If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(SFGate)   Dead girl's condition improving, says lawyer   (sfgate.com) divider line 87
    More: Asinine, Jahi McMath, Arden McMath, feeding tube  
•       •       •

11775 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Jan 2014 at 2:09 PM (45 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2014-01-09 02:34:49 PM  
16 votes:
ok - I have actually been following this (happening in my neck of the woods) and a couple of things:

1. this was NOT a "routine operation" - as Dallymo said, she had an adenotonsillectomy, uvulopalatopharyngoplasty and submucous resection of bilateral inferior turbinates to deal with her sleep apnea (the family has never said why they didn't try to treat this with weight loss or other non-surgical procedures, like the use of a CPAP mask - an aggressive operation like this on a child is usually the last resort)

2. The family has been told repeatedly by 6 different doctors that she is brain dead (and that one does not "recover" from brain death)

3. The family's lawyer has repeatedly lied about the existence of facilities willing to accept and care for a corpse - the last one he claimed to express interest was out of NY run by a former beautician who claims this corpse just needs time to heal.

4. Post op - this family was in the room encouraging the girl to speak, eat and drink (specifically forbidden by the doctors as it might rupture her delicate stitches); additionally the grandmother admits suctioning blood out of the girl's mouth in post op but claimed it was ok - she knew what she was doing because she's a nurse (she's an LVN and has repeatedly exaggerated her licensing and training in the local media)

5. The family created a go fund me page for transport and treatment of this corpse (last I read they had over $50k in donations)

6. At least one doctor has testified that due to the brain inactivity (both brain and brain stem) the corpse is no longer regulating food, etc. (no reason it needs a feeding tube) and that the inside of the bowels are starting to slough off through stools.

Bottom line - this family is beyond grieving - they are parasitic scum who want to raise money for "the care" of their dead kid - they are playing on right to lifer's ignorance.  I just wonder how long they'll keep this charade up as the corpse is already starting to decay (under the skin and in the vital organs) and should be smelling funny soon. And really, you can buy a lot of neat stuff with $50k...

I know I went a little overboard but the news media just isn't reporting this properly (sorry)
2014-01-09 10:42:59 AM  
8 votes:
Three doctors determined Jahi is dead due to brain death, but her family believes that she is alive because her heart and lungs are functioning.

If they are only functioning due to medical assistance from ventilators, can it really be said that they're working?
2014-01-09 02:28:24 PM  
7 votes:

g4lt: Well, although the kid's a vegetable, I can't help thinking that the hospital that CAUSED THE FARKING BRAIN DEATH shouldn't have any more say in the care decisions, no matter how logical they're being.


All surgeries carry risks, and any time you have surgery, you sign all kinds of shiat saying you understand the risks. Bad outcomes can occur if everything goes absolutely correctly. The body is not a machine. The child was obese, which probably contributed to the necessity of the surgery if not to the poor outcome. We do not have all the information as to the girl's condition (we do not know if a CPap was tried and failed, or if this surgery was to avoid or terminate the use of a CPap)  but we do know that the child was given invasive surgery to treat her sleep apnea instead of being made to lose weight as a treatment. Her parents allowed her to become obese which is a known contributing factor for sleep apnea, the condition that the surgery was supposed to treat.

There have also been reports (and I can't find confirmation but it was mentioned in past threads) that her parents fed her solid foods which she was not allowed to have post-op.

tl/dr : There is no evidence at this time that a medical mistake was made.
2014-01-09 02:21:46 PM  
7 votes:

g4lt: Well, although the kid's a vegetable, I can't help thinking that the hospital that CAUSED THE FARKING BRAIN DEATH shouldn't have any more say in the care decisions, no matter how logical they're being.


as opposed to the parents who allowed their child to become so dangerously overweight that she needed a very risky surgery to keep from choking to death on herself in the night?
2014-01-09 12:33:25 PM  
7 votes:

RexTalionis: Three doctors determined Jahi is dead due to brain death, but her family believes that she is alive because her heart and lungs are functioning.

If they are only functioning due to medical assistance from ventilators, can it really be said that they're working?


No. Her parents just can't let her go.
Very sad.
2014-01-09 10:18:06 AM  
7 votes:
Just an awful situation.  No winners here.
2014-01-09 02:42:21 PM  
6 votes:

g4lt: Well, although the kid's a vegetable, I can't help thinking that the hospital that CAUSED THE FARKING BRAIN DEATH shouldn't have any more say in the care decisions, no matter how logical they're being.


Ms. McMath is not a "vegetable". A "vegetable", or someone in a persistent vegetative state, is alive. Ms. McMath is deceased.

Additionally, the cause of death is unknown, as the family's irrational insistence that the deceased Ms. McMath is alive has prevented any autopsy to determine the cause of death. Some information suggests that Ms. McMath's family encouraged her to talk very soon after her operation, in violation of post-operation instructions, and Ms. McMath's grandmother stated in an interview that she attempted to suction Ms. McMath's throat when bleeding began, which may have worsened the condition.

An anecdotal account claims that Ms. McMath was even given solid food by a family member after the surgery, but that remains entirely unverified (and, unfortunately, it cannot be verified now).
2014-01-09 02:38:47 PM  
6 votes:
Mitch Taylor's Bro:
Like I said, my parents were there. My sister's brain was probably in better shape, but she had serious internal injuries, too. After three days of the news progressively getting worse, the doctor recommended pulling the plug and my parents agreed.

Just a little over a year ago I had to make an end of life decision for a friend. He was on a respirator, bleeding uncontrollably and an unstoppable mould infection was literally eating his lungs up. He was kept in a medical coma because he would be in unbearable pain otherwise.

As one of his best friends and his primary care giver we had discussed this eventuality. He was on a waiting list for a lung transplant but it just never came. I knew more than anything he would not want to have to live out what remaining time he had left slowly dying on a respirator. I called his closest friends and family into the hospital to say their goodbyes then ordered the doctors to discontinue life support. They disconnected the respirator and at that moment their entire focus was on keeping him comfortable. He never regained consciousness and passed away while his son and I stayed with him.

The reason I was his power of attorney was because he didn't want his kids to have to be the ones to give the order to terminate his life support and that's a very good idea. Even though I knew what I was doing was for the best, that it was his wishes, and that I would want the same thing done to me if I were in his place it was still the hardest thing I have ever had to do in my life. I can't even begin to imagine how much more difficult it would have to be to make the same decision for one of my children.

But I know that's what my children would want to, and my children know that's what I would want. These are discussions everyone should have with their family. Let everyone know what your final care wishes are and even better write them down. Give them to a lawyer. Put them in a will.

I can't fault the parents here, but their daughter is already gone. The only thankful thing is there's not enough of her brain left to even be aware of suffering. Their daughter lives only in their memories now and what's left in that hospital is essentially just a pet nervous system.

This is just a sad, terrible story all around.

And if there's any justice the first politician who tries to capitalise on this for political gain will die from explosive genital rot.
2014-01-09 02:30:42 PM  
6 votes:

nekom: Just an awful situation.  No winners here.



Actually there may be winners if the family would face reality and let her go.  There have to be dozens of sick children who could use her perfectly good organs and tissues out there who could benefit if they would accept she can't come back and give consent to donate her organs.  That way their daughter could live on in some capacity or at least more so than having a machine work her remains for a few weeks or months until infection or something else finally destroys her lungs and heart.  I know it is tough, but her family is spitting in the faces of those families who actually have a chance of saving their children from something curable.  I just hope that Jahi's family changes their mind before its too late to have some benefit (assuming we haven't already reached that point that the organs have degraded to such an extent as to be non-viable).
2014-01-09 02:40:46 PM  
5 votes:

shut_it_down: This case is a goldmine for the lawyers and the family, but it's important that her future medical bills are astronomical in order to reap the maximum benefits.


The family could actually be ruining their chances for a successful lawsuit.  The evidence of this case is the body and it's slowly being destroyed.  If a proper autopsy can't be preformed, how is the fmaily going to prove a case against the hospital and doctors?  Also, the defendants could make a case that any evidence found in a autopsy could have been the result of procedures performed after they turned over control of the corpse.
2014-01-09 01:49:10 PM  
5 votes:
This is happening in my neck o'the woods, so I get frequent updates on it. This sad situation is a direct result of faith trumping science (mother has been quoted as saying, "I know my daughter is alive! I just know it!) and a convoluted legal system that prevents the hospital from discussing their side with the family or the family's lawyers because the case is still open. They also can't address the media, because the family's lawyers have advised them to enforce privacy laws, rather than have a public discussion. Then, the family says, "They won't tell us how this happened!!!!" and the hospital says "They won't let us tell you what's going on!!!" So it's just a big clusterfark.

Having seen my parents deal with this sort of incredibly difficult decision after my sister was in a serious car accident, believe me, I feel for the parents. But they're just delaying the inevitable for no reason other than "becuz mraclez!!!" Unlike the Schiavo case, there isn't even a legal reason to keep her alive. That poor girl should be with God right now :-(
2014-01-09 01:16:33 PM  
5 votes:

xanadian: So, I must've missed the article that explained how a f*#%ing routine operation like a tonsillectomy turned this girl into a vegetable.  Too much blood loss?  Crazy-ass brain-eating infection?  God was at His computer that day?


Adenotonsillectomy, uvulopalatopharyngoplasty and submucous resection of bilateral inferior turbinates.  Too much blood loss post-op.
2014-01-09 02:57:29 PM  
4 votes:
lennavan:  I just don't get the mentality of older people who seem full of life saying "just let me go."  Maybe it's because I'm not religious -- this is all we get.

You live, you have a family, you have a career, you watch your kids grow and have families of their own, friends come into your life, friends go out of your life and if in your golden years you can say "You know, I've had a pretty damned good run if I go now I've got nothing to complain about".

And if you're living in a home with people who are on their last lap and you watch them all go before you and you realize some of them go bad. They have a stroke, or a heart attack that leaves them a mere shadow of what they were and linger on until the inevitable. They watch people suffer dementia and have everything they were stolen from them bit by bit until only a raving stranger is left inhabiting their body. Well a person can get to thinking there are worse things than living a good life and then dropping dead from a heart attack, much worse things. I've had a damn good run.
2014-01-09 02:31:04 PM  
4 votes:

thatboyoverthere: Also fark the hospital. "We accidentally killed your daughter so we're going to pull the plug on her LOL!"
/I feel for the family. Personally I would pull the plug but it's up to them.
//My mother says they would have pulled the plug eventually but the hospital decided now. So the family is never going to pull the plug just out of sheer defiance.
/// Also fark the hospital.


Pretty sure the hospital isn't LOLing about this. Mistakes DO happen, and they are going to have one hell of a malpractice suit on their hands, but the decision to take her off the ventilator was confirmed by multiple doctors, including a court-appointed neurologist.
2014-01-09 02:09:10 PM  
4 votes:

Mitch Taylor's Bro: This is happening in my neck o'the woods, so I get frequent updates on it. This sad situation is a direct result of faith trumping science (mother has been quoted as saying, "I know my daughter is alive! I just know it!) and a convoluted legal system that prevents the hospital from discussing their side with the family or the family's lawyers because the case is still open. They also can't address the media, because the family's lawyers have advised them to enforce privacy laws, rather than have a public discussion. Then, the family says, "They won't tell us how this happened!!!!" and the hospital says "They won't let us tell you what's going on!!!" So it's just a big clusterfark.

Having seen my parents deal with this sort of incredibly difficult decision after my sister was in a serious car accident, believe me, I feel for the parents. But they're just delaying the inevitable for no reason other than "becuz mraclez!!!" Unlike the Schiavo case, there isn't even a legal reason to keep her alive. That poor girl should be with God right now :-(


If you believe in the concept of a soul that can exist separately from the body, and you believe that brain dead is dead and keeping the blood circulating does not mean "alive," then it can be argued that this child's soul has already discorporated and is already wherever it goes when the earthly body dies.

This is torture for the family, not the child who is already dead. And f*ck everyone who is leading them to believe differently.
2014-01-09 01:32:30 PM  
4 votes:
And by "improving" we mean we've stabilized her condition so we can keep riding this cash potato indefinitely. Ka-ching! Ka-ching!

Or at least until the insurance company pulls the plug.
2014-01-09 12:39:47 PM  
4 votes:
Bob Falfa:
No. Her parents just can't let her go.
Very sad.


It is, but I'm not in any position to pass judgment, and god help me I don't ever want to be in such a position.  Grief can lead to irrational behavior.  Every scientific and medical opinion is that her brain is goo, she's already dead, not even the slightest chance of a recovery.  The family aren't doctors or scientists, all they hear is "Well, she's in bad shape, but you never know!"

It's just a shiatty situation all around.
2014-01-09 08:37:28 PM  
3 votes:
Look, the parent killed their kid being bad parents.  You think they're going to change now?
2014-01-09 04:58:32 PM  
3 votes:
What confuses me is why is it always the people who supposedly believe in a wonderful afterlife who have so much trouble letting a loved one who is obviously past this earth go?
2014-01-09 04:03:53 PM  
3 votes:
I had a friend back in high school who was hit by a car.  After a day and a half they determined that there was blood actively flowing to less than a third of his brain.  His parents - god, his poor parents - had a long talk with the doctors about not only what his chances of survival were, but what, exactly, constituted "survival" in his case.  And at the end of that talk, they said their goodbyes, ordered the cessation of life support, and signed the papers to donate his organs.

Years later, I heard them explain their reasoning: that even though there was a chance that he would ultimately remain physically (and legally) alive, the damage to his brain was so extensive that the bright, ephemeral thing that made Charles  Charles was already gone.  Their son was not defined by his body, but by his sense of humor, his kindness, his curiosity, his dedication and honesty.  The body could have lived on, but the essence of their son was dead.

He was their only child.

/talking about Charles always kicks up the dust
2014-01-09 02:33:13 PM  
3 votes:

maltedmothball: nekom: Just an awful situation. No winners here.

sure there's a winner, the scumbag lawyers bank account

/no offence meant to scumbags


The sad fact is that when they sue the doctors and hospital, they will argue that she has to be on a ventilator and feeding tube for the rest of her "life" and they'd probably get experts to argue that this would cost like $500k a year times what, 50 years?  So then the hospital has to pay that amount of money up front plus money for pain and suffering, plus wrongful death and any other survivor actions because it will be hard to argue that they didn't do something wrong.  Then the lawyers take their third, and then the girl "dies" anyway because she's already dead and all those future medical bills that got built into the settlement never have to be paid because they're gonna have a funeral instead.  This case is a goldmine for the lawyers and the family, but it's important that her future medical bills are astronomical in order to reap the maximum benefits.
2014-01-09 02:22:01 PM  
3 votes:

Ambitwistor: Was she transferred to a better hospital where her condition was upgraded to "alive"?


Heard on the radio the other day: The transfer paperwork was filled out for the transfer of a corpse.
2014-01-09 02:19:37 PM  
3 votes:

nekom: Just an awful situation.  No winners here.


sure there's a winner, the scumbag lawyers bank account

/no offence meant to scumbags
2014-01-09 02:19:22 PM  
3 votes:

nekom: But again, it's really hard to point fingers at a grieving family who refuses to accept this fact.


Not really. This family is just getting bad advice. People are dangling false hope in front of them instead of reality, and they're taking the bait because that's easier than facing facts.

Like I said, my parents were there. My sister's brain was probably in better shape, but she had serious internal injuries, too. After three days of the news progressively getting worse, the doctor recommended pulling the plug and my parents agreed.

The saddest farking thing in the world is a parent burying their child. But sometimes you have to do what's best, not what's easiest.

/ great, now my allergies are acting up at work. stupid, misty, red eyes.
2014-01-09 02:18:30 PM  
3 votes:
Well, although the kid's a vegetable, I can't help thinking that the hospital that CAUSED THE FARKING BRAIN DEATH shouldn't have any more say in the care decisions, no matter how logical they're being.
2014-01-09 02:15:36 PM  
3 votes:
This is one area where I'm actually actively opposed to religion(and any sort of non-religious dualists), rather than just "meh".  Stop pretending there's a "soul" that's separate from the brain.  This belief is causing real harm to actual people.
2014-01-09 01:40:32 PM  
3 votes:
I feel bad for the family, but this is getting grotesque and really needs to stop.
2014-01-09 09:58:30 AM  
3 votes:
So, only mostly dead? It's going to take a miracle.
2014-01-09 10:08:59 PM  
2 votes:
I hope Fark continues greening threads about this.. Some good dark humor here and there but it has been a interesting thread with a lot of great discussion.
2014-01-09 04:52:09 PM  
2 votes:
She got fat and was killed from eating too many burgers.  She developed sleep apnea because of it, so instead of her family changing her eating habits they scheduled her for a tonsillectomy, the removal of part of her soft palette, trimmed her sinuses to "cure" her sleep apnea, then promptly fed her bites of their burgers while she was in the recovery room, breaking the stitches and causing her to bleed out, thus coming full circle back to the irresponsibility of feeding that girl hamburgers way too farking often.

As Butters would say: "OH hamburgers!"

/mmmmmm burgers
2014-01-09 04:05:44 PM  
2 votes:
I'm starting to see the types who probably "donated" money to keep her alive.

i.imgur.com
2014-01-09 03:40:32 PM  
2 votes:

JohnTuttle: nekom: it was also to remove tissue to treat sleep apnea

Well, screw getting that surgery. I'll stick with having air forced down my nose every night, thankyouverymuch.


My dad got the surgery, and after hearing how painful it was, I'm glad to be breathing with a machine at night.
2014-01-09 03:39:29 PM  
2 votes:
Collection of a few posts here:

So the brain is dead and the body can no longer process food but the new hospital has placed a feeding tube in her.

Does this sound like a problem to anyone?
2014-01-09 03:04:13 PM  
2 votes:

Girl On Couch: 1. this was NOT a "routine operation" - as Dallymo said, she had an adenotonsillectomy, uvulopalatopharyngoplasty and submucous resection of bilateral inferior turbinates to deal with her sleep apnea (the family has never said why they didn't try to treat this with weight loss or other non-surgical procedures, like the use of a CPAP mask - an aggressive operation like this on a child is usually the last resort)

2. The family has been told repeatedly by 6 different doctors that she is brain dead (and that one does not "recover" from brain death)

3. The family's lawyer has repeatedly lied about the existence of facilities willing to accept and care for a corpse - the last one he claimed to express interest was out of NY run by a former beautician who claims this corpse just needs time to heal.

4. Post op - this family was in the room encouraging the girl to speak, eat and drink (specifically forbidden by the doctors as it might rupture her delicate stitches); additionally the grandmother admits suctioning blood out of the girl's mouth in post op but claimed it was ok - she knew what she was doing because she's a nurse (she's an LVN and has repeatedly exaggerated her licensing and training in the local media)

5. The family created a go fund me page for transport and treatment of this corpse (last I read they had over $50k in donations)

6. At least one doctor has testified that due to the brain inactivity (both brain and brain stem) the corpse is no longer regulating food, etc. (no reason it needs a feeding tube) and that the inside of the bowels are starting to slough off through stools.

Bottom line - this family is beyond grieving - they are parasitic scum who want to raise money for "the care" of their dead kid - they are playing on right to lifer's ignorance. I just wonder how long they'll keep this charade up as the corpse is already starting to decay (under the skin and in the vital organs) and should be smelling funny soon. And really, you can ...


Much of this bears repeating. It's frustrating to see so many of the details being glossed over and dumbed down by the media, because a lot of people are coming away from the articles grossly disinformed.
2014-01-09 02:36:47 PM  
2 votes:
kardsunlimited.com

Dr. Henry Jones, Jr, pictured above, offered a different opinion, stating "She belongs in a mausoleum!"
2014-01-09 02:30:10 PM  
2 votes:
Fark this family for wasting valuable medical resources on a hopeless cause rather then allow those resources to be used on people who actually have a chance
2014-01-09 02:28:12 PM  
2 votes:

g4lt: Well, although the kid's a vegetable, I can't help thinking that the hospital that CAUSED THE FARKING BRAIN DEATH shouldn't have any more say in the care decisions, no matter how logical they're being.


There is no such thing as a no-risk surgery, and even if the family claims that they weren't told of the risks, you can bet they signed paperwork informing them otherwise.

And this is not a care decision. It's a decision on what to do with a dead body.
2014-01-09 02:24:32 PM  
2 votes:

thatboyoverthere: Also fark the hospital. "We accidentally killed your daughter so we're going to pull the plug on her LOL!"


g4lt: Well, although the kid's a vegetable, I can't help thinking that the hospital that CAUSED THE FARKING BRAIN DEATH shouldn't have any more say in the care decisions, no matter how logical they're being.


These statements make absolutely no sense to me. The kid's dead. Regardless of what the circumstances of her death were, what exactly is the benefit to anybody of keeping a corpse on life support? Do we dig up murder victims and force criminals to pay for their dialysis and skin treatments?
2014-01-09 02:21:37 PM  
2 votes:

Dallymo: xanadian: So, I must've missed the article that explained how a f*#%ing routine operation like a tonsillectomy turned this girl into a vegetable.  Too much blood loss?  Crazy-ass brain-eating infection?  God was at His computer that day?

Adenotonsillectomy, uvulopalatopharyngoplasty and submucous resection of bilateral inferior turbinates.  Too much blood loss post-op.


In layman's terms: They reamed out half her throat and hit (probably) a carotid artery. By the time they could plug it, it was all over.
2014-01-09 01:54:25 PM  
2 votes:

Mitch Taylor's Bro: Unlike the Schiavo case, there isn't even a legal reason to keep her alive. That poor girl should be with God right now :-(


Schiavo is a whole different can of worms.  She was in a persistent vegetative state, that whole thing was highly debatable.  This poor girl is flat out absolutely brain dead and her brain tissue has probably already started to deteriorate.  There is absolutely not even a 1 in a trillion chance of a miracle.  To bring her back would be in all ways bringing back the dead.

But again, it's really hard to point fingers at a grieving family who refuses to accept this fact.
2014-01-09 01:13:11 PM  
2 votes:
The reason the new facility insisted on the trach and feeding tube is ease of care, and that's it. It will make it easier for them to keep her corpse warm.

This sucks. I hope her heart gives out very, very soon. Like, today. No good can come from keeping her... there isn't a word, really. Certainly not "alive."
2014-01-09 12:47:09 PM  
2 votes:

RexTalionis: Three doctors determined Jahi is dead due to brain death, but her family believes that she is alive because her heart and lungs are functioning.

If they are only functioning due to medical assistance from ventilators, can it really be said that they're working?


I believe I read it somewhere that her heart and lungs are still working without medical intervention due to the autonomic responses in those organs.  But her brain is flat line.  She is on vents to assist breathing, and what's keeping her alive really is the feeding tubes.

It is extremely sad and tragic, but she's gone.  It's time to pull the plugs and let her go the rest of the way in peace.  I know there have been instances where people in a coma have come back after many years.  But those people haven't been flat  line.  We know you love her, but let her die in peace.  Without a circus.
2014-01-09 12:41:02 PM  
2 votes:

czetie: So, only mostly dead? It's going to take a miracle.


Approves
img.fark.net
2014-01-10 01:18:53 PM  
1 votes:

BizarreMan: Compare and contrast Jahi McMath with Marlise Munoz


1) Marlise is not being kept alive. Her corpse is being kept warm in an attempt to keep the fetus alive to viability. No one is under any misconceptions that she herself will be alive at the end of it.

2) The family is completely realistic about the outcome. They understand that the mother has died. They do not believe the baby to be viable even if the mother's blood circulates for another ten weeks without too many body parts falling off. They want corpse support removed.

3) The state is being ignorant about the baby's chance of survival. But hey, Texas. Not known for rational thought where science is concerned.

So basically, apples and oranges except that they are both warm corpses.
2014-01-09 10:12:24 PM  
1 votes:

Cagey B: thatboyoverthere: Also fark the hospital. "We accidentally killed your daughter so we're going to pull the plug on her LOL!"

g4lt: Well, although the kid's a vegetable, I can't help thinking that the hospital that CAUSED THE FARKING BRAIN DEATH shouldn't have any more say in the care decisions, no matter how logical they're being.

These statements make absolutely no sense to me. The kid's dead. Regardless of what the circumstances of her death were, what exactly is the benefit to anybody of keeping a corpse on life support? Do we dig up murder victims and force criminals to pay for their dialysis and skin treatments?


The mother is hanging on to the idea that "because her heart is beating, we know she's alive." (as near an actual quote as I can recall without looking it up) The whole family is basically endorsing that idea, that as long as she is "breathing" and her heart is "beating" that she's alive and needs to be "given a chance to recover" (all near-quotes I've heard on news reports).

I don't know if this family is uber-religious, or if mom is just in ultra-denial that a 13-year old girl is now a meat-sack; but it's not the hospital, or the lawyers or anyone else. Nearly everyone except the family and their own attorneys are insisting this child is dead and needs to be let go; but the parents and family are insisting she's "alive" and they want to give her "every opportunity" to survive. The hospital is not making any money off this, and the place that accepted her body had to go through all kinds of legal hoops to accept her--they didn't want her either.

it's very sad.
2014-01-09 09:51:28 PM  
1 votes:
It's a hamburger now?  I was reading something similar in another comment section only there someone was (admittedly) speculating that the family give her comfort food.  We will never know if it happened because if it did, nobody will ever admit it.  It's plausible though.  With the way the mom is acting I can see it as a reaction to wanting to distance oneself from the blame (if that is what happened).

Again, not saying it did happened so back off if your about to go all crazy on me for this.  I'm just saying I can easily see how it could happen and it's an interesting talking point.  The girl was overweight, there are plenty of families that turn to food for comfort and it would explain why 3 days after the procedure something went horribly wrong.  It wouldn't be the first time somebody snuck in food to a hospital.  Hell, when I had my appendix out my family snuck me in food.  I'm sure plenty of people here have had the same experience.  It's a very human thing to do.
2014-01-09 09:38:03 PM  
1 votes:

walktoanarcade: styckx: walktoanarcade: styckx: This hamburger thing needs a huge "CITATION NEEDED".. It's only on blogs and shiatty conspiracy sites..  Where did this hamburger thing spawn from? No one seems to know.

Sometimes stuff happens and it isn't caught on video, or it is on video and gets lost.

Or like others have mentioned, the witnesses are shutting up because it's getting lawsuity.

Did you know that there's a TV version of Star Wars where Luke says: "Blast it, *Wedge, where are you?"?
If you disbelieve it, it's your loss, however I do agree I can't prove it without a copy.
/right not biggs

I'm not ridculing anyone.. Or saying people are making it up. I just hate having a talking point that I can't point to a credible place to validate what I say..   I mean, if the hamburger story is true.. Someone had to talk about.. Where is this talking about it?  Where is that? It had to stem from somewhere and I just keep scratching my head trying to figure it out..  Someone had to report on it or it wouldn't be comment section gossip.. Who reported on it?

No, it's OK, didn't seem like you were making fun at all. You're right to demand credible sources, I'm in the same boat as you;it's hard to know if it's plausible sounding BS, or if some hospital employee jotted it down on their cell phone(as in started the blog comments). Or something similar.

All of you getting extremely angry(not saying you specifically) over this ought to become journalists because this country needs people that care to ask the right questions.


/the star wars comment is truthful


We need to hire one of those meme sites.. Who somehow, someway, manage to find out the very first mentioning of a shiatty meme some 4 years back in some obscure thread on reddit or  a 4chan archive.
2014-01-09 08:58:29 PM  
1 votes:

styckx: I'm morbidly waiting for this girls heart to finally stop so the real fun begins.. The more and more I read.. The more and more my spidey senses tingle..  I think this family is in for a rude awakening.


Terri Schiavo's family still insists that she was conscious and not in a PVS and could see and interact with them even though the autopsy showed that she was blind and a third of her brain was liquefied.

NEVER underestimate teh power of denial.


And for those of you wondering why I am so livid about all of this... it's WRONG. It's WRONG for her parents to act like this. They're like spoiled brats who never listened to anything and now they've killed their kid because of it and they can't even take responsibility for the FACT that the kid is dead, much less the part they may or may not have played. They're creating a dangerous legal precedent. And I know that not everyone can take college level classes about health and the body, but I run into so much ignorance every day (my in laws keep telling me about a friend with "neck cancer"...) that it's just hard to take sometimes. And this one is really hard to take because there's just no need, no excuse, no reason for this to be drawn out this long.
2014-01-09 08:47:02 PM  
1 votes:

thatboyoverthere: Also fark the hospital. "We accidentally killed your daughter so we're going to pull the plug on her LOL!"
/I feel for the family. Personally I would pull the plug but it's up to them.
//My mother says they would have pulled the plug eventually but the hospital decided now. So the family is never going to pull the plug just out of sheer defiance.
/// Also fark the hospital.


Witnesses in the PICU said that this family were absolute beasts before she had complications.
BTW, you dont just end up in the PICU if you are low risk...just saying.
They came in many (The number used was 14) at a time even though it was suppose to be 1 visitor per PICU patient. The nurses ended up trying to wrangle that mess.
They mother and grandmother were feeding her bigmac's even though you are not suppose to eat anything.
When she started bleeding a little the mother, grandmother, stepfather and the girl herself were suctioning her throat causing further bleeding and removing more of the scabs/clots/sutures.
It was after them doing these things that the bleeding really went crazy and out of control. It was described as "waterfall like" by one witness.
Do a search for the eye witnesses...many of them have stopped talking about it for legal reasons.
Not saying the hospital is does not share a blame, but the family IMO is the primary cause of this poor girls death.

Girl On Couch: ok - I have actually been following this (happening in my neck of the woods) and a couple of things:

1. this was NOT a "routine operation" - as Dallymo said, she had an adenotonsillectomy, uvulopalatopharyngoplasty and submucous resection of bilateral inferior turbinates to deal with her sleep apnea (the family has never said why they didn't try to treat this with weight loss or other non-surgical procedures, like the use of a CPAP mask - an aggressive operation like this on a child is usually the last resort)

2. The family has been told repeatedly by 6 different doctors that she is brain dead (and that one does not "recover" from brain death)

3. The family's lawyer has repeatedly lied about the existence of facilities willing to accept and care for a corpse - the last one he claimed to express interest was out of NY run by a former beautician who claims this corpse just needs time to heal.

4. Post op - this family was in the room encouraging the girl to speak, eat and drink (specifically forbidden by the doctors as it might rupture her delicate stitches); additionally the grandmother admits suctioning blood out of the girl's mouth in post op but claimed it was ok - she knew what she was doing because she's a nurse (she's an LVN and has repeatedly exaggerated her licensing and training in the local media)

5. The family created a go fund me page for transport and treatment of this corpse (last I read they had over $50k in donations)

6. At least one doctor has testified that due to the brain inactivity (both brain and brain stem) the corpse is no longer regulating food, etc. (no reason it needs a feeding tube) and that the inside of the bowels are starting to slough off through stools.

Bottom line - this family is beyond grieving - they are parasitic scum who want to raise money for "the care" of their dead kid - they are playing on right to lifer's ignorance.  I just wonder how long they'll keep this charade up as the corpse is already starting to decay (under ...


I have been following this closely too...its like a wreck...I just cant turn away.
Here is the supplemental court document discussing her decomposition.
http://media.nbcbayarea.com/documents/HeidiFlori.pdf
2014-01-09 08:27:58 PM  
1 votes:

walktoanarcade: Bunny Deville: So I discussed this with the husband, and he had a more sinister take on this case.

If the family DID feed Jahi, and if the grandmother DID suction her when she bled, then they could be held accountable for this if the hospital has proof... and if Jahi is, in fact, dead... well, it's in their best interests to keep that heart beating as long as humanly possible.

If we do have souls, I hope hers is free.

She's got a death certificate. If they were to be held liable, it could legally happen at any time...right?

I don't pretend to know.


Delaying "death" (quotes because she's dead) and therefore the autopsy, would be in their benefit in that case. For example, there is no longer evidence of solid food in her digestive tract as there would have been if she had "died" (cessation of organ activity) right then and there. If this story of them feeding her is true, of course.

I try to not be a completely cynical person, but this occurred to me as well. Although it is also a rebuttal to the theory that the hospital wants to "kill" her all the way to hide their medical mistake. If her death was because of mistake or intentional stupidity, then the longer the autopsy is delayed, the harder it will be to prove. The hospital would benefit from keeping the corpse warm.
2014-01-09 07:20:50 PM  
1 votes:
If no one has posted this already, interesting blog from a trauma surgeon who has weighed in on the situation.  Interesting but definitely not safe for lunch medical stuff (text only, no NSFL/W pics or anything)

http://docbastard.blogspot.com/
2014-01-09 07:18:12 PM  
1 votes:
You'll never lose money exploiting the religious, gambling-addicted, or grief-stricken.

/not a complete list
2014-01-09 06:58:45 PM  
1 votes:

Rodeodoc: Lots on here about the parents getting $bazillions off a  law suit.  Can a CA farker confirm that California law caps malpractice awards at $250,000?  If that's the case, I'm thinking that the girl's stay in the new facility will suck that up in a month or so.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_Injury_Compensation_Reform_Act

The $250k is for non-economic damages.

The family's attorney, Christopher Dolan, is active in efforts to change MICRA, arguing that the $250k cap is unconstitutional.

http://www.protectconsumerjustice.org/how-the-micra-cap-violates-cal if ornians-rights-to-equal-protection-jury-trial-and-due-process.html

The emotional outcry and publicity this case is generating is a plus for his cause.
2014-01-09 06:31:57 PM  
1 votes:
i1105.photobucket.com
2014-01-09 05:24:59 PM  
1 votes:
I've been watching this case from the side lines with mild interest.  The question I have is who is paying to keep this corpse "alive" and what kind of factuality has she been transferred too?  If the family is paying for this out of their own pockets and the corpse isn't taking up valuable bed space in a hospital who gives a shait.  As long as they family pays to keep the machines on as far as I'm concerned they can do so till the corpse turns into goo.  An it will.  Death usually does that to things.

But if they are hoping for a miracle it would have been better for them to put their little snowflake in a vat of liquid nitrogen and pray that science can come up with a cure for brain death.   But then again god could send in tinkerbell to sprinkle her body with magic dust and bring her back to life.   Never can tell, I'm betting the odds are about even in both cases though.
2014-01-09 05:16:53 PM  
1 votes:
The hospital should pay exactly zero dollars and oodles of common sense to the family.

They need to receive both now. Won't you help? Operators are standing by.
2014-01-09 05:09:22 PM  
1 votes:

namegoeshere: When I picture this "miracle", I'm picturing a scene from Pet Sematary.


I don't want to be buried in a Pet Sematary, I don't want to live my life again.
2014-01-09 05:06:52 PM  
1 votes:
If she stays alive, the hospital could be on the hook for years, paying millions for her maintenance. If she dies, what's a fat black 13 year-old girl worth? One lump sum in the low six figures. Do the McMath.
2014-01-09 05:00:05 PM  
1 votes:

Girl On Couch: walktoanarcade: She got fat and was killed from eating too many burgers.  She developed sleep apnea because of it, so instead of her family changing her eating habits they scheduled her for a tonsillectomy, the removal of part of her soft palette, trimmed her sinuses to "cure" her sleep apnea, then promptly fed her bites of their burgers while she was in the recovery room, breaking the stitches and causing her to bleed out, thus coming full circle back to the irresponsibility of feeding that girl hamburgers way too farking often.

As Butters would say: "OH hamburgers!"

/mmmmmm burgers

Yeah - pretty much this.  Just need to add a dash of delusional injustice and denial of facts....

/family and friends were wearing and distributing "Justice for Jahi" t-shirts like she was freakin' Mandela or something....


So you think the hospital did enough documenting of the family disobeying hospital orders to protect them in a wrongful death lawsuit?  Seems like the family is not only grieving now.. But dealing with the guilt they probably killed their own kid through ignorance.
2014-01-09 04:37:53 PM  
1 votes:

styckx: What I want to know is..

How can a hospital full of trained professionals shove a feeding tube in a girl that digestive track... For lack of a better term is melting and no longer functioning..


That's just it - Children's Hospital of Oakland (the hospital that performed the surgery and subsequently declared her brain dead) refused to surgical implant both the feeding tube and the tracheostomy. They argued in court that the patient was dead and that it would be unethical for them to demand one of their physicians to perform these procedures.

Well, the family with their scumbag attorney's help flipped out and told the media that the hospital was trying to kill their child.  I'll see if I can find links a bit later but check out the San Jose Mercury News (mercurynews.com) for good, detailed coverage of this whole inane saga....
2014-01-09 04:33:25 PM  
1 votes:

g4lt: Well, although the kid's a vegetable, I can't help thinking that the hospital that CAUSED THE FARKING BRAIN DEATH shouldn't have any more say in the care decisions, no matter how logical they're being.


She had throat surgery after which her family was told they should not let her talk or eat solid food for a few days.   By the families own admission they spent the next day talking with her and brought her food to eat in the hospital.
2014-01-09 04:16:31 PM  
1 votes:

Girl On Couch: LemSkroob: linda7900: and yes, she hemorrhaged 3 days post-op while her family was visiting. the *rumor* is that the family had brought in some solid food for her, which caused her stitches to tear which led to the hemorrhage (and brain death).

I hope there is security camera footage, and they can arrest the parents for negligence and child endangerment.

Right now the hospital can't rebut or show any evidence like that due to HIPPA constraints.  So this family (and their scumbag attorney) has basically just had an open forum to make up their own reality....  It's really been weird to watch unfold.


I read in an article, not on Fark, that the hospital has basically said "we wish we could show you her charts/records, but HIPAA..."

I can't imagine what it would be like to lose a child, but when one of her attending physicians notes the presence of early rigor, it's time to let go.

I've seen bodies in various states of decomposition (yay internship); I wonder if they'll realize at skin slip/gas bloat stage?

Also, hasn't grandma gone from LPN to RN to CNA and back again in interviews? Why the fark was she suctioning blood in post-op?! Jesus FARK I would've been PISSED if I was the post-op RN!!

/pre-nursing student
2014-01-09 03:43:27 PM  
1 votes:

linda7900: and yes, she hemorrhaged 3 days post-op while her family was visiting. the *rumor* is that the family had brought in some solid food for her, which caused her stitches to tear which led to the hemorrhage (and brain death).


I hope there is security camera footage, and they can arrest the parents for negligence and child endangerment.
2014-01-09 03:41:15 PM  
1 votes:
Mystery Vortex:
Even a doctor or scientis might find themselves unable to let go of a daughter that had her whole life ahead of her.
This family doesn't need ridicule. Let them hold onto her body in that state as long as they need to. It's part of the grieving process and eventually they will be ready to turn off the machines. It's not like the girl is suffering in the meantime.


Well, that's the one saving grace here.  But it's still using a lot of medical resources on a total lost cause that could be better allocated to help someone who isn't quite literally dead.  As for whether this is better or worse for the family, I don't know.  Medically speaking this is absurd.  Emotionally speaking, who knows.
2014-01-09 03:40:01 PM  
1 votes:
Three doctors determined Jahi is dead due to brain death, but her family believes that she is alive because her heart and lungs are functioning

I'm guessing low education and lots of time spent in church.
2014-01-09 03:39:13 PM  
1 votes:

angry bunny: Girl On Couch:

Bottom line - this family is beyond grieving - they are parasitic scum who want to raise money for "the care" of their dead kid - they are playing on right to lifer's ignorance.  I just wonder how long they'll keep this charade up as the corpse is already starting to decay

So any attempt by parents of dead girl to hold on to hope makes them parasitic scum?  What if for the sake of argument we say that the hospital that performed the operation that ultimately led to the child's death has a monetary interest in seeing her die die (as opposed to just brain dead die).  You see if medical care is being provided for that child they may theoretically be liable to pay for every bit of that.  If she were to pass away entirely there would be no continuing cost of care to factor into a settlement.  Are they now parasitic scum that just want to save the inevitable lawsuit payment from having another zero attached to it?  You essentially present the exact same argument to condemn the parents in this action.  Why is the hospital getting a pass?

Let me help you out with question of whether the hospital or the family is full of fiends. the answer is likely NO.  Faulting these parents for making a decision based more on grief than rational thought might be ok, but saying that they are making a decision solely for financial gain is outrageous without one shred of evidence to corroborate that allegation.  Saying that a hospital is somehow conspiring to kill this child is also crazy town.  They might have farked up and here inevitable death may end up making that fark up cost far less than it would otherwise, but there's no conspiracy to kill kill (as opposed to just brain dead kill) this girl.

In conclusion, your assumption that a grieving family is a group of terrible humans is probably more an internal reflection upon the speaker than an objective assessment of the situation.


No - what makes them parasitic scum is that they are using their daughter's death with this obscene promise of "life" (and that's what it is) to raise money when they have to know full well she will NOT be making any sort of recovery.

To borrow an old phrase familiar to most Farkers: study it out....read the local news reports that have been coming in over the last month and see with your own eyes the deceptive and ridiculous circus environment they created with the help of their grifter attorney.
2014-01-09 03:30:10 PM  
1 votes:

RexTalionis: If they are only functioning due to medical assistance from ventilators, can it really be said that they're working?


The ventilator does the lungs, not the heart.  The heart is quite capable of functioning without any commands from the brain, though.  (It's better able to react to changes with the nerve connection but transplant patients don't have the nerve connection and yet live.)

I also would think she might do a bit better on a feeding tube rather than just a dextrose drip.  That says nothing about recovery, though.

Smoking GNU: "Three doctors determined Jahi is dead due to brain death, but her family believes that she is alive because her heart and lungs are functioning. The family won court approval to force Children's Hospital to keep Jahi connected to the ventilator and then to move her to a new facility that planned to give her a feeding tube and tracheostomy, which her family believes will give Jahi a chance for recovery. "

Recovery from brain death. Erm.... yeah.


I certainly hope she doesn't--that would be the start of the zombie apocalypse!

marsgwar: The family could actually be ruining their chances for a successful lawsuit. The evidence of this case is the body and it's slowly being destroyed. If a proper autopsy can't be preformed, how is the fmaily going to prove a case against the hospital and doctors? Also, the defendants could make a case that any evidence found in a autopsy could have been the result of procedures performed after they turned over control of the corpse.


No, it's the other way around.  A destroyed body is to their benefit so the eventual autopsy can't show what happened.  In a case like this the burden will be on the hospital to show there was nothing wrong rather than the family to show wrong.  Yeah, that's not how it's *supposed* to work.
2014-01-09 03:29:32 PM  
1 votes:
The circus came to town with this girl. People claiming the organ harvesters wanted to sell her body parts; the mother, believing that she's going to wake up; lawyers; grandma changing her story; idiots screaming that Jahi was mistreated because she's black. In the center is a sad, deteriorating mass of flesh that slowly rots away.

The bleedout occurred  during recovery, and according to early accounts, at home. Later accounts changed that to happening at the hospital.

All I know is that I wouldn't want to have to be taking care of the corpse.
2014-01-09 03:14:29 PM  
1 votes:

Sgt.Zim: Ghastly: And by "improving" we mean we've stabilized her condition so we can keep riding this cash potato indefinitely. Ka-ching! Ka-ching!

Or at least until the insurance company pulls the plug.

From another article I've read, they've got a donation fund going, and it's already well ahead.  She'll be kept ... functioning ... for quite some time.

It's sick; our "reverence for life" is way out of control.


Who the fark is donating all this cash to keep a corpse "alive"? That's even more sick.. What the hell is wrong with this country?
2014-01-09 03:14:08 PM  
1 votes:
My God, what a horror show. Does anyone else wonder if they just brought her home and we're watching a real-time re-enactment of "A Rose For Emily"? I can understand the family not wanting to let go; I can't imagine the shock and horror they must have gone through when their daughter collapsed and died. The cognitive dissonance in being told that someone is dead when they still look like they're breathing has got to be huge, especially since this wasn't a surgery known for being particularly dangerous. But the bottom-feeders who are encouraging them and confusing the issue with stories of people in comas and vegetative states who woke up ... I can't believe those people can look at themselves in the mirror. All they've done to this family is whip them into a state where instead of grieving and burying their daughter, they're going to watch her body decompose in front of them while trying to will her back to life. Whom does that help, exactly?

As I've said before, I'm probably 95% more pro-life than most of Fark, but there's nothing pro-life about this. Her life is over, it's done -- she died back in December, and there have certainly been enough second, third and fourth opinions to verify that the diagnosis of brain death wasn't in error. From the Catholic perspective, brain death means her soul is already with God and her body should be laid to rest.
2014-01-09 03:07:36 PM  
1 votes:
What the headline made me think of:

upload.wikimedia.org
2014-01-09 03:05:33 PM  
1 votes:

nekom: it was also to remove tissue to treat sleep apnea


Well, screw getting that surgery. I'll stick with having air forced down my nose every night, thankyouverymuch.
2014-01-09 03:02:14 PM  
1 votes:
I come from a long line of medical professionals. Most if not all of the older generation have DNRs. Their reasons are pretty much the same. To quote my mom, a RN:

"I've seen what happens when you live too long."
2014-01-09 02:47:06 PM  
1 votes:
There are also huge difference between "brain dead" , "persistent vegetative state" and coma.
Jahi is brain dead. That's not something you come back from. Ever.
2014-01-09 02:46:43 PM  
1 votes:

Girl On Couch: ok - I have actually been following this (happening in my neck of the woods) and a couple of things:

1. this was NOT a "routine operation" - as Dallymo said, she had an adenotonsillectomy, uvulopalatopharyngoplasty and submucous resection of bilateral inferior turbinates to deal with her sleep apnea (the family has never said why they didn't try to treat this with weight loss or other non-surgical procedures, like the use of a CPAP mask - an aggressive operation like this on a child is usually the last resort)

2. The family has been told repeatedly by 6 different doctors that she is brain dead (and that one does not "recover" from brain death)

3. The family's lawyer has repeatedly lied about the existence of facilities willing to accept and care for a corpse - the last one he claimed to express interest was out of NY run by a former beautician who claims this corpse just needs time to heal.

4. Post op - this family was in the room encouraging the girl to speak, eat and drink (specifically forbidden by the doctors as it might rupture her delicate stitches); additionally the grandmother admits suctioning blood out of the girl's mouth in post op but claimed it was ok - she knew what she was doing because she's a nurse (she's an LVN and has repeatedly exaggerated her licensing and training in the local media)

5. The family created a go fund me page for transport and treatment of this corpse (last I read they had over $50k in donations)

6. At least one doctor has testified that due to the brain inactivity (both brain and brain stem) the corpse is no longer regulating food, etc. (no reason it needs a feeding tube) and that the inside of the bowels are starting to slough off through stools.

Bottom line - this family is beyond grieving - they are parasitic scum who want to raise money for "the care" of their dead kid - they are playing on right to lifer's ignorance.  I just wonder how long they'll keep this charade up as the corpse is already starting to decay (under ...


I'm not calling you a liar.. Actually I love this post. I just wish you linked sources (especially about the parents at her beside doing everything they aren't supposed to be doing)
2014-01-09 02:40:26 PM  
1 votes:

Ghastly: And by "improving" we mean we've stabilized her condition so we can keep riding this cash potato indefinitely. Ka-ching! Ka-ching!

Or at least until the insurance company pulls the plug.


You and I are the insurance company....
2014-01-09 02:33:40 PM  
1 votes:

Mitch Taylor's Bro: thatboyoverthere: Also fark the hospital. "We accidentally killed your daughter so we're going to pull the plug on her LOL!"
/I feel for the family. Personally I would pull the plug but it's up to them.
//My mother says they would have pulled the plug eventually but the hospital decided now. So the family is never going to pull the plug just out of sheer defiance.
/// Also fark the hospital.

Pretty sure the hospital isn't LOLing about this. Mistakes DO happen, and they are going to have one hell of a malpractice suit on their hands, but the decision to take her off the ventilator was confirmed by multiple doctors, including a court-appointed neurologist.


Yup. They are covered on that end.. Malrpractice is another thing.  Although I'd love to believe we live in a world that anyone would understand any surgery no matter how minor could result in you dying. Even perfect doctors are not perfect. Mistakes happen.. Most mistakes can be fixed... Some can't.
2014-01-09 02:31:16 PM  
1 votes:

namegoeshere: Mitch Taylor's Bro: This is happening in my neck o'the woods, so I get frequent updates on it. This sad situation is a direct result of faith trumping science (mother has been quoted as saying, "I know my daughter is alive! I just know it!) and a convoluted legal system that prevents the hospital from discussing their side with the family or the family's lawyers because the case is still open. They also can't address the media, because the family's lawyers have advised them to enforce privacy laws, rather than have a public discussion. Then, the family says, "They won't tell us how this happened!!!!" and the hospital says "They won't let us tell you what's going on!!!" So it's just a big clusterfark.

Having seen my parents deal with this sort of incredibly difficult decision after my sister was in a serious car accident, believe me, I feel for the parents. But they're just delaying the inevitable for no reason other than "becuz mraclez!!!" Unlike the Schiavo case, there isn't even a legal reason to keep her alive. That poor girl should be with God right now :-(

If you believe in the concept of a soul that can exist separately from the body, and you believe that brain dead is dead and keeping the blood circulating does not mean "alive," then it can be argued that this child's soul has already discorporated and is already wherever it goes when the earthly body dies.

This is torture for the family, not the child who is already dead. And f*ck everyone who is leading them to believe differently.


I'm reading a book (A Man of Misconceptions) on Athanasius Kircher.  At several points in his life he has a near-death experience.  In writing about one of them he is quoted:

Amid "the crashing of the falling tiles and creaking of the gaping wall," Kircher prepared to hand over his soul, even sensed it being "loosened from its corporeal fetters in order to take hold of the enjoyment of an unsullied existence."

I loved the way he put that and I highlighted it.  Your use of "discorporated" reminded me of it and I'm glad I got to break it out!

/but yeah this is sad, she gone, let her go.
2014-01-09 02:28:18 PM  
1 votes:
"Three doctors determined Jahi is dead due to brain death, but her family believes that she is alive because her heart and lungs are functioning. The family won court approval to force Children's Hospital to keep Jahi connected to the ventilator and then to move her to a new facility that planned to give her a feeding tube and tracheostomy, which her family believes will give Jahi a chance for recovery. "

Recovery from brain death. Erm.... yeah.
2014-01-09 02:28:04 PM  
1 votes:
upload.wikimedia.org
2014-01-09 02:23:42 PM  
1 votes:
Empathy on FARK?

/where am I?
//there is hope for us.
2014-01-09 02:22:20 PM  
1 votes:
upload.wikimedia.org
2014-01-09 02:21:05 PM  
1 votes:

namegoeshere: Mitch Taylor's Bro: This is happening in my neck o'the woods, so I get frequent updates on it. This sad situation is a direct result of faith trumping science (mother has been quoted as saying, "I know my daughter is alive! I just know it!) and a convoluted legal system that prevents the hospital from discussing their side with the family or the family's lawyers because the case is still open. They also can't address the media, because the family's lawyers have advised them to enforce privacy laws, rather than have a public discussion. Then, the family says, "They won't tell us how this happened!!!!" and the hospital says "They won't let us tell you what's going on!!!" So it's just a big clusterfark.

Having seen my parents deal with this sort of incredibly difficult decision after my sister was in a serious car accident, believe me, I feel for the parents. But they're just delaying the inevitable for no reason other than "becuz mraclez!!!" Unlike the Schiavo case, there isn't even a legal reason to keep her alive. That poor girl should be with God right now :-(

If you believe in the concept of a soul that can exist separately from the body, and you believe that brain dead is dead and keeping the blood circulating does not mean "alive," then it can be argued that this child's soul has already discorporated and is already wherever it goes when the earthly body dies.

This is torture for the family, not the child who is already dead. And f*ck everyone who is leading them to believe differently.


josmarlopes.files.wordpress.com
2014-01-09 02:17:03 PM  
1 votes:
Also fark the hospital. "We accidentally killed your daughter so we're going to pull the plug on her LOL!"
/I feel for the family. Personally I would pull the plug but it's up to them.
//My mother says they would have pulled the plug eventually but the hospital decided now. So the family is never going to pull the plug just out of sheer defiance.
/// Also fark the hospital.
2014-01-09 01:14:32 PM  
1 votes:

xanadian: So, I must've missed the article that explained how a f*#%ing routine operation like a tonsillectomy turned this girl into a vegetable.  Too much blood loss?  Crazy-ass brain-eating infection?  God was at His computer that day?


From what we know, which isn't much, it was extensive bleeding. We will not know more than that until the dust from the lawsuit settles, if then.
2014-01-09 01:14:10 PM  
1 votes:

xanadian: So, I must've missed the article that explained how a f*#%ing routine operation like a tonsillectomy turned this girl into a vegetable.  Too much blood loss?  Crazy-ass brain-eating infection?  God was at His computer that day?


Someone in one of the other threads said that kind of operation presents a big danger for post-op blood loss, which is likely the cause.  Also it wasn't just a tonsillectomy, it was also to remove tissue to treat sleep apnea.  Still VERY unusual and I'm sure a team of lawyers has already been dispatched.
2014-01-09 12:58:01 PM  
1 votes:
So, I must've missed the article that explained how a f*#%ing routine operation like a tonsillectomy turned this girl into a vegetable.  Too much blood loss?  Crazy-ass brain-eating infection?  God was at His computer that day?
 
Displayed 87 of 87 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report