If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(SFGate)   Dead girl's condition improving, says lawyer   (sfgate.com) divider line 313
    More: Asinine, Jahi McMath, Arden McMath, feeding tube  
•       •       •

11775 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Jan 2014 at 2:09 PM (48 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



313 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | » | Last | Show all
 
2014-01-09 09:58:30 AM  
So, only mostly dead? It's going to take a miracle.
 
2014-01-09 10:18:06 AM  
Just an awful situation.  No winners here.
 
2014-01-09 10:42:59 AM  
Three doctors determined Jahi is dead due to brain death, but her family believes that she is alive because her heart and lungs are functioning.

If they are only functioning due to medical assistance from ventilators, can it really be said that they're working?
 
2014-01-09 12:33:25 PM  

RexTalionis: Three doctors determined Jahi is dead due to brain death, but her family believes that she is alive because her heart and lungs are functioning.

If they are only functioning due to medical assistance from ventilators, can it really be said that they're working?


No. Her parents just can't let her go.
Very sad.
 
2014-01-09 12:39:47 PM  
Bob Falfa:
No. Her parents just can't let her go.
Very sad.


It is, but I'm not in any position to pass judgment, and god help me I don't ever want to be in such a position.  Grief can lead to irrational behavior.  Every scientific and medical opinion is that her brain is goo, she's already dead, not even the slightest chance of a recovery.  The family aren't doctors or scientists, all they hear is "Well, she's in bad shape, but you never know!"

It's just a shiatty situation all around.
 
2014-01-09 12:41:02 PM  

czetie: So, only mostly dead? It's going to take a miracle.


Approves
img.fark.net
 
2014-01-09 12:47:09 PM  

RexTalionis: Three doctors determined Jahi is dead due to brain death, but her family believes that she is alive because her heart and lungs are functioning.

If they are only functioning due to medical assistance from ventilators, can it really be said that they're working?


I believe I read it somewhere that her heart and lungs are still working without medical intervention due to the autonomic responses in those organs.  But her brain is flat line.  She is on vents to assist breathing, and what's keeping her alive really is the feeding tubes.

It is extremely sad and tragic, but she's gone.  It's time to pull the plugs and let her go the rest of the way in peace.  I know there have been instances where people in a coma have come back after many years.  But those people haven't been flat  line.  We know you love her, but let her die in peace.  Without a circus.
 
2014-01-09 12:58:01 PM  
So, I must've missed the article that explained how a f*#%ing routine operation like a tonsillectomy turned this girl into a vegetable.  Too much blood loss?  Crazy-ass brain-eating infection?  God was at His computer that day?
 
2014-01-09 01:13:11 PM  
The reason the new facility insisted on the trach and feeding tube is ease of care, and that's it. It will make it easier for them to keep her corpse warm.

This sucks. I hope her heart gives out very, very soon. Like, today. No good can come from keeping her... there isn't a word, really. Certainly not "alive."
 
2014-01-09 01:14:10 PM  

xanadian: So, I must've missed the article that explained how a f*#%ing routine operation like a tonsillectomy turned this girl into a vegetable.  Too much blood loss?  Crazy-ass brain-eating infection?  God was at His computer that day?


Someone in one of the other threads said that kind of operation presents a big danger for post-op blood loss, which is likely the cause.  Also it wasn't just a tonsillectomy, it was also to remove tissue to treat sleep apnea.  Still VERY unusual and I'm sure a team of lawyers has already been dispatched.
 
2014-01-09 01:14:32 PM  

xanadian: So, I must've missed the article that explained how a f*#%ing routine operation like a tonsillectomy turned this girl into a vegetable.  Too much blood loss?  Crazy-ass brain-eating infection?  God was at His computer that day?


From what we know, which isn't much, it was extensive bleeding. We will not know more than that until the dust from the lawsuit settles, if then.
 
2014-01-09 01:16:33 PM  

xanadian: So, I must've missed the article that explained how a f*#%ing routine operation like a tonsillectomy turned this girl into a vegetable.  Too much blood loss?  Crazy-ass brain-eating infection?  God was at His computer that day?


Adenotonsillectomy, uvulopalatopharyngoplasty and submucous resection of bilateral inferior turbinates.  Too much blood loss post-op.
 
2014-01-09 01:32:30 PM  
And by "improving" we mean we've stabilized her condition so we can keep riding this cash potato indefinitely. Ka-ching! Ka-ching!

Or at least until the insurance company pulls the plug.
 
2014-01-09 01:33:25 PM  
Is the laywer related to Trapper John?

/tragic, I can get why her folks don't want to let her go
//she's gone
///TFSM Congress isn't involved
 
2014-01-09 01:40:32 PM  
I feel bad for the family, but this is getting grotesque and really needs to stop.
 
2014-01-09 01:49:10 PM  
This is happening in my neck o'the woods, so I get frequent updates on it. This sad situation is a direct result of faith trumping science (mother has been quoted as saying, "I know my daughter is alive! I just know it!) and a convoluted legal system that prevents the hospital from discussing their side with the family or the family's lawyers because the case is still open. They also can't address the media, because the family's lawyers have advised them to enforce privacy laws, rather than have a public discussion. Then, the family says, "They won't tell us how this happened!!!!" and the hospital says "They won't let us tell you what's going on!!!" So it's just a big clusterfark.

Having seen my parents deal with this sort of incredibly difficult decision after my sister was in a serious car accident, believe me, I feel for the parents. But they're just delaying the inevitable for no reason other than "becuz mraclez!!!" Unlike the Schiavo case, there isn't even a legal reason to keep her alive. That poor girl should be with God right now :-(
 
2014-01-09 01:54:25 PM  

Mitch Taylor's Bro: Unlike the Schiavo case, there isn't even a legal reason to keep her alive. That poor girl should be with God right now :-(


Schiavo is a whole different can of worms.  She was in a persistent vegetative state, that whole thing was highly debatable.  This poor girl is flat out absolutely brain dead and her brain tissue has probably already started to deteriorate.  There is absolutely not even a 1 in a trillion chance of a miracle.  To bring her back would be in all ways bringing back the dead.

But again, it's really hard to point fingers at a grieving family who refuses to accept this fact.
 
2014-01-09 02:09:10 PM  

Mitch Taylor's Bro: This is happening in my neck o'the woods, so I get frequent updates on it. This sad situation is a direct result of faith trumping science (mother has been quoted as saying, "I know my daughter is alive! I just know it!) and a convoluted legal system that prevents the hospital from discussing their side with the family or the family's lawyers because the case is still open. They also can't address the media, because the family's lawyers have advised them to enforce privacy laws, rather than have a public discussion. Then, the family says, "They won't tell us how this happened!!!!" and the hospital says "They won't let us tell you what's going on!!!" So it's just a big clusterfark.

Having seen my parents deal with this sort of incredibly difficult decision after my sister was in a serious car accident, believe me, I feel for the parents. But they're just delaying the inevitable for no reason other than "becuz mraclez!!!" Unlike the Schiavo case, there isn't even a legal reason to keep her alive. That poor girl should be with God right now :-(


If you believe in the concept of a soul that can exist separately from the body, and you believe that brain dead is dead and keeping the blood circulating does not mean "alive," then it can be argued that this child's soul has already discorporated and is already wherever it goes when the earthly body dies.

This is torture for the family, not the child who is already dead. And f*ck everyone who is leading them to believe differently.
 
2014-01-09 02:11:13 PM  
Here now! She says she's not dead!

/ I'm getting better
 
2014-01-09 02:14:06 PM  
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-01-09 02:14:17 PM  
Does she feel happy?
 
2014-01-09 02:15:36 PM  
This is one area where I'm actually actively opposed to religion(and any sort of non-religious dualists), rather than just "meh".  Stop pretending there's a "soul" that's separate from the brain.  This belief is causing real harm to actual people.
 
2014-01-09 02:15:51 PM  
Was she transferred to a better hospital where her condition was upgraded to "alive"?
 
2014-01-09 02:17:03 PM  
Also fark the hospital. "We accidentally killed your daughter so we're going to pull the plug on her LOL!"
/I feel for the family. Personally I would pull the plug but it's up to them.
//My mother says they would have pulled the plug eventually but the hospital decided now. So the family is never going to pull the plug just out of sheer defiance.
/// Also fark the hospital.
 
2014-01-09 02:18:30 PM  
Well, although the kid's a vegetable, I can't help thinking that the hospital that CAUSED THE FARKING BRAIN DEATH shouldn't have any more say in the care decisions, no matter how logical they're being.
 
2014-01-09 02:19:22 PM  

nekom: But again, it's really hard to point fingers at a grieving family who refuses to accept this fact.


Not really. This family is just getting bad advice. People are dangling false hope in front of them instead of reality, and they're taking the bait because that's easier than facing facts.

Like I said, my parents were there. My sister's brain was probably in better shape, but she had serious internal injuries, too. After three days of the news progressively getting worse, the doctor recommended pulling the plug and my parents agreed.

The saddest farking thing in the world is a parent burying their child. But sometimes you have to do what's best, not what's easiest.

/ great, now my allergies are acting up at work. stupid, misty, red eyes.
 
2014-01-09 02:19:37 PM  

nekom: Just an awful situation.  No winners here.


sure there's a winner, the scumbag lawyers bank account

/no offence meant to scumbags
 
2014-01-09 02:20:02 PM  
Good luck storming the castle.
 
2014-01-09 02:21:05 PM  

namegoeshere: Mitch Taylor's Bro: This is happening in my neck o'the woods, so I get frequent updates on it. This sad situation is a direct result of faith trumping science (mother has been quoted as saying, "I know my daughter is alive! I just know it!) and a convoluted legal system that prevents the hospital from discussing their side with the family or the family's lawyers because the case is still open. They also can't address the media, because the family's lawyers have advised them to enforce privacy laws, rather than have a public discussion. Then, the family says, "They won't tell us how this happened!!!!" and the hospital says "They won't let us tell you what's going on!!!" So it's just a big clusterfark.

Having seen my parents deal with this sort of incredibly difficult decision after my sister was in a serious car accident, believe me, I feel for the parents. But they're just delaying the inevitable for no reason other than "becuz mraclez!!!" Unlike the Schiavo case, there isn't even a legal reason to keep her alive. That poor girl should be with God right now :-(

If you believe in the concept of a soul that can exist separately from the body, and you believe that brain dead is dead and keeping the blood circulating does not mean "alive," then it can be argued that this child's soul has already discorporated and is already wherever it goes when the earthly body dies.

This is torture for the family, not the child who is already dead. And f*ck everyone who is leading them to believe differently.


josmarlopes.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-01-09 02:21:37 PM  

Dallymo: xanadian: So, I must've missed the article that explained how a f*#%ing routine operation like a tonsillectomy turned this girl into a vegetable.  Too much blood loss?  Crazy-ass brain-eating infection?  God was at His computer that day?

Adenotonsillectomy, uvulopalatopharyngoplasty and submucous resection of bilateral inferior turbinates.  Too much blood loss post-op.


In layman's terms: They reamed out half her throat and hit (probably) a carotid artery. By the time they could plug it, it was all over.
 
2014-01-09 02:21:46 PM  

g4lt: Well, although the kid's a vegetable, I can't help thinking that the hospital that CAUSED THE FARKING BRAIN DEATH shouldn't have any more say in the care decisions, no matter how logical they're being.


as opposed to the parents who allowed their child to become so dangerously overweight that she needed a very risky surgery to keep from choking to death on herself in the night?
 
2014-01-09 02:22:01 PM  

Ambitwistor: Was she transferred to a better hospital where her condition was upgraded to "alive"?


Heard on the radio the other day: The transfer paperwork was filled out for the transfer of a corpse.
 
2014-01-09 02:22:20 PM  
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-01-09 02:22:43 PM  
Just wait till she finally "die dies" and the family files suit arm and arm with the ACLU
 
2014-01-09 02:23:28 PM  

whither_apophis: Is the laywer related to Trapper John?

/tragic, I can get why her folks don't want to let her go
//she's gone
///TFSM Congress isn't involved


It's early, yet. Give them a little while.
 
2014-01-09 02:23:42 PM  
Empathy on FARK?

/where am I?
//there is hope for us.
 
2014-01-09 02:24:32 PM  

thatboyoverthere: Also fark the hospital. "We accidentally killed your daughter so we're going to pull the plug on her LOL!"


g4lt: Well, although the kid's a vegetable, I can't help thinking that the hospital that CAUSED THE FARKING BRAIN DEATH shouldn't have any more say in the care decisions, no matter how logical they're being.


These statements make absolutely no sense to me. The kid's dead. Regardless of what the circumstances of her death were, what exactly is the benefit to anybody of keeping a corpse on life support? Do we dig up murder victims and force criminals to pay for their dialysis and skin treatments?
 
2014-01-09 02:27:46 PM  
img.fark.net

But can she still dance?
 
2014-01-09 02:28:04 PM  
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-01-09 02:28:12 PM  

g4lt: Well, although the kid's a vegetable, I can't help thinking that the hospital that CAUSED THE FARKING BRAIN DEATH shouldn't have any more say in the care decisions, no matter how logical they're being.


There is no such thing as a no-risk surgery, and even if the family claims that they weren't told of the risks, you can bet they signed paperwork informing them otherwise.

And this is not a care decision. It's a decision on what to do with a dead body.
 
2014-01-09 02:28:18 PM  
"Three doctors determined Jahi is dead due to brain death, but her family believes that she is alive because her heart and lungs are functioning. The family won court approval to force Children's Hospital to keep Jahi connected to the ventilator and then to move her to a new facility that planned to give her a feeding tube and tracheostomy, which her family believes will give Jahi a chance for recovery. "

Recovery from brain death. Erm.... yeah.
 
2014-01-09 02:28:24 PM  

g4lt: Well, although the kid's a vegetable, I can't help thinking that the hospital that CAUSED THE FARKING BRAIN DEATH shouldn't have any more say in the care decisions, no matter how logical they're being.


All surgeries carry risks, and any time you have surgery, you sign all kinds of shiat saying you understand the risks. Bad outcomes can occur if everything goes absolutely correctly. The body is not a machine. The child was obese, which probably contributed to the necessity of the surgery if not to the poor outcome. We do not have all the information as to the girl's condition (we do not know if a CPap was tried and failed, or if this surgery was to avoid or terminate the use of a CPap)  but we do know that the child was given invasive surgery to treat her sleep apnea instead of being made to lose weight as a treatment. Her parents allowed her to become obese which is a known contributing factor for sleep apnea, the condition that the surgery was supposed to treat.

There have also been reports (and I can't find confirmation but it was mentioned in past threads) that her parents fed her solid foods which she was not allowed to have post-op.

tl/dr : There is no evidence at this time that a medical mistake was made.
 
2014-01-09 02:28:46 PM  

pounddawg: Empathy on FARK?

/where am I?
//there is hope for us.


You'd have to be a pretty big asshole to not feel bad about a dead corpse on life support being taken on tour across the country because $$$$
 
2014-01-09 02:30:10 PM  
Fark this family for wasting valuable medical resources on a hopeless cause rather then allow those resources to be used on people who actually have a chance
 
2014-01-09 02:30:29 PM  
sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2014-01-09 02:30:42 PM  

nekom: Just an awful situation.  No winners here.



Actually there may be winners if the family would face reality and let her go.  There have to be dozens of sick children who could use her perfectly good organs and tissues out there who could benefit if they would accept she can't come back and give consent to donate her organs.  That way their daughter could live on in some capacity or at least more so than having a machine work her remains for a few weeks or months until infection or something else finally destroys her lungs and heart.  I know it is tough, but her family is spitting in the faces of those families who actually have a chance of saving their children from something curable.  I just hope that Jahi's family changes their mind before its too late to have some benefit (assuming we haven't already reached that point that the organs have degraded to such an extent as to be non-viable).
 
2014-01-09 02:31:04 PM  

thatboyoverthere: Also fark the hospital. "We accidentally killed your daughter so we're going to pull the plug on her LOL!"
/I feel for the family. Personally I would pull the plug but it's up to them.
//My mother says they would have pulled the plug eventually but the hospital decided now. So the family is never going to pull the plug just out of sheer defiance.
/// Also fark the hospital.


Pretty sure the hospital isn't LOLing about this. Mistakes DO happen, and they are going to have one hell of a malpractice suit on their hands, but the decision to take her off the ventilator was confirmed by multiple doctors, including a court-appointed neurologist.
 
2014-01-09 02:31:16 PM  

namegoeshere: Mitch Taylor's Bro: This is happening in my neck o'the woods, so I get frequent updates on it. This sad situation is a direct result of faith trumping science (mother has been quoted as saying, "I know my daughter is alive! I just know it!) and a convoluted legal system that prevents the hospital from discussing their side with the family or the family's lawyers because the case is still open. They also can't address the media, because the family's lawyers have advised them to enforce privacy laws, rather than have a public discussion. Then, the family says, "They won't tell us how this happened!!!!" and the hospital says "They won't let us tell you what's going on!!!" So it's just a big clusterfark.

Having seen my parents deal with this sort of incredibly difficult decision after my sister was in a serious car accident, believe me, I feel for the parents. But they're just delaying the inevitable for no reason other than "becuz mraclez!!!" Unlike the Schiavo case, there isn't even a legal reason to keep her alive. That poor girl should be with God right now :-(

If you believe in the concept of a soul that can exist separately from the body, and you believe that brain dead is dead and keeping the blood circulating does not mean "alive," then it can be argued that this child's soul has already discorporated and is already wherever it goes when the earthly body dies.

This is torture for the family, not the child who is already dead. And f*ck everyone who is leading them to believe differently.


I'm reading a book (A Man of Misconceptions) on Athanasius Kircher.  At several points in his life he has a near-death experience.  In writing about one of them he is quoted:

Amid "the crashing of the falling tiles and creaking of the gaping wall," Kircher prepared to hand over his soul, even sensed it being "loosened from its corporeal fetters in order to take hold of the enjoyment of an unsullied existence."

I loved the way he put that and I highlighted it.  Your use of "discorporated" reminded me of it and I'm glad I got to break it out!

/but yeah this is sad, she gone, let her go.
 
2014-01-09 02:33:13 PM  

maltedmothball: nekom: Just an awful situation. No winners here.

sure there's a winner, the scumbag lawyers bank account

/no offence meant to scumbags


The sad fact is that when they sue the doctors and hospital, they will argue that she has to be on a ventilator and feeding tube for the rest of her "life" and they'd probably get experts to argue that this would cost like $500k a year times what, 50 years?  So then the hospital has to pay that amount of money up front plus money for pain and suffering, plus wrongful death and any other survivor actions because it will be hard to argue that they didn't do something wrong.  Then the lawyers take their third, and then the girl "dies" anyway because she's already dead and all those future medical bills that got built into the settlement never have to be paid because they're gonna have a funeral instead.  This case is a goldmine for the lawyers and the family, but it's important that her future medical bills are astronomical in order to reap the maximum benefits.
 
2014-01-09 02:33:33 PM  

Bob Falfa: No. Her parents just can't let her go.
Very sad.


Never underestimate the power of denial
 
Displayed 50 of 313 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter





In Other Media


Report