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(Mother Jones)   You think that expensive organic chicken that you buy is a lot safer than regular chicken? Think again   (motherjones.com) divider line 99
    More: Interesting, superbugs, environmental health officer, Consumers Union  
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8796 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Jan 2014 at 11:35 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



99 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-01-08 07:53:52 PM  
You think that expensive organic chicken that you buy is a lot safer than regular chicken?

No.

Wash your hands, clean your cutting boards and cook your goddamn food properly.
 
2014-01-08 07:58:30 PM  
After having worked with people who were responsible for drawing up regulations for "Organic Food" in Canada (which were eventually not approved), they won't touch anything labelled "Organic" in Canada without doing some pretty in-depth research. So no, I don't think that organic chicken is any safer than the farm factory mutant chickyn* that I get at the grocery store.

* I know they don't technically have 6 legs and 6 wings and live short lives of utter misery, but even if they did I wouldn't give a damn as long as they tasted delicious.
 
2014-01-08 08:00:53 PM  
You think that expensive organic chicken that you buy is a lot safer than regular chicken?

No, but I like to pretend it was raised more humanely.
 
2014-01-08 08:13:55 PM  
No, but I do think that it tastes like an actual chicken instead of tofu.
 
2014-01-08 08:55:33 PM  
You think this is the real Quaid?

It is.
 
2014-01-08 09:24:40 PM  
There's not much difference between an organically raise chicken and a traditionally raised chicken when it comes to farking.
 
2014-01-08 09:30:04 PM  

bronyaur1: No, but I do think that it tastes like an actual chicken instead of tofu.


Pretty much this. I'd actually expect it to be more dangerous because, in addition to the super-bacteria, it would also have the regular bacteria antibiotics are supposed to suppress.
 
2014-01-08 09:50:40 PM  

shanrick: There's not much difference between an organically raise chicken and a traditionally raised chicken when it comes to farking.


Keep on farking that chicken is what I say.
 
2014-01-08 09:55:00 PM  
Regular and organic chicken are on equal branches of the same poul tree.

- Anonymous
 
2014-01-08 10:44:46 PM  

bronyaur1: No, but I do think that it tastes like an actual chicken instead of tofu.


This. Plus I get mine from a local butcher, not a Supermarket
 
2014-01-08 11:09:26 PM  
i2.wp.com
 
2014-01-08 11:38:41 PM  
They say that human flesh tastes like chicken. Which means that chicken tastes like human flesh.

Food for thought. Or not. Seriously, don't think about it.
 
2014-01-08 11:40:44 PM  
oblig

i.imgur.com
 
2014-01-08 11:45:07 PM  

shanrick: There's not much difference between an organically raise chicken and a traditionally raised chicken when it comes to farking.


so....
 
2014-01-08 11:45:18 PM  

styckx: oblig


Thank you.
 
2014-01-08 11:47:09 PM  
Are the organic chickens fed cow or chicken meat? Because I know that's where I get my antibiotics.
 
2014-01-08 11:47:37 PM  

Mitch Taylor's Bro: bronyaur1: No, but I do think that it tastes like an actual chicken instead of tofu.

Pretty much this. I'd actually expect it to be more dangerous because, in addition to the super-bacteria, it would also have the regular bacteria antibiotics are supposed to suppress.


Or we could just start vaccinating our goddamn chickens like the rest of the civilized world does... The US has nearly a million reported cases of salmonella poisoning every year. You know how many the UK had in 2010? <500. More people died from salmonella in the US than got sick in the UK.


Solid Muldoon: They say that human flesh tastes like chicken. Which means that chicken tastes like human flesh.

Food for thought. Or not. Seriously, don't think about it.


Pork, not chicken.
 
2014-01-08 11:51:01 PM  
If you eat under-cooked poultry, you deserve what you get.
 
2014-01-08 11:51:41 PM  
You think that expensive organic chicken that you buy is a lot safer than regular chicken?

Safer?  No.  Better tasting?  Hell yes.  Actually gets bigger and retains its juices while I cook it instead of shriveling into a dry puck?  Yes.  More Nutritious?  Not sure about chicken, but for many foods yes.

Also, as a hunter I appreciate knowing that my food may have lived a less tortured life.  I take a lot of pride in the fact that when I kill prey it lived a decent life up until the moment a predator quickly ended it, and I'd like to extend that to the rest of my eating habits.
 
2014-01-08 11:51:48 PM  
Unrelated, but it has fascinated me that the US and the Dominican Republic are the only places I've ever been where chicken eggs are refrigerated.
 
2014-01-08 11:53:25 PM  

plushpuppy: bronyaur1: No, but I do think that it tastes like an actual chicken instead of tofu.

This. Plus I get mine from a local butcher, not a Supermarket


Who gets his meat from the same food distributor as your supermarket.
 
2014-01-08 11:55:36 PM  
Well that's it I'm only buying inorganic chicken from now on!

Solid Muldoon: They say that human flesh tastes like chicken. Which means that chicken tastes like human flesh.

Food for thought. Or not. Seriously, don't think about it.


I've heard it tastes sweeter than chicken.

/If I ever crash in the mountains I'll get to find out. *drool*
//Fire roasted Steve!
 
2014-01-09 12:00:49 AM  

fusillade762: You think that expensive organic chicken that you buy is a lot safer than regular chicken?

No.

Wash your hands, clean your cutting boards and cook your goddamn food properly.


THIS

That is all, no matter WHAT kind of poultry you eat(and I eat organic)...
 
2014-01-09 12:05:12 AM  

dpzum1: fusillade762: You think that expensive organic chicken that you buy is a lot safer than regular chicken?

No.

Wash your hands, clean your cutting boards and cook your goddamn food properly.

THIS

That is all, no matter WHAT kind of poultry you eat(and I eat organic)...


One thing I can say that is different, though, is when we cook these organics to make broth or soup(or dog food). We used to put the slow cooker outside (live in AZ) because of the smell. Not a problem anymore. there is almost no "chicken" smell and we can cook them inside now.
 
2014-01-09 12:08:19 AM  
So wait I should by non organic chicken because it is safer? LMFAO---Something tells me the writer is a VEGAN and wants me to be VEGAN. I am not buying it because it is "safer" I am buying it because cage free means happier chickens which means TASTIER chickens.
 
2014-01-09 12:10:29 AM  
Vegan chicken IS best chicken.
 
2014-01-09 12:10:42 AM  

Cup_O_Jo: So wait I should by non organic chicken because it is safer? LMFAO---Something tells me the writer is a VEGAN and wants me to be VEGAN. I am not buying it because it is "safer" I am buying it because cage free means happier chickens which means TASTIER chickens.


Organic doesn't mean cage free.
 
2014-01-09 12:12:01 AM  

Boo_Guy: //Fire roasted Steve!


Just make sure he is locally sourced, cage free and organic. Otherwise he will taste like tofu
 
2014-01-09 12:15:43 AM  
This just confirms what I have always thought; there is only one significant difference between "organic" and regular versions of a particular food item...........cost.

Organic food is one of the greatest scams ever pulled on the American people.
 
2014-01-09 12:17:49 AM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Cup_O_Jo: So wait I should by non organic chicken because it is safer? LMFAO---Something tells me the writer is a VEGAN and wants me to be VEGAN. I am not buying it because it is "safer" I am buying it because cage free means happier chickens which means TASTIER chickens.

Organic doesn't mean cage free.


Because there are so many organic chickens that do not tout cage free.. Umkay. Sure Trolly Mctrollister.
 
2014-01-09 12:20:01 AM  

Ima4nic8or: This just confirms what I have always thought; there is only one significant difference between "organic" and regular versions of a particular food item...........cost.

Organic food is one of the greatest scams ever pulled on the American people.


It doesn't smell, doesn't turn into a "puck" when you cook it (wtf) and the chickens are happier when their heads are cut off... Come on man, haven't you read the thread?
 
2014-01-09 12:21:01 AM  

Cup_O_Jo: So wait I should by non organic chicken because it is safer? LMFAO---Something tells me the writer is a VEGAN and wants me to be VEGAN. I am not buying it because it is "safer" I am buying it because cage free means happier chickens which means TASTIER chickens.


I prefer free-range (or at least cage-free) but don't give a damn whether it's "organic."

/carbon-based chicken? plenty organic for me
 
2014-01-09 12:23:15 AM  
I don't buy it because it's safer. I buy it because it says "organic" on the label, and I can lord it over all you inferior beings who buy "ordinary" chicken.
 
2014-01-09 12:24:31 AM  

Boo_Guy: Well that's it I'm only buying inorganic chicken from now on!

Solid Muldoon: They say that human flesh tastes like chicken. Which means that chicken tastes like human flesh.

Food for thought. Or not. Seriously, don't think about it.

I've heard it tastes sweeter than chicken.

/If I ever crash in the mountains I'll get to find out. *drool*
//Fire roasted Steve!


Human tastes like pork.
 
2014-01-09 12:27:51 AM  
If it isn't chemically separated and shaped into little nuggets, I ain't eating no chicken.

/two things of sweet and sour, please
//scratch that, one sweet and sour, one barbecue
///on second thought, can I get a double cheeseburger?
 
2014-01-09 12:28:25 AM  
...safer...?

Don't know. Never been attack by chicken.
 
2014-01-09 12:33:04 AM  
If I ever crash in the mountains, I hope Mimi Rogers is there. Because, yum!
 
2014-01-09 12:33:32 AM  

dpzum1: fusillade762: You think that expensive organic chicken that you buy is a lot safer than regular chicken?

No.

Wash your hands, clean your cutting boards and cook your goddamn food properly.

THIS

That is all, no matter WHAT kind of poultry you eat(and I eat organic)...


Cutting boards is where most people fail big time. At a minimum use one side exclusively for meats and the other side exclusively for veggies. Always. And clean the hell out of them after every single use before anything has time to dry. Even better have 2 and save one just for meats and one just for fruits and veggies. Cross contamination is what gets people sick. If you like rare to medium rare beef (like one should) have a separate one just for beef just in case the pork or chicken left behind some cooties that you missed. You can buy them in different colors so there's no reason to mix them up and if you are choosy you can even get them sized to fit inside your sink lip so that they will sit right over the sink and the blood or whatever will drain right off into it keeping it off of your counter (another common source of cross contamination). Don't have room for them? Get a glass one that won't mar and catch the bacteria (but it will dull your knives faster so keep that in mind).

And for gods sake never use any of them for baking. Ever. Get a good wooden one for that and keep it as dry as you can.

Finally don't lean them against each other, especially if there's even a bit of damp on them.

\cutting boards are bacteria sponges.
 
2014-01-09 12:34:58 AM  
One thing I definitely buy organic is milk. That shiat lasts a long time.
 
2014-01-09 12:35:48 AM  

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: Boo_Guy: Well that's it I'm only buying inorganic chicken from now on!

Solid Muldoon: They say that human flesh tastes like chicken. Which means that chicken tastes like human flesh.

Food for thought. Or not. Seriously, don't think about it.

I've heard it tastes sweeter than chicken.

/If I ever crash in the mountains I'll get to find out. *drool*
//Fire roasted Steve!

Human tastes like pork.


So where can I order some?

The cragislist ads I reply to are always cops.

/finger licking good!
 
2014-01-09 12:36:43 AM  

Cup_O_Jo: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Cup_O_Jo: So wait I should by non organic chicken because it is safer? LMFAO---Something tells me the writer is a VEGAN and wants me to be VEGAN. I am not buying it because it is "safer" I am buying it because cage free means happier chickens which means TASTIER chickens.

Organic doesn't mean cage free.

Because there are so many organic chickens that do not tout cage free.. Umkay. Sure Trolly Mctrollister.


 It's the other way around; there are many cage-free chickens that don't qualify as "organic."
 
2014-01-09 12:38:53 AM  
Level up those feels and taste buds!  RAWR!   Live happy die happy.

/Vodak marinated
 
2014-01-09 12:40:20 AM  

fusillade762: You think that expensive organic chicken that you buy is a lot safer than regular chicken?

No.

Wash your hands, clean your cutting boards and cook your goddamn food properly.


This. I was never under the impression ANY chicken was "safe."
 
2014-01-09 12:46:18 AM  

TinyFist: Unrelated, but it has fascinated me that the US and the Dominican Republic are the only places I've ever been where chicken eggs are refrigerated.


I know in the UK, they vaccinate egg laying chickens against
salmonella.


Lots of autistic chickens I'd assume.
 
2014-01-09 12:56:07 AM  

Gyrfalcon: This. I was never under the impression ANY chicken was "safe."


It isn't. It can go bad in a couple of hours or less if it wasn't handled properly by people you don't know in places that you have no control over. It can go bad in your trunk as you drive home from the store. If you can catch even the slightest smell that I can only describe as "Tinny" don't eat it. Ever. Toss it or take it back. If you bite into it and you get even a slight (Tinny again) taste spit it out. It can "Look" good and still be bad. The date and label on the package means squat as far as I'm concerned. I've gotten bad chicken from reputable chain stores with reputable labels on them. Shiat happens in the supply chain and a good store will make it right, especially with chicken.
 
2014-01-09 12:56:11 AM  

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: Boo_Guy: Well that's it I'm only buying inorganic chicken from now on!

Solid Muldoon: They say that human flesh tastes like chicken. Which means that chicken tastes like human flesh.

Food for thought. Or not. Seriously, don't think about it.

I've heard it tastes sweeter than chicken.

/If I ever crash in the mountains I'll get to find out. *drool*
//Fire roasted Steve!

Human tastes like pork.


Yeah, but in the States, it'd probably be mostly fatback.

mitchieville.com
 
2014-01-09 01:01:56 AM  

lymond01: ...safer...?

Don't know. Never been attack by chicken.


It sucks.

They would eat us if they could,
 
2014-01-09 01:03:36 AM  

fusillade762: You think that expensive organic chicken that you buy is a lot safer than regular chicken?

No.

Wash your hands, clean your cutting boards and cook your goddamn food properly.


^^ yup

(and anyone that compares organic to manufactured based solely on food poisoning, that aint the point, but whatever - eat well)
 
2014-01-09 01:04:02 AM  

Radioactive Ass: Gyrfalcon: This. I was never under the impression ANY chicken was "safe."

It isn't. It can go bad in a couple of hours or less if it wasn't handled properly by people you don't know in places that you have no control over. It can go bad in your trunk as you drive home from the store. If you can catch even the slightest smell that I can only describe as "Tinny" don't eat it. Ever. Toss it or take it back. If you bite into it and you get even a slight (Tinny again) taste spit it out. It can "Look" good and still be bad. The date and label on the package means squat as far as I'm concerned. I've gotten bad chicken from reputable chain stores with reputable labels on them. Shiat happens in the supply chain and a good store will make it right, especially with chicken.


Excellent username/post combo
 
2014-01-09 01:05:13 AM  
There's a reason it's called long pig.
 
2014-01-09 01:15:20 AM  

fusillade762: You think that expensive organic chicken that you buy is a lot safer than regular chicken?

No.

Wash your hands, clean your cutting boards and cook your goddamn food properly.


If ever there was a thread that was over in one, this is it.
 
2014-01-09 01:17:39 AM  

Cyno01: Mitch Taylor's Bro: bronyaur1: No, but I do think that it tastes like an actual chicken instead of tofu.

Pretty much this. I'd actually expect it to be more dangerous because, in addition to the super-bacteria, it would also have the regular bacteria antibiotics are supposed to suppress.

Or we could just start vaccinating our goddamn chickens like the rest of the civilized world does... The US has nearly a million reported cases of salmonella poisoning every year. You know how many the UK had in 2010? <500. More people died from salmonella in the US than got sick in the UK.


I was going to write something snarky about autistic chickens, but was intrigued by the idea of vaccinating chickens for salmonella. Turns out you're right, and the FDA didn't feel like mandating it!

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/25/business/25vaccine.html?pagewanted =a ll&_r=0

Thanks for edu-ma-cating me :-)
 
2014-01-09 01:23:12 AM  

Ima4nic8or: This just confirms what I have always thought; there is only one significant difference between "organic" and regular versions of a particular food item...........cost.

Organic food is one of the greatest scams ever pulled on the American people.


If you are ever in the DC Metro area, please stop by, and we can do a blind taste test comparing standard store-bought eggs and the ones my free-roaming, organically fed flock lays. There's a reason my neighbors (who couldn't care less about Organic labelling) will wait for weeks for the privilege of paying us over $4/dozen: they're really superior to the mass-production product. It's just that simple.
 
2014-01-09 01:24:25 AM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Excellent username/post combo


I've experienced the regret of bad chicken exactly *once*. Never again. It never made it to my ass though. I was puking up that taste for two days as my system went into full reverse. I only had that ever happen once before with an unfortunate "Shamrock shake" incident back in the 80's. Never had one since and don't ever plan on it.

I eat chicken regularly (I'd call it half a chicken a week or so on average) and probably once every couple of years I get "tinny" smelling chicken. It goes back every time and they replace it with no problems or questions.
 
2014-01-09 01:29:09 AM  

Deucednuisance: If you are ever in the DC Metro area, please stop by, and we can do a blind taste test comparing standard store-bought eggs and the ones my free-roaming, organically fed flock lays. There's a reason my neighbors (who couldn't care less about Organic labelling) will wait for weeks for the privilege of paying us over $4/dozen: they're really superior to the mass-production product. It's just that simple.


Sure. But you have to deal with all of that chicken shiat and chicken in-fighting. My sister did that for a few years and while she loved the eggs she gave it up as too much of a hassle. They were some pretty good eggs though. Really bright yellow yolks.
 
2014-01-09 01:31:22 AM  
Subby's trolling.
Nobody buys organic because they think it's got less bacteria.
 
2014-01-09 01:51:45 AM  

Don't Troll Me Bro!: You think that expensive organic chicken that you buy is a lot safer than regular chicken?

Safer?  No.  Better tasting?  Hell yes.  Actually gets bigger and retains its juices while I cook it instead of shriveling into a dry puck?  Yes.  More Nutritious?  Not sure about chicken, but for many foods yes.

Also, as a hunter I appreciate knowing that my food may have lived a less tortured life.  I take a lot of pride in the fact that when I kill prey it lived a decent life up until the moment a predator quickly ended it, and I'd like to extend that to the rest of my eating habits.


Organic standards for poultry don't require much more than organic feed + no antibiotics.  The birds can still be de-beaked, housed in crowded facilities, and all the other conditions that battery chickens have to suffer.  Only free-range, humanely-raise, and pastured chickens have specific living conditions requirements.
 
2014-01-09 01:53:16 AM  
Growing up around Purdue poultry farms in MD, I actually read the article and the studies he linked to.  The author of that article is an idiot.

Facts based on the two studies (one conducted in the poultry houses comparing organic vs conventional; one based on chicken pulled from supermarket shelves identifying various bacteria).
1.  All the shiat in every poultry house contains Enterococcus, regardless of whether it's organic or conventional.

ehp.niehs.nih.gov
The authors themselves note that:
Poultry litter was the principal environmental media for the recovery of Enterococcus spp. from both farm types, with 100% of all litter samples testing positive;

2.
An analysis of the recovered/identified strains, when applied with antibiotics, showed more of the strains isolated from conventional farms tend to be more antibiotic resistant.
3. The supermarket study found that both organic and conventional chickens have the same rate of contamination of a major bacteria.
4. Of all the chicken tested in the supermarket study, around 50% of the bacteria was antibiotic resistant.
5. Antibiotics, when applied, kill non-resistant strains of Enterococcus and leave only resistant strains of Enterococcus behind.


Now that we have the facts from the studies, let's do some rationale thinking:
- Fact 2 in view of Fact 5 is a "no shiat, sherlock" moment.  Yes, of all the isolated strains of enterococcus, the conventional poultry houses have a higher rate of drug-resistant strains.  All the non-resistant strains are f'ing dead, dipshiat.

- Supermarket study did not at all conclude or assert "organic supermarket chicken has the same rate of drug-resistant bacteria as conventional supermarket chicken", which the author asserts.  The study found that 98% of all supermarket chicken has some form of dangerous bacteria, that both organic and conventional have the same contamination rate of any-bacteria (gasp, they're both almost 100%!!!. Who would have guessed that given the total contamination rate was almost 100%).

- "Of all the bacteria strains tested, 50% were drug resistant" does NOT imply "same rate of drug resistant bacteria in conventional chicken as organic chicken".  Since pretty much all chicken is contaminated, if 100% of the bacteria in conventional chicken was drug resistant, and 0% of organic chicken was found to be not drug resistant, you'd arrive at the conclusion that 50% of the bacteria was drug resistant.
 
2014-01-09 01:55:02 AM  

Cup_O_Jo: So wait I should by non organic chicken because it is safer? LMFAO---Something tells me the writer is a VEGAN and wants me to be VEGAN. I am not buying it because it is "safer" I am buying it because cage free means happier chickens which means TASTIER chickens.


Cage-free means crowded in a big barn, with a food trough in the middle, and flap doors to go outside, which the chickens rarely do, because they're just as gluttonous as humans.  The difference in taste is the placebo effect.
 
2014-01-09 01:59:33 AM  

Deucednuisance: Ima4nic8or: This just confirms what I have always thought; there is only one significant difference between "organic" and regular versions of a particular food item...........cost.

Organic food is one of the greatest scams ever pulled on the American people.

If you are ever in the DC Metro area, please stop by, and we can do a blind taste test comparing standard store-bought eggs and the ones my free-roaming, organically fed flock lays. There's a reason my neighbors (who couldn't care less about Organic labelling) will wait for weeks for the privilege of paying us over $4/dozen: they're really superior to the mass-production product. It's just that simple.


You're talking about pastured chicken, not just organic, so that's not a fair comparison.  Pastured chicken and eggs are worth paying for, if you can afford it ($7/lb for chicken, $6.00/doz. for eggs around here).
 
2014-01-09 02:05:07 AM  

acohn: Cage-free means crowded in a big barn, with a food trough in the middle, and flap doors to go outside, which the chickens rarely do, because they're just as gluttonous as humans. The difference in taste is the placebo effect.


I had a great-uncle who had a fairly large duck farm in San Joaquin Valley back in the 60's. Same thing. Big barn, open area outside, ducks hung out in the barn by choice. That old bastard thought that it would be funny to take a 5 year old city kid in there with a bucket of feed in hand to feed the "Duckies". Hilarity ensued (for the adults who were watching).

I have no reason to think that chickens are much different only with sharper beaks and not as much fat on them.
 
2014-01-09 02:37:16 AM  
I only eat inorganic food.
 
2014-01-09 03:07:39 AM  
I've presumed that the chicken in Vietnam tastes way more delicious than USA chicken because they are raised more humanely than the concentration camp factory chickens raised here.
 
2014-01-09 03:44:41 AM  
Wow.  This poor soul apparently dropped out of school before the fourth grade when they first explain how evolution and vaccines/drug resistance work.

That must have been a rough life.
 
2014-01-09 04:53:27 AM  
As someone suffering from the worst food poisoning of her life after eating a chicken sandwich today...I am not surprised.

/ still hugging the porcelain god.
 
2014-01-09 05:04:06 AM  

Calypsocookie: As someone suffering from the worst food poisoning of her life after eating a chicken sandwich today...I am not surprised.

/ still hugging the porcelain god.



It's the apocalypsocookie!
 
2014-01-09 06:13:13 AM  
Organic anything is an overpriced ripoff. But go ahead and continue to fool yourselves into thinking they're somehow better for you.

/idiots
 
2014-01-09 06:41:26 AM  
I go free range over organic. I once asked someone promoting organic food what the benefits to organic or the negative aspects of non-organic were so I could objectively decide and the most they could come up with was a paraphrasing of "Whooo! Chemicals!" like everything on the planet isn`t already made from chemicals...

I do buy organic tomato ketchup though, instead of 138g of tomato per 100g of sauce, they use 178g and it tastes better for that. If they used 178g of non-organic tomatoes that would be the one I would buy then.

THAT is the only reason to buy organic, they often just put more of the good stuff and less of the crap stuff in the recipe to fool the "Organic tastes better" crowd.

No, better recipes taste better...
 
2014-01-09 06:43:47 AM  
People will believe any damned thing to justify getting scammed.

/"but supermarket chicken turns into a puck when I cook it!"  No, donkey, you just don't know how to cook properly.
 
2014-01-09 06:46:33 AM  
i.dailymail.co.uk

I notice they bought their kid from the same shop as the beckhams. You can tell because their heads don`t attach properly and the hair is fitted too far forward.

Terrible decision. He will probably end up raping someone and then killing them in a car accident.
 
2014-01-09 06:47:14 AM  
opps totally wrong thread.
 
2014-01-09 06:47:29 AM  

nickerj1: Growing up around Purdue poultry farms in MD, I actually read the article and the studies he linked to. The author of that article is an idiot.


The article linked to multiple studies.  He seems to reference at least 4.  He even points out that the studies testing the farms, which is one of the graphs you linked, found less resistant bacteria.  He also points out that studies testing the meat in the supermarket (the consumer reports and FDA tests) found no significant difference in the rates of drug resistant bacteria, but they do not know why, though he suggests some possibilities such as slaughterhouse contamination.  It's good you read one of the linked studies, but it doesn't sound like you got past the intro of the actual article. The contradiction you are complaining about is the main point of most of the article.

So if resistant strains appear to develop much less frequently on organically managed chicken farms, why do they show up at the same alarming rates in organic chicken on the supermarket shelf? Urvashi Rangan, director of consumer safety and sustainability for Consumers Union, which publishes Consumer Reports, says no clear explanation has emerged. ...
 
2014-01-09 06:50:06 AM  
Ah, both threads start "You think that..." and I just looked at the tab...
 
2014-01-09 06:56:24 AM  

ErinPac: nickerj1: Growing up around Purdue poultry farms in MD, I actually read the article and the studies he linked to. The author of that article is an idiot.

The article linked to multiple studies.  He seems to reference at least 4.  He even points out that the studies testing the farms, which is one of the graphs you linked, found less resistant bacteria.  He also points out that studies testing the meat in the supermarket (the consumer reports and FDA tests) found no significant difference in the rates of drug resistant bacteria, but they do not know why, though he suggests some possibilities such as slaughterhouse contamination.  It's good you read one of the linked studies, but it doesn't sound like you got past the intro of the actual article. The contradiction you are complaining about is the main point of most of the article.

So if resistant strains appear to develop much less frequently on organically managed chicken farms, why do they show up at the same alarming rates in organic chicken on the supermarket shelf? Urvashi Rangan, director of consumer safety and sustainability for Consumers Union, which publishes Consumer Reports, says no clear explanation has emerged. ...


Because the chain of delivery from the farm to your fridge that brings both types of chicken cross contaminates them at some point. Truck drivers are not the cleanest people. Neither are supermarket stackers. Those are just the two types I see regularly. When I look past the plastic curtain into the store area for the supermarket, that doesn`t look that clean either. I do not expect other people I cannot see to break the mold.

How well do the hooks at YOUR local slaughterhouse get cleaned? Are the organic animals butchered on the same table as non-organic animals? What do you mean you don`t know?
 
2014-01-09 07:10:00 AM  
I grew up around farms too. They were disgusting. They got cleaned once a year and stayed that way for a week. That was the week the inspector came around. The farmer and the inspector had a couple of beers and the inspector went away again.

I could tell which way the wind was blowing depending on whether I could smell cow shiat, pig shiat or chicken shiat.
 
das
2014-01-09 07:47:11 AM  
Done in one.
 
2014-01-09 08:01:04 AM  

Radioactive Ass: acohn: Cage-free means crowded in a big barn, with a food trough in the middle, and flap doors to go outside, which the chickens rarely do, because they're just as gluttonous as humans. The difference in taste is the placebo effect.

I had a great-uncle who had a fairly large duck farm in San Joaquin Valley back in the 60's. Same thing. Big barn, open area outside, ducks hung out in the barn by choice. That old bastard thought that it would be funny to take a 5 year old city kid in there with a bucket of feed in hand to feed the "Duckies". Hilarity ensued (for the adults who were watching).

I have no reason to think that chickens are much different only with sharper beaks and not as much fat on them.


I take it you've never seen either species' mating behavior, then. Chickens can be rough, they are predators, after all. Ducks are just nasty. They are very different creatures.
 
2014-01-09 08:06:56 AM  

ErinPac: nickerj1: Growing up around Purdue poultry farms in MD, I actually read the article and the studies he linked to. The author of that article is an idiot.

The article linked to multiple studies.  He seems to reference at least 4.  He even points out that the studies testing the farms, which is one of the graphs you linked, found less resistant bacteria.  He also points out that studies testing the meat in the supermarket (the consumer reports and FDA tests) found no significant difference in the rates of drug resistant bacteria, but they do not know why, though he suggests some possibilities such as slaughterhouse contamination.  It's good you read one of the linked studies, but it doesn't sound like you got past the intro of the actual article. The contradiction you are complaining about is the main point of most of the article.

So if resistant strains appear to develop much less frequently on organically managed chicken farms, why do they show up at the same alarming rates in organic chicken on the supermarket shelf? Urvashi Rangan, director of consumer safety and sustainability for Consumers Union, which publishes Consumer Reports, says no clear explanation has emerged. ...


Read the consumerist study his whole article is hinged on.  Go ahead, read it.  Tell me where it says the rate of contamination of drug resistantbacteria is the same in both supermarket organic chicken and supermarket conventional chicken.

Show your work.  Presuming the author is correct merely because he wrote 100 paragraphs based on LEAPING TO CONCLUSIONS isn't sufficient, sorry.

Hint: It doesn't.
 
2014-01-09 08:36:06 AM  
I was more disturbed about the contention that half of restaurants use the same cutting boards.  Kind of ruins the thought of that healthy salad I'm ordering.
 
2014-01-09 08:46:54 AM  
I treat chicken as a radioactive substance, so no, I will not forget to obsessively wash the knife or my hands after cutting chicken.

Kinda makes  you wonder if we need to import old school (scrawny but delicious) chickens from the Old World and raise 'em and pluck 'em ourselves.
 
2014-01-09 09:10:16 AM  
Mother jones. Therrre's a reliable source.
 
2014-01-09 09:12:30 AM  

Cyno01: Mitch Taylor's Bro: bronyaur1: No, but I do think that it tastes like an actual chicken instead of tofu.

Pretty much this. I'd actually expect it to be more dangerous because, in addition to the super-bacteria, it would also have the regular bacteria antibiotics are supposed to suppress.

Or we could just start vaccinating our goddamn chickens like the rest of the civilized world does... The US has nearly a million reported cases of salmonella poisoning every year. You know how many the UK had in 2010? <500. More people died from salmonella in the US than got sick in the UK.


We don't want our chickens to be autistic
 
2014-01-09 09:23:01 AM  

styckx: oblig


macross87: styckx: oblig

Thank you.

 
2014-01-09 09:57:35 AM  

timujin: You think that expensive organic chicken that you buy is a lot safer than regular chicken?

No, but I like to pretend it was raised more humanely.


Are you also for raising human children without giving them antibiotics?  To be humane of course.
 
2014-01-09 09:57:50 AM  
Even though I know it isn't quite as sanitary, I pay a little more fro the eggs from free roam chickens.   I just like the idea of my eggs coming from "free" chickens.
 
2014-01-09 10:07:52 AM  

dready zim: I go free range over organic. I once asked someone promoting organic food what the benefits to organic or the negative aspects of non-organic were so I could objectively decide and the most they could come up with was a paraphrasing of "Whooo! Chemicals!" like everything on the planet isn`t already made from chemicals...


Let me elaborate:  runoff.  As in fertilizer runoff, which produce the annual, oxygen-dead "dead zone" at the end of the Missouri river in the Gulf.  As in pesticide runoff, which poisons every bit of aquatic ecosystems they contact.  I hope you can see the implications.

Also, feeding grain to cattle changes the lipid profile of the meat, greatly increasing the amount of inflammatory omega-6 fatty acids, which in turn, promotes sub-clinical systemic inflammation in the body.  That lays the groundwork for all sorts of chronic diseases.  And these days, you're lucky if cattle is grain-fed.  Corn-based ethanol has made corn prices so high that cattle ranchers are resorting to feeding candy to their cattle.
 
2014-01-09 10:33:14 AM  
I'll become worried once a bacteria strain evolves to resist 160F internal temperature of the chicken I am cooking

Seriously the number of non-preventable food poisoning cases in the US you can literally count on both hands. And those will almost entirely come from non-meat products that have been contaminated in the production process. EVERYTHING else is the result of improper preparation, cross-contamination, and under-cooking your meat
 
2014-01-09 11:34:24 AM  
Techhell:

* I know they don't technically have 6 legs and 6 wings and live short lives of utter misery, but even if they did I wouldn't give a damn as long as they tasted delicious.

i.cdn.turner.com
 
2014-01-09 12:01:37 PM  
It is meat.  Microorganisms will want to take up shop on it.   These microorganism are likely to be resistant because antibiotics are overused in agriculture and medicine causing huge selection pressures to be resistant.  But just because some farms overuse them resulting in resistance does not mean that bacteria will fail to take up shop in a farm that does not use them.

And frankly, I seen many people go on on the benefits of going organic.  I don't recall any of them being so stupid as to suggest that bacteria could not or would not feed on organic chicken meat.    Has anyone suggested that bacteria that evolved resistance will suddenly decide the unevolve resistance in an instant because someone decides to go organic?  Evolution does not work that way.

Here is a simple guide:

Organic raw meats: Cook it at a high enough temperature and long enough to kill any microorganisms.
Unorganic raw meats: Cook it at a high enough temperature and long enough to kill any microorganisms.
Processed raw meats: Cook it at a high enough temperature and long enough to kill any microorganisms.
[Fill in the blank] raw meats: Cook it at a high enough temperature and long enough to kill any microorganisms.
 
2014-01-09 12:09:22 PM  

Deucednuisance: I take it you've never seen either species' mating behavior, then.


Left out part.  Sorry, I was just waking up.  Include this for a clearer view:

Chicken sex: Rooster walks up to hen, hops on her back, does his thing and hops off.  Hen fluffs her feathers, shakes off, and goes about the day's business of scratching and pecking.

Duck sex: Gang rape.  Seriously, five or six drakes will chase a duck to near exhaustion, grab her wings so she can't fly away, even going so far as to hold her head under water until she submits before the real fun starts.  It's brutal.

Chickens can be rough, they are predators, after all. Ducks are just nasty. They are very different creatures.
 
2014-01-09 12:13:49 PM  

Radioactive Ass: Deucednuisance: If you are ever in the DC Metro area, please stop by, and we can do a blind taste test comparing standard store-bought eggs and the ones my free-roaming, organically fed flock lays. There's a reason my neighbors (who couldn't care less about Organic labelling) will wait for weeks for the privilege of paying us over $4/dozen: they're really superior to the mass-production product. It's just that simple.

Sure. But you have to deal with all of that chicken shiat and chicken in-fighting. My sister did that for a few years and while she loved the eggs she gave it up as too much of a hassle. They were some pretty good eggs though. Really bright yellow yolks.


The chicken is only fit for stocks though once the egg laying is over.  Not that that is a bad thing of course.  Best stock I've ever made was from our chickens, and the meat stews in there as well, and makes great chicken tacos.
 
2014-01-09 12:23:34 PM  

TheMysteriousStranger: Has anyone suggested that bacteria that evolved resistance will suddenly decide the unevolve resistance in an instant because someone decides to go organic? Evolution does not work that way.


Yeah, actually it does.  Antibiotic resistance requires time and energy, so does bothering to grow a tail.  If there is no reason to need a tail, or antibiotic resistance, then evolution will select against them. 

Google vestigial organ.

I assume you were talking about "suddenly everyone decides to go organic" because anyone discussing evolution in the context of a single individual is an idiot.
 
2014-01-09 01:24:25 PM  

Solid Muldoon: They say that human flesh tastes like chicken.



So, I guess that's why it's called "long pork" huh?
 
2014-01-09 01:36:58 PM  

Ima4nic8or: This just confirms what I have always thought; there is only one significant difference between "organic" and regular versions of a particular food item...........cost.

Organic food is one of the greatest scams ever pulled on the American people.


Actually, from this comment I would say universal education and literacy are up there too.
 
2014-01-09 02:25:15 PM  

Techhell: * I know they don't technically have 6 legs and 6 wings and live short lives of utter misery, but even if they did I wouldn't give a damn as long as they tasted delicious.


People who spout this crap know nothing about chickens. They live short lives, assuredly, but misery? No.

The only difference between amoeba and chickens are the number of cells.
 
2014-01-09 02:46:56 PM  
I prefer all of my food to be slathered in delicious science.


/mmmm science
 
2014-01-09 04:16:53 PM  

Deucednuisance: Duck sex: Gang rape. Seriously, five or six drakes will chase a duck to near exhaustion, grab her wings so she can't fly away, even going so far as to hold her head under water until she submits before the real fun starts. It's brutal.


www.rave.ca
 
2014-01-09 07:30:29 PM  

abhorrent1: Organic anything is an overpriced ripoff. But go ahead and continue to fool yourselves into thinking they're somehow better for you.

/idiots


While consumers on both sides of the aisle are certainly idiots, I don't think everyone who buys organic thinks it's healthier - or at least, not from a "If I eat this it'll improve my health" - rather, there's the belief that it's healthier for the environment as we know it (which is not totally unfounded in my opinion, but I tend to shop locally, which helps compound the intention). I have little to no faith that there's anything an individual consumer can choose that will undo the damage done by chemicals and pollution generally, but it's a choice made available to consumers that gives the illusion of control.
 
2014-01-10 12:42:02 AM  

acohn: Don't Troll Me Bro!: You think that expensive organic chicken that you buy is a lot safer than regular chicken?

Safer?  No.  Better tasting?  Hell yes.  Actually gets bigger and retains its juices while I cook it instead of shriveling into a dry puck?  Yes.  More Nutritious?  Not sure about chicken, but for many foods yes.

Also, as a hunter I appreciate knowing that my food may have lived a less tortured life.  I take a lot of pride in the fact that when I kill prey it lived a decent life up until the moment a predator quickly ended it, and I'd like to extend that to the rest of my eating habits.

Organic standards for poultry don't require much more than organic feed + no antibiotics.  The birds can still be de-beaked, housed in crowded facilities, and all the other conditions that battery chickens have to suffer.  Only free-range, humanely-raise, and pastured chickens have specific living conditions requirements.


Oops.  That's what I had in my mind while I wrote that comment, just tired and got confused I guess.  The meat market I get my chicken from only buys from those farms.
 
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