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(Arizona Sports)   You can have the game winning hit in the bottom of the ninth in the seventh game of one of the most memorable World Series ever and still only get .9% of the votes needed to go into the Hall of Fame   (arizonasports.com) divider line 163
    More: Sad, Luis Gonzalez, World Series, Diamondbacks, Tom Glavine, Greg Maddux, Silver Slugger, Baseball Writers Association of America, Major League Baseball  
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2782 clicks; posted to Sports » on 09 Jan 2014 at 9:08 AM (38 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



163 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

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2014-01-09 06:57:30 AM
I've been a D-backs fan since it was announced we got a team (previously the Cubs but that's because I grew up 1 mile from Hohokam Stadium), but seriously, Gonzo isn't a HoFer.
 
2014-01-09 07:26:05 AM
Because if he hadn't been juiced to the eyeballs that year, Rivera sends him and a couple of busted-ass bats back to the dugout.

Luis Gonzalez is Brady Anderson on a team with a better pitching staff.
 
2014-01-09 09:13:42 AM
His best year he was the fourth best player (by WAR) and the three ahead of him aren't in either
 
2014-01-09 09:22:59 AM
Being clutch in one at-bat does not a Hall of Famer make
 
2014-01-09 09:23:01 AM
Um, it's because he was juiced, and everyone knows it.
 
2014-01-09 09:24:19 AM

Donnchadha: Being clutch in one at-bat does not a Hall of Famer make


Yep. And if that changes, I nominate Aaron Boone for the HoF. At least he hit it out, not a dinker over the head of an infielder who was playing too tight.
 
2014-01-09 09:26:36 AM
It doesn't help if the best years of your career were spent in Arizona
 
2014-01-09 09:27:10 AM
Andruw jones hit 2 homers in his first 2 World Series at bats. Let's put him in with Maddox and Glavine
 
2014-01-09 09:27:42 AM
As a general rule, if I, as a casual fan, have no idea who you are, you don't belong in the hall of fame
 
2014-01-09 09:29:04 AM
Yea, I don't remember that hit.  Besides, wasn't Juan Gonzales on the juice?
 
2014-01-09 09:30:22 AM
Can we talk about HOF process on the whole or just about Luis Gonzalez?

Luis was a good player but not HOF.

Glavine, Maddux, and Thomas should be in.  BUT I think the writers should either let everyone in from the steroid era or none.

Based on stats.
Bonds should be in
Sosa should be in
Clemens should be in
McGwire should be in
Piazza should be in
Palmeiro should be in
Biggio and Bagwell are debateable

Stupid writers thinking they are doing something honorable now when they promoted these guys while they were playing.
 
2014-01-09 09:32:48 AM
He and Don Larsen should have a beer together. Maybe invite Joe Carter along.
 
2014-01-09 09:33:17 AM

H31N0US: Um, it's because he was juiced, and everyone knows it.


So?

Should we then take away all his hits from opposing pitchers and give them an out?  Then take those pitchers and readdress their stats so they could be in the hall of fame too?

He did what he did and baseball owners watched their profits soar.
 
2014-01-09 09:34:51 AM
People voted for:

Jacque Jones
Kenny Rogers
Armando Benitez
J.T. Snow
Hideo Nomo

Hell, Moises freaking Alou got SIX VOTES!!!

But about 15 people did not vote for Greg Maddux.

And people are upset at LeBatard for letting Deadspin readers vote (I admit, I'm still a reader and I voted, the two lowest vote-getters I voted for were Lee Smith and Edgar Martinez)???

/I invoked Moises Alou, where's our relevant Farker?
 
2014-01-09 09:35:07 AM

JusticeandIndependence: Can we talk about HOF process on the whole or just about Luis Gonzalez?

Luis was a good player but not HOF.

Glavine, Maddux, and Thomas should be in.  BUT I think the writers should either let everyone in from the steroid era or none.

Based on stats.
Bonds should be in
Sosa should be in
Clemens should be in
McGwire should be in
Piazza should be in
Palmeiro should be in
Biggio and Bagwell are debateable

Stupid writers thinking they are doing something honorable now when they promoted these guys while they were playing.


I'm sorry, but never in any discussion concerning Biggio and the HOF should the word "debatable" be used.  He is a first ballot in every since of the word. His numbers are off the charts and they were sustained. If he had played in NY or LA he would have gone in with 97% vote.  But then let's not get started on how someone can't get 100%.
 
2014-01-09 09:36:01 AM

JusticeandIndependence: So?


Don;t act like it isnt an issue for some people.
 
2014-01-09 09:36:37 AM
Luis Gonzales?  No.

If you are a Diamondback fan, don't worry.  I think Randy Johnson is up next year and will probably be a first ballot HOF'er.
 
2014-01-09 09:36:43 AM
Curt Schilling, who also played a significant role in that World Series and who had a much more impressive career, got only 29.2%, down from the 38.8% he got last year. Gonzo was a good player and by all accounts a great guy, but there's no way he's getting into the HoF if Schilling isn't.
 
2014-01-09 09:37:36 AM
Joe Carter got less than 4% in his year on the ballot and he hit one of the most dramatic home runs in World Series history. He also didn't have a suspiciously huge one-year boost in home run production.

And the headline is slightly off. Gonzo didn't get .9% of the votes needed, he got .9% of the votes, so it was more like 1.2% of the 75% needed. TFA is a little misleading too. They called it his first attempt, but you need 5% just to stay on the ballot, so it was really his only shot. I wouldn't count on the Veterans Committee.
 
2014-01-09 09:38:16 AM
I used to trade for Luis in World Series baseball on Sega Saturn because he had the largest hitting circle in the game and he could hit with power no matter where the ball was pitched.

That's my CSB about Luis.
 
2014-01-09 09:39:48 AM

R.E.D DAD: JusticeandIndependence: Can we talk about HOF process on the whole or just about Luis Gonzalez?

Luis was a good player but not HOF.

Glavine, Maddux, and Thomas should be in.  BUT I think the writers should either let everyone in from the steroid era or none.

Based on stats.
Bonds should be in
Sosa should be in
Clemens should be in
McGwire should be in
Piazza should be in
Palmeiro should be in
Biggio and Bagwell are debateable

Stupid writers thinking they are doing something honorable now when they promoted these guys while they were playing.

I'm sorry, but never in any discussion concerning Biggio and the HOF should the word "debatable" be used.  He is a first ballot in every since of the word. His numbers are off the charts and they were sustained. If he had played in NY or LA he would have gone in with 97% vote.  But then let's not get started on how someone can't get 100%.


Or a sense of the word even.
 
2014-01-09 09:42:53 AM
Worked for Bill Mazeroski.
 
2014-01-09 09:44:33 AM

R.E.D DAD: JusticeandIndependence: Can we talk about HOF process on the whole or just about Luis Gonzalez?

Luis was a good player but not HOF.

Glavine, Maddux, and Thomas should be in.  BUT I think the writers should either let everyone in from the steroid era or none.

Based on stats.
Bonds should be in
Sosa should be in
Clemens should be in
McGwire should be in
Piazza should be in
Palmeiro should be in
Biggio and Bagwell are debateable

Stupid writers thinking they are doing something honorable now when they promoted these guys while they were playing.

I'm sorry, but never in any discussion concerning Biggio and the HOF should the word "debatable" be used.  He is a first ballot in every since of the word. His numbers are off the charts and they were sustained. If he had played in NY or LA he would have gone in with 97% vote.  But then let's not get started on how someone can't get 100%.


I'd debate it.  He was a great player and did it for a long time on one team.  but off the charts?

His best season was .325 with 20 HR and 88 RBI's  50 SB is an eye catcher and a great season.  His career 414 puts him 66th all time stolen bases.

He is a great player no doubt, but not a shoe in, first ballot.
 
2014-01-09 09:46:48 AM
Up until, what, 15 years ago, the most important stats in baseball were home runs and batting average, with rbi and hits sprinkled in.
Roger Maris held the single season home run record from 1961 until 1998 and isn't in; and he doesn't deserve to be either.  Not putting these guys in the hall is a good thing.
On the other side and for other reasons, setting a match to the Hall might be a good thing, too.
 
2014-01-09 09:49:10 AM
I like how the BBWAA now gets to pretend that they weren't complicit with the steroid era.

http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/wilbur/2011/01/you_know_what _a .html
 
2014-01-09 09:49:39 AM

Gunny Highway: JusticeandIndependence: So?

Don;t act like it isnt an issue for some people.


It is.  I know that.  But it's stupid to cherry pick who they think did juice and who didn't and then vote for HOF.  My take is that they knew players were juicing at that time and rode the wave of fun that home runs and record smashing that went with it.  Now they are being very hypocritical about it.
 
2014-01-09 09:52:25 AM

R.E.D DAD: I'm sorry, but never in any discussion concerning Biggio and the HOF should the word "debatable" be used.  He is a first ballot in every since of the word. His numbers are off the charts and they were sustained.


Uh huh. Which resulted in his team winning...?


Yep, sorry, these things matter.
 
2014-01-09 09:53:02 AM
Koji Uehara just threw a GAME WINNING STRIKEOUT to WIN THE WORLD SERIES.

I assume Subby thinks he's a Hall of Famer as well?
 
2014-01-09 09:55:49 AM

JusticeandIndependence: R.E.D DAD: JusticeandIndependence: Can we talk about HOF process on the whole or just about Luis Gonzalez?

Luis was a good player but not HOF.

Glavine, Maddux, and Thomas should be in.  BUT I think the writers should either let everyone in from the steroid era or none.

Based on stats.
Bonds should be in
Sosa should be in
Clemens should be in
McGwire should be in
Piazza should be in
Palmeiro should be in
Biggio and Bagwell are debateable

Stupid writers thinking they are doing something honorable now when they promoted these guys while they were playing.

I'm sorry, but never in any discussion concerning Biggio and the HOF should the word "debatable" be used.  He is a first ballot in every since of the word. His numbers are off the charts and they were sustained. If he had played in NY or LA he would have gone in with 97% vote.  But then let's not get started on how someone can't get 100%.

I'd debate it.  He was a great player and did it for a long time on one team.  but off the charts?

His best season was .325 with 20 HR and 88 RBI's  50 SB is an eye catcher and a great season.  His career 414 puts him 66th all time stolen bases.

He is a great player no doubt, but not a shoe in, first ballot.


I agree with you. The Hall of Fame to me has always meant either players that transformed the way the game is played or dominant players in the era they played in. Biggio was more of a numbers compiler (like Palmeiro) because he was able to play so long. He had a nice prime in the mid to late 90s and was very good for a long time. I just question the overall greatness factor. Additionally, was he that much better than Jeff Kent who only got 15% of the vote this year?
 
2014-01-09 09:57:15 AM

EyeballKid: R.E.D DAD: I'm sorry, but never in any discussion concerning Biggio and the HOF should the word "debatable" be used.  He is a first ballot in every since of the word. His numbers are off the charts and they were sustained.

Uh huh. Which resulted in his team winning...?


Yep, sorry, these things matter.


Ted Williams says hi
 
2014-01-09 09:59:27 AM
Biggio should be in.  3000 hits, in 1997 he never hit into a double play in 700+ ABs.   One base shy of Roger Hornsby total bases by a Second basemen. Also was #5 in doubles among ALL players.  Second highest in # of seasons with 20+ HRS.  Hit more HR's than Will Clark or Steve Garvey.

Bonds and Clemens won't get in as they were despised by the Media for they way they treated them

A-Rod and Piazza will get in because A-Rod is a loveable goof, and Piazza is a panty creamer.

McGwire shouldn't get in as he has Reggie Jackson syndrome (His monster years were too few)


IMHO, all the Steroid accused players should be in the HoF if their stats are up to snuff.  Why?  Because the owners encouraged it.  It bought baseball back from the dead after the strike-shorted season.  People were filling the stands and watching TV every night to see if McGuire & Sosa would beat Maris' HR record.  The Yankees knew A-Rod, Clemens and Giambi were Steroid monsters and signed them for just that reason.

Also, if you exclude the Roiders' from the HOF for cheating, do you also exclude
George Brett for cheating?  Gaylord Perry?  Ty Cobb?
 
2014-01-09 10:00:08 AM

Slow To Return: Yea, I don't remember that hit.  Besides, wasn't Juan Gonzales on the juice?


bbbut it was teh most memorable world series ever!!1
 
2014-01-09 10:01:08 AM
I walked with the bases loaded to win a junior varsity game my sophomore year in HS. Where's my HOF plaque?

/got the win in relief, too.
 
2014-01-09 10:01:30 AM

JusticeandIndependence: Can we talk about HOF process on the whole or just about Luis Gonzalez?

Luis was a good player but not HOF.

Glavine, Maddux, and Thomas should be in.  BUT I think the writers should either let everyone in from the steroid era or none.

Based on stats.
Bonds should be in
Sosa should be in
Clemens should be in
McGwire should be in
Piazza should be in
Palmeiro should be in
Biggio and Bagwell are debateable


Biggio and Bagwell "debatable"?  I can't trust any of your judgments if you think these two are "debatable".  Biggio (and Kent) were *easily* the best 2Bs of the past twenty years out of anyone not named Ryne Sandberg or Roberto Alomar.  And Bagwell?  The dude hit 400 homers and stole 200 bases  as a 1B.


/That being said, Luis is NOT a HoFer.
//He barely deserves consideration for the Hall of Very Good
 
2014-01-09 10:02:20 AM

JusticeandIndependence: Gunny Highway: JusticeandIndependence: So?

Don;t act like it isnt an issue for some people.

It is.  I know that.  But it's stupid to cherry pick who they think did juice and who didn't and then vote for HOF.  My take is that they knew players were juicing at that time and rode the wave of fun that home runs and record smashing that went with it.  Now they are being very hypocritical about it.


Rather than relying just on our personal takes and memories of what pre-internet sportswriting was like, here's a pretty detailed account of what the writers knew and when (and what they did about it)

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/10261642/mlb-hall-fame-voting-st er oid-era

It's a little weird to to me to hear people yell at the writers for trying to be the morality police now because they failed as the morality police 20 years ago. Whether the writers condoned it or ignored it doesn't change what the PED users did and make it better OR worse. The players should be judged on their actions (it's up to you whether or not you think PEDs should DQ them), the players shouldn't be judged on the actions of the sportswriters.
 
2014-01-09 10:03:51 AM

JusticeandIndependence: R.E.D DAD: JusticeandIndependence: Can we talk about HOF process on the whole or just about Luis Gonzalez?

Luis was a good player but not HOF.

Glavine, Maddux, and Thomas should be in.  BUT I think the writers should either let everyone in from the steroid era or none.

Based on stats.
Bonds should be in
Sosa should be in
Clemens should be in
McGwire should be in
Piazza should be in
Palmeiro should be in
Biggio and Bagwell are debateable

Stupid writers thinking they are doing something honorable now when they promoted these guys while they were playing.

I'm sorry, but never in any discussion concerning Biggio and the HOF should the word "debatable" be used.  He is a first ballot in every since of the word. His numbers are off the charts and they were sustained. If he had played in NY or LA he would have gone in with 97% vote.  But then let's not get started on how someone can't get 100%.

I'd debate it.  He was a great player and did it for a long time on one team.  but off the charts?

His best season was .325 with 20 HR and 88 RBI's  50 SB is an eye catcher and a great season.  His career 414 puts him 66th all time stolen bases.

He is a great player no doubt, but not a shoe in, first ballot.


His 3,060 hits should put him in immediately.  There are only 2 others that have more than 3000 and aren't in....Rose and Palmeiro.  And there are only 28 members of the 3000 hit club.  He scored 1800+ runs and had a career OBP of .363.  Hell, the guy even went an entire season without hitting into a double play.
 
2014-01-09 10:04:58 AM

R.E.D DAD: Hell, the guy even went an entire season without hitting into a double play.


That would have required somebody else on the Astros to get on base, wouldn't it?
 
2014-01-09 10:07:31 AM

R.E.D DAD: JusticeandIndependence: R.E.D DAD: JusticeandIndependence: Can we talk about HOF process on the whole or just about Luis Gonzalez?

Luis was a good player but not HOF.

Glavine, Maddux, and Thomas should be in.  BUT I think the writers should either let everyone in from the steroid era or none.

Based on stats.
Bonds should be in
Sosa should be in
Clemens should be in
McGwire should be in
Piazza should be in
Palmeiro should be in
Biggio and Bagwell are debateable

Stupid writers thinking they are doing something honorable now when they promoted these guys while they were playing.

I'm sorry, but never in any discussion concerning Biggio and the HOF should the word "debatable" be used.  He is a first ballot in every since of the word. His numbers are off the charts and they were sustained. If he had played in NY or LA he would have gone in with 97% vote.  But then let's not get started on how someone can't get 100%.

I'd debate it.  He was a great player and did it for a long time on one team.  but off the charts?

His best season was .325 with 20 HR and 88 RBI's  50 SB is an eye catcher and a great season.  His career 414 puts him 66th all time stolen bases.

He is a great player no doubt, but not a shoe in, first ballot.

His 3,060 hits should put him in immediately.  There are only 2 others that have more than 3000 and aren't in....Rose and Palmeiro.  And there are only 28 members of the 3000 hit club.  He scored 1800+ runs and had a career OBP of .363.  Hell, the guy even went an entire season without hitting into a double play.


I'll concede.  He's in.
 
2014-01-09 10:09:56 AM

PabloHosehead: //He barely deserves consideration for the Hall of Very Good


I propose the Wing of Things That Happened Once.
 
2014-01-09 10:10:06 AM

EyeballKid: R.E.D DAD: I'm sorry, but never in any discussion concerning Biggio and the HOF should the word "debatable" be used.  He is a first ballot in every since of the word. His numbers are off the charts and they were sustained.

Uh huh. Which resulted in his team winning...?


Yep, sorry, these things matter.


Nope, it's called a TEAM sport for a reason.
 
2014-01-09 10:10:17 AM

coolio mack: I agree with you. The Hall of Fame to me has always meant either players that transformed the way the game is played or dominant players in the era they played in. Biggio was more of a numbers compiler (like Palmeiro) because he was able to play so long. He had a nice prime in the mid to late 90s and was very good for a long time. I just question the overall greatness factor. Additionally, was he that much better than Jeff Kent who only got 15% of the vote this year?


Baseball fans are evolving too, We are entering an era where half the fans at the ballpark got participation trophies just for playing ball in school. Each passing year more of these guys will be writers and the bar to get into the hall will become lower and lower.
 
2014-01-09 10:10:20 AM

JusticeandIndependence: Can we talk about HOF process on the whole or just about Luis Gonzalez?

Luis was a good player but not HOF.

Glavine, Maddux, and Thomas should be in.  BUT I think the writers should either let everyone in from the steroid era or none.

Based on stats.
Bonds should be in
Sosa should be in
Clemens should be in
McGwire should be in
Piazza should be in
Palmeiro should be in
Biggio and Bagwell are debateable

Stupid writers thinking they are doing something honorable now when they promoted these guys while they were playing.


Pre-roids, McGuire and Sosa were average players. They don't belong. Conversely, Clemens and Bonds were HOF material before juicing and should be considered. I don't mind them having to sweat a bit, though. And let's be honest, media decides who goes in the HOF and Bonds was never the nicest guy towards the writers.

Palmeiro should be in. Roids don't help you hit the ball.

I don't think Piazza has really been tied to PEDs. He might be suspected of juicing, but I've never heard him tied directly to anything.

Biggio should be in and he will be. To come so close this year and not make would be a crime.

Bagwell... was he ever really the best player at his position during his career? I have my doubts. I have a hard time putting him in, but I wouldn't lose it if he did get in.
 
2014-01-09 10:12:25 AM

Tiberius Gracchus: JusticeandIndependence: Gunny Highway: JusticeandIndependence: So?

Don;t act like it isnt an issue for some people.

It is.  I know that.  But it's stupid to cherry pick who they think did juice and who didn't and then vote for HOF.  My take is that they knew players were juicing at that time and rode the wave of fun that home runs and record smashing that went with it.  Now they are being very hypocritical about it.

Rather than relying just on our personal takes and memories of what pre-internet sportswriting was like, here's a pretty detailed account of what the writers knew and when (and what they did about it)

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/10261642/mlb-hall-fame-voting-st er oid-era

It's a little weird to to me to hear people yell at the writers for trying to be the morality police now because they failed as the morality police 20 years ago. Whether the writers condoned it or ignored it doesn't change what the PED users did and make it better OR worse. The players should be judged on their actions (it's up to you whether or not you think PEDs should DQ them), the players shouldn't be judged on the actions of the sportswriters.


Except that the HOF is only voted on by the Sportswriters.  I read that story before.  How about I say many of them knew and wrote how excited that Sosa and McGuire were chasing the record anyway?  Is that better?
 
2014-01-09 10:14:14 AM

Donnchadha: Being clutch in one at-bat does not a Hall of Famer make


derpy: Slow To Return: Yea, I don't remember that hit.  Besides, wasn't Juan Gonzales on the juice?

bbbut it was teh most memorable world series ever!!1


suicide: PabloHosehead: //He barely deserves consideration for the Hall of Very Good

I propose the Wing of Things That Happened Once.


i830.photobucket.com

Ahem.

/that's Freese
//game 6
///was there
 
2014-01-09 10:14:44 AM

desertgeek: Pre-roids, McGuire and Sosa were average players. They don't belong.


desertgeek: Palmeiro should be in. Roids don't help you hit the ball.


hmmmmmmm.........
 
2014-01-09 10:14:46 AM
He was on as many roids as Bonds, that is why.

In before certain Farkers claim there is no way to know he was on roids even though he gained about 30 lb of muscle in an offseason.
 
2014-01-09 10:15:27 AM

EyeballKid: R.E.D DAD: Hell, the guy even went an entire season without hitting into a double play.

That would have required somebody else on the Astros to get on base, wouldn't it?


Well played sir.
 
2014-01-09 10:16:03 AM

JusticeandIndependence: Can we talk about HOF process on the whole or just about Luis Gonzalez?

Luis was a good player but not HOF.

Glavine, Maddux, and Thomas should be in.  BUT I think the writers should either let everyone in from the steroid era or none.

Based on stats.
Bonds should be in
Sosa should be in
Clemens should be in
McGwire should be in
Piazza should be in
Palmeiro should be in
Biggio and Bagwell are debateable

Stupid writers thinking they are doing something honorable now when they promoted these guys while they were playing.


why everyone or none? Why should Maddux and Glavine get dragged down with Bonds and Sosa and McGwire and the rest of those guys?
 
2014-01-09 10:20:55 AM

R.E.D DAD: His 3,060 hits should put him in immediately. There are only 2 others that have more than 3000 and aren't in....Rose and Palmeiro. And there are only 28 members of the 3000 hit club. He scored 1800+ runs and had a career OBP of .363. Hell, the guy even went an entire season without hitting into a double play.


And he was a damned good catcher before he went out to 2B.
 
2014-01-09 10:21:04 AM

Moosecakes: why everyone or none? Why should Maddux and Glavine get dragged down with Bonds and Sosa and McGwire and the rest of those guys?


No one should be dragged down.
 
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