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(Patch)   Sure, he could've made sure the gun was unloaded before cleaning it, but where's the challenge in that?   (barrow.patch.com) divider line 127
    More: Dumbass, accidental discharge, gunshots  
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3333 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Jan 2014 at 10:05 AM (37 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-09 09:18:42 AM
FFS people. Quit playing with your goddamn guns at home. Buy a farking airsoft if you want to play mall ninja in your living room.
 
2014-01-09 09:20:54 AM
"Treat every firearm as if it is loaded."  Fairly clear.  Who goes jerking on the trigger without checking the weapon clear?

F'n morons, that's who, just like that state rep from Kentucky yesterday.
 
2014-01-09 09:22:44 AM
American people problems.
 
2014-01-09 09:31:15 AM
But no, we shouldn't have a conversation about who should and should not be owning guns in this country.
 
2014-01-09 09:53:18 AM

factoryconnection: "Treat every firearm as if it is loaded."  Fairly clear.  Who goes jerking on the trigger without checking the weapon clear?

F'n morons, that's who, just like that state rep from Kentucky yesterday.


More to the point, how do clean a gun without unloading it first?

/like drewogatory pointed out above, "cleaning" in this case is code for "playing"
 
2014-01-09 09:55:33 AM

cameroncrazy1984: But no, we shouldn't have a conversation about who should and should not be owning guns in this country.


Guess what? If you want to try and overturn the 2nd, have at it. Otherwise you don't get to decide who is and isn't able to exercise their constitutionally guaranteed right.
 
2014-01-09 10:05:06 AM

drewogatory: cameroncrazy1984: But no, we shouldn't have a conversation about who should and should not be owning guns in this country.

Guess what? If you want to try and overturn the 2nd, have at it. Otherwise you don't get to decide who is and isn't able to exercise their constitutionally guaranteed right.


reckless discharge of a firearm is usually a felony, as long as people are being prosecuted for this shiat it's a more or less self-correcting problem.
 
2014-01-09 10:08:17 AM
and religious zealots say Darwin was wrong

/claim your award
 
2014-01-09 10:08:19 AM
I think the moral here is: never, ever clean a gun.
 
2014-01-09 10:10:30 AM
"It went off while I was cleaning it!" is translated to English as "I was waving it around like a dumbass while it was loaded". It's virtually impossible for a gun to go off during cleaning because Step 1 is REMOVE THE GODDAM BULLETS.

/lib
//gun owner
 
2014-01-09 10:11:01 AM

drewogatory: cameroncrazy1984: But no, we shouldn't have a conversation about who should and should not be owning guns in this country.

Guess what? If you want to try and overturn the 2nd, have at it. Otherwise you don't get to decide who is and isn't able to exercise their constitutionally guaranteed right.


Go dry your shorts. He said, "...have a conversation..."
 
2014-01-09 10:11:54 AM
Got a neighbor you don't like?

"DON'T WORRY, IT'S NOT LOADED! SEE?"

BANG!

Problem solved and they CAN'T press charges, right?
 
2014-01-09 10:12:33 AM
" Off the kitchen table...........through a window frame, ...........across two yards .........across the garage .......Through the drywall ......into the neighbor's wall.....nothing but net.

compass.ups.com
 
2014-01-09 10:13:32 AM

Paul Baumer: "It went off while I was cleaning it!" is translated to English as "I was waving it around like a dumbass while it was loaded". It's virtually impossible for a gun to go off during cleaning because Step 1 is REMOVE THE GODDAM BULLETS.

/lib
//gun owner


you'd be surprised how many people forget the first step

/let alone those who think there aren't any rules to follow with guns
 
2014-01-09 10:14:12 AM
It's impossible for a firearm to go off while cleaning it.
It can go off when you're beginning to take it down for cleaning and don't clear the chamber.
It can go off when you're wiping it down and don't clear the chamber.
It can go off when you're monkeying around with it, and don't clear the chamber.
There is no firearm in existence, however, that can be cleaned with a round still in the chamber.
 
2014-01-09 10:14:33 AM
Not a gun owner. It sounds like it was a pretty powerful round, no? What kind of ammo, do you think?
 
2014-01-09 10:15:21 AM
It wasn't accidental, as the article's headline says. It was negligent. He should be charged and prosecuted.
 
2014-01-09 10:15:36 AM
through an interior wall, exterior siding and lodged in another exterior wall.

And THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is why birdshot and a shotgun are the ideal home defense firearm set up, and NOT a hi powered pistol round or an assault weapon like an AR-15 or AK-47. If you managed to fark up your life so badly that you need a firearm in the home to defend yourself, THIS is what you should have.

images.tribe.net

Hope we're all crystal clear on that by now.

.
 
2014-01-09 10:16:02 AM

cameroncrazy1984: But no, we shouldn't have a conversation about who should and should not be owning guns in this country.


Sure.  Everyone should be owning guns.
 
2014-01-09 10:16:05 AM

drewogatory: Guess what? If you want to try and overturn the 2nd, have at it. Otherwise you don't get to decide who is and isn't able to exercise their constitutionally guaranteed right.


Question I've never gotten a good answer for:  If, hypothetically, the second amendment was never included in the bill of rights and American gun fetishism didn't exist, what argument would you make in the year 2014 that we should pass a gun rights amendment now?

Less hypothetical version: Tell me why England (for example) should change its ways and make guns much more easily available.  Optionally: Explain why no one in England is trying to do this right now.


And if you can't answer that question, then explain how "b..b..but second amendment" is different from any other group of zealots imposing their dangerous behavior on the world around them just because their sacred text of choice tells them they can.
 
2014-01-09 10:16:07 AM

Schmerd1948: Not a gun owner. It sounds like it was a pretty powerful round, no? What kind of ammo, do you think?


Take your pick. http://www.theboxotruth.com/
 
2014-01-09 10:18:00 AM

drewogatory: Guess what? If you want to try and overturn the 2nd, have at it. Otherwise you don't get to decide who is and isn't able to exercise their constitutionally guaranteed right.


And yet we remove other rights all the time when people break the law.

I assume you're fine, of course, with this map receiving a hefty jail sentence?
 
2014-01-09 10:23:27 AM

dookdookdook: drewogatory: Guess what? If you want to try and overturn the 2nd, have at it. Otherwise you don't get to decide who is and isn't able to exercise their constitutionally guaranteed right.

Question I've never gotten a good answer for:  If, hypothetically, the second amendment was never included in the bill of rights and American gun fetishism didn't exist, what argument would you make in the year 2014 that we should pass a gun rights amendment now?

Less hypothetical version: Tell me why England (for example) should change its ways and make guns much more easily available.  Optionally: Explain why no one in England is trying to do this right now.


And if you can't answer that question, then explain how "b..b..but second amendment" is different from any other group of zealots imposing their dangerous behavior on the world around them just because their sacred text of choice tells them they can.


Both those questions are irrelevant. The fact is, the constitution is and has been the law of the land since the founding. And there is a provision to change it if you don't like it. Otherwise quit infringing on ANY part of it.
 
2014-01-09 10:23:57 AM
Should be a law that says that all registered gun owners should take a gun safety /range safety class. Seriously. He was probably playing with it loaded, not cleaning it. Moran.
 
2014-01-09 10:24:28 AM

Schmerd1948: Not a gun owner. It sounds like it was a pretty powerful round, no? What kind of ammo, do you think?


You'd be surprised what a bullet goes through. Check out youtube, I saw a video the other day of guys doing penetration tests on steel plate. Despite what ever movie ever has shown with guys hiding behind car doors or refrigerators made of sheet metal, regular old rifle ammo goes right though half-inch steel plate with no problem at all.

Even handguns go through quite a bit.

http://youtu.be/h3XNWU8xaxk
 
2014-01-09 10:26:45 AM
Yet another in a long string of isolated incidents.

And I'm sure this type of thing is always reported and the perpetrators properly punished.
 
2014-01-09 10:28:12 AM

dookdookdook: drewogatory: Guess what? If you want to try and overturn the 2nd, have at it. Otherwise you don't get to decide who is and isn't able to exercise their constitutionally guaranteed right.

Question I've never gotten a good answer for:  If, hypothetically, the second amendment was never included in the bill of rights and American gun fetishism didn't exist, what argument would you make in the year 2014 that we should pass a gun rights amendment now?

Less hypothetical version: Tell me why England (for example) should change its ways and make guns much more easily available.  Optionally: Explain why no one in England is trying to do this right now.


And if you can't answer that question, then explain how "b..b..but second amendment" is different from any other group of zealots imposing their dangerous behavior on the world around them just because their sacred text of choice tells them they can.


in many areas of the US hunting is essential for controlling the population of pest species like deer.
 
2014-01-09 10:28:58 AM

Ouze: It wasn't accidental, as the article's headline says. It was negligent. He should be charged and prosecuted.


accidental

adjective 1.

happening by chance or accident; not planned; unexpected: an accidental meeting.
 
2014-01-09 10:29:01 AM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Got a neighbor you don't like?

"DON'T WORRY, IT'S NOT LOADED! SEE?"

BANG!

Problem solved and they CAN'T press charges, right?


Wrong. But you go ahead and try it. Let us know how it works out for you.
 
2014-01-09 10:30:42 AM
I think the easiest tell of if a person should have a gun or not is if they get mad dog frothing at the mouth upset if you say they shouldn't have one.
 
2014-01-09 10:31:46 AM

Inflatable Rhetoric: Ouze: It wasn't accidental, as the article's headline says. It was negligent. He should be charged and prosecuted.

accidental

adjective 1.

happening by chance or accident; not planned; unexpected: an accidental meeting.


neg·li·gent
ˈnegləjənt/
adjective
adjective: negligent
1
.
failing to take proper care in doing something.
 IE, "Cleaning" a firearm without checking if it's loaded first.
 
2014-01-09 10:32:29 AM
Schmerd1948


Not a gun owner. It sounds like ...
you know nothing about firearms
 
2014-01-09 10:33:33 AM

drewogatory: Both those questions are irrelevant. The fact is, the constitution is and has been the law of the land since the founding. And there is a provision to change it if you don't like it. Otherwise quit infringing on ANY part of it.


So because the BibleQuranConstitution says so; no rational justification necessary.  Got it.
 
2014-01-09 10:35:41 AM

AgentPothead: Inflatable Rhetoric: Ouze: It wasn't accidental, as the article's headline says. It was negligent. He should be charged and prosecuted.

accidental

adjective 1.

happening by chance or accident; not planned; unexpected: an accidental meeting.

neg·li·gent
ˈnegləjənt/
adjective
adjective: negligent
1.
failing to take proper care in doing something.
 IE, "Cleaning" a firearm without checking if it's loaded first.


St

AgentPothead: Inflatable Rhetoric: Ouze: It wasn't accidental, as the article's headline says. It was negligent. He should be charged and prosecuted.

accidental

adjective 1.

happening by chance or accident; not planned; unexpected: an accidental meeting.

neg·li·gent
ˈnegləjənt/
adjective
adjective: negligent
1.
failing to take proper care in doing something.
 IE, "Cleaning" a firearm without checking if it's loaded first.


It's still accidental.
Why do gun people have a problem with that word, accident?
Traffic accidents, OK.
Falling accidents, OK.
Any sort of accident, except involving a gun, is OK.
 
2014-01-09 10:35:49 AM

ChaosStar: There is no firearm in existence, however, that can be cleaned with a round still in the chamber.


Well, just to be pedantic, you could I suppose:
i660.photobucket.com

But you'll miss a few spots during the cleaning.
 
2014-01-09 10:35:55 AM

willfullyobscure: through an interior wall, exterior siding and lodged in another exterior wall.

And THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is why birdshot and a shotgun are the ideal home defense firearm set up, and NOT a hi powered pistol round or an assault weapon like an AR-15 or AK-47. If you managed to fark up your life so badly that you need a firearm in the home to defend yourself, THIS is what you should have.

[images.tribe.net image 640x480]

Hope we're all crystal clear on that by now.

.


Well, just in case of the Zombie Apocalypse, I'm aiming to get my hands on this one...

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-01-09 10:37:01 AM

Schmerd1948: Not a gun owner. It sounds like it was a pretty powerful round, no? What kind of ammo, do you think?


Eh, ricochets can do some weird stuff.  But yeah, the fact that it then went through the window frame and subsequent siding...probably a peppy round like a 9mm full metal jacket, which has a tendency to penetrate rather than hit-and-expand (thus stopping).
 
2014-01-09 10:37:16 AM

AgentPothead: Inflatable Rhetoric: Ouze: It wasn't accidental, as the article's headline says. It was negligent. He should be charged and prosecuted.

accidental

adjective 1.

happening by chance or accident; not planned; unexpected: an accidental meeting.

neg·li·gent
ˈnegləjənt/
adjective
adjective: negligent
1.
failing to take proper care in doing something.
 IE, "Cleaning" a firearm without checking if it's loaded first.


accidental is not a term of legal significance.  negligence, on the other hand, is a term of art (meaning, it has a specific legal definition, regardless of what a normal lexicon might suggest)

when discussing a potential legal liability, it's more appropriate to use the legal term than the lay term.  regardless if the lay term would also satisfactorily describe the event.

while "negligence" is the more appropriate word in the context, that does not mean "accidental" is incorrect.  the terms are not mutually exclusive.
 
2014-01-09 10:37:43 AM

drewogatory: cameroncrazy1984: But no, we shouldn't have a conversation about who should and should not be owning guns in this country.

Guess what? If you want to try and overturn the 2nd, have at it. Otherwise you don't get to decide who is and isn't able to exercise their constitutionally guaranteed right.


Kids under 10 can't.  Felons can't.  We already decide.
 
2014-01-09 10:38:33 AM

dookdookdook: drewogatory: Both those questions are irrelevant. The fact is, the constitution is and has been the law of the land since the founding. And there is a provision to change it if you don't like it. Otherwise quit infringing on ANY part of it.

So because the BibleQuranConstitution says so; no rational justification necessary.  Got it.


Because it's an intrinsic right no justification is necessary.

Also, the rest of you stop thinking that the Constitution gives you rights.  You have these rights regardless of what a piece of paper says.  Get that through your thick skulls and maybe we can stop this country from completely devolving into a totalitarian police state.
 
2014-01-09 10:39:21 AM

mod3072: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Got a neighbor you don't like?

"DON'T WORRY, IT'S NOT LOADED! SEE?"

BANG!

Problem solved and they CAN'T press charges, right?

Wrong. But you go ahead and try it. Let us know how it works out for you.


Someone's been charged under those circumstances?
 
2014-01-09 10:39:58 AM

willfullyobscure: through an interior wall, exterior siding and lodged in another exterior wall.

And THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is why birdshot and a shotgun are the ideal home defense firearm set up, and NOT a hi powered pistol round or an assault weapon like an AR-15 or AK-47. If you managed to fark up your life so badly that you need a firearm in the home to defend yourself, THIS is what you should have.

[images.tribe.net image 640x480]

Hope we're all crystal clear on that by now.

.

Hey, you know what's easier to control, especially for smaller-framed people?  An AR-15 or AK-47.  Birdshot is great with the ideal of stopping over-penetration, but you can also get good 5.56x45mm or 7.62x39mm that fragments and stops pretty quickly.

Besides, why the extra rounds?  After all, all you have to do is go out on your porch and shoot two shots into the air; that'll drive off those home invaders!
 
2014-01-09 10:41:34 AM

Inflatable Rhetoric: Traffic accidents, OK.


most car accidents aren't. My experience is that they're usually caused by gross negligence on the part of one or more of the parties involved.

/sure I was texting and speeding and I forgot to turn on my headlights and it was raining and foggy and I was arguing with my passenger and I drifted onto the hard shoulder but the accident was totally something that just happened, act of god, no way I could have prevented it.
 
2014-01-09 10:42:10 AM

pute kisses like a man: AgentPothead: Inflatable Rhetoric: Ouze: It wasn't accidental, as the article's headline says. It was negligent. He should be charged and prosecuted.

accidental

adjective 1.

happening by chance or accident; not planned; unexpected: an accidental meeting.

neg·li·gent
ˈnegləjənt/
adjective
adjective: negligent
1.
failing to take proper care in doing something.
 IE, "Cleaning" a firearm without checking if it's loaded first.

accidental is not a term of legal significance.  negligence, on the other hand, is a term of art (meaning, it has a specific legal definition, regardless of what a normal lexicon might suggest)

when discussing a potential legal liability, it's more appropriate to use the legal term than the lay term.  regardless if the lay term would also satisfactorily describe the event.

while "negligence" is the more appropriate word in the context, that does not mean "accidental" is incorrect.  the terms are not mutually exclusive.


I understand all of that, which is why I linked the definition of the word negligent. I never said that the word accidental was incorrect.
 
2014-01-09 10:42:53 AM

Voiceofreason01: Inflatable Rhetoric: Traffic accidents, OK.

most car accidents aren't. My experience is that they're usually caused by gross negligence on the part of one or more of the parties involved.

/sure I was texting and speeding and I forgot to turn on my headlights and it was raining and foggy and I was arguing with my passenger and I drifted onto the hard shoulder but the accident was totally something that just happened, act of god, no way I could have prevented it.


It still fits the definition of accident.
 
2014-01-09 10:45:21 AM

Inflatable Rhetoric: Voiceofreason01: Inflatable Rhetoric: Traffic accidents, OK.

most car accidents aren't. My experience is that they're usually caused by gross negligence on the part of one or more of the parties involved.

/sure I was texting and speeding and I forgot to turn on my headlights and it was raining and foggy and I was arguing with my passenger and I drifted onto the hard shoulder but the accident was totally something that just happened, act of god, no way I could have prevented it.

It still fits the definition of accident.


pedantic and you missed the joke. :-(
 
2014-01-09 10:46:06 AM

Inflatable Rhetoric: AgentPothead: Inflatable Rhetoric: Ouze: It wasn't accidental, as the article's headline says. It was negligent. He should be charged and prosecuted.

accidental

adjective 1.

happening by chance or accident; not planned; unexpected: an accidental meeting.

neg·li·gent
ˈnegləjənt/
adjective
adjective: negligent
1.
failing to take proper care in doing something.
 IE, "Cleaning" a firearm without checking if it's loaded first.

StAgentPothead: Inflatable Rhetoric: Ouze: It wasn't accidental, as the article's headline says. It was negligent. He should be charged and prosecuted.

accidental

adjective 1.

happening by chance or accident; not planned; unexpected: an accidental meeting.

neg·li·gent
ˈnegləjənt/
adjective
adjective: negligent
1.
failing to take proper care in doing something.
 IE, "Cleaning" a firearm without checking if it's loaded first.

It's still accidental.
Why do gun people have a problem with that word, accident?
Traffic accidents, OK.
Falling accidents, OK.
Any sort of accident, except involving a gun, is OK.


I don't have a problem with the word accident, I was pointing out the word negligent much better defines the case in hand. All gun owners are taught how to responsibly use their firearms. If somebody tries and reload their gun without checking if it's chambered, that's negligence not an accident. If they fire the gun in the house, that's negligence not an accident. The only way to fire a gun is to remove the safety and to have it loaded, both things you are taught not to do until you are ready to fire. I love accidents. That hole in the condom that made me? Awesome accident. Mishandling a firearm is negligence.
 
2014-01-09 10:46:24 AM

Inflatable Rhetoric: Why do gun people have a problem with that word, accident?


It really depends on how you want to look at it. If you're driving drunk and crash should it really be considered an accident?

The word "accident" typically implies that there was some lack of foreseeability involved in the outcome. Like getting blitzed and going for a joyride, cleaning a gun with a round chambered has entirely foreseeable and obvious consequences and suffering those consequences requires that you ignore them almost entirely and act with a willful disregard for yourself, your property and the safety and property of people around you.

I think it's VERY useful to disabuse people of the notion that these sorts of incidents are accidents. The gun fanatics always want to screech about responsibility. The constant stories of those same people cleaning guns with live rounds in them, leaving the guns within the reach of children, and just generally being willfully negligent are reduced in their severity if they're treated as accidents instead of what they should be: negligent criminal acts.

It's not an accident. It's proof that the argument of implicit responsibility in gun ownership is largely bullshiat and that these people cannot be trusted to be responsible with their firearms without the threat of serious and irrevocable consequences hanging over them.

These aren't accidents, they're willful acts that put other people in danger, they should be prosecuted as such, and they should result in a permanent ban on firearm ownership for the people who commit them upon conviction.

/ same goes for drunk drivers and their licenses
 
2014-01-09 10:48:00 AM
You need to make your suicide look like an accident so your family can collect the insurance policy. Cleaning your gun is a good solution.
 
2014-01-09 10:49:18 AM
I had a co-worker put a hole though his hand while cleaning his gun once. He though it was empty, had the barrel against his palm, pulled the trigger.... Lucky for him he didn't completely destroy the ligaments in his hand and he was able to have it repaired.
 
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