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(Yahoo)   DOJ and DOE to US schools: Okay, time to knock off this "Zero tolerance" crap, and FFS stop having kids arrested for assault and battery every time they shoot a spitball at a teacher, mmm'kay?   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 67
    More: Spiffy, FFS, DOJ, okays, zero-tolerance, Randi Weingarten, American Federation of Teachers, Education Secretary Arne Duncan, special educations  
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8443 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Jan 2014 at 1:14 PM (26 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



67 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-01-09 12:34:12 PM
Yeah, you're skewing our crime stats.
Making us look bad.
 
2014-01-09 12:39:42 PM
Time to whip out your Pop-Tart guns kids!
 
2014-01-09 01:02:31 PM
It's long overdue that we smash up that school-to-prison pipeline.
 
2014-01-09 01:12:30 PM

xanadian: It's long overdue that we smash up that school-to-prison pipeline.


That will hurt the growth rates of private prison industries.  Then we'd just have to lock up some other demographic instead.  Better to get them while they're young, so that we can keep locking them up again and again and again.
 
2014-01-09 01:17:21 PM
I'm just glad I didn't get arrested when I climbed the roof of a school decades ago.
 
2014-01-09 01:17:40 PM
It's sad that we needed the DOE and DOJ to state the obvious here.
 
2014-01-09 01:20:54 PM
Farker caught urinating in back yard at 1:00AM to DOJ; how 'bout lightening up on that sex-offender tag, mmm'kay?
 
2014-01-09 01:21:23 PM
African-American students without disabilities are over three times more likely than their white peers to receive suspensions or expulsions, for instance.

Obviously that means school rules are racially biased...
 
2014-01-09 01:21:40 PM

macross87: I'm just glad I didn't get arrested when I climbed the roof of a school decades ago.


eheh, did the same thing.  I craved basket, dodge and tennis balls.
/not sure why
//kids
///slashies!
 
2014-01-09 01:21:49 PM
You got a little sanity on your chin there. Might want to clean that up.
 
2014-01-09 01:22:53 PM

Chummer45: It's sad that we needed the DOE and DOJ to state the obvious here.


For common sense to prevail, it usually requires a very loud spokesperson to be heard over all the wharrgarble.
 
2014-01-09 01:22:56 PM

Chummer45: It's sad that we needed the DOE and DOJ to state the obvious here.


Well, at least someone is. So many administrators and teachers are so full of themselves that they think there on some sort of great crusade of protecting the children. Kind of shakes up that world when the Department of Justice comes in and tells them their actually batshiat crazy
 
2014-01-09 01:23:10 PM
dianarn.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-01-09 01:23:44 PM
Good.
 
2014-01-09 01:24:24 PM
Out-of-school suspension for absenteeism? Why, thanks, principal!
 
2014-01-09 01:25:14 PM

Shadi: African-American students without disabilities are over three times more likely than their white peers to receive suspensions or expulsions, for instance.

Obviously that means school rules are racially biased...


Obviously that means that blacks cause all the crime, right?  fark you asshole.
 
2014-01-09 01:25:22 PM
Subby, Why does the Department of Energy care about this at all?

/You don't mean DOE, you mean "ED".
//TMYK!
 
2014-01-09 01:25:48 PM
I normally stick up for teachers, but....

When this was announced yesterday, the outcry was that schools could no longer punish students for misbehaving. I'm so glad that I had a principal who was smart enough to abolish zero-tolerance rules during his first year.
 
2014-01-09 01:26:01 PM

Shadi: African-American students without disabilities are over three times more likely than their white peers to receive suspensions or expulsions, for instance.

Obviously that means school rules are racially biased...


controlled for income level?  it does strongly hint that somethin' ain't right.   You may wish to Google the term "disparate impact"
 
2014-01-09 01:26:19 PM
Another study found that 95 percent of out-of-school suspensions were for nonviolent, minor problems like tardiness or disrespect, Duncan said.

well, yeah. duh.

otherwise they'd have to deal with the problem.
 
2014-01-09 01:26:41 PM

iaazathot: three times more likely

blacks cause all the crime


You need help with math.
 
2014-01-09 01:26:42 PM

tarheel07: Out-of-school suspension for absenteeism? Why, thanks, principal!


This. I got a OOS suspension for skipping class once, way back in the early '90s. When the principal called my mom to let her know that I was being suspended, you could hear her eyes rolling over the phone at the lack of logic displayed in that policy.
 
2014-01-09 01:28:26 PM

mod3072: [dianarn.files.wordpress.com image 460x686]


I'm convinced that common sense is being bred out of the human genome.
 
2014-01-09 01:29:16 PM

Shadi: iaazathot: three times more likely

blacks cause all the crime

You need help with math.


You need help understanding how society works.
 
2014-01-09 01:30:36 PM
Anyone here ever nailed an Education major?

Try it.  Everything--all of this--will make sense afterwards.
 
2014-01-09 01:31:28 PM

iaazathot: You need help understanding how society works.


ouch BURN. good comeback. you have destroyed my initial point entirely.
 
2014-01-09 01:31:32 PM
Huh, I expected to see more authoritarian wankers in here, looks like we are just stuck with Shadi.  He's not even a challenge.
 
2014-01-09 01:35:20 PM

iaazathot: Shadi: African-American students without disabilities are over three times more likely than their white peers to receive suspensions or expulsions, for instance.

Obviously that means school rules are racially biased...

Obviously that means that blacks cause all the crime, right?  fark you asshole.


ts4.mm.bing.net

                  "If I only had a brain"
 
2014-01-09 01:35:33 PM

iaazathot: Shadi: African-American students without disabilities are over three times more likely than their white peers to receive suspensions or expulsions, for instance.

Obviously that means school rules are racially biased...

Obviously that means that blacks cause all the crime, right?  fark you asshole.


I thought zero tolerance was supposed to even the playing field by getting rid of "kids will be kids" leniency in the case of privileged white boys
 
2014-01-09 01:36:25 PM

Shadi: iaazathot: You need help understanding how society works.

ouch BURN. good comeback. you have destroyed my initial point entirely.


Hmmm, let's see, poorer minority school district staffed with underpaid, stressed out administrators just punish and arrest their problems away.  Meanwhile, over at the white prep school, where many, many the kids ARE doing drugs, drinking, and breaking rules nothing happens to them...ever (personal experience in the white prep school).  Yep, you're aces buddy.  Quick publish your brilliant paper and tell the world that racism in America is dead!  We'll wait.
 
2014-01-09 01:36:33 PM
Well, it's true. I understand that folks are trying to cover their butts from lawsuits, but this crap is recockulous...
 
2014-01-09 01:36:35 PM

iaazathot: Shadi: African-American students without disabilities are over three times more likely than their white peers to receive suspensions or expulsions, for instance.

Obviously that means school rules are racially biased...

Obviously that means that blacks cause all the crime, right?  fark you asshole.


gs1.wac.edgecastcdn.net

Just saying.  At my high school, the Whites may have been causing all the crimes, but the Blacks were dumb enough to brag about it in front of teachers and cops, so they always got caught.

Met one mediocre black kid in high school.  Otherwise, they broke down about 40-60 "Future leaders of America"/"Utter thugs who thought it was funny to trip kids in the hallways and steal stuff out of their backpacks, and it's only a matter of time until they're in jail."  And as best as I can tell, it was a perfect correlation to "Raised in suburbs"/"Raised in Detroit ghetto".

Just saying.  It's not a race problem, it's a culture problem.
 
2014-01-09 01:37:04 PM
Gee, these administrators who we pay 6 figure salaries to and are sucking up the lions share of our education budget (nearly the highest in the world per pupil) should be expected to use common sense and their own judgment instead of just blindly following broad policies voted on by committee following actuarial recommendations with no exceptions for specific circumstances?

Sounds about right.
 
2014-01-09 01:39:25 PM

Fano: iaazathot: Shadi: African-American students without disabilities are over three times more likely than their white peers to receive suspensions or expulsions, for instance.

Obviously that means school rules are racially biased...

Obviously that means that blacks cause all the crime, right?  fark you asshole.

I thought zero tolerance was supposed to even the playing field by getting rid of "kids will be kids" leniency in the case of privileged white boys


Oh, the answer to that is simple, just don't bust the white kids or give them a stern talking too.  Zero tolerance was passed to allow administrators to not have to think or really deal with kids, particularly minority students.  Also, we have seen a few situations where judges and school administrators collude with private prisons for the $$$.
 
2014-01-09 01:45:43 PM

meyerkev: iaazathot: Shadi: African-American students without disabilities are over three times more likely than their white peers to receive suspensions or expulsions, for instance.

Obviously that means school rules are racially biased...

Obviously that means that blacks cause all the crime, right?  fark you asshole.

[gs1.wac.edgecastcdn.net image 400x389]

Just saying.  At my high school, the Whites may have been causing all the crimes, but the Blacks were dumb enough to brag about it in front of teachers and cops, so they always got caught.

Met one mediocre black kid in high school.  Otherwise, they broke down about 40-60 "Future leaders of America"/"Utter thugs who thought it was funny to trip kids in the hallways and steal stuff out of their backpacks, and it's only a matter of time until they're in jail."  And as best as I can tell, it was a perfect correlation to "Raised in suburbs"/"Raised in Detroit ghetto".

Just saying.  It's not a race problem, it's a culture problem.


So, the whites are causing crime too, but blacks cause all the crime?  Culture is a problem, but culture comes after genetic skin coloring in the chain of causality.  It's a complicated issue, but it definitely is not true that there is no racism and that blacks commit crime at a 3:1 rate to whites.  As the criminal justice system becomes more profit oriented, we are seeing more and more whites treated similarly to the way minorities are treated, because we have to feed the profit monster, which means we need more criminals.  We are learning from that data that law enforcement has been much more selective of its attentions in the past.  Now that the white middle class is being squeezed, their cultural protections and entitlements are being slowly stripped away.  It's true racism is slowing down in America, but not because minorities are becoming more equal, because the rest of us are being reduced down to second class citizen status too.  We made our choices.
 
2014-01-09 01:53:42 PM

iaazathot: meyerkev: iaazathot: Shadi: African-American students without disabilities are over three times more likely than their white peers to receive suspensions or expulsions, for instance.

Obviously that means school rules are racially biased...

Obviously that means that blacks cause all the crime, right?  fark you asshole.

[gs1.wac.edgecastcdn.net image 400x389]

Just saying.  At my high school, the Whites may have been causing all the crimes, but the Blacks were dumb enough to brag about it in front of teachers and cops, so they always got caught.

Met one mediocre black kid in high school.  Otherwise, they broke down about 40-60 "Future leaders of America"/"Utter thugs who thought it was funny to trip kids in the hallways and steal stuff out of their backpacks, and it's only a matter of time until they're in jail."  And as best as I can tell, it was a perfect correlation to "Raised in suburbs"/"Raised in Detroit ghetto".

Just saying.  It's not a race problem, it's a culture problem.

So, the whites are causing crime too, but blacks cause all the crime?  Culture is a problem, but culture comes after genetic skin coloring in the chain of causality.  It's a complicated issue, but it definitely is not true that there is no racism and that blacks commit crime at a 3:1 rate to whites.  As the criminal justice system becomes more profit oriented, we are seeing more and more whites treated similarly to the way minorities are treated, because we have to feed the profit monster, which means we need more criminals.  We are learning from that data that law enforcement has been much more selective of its attentions in the past.  Now that the white middle class is being squeezed, their cultural protections and entitlements are being slowly stripped away.  It's true racism is slowing down in America, but not because minorities are becoming more equal, because the rest of us are being reduced down to second class citizen status too.  We made our choices.


Maybe I missed it, but other than you, who said blacks commit all the crimes?
 
2014-01-09 01:57:56 PM

iaazathot: So, the whites are causing crime too, but blacks cause all the crime?


Whites may or may not have been committing all the crime.  I wouldn't know because they could keep farking quiet.
Blacks were being dumb enough to commit loud, visible crime and then brag about it in front of cops.

As long as enough black people to show up on statistics brag about it in front of cops, there will be more blacks in jail.

/Seriously, I had a kid rip my backpack off my back and steal $50.
//Didn't know about the $50 bit until a week later when he bragged about it in front of cops, and I got called down to the office to collect my $50 back.
///Like I'm honestly not mad.  I'm legitimately impressed.  He had my backpack for maybe 30 seconds and figured out which pocket my "Oh Crap" money was in (and the entire point of that money is that you forget it's there until "Oh crap, I need $20 for gas.  I wonder if I have any money in my pockets.  Oh, I do."), and stole it while I was watching and chasing after him.  That's impressive.
 
2014-01-09 02:02:11 PM

meyerkev: iaazathot: So, the whites are causing crime too, but blacks cause all the crime?


And in all honesty, the problem wasn't black kids.  The problem was that the Indians had all gotten rich enough to move out of the cheap apartments into big, shoddily-built houses, and the cheap apartments were getting filled by the latest wave of refugees from Detroit.

The problem was the subset of refugees from Detroit who were causing most of the problems.
 
2014-01-09 02:05:00 PM
Good.  Heaven forbid anyone has to do critical thinking and address each situation individually, right?  While were at it, can we get rid of No Child Left Behind too?
 
2014-01-09 02:05:47 PM

Fano: iaazathot: Shadi: African-American students without disabilities are over three times more likely than their white peers to receive suspensions or expulsions, for instance.

Obviously that means school rules are racially biased...

Obviously that means that blacks cause all the crime, right?  fark you asshole.

I thought zero tolerance was supposed to even the playing field by getting rid of "kids will be kids" leniency in the case of privileged white boys


Nope.

Before zero tolerance, white boy might get a detention or short suspension. Enough to leave a trail if he did worse things later on.

With zero tolerance, teachers just ignore what the white boy does entirely.

White boy, speaking from first hand experience seeing people suspended for stuff that would have the teacher turn around real fast and tell me, "I didn't see that, ok?"
 
2014-01-09 02:07:54 PM
DOJ and DOE to US schools: Okay, time to knock off this "Zero tolerance" crap, and FFS stop having kids arrested for assault and battery every time they shoot a spitball at a teacher, mmm'kay?

From the declaration:
"...may be racially biased."

So only stop if they're black. Arresting a white kid for pointing his finger and going pew pew pew is still all good. As is detaining a 5yr old holding an "L" shaped poptart (as long as he's white)

How about we stop making race part of everything.
 
2014-01-09 02:34:26 PM

meyerkev: iaazathot: So, the whites are causing crime too, but blacks cause all the crime?

Whites may or may not have been committing all the crime.  I wouldn't know because they could keep farking quiet.
Blacks were being dumb enough to commit loud, visible crime and then brag about it in front of cops.

As long as enough black people to show up on statistics brag about it in front of cops, there will be more blacks in jail.

/Seriously, I had a kid rip my backpack off my back and steal $50.
//Didn't know about the $50 bit until a week later when he bragged about it in front of cops, and I got called down to the office to collect my $50 back.
///Like I'm honestly not mad.  I'm legitimately impressed.  He had my backpack for maybe 30 seconds and figured out which pocket my "Oh Crap" money was in (and the entire point of that money is that you forget it's there until "Oh crap, I need $20 for gas.  I wonder if I have any money in my pockets.  Oh, I do."), and stole it while I was watching and chasing after him.  That's impressive.


Had a discussion along similar lines with a black coworker, and he mentioned that while lots of blacks commit crimes, you only ever see serial killers that are white. I told him "That's because they're smart enough to get away with it for 15 years, and not post a rap video about cappin' some dude's ass on youtube like your brother Leroy"  That's when he decided to rage quit the converstation and conceed my point.

/I have no idea if he had a brother named Leory who was arrested for cappin' a dude's ass and rapping about it on Youtube. Maybe I just got really really lucky.
 
2014-01-09 03:15:00 PM
I have said it many times.

The communities whose schools have such policies must band together to destroy the careers of the administrators responsible for this shiat.

They shouldn't just be shamed on Fark. They should never be able to run a school again.
 
2014-01-09 03:19:01 PM

OnlyM3: DOJ and DOE to US schools: Okay, time to knock off this "Zero tolerance" crap, and FFS stop having kids arrested for assault and battery every time they shoot a spitball at a teacher, mmm'kay?
From the declaration:
"...may be racially biased."

So only stop if they're black. Arresting a white kid for pointing his finger and going pew pew pew is still all good. As is detaining a 5yr old holding an "L" shaped poptart (as long as he's white)

How about we stop making race part of everything.


Statistically there is evidence to support the racial bias but the article and the declaration cite and discusse many other reasons why Zero Tolerance is damaging to school and kids regardless of race and it is explicitly stated that use of police action for minor transgressions is something they would like to stop.

How about we stop getting defensive every time someone suggests racial bias and just read the article?
 
2014-01-09 03:25:54 PM

buzzcut73: tarheel07: Out-of-school suspension for absenteeism? Why, thanks, principal!

This. I got a OOS suspension for skipping class once, way back in the early '90s. When the principal called my mom to let her know that I was being suspended, you could hear her eyes rolling over the phone at the lack of logic displayed in that policy.


Really?  I was in high school at the same time.  We would skip afternoon classes to go golfing.  All we got was a stern talking-to and a "next time invite me along" by the vice principal.
 
2014-01-09 03:41:25 PM
Isn't this the exact opposite of making bullying a federal priority?
ChrisB.
 
2014-01-09 03:44:52 PM
img.fark.net
 
2014-01-09 03:48:52 PM

DocPeabody: Well, at least someone is. So many administrators and teachers are so full of themselves that they think there on some sort of great crusade of protecting the children. Kind of shakes up that world when the Department of Justice comes in and tells them their actually batshiat crazy


Um... the Dept O Justice telling you that your methods are unsound is like your crack dealer handing you a flyer for a drug treatment program.
 
2014-01-09 03:53:56 PM
Fine. Let the teachers protect themselves instead of having to call the cops every time a kid gets rough.
 
2014-01-09 04:07:34 PM

Cyno01: Gee, these administrators who we pay 6 figure salaries to and are sucking up the lions share of our education budget (nearly the highest in the world per pupil) should be expected to use common sense and their own judgment instead of just blindly following broad policies voted on by committee following actuarial recommendations with no exceptions for specific circumstances?


Nonsense. If we have a problem with our administrators, it just means we aren't paying them enough. That is how it works, get more money -> better at job.
 
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