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(ESPN)   Dan Le Batard Stands on his soap box in protest of other writers standing on their soap box... and then actually makes a pretty good point   (espn.go.com) divider line 96
    More: Unlikely, Dan Le Batard, Greg Maddux, Craig Biggio, Josh Krulewitz, Jeff Bagwell, Michael Wilbon, steroid era, Baseball Hall of Fame  
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1831 clicks; posted to Sports » on 09 Jan 2014 at 10:43 AM (28 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-09 09:36:21 AM
We wouldn't want to make baseball an exciting sport through science or anything.
 
2014-01-09 10:00:35 AM
Just stopped by to say I have really gotten to like the Dan Le Batard show.

If only his name had one more 's' it would be sooooo cool.
 
2014-01-09 10:31:44 AM
Sounds like a real Batard.
 
2014-01-09 10:49:47 AM

dittybopper: Sounds like a real Batard.


That's probably the most badass French name I've ever seen.
 
2014-01-09 10:59:56 AM
Dan is frustratingly good at making good points.
 
2014-01-09 11:02:31 AM
The hand-wringing by other voters has been amusing. I hope none of them stray too far from their fainting couch.
 
2014-01-09 11:04:22 AM
More like Le Petard, in this case.
 
2014-01-09 11:08:25 AM

SilentStrider: Dan is frustratingly good at making good points.


That is a great way of putting it. I can't stand the guy. I see him on TV and I usually want to change the channel. Yet, he's right more often than not. And he's right in this case.
 
2014-01-09 11:08:47 AM
The difference between the PTI and ATH reaction to the story was funny to watch.

Tony and Mike came off sounding old, out of touch, and not understanding what Dan did.
 
2014-01-09 11:14:47 AM

Gunny Highway: The difference between the PTI and ATH reaction to the story was funny to watch.

Tony and Mike came off sounding old, out of touch, and not understanding what Dan did.


Which is funny, because isn't DlB the fill-in guy when Wilbon has to recharge his Chicago-batteries or when Kornheiser needs to update his slang generator to be current with 2004?
 
2014-01-09 11:16:49 AM

Dr Dreidel: Gunny Highway: The difference between the PTI and ATH reaction to the story was funny to watch.

Tony and Mike came off sounding old, out of touch, and not understanding what Dan did.

Which is funny, because isn't DlB the fill-in guy when Wilbon has to recharge his Chicago-batteries or when Kornheiser needs to update his slang generator to be current with 2004?


Le Batard has his own show now so he's no longer the main sub.
 
2014-01-09 11:16:52 AM
Outside of the baseball writers and associated media whores who have weighed in with just a pinch more outrage about this than your garden variety outrage, not a single fark was given.
 
2014-01-09 11:30:51 AM
Scott Garceau (Baltimore Sports Radio) talked about it this morning and made a really good point that I'm totally going to butcher.

The MLB HoF is broken. There are no set criteria, and most of the people involved in the selection process are out of touch with baseball. It has become an old white guy's club and significantly lacks credibility. While he didn't agree with how Le Betard did it, he agreed with the sentiment.
 
2014-01-09 11:39:03 AM

desertgeek: Dr Dreidel: Gunny Highway: The difference between the PTI and ATH reaction to the story was funny to watch.

Tony and Mike came off sounding old, out of touch, and not understanding what Dan did.

Which is funny, because isn't DlB the fill-in guy when Wilbon has to recharge his Chicago-batteries or when Kornheiser needs to update his slang generator to be current with 2004?

Le Batard has his own show now so he's no longer the main sub.


Which gives us shiatlock!
 
2014-01-09 11:39:10 AM
I dont remember jon heyman throwing a tantrum at whichever writer voted for Gil Meche for the HOF,
 
2014-01-09 11:46:47 AM

Dinobot: I dont remember jon heyman throwing a tantrum at whichever writer voted for Gil Meche for the HOF,


Jon Heyman is a jackass more often than not. He's really good at getting scoops, but his opinion type columns are usually pompous.

I got in a twitter cat fight with Tracy Ringolsby the day that Ken Gurnick turned in that sorry assed Jack Morris ballot. I wonder how he felt about LeBetard's ballot? And to be fair, Mr. Ringolsby had a great ballot.
 
2014-01-09 11:49:08 AM

IamKaiserSoze!!!: Just stopped by to say I have really gotten to like the Dan Le Batard show.

If only his name had one more 's' it would be sooooo cool.



Si!  Si!  I'm very intrigued!
 
2014-01-09 11:49:46 AM

funk_soul_bubby: Which gives us shiatlock!



Damn it so much I hate him.
 
2014-01-09 11:52:27 AM
The interesting thing is that despite all the soap-boxing and hand-wringing, the writers did a pretty good job this year. Three very deserving people got in, the most that have gotten in at a time in a while. The whole PED discussion isn't restricted JUST to them, so them not having a handle on it any more than we do really shouldn't be cause to crucify them. It's a problem that needs to be resolved of course, one way or the other, but until then lurching from position to position like a drunk between bars is to be expected.

They're kind of like the BCS. We biatch and moan and argue about it - but in the end it always somehow worked out. There's always some borderline team/candidate that maybe should have (Boise State/Jack Morris) but that's going to exist regardless of the system in place (it will next year when the secret committee releases their list, it does when the Veterans let in their buddies - or no one).
 
2014-01-09 12:03:09 PM

INeedAName: Scott Garceau (Baltimore Sports Radio) talked about it this morning and made a really good point that I'm totally going to butcher.

The MLB HoF is broken. There are no set criteria, and most of the people involved in the selection process are out of touch with baseball. It has become an old white guy's club and significantly lacks credibility. While he didn't agree with how Le Betard did it, he agreed with the sentiment.


I have a lot of trouble getting worked up over the PEDs and keeping players out of the HOF when you have guys like Mike Schmidt and Willie Mays in who have admitted to using amphetamines when they were playing. Selig's known about them forever and Ueberroth saw players testify in court about using them.

Having a guy like Gaylord Perry, who co-wrote a book called "Me and the Spitter" ten years before he retired, getting inducted into the HOF is just icing on the cake.
 
2014-01-09 12:03:58 PM
I'm not a fan of his show, but my respect for him went up exponentially last night when I saw the story on Deadspin.

Baseball writers are mostly old, sanctimonious assholes.  And, as he noted, they're laughably uninformed.  Looking forward to hearing the nonsense they'll throw at him.
 
2014-01-09 12:08:43 PM

Gunny Highway: The difference between the PTI and ATH reaction to the story was funny to watch.

Tony and Mike came off sounding old, out of touch, and not understanding what Dan did.


Except he did do nothing wrong since he did vote for Biggio.  So...not his fault and I don't understand either why people are on his shiat.
 
2014-01-09 12:15:43 PM
well, that article was Batarded.

/cant believe im the first
 
2014-01-09 12:19:51 PM

RickyWilliams'sBong: I'm not a fan of his show, but my respect for him went up exponentially last night when I saw the story on Deadspin.

Baseball writers are mostly old, sanctimonious assholes.  And, as he noted, they're laughably uninformed.  Looking forward to hearing the nonsense they'll throw at him.


The BBWAA as a whole, can eat shiat and die AFAIC.  They had no problems with guys hitting balls out of the yard like it was going out of style because, you know, headlines.  They celebrated what the likes of McGwire, Bonds and Sosa were doing and when one St. Louis Post-Dispatch reporter got inqusitive about what McGwire had in his locker (read: a bottle of andro), they crucified him.

Fark. Them. All.
 
2014-01-09 12:29:01 PM

desertgeek: SilentStrider: Dan is frustratingly good at making good points.

That is a great way of putting it. I can't stand the guy. I see him on TV and I usually want to change the channel. Yet, he's right more often than not. And he's right in this case.


This, except I just don't agree with his rationale on steroid use in baseball and how fans react to it. As a big fan of the sport, damaging the integrity of the sport by using steroids, fixing games, or violating any of the many unwritten rules that we all learn by playing the sport through our lives, is the ultimate crime in the game. Of course they vary in severity, but using steroids, IMHO, disqualifies you from being mentioned in the same breath as some of the all-time greats.

I really don't care what you took, why you took it, or what real effect it had on your performance, it just means you are no longer a natural, authentic baseball player. The real damage done by steroids to the sport, however, is trying to determine who actually did use them and who is just guilty by association with the 'steroid era'.

The 10 vote limit does sound stupid though....
 
2014-01-09 12:36:01 PM

Jmb5346: damaging the integrity of the sport by using steroids


The sport's integrity is not damaged by using steroids.

Jmb5346: you are no longer a natural, authentic baseball player.


This goes along with my theory that baseball fans are basically religious about baseball. Scientific improvements are shunned and what would normally be called "god-given" abilities are the only ones that they think should be allowed.

/and duh, subby, if you ever disagree with baseball writers as a whole, you're going to be right 99.9% of the time.
 
2014-01-09 12:38:28 PM
A natural, authentic baseball player? A drug cheat from the 1880s is in the hall of fame.

The damage done by the steroid era is the pearl clutching fuddy duddies who can't deal with the fact that baseball did not in fact attain perfection in the so-called golden age (psst when everyone was on amphetamines)
 
2014-01-09 12:39:39 PM

ladodger34: Dinobot: I dont remember jon heyman throwing a tantrum at whichever writer voted for Gil Meche for the HOF,

Jon Heyman is a jackass more often than not. He's really good at getting scoops, but his opinion type columns are usually pompous.

I got in a twitter cat fight with Tracy Ringolsby the day that Ken Gurnick turned in that sorry assed Jack Morris ballot. I wonder how he felt about LeBetard's ballot? And to be fair, Mr. Ringolsby had a great ballot.


I just don't get Heyman's outrage, specially for being so hypocrite.

It's not like the ballot was filled with scrubs; the ballot was pretty solid -- whoever voted for JT Snow and left Maddux out of his ballot made a bigger mockery of the HOF selection than Le Batard did.
 
2014-01-09 12:42:06 PM

Jmb5346: desertgeek: SilentStrider: Dan is frustratingly good at making good points.

That is a great way of putting it. I can't stand the guy. I see him on TV and I usually want to change the channel. Yet, he's right more often than not. And he's right in this case.

This, except I just don't agree with his rationale on steroid use in baseball and how fans react to it. As a big fan of the sport, damaging the integrity of the sport by using steroids, fixing games, or violating any of the many unwritten rules that we all learn by playing the sport through our lives, is the ultimate crime in the game. Of course they vary in severity, but using steroids, IMHO, disqualifies you from being mentioned in the same breath as some of the all-time greats.

I really don't care what you took, why you took it, or what real effect it had on your performance, it just means you are no longer a natural, authentic baseball player. The real damage done by steroids to the sport, however, is trying to determine who actually did use them and who is just guilty by association with the 'steroid era'.

The 10 vote limit does sound stupid though....


when i think of the big major sports in America nowhere does "integrity" come to mind.  good or bad, none of these sports should be making PR statements about how that is important to them.  im willing to watch some of them knowing full well whatever integrity they hope/think they have was lost on me a long time ago.  and if i want kids playing these sports it isnt for the love or emulation of the professional versions but for the activity and actual fun in playing them.  team skills, hard work, etc are good enough reasons to support.  by the time they are teenagers none of this is real disillusionment to them.
 
2014-01-09 12:45:24 PM

Jmb5346: desertgeek: SilentStrider: Dan is frustratingly good at making good points.

That is a great way of putting it. I can't stand the guy. I see him on TV and I usually want to change the channel. Yet, he's right more often than not. And he's right in this case.

This, except I just don't agree with his rationale on steroid use in baseball and how fans react to it. As a big fan of the sport, damaging the integrity of the sport by using steroids, fixing games, or violating any of the many unwritten rules that we all learn by playing the sport through our lives, is the ultimate crime in the game. Of course they vary in severity, but using steroids, IMHO, disqualifies you from being mentioned in the same breath as some of the all-time greats.

I really don't care what you took, why you took it, or what real effect it had on your performance, it just means you are no longer a natural, authentic baseball player. The real damage done by steroids to the sport, however, is trying to determine who actually did use them and who is just guilty by association with the 'steroid era'.

The 10 vote limit does sound stupid though....


Kenesaw Mountain Landis is in the Baseball Hall of Fame despite this:

"Landis perpetuated the color line and prolonged the segregation of organized baseball. His successor, Happy Chandler, said, "For twenty-four years Judge Landis wouldn't let a black man play. I had his records, and I read them, and for twenty-four years Landis consistently blocked any attempts to put blacks and whites together on a big league field."  Bill Veeck claimed Landis prevented him from purchasing the Phillies when Landis learned of Veeck's plan to integrate the team. The signing of the first black ballplayer in the modern era,  Jackie Robinson, came less than a year after Landis's death on Chandler's watch and was engineered by one of Landis's old nemeses, Branch Rickey.  Eleven weeks after Robinson's debut with the Brooklyn Dodgers, Veeck became the first American League owner to break the color line."

If that didn't "damag[e] the integrity of sports" I don't know what else could?
 
2014-01-09 12:50:03 PM

ElwoodCuse: A natural, authentic baseball player? A drug cheat from the 1880s is in the hall of fame.


Baseball writers and fans that say that stuff are the equivalent of fundies.

FFS, it's been 40 years and they haven't gotten over the DH, despite the fact that EVERY LEAGUE IN THE WORLD besides the NL has realized that it's a superior way to play baseball, mostly because some people still haven't figured out that pitchers are already completely different than every other position in the sport - no one else plays once a week (except maybe a knuckleballer's catcher). Or "Hey, relievers, even AL ones (because the 1-2 times an NL reliever might hit per season totally make a difference), get into the HoF despite never hitting or having to pitch full games. And they're often only out there for 3 at-bats, even fewer than a DH. Why can't hitting specialists?"
 
2014-01-09 12:52:11 PM

IAmRight: Jmb5346: damaging the integrity of the sport by using steroids

The sport's integrity is not damaged by using steroids.

Jmb5346: you are no longer a natural, authentic baseball player.

This goes along with my theory that baseball fans are basically religious about baseball. Scientific improvements are shunned and what would normally be called "god-given" abilities are the only ones that they think should be allowed.

/and duh, subby, if you ever disagree with baseball writers as a whole, you're going to be right 99.9% of the time.


Yeah, I agree with the 'religious' description. It's one of the reasons it took so long for instant-replay to enter the game. Sort of the 'if they didn't need it back then, why do we need it' mentality. It's the one sport that romanticizes its history more than any other. It's a good quality to have. It lets fans appreciate the game and players much more. But it certainly has its drawbacks... replay being one.

 But as far as no damage done by steroids? It basically destroys competitive balance and inflates stats for certain players. In any competition, that's damage. I know they say 'everyone was on them', but who knows how Andro effected 1 player more or less than another.

ElwoodCuse: A natural, authentic baseball player? A drug cheat from the 1880s is in the hall of fame.


Yeah, that's a separate issue. And older generations in all sports used amphetamines, but steroids is one we can actively solve now.It doesn't mean we can't strive to avoid any of the past improprieties.
 
2014-01-09 12:58:40 PM
My favorites are the writers who are complaining about the vote being turned over to "unqualified" people
 
2014-01-09 01:00:20 PM
rugman11:  Kenesaw Mountain Landis is in the Baseball Hall of Fame despite this:


Yeah, I won't touch that one.

 I mean I guess I'm just a purist when it comes to baseball. It's the one thing I don't want tainted. I'm a cycling fan, and could care less about doping, or lances lies in that sport. But baseball is America's 'Beautiful Game'. And if withholding athletes from the HOF and developing a thorough drug screening process is the best way to prevent PEDs, I'm all for it.
 
2014-01-09 01:00:41 PM
Lets let in all the racists and druggies and gamblers now. Everybody gets in! Hall of Fame and orange slices for everybody! Its the snowflakes turn to decide what is right and wrong.
 
2014-01-09 01:03:37 PM

mikaloyd: Lets let in all the racists and druggies and gamblers now. Everybody gets in! Hall of Fame and orange slices for everybody! Its the snowflakes turn to decide what is right and wrong.


fark off with this shiat.
 
2014-01-09 01:06:06 PM

Jmb5346: As a big fan of the sport, damaging the integrity of the sport by using steroids, fixing games, or violating any of the many unwritten rules that we all learn by playing the sport through our lives, is the ultimate crime in the game.


I'm not going to disagree with you, but I find it painfully (and perhaps willfully) naïve to clutch pearls about the "integrity" of a multi-billion dollar enterprise.

Also, let's stop blaming only sportswriters for willful ignorance when HRs started flying out of ballparks at alarming rates. Every one of us as fans knew something was probably up given the rumors and chatter, and also only pretended to take stand after the dust had settled.
 
2014-01-09 01:11:01 PM

redmid17: INeedAName: Scott Garceau (Baltimore Sports Radio) talked about it this morning and made a really good point that I'm totally going to butcher.

The MLB HoF is broken. There are no set criteria, and most of the people involved in the selection process are out of touch with baseball. It has become an old white guy's club and significantly lacks credibility. While he didn't agree with how Le Betard did it, he agreed with the sentiment.

I have a lot of trouble getting worked up over the PEDs and keeping players out of the HOF when you have guys like Mike Schmidt and Willie Mays in who have admitted to using amphetamines when they were playing. Selig's known about them forever and Ueberroth saw players testify in court about using them.

Having a guy like Gaylord Perry, who co-wrote a book called "Me and the Spitter" ten years before he retired, getting inducted into the HOF is just icing on the cake.


Amphetamines and steroids have very impacts on sports and a player's ability to consistently perform at a high level long after their body wants to stop.
 
2014-01-09 01:11:36 PM
I watch many shows on this network occasionally, even some of the really bad ones. His show is truly awful. His dad is without a doubt the worst, most annoying thing on sports television. i can't imagine who ever thought either guy was funny at all except for a few older colleagues who were getting drunk with them after Sportscenter or something.
 
2014-01-09 01:11:42 PM

mikaloyd: Lets let in all the racists and druggies and gamblers now. Everybody gets in! Hall of Fame and orange slices for everybody! Its the snowflakes turn to decide what is right and wrong.


That's right.  The peasants should know their place.  Only the Very Serious People(TM) should be allowed to decide.
 
2014-01-09 01:13:04 PM

Jmb5346: rugman11:  Kenesaw Mountain Landis is in the Baseball Hall of Fame despite this:


Yeah, I won't touch that one.

 I mean I guess I'm just a purist when it comes to baseball. It's the one thing I don't want tainted. I'm a cycling fan, and could care less about doping, or lances lies in that sport. But baseball is America's 'Beautiful Game'. And if withholding athletes from the HOF and developing a thorough drug screening process is the best way to prevent PEDs, I'm all for it.


But "pure" baseball wouldn't have black players, free agency, or the Designated Hitter (though YMMV on that last one).  I guess my argument would be that a) "integrity" means different things to different people.  I don't like PEDs and am glad they're testing against them but, as the last year (and Biogenesis) has shown, no testing is going to perfect.  Palmeiro is the only player on that ballot who actually tested positive for PEDs and yet everybody is being held back (even players who have never in any way been implicated) because of it.

Secondly, I think the Hall of Fame is supposed to be a celebration of baseball and a reflection of its history and you can neither celebrate the game nor reflect on its history by closing your eyes, sticking your fingers in your ears, and pretending that the last thirty years didn't happen.  It's a part of the game, just like segregation and the reserve clause were (rules that I believe had far more deleterious effects on the game than PEDs) and it doesn't help anybody to try and just sweep it all under the rug.
 
2014-01-09 01:14:06 PM
I'll be really interested to hear what Dan has/will say on his radio show about this.
 
2014-01-09 01:18:09 PM

INeedAName: redmid17: INeedAName: Scott Garceau (Baltimore Sports Radio) talked about it this morning and made a really good point that I'm totally going to butcher.

The MLB HoF is broken. There are no set criteria, and most of the people involved in the selection process are out of touch with baseball. It has become an old white guy's club and significantly lacks credibility. While he didn't agree with how Le Betard did it, he agreed with the sentiment.

I have a lot of trouble getting worked up over the PEDs and keeping players out of the HOF when you have guys like Mike Schmidt and Willie Mays in who have admitted to using amphetamines when they were playing. Selig's known about them forever and Ueberroth saw players testify in court about using them.

Having a guy like Gaylord Perry, who co-wrote a book called "Me and the Spitter" ten years before he retired, getting inducted into the HOF is just icing on the cake.

Amphetamines and steroids have very impacts on sports and a player's ability to consistently perform at a high level long after their body wants to stop.


Wanna rewrite that sentence so it makes sense?
 
2014-01-09 01:19:26 PM

SilentStrider: Dan is frustratingly good at making good points.


He is the Jose Canseco of sports journalism.
 
2014-01-09 01:24:43 PM
rugman11:  But "pure" baseball wouldn't have black players, free agency, or the Designated Hitter

...and it doesn't help anybody to try and just sweep it all under the rug.


Well, to me 'pure' doesn't mean the way it was originally played back in the mid-19th century. It means fair play. Fair means all inclusive on a level playing field. So non-integrated athletics is certainly not pure.

I also don't think anyone is sweeping it under the rug at this point. The almanacs will have all of Barry Bonds' statistics. They will  never go away. But holding him, and others out, can send a message to current and potential PED users.
 
2014-01-09 01:31:29 PM

Lost Thought 00: My favorites are the writers who are complaining about the vote being turned over to "unqualified" people


Deadspin collected all the whining and it is glorious...

http://deadspin.com/the-angry-things-writers-are-saying-about-our-ha ll -of-f-1497810100

Most of these guys have no good argument why what LeBatard was wrong, so instead they just bash Deadspin.  While I don't like the gossipy stuff that they do, that site has done some legit journalism work over the past few years.  Also, the ballot is legit, the fans who voted weren't looking to troll the HOF with undeserving players to make a point like many "qualified" voters have done.

And the "unqualified" angle is just petty.  Getting access to locker rooms and writing articles doesn't make anyone more qualified to judge how good a player is.

/The best aspect of this whole thing is the email address for the Baseball Writers Association of America is bbwaa[nospam-﹫-backwards]l­oa*com.
//Of course they still have an AOL account.
 
2014-01-09 01:32:18 PM

Obscure Login: Deadspin collected all the whining and it is glorious...


Deadspin can fark off too.
 
2014-01-09 01:36:32 PM

Gunny Highway: mikaloyd: Lets let in all the racists and druggies and gamblers now. Everybody gets in! Hall of Fame and orange slices for everybody! Its the snowflakes turn to decide what is right and wrong.

fark off with this shiat.


Or what? You wont enjoy your orange slice fully?
 
2014-01-09 01:37:19 PM

Jmb5346: but who knows how Andro effected 1 player more or less than another.


So why is it inherently fair for some people to be born with more ability to produce power and unfair for those who might not have as much power to use drugs to get to that point?

INeedAName: Amphetamines and steroids have very impacts on sports and a player's ability to consistently perform at a high level long after their body wants to stop.


It would be much more fun to watch the mind-numbing bore of a season if even the players were sick of it and stopped trying!

Jmb5346: Fair means all inclusive on a level playing field.


Everyone had the opportunity to take drugs to improve their performance. That's pretty level.
 
2014-01-09 01:37:59 PM

Jmb5346: rugman11:  But "pure" baseball wouldn't have black players, free agency, or the Designated Hitter

...and it doesn't help anybody to try and just sweep it all under the rug.

Well, to me 'pure' doesn't mean the way it was originally played back in the mid-19th century. It means fair play. Fair means all inclusive on a level playing field. So non-integrated athletics is certainly not pure.

I also don't think anyone is sweeping it under the rug at this point. The almanacs will have all of Barry Bonds' statistics. They will  never go away. But holding him, and others out, can send a message to current and potential PED users.


By doing that, the message is "Holy shiat, this stuff makes you into a superhuman athlete capable of such feats that we should wipe out your statistics. You'll make millions and you might not even get caught!"

The legitimacy argument is complete bullshiat. PEDs do not damage the sanctity or integrity of baseball. But they are a very real medical risk to the people who take them. THAT is the problem, not people hitting too many dingers.
 
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