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(The New York Times)   Governor Christie blocks three lanes of traffic. This is not a fat joke   (nytimes.com) divider line 528
    More: Obvious, Barbara Buono, Nabisco, Port Authority, traffic, Ms. Kelly  
•       •       •

2641 clicks; posted to Politics » on 08 Jan 2014 at 1:38 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



528 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-01-08 12:51:42 PM  
This is really not good for Christie. But just ignoring the politics of this, are the people who work for him sociopaths? What kind of people do this?
 
2014-01-08 12:55:05 PM  

DamnYankees: are the people who work for him sociopaths?


'"I feel badly about the kids," [Wildstein] texted.

"They are the children of Buono voters" [Kelly] said'

So he, at least, is not a sociopath, since he has the capacity for empathy. Not sure about her, though.

This is seriously bad for Christie, though. Like, maybe having to resign bad. You can't pull this kind of crap, gridlocking a city because the mayor, of the opposing party no less, kind of maybe dissed you.
 
2014-01-08 12:57:09 PM  
Yes it is:
assets.nydailynews.com
 
2014-01-08 12:57:29 PM  

nmrsnr: DamnYankees: are the people who work for him sociopaths?

'"I feel badly about the kids," [Wildstein] texted.

"They are the children of Buono voters" [Kelly] said'

So he, at least, is not a sociopath, since he has the capacity for empathy. Not sure about her, though.

This is seriously bad for Christie, though. Like, maybe having to resign bad. You can't pull this kind of crap, gridlocking a city because the mayor, of the opposing party no less, kind of maybe dissed you.


In New Jersey doing this doesn't even rise to politics as usual.
 
2014-01-08 12:58:12 PM  

nmrsnr: Like, maybe having to resign bad


I seriously doubt that.  He's too shifty a pol for that.
 
2014-01-08 12:59:22 PM  

nmrsnr: So he, at least, is not a sociopath, since he has the capacity for empathy. Not sure about her, though.

This is seriously bad for Christie, though. Like, maybe having to resign bad. You can't pull this kind of crap, gridlocking a city because the mayor, of the opposing party no less, kind of maybe dissed you.


If this doesn't cause a major shakeup of his administration at least, with him firing large number of his staff, or the "resigning to spend time with the family," then I'd be very surprised.

Not to mention that there may even be criminal implications. It may actually be illegal to retaliate politically like this. I'm not sure though, it's just that it's definitely a possibility.

Not to mention that any person who lost business due to the traffic snarls that day now has a pretty damn good case for a civil suit against the Port Authority and members of the Christie Administration, because there's no damn way any immunity would cover an act of political retaliation that would shield these guys. They clearly acted in bad faith and likely lost immunity to lawsuits as a result. Whoops!
 
2014-01-08 12:59:29 PM  

nmrsnr: This is seriously bad for Christie, though. Like, maybe having to resign bad. You can't pull this kind of crap, gridlocking a city because the mayor, of the opposing party no less, kind of maybe dissed you.


Nefarious: In New Jersey doing this doesn't even rise to politics as usual.


You can joke about that, but if its actually shown that Christie knew about this or ordered it, I think he'll be impeached.
 
2014-01-08 12:59:46 PM  
Yes it is, Subby.  And it's a fairly decent one at that.
 
2014-01-08 01:00:35 PM  

Rincewind53: Not to mention that there may even be criminal implications. It may actually be illegal to retaliate politically like this. I'm not sure though, it's just that it's definitely a possibility.


Whether or not its criminal I don't know, but it definitely opens up the government to huge civil lawsuits. Think of all the people who were damaged in some way by not being able to move between the cities.

Rincewind53: Not to mention that any person who lost business due to the traffic snarls that day now has a pretty damn good case for a civil suit against the Port Authority and members of the Christie Administration, because there's no damn way any immunity would cover an act of political retaliation that would shield these guys. They clearly acted in bad faith and likely lost immunity to lawsuits as a result. Whoops!


Oops, responded to fast.
 
2014-01-08 01:01:11 PM  

Nefarious: In New Jersey doing this doesn't even rise to politics as usual.


His aides are f*cking idiots though. Normally this stuff is just accusations. There isn't normally a massive smoking gun like in this case. The morons actually wrote down their plans to f*ck with Fort Lee. In email. And didn't scrub those emails.

That kind of incompetence may actually be his undoing.

At the very least, this is a delayed Christmas to Democratic opposition researchers.
 
2014-01-08 01:01:30 PM  
Non-staffer. Overstory zealous.
 
2014-01-08 01:02:03 PM  

DamnYankees: Whether or not its criminal I don't know, but it definitely opens up the government to huge civil lawsuits. Think of all the people who were damaged in some way by not being able to move between the cities.


I smell a pretty massive class action. If I were a lawyer in New Jersey or New York right now, I'd be frothing at the bit trying to be the first to file.
 
2014-01-08 01:02:07 PM  

Nefarious: In New Jersey doing this doesn't even rise to politics as usual.


In New Jersey, farking around with our traffic is considered a capital offense.
 
2014-01-08 01:02:53 PM  

Nefarious: In New Jersey doing this doesn't even rise to politics as usual.


Even were this true, and I honestly don't think it is, there's a big difference being doing it, and being caught. Even if everyone in the state does this kind of crap, they have to bring the hammer down once it's made public so that at least they can keep up the appearance of not being corrupt.
 
2014-01-08 01:03:55 PM  

Rincewind53: Nefarious: In New Jersey doing this doesn't even rise to politics as usual.

His aides are f*cking idiots though. Normally this stuff is just accusations. There isn't normally a massive smoking gun like in this case. The morons actually wrote down their plans to f*ck with Fort Lee. In email. And didn't scrub those emails.

That kind of incompetence may actually be his undoing.

At the very least, this is a delayed Christmas to Democratic opposition researchers.


That's the part that floors me.  They not only did it, but they left a trail.
 
2014-01-08 01:04:53 PM  

sigdiamond2000: Non-staffer. Overstory zealous.


I do enjoy this meme.
 
2014-01-08 01:05:14 PM  
And before you guys start throwing around comparisons to Nixon and his political enemies list, I have to say Christie is twice the man Nixon was.  Maybe three times the man.

/that is a fat joke
 
2014-01-08 01:05:31 PM  
Even Fox News is getting in on this:
i.imgur.com
 
2014-01-08 01:05:42 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: That's the part that floors me.  They not only did it, but they left a trail.


This is why part of me thinks Christie actually didn't know about it. If they were so blatant about it internally, and Christie knew, would he really go out there in December and completely lie about it? If it turns out he was involved, he's like the Rafael Palmeiro of politics.
 
2014-01-08 01:06:09 PM  

nmrsnr: This is seriously bad for Christie, though. Like, maybe having to resign bad. You can't pull this kind of crap, gridlocking a city because the mayor, of the opposing party no less, kind of maybe dissed you.


FTFA:  Mr. Christie's staff, appointees at the Port Authority and members of his campaign staff were all intimately involved in discussing the growing scandal and how to react to it as early as October. One series of text messages between Ms. Kelly and Mr. Wildstein indicates that in early August, at the same time they were discussing the plan for the lane closings, they were trying to set up a meeting between Mr. Christie and Mr. Samson. It is not clear, however, that the meeting was regarding the lane closings, although later emails make clear that Mr. Samson was involved in those plans.


Meh, that's a little thin.  Samson is head of the Port Authority.  It's not the craziest thing in the world, for him to meet with the Governor who appointed him.  Christie is enough of a politician to let other people handle things like this, for the sake of plausible deniability.

That said, politicians go under for less than this, so maybe there's a chance.  His office will have to continue to fark up, though.
 
2014-01-08 01:07:14 PM  

Rincewind53: Nefarious: In New Jersey doing this doesn't even rise to politics as usual.

His aides are f*cking idiots though. Normally this stuff is just accusations. There isn't normally a massive smoking gun like in this case. The morons actually wrote down their plans to f*ck with Fort Lee. In email. And didn't scrub those emails.

That kind of incompetence may actually be his undoing.

At the very least, this is a delayed Christmas to Democratic opposition researchers.


Yup.  "Don't put anything in writing that you wouldn't want to read about on the front page of the New York Times" is pretty basic stuff.  And yet.....
 
2014-01-08 01:09:18 PM  

DamnYankees: Marcus Aurelius: That's the part that floors me.  They not only did it, but they left a trail.

This is why part of me thinks Christie actually didn't know about it. If they were so blatant about it internally, and Christie knew, would he really go out there in December and completely lie about it? If it turns out he was involved, he's like the Rafael Palmeiro of politics.


Story as old as time -- it's not the crime, but the coverup.
 
2014-01-08 01:09:20 PM  
Shut down a few lanes of a highway for a couple of days? That's petty. Tell me when he digs up an airport runway in the middle of the night to piss his opponents off.
 
2014-01-08 01:10:15 PM  

DamnYankees: Marcus Aurelius: That's the part that floors me.  They not only did it, but they left a trail.

This is why part of me thinks Christie actually didn't know about it. If they were so blatant about it internally, and Christie knew, would he really go out there in December and completely lie about it? If it turns out he was involved, he's like the Rafael Palmeiro of politics.


It is entirely plausible that he knew about it, but didn't know that his underlings would be so stupid as to put it in writing.
 
2014-01-08 01:10:54 PM  
And with this we are now two full steps closer to "President" Rafael "The Alberta Murderer" Super Jesus Bienvenido.
 
2014-01-08 01:11:49 PM  
The "They are the children of Buono voters" is the most disgusting part. It's basically, "Fark those kids. Their parents don't support us." That is reprehensible. These people should be shunned by everyone.
 
2014-01-08 01:12:51 PM  

DamnYankees: Marcus Aurelius: That's the part that floors me.  They not only did it, but they left a trail.

This is why part of me thinks Christie actually didn't know about it. If they were so blatant about it internally, and Christie knew, would he really go out there in December and completely lie about it? If it turns out he was involved, he's like the Rafael Palmeiro of politics.


I agree.  He's just too savvy to not head this off, if he knew about it.  I hope.
 
2014-01-08 01:13:03 PM  
Only tangentially related, but this story reminded me of the days before EZ Pass.  I used to go over the NYC bridges every now and then before EZ Pass.  Holy crap, it is so much better these days.  Except, I guess, when Christie has a bug up his rather substantial ass.
 
2014-01-08 01:13:07 PM  

El_Perro: DamnYankees: Marcus Aurelius: That's the part that floors me.  They not only did it, but they left a trail.

This is why part of me thinks Christie actually didn't know about it. If they were so blatant about it internally, and Christie knew, would he really go out there in December and completely lie about it? If it turns out he was involved, he's like the Rafael Palmeiro of politics.

It is entirely plausible that he knew about it, but didn't know that his underlings would be so stupid as to put it in writing.


d6.img.v4.skyrock.net
 
2014-01-08 01:14:57 PM  

nmrsnr: "I feel badly about the kids," [Wildstein] texted.

"They are the children of Buono voters" [Kelly] said'


to be fair, you really do need to have suffered brain damage to have voted for Buono.  a tree stump could have run a better campaign.
 
2014-01-08 01:16:09 PM  

DamnYankees: Marcus Aurelius: That's the part that floors me.  They not only did it, but they left a trail.

This is why part of me thinks Christie actually didn't know about it. If they were so blatant about it internally, and Christie knew, would he really go out there in December and completely lie about it? If it turns out he was involved, he's like the Rafael Palmeiro of politics.


My guess is, Christie didn't know exactly what was happening, but knew they were going to fark with them.  To my mind, the complete lack of security around this (Email?  Really??? That's what the goddamn phone is for, you assholes.) is the real firing offense.  If they can't keep a secret on something this damaging, how the fark could you trust them to keep normal political secrets?

If I were in a political office, I'd do above-board CYA memos by email , and everything else I could by voice.  2 cells - one for work and a burner for ratfarking.  I mean, this is basic.
 
2014-01-08 01:16:26 PM  
Christie's presidential ambitions are, obviously, over.  The question now is whether this will get him impeached, or land him in jail.  It really depends on whether his staffers roll him or not.
 
2014-01-08 01:17:28 PM  

Rincewind53: DamnYankees: Whether or not its criminal I don't know, but it definitely opens up the government to huge civil lawsuits. Think of all the people who were damaged in some way by not being able to move between the cities.

I smell a pretty massive class action. If I were a lawyer in New Jersey or New York right now, I'd be frothing at the bit trying to be the first to file.


If the allegations are correct, it is in fact a criminal matter.
 
2014-01-08 01:18:05 PM  
Wow, what an asshole.
 
2014-01-08 01:19:56 PM  

El_Perro: It is entirely plausible that he knew about it, but didn't know that his underlings would be so stupid as to put it in writing.


My understanding is that these were largely in "personal" email accounts.  They probably thought they were being clever.
 
2014-01-08 01:21:52 PM  

nmrsnr: so that at least they can keep up the appearance of not being corrupt.


Appearing to be not corrupt has never been a major concern of Christie before, don't see why that would change now.
 
2014-01-08 01:22:10 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: My guess is, Christie didn't know exactly what was happening, but knew they were going to fark with them. To my mind, the complete lack of security around this (Email? Really??? That's what the goddamn phone is for, you assholes.) is the real firing offense. If they can't keep a secret on something this damaging, how the fark could you trust them to keep normal political secrets?


Worse than that is that they clearly thought they were being secure.  These folks presumably have state email addresses, yet at least some of them were using Yahoo/Gmail.  They were "smart" enough to realize that doing this through their official email was a bad idea, yet too dumb to realize that doing it over ANY email was just as traceable.
 
2014-01-08 01:23:51 PM  

Rincewind53: Even Fox News is getting in on this:
[i.imgur.com image 700x593]


If Fox news goes after Christie are they showing a far-right-wing bias or a neutral bias.  Unclear.
 
2014-01-08 01:25:14 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: Meh, that's a little thin.


Kelly is his deputy chief of staff, and she sounds like she was calling the shots. Not only that, but there were two co-conspirators who went along, original fall-guy Wildstein and Port Authority guy Samson. Neither one, as far as has been disclosed, asked "is the Governor okay with this?" which means that either Kelly presented it as coming from Christie when it wasn't, Christie has so little control over, and commands so little respect from, his appointees that they don't care what he would think about it, or Christie was okay with it.

Only the first two give Christie any kind of cover, and they make him look weak and out of control, which don't help his tough guy in control image he's groomed.

Any way this plays out, Christie is farked.
 
2014-01-08 01:25:54 PM  

mrshowrules: Rincewind53: Even Fox News is getting in on this:
[i.imgur.com image 700x593]

If Fox news goes after Christie are they showing a far-right-wing bias or a neutral bias.  Unclear.


I think some conservatives have been uncomfortable with him.  Maybe this gives them an opportunity to ditch a guy they fear they'll have to settle for in 2016.  In other words, avoid another Romney situation.
 
2014-01-08 01:25:54 PM  
Another issue here is that its highly unlikely this is a one time event. Christie has been in politics a while, and he has a reputation. He was even denied the 2012 VP because the Romney people thought he had too many skeletons. Does anyone really think if he runs for President there won't be more things like this?
 
2014-01-08 01:27:11 PM  
I'm not saying that Christie necessarily knew, I'm just saying it makes more sense that he did. What would be the point for the underlings to do it if their boss didn't know. They had nothing to gain otherwise. If you're specifically going to seek out retribution in the name of someone, wouldn't you want them to know that you're doing it?

Let's say someone called my friend a no-good jerk and I decided that that guy needed a punch in the nose. If I were to drive across town and punch the guy in the nose, would I keep that a secret from my friend?
 
2014-01-08 01:28:13 PM  

Rincewind53: Even Fox News is getting in on this:
[i.imgur.com image 700x593]


Fox news is getting in on it because he dared play nice with Obama
 
2014-01-08 01:28:33 PM  

nmrsnr: Benevolent Misanthrope: Meh, that's a little thin.

Kelly is his deputy chief of staff, and she sounds like she was calling the shots. Not only that, but there were two co-conspirators who went along, original fall-guy Wildstein and Port Authority guy Samson. Neither one, as far as has been disclosed, asked "is the Governor okay with this?" which means that either Kelly presented it as coming from Christie when it wasn't, Christie has so little control over, and commands so little respect from, his appointees that they don't care what he would think about it, or Christie was okay with it.

Only the first two give Christie any kind of cover, and they make him look weak and out of control, which don't help his tough guy in control image he's groomed.

Any way this plays out, Christie is farked.


Don't forget that Wildstein was one of Christie's closest friends since high school.  There's no way Christie was out of the loop.
 
2014-01-08 01:29:36 PM  

mrshowrules: Rincewind53: Even Fox News is getting in on this:
[i.imgur.com image 700x593]

If Fox news goes after Christie are they showing a far-right-wing bias or a neutral bias.  Unclear.


Christie is an apostate with heretical tendencies.  Plus he thinks for himself, so he's not to be trusted.
 
2014-01-08 01:29:41 PM  

Diogenes: mrshowrules: Rincewind53: Even Fox News is getting in on this:
[i.imgur.com image 700x593]

If Fox news goes after Christie are they showing a far-right-wing bias or a neutral bias.  Unclear.

I think some conservatives have been uncomfortable with him.  Maybe this gives them an opportunity to ditch a guy they fear they'll have to settle for in 2016.  In other words, avoid another Romney situation.


Yep.  The Free Republic crowd are actually cheering this.
 
2014-01-08 01:30:37 PM  

JerseyTim: They had nothing to gain otherwise. If you're specifically going to seek out retribution in the name of someone, wouldn't you want them to know that you're doing it?


I don't think I buy this. The Deputy CoS may have just hated the mayor herself and not involved Christie at all.

I'm not saying Christie is innocent, I just don't think this particular argument is a good one.
 
2014-01-08 01:31:31 PM  

Diogenes: mrshowrules: Rincewind53: Even Fox News is getting in on this:
[i.imgur.com image 700x593]

If Fox news goes after Christie are they showing a far-right-wing bias or a neutral bias.  Unclear.

I think some conservatives have been uncomfortable with him.  Maybe this gives them an opportunity to ditch a guy they fear they'll have to settle for in 2016.  In other words, avoid another Romney situation.


I support the GOP ditching any chance of winning in 2016.
 
2014-01-08 01:33:42 PM  

DamnYankees: Another issue here is that its highly unlikely this is a one time event.


It definitely was not.  One of the emails notes that Sokolich was on the list after Mayor Fulop, another mayor who was punished for not endorsing Christie.
 
2014-01-08 01:33:46 PM  

Hollie Maea: Diogenes: mrshowrules: Rincewind53: Even Fox News is getting in on this:
[i.imgur.com image 700x593]

If Fox news goes after Christie are they showing a far-right-wing bias or a neutral bias.  Unclear.

I think some conservatives have been uncomfortable with him.  Maybe this gives them an opportunity to ditch a guy they fear they'll have to settle for in 2016.  In other words, avoid another Romney situation.

Yep.  The Free Republic crowd are actually cheering this.


Why wouldn't they?  They wouldn't want someone like him actually running anymore than the Democratic Underground wants a conservative, blue dog Democrat's name next to the "D" lever, come presidential election time.
 
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