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(SFGate)   Dead girl's condition improving, says lawyer   (sfgate.com) divider line 313
    More: Asinine, Jahi McMath, Arden McMath, feeding tube  
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11764 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Jan 2014 at 2:09 PM (28 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-09 09:24:33 PM

walktoanarcade: styckx: This hamburger thing needs a huge "CITATION NEEDED".. It's only on blogs and shiatty conspiracy sites..  Where did this hamburger thing spawn from? No one seems to know.

Sometimes stuff happens and it isn't caught on video, or it is on video and gets lost.

Or like others have mentioned, the witnesses are shutting up because it's getting lawsuity.

Did you know that there's a TV version of Star Wars where Luke says: "Blast it, *Wedge, where are you?"?
If you disbelieve it, it's your loss, however I do agree I can't prove it without a copy.
/right not biggs


I'm not ridculing anyone.. Or saying people are making it up. I just hate having a talking point that I can't point to a credible place to validate what I say..   I mean, if the hamburger story is true.. Someone had to talk about.. Where is this talking about it?  Where is that? It had to stem from somewhere and I just keep scratching my head trying to figure it out..  Someone had to report on it or it wouldn't be comment section gossip.. Who reported on it?
 
2014-01-09 09:32:54 PM

styckx: walktoanarcade: styckx: This hamburger thing needs a huge "CITATION NEEDED".. It's only on blogs and shiatty conspiracy sites..  Where did this hamburger thing spawn from? No one seems to know.

Sometimes stuff happens and it isn't caught on video, or it is on video and gets lost.

Or like others have mentioned, the witnesses are shutting up because it's getting lawsuity.

Did you know that there's a TV version of Star Wars where Luke says: "Blast it, *Wedge, where are you?"?
If you disbelieve it, it's your loss, however I do agree I can't prove it without a copy.
/right not biggs

I'm not ridculing anyone.. Or saying people are making it up. I just hate having a talking point that I can't point to a credible place to validate what I say..   I mean, if the hamburger story is true.. Someone had to talk about.. Where is this talking about it?  Where is that? It had to stem from somewhere and I just keep scratching my head trying to figure it out..  Someone had to report on it or it wouldn't be comment section gossip.. Who reported on it?


No, it's OK, didn't seem like you were making fun at all. You're right to demand credible sources, I'm in the same boat as you;it's hard to know if it's plausible sounding BS, or if some hospital employee jotted it down on their cell phone(as in started the blog comments). Or something similar.

All of you getting extremely angry(not saying you specifically) over this ought to become journalists because this country needs people that care to ask the right questions.


/the star wars comment is truthful
 
2014-01-09 09:37:01 PM

derpy: Also, fark the new secret hospital that is playing along with this charade.


Money, publicity, etc.

walktoanarcade: derpy: Also, fark the new secret hospital that is playing along with this charade.

You mean the family's basement and or darkened laundry room?


oh
 
2014-01-09 09:38:03 PM

walktoanarcade: styckx: walktoanarcade: styckx: This hamburger thing needs a huge "CITATION NEEDED".. It's only on blogs and shiatty conspiracy sites..  Where did this hamburger thing spawn from? No one seems to know.

Sometimes stuff happens and it isn't caught on video, or it is on video and gets lost.

Or like others have mentioned, the witnesses are shutting up because it's getting lawsuity.

Did you know that there's a TV version of Star Wars where Luke says: "Blast it, *Wedge, where are you?"?
If you disbelieve it, it's your loss, however I do agree I can't prove it without a copy.
/right not biggs

I'm not ridculing anyone.. Or saying people are making it up. I just hate having a talking point that I can't point to a credible place to validate what I say..   I mean, if the hamburger story is true.. Someone had to talk about.. Where is this talking about it?  Where is that? It had to stem from somewhere and I just keep scratching my head trying to figure it out..  Someone had to report on it or it wouldn't be comment section gossip.. Who reported on it?

No, it's OK, didn't seem like you were making fun at all. You're right to demand credible sources, I'm in the same boat as you;it's hard to know if it's plausible sounding BS, or if some hospital employee jotted it down on their cell phone(as in started the blog comments). Or something similar.

All of you getting extremely angry(not saying you specifically) over this ought to become journalists because this country needs people that care to ask the right questions.


/the star wars comment is truthful


We need to hire one of those meme sites.. Who somehow, someway, manage to find out the very first mentioning of a shiatty meme some 4 years back in some obscure thread on reddit or  a 4chan archive.
 
2014-01-09 09:43:57 PM
Here is another pretty good blog about it.

Her brain is soup. Her skull is a soup bowl.
 
2014-01-09 09:44:53 PM
styckx:

We need to hire one of those meme sites.. Who somehow, someway, manage to find out the very first mentioning of a shiatty meme some 4 years back in some obscure thread on reddit or  a 4chan archive.

Are you a super-villain?  o_0
 
2014-01-09 09:46:44 PM

Mitch Taylor's Bro: I think my mother had a good standard--do what you can so long as the result is a reasonable chance she's going home. If she's not going home don't try.

Unfortunately, the legal and health care systems don't work that way. Health care professionals are required to do their best to resuscitate you UNLESS you have a DNR order on file.


Agreed, and I'm not too happy with the hospital.  They woke me up, verified I was family and then asked about DNR orders.  They didn't ask if I knew her wishes and didn't realize I was only half awake.  (My gripe is purely procedural as given the situation I would have said to try.)  Just because you're working swing doesn't mean the person you just woke up is alert!

lemortede: Do a search for the eye witnesses...many of them have stopped talking about it for legal reasons.


Got some links?  I seem to be using the wrong search terms or something.
 
2014-01-09 09:51:28 PM
It's a hamburger now?  I was reading something similar in another comment section only there someone was (admittedly) speculating that the family give her comfort food.  We will never know if it happened because if it did, nobody will ever admit it.  It's plausible though.  With the way the mom is acting I can see it as a reaction to wanting to distance oneself from the blame (if that is what happened).

Again, not saying it did happened so back off if your about to go all crazy on me for this.  I'm just saying I can easily see how it could happen and it's an interesting talking point.  The girl was overweight, there are plenty of families that turn to food for comfort and it would explain why 3 days after the procedure something went horribly wrong.  It wouldn't be the first time somebody snuck in food to a hospital.  Hell, when I had my appendix out my family snuck me in food.  I'm sure plenty of people here have had the same experience.  It's a very human thing to do.
 
2014-01-09 09:53:24 PM

namegoeshere: Here is another pretty good blog about it.

Her brain is soup. Her skull is a soup bowl.


God damn crackers
 
2014-01-09 09:54:30 PM
Here is a pic of her hand. You can see the skin slippage as decomposition continues.

(basically sfw. It's just hands)
 
2014-01-09 10:01:03 PM

luxup: It's a hamburger now?  I was reading something similar in another comment section only there someone was (admittedly) speculating that the family give her comfort food.  We will never know if it happened because if it did, nobody will ever admit it.  It's plausible though.  With the way the mom is acting I can see it as a reaction to wanting to distance oneself from the blame (if that is what happened).

Again, not saying it did happened so back off if your about to go all crazy on me for this.  I'm just saying I can easily see how it could happen and it's an interesting talking point.  The girl was overweight, there are plenty of families that turn to food for comfort and it would explain why 3 days after the procedure something went horribly wrong.  It wouldn't be the first time somebody snuck in food to a hospital.  Hell, when I had my appendix out my family snuck me in food.  I'm sure plenty of people here have had the same experience.  It's a very human thing to do.


It would explain a lot. The thing that makes me skeptical, though, is that when a coworker of mine had this surgery (as a last resort - she had tried all else and death was still a very real possibility) she said that recovery was absolute farking hell. It was months before she was eating normally, and weeks before she could tolerate anything she couldn't sip. It's not the tonsils, it's the soft palate that's the killer. So I can't imagine even a food addicted heavy person wanting anything at all to do with a cheeseburger (or whatever it was) so soon post op.
 
2014-01-09 10:03:57 PM

namegoeshere: Here is a pic of her hand. You can see the skin slippage as decomposition continues.

(basically sfw. It's just hands)


Especially compared to this hand shot taken weeks ago.
 
2014-01-09 10:05:11 PM

namegoeshere: luxup: It's a hamburger now?  I was reading something similar in another comment section only there someone was (admittedly) speculating that the family give her comfort food.  We will never know if it happened because if it did, nobody will ever admit it.  It's plausible though.  With the way the mom is acting I can see it as a reaction to wanting to distance oneself from the blame (if that is what happened).

Again, not saying it did happened so back off if your about to go all crazy on me for this.  I'm just saying I can easily see how it could happen and it's an interesting talking point.  The girl was overweight, there are plenty of families that turn to food for comfort and it would explain why 3 days after the procedure something went horribly wrong.  It wouldn't be the first time somebody snuck in food to a hospital.  Hell, when I had my appendix out my family snuck me in food.  I'm sure plenty of people here have had the same experience.  It's a very human thing to do.

It would explain a lot. The thing that makes me skeptical, though, is that when a coworker of mine had this surgery (as a last resort - she had tried all else and death was still a very real possibility) she said that recovery was absolute farking hell. It was months before she was eating normally, and weeks before she could tolerate anything she couldn't sip. It's not the tonsils, it's the soft palate that's the killer. So I can't imagine even a food addicted heavy person wanting anything at all to do with a cheeseburger (or whatever it was) so soon post op.


I am a fat girl who loves some food. Like i said before, it was a solid month after just a tonsillectomy before I could force anything more solid than pasta down.

That said... all it would have taken was one bite.
 
2014-01-09 10:08:59 PM
I hope Fark continues greening threads about this.. Some good dark humor here and there but it has been a interesting thread with a lot of great discussion.
 
2014-01-09 10:12:24 PM

Cagey B: thatboyoverthere: Also fark the hospital. "We accidentally killed your daughter so we're going to pull the plug on her LOL!"

g4lt: Well, although the kid's a vegetable, I can't help thinking that the hospital that CAUSED THE FARKING BRAIN DEATH shouldn't have any more say in the care decisions, no matter how logical they're being.

These statements make absolutely no sense to me. The kid's dead. Regardless of what the circumstances of her death were, what exactly is the benefit to anybody of keeping a corpse on life support? Do we dig up murder victims and force criminals to pay for their dialysis and skin treatments?


The mother is hanging on to the idea that "because her heart is beating, we know she's alive." (as near an actual quote as I can recall without looking it up) The whole family is basically endorsing that idea, that as long as she is "breathing" and her heart is "beating" that she's alive and needs to be "given a chance to recover" (all near-quotes I've heard on news reports).

I don't know if this family is uber-religious, or if mom is just in ultra-denial that a 13-year old girl is now a meat-sack; but it's not the hospital, or the lawyers or anyone else. Nearly everyone except the family and their own attorneys are insisting this child is dead and needs to be let go; but the parents and family are insisting she's "alive" and they want to give her "every opportunity" to survive. The hospital is not making any money off this, and the place that accepted her body had to go through all kinds of legal hoops to accept her--they didn't want her either.

it's very sad.
 
2014-01-09 10:12:45 PM

styckx: I hope Fark continues greening threads about this.. Some good dark humor here and there but it has been a interesting thread with a lot of great discussion.


^this

If anything, this story has reminded me that no matter the peoples, no one likes death and most appreciate gallows humor to alleviate the stress of that awful reminder that..oh hey! Ever play Bosconian?
 
2014-01-09 10:14:06 PM

styckx: I hope Fark continues greening threads about this.. Some good dark humor here and there but it has been a interesting thread with a lot of great discussion.


And everyone has been civil! It's been great.
 
2014-01-09 10:14:58 PM

namegoeshere: Here is a pic of her hand. You can see the skin slippage as decomposition continues.

(basically sfw. It's just hands)


While disturbing in concept, the image is of too low quality for the appearance not be dismissed by a "Jahi Truther" as simply a consequence of extreme weight loss.
 
2014-01-09 10:16:57 PM
What is preventing the courts where this girl is at now from ordering them to pull the plug? At this point what's the difference between what she is doing and my dad dying and storing him in a closet?  They are harboring a corpse.. There has got to be some laws and a judge with the balls to say "Hey, shut it down.. You're farking insane"
 
2014-01-09 10:17:03 PM

styckx: I hope Fark continues greening threads about this.. Some good dark humor here and there but it has been a interesting thread with a lot of great discussion.


I must confess that I had been waiting nearly a week to use my Indiana Jones reference.
 
2014-01-09 10:18:00 PM

namegoeshere: Bunny Deville: walktoanarcade:
Dear God...

Some people really are a river in Egypt. Maybe it's time for nurses like your step-mom to let people know before that stage it could come to that gruesome end, although how to broach it, search me.

Oh, she tried. Believe you me, she tried. At this stage the body has already lost a couple of digits due to lack of blood flow. People, especially uneducated people, just will not listen sometimes. It's awful. No matter how much you reason with people, if the heart is still beating, they believe that the loved one will just wake up one day and be fine. When the tongue thing happened, that's when my stepmom stopped trying to be nice to this family and let them know that they weren't doing anyone any favors by their denial.

Only on Fark could I ask this question: Did they just sort of... fall off? Or were they surgically removed because of rot?


Sorry, catching up on the thread but that question right there is why I love this place.
 
2014-01-09 10:19:22 PM

Dimensio: styckx: I hope Fark continues greening threads about this.. Some good dark humor here and there but it has been a interesting thread with a lot of great discussion.

I must confess that I had been waiting nearly a week to use my Indiana Jones reference.


I love dark humor

/huge fan of Jim Norton, Louis CK etc...
 
2014-01-09 10:40:41 PM
Thank you to all who posted links.  I'm off to read them now, with a heavy heart.  I can't say what I would do in their situation, but I'd like to think I'd be rational enough to take six doctors' advice and let my child go, as painful as it may be.  Dead is dead.
 
2014-01-09 10:42:08 PM
I'm just waiting for these guys to get charged with "abuse of a corpse". Hasn't she been declared legally dead for a few days?
 
2014-01-09 10:43:04 PM

CRtwenty: I'm just waiting for these guys to get charged with "abuse of a corpse". Hasn't she been declared legally dead for a few days?


A few? We're a few days away from a month now..  No lie.. The girl has been clinically dead for nearly a month..
 
2014-01-09 10:43:20 PM

namegoeshere: luxup: It's a hamburger now?  I was reading something similar in another comment section only there someone was (admittedly) speculating that the family give her comfort food.  We will never know if it happened because if it did, nobody will ever admit it.  It's plausible though.  With the way the mom is acting I can see it as a reaction to wanting to distance oneself from the blame (if that is what happened).

Again, not saying it did happened so back off if your about to go all crazy on me for this.  I'm just saying I can easily see how it could happen and it's an interesting talking point.  The girl was overweight, there are plenty of families that turn to food for comfort and it would explain why 3 days after the procedure something went horribly wrong.  It wouldn't be the first time somebody snuck in food to a hospital.  Hell, when I had my appendix out my family snuck me in food.  I'm sure plenty of people here have had the same experience.  It's a very human thing to do.

It would explain a lot. The thing that makes me skeptical, though, is that when a coworker of mine had this surgery (as a last resort - she had tried all else and death was still a very real possibility) she said that recovery was absolute farking hell. It was months before she was eating normally, and weeks before she could tolerate anything she couldn't sip. It's not the tonsils, it's the soft palate that's the killer. So I can't imagine even a food addicted heavy person wanting anything at all to do with a cheeseburger (or whatever it was) so soon post op.


I can see a scared 13 year old little girl wanting to please her mommy.  Maybe do what mom asks to show her she doesn't need to worry and maybe grandma will stop offering her food.

Just seeing how the whole food dynamic plays out with in-laws while trying to raise a healthy child, well...I can picture it.
 
2014-01-09 10:46:41 PM

styckx: CRtwenty: I'm just waiting for these guys to get charged with "abuse of a corpse". Hasn't she been declared legally dead for a few days?

A few? We're a few days away from a month now..  No lie.. The girl has been clinically dead for nearly a month..


Yeah, but I think her death certificate was officially issued just a few days ago. I remember one of the articles posted earlier saying the family had to get it before they could get her body out of the hospital and into wherever the heck she is now.

Well I doubt it'll be an issue for very much longer. They'll have to face the music when parts of her start falling off.
 
2014-01-09 10:51:42 PM
Oh gaaa, I just started thinking about what I'd do if my son was like this. Something I have never had to think about in my entire life. I'd let him go, of course, but ---goddamn you people. Fiends.
 
2014-01-09 10:52:42 PM

CRtwenty: styckx: CRtwenty: I'm just waiting for these guys to get charged with "abuse of a corpse". Hasn't she been declared legally dead for a few days?

A few? We're a few days away from a month now..  No lie.. The girl has been clinically dead for nearly a month..

Yeah, but I think her death certificate was officially issued just a few days ago. I remember one of the articles posted earlier saying the family had to get it before they could get her body out of the hospital and into wherever the heck she is now.

Well I doubt it'll be an issue for very much longer. They'll have to face the music when parts of her start falling off.


Yeah... I see your point in the death certificate part..

And.. Who's to say when her heart stops they'll even tell anyone? These people are insane and I hate that I'm even emotionally vested in someone elses life but fark.. It's a dead little girl they're toting around as a sideshow circus... Motherfarkers..  I'm seriously just despising this family more and more..
 
2014-01-09 10:55:01 PM

cryinoutloud: Oh gaaa, I just started thinking about what I'd do if my son was like this. Something I have never had to think about in my entire life. I'd let him go, of course, but ---goddamn you people. Fiends.


Me and my father had this conversation today.. He came at me with this angle also.. I said to him "Dad, a month now the road about six doctors said I was dead.. You touched my skin and it was loose, and falling apart, I leaked intestines out my asshole, my temp cold as the air in the room. I haven't farted, moved, blinked, coughed, etc.. You would still hang on and think there is hope?"
 
2014-01-09 11:00:10 PM

styckx: Dallymo: RoyFokker'sGhost: Dallymo: Rodeodoc: Lots on here about the parents getting $bazillions off a  law suit.  Can a CA farker confirm that California law caps malpractice awards at $250,000?  If that's the case, I'm thinking that the girl's stay in the new facility will suck that up in a month or so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_Injury_Compensation_Reform_Act

The $250k is for non-economic damages.

The family's attorney, Christopher Dolan, is active in efforts to change MICRA, arguing that the $250k cap is unconstitutional.

http://www.protectconsumerjustice.org/how-the-micra-cap-violates-cal if ornians-rights-to-equal-protection-jury-trial-and-due-process.html

The emotional outcry and publicity this case is generating is a plus for his cause.


Of course he wants the cap removed; he's an ambulance chasing personal-injury lawyer

And that's not exaggeration, he specifically targets injury cases in his TV ads.

Yes--I think there's an idea, especially among some who are on the side of keeping the child on the vent "because she might wake up," that Dolan is purely a white knight for the girl and her family.  The uncle posted on Instagram:

I will be forever grateful for this man. He took my call in the middle of the night and listened to everything I had to say and decided to help me for FREE!!! There are not many lawyers in the world that would take a case where there is no money involved, but this man has a huge heart and I will always love him for what he has done for my family. I hear people questioning his ethics and it is ridiculous. This man did what no other lawyer would and I can't thank him enough. Christopher B. Dolan you are my brother & my friend. Welcome to the family, but you were already family when agreed to help me that night
 http://instagram.com/p/i9d1kUopsg/#


He may not be receiving a fee from the family, but it's hard to believe that he'd take this case if it didn't advance his cause against MICRA in general, "huge heart" or no. ...



Yeah, Dolan is the major ambulance chaser in San Francisco. To give you more of an idea, he has radio ads that masquerade as PSA's; like having his 'daughter' (not sure if it's really her or not, or if he even has one) talk about bicycle safety and wearing helmets, then Dolan comes on and says 'We hope you'll never need our services; but if you've been injured, call the Dolan Law Firm at...'

Have no doubt that all he sees is the dollar signs.

Also, IANAL, but from what i've heard, the $250K cap is only for 'potential earning' damages; emotional damages and punitive fees are still wide open.
 
2014-01-09 11:02:39 PM
Confusion between vegetative state and brain dead notwithstanding, I believe I found out why people believe that being hooked up to life support isn't that bad: http://youtu.be/hoUA8RSL8_Q
 
2014-01-09 11:03:59 PM

luxup: I can see a scared 13 year old little girl wanting to please her mommy. Maybe do what mom asks to show her she doesn't need to worry and maybe grandma will stop offering her food.

Just seeing how the whole food dynamic plays out with in-laws while trying to raise a healthy child, well...I can picture it.


Plus who knows how powerful her meds were at the time. Surgery like that has got to be painful as hell and with an apparent BMI like that who knows what they had to do to manage her pain. Between that and perhaps her trying to swallow a bite or two I can see that happening and IF (and it's a big if) the family tried to suction out the bleeding themselves at first causing the stitches to rip or tear out even more, then the hospital should be well in the clear. 3 day post-op and hemorrhaging out like that is not normal at all if she and her family were looking out for her stitches the way they were supposed to be.
 
2014-01-09 11:04:38 PM

RoyFokker'sGhost: styckx: Dallymo: RoyFokker'sGhost: Dallymo: Rodeodoc: Lots on here about the parents getting $bazillions off a  law suit.  Can a CA farker confirm that California law caps malpractice awards at $250,000?  If that's the case, I'm thinking that the girl's stay in the new facility will suck that up in a month or so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_Injury_Compensation_Reform_Act

The $250k is for non-economic damages.

The family's attorney, Christopher Dolan, is active in efforts to change MICRA, arguing that the $250k cap is unconstitutional.

http://www.protectconsumerjustice.org/how-the-micra-cap-violates-cal if ornians-rights-to-equal-protection-jury-trial-and-due-process.html

The emotional outcry and publicity this case is generating is a plus for his cause.


Of course he wants the cap removed; he's an ambulance chasing personal-injury lawyer

And that's not exaggeration, he specifically targets injury cases in his TV ads.

Yes--I think there's an idea, especially among some who are on the side of keeping the child on the vent "because she might wake up," that Dolan is purely a white knight for the girl and her family.  The uncle posted on Instagram:

I will be forever grateful for this man. He took my call in the middle of the night and listened to everything I had to say and decided to help me for FREE!!! There are not many lawyers in the world that would take a case where there is no money involved, but this man has a huge heart and I will always love him for what he has done for my family. I hear people questioning his ethics and it is ridiculous. This man did what no other lawyer would and I can't thank him enough. Christopher B. Dolan you are my brother & my friend. Welcome to the family, but you were already family when agreed to help me that night
 http://instagram.com/p/i9d1kUopsg/#


He may not be receiving a fee from the family, but it's hard to believe that he'd take this case if it didn't advance his cause against MICRA in general, "huge heart ...


Every city has these Scumbags..

Here is Philly.. This guy IS KING of being a leeching asshole:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfDykO2kSSY
 
2014-01-09 11:21:44 PM

Bunny Deville: Terri Schiavo's family still insists that she was conscious and not in a PVS and could see and interact with them even though the autopsy showed that she was blind and a third of her brain was liquefied.


I remember seeing an (X-ray? CT scan?) of her (remaining) brain next to the same of a normal brain.  Most of the picture was empty cause the tissue had died and the body cleared it out.  This poor girl ain't gonna wake up and the family needs to accept it.
 
2014-01-09 11:28:36 PM
styckx: Every city has these Scumbags..

Here is Philly.. This guy IS KING of being a leeching asshole:   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfDykO2kSSY" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(61, 61, 255); text-decoration: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgb(255, 94, 153); line-height: 17px;">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfDykO2kSSY


Oh, absolutely. There's these kinds of lawyers everywhere you go. I was just saying that this is 'our' scumbag attorney.

Not that we're proud of him or anything...

The bottom line is that it's a tragedy that's being made far worse by a leech pretending to care. Given some of the disturbing biological effects that have been posted in this thread, her poor family is going to be even more devastated when the rot in her body becomes more obvious.
 
2014-01-09 11:47:24 PM
Personally I'm happy that zombies have yet to progress to the point where they can be away from oxygen pumping machines and still have to be fed with a tube. Give it a couple decades and some asshole will have these things up and walking.
 
2014-01-09 11:50:43 PM

RoyFokker'sGhost: Also, IANAL, but from what i've heard, the $250K cap is only for 'potential earning' damages; emotional damages and punitive fees are still wide open.


You are correct. Punitive damages can go through the roof. And there's a potential for loss of consortium here, or whatever the equivalent is for children.
 
2014-01-09 11:56:55 PM
This might be one of the best and more brutally honest pieces written about this:  http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/01/09/ethicists-critic i ze-treatment-brain-dead-patients/4394173/
 
2014-01-09 11:57:22 PM
This is one of the most disgusting, sad, unbelievable stories I've ever heard of. This is the first time I've paid any attention to it at all.

They took her body out of the morgue. It's like The Monkey's Paw for modern times.
 
2014-01-10 12:09:24 AM
Nurse here.  I read somewhere, and I cannot remember where for the life of me so I'm going to try to find it tonight so I can cite a credible source for you, but I read that the brain dead girl had an undisclosed blood clotting condition that put her at an increased risk for hemorrhage after surgery.  It's just speculation though, and I very well may have read it in a blog or post so let me find the source.

As for the hospital in Oakland: I hope that those nurses documented the hell out of everything that was going on in that PICU, right down to how many family members insisted on being in there with that girl.  Whenever we have annoying or unruly families we document everything out of sorts that happens because it's the overbearing, annoying families that cause issues a lot of the time.  I can't tell you how many times family members have gotten in the way of us caring for their mom, dad, aunt, uncle, grandma etc.  I am sympathetic and extremely accomodating to families to a point - until they start interfering with the care of my patient.  Then I get mad and will start documenting that the family was interfering not only to protect myself but also the patient who I can't give adequate care to because the family isn't allowing me.  I hope those nurses did the same because if they did, the family will have a pretty wooly case against the hospital if the family was going against doctors orders.  I also hope it's documented that the family was educated by the staff before and after the surgery on the fact that the girl couldn't eat or talk for a certain period of time because the family could claim ignorance.  I care for heart failure patients who need to severely restrict their sodium intake and I can't tell you how many family members come in with Chinese food or McDonalds for their family members even after I've repeated myself over and over and over that high sodium food could kill their family member.  You can't fix stupid.

Sad story and I'm sorry for the family's loss but in the end, the only real loser is Jahi.
 
2014-01-10 12:16:38 AM
not sure about applicable laws in this situation, but i would imagine that as soon as that death certificate gets filed, the family is getting hit with something along the lines of "concealing a corpse"...  i know i've heard that come up in fraud cases where someone died and got stashed without telling anyone so they could keep collecting social security/pension/etc. money.  no foul play involved, just deliberately keeping a dead body out of the coroner's office...  and in this case it sounds like they're trying to figure out how to get money out of this as well...
 
2014-01-10 01:13:35 AM

nekom: Bob Falfa:
No. Her parents just can't let her go.
Very sad.

It is, but I'm not in any position to pass judgment, and god help me I don't ever want to be in such a position.  Grief can lead to irrational behavior.  Every scientific and medical opinion is that her brain is goo, she's already dead, not even the slightest chance of a recovery.  The family aren't doctors or scientists, all they hear is "Well, she's in bad shape, but you never know!"

It's just a shiatty situation all around.


but who is paying for her care now? and i'd bet the hospital will slip a bill under the parents door once the story cools down some.

if the parents can pay either themselves or with donations fine, let the girl lie there. if they can't, if you and i are paying pull the tracheostomy and the feeding tube and let her finish dying.
 
2014-01-10 01:20:57 AM
It's late in the thread and I don't have much to contribute, but I just wanted to say that I am so very thankful for my CPAP....  Even at the age of 28 when I was first diagnosed with apnea, the doctors strongly recommended the machine over the operation...
 
2014-01-10 01:21:29 AM

Gyrfalcon: RoyFokker'sGhost: Also, IANAL, but from what i've heard, the $250K cap is only for 'potential earning' damages; emotional damages and punitive fees are still wide open.

You are correct. Punitive damages can go through the roof. And there's a potential for loss of consortium here, or whatever the equivalent is for children.


IANAL either (Gyrfalcon may be, though--yes? from goals in your profile), but it sounds like it's much easier to demonstrate deviation from standard of care to show malpractice than it is to show "wanton and reckless conduct" or whatever the threshold is that would allow punitive damages.  There was an earlier interview with mom and the uncle (http://www.ktvu.com/videos/news/mcmath-vigil-raw-video-of-jahi-mcmat hs -mothers/vCLZHH/) in which the uncle suggests (about 6 minutes in) that the hospital wanted the vent disconnected because of the difference between a lawsuit for "chump change" of $250k and one for $30M.  I don't know if he's referring to medical costs or earning potential or punitive damages, but I do wonder where that number came from.  Dolan has said that he won't be handling the malpractice or wrongful death suit (http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_24865029/jahi-mcmath-stre et fighting-lawyer-takes-heat-death-threats) but it seems likely he had some influence in putting that number out there.

I hadn't actually watched that whole video through before; it's pretty sad.  Mom is steadfast in her belief that it had only been a week and they hadn't given Jahi enough time and that something good was going to happen.
 
2014-01-10 01:26:16 AM

Loren: Mitch Taylor's Bro: I think my mother had a good standard--do what you can so long as the result is a reasonable chance she's going home. If she's not going home don't try.

Unfortunately, the legal and health care systems don't work that way. Health care professionals are required to do their best to resuscitate you UNLESS you have a DNR order on file.

Agreed, and I'm not too happy with the hospital.  They woke me up, verified I was family and then asked about DNR orders.  They didn't ask if I knew her wishes and didn't realize I was only half awake.  (My gripe is purely procedural as given the situation I would have said to try.)  Just because you're working swing doesn't mean the person you just woke up is alert!


I don't want to open old wounds or belabor the point, but here is the way it is in CA.

http://www.emsa.ca.gov/Forms

I can't tell for sure from your description what your situation was, but it sounds like your mother had a DNR order. If that's the case, once you said, "yes," and they covered all the legal bases, they could not resuscitate her, no matter what you said.

But you can see how serious this is for the health care providers. They can't afford to guess or determine whether or not you have the power of attorney required to make decisions for your mother. If your mother had a DNR order, I don't think you can reverse it, even if you have power of attorney. If she didn't, they are going to try to revive her. Your mother's standard, "do what you can so long as the result is a reasonable chance she's going home. If she's not going home don't try," is not an option available to them. They can't predict what would possibly happen to an unconscious person with a life-threatening condition and relay that info to you so you could make the decision for her.

So you might harbor bad feelings about how everything went down, but I don't think they had any choice and, quite possibly, neither did you.

Having said all that, and having just read that web page I linked to, I am going to talk to my parents about getting medic alert bracelets that contain their DNR info :-(
 
2014-01-10 01:28:04 AM

JennyArcade: You can't fix stupid.


You can't.

And every nurse I have ever known... my mother, my stepmother, two of my cousins, my aunt, and my best friend... repeatedly present me with horror stories where the family is in denial and does something stupid. Education is the only answer.

Only... it doesn't do any good if MORONS LIKE THESE PEOPLE ARE ASSURING THE REST OF THE MORONS THAT BRAIN DEATH CAN BE OVERCOME WITH THE WILL OF EVERLOVING GOD EVEN THOUGH HE HAS NEVER DONE IT BEFORE EXCEPT IN CASES OF BRAIN DAMAGE NOT BRAIN DEATH BECAUSE BRAIN DEATH IS DEATH ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH.
 
2014-01-10 02:37:42 AM

namegoeshere: Bunny Deville: namegoeshere: Bunny Deville: walktoanarcade:
Dear God...

Some people really are a river in Egypt. Maybe it's time for nurses like your step-mom to let people know before that stage it could come to that gruesome end, although how to broach it, search me.

Oh, she tried. Believe you me, she tried. At this stage the body has already lost a couple of digits due to lack of blood flow. People, especially uneducated people, just will not listen sometimes. It's awful. No matter how much you reason with people, if the heart is still beating, they believe that the loved one will just wake up one day and be fine. When the tongue thing happened, that's when my stepmom stopped trying to be nice to this family and let them know that they weren't doing anyone any favors by their denial.

Only on Fark could I ask this question: Did they just sort of... fall off? Or were they surgically removed because of rot?

Well, they weren't surgically removed.

*hork*

There's denial, and there's overlooking digits falling off denial.


I think that's up to Egyptian river delta De-nile
Amazing.,and sad.
 
2014-01-10 04:36:47 AM

RoyFokker'sGhost: styckx: Every city has these Scumbags..

Here is Philly.. This guy IS KING of being a leeching asshole:   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfDykO2kSSY" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(61, 61, 255); text-decoration: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgb(255, 94, 153); line-height: 17px;">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfDykO2kSSY

Oh, absolutely. There's these kinds of lawyers everywhere you go. I was just saying that this is 'our' scumbag attorney.

Not that we're proud of him or anything...

The bottom line is that it's a tragedy that's being made far worse by a leech pretending to care. Given some of the disturbing biological effects that have been posted in this thread, her poor family is going to be even more devastated when the rot in her body becomes more obvious.


I really appreciate that you liken this lawyer scum to a blood-sucking oligochaeta, it just feels right that way, you know?
 
2014-01-10 06:26:18 AM
There have been cases where people who were thought to be brain dead were successfully resuscitated and recalled things said around them that a brain dead person should not have been able to hear.
 
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