014-01-10 07:54:59 AM  

hardinparamedic: AgentPothead: In the late 21st century religious belief will be classified as a neurological disorder. I just wish I was born 100 years later.

"Religious belief" is the result of our evolution as a social animal, and the development of our parital and temporal lobes.

Until humans evolve into "something else", we're not going to get rid of religion. And attempts to do so are inherently more destructive to a society than that religion was ever itsself. (See USSR, Peri-War and WWII Germany, Ottoman Empire, Crusades, China, Cambodia)


Not if we lace the communion wine with progesteron.
 
2014-01-10 08:26:03 AM  

Public Savant: I probably ought to educate you on that matter, but I sense that the knowledge would be wasted on someone as close minded as you.


Yeah, that.  Thanks for backing me up.  :  )
 
2014-01-10 08:26:07 AM  
They rejected it because HE is an asshole.

And this is the guy who calls himself friendly. The unfriendly ones must be a sight to behold.
 
2014-01-10 08:27:43 AM  
As the library board or the parks board can tell you, they even vet the $100 bill they use to snort coke off the stomach of a hooker at the board meeting. If it ain't christian, they don't do it.  Mysteriously left out of the article.
 
2014-01-10 08:40:37 AM  
i41.tinypic.com
 
2014-01-10 08:47:23 AM  

Popular Opinion: Slartibartfaster: Popular Opinion: pillow biter

you sound bitter, twisted, and full of hate
but that is freedom of speach

thank you for the latitude to use amusing (if only to me) descriptors.
i say that only with the most respectful intentions. it brings me joy.


images.starpulse.com

Which ones are the pillow biters again?
The BUTT-PIRATES!

/I love the sign language lady signing "butt-pirates" in that scene...

RidersOfLohan: Have you ever known an atheist who didn't tell anyone and everyone, at every single chance that they are an atheist?


Well, how could you possibly know that? I mean, if they don't mention that they're atheists, you'd never know, right? So, basically everyone you've ever met who hasn't explicitly mentioned that they're religious could have been one of these quiet atheists you're seeking, and you just never noticed...
 
2014-01-10 09:13:59 AM  

Forbidden Doughnut: hardinparamedic: Even today I still get crap from the religious because I "believe different". Including being told I should be fired for being an atheist because I didn't actively participate in a prayer during a memorial ceremony earlier this year by someone I work with.

Wow.

It might be time to move to a different part of the county, IMHO. I live in a semi-rural part of Oregon and although we do have Tea-Party types and Rednecks around here, genuine Bible-Thumpers seem to be few in number.  I've never seen religious bigotry at my workplace; most of my co-workers seem to be Good-aligned ( in D&D terms )

/ IIRC, Oregon is one of the most "unChurched" States in the USA


There was an article written a few years ago about this very subject. It compared religious fervor and violent crimes. Oregon, Portland in particular, with all the sex industry clubs, medical marijuana and political liberals had the lowest violent crime rate and the fewest fundamentalist religions.
I'll see if I can find it.
 
2014-01-10 09:20:36 AM  

Boo_Guy: How did they know about his stance and blog to begin with?

Did he walk into these places and say "Hi I'm an atheist blogger,  I'd like to donate $3000."

It should've never entered the conversation at all.  This guy is an asshat.


It appears that the vast majority of donors like to be credited for it. I would not be surprised if this one said something like "Please list this as a donation from The Friendly Athiest Blog".

I agree there's some asshattery involved for anyone who does that, but charities are usually *delighted* to take money with such a simple condition and consider listing donors an important tool in soliciting further donors. Unless they think crediting the donor will offend others, which is sadly likely in this case.
 
2014-01-10 09:22:35 AM  

hardinparamedic: "Religious belief" is the result of our evolution as a social animal, and the development of our parital and temporal lobes.


Hahahah no. Religious belief is because for a large part of humanities existence, they would kill anybody who didn't agree with their religions. Only in the past 200 years or so has it been able to have a serious discussion about religion without persecution, and even then in specific pockets of humanity.
 
2014-01-10 09:35:30 AM  
If any of you atheist farkers are having trouble giving away money, let me know. Our volunteer fire department is raising funds for a new truck, and I will gladly take your Godless cash. EIP.
 
2014-01-10 09:36:50 AM  

AgentPothead: Hahahah no. Religious belief is because for a large part of humanities existence, they would kill anybody who didn't agree with their religions. Only in the past 200 years or so has it been able to have a serious discussion about religion without persecution, and even then in specific pockets of humanity.


Yeah. I think I'll listen to actual scientists on this one.

Chach: They rejected it because HE is an asshole.

And this is the guy who calls himself friendly. The unfriendly ones must be a sight to behold.


Citation needed.
 
2014-01-10 09:44:08 AM  

hardinparamedic: AgentPothead: Hahahah no. Religious belief is because for a large part of humanities existence, they would kill anybody who didn't agree with their religions. Only in the past 200 years or so has it been able to have a serious discussion about religion without persecution, and even then in specific pockets of humanity.

Yeah. I think I'll listen to actual scientists on this one.

Did you even read what you linked?
However, there is disagreement on the exact mechanisms that drove the evolution of the religious mind. There are two schools of thought. One is that religion itself evolved due to natural selection and is an adaptation, in which case religion conferred some sort of evolutionary advantage. Alternatively, religious beliefs and behaviors may have emerged as by-products of other adaptive traits without initially being selected for because of their own benefits.

The exact mechanisms that drove religious belief were very simple. Grok says he is chosen by earth god to rule. You disagree with Grok? Grok smash your skull and eat the delicious brain stem. It's not much different than how you hairless apes act now. Well at least you stopped cannibalizing each other and the neanderthals.
 
2014-01-10 09:52:20 AM  

RobSeace: RidersOfLohan: Have you ever known an atheist who didn't tell anyone and everyone, at every single chance that they are an atheist?

Well, how could you possibly know that? I mean, if they don't mention that they're atheists, you'd never know, right? So, basically everyone you've ever met who hasn't explicitly mentioned that they're religious could have been one of these quiet atheists you're seeking, and you just never noticed...


You have to admit, it's clever. Anyone who says "that can't be true, I'm an atheist." has just validated the claim.
 
2014-01-10 09:53:01 AM  

AgentPothead: The exact mechanisms that drove religious belief were very simple. Grok says he is chosen by earth god to rule. You disagree with Grok? Grok smash your skull and eat the delicious brain stem. It's not much different than how you hairless apes act now. Well at least you stopped cannibalizing each other and the neanderthals.


/facepalm

So the structure and function of the brain, and it's evolution had nothing to do with religious belief? This is what you want to go with?

Especially since preliminary studies have shown higher sensitivity to, and production of dopamine in the temporal lobes of those who identify as religious? Or how "religious experiences" are evoked by hypotension/shock, certain synthetic cannabanoids, psyclobin and peyote?
 
2014-01-10 10:02:28 AM  

hardinparamedic: AgentPothead: The exact mechanisms that drove religious belief were very simple. Grok says he is chosen by earth god to rule. You disagree with Grok? Grok smash your skull and eat the delicious brain stem. It's not much different than how you hairless apes act now. Well at least you stopped cannibalizing each other and the neanderthals.

/facepalm

So the structure and function of the brain, and it's evolution had nothing to do with religious belief? This is what you want to go with?

Especially since preliminary studies have shown higher sensitivity to, and production of dopamine in the temporal lobes of those who identify as religious? Or how "religious experiences" are evoked by hypotension/shock, certain synthetic cannabanoids, psyclobin and peyote?


Of course the structure of the brain has a ton do do with religious belief. I'm saying that the reason there are more religious people than not, is that a long time ago before you could even be truly considered human, the religious ones ate the non religious ones. More people with broken brains reproducing than non broken brains. In about 52 years religious people will be found out to have chemical imbalances that are easily fixed. It will be the high point of human civilization. Then you'll all die to a phone that wasn't properly disinfected. Which will be the high point for the planet earth.
 
2014-01-10 10:10:06 AM  

Ed Grubermann: Popular Opinion: if you hate anyone, you are not christian,

So, there are no Christians. Nice to know we've got that settled.


i don't hate anyone, however i do hate stupidity

so you got me there

Checkmate Theists!!1!

:D
 
2014-01-10 10:36:31 AM  

Pitabred: Popular Opinion: Pitabred: Popular Opinion: JohnnyC: Christians... if you're not one of them, you're their enemy. They have a very long history proving that... as hard as they can.

what would you know about it johnny? tell me why you think you know.

there is a big difference between not believing in something and bashing people that do believe.
this intolerance is why real atheists want to distance themselves with your typical fark atheist.

When did atheists vote to outlaw gay marriage? To try to sneak non-science into science classrooms? Use public money for solely religious proselytization and benefit?

Oh, right. That never happened. I'll bash all of those actions, because those actions are incompatible with democracy and a sane, pluralistic society. Believe whatever mumbo-jumbo you want on your own time. Don't try to force it on me or make me pay for it. You've just got your panties in a twist because you're finally being called on your bullsh*t. Being told you don't have the extra privilege you think you should isn't bashing or persecution, sparky.

more people i know that have never been to any church that hate gays than people that claim to be christian.
the new testament teaches "judge not, lest you be judged", therefore, anyone that bashes gays is not christian.

Oh, since you claim on the Internet that you don't know any Christians that hate gay people, especially in contravention to very public voting records and polling, I guess there's no problem. Thanks!


Just because someone disapproves of something you like (ie:Homosexuality), it does not mean they hate homosexuals. But that isn't a reason to get your panties in a knot, is it? Homosexuals have been using this fuzzy logic for years to induce a guilt trip on liberals. It is much like saying "If you disagree with Sharpton/Jackson/Obama then it is because you are racist" or, "if you disapprove of abortion you have declared a 'war on women'".

Words have meanings and it is good to know what those meanings are.
 
2014-01-10 11:02:23 AM  
JasonOfOrillia [TotalFark]
2014-01-09 11:02:59 PM


A library board trustee called Mehta's blog, the Friendly Atheist, a "hate group,"

Because not believing in your particular conception of a supreme being if an act of hate against that supreme being.
So you disagree with the obama administration ordering the military to label christianity a hate group.

Or do you just hold your current opinion when it suits you?
 
2014-01-10 11:05:44 AM  
CowardlyLion

/if you don't believe in somebody else's mythology/fantasy and it basically doesn't affect your life in any way, why waste the time and effort thinking on it in the first place?
Good question, yet FARK went full derp mode supporting the closing of a faith based food kitchen just a few short weeks ago. But it is fun watching Fark hypocrates flip-flop to the other side today.
 
2014-01-10 11:22:41 AM  
Probably because people at a food pantry have learned not to poop where they eat...
 
2014-01-10 11:40:42 AM  

Pitabred: if you hate anyone, you are not christian,

the sad thing is, you can be a bitter, twisted, hate filled pillow biter, and that is freedom of speech
but if you are a straight person, anything you say that is critical of anyone is hate speech.

There aren't any True Scotsmen out there, either.


exchangedownloads.smarttech.com
 
2014-01-10 11:42:50 AM  

OnlyM3: CowardlyLion

/if you don't believe in somebody else's mythology/fantasy and it basically doesn't affect your life in any way, why waste the time and effort thinking on it in the first place? Good question, yet FARK went full derp mode supporting the closing of a faith based food kitchen just a few short weeks ago. But it is fun watching Fark hypocrates flip-flop to the other side today.


You mean the kitchen that received public subsidies while also mandating that religious propaganda go with all meals they gave out? They totes have a right to operate, just not with the assistance of tax dollars.
 
2014-01-10 12:11:01 PM  

CowardlyLion: JohnnyC: Christians(Nearly?) every powerful, conservative group or organization in the history of mankind... if you're not one of them, you're their enemy. They have a very long history proving that... as hard as they can.

FTFY.

/if you don't believe in somebody else's mythology/fantasy and it basically doesn't affect your life in any way, why waste the time and effort thinking on it in the first place?


I agree with you in principle; however, it's kind of hard not to think about it when the news bombards us every day with stories about religious people trying to impose their particular beliefs on everyone else, often to the detriment of others, and even society as a whole.

I've never had any issues with people hassling me personally about my atheism (although I don't generally mention it unless somebody asks), and I'm always respectful of other people's views, at least to their faces. (I reserve the right to privately mock those who openly trumpet their faith but feel perfectly free to lie, cheat, steal, etc., because that kind of hypocrisy pisses me off.)  On the other hand, I've had people ask me, apparently seriously, what keeps me from killing people, stealing, etc. if I don't believe in god. Which makes it hard not to wonder whether the only thing stopping them from going on a murder spree is that god said not to, because that's actually pretty farking terrifying.

The fact that any organization would be afraid to accept a donation from an atheist because they think religious people might withdraw their support in response is a perfect example of how ridiculous things have gotten in this country. Because they're right, it's entirely possible that could happen, and that's so blindingly stupid that it makes me clutch my head like a stunned monkey.
 
2014-01-10 12:12:21 PM  

Popular Opinion: if you hate anyone, you are not christian...


Christians believe their views are given to them and sanctioned by a loving God, and therefore cannot be hateful. Christ told them to love each other, but they, like the rest of us, still really want to hate people; unbelievers, homosexuals, whatever. What to do?

Well, some of them will take Christ at his word and genuinely try to love their neighbours as themselves. Of course, confronting and overcoming your own hatred is difficult, and not for everybody; the rest must redefine hatred so that they can hate people and still be Christians.

They came up with the specious "hate the sin, love the sinner" canard, which cleverly relieves them of the burden of self-examination, and allows them to lovingly condemn gays or unbelievers or Papists to hell for all time, in Christ's mercy.

Religion is at its most horrifying when it deliberately twists hatred into love.
 
2014-01-10 12:26:17 PM  

hardinparamedic: /facepalm

So the structure and function of the brain, and it's evolution had nothing to do with religious belief? This is what you want to go with?

Especially since preliminary studies have shown higher sensitivity to, and production of dopamine in the temporal lobes of those who identify as religious? Or how "religious experiences" are evoked by hypotension/shock, certain synthetic cannabanoids, psyclobin and peyote?


Religion is because people can't handle the world. Religion gives very simple, pleasant, and easy to digest answers to all of life's difficult questions. "Where did we come from? Why are we here? Why do this bizarre, seemingly random things happen?" And the single biggest one of them all, "What happens to use when we die?"

People are troubled by questions like that. Not having the answer is painful to them. And the very idea that their existence, reason for being, and happenings of the world is 100% chance bothers them. It makes them feel small, disposable, and helpless. And that big one. They idea that one simply stops existing when they die is enough to destroy a person from the inside.

So they turn to religion. Now all of those painful questions and worries in life have easy answers. And after this life is over with they get to be happy, forever!

Why are their brains flooded with dopamine? Because they're happy as a pig in shiat because they have nary a care in the world because they no longer have to worry about all of life's difficult questions and happenings.

It gives them an easy out to feeling happy by escaping reality to live in another. Religion makes them feel special. It makes them feel like they have a purpose. It takes the scary out of life. It answers the questions about what anything happens. They no longer have the think for themselves. They no longer have to worry. They no longer have to fear.

Religion is a crutch for those who are too weak to function otherwise.

No, this isn't a troll. It's not a flattering thing to say about anything, but it's the truth. I understand that some people simply can't cope and need this crutch in life. I feel bad for them. Although I don't condone it; I understand.

This reminds me of talking with someone. He was trying to chose between 2 reasons why something bad was happening. He couldn't figure out which it was. I asked him why he didn't entertain this particular third idea, which was the most likely explanation. He response was, "Because that would be too depressing."

Look at damn near every single religion. They all do that thing where they answer life's difficult questions and tell one how to live.
"What is that hot ball of burning in the sky?"
"A dung beetle is pushing a ball of fire across they sky"
"Why are there seasons?"
"Some biatch in control of nature ate 6/12 seeds and now has to spend half of the year in hell. When she's gone, shiat gets cold."
"Where did we come from?"
"Some big dude spent a week creating existence and created some smaller dude in his own image. But afterwards was unable to do it again so he took piece of this creation as fodder to create another creation. He did not give these creations the knowledge to make intelligent decisions or recognize danger. He then created something that is entirely forbidden for these creations to interact with and placed it within their reach. And for some reason also felt the need to create a talking animal whose greatest pleasure is trying to fark over these creations by convincing these creatures who lack intelligence to partake of this forbidden thing which their creator placed right in front of them. He set these creations up for failure and then blamed them when they failed. Shiat got worse from there."
 
2014-01-10 12:47:38 PM  

TotesCrayCray: Religion is a crutch for those who are too weak to function otherwise.


that's why we have SCIENCE!!!1!

FOR SCIENCE!

/science provides all the answers we need
 
2014-01-10 02:06:29 PM  

Lee451: Pitabred: Popular Opinion: <snip>

Oh, since you claim on the Internet that you don't know any Christians that hate gay people, especially in contravention to very public voting records and polling, I guess there's no problem. Thanks!

Just because someone disapproves of something you like (ie:Homosexuality), it does not mean they hate homosexuals. But that isn't a reason to get your panties in a knot, is it? Homosexuals have been using this fuzzy logic for years to induce a guilt trip on liberals. It is much like saying "If you disagree with Sharpton/Jackson/Obama then it is because you are racist" or, "if you disapprove of abortion you have declared a 'war on women'".

Words have meanings and it is good to know what those meanings are


So, if I understand your logic correctly, you would assert that someone that votes for slavery is not a racist and doesn't hate black people?

Feel free to disapprove of homosexuality. It's an ignorant stance, but that's your right. When you start trying to make other people do things you don't like, that don't have any effect on you? That's when it gets into homophobia.

Liberals aren't guilted into this stuff. We simply think other people should be treated as people. I know, I know, it's a really hard concept for "conservatives", that seem to believe that if we don't all believe in the same sky daddy and wear the same style of jackboots that the country is going down the drain, but hear me out... sometimes people are different. And that's ok. Trying to force everyone to be like you is a precursor to and tactic of pretty much every "evil empire" in history.
 
2014-01-10 02:17:27 PM  

HindiDiscoMonster: I drunk what: TotesCrayCray: Religion is a crutch for those who are too weak to function otherwise.

that's why we have SCIENCE!!!1!

FOR SCIENCE!

/science provides all the answers we need

and just think... that means that Christian Scientists have TWO crutches... thats like one more than one.


nice try mouthbreather, but science is not a crutch, it isn't for storytellers like yourself, you should just leave it up to us that own logic and reason *adjusts fedora*

let me show you how this stuff works:

TotesCrayCray: "Where did we come from?


evolutiondidit

Why are we here?

to do science!

Why do this bizarre, seemingly random things happen?

because you don't understand science and believe in invisible things :D, you're so cute, i'd show you the math but your unevolved brain couldn't handle it, besides santa claus isn't real

What happens to use when we die?

we become fertilizer, which is all a "person" was to begin with, pewp

/do use understand??

Why are their brains flooded with dopamine?

because religious people are teh stewpid, lelz, oh and FOR SCIENCE!

QFT. QED
 
2014-01-10 02:21:17 PM  
I drunk what:


Is today strawman day on Fark or something?
 
2014-01-10 02:22:36 PM  

Lee451: Words have meanings and it is good to know what those meanings are.


LELZ out loud

s2.quickmeme.com

why do you hate gays? is it because your a homophobe or that you are just homophobic? and racist...
 
2014-01-10 02:29:48 PM  

Popular Opinion: real atheists


is that sorta like real "christians"?  or real scotsmen?

grumpfuff: Is today strawman day on Fark or something?


nice strawman you got there pal

Pitabred: So, if I understand your logic correctly


Problem? , Lee415..  Problem?

//...problem?
 
2014-01-10 02:49:32 PM  

I drunk what: grumpfuff: Is today strawman day on Fark or something?

nice strawman you got there pal


"I know you are but what am I"? Seriously? That's your defense?
 
2014-01-10 02:56:10 PM  

grumpfuff: I drunk what: grumpfuff: Is today strawman day on Fark or something?

nice strawman you got there pal

"I know you are but what am I"? Seriously? That's your defense?


1. it's kind of hard to respond to a post that only has my id in it and not the post that you referring to... (miner detail lelz)
2. your obviously trying to misrepresent what I said as some sort of charakichure of all enlightened atheists beliefs, ergo a poorly built strawman, ipso facto to support your defense for criticizing me, visa vi you're strawman sucks and you should feel ashamed... QED.
3.??
4. Profit.
 
2014-01-10 03:00:43 PM  

I drunk what: 1. it's kind of hard to respond to a post that only has my id in it and not the post that you referring to... (miner detail lelz)


Here's a secret. If you click on the name, it takes you to the post I was referring to. I meant the whole thing.

I drunk what: 2. your obviously trying to misrepresent what I said as some sort of charakichure of all enlightened atheists beliefs, ergo a poorly built strawman, ipso facto to support your defense for criticizing me, visa vi you're strawman sucks and you should feel ashamed... QED.


You're really not very good at this, are you? Usually, when you troll, you want to make is as inconspicuous as possible.
 
2014-01-10 03:02:49 PM  

grumpfuff: Is EVERYday all logical fallacies in alphabetical order confirming that Idiocracy is not a comedy but a documentary day on Fark or something?


yep

welcometofark.jpg
 
2014-01-10 03:04:04 PM  

grumpfuff: when you troll


poe's trooper law, your move pal
 
2014-01-10 03:06:04 PM  

I drunk what: grumpfuff: when you troll

poe's trooper law, your move pal


You bore me. You're boring. I'm bored.
 
2014-01-10 03:13:20 PM  

grumpfuff: I drunk what: grumpfuff: when you troll

poe's trooper law, your move pal

You bore me. You're boring. I'm bored.


so then I am a real atheistTM?

glad we got that settled
 
2014-01-10 03:17:01 PM  

grumpfuff: You bore me. You're boring. I'm bored.


IDW used to be much more fun back when he used to argue his true beliefs, but now he generally just does this fake atheist act instead... It's sad really...
 
2014-01-10 03:18:30 PM  

I drunk what: grumpfuff: I drunk what: grumpfuff: when you troll

poe's trooper law, your move pal

You bore me. You're boring. I'm bored.

so then I am a real atheistTM?

glad we got that settled


grumpfuff: You bore me. You're boring. I'm bored.

 
2014-01-10 03:28:49 PM  

RobSeace: grumpfuff: You bore me. You're boring. I'm bored.

IDW used to be much more fun back when he used to argue his true beliefs, but now he generally just does this fake atheist act instead... It's sad really...


we were just killing time until you summoned the courage and/or ability to convince us to be an atheist

whenever you're ready lad, please proceed...

we will wait patiently here

or if you prefer we can wait to see if grump is capable of progress...?

//also bored
 
2014-01-10 03:39:48 PM  

I drunk what: RobSeace: grumpfuff: You bore me. You're boring. I'm bored.

IDW used to be much more fun back when he used to argue his true beliefs, but now he generally just does this fake atheist act instead... It's sad really...

we were just killing time until you summoned the courage and/or ability to convince us to be an atheist

whenever you're ready lad, please proceed...

we will wait patiently here

or if you prefer we can wait to see if grump is capable of progress...?

//also bored



grumpfuff: You bore me. You're boring. I'm bored.

 
2014-01-10 03:49:26 PM  

I drunk what: whenever you're ready lad, please proceed...


With what? I don't even know what there is to argue about with this story... Atheist wants to give money to a park to counter some group that pulled support; park refuses to take it for unclear reasons; he tries to give it to a library instead; they refuse to take it because they claim atheists are a "hate group" now apparently; so, he finally gives it to a food pantry instead, who seems happy to take it, but still seems wary about losing support from others as a backlash of some sort... The groups that refused to take the money were pretty stupid, IMHO, but whatever, they don't need to take money from anyone if they don't want to... In the end, I'd say the money ended up doing more good than it would at either of the places that refused it, anyway... So, happy ending! What is there to argue about?
 
2014-01-10 03:51:37 PM  

RobSeace: It's sad really


sad because it's True...?

I drunk what: or if you prefer we can wait to see if grump is capable of progress...?


grumpfuff: You bore me. You're boring. I'm bored.


perhaps another year, then eh?  I believe we have our answer, thanks

(meanwhile)

well Rob, do you feel like sharing your "Gnostic" beliefs with the rest of the class or not? or are we going to have to wait a year for that as well?

/tick
//tock
///tick tock
 
2014-01-10 03:57:09 PM  

I drunk what: I drunk what: or if you prefer we can wait to see if grump is capable of progress...?

grumpfuff: You bore me. You're boring. I'm bored.

perhaps another year, then eh?  I believe we have our answer, thanks



grumpfuff: You bore me. You're boring. I'm bored.

 
2014-01-10 03:58:14 PM  

RobSeace: I don't even know what there is to argue about with this story


oh Rob, it's never about TFA, you should know that by now, are you new to fark?

RobSeace: The groups that refused to take the money were pretty stupid, IMHO


you could easily convince me about that

however

RobSeace: What is there to argue about?


did you read the thread? i'm sure there is something in there you might take exception with...? or if you are having trouble with those cryptic enigmas, i suppose we can simply continue our last conversation (which you seem to be already 'forgetting'..) i believe you were about to convince me to be an atheist since it seems all of my previous attempts to convince you otherwise had failed

we are ready when you are
 
2014-01-10 04:01:58 PM  

I drunk what: RobSeace: It's sad really

sad because it's True...?


It's sad, because you've been reduced to just posting nonsense as a parody of what you imagine atheists to be rather than just posting as yourself... I used to enjoy arguments with the real you... This fake atheist persona you've created is just an unfunny moron...

well Rob, do you feel like sharing your "Gnostic" beliefs with the rest of the class or not? or are we going to have to wait a year for that as well?

Um, what? I'm certainly not gnostic in any way, at least regarding the question of a deity... I've told you before, I'm an agnostic atheist... Personally, I think everyone is agnostic, because the only way you can really know for sure is to be dead... So, the only question that really matters is that of belief: theist or atheist... I don't believe, and in fact actively disbelieve...
 
2014-01-10 04:21:02 PM  

I drunk what: did you read the thread? i'm sure there is something in there you might take exception with...?


Meh... There's lots of crap posted in the thread... I already responded to one person previously, but nothing else grabbed me enough to bother replying to...

or if you are having trouble with those cryptic enigmas, i suppose we can simply continue our last conversation (which you seem to be already 'forgetting'..) i believe you were about to convince me to be an atheist since it seems all of my previous attempts to convince you otherwise had failed

I don't think you recall correctly... You told me to convince you to be an atheist, and I told you that I had no desire to do such a thing... The whole thread closed soon after, but there was nothing outstanding in our argument on my end; the final two posts in the thread are mine...
 
2014-01-10 04:22:02 PM  

RobSeace: I'm certainly not gnostic in any way, at least regarding the question of a deity


you've told me before that you are over 99% certain about this belief which typically doesn't come from someone claiming to be "agnostic", we've already covered whether or not you like bacon ad nauseum, let's move on shall we?

RobSeace: It's sad, because you've been reduced to just posting nonsense as a parody of what you imagine atheists to be rather than just posting as yourself... I used to enjoy arguments with the real you... This fake atheist persona you've created is just an unfunny moron...


but Dizz is so popular here, what's your problem?

RobSeace: I think everyone is agnostic


i like bacon

RobSeace: because the only way you can really know for 100% sure is to be dead


ftfy, however those that  dare to claim over 51% are gnostics in my book, and my book is the only one that matters, let it go lad
 
2014-01-10 04:31:58 PM  

RobSeace: the final two posts in the thread are mine.


fine, it's my turn then?

(borrowed-continued from previous thread)

I've missed your comment barrage... ;-)

I drunk what: you seem to be presuming that God has physical properties... you've already failed before you begun

Well, if he doesn't, he may as well not exist, since there's not realy any difference from our point of view... If he exists in some other plane of existence or something, which doesn't interact with ours in a detectable way, then for all intents and purposes he doesn't really exist for us... Unless you know of a way to cross into that other realm to see him? (No, I'm not going to try killing myself to see if that works, either!)

I drunk what: RobSeace: IDW: is Jesus a myth?

Jesus? Probably not...

at least there is hope for you, what do you suppose, Lachwen: Well then, present the evidence.,
would say if we asked him...?

Well, she was talking about evidence of a god, not evidence that some guy named Jesus (or Joshua or Yeshua or whatever) existed... There's a lot more of the latter than the former...

I drunk what: you have evidence, you simply choose to not believe it
evidence is all around us, some just are not inclined to perceive-believe it...
and on that note, as a friendly reminder, Faith = evidence of things unseen, not that strawman you were flaming at

Faith is evidence? I don't recall ever hearing it defined that way before... I always thought it was merely a belief in things (as yet) unseen, with or without evidence in support of them... If merely having the belief counts as evidence to you, that seems rather circular logic... Do all those people who firmly believe they've been abducted by aliens have evidence of it by their faith?

I drunk what: btw do you ever use Faith in your beloved Science...? just curious

Every human being operates on faith on some level... I have faith that the sun will come up tomorrow... I have faith that when I drop something it will fall to the floor rather than float away... I have faith that when I turn on the water faucet, water will flow out... Etc... But, the reason we all have faith in such things is because of past observation... The sun has so far come up every morning, so we kind of expect it to keep doing so... Every time we've dropped something, it's fallen downward due to the planet's gravity... Whenever we've turned on the faucet, water has come out; except maybe on a few rare occassions when the plumbing was screwed up, so it's possible it might be screwed up again today when we turn it on, but it's unlikely... So, there are varying levels of faith, based on past observed behavior... But, it's always based on some sort of actual evidence...
If I had never seen a faucet before and encountered one, I'd have no idea what to expect when I turned it on... If someone I trusted told me to expect water to come out because they had personally seen it come out many times before, I might have a bit of faith that that's what would happen... But, if I read an old book written by unknown authors that described faucets and claimed water would come out when turned, I'd be very skeptical, but since it doesn't sound completely against the laws of physics, I might have a sliver of faith in what it says... But, if instead that old book said that unicorns, fairies, genies, and leprechauns would start pouring out of it, I'd have zero faith in it, because it sounds ridiculous and impossible...

I drunk what: She isn't capable of doing anything?
what sort of "nature" have you been observing???

One that isn't a living being capable of actively doing things... When a tornado hits a town, I don't think "That cruel biatch Nature sending a tornado to hit that town and kill all those people!"... No one sent the tornado; it just formed due to the chaotic nature of weather and climate and a host of other unpredictable events and things... It wasn't an action taken by any being, but just a thing that happened, because "shiat happens!"...

I drunk what: convince me to be an atheist

I don't really have any desire to do so... If the idea of a deity seems rational and sane to you, then well you're not likely to be convinced otherwise... To me it sounds utterly irrational and without any kind of justification, so until I see some sort of evidence or at least hear a theory that would make the idea seem even somewhat plausible, I'm certainly not going to believe in one...

I drunk what: is more like the game of Clue and much less like a bill nye experiment where we put god in a test tube and measure his electrons

Interesting analogy... I like it! But, what clues are you picking up that lead you to jump to "God exists!"? Because I must've totally missed those clues...

RobSeace  [TotalFark]
2013-12-14 09:57:49 AM
I drunk what: As for what evidence there is for deism or theism, I'd say that it is much more reasonable to believe in an intelligent creator as the cause of this universe and most certainly for the creation of life we have observed in it thus far.

I'm not sure why that prospect sounds so much more reasonable to you than the prospect that it just randomly happened through the actions of no one... That's presumably the central disconnect between the religious and the irreligious: to you, the idea of things randomly happening through chance (or really chaotic forces beyond our ability to fully explain) sounds absurd, so there must be some intelligent being behind them; while, to us things happening randomly seems perfectly reasonable and expected, while the idea of an intelligent being being responsible for them seems absurd and unnecessary... Our minds must just be wired differently or something...

But, if this intelligent being created the universe, what created the being? Has he always existed? If so, why can't the universe have always existed (through a series of repeating big bangs and crunches)? Or, why couldn't there have always existed higher dimensional branes floating around which occassionally collide with one another, sometimes producing what we observe as the Big Bang and resulting in the formation of a 4D universe like ours? Why is there such a great need for an intelligent being to be behind it all?

---

it will take me a while to catch up and respond barrage style, check back later
 
2014-01-10 05:00:05 PM  

I drunk what: ftfy, however those that dare to claim over 51% are gnostics in my book, and my book is the only one that matters, let it go lad


Well, that's kind of a silly definition, I think... You're mistaking belief for knowledge... No matter how strongly one might believe something doesn't mean that one knows that thing... Yes, to me, 100% certainty is required for knowledge of something; anything less is just a guess of some kind, even if it might be a good guess based on evidence and logical reasoning... (And, yeah, that pretty much means we don't know a hell of a lot for certain, really... We all mostly operate on a series of best guesses all the time...)

But, whatever... Let's not go down the pointless path of a semantics argument... Especially since I don't see why it even matters one way or the other if you want to call me gnostic or agnostic...

/As for continuing the old thread, I don't know how more I'll be able to get in on it...
//I'll be off for the night in about an hour, and they'll probably close the thread tomorrow...
 
2014-01-10 05:40:59 PM  
I drunk RobSeace  : Well, if he doesn't, he may as well not exist

what physical properties does Science have? does it exist?

I drunk RobSeace  : If he exists in some other plane of existence or something, which doesn't interact with ours in a detectable way

have ye not heard of IDW's matrix theory which clearly explains all those details? and no i'm sorry those times (of detectable means) have passed, sorry to break the bad news to you, though you no longer have any detectable ways of knowing if Julius Casear existed either, so then would it be safe to assume that you don't believe he ever existed either, just because you cannot detect him now?  If only there were some means we could use to know what happened before today... hmmm

I drunk RobSeace  : There's a lot more of the latter than the former

like how much more? or less?

I drunk RobSeace  : Faith is evidence?

indeed it is.  hence the definition.

I drunk RobSeace  : I don't recall ever hearing it defined that way before.

Hi, i don't believe we've me, I'm IDW, tis a pleasure to meet you.

//you prolly don't recall being a gnostic either
///or that we've already covered all this stuff before... :(

I drunk RobSeace  : I always thought it was merely a belief in things (as yet) unseen, with or without evidence in support of them.

with? yes, without? Nooo.  that would be the "blind" faith strawman that the butthurt IB lurves to rail against.  please don't be a noob.

I drunk RobSeace  : If merely having the belief counts as evidence to you

careful lad, you're approaching abbey-like levels of pedantics there, and you remember how much fun those exchanges were...? :\

the fact that a blind person can describe the color yellow to me does seem to indicate they have had some sort of encounter (directly or indirectly) with colors at some point.... yes, and we'll leave it at that.

I drunk RobSeace  : that seems rather circular logic

if you're doing it wrong, i can see why that would be the case

I drunk RobSeace  : Do all those people who firmly believe they've been abducted by aliens have evidence of it by their faith?

they have sufficient evidence to convince me that physical beings exist somewhere in the universe, and we can at least start from there...  and since we're being pedants, if they claim to have actually have seen personally with their own eyes, "alien beings" that would not be faith, but actual OBSERVED evidence, not the UNOBSERVED kind which would fall under the Faith category.

/see you forget things so quickly...  :(
 
2014-01-10 05:47:02 PM  

HindiDiscoMonster: Christians have attributes that must be met in order to be Christian, just as Scientists have certain attributes in order to be true Scientists, same with Attorneys, Judges, Journalists, etc... just because someone calls themselves a one eyed one horned flying purple people eater does not make that statement true.


i'm a chinese jet pilot

prove me wrong

though we'd like to hear more about that "christian attributes" stuff...

what is a "christian"?  and feel free to include as many attributes you deem necessary
 
2014-01-10 06:14:54 PM  

HindiDiscoMonster: I am very sorry about your brain Aneurysm or whatever happened to you... but if this is all you have left, I am afraid I will have to say adios.


His prior ravings were just him playing anti-IDW, the pretend atheist...

I'm pretty sure I've heard the real IDW agree completely with you on the definition of Christian before... And, he also agreed that most of the folks who call themselves Christians these days don't really qualify...
 
2014-01-10 06:15:40 PM  

HindiDiscoMonster: You used to be a good debater


there's a debate???  i've spent the last ~10 years simply trying to get morans to understand the meanings of words, I haven't seen a good debate for eons..  you do realize that you are posting on Fark.com, correct?

/now who is having the aneurysm...?

HindiDiscoMonster: I couldn't care less if you are or are not.


this is the typical quality-response you will receive irregardless of whatever topic is being "debated" here, good luck with that, Dizz took over a loooooooong time ago, I'm only posting at the moment for Rob, because I recall him to be at least somewhat civil, even if he constantly forgets all the stuff we already covered

i don't recall who you are or whether or not you're worth the time, my Weeners to you was using the Dizz persona found in my profile, which is already way too deep for Fark, i'm sorry if you thought I was making some sort of comeback?  i'm not interested

i wish the best of luck to you

FWIW, i like your answer about what a Christian is...  if you wish to discuss philosophy sometime i may check in time from time
 
2014-01-10 06:17:29 PM  

HindiDiscoMonster: see how simple that is?


indeed.
 
2014-01-10 06:42:01 PM  

I drunk what: what physical properties does Science have? does it exist?


The general concept or idea of science only exists in our minds, like all such concepts and ideas... The practice of science involves physical steps (perform experiments to prove or disprove a hypothesis)... If one wanted to test whether or not science existed in a given society, one could simply observe the people and see if they seemed to be carrying out scientific experiments and forming future beliefs based on the outcomes... Similarly, one could test for religion existing... But, how do you setup a test for whether or not a deity exists?

I drunk what: hough you no longer have any detectable ways of knowing if Julius Casear existed either, so then would it be safe to assume that you don't believe he ever existed either, just because you cannot detect him now?


No, because nothing about his supposed existence seems incredible or particularly fantastical... Some recorded details of his life might have been invented, but the fact that he existed seems entirely plausible... Similarly, I find it easy to accept that someone called Jesus of Nazareth (among other things) probably existed... I just have a hard time accepting the more fantastical of the reported details of his life (the supposed miracles he performed, and him being the son of a deity)...

You know the old saying, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"? Most people will give the benefit of the doubt to a report or claim of something having happened so long as it sounds somewhat reasonable and plausible... But, if you make the claim sound incredible, people are going to want to see more solid evidence before just accepting it as true...

I drunk what: the fact that a blind person can describe the color yellow to me does seem to indicate they have had some sort of encounter (directly or indirectly) with colors at some point....


I'm not sure how that relates to anything... However, another explanation is that the blind person just invented an explanation... Or, he copied someone else's explanation that he heard...

I drunk what: they have sufficient evidence to convince me that physical beings exist somewhere in the universe, and we can at least start from there...


Sure, I'd agree... But, it's got nothing to do with evidence from self-claimed abductees! I think the simple huge scale of the universe and law of averages is all the evidence needed to arrive at the conclusion that alien life is very, very likely somewhere... But, that same huge scale also leads to the probability that it's very, very unlikely any have ever traveled to Earth...

and since we're being pedants, if they claim to have actually have seen personally with their own eyes, "alien beings" that would not be faith, but actual OBSERVED evidence, not the UNOBSERVED kind which would fall under the Faith category.

They claim that, yes... Some may be lying... Some may be mentally ill and delusional... Some may have been under the influence of some drug at time and hallucinating... Some may have just had something go wrong temporarily in their brains, and had hallucinations without the need for any drugs...

Self-reported observation of something is surely strong evidence to the observer, but it's very weak evidence to most others who didn't observe it... We might take you at your word if what you reported is plausible, like I say, but if it's fantastical, we're going to assume you're probably just bullshiatting or crazy...
 
2014-01-10 06:43:22 PM  

RobSeace: His prior ravings were just him playing anti-IDW, the pretend atheist...


darn that poe's trooper law

/i wonder if grump is making any progress yet?

grumpfuff: You bore me. You're boring. I'm bored.


*sigh*

you see Rob, the way i see it, the only way to have an intelligent conversation is to debate myself... :\

and just for kicks and giggles

Lee451: Words have meanings and it is good to know what those meanings are.


What is Nature?

:)  for my fans
 
2014-01-10 06:43:53 PM  

I drunk what: even if he constantly forgets all the stuff we already covered


Man, give me a break; it's usually months between our talks! Plus, I'm an old fart these days... ;-)
 
2014-01-10 07:14:31 PM  
Christian: "I believe in Jesus and screw you if you don't!"
Islamist: "I believe in Allah and screw you if you don't!"
Atheist: "I don't believe in either one of those guys and screw you if you do!"

What do these three have in common?

They're all ATTENTION WHORES... nothing more.

You either do or don't believe in something?  Then how about STFU 'cause no one cares.

Piping up about it just means that you're a SELF-LABELING attention whore, which is far more pathetic than the self-professed fundies.
 
2014-01-10 07:39:40 PM  

RobSeace: The general concept or idea of science only exists in our minds, like all such concepts and ideas


so then concepts, ideas, etc.. (or "information" if you will) do not exist because they have no physical properties, it is only our "minds" that give them the illusion of existing?

/puffs pipe

fascinating.jpg

//blows bubbles

RobSeace: But, how do you setup a test for whether or not a deity exists?


how does Neo (in the Matrix) test for whether or not Morpheus in the real world exists?

hmmm, i suppose:  

RobSeace: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"


see, you're already answering your own questions, and saving me a bunch of typing...

/thanks

so then, what sort of extra ordinary evidence do you suppose would be required to prove that a deity exists...?

I'll give you a hint:

1.bp.blogspot.com

or I suppose someone could just simply be shown directly what the real world looks like...?  did you get a chance to read Revelation yet? assuming you don't want to take Jesus' Word for it, after He went through all the trouble to prove His claims... with 'Extraordinary evidence' just as you asked for...

there is just no pleasing some people
 
2014-01-10 07:47:22 PM  

RobSeace: because nothing about his supposed existence seems incredible or particularly fantastical


so then... the ONLY way you would believe that Jesus is The Son of God is IF his existence had nothing incredible or fantastical??  is this one of them catch 22 things?

if Jesus didn't perform miracles WHY would ANY one believe Him?!?  but IF He does then it probably didn't happen??!!??

>:(

RobSeace: Some recorded details of his life might have been invented


just the parts where he claimed deity, performed miracles, etc.. IOW the ENTIRE point of the Bible, but yeah other than those few minor "probably fabricated" details you are ok with the possibility that there might have been some dude named Jesus that lived in the middle east somewhere, who might have done some carpentry or something...

that's what I got from reading the Bible

one elaborate hoax    O.O

we will wait here to see if you're being serious...
 
2014-01-10 08:19:02 PM  

HindiDiscoMonster: I mean after God showed them sign after sign after sign, they loose faith along the way? I mean WTF... seriously.


thou hast said it

but perhaps there is something to Rob's theory, surely humans cannot be that stupid...?

i have found in these discussions what a difference one's attitude makes in conjunction with IQ when determining their rate of success in handling matters of religion, people sure do waste a lot of time bragging about their PhDs n' such when a 5th grader already has the capability to handle the information.

on that note, i would suggest that it was not the brains of those people that was the problem rather it was their hearts
 
2014-01-10 08:27:41 PM  

HindiDiscoMonster: or cognitive dissonance... or something, not even sure what to call it


speaking of the devil..., Rob is about to enter the "Bible is probably some sort of elaborate hoax" phase of his journey, so buckle your seatbelts

you may want to take some notes...  I always find this part fascinating

the more intelligent the person is, the more I am in awe how long they can keep it up

/most of them quickly change the subject
//touchy nerves
 
2014-01-10 09:04:39 PM  
I drunk Rob: Every human being operates on faith on some level... I have faith that the sun will come up tomorrow... I have faith that when I drop something it will fall to the floor rather than float away

i have faith that physical beings are incapable of imagining non-physical things, or that blind men are capable of describing the color yellow

i have faith that men are completely incapable of maintaining a hoax over 1000s of years through 40+ authors (including untold amounts of witnesses)

i have faith that there is a God and that His Son is your only chance of Salvation...

I drunk Rob: One that isn't a living being capable of actively doing things... When a tornado hits a town, I don't think "That cruel biatch Nature sending a tornado to hit that town and kill all those people!"... No one sent the tornado; it just formed due to the chaotic nature of weather and climate and a host of other unpredictable events and things... It wasn't an action taken by any being, but just a thing that happened, because "shiat happens!"...

Do things happen from nothing? Do living things happen from non-living things?

This^ stuff is going to be very important if you are going to convince me to be an atheist.  Let's begin by presuming that you believe everything ALWAYS existed (which ironically you cannot believe so long as we are talking about Intelligent Life... for some reason) would you care to share your evidence for such a belief?

I drunk Rob: I don't really have any desire to do so

sure you do, for you see the first step to convince IDW is being able to convince yourself...  :)

and if you have in fact stumbled upon the Truth, I'm quite certain that you wouldn't withhold such info from you pal IDW, after all we've been through...?

I drunk Rob: But, what clues are you picking up that lead you to jump to "God exists!"? Because I must've totally missed those clues...

is that some sort of "leap" of faith pun? we are not amused

a solid belief in God is not something arrived at by leaping or jumping, but rather a journey of 1,000 miles... that begins with a single step

/baby steps

it's more a race of endurance and much less a race of speed.

I drunk Rob: the idea of things randomly happening through chance (or really chaotic forces beyond our ability to fully explain) sounds absurd

Nature-Physical is more indifferent than random, it only appears random to those who don't understand its ... (puts on sunglasses) ... Nature.

The human need to justify any-every physical event with some sort of Intelligent cause does not affect me.  Though i am a bit confused about who you are referring to here, because it is usually the scientism crowd that suffers from this symptom not the religious...?

I do hate it when you mistake me for those yahoos that claim to be xtian who go around claiming "gawd did this" and "gawd did that", etc..  we are not the same.  I can assure you.

I drunk Rob: Our minds must just be wired differently or something...

are you mentally retarded? No? then we are functionally the same, brain =/= heart

look deeper

I drunk Rob: 1.  But, if this intelligent being created the universe, what created the being? 2. Has he always existed? 3. If so, why can't the universe have always existed (through a series of repeating big bangs and crunches)? 4. Or, why couldn't there have always existed higher dimensional branes floating around which occassionally collide with one another, sometimes producing what we observe as the Big Bang and resulting in the formation of a 4D universe like ours? 5. Why is there such a great need for an intelligent being to be behind it all?

1. eternal things are not created
2. yes
3. it could have, do you have any evidence to support your theory?  i have a sworn testimony from my subject.
4. put the bong down skippy
5. who said we had a need?  isn't it possible we simply came to that conclusion by observing the evidence and postulating a hypothesis, testing our theory and confirming it with facts?  you act like Science is the only methodology.  do you know how little emotion i invest into my religion? i am one of the most robotic Christians you'll ever meet, Science and Religion are but two sides of the same coin to IDW

haven't you been paying attention...?

www.theboredninja.com
 
2014-01-11 12:13:07 AM  
omg. i found out that some self proclaimed fark atheists that claim to volunteer are full of sh*t and they do anything to help poor people.

i am so surprised!

then again, they are just talking monkeys, like bill clinton. we know better than to expect the truth.
 
2014-01-11 12:41:30 AM  
Is this the thread where either everybody is an enlightened, non-believing, non-straight, non-white, non-male or DESTROYING THE PLANET!?  Because so far, a bunch of smirky twats getting "enlightened" on daddy's dime playing "Gotcha!" hasn't saved it.   :  )   themoreyouknow.jpg
 
2014-01-11 01:07:18 AM  

bunner: Is this the thread where either everybody is an enlightened, non-believing, non-straight, non-white, non-male or DESTROYING THE PLANET!?  Because so far, a bunch of smirky twats getting "enlightened" on daddy's dime playing "Gotcha!" hasn't saved it.   :  )   themoreyouknow.jpg


yes.
 
2014-01-11 10:22:13 AM  

I drunk what: so then concepts, ideas, etc.. (or "information" if you will) do not exist because they have no physical properties, it is only our "minds" that give them the illusion of existing?


They don't really exist externally to our minds, no... I mean, we could write them down in books, but without other minds to read and understand them, the abstract ideas themselves have no existence of their own... In a way, you could say they exist physically within our minds, since all memories and knowledge are just neurons in our brains wired in certain ways and firing in certain patterns...

I drunk what: so then, what sort of extra ordinary evidence do you suppose would be required to prove that a deity exists...?

I'll give you a hint:


Sure, anyone witnessing his supposed miracles likely would believe... Even I might, though I'd probably be pretty skeptical, especially about stuff like that walking on water trick, which I've seen magicians do... (And, no, I don't care what you say, I'll never accept that Criss Angel is the son of God! Satan, maybe... ;-)) But, sure, if I witness enough compelling first-hand evidence of actual miracles being performed, I'd either have to start believing or check myself into an asylum because I thought I must be crazy...

But, I've never witnessed any such thing... And, as I said, second-hand recounting of things others supposedly witnessed are not very compelling to those who weren't there to witness it themselves... People are known to lie, exagerate, misremember, and just generally be unreliable witnesses... Now, add in a time gap of a couple millennia, and make all those second-hand tales third, fourth, and more times removed tales, when we all know that stories change with every retelling... What you end up with is a collection of stories one can't trust to be accurate... Especially when the stories make seemingly outrageous claims that seem to contradict the laws of physics as we know them... I can't grasp how one would choose to favor those stories written by strangers as being more trustworthy than their own working knowledge of how reality works...

I drunk what: so then... the ONLY way you would believe that Jesus is The Son of God is IF his existence had nothing incredible or fantastical?? is this one of them catch 22 things?


What I'm saying is the only way I'd be inclined to accept the words of strangers from ages ago is if what they're saying seemed at least plausible and consistent with reality as I know it... If they wrote about fire-breathing dragons, I'd doubt them... I'd consider their writings fiction, alongside Homer's Iliad and Odyssey...

To get me to accept that fire-breathing dragons exist, I'm afraid you're going to need to show me one... Or, at least provide a lot more compelling evidence than "Some dude a long time ago said they did!"... A fossilized dragon skeleton perhaps... Something other than the sayso of an unknown stranger from ages ago...

I drunk what: you are ok with the possibility that there might have been some dude named Jesus that lived in the middle east somewhere, who might have done some carpentry or something...


And, said some really good things and had really good ideas about how to treat people and live your life... That, I think, is what is really important about Jesus: his teachings... Not whether or not he walked on water or turned water into wine or healed cripples with his touch... It's his ideas that matter, and to have those he need have been nothing more than an enlightened man, as far as I'm concerned...

I drunk what: i have faith that physical beings are incapable of imagining non-physical things


I suppose that's going to depend on how you're defining "non-physical" here... Because, lots of people have imagined stuff like ghosts and poltergeists, which are generally considered non-physical... But, then if you can define "non-physical", surely you can imagine something that fits that definition? Otherwise, how could you even define it?

I drunk what: i have faith that men are completely incapable of maintaining a hoax over 1000s of years through 40+ authors (including untold amounts of witnesses)


You're the only one throwing around the "hoax" pejorative... Are the Iliad and Odyssey hoaxes? Or are they just nice fictional accounts of Greek mythology? Remember, those Greeks actually believed in those gods and those mythological creatures mentioned... So, do you have faith that those were all real too, just because some ancient Greeks believed in them and wrote about them? If not, why do you discount those ancient accounts, but so readily accept those in the Bible? What lends so much credence to one over the other?

I drunk what: Do things happen from nothing?


It doesn't seem logical, but it does seem to be the case... But, then, lots about quantum physics seems illogical, but it's all been proven pretty damn conclusively...

Do living things happen from non-living things?

I think so, yes...

I drunk what: sure you do, for you see the first step to convince IDW is being able to convince yourself... :)


That's the entire point of debate for me: keeping me on my toes about my own beliefs, and to make sure I can justify holding them...

I drunk what: and if you have in fact stumbled upon the Truth, I'm quite certain that you wouldn't withhold such info from you pal IDW, after all we've been through...?


I wouldn't withhold anything, but at the same time I wouldn't try to impose anything on you either... I gain nothing by convincing you to disbelieve in your god...

I drunk what: Nature-Physical is more indifferent than random, it only appears random to those who don't understand its ... (puts on sunglasses) ... Nature.


Like I said, chaotic forces beyond our ability to easily explain...

I drunk what: scientism


Really? Did you just channel Bevets for a second there, IDW... You're better than that... Next, you'll be talking about "evolutionists"...

I drunk what: brain =/= heart


True, but I'm not sure what a blood-pumping organ has to do with anything... If you're using "heart" in the collequial sense, what you're talking about is still located in the brain...

I drunk what: 3. it could have, do you have any evidence to support your theory? i have a sworn testimony from my subject.


No, you have a collection of stories from a group of mostly unknown authors of unknown trustworthiness which have been retranslated and reinterpreted many times over the millennia... You do not have the word of Jehovah; you have the word of man claiming to be his word... Why should you trust those men to be telling you the truth? Do you also trust Homer to be telling you the truth in his writings? Can I take that as a "sworn testimony" from Zeus and Apollo that they exist?

The multiple big bang/crunch idea is actually highly doubtful given recent revelations that the expansion of the universe continues to speed up rather than be slowing down as would be expected for the big crunch to ever happen... So, no, I have more evidence against that than for...

The far more likely scenario is the one you told me to "put the bong down" for mentioning: higher dimensional branes colliding... But, there are also various other possibilities...

(And, yes, that a deity of some sort started it all off is a possibility... It's just one that I don't consider very likely... Because, if the deity can exist outside the realm of the universe, then something else can just as easily... And, that something else could be responsible without needing to be an intelligent entity of any sort... Just through the same "random" chaotic actions we witness in our own universe, something similar could have happened in whatever external realm this is to cause it...)
 
2014-01-11 11:09:17 AM  

HindiDiscoMonster: you may be right about that


looks like Rob has some stuff to think about. if you wanna chat i may be around, though i don't frequent these parts anymore, i got bored with the tired old routines

so at least there is something grumpfuff and IDW have in common...

good luck and i will hope for the best
 
2014-01-11 11:47:35 AM  

RobSeace: They don't really exist externally to our minds, no


this is the part where you and abbey try to figure out if 1+1=2 depends on whether or not there are any humans around to calculate such things...  or if Information exists at all.

meanwhile you guys sure love the physicalism view of reality, which states that if something does not have physical (or at least "metaphysical") properties then it does not exist...

Neo and Morpheus are amused with these sort of conversations about how real the Matrix is, and how the Real World doesn't really exist because it's just an idea is some meat popsicle's brain, and ideas don't have physical properties therefore aren't real.  But if someone wants to prove that the Real World exists they can provide some sort of physical evidence in the Matrix to support their claim...? Oh dear i've gone crossed eyed again, i hate when that happens...  what were we talking about?

ah yes you were reminding me about how Reality only consists of physical things, and therefore Rob doesn't exist and is only an illusion created by his meat popsicle, and there is no such thing as math, logic, invention, or information of any sort, because they have no physical properties.

I will inform everyone who makes a living using, developing, learning from those things, that they are in fact living in a delusional world.  The poor souls...

is this a bad time to ask you to prove that you exist?  that used to be my litmus test to determine whether or not to proceed with any further discussions, i mean if the "person" with whom I am speaking cannot even prove they exist, why bother bickering about all that other stuff?

RobSeace: I mean, we could write them down in books


so then information only exists because of books, meat bags with brains, other forms of media? or it doesn't exist?? you're starting to confuse me

RobSeace: In a way, you could say they exist physically within our minds


i see so then our "minds" are physical things?  therefore MIND == BRAIN, correct?

if i slice away half of your brain, is Rob half gone?  are retards, n' such less people?  for example is a typical farker approximately equal to 0.23 of a "person" simply using brain matter as a metric...?  should they have less voting rights, etc..?  just curious

/this is the part when farkers wish i was trolling...

RobSeace: since all memories and knowledge are just neurons in our brains wired in certain ways and firing in certain patterns


i.imgur.com

...have you ever retired a human by mistake?
 
2014-01-11 12:10:37 PM  

RobSeace: Sure, anyone witnessing his supposed miracles likely would believe..


you would think.... yet

HindiDiscoMonster: I mean after God showed them sign after sign after sign, they loose faith along the way? I mean WTF... seriously... that is a serious lack of faith problem or cognative disonance... or something, not even sure what to call it.


Mr. DiscoMonster, and reality itself, seems to disagree with that hypothesis...

darn that FreeWill *shakes angry fist*

RobSeace: Even I might, though I'd probably be pretty skeptical


which is a good thing, God gave you brains to be able to separate the Criss Angels from the Jesus.  though i'm afraid i have some bad news for ya.  you have been chosen to take part in a test of Faith, and will not be privy to the types of evidence that you desire but can read plenty about in the Bible (complete with overwhelming amounts of corroborating evidence, multiple witnessed-viewpoints, etc... all just minor details).  I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news.  I recommend getting over it ASAP.  There are times to cling and obsess about things and there are times to let go.

if it's any consolation, if you feel better pointing out how idiotic people are today making claims about miracles, supernatural stuff, etc.. you will have IDW's support.  100%

we don't care for charlatans and frauds either.  even those who paved their way with the 'best' of intentions...

RobSeace: But, I've never witnessed any such thing... And, as I said, second-hand recounting of things others supposedly witnessed are not very compelling to those who weren't there to witness it themselves... People are known to lie, exagerate, misremember, and just generally be unreliable witnesses... Now, add in a time gap of a couple millennia, and make all those second-hand tales third, fourth, and more times removed tales, when we all know that stories change with every retelling... What you end up with is a collection of stories one can't trust to be accurate...


ninjakirby-like typing detected, with that awful stink of Bart D. Ehrman tainting your post

skepticism is healthy up to a point, and then you cross over into the nay-saying derp territory, Bart is good at duping semi-intelligent people like nk, because he wears the sheeps clothing of appearing to be a "fact" finding "truth" seeker, and in the end is only slightly better than the people who are still debating whether or not man landed on the moon...  but Bart knows that religion (and all those emotional investments) sells more books so he is a bit more clever than the others

i'd love to do a point by point analysis and debunking (you guys love that word) of all this garbage you are referring to, but that would take a long time and very specific amounts of study and research.  which you should be doing yourself anyway...

and in your defense, there is a LOT of information to sift through and very little time to do it, pick your battles wisely
 
2014-01-11 12:25:54 PM  

RobSeace: To get me to accept that fire-breathing dragons exist, I'm afraid you're going to need to show me one..


and to get you to accept that God exists...?

careful what you ask for

RobSeace: That, I think, is what is really important about Jesus: his teachings... Not whether or not he walked on water or turned water into wine or healed cripples with his touch... It's his ideas that matter


you are so close to being a Christian it's just silly that you aren't... are you a silly person Rob?  because it's just silly, if we were talking in person, i could just give you a nice firm slap to the face, and I bet it would correct whatever neuron misfiring is preventing you from overcoming certain mental ruts you keep getting dug into, i tried slapping my monitor, but i'm pretty sure you didn't feel it

*sigh* ... THIS^

but FWIW those miracles were absolutely necessary to ensure plenty of proof for those particular individuals who have extra thick skulls.  and here we are.

HindiDiscoMonster: I mean after God showed them sign after sign after sign, they loose faith along the way? I mean WTF... seriously... that is a serious lack of faith problem or cognative disonance... or something, not even sure what to call it.


yes Mr. Disco, i'm beginning to clearly see your point, even thousands of years later...

i mean if they lost faith after only a few hours/days, what chance do people have now?  :\
 
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