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(Arizona Sports)   You can have the game winning hit in the bottom of the ninth in the seventh game of one of the most memorable World Series ever and still only get .9% of the votes needed to go into the Hall of Fame   (arizonasports.com) divider line 163
    More: Sad, Luis Gonzalez, World Series, Diamondbacks, Tom Glavine, Greg Maddux, Silver Slugger, Baseball Writers Association of America, Major League Baseball  
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2780 clicks; posted to Sports » on 09 Jan 2014 at 9:08 AM (36 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-09 05:24:58 PM

machoprogrammer: bhcompy: zarberg: puffy999: I mean using the Clemens/Bonds reasoning, I guess. But steroids do help you hit the ball, as well as extend careers by, sometimes, five years or more.

That argument is one that actually works in one of the suspected juicer's favors ... if Piazza was juicing, why did he suffer the same early-to-mid-30's breakdown that most players suffer? He was a regular on the DL for the last half of his career, shouldn't steroids have helped that?

Piazza is pretty low on the list of suspected juicers, though.  He's as likely a juicer as Griffey

I disagree. Piazza had terrible bacne, "test bloat" face and went from being drafted as a gift to his grandpa to being all time greatest hitting catcher ever. It isn't that hard to get drafted in the MLB draft, so he had to be not very good when he was drafted.


As an Italian, I can tell you terrible bacne continues into adulthood and beyond regardless of steroid use
 
2014-01-09 06:43:35 PM
Is subby also crying about Gene Tenace not being in the Hall of Fame?
 
2014-01-09 07:38:41 PM
Kirk Gibson would like to have a word with you subby.
 
2014-01-09 08:10:45 PM

The Banana Thug: What?  McGwire was an All-Star 8 or 9 times (not to mention Rooke of the Year) before he started to juice.  He helped the A's to 3 World Series appearances in 3 years.  Are you sure about that?

Not saying he deserves to be HoF now, but he had a pretty good chance before he went boneheaded with juicing.


You wrote this entire statement with the mindset that he didn't start juicing until halfway through the 1997 season or something.

He admitted to using steroids starting as early as 89/90 and it wouldn't shock me if you just go ahead and assume his entire career as being aided by steroids.
 
2014-01-09 09:16:43 PM

bhcompy: zarberg: puffy999: I mean using the Clemens/Bonds reasoning, I guess. But steroids do help you hit the ball, as well as extend careers by, sometimes, five years or more.

That argument is one that actually works in one of the suspected juicer's favors ... if Piazza was juicing, why did he suffer the same early-to-mid-30's breakdown that most players suffer? He was a regular on the DL for the last half of his career, shouldn't steroids have helped that?

Piazza is pretty low on the list of suspected juicers, though.  He's as likely a juicer as Griffey


Not even close, piazza most likely used a little but I'm not sure he was bonds/McGwire/Sosa level of juicing.

But Griffey didn't use at all, he was the same composition most of his career and steroids are used for injury recovery like bonds/Clemens used them for.
 
2014-01-09 09:18:32 PM

bulldg4life: The Banana Thug: What?  McGwire was an All-Star 8 or 9 times (not to mention Rooke of the Year) before he started to juice.  He helped the A's to 3 World Series appearances in 3 years.  Are you sure about that?

Not saying he deserves to be HoF now, but he had a pretty good chance before he went boneheaded with juicing.

You wrote this entire statement with the mindset that he didn't start juicing until halfway through the 1997 season or something.

He admitted to using steroids starting as early as 89/90 and it wouldn't shock me if you just go ahead and assume his entire career as being aided by steroids.


Yeah him and canseco were using in the early 90s at the latest.
 
2014-01-09 09:35:31 PM

steamingpile: But Griffey didn't use at all, he was the same composition most of his career and steroids are used for injury recovery like bonds/Clemens used them for.


Yeah, and Griffey was never injured so that settles that.
 
2014-01-09 11:25:09 PM

FuManchu7: Luis Gonzales?  No.

If you are a Diamondback fan, don't worry.  I think Randy Johnson is up next year and will probably be a first ballot HOF'er.


He's stated if he's voted in he would go in as a Mariner.  So, yeah...
 
2014-01-10 12:17:52 AM

H31N0US: Donnchadha: Being clutch in one at-bat does not a Hall of Famer make

Yep. And if that changes, I nominate Aaron Boone for the HoF. At least he hit it out, not a dinker over the head of an infielder who was playing too tight.


And I guess that puts David Freese in too
 
2014-01-10 01:39:23 AM
If Frank Thomas is a Hall of Famer (which he is, and deserves to be) then Jeff Bagwell is a Hall of Famer, too, and then some.  And this doesn't have anything to do with the two of them being born on the same day and winning an MVP in the same year.

Big Hurt:  301/521/1704 in 2322 games, 974 OPS, 156 OPS+

Bagpipes: 297/449/1529 in 2150 games, 948 OPS, 149 OPS+, and was also forced to wear a fielder's glove (and occasionally knew which hand to place it on)

Frank Thomas and Jeff Bagwell are the exact same player, with the only exception being that Thomas had a few extra end-of-career years that were denied to Bagwell because of Bag's arthritis.


Craig Biggio will make it (74.8% this year) and deserves to.  But the fact that Bagwell *lost* voting percentage this year (59.6% in 2013 vs. 54.3% this year) is a complete joke.

/yes, I am an Astros fan
 
2014-01-10 01:44:11 AM

JusticeandIndependence: Can we talk about HOF process on the whole or just about Luis Gonzalez?

Luis was a good player but not HOF.

Glavine, Maddux, and Thomas should be in.  BUT I think the writers should either let everyone in from the steroid era or none.

Based on stats.
Bonds should be in
Sosa should be in
Clemens should be in
McGwire should be in
Piazza should be in
Palmeiro should be in
Biggio and Bagwell are debateable

Stupid writers thinking they are doing something honorable now when they promoted these guys while they were playing.


I think what's happened is, the stronger your connection, the more it costs you. I think there are generally three tiers:

*Guys with whisper campaigns but little more (Piazza, Bagwell) get damaged to the point where they'll have to wait a bit, but they should still get in before all that long.
*Guys with strong connections but no actual failed test (Bonds, Clemens, McGwire) get heavily damaged and will likely be waiting into old age, but the door might- MIGHT- not be completely shut.
*Guys with an actual failed test (Palmeiro, Manny Ramirez in a couple years)? Forget it. You want in the Hall, buy a ticket.
 
2014-01-10 01:48:12 AM

Fade2black: FuManchu7: Luis Gonzales?  No.

If you are a Diamondback fan, don't worry.  I think Randy Johnson is up next year and will probably be a first ballot HOF'er.

He's stated if he's voted in he would go in as a Mariner.  So, yeah...


I believe it's still the case that players don't get to choose which team they are affiliated with on their HOF plaque.  So, while Johnson might very well be depicted as a Mariner, there's also a non-zero chance that his plaque will show him with the hat of the team for which he won a World Series.
 
2014-01-10 08:43:31 AM

JSam21: And I guess that puts David Freese in too


Nelson Cruz should be the one to induct Freese.
 
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