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(Bill Moyers)   The good news: Political polarization and gridlock in Washington DC creates wealth and stability for Americans. The bad news: The top 1% of Americans   (billmoyers.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, Political Polarization, Washington DC, Americans, University of New York, wealths  
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609 clicks; posted to Politics » on 07 Jan 2014 at 6:41 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2014-01-07 07:40:49 PM  
4 votes:

The_Man_On_The_Phone: Serious question: Begin Troll:

If the 1% gets taxed out of being the 1%, won't the economy take a dive?


We only tax income. Their fortunes aren't being confiscated. In other words, they can't be "taxed out of being the top 1%".

Aren't they holding this place together, so to speak?

No.

You must be pathetic. That's the best you can do? I live with my mom.
2014-01-07 08:11:33 PM  
3 votes:

The_Man_On_The_Phone: I see a lot of grumbling over the rich in here, but not really an answer to my question, so I'll just cut to the chase-- if the 1% were to be taxed like liberals want them to be, our economy would plummet from the drain on their resources.  We all benefit from them being on top.


Nonsense. If capital gains and income tax were raised just to the rates in place in the mid-1990's, and if carried interest and other accounting fictions were to be banned, that alone would go a long way towards balancing the budget, reducing the deficit, and narrowing the inequality in our economy overall. Not a single new idea is needed; simply reinstate Glass Steagal, ban high speed trading, tax trades at .0001%, fully repeal the Bush tax cuts, and aggressively prosecute tax cheats and anyone parking money offshore.
2014-01-07 08:08:15 PM  
3 votes:

demaL-demaL-yeH: zeroman987: The_Man_On_The_Phone: Tomahawk513: The_Man_On_The_Phone: I see a lot of grumbling over the rich in here, but not really an answer to my question, so I'll just cut to the chase-- if the 1% were to be taxed like liberals want them to be, our economy would plummet from the drain on their resources.  We all benefit from them being on top.

Sadly, this is only the second most ridiculous post I've seen today.  You really,  really, ought to look up historical tax rates.  HINT: They were a LOT higher!

This is easily addressed. There was no competition.  Now we have China and other markets where the stakes are much higher.

You can't be real. You really can't. No one can be this stupid.

That's not a bet I'd care to take.


I love that argument though, that rich folks will simply pick up and go somewhere else.  Where would they go?

Australia? Higher taxes.
Scandinavia? It's cold, and again, higher taxes.
Mexico? Private security costs money.
Mainland Europe? Say it with me now... Higher taxes.
Canada? See Scandinavia.
2014-01-07 07:48:22 PM  
3 votes:

Debeo Summa Credo: coyo: The_Man_On_The_Phone: Serious question:
If the 1% gets taxed out of being the 1%, won't the economy take a dive?
Aren't they holding this place together, so to speak?

Serious answer : they take disproportionately more money out of the economy than they put in. So no, they are tearing the place apart.

How do they take "disproportionately" more money? They earn what they earn, like everyone else.


Oh, look, it's the moronic argument that gambling on Wall Street is earningmoney, building things for people to buy, harvesting food and raw materials by the sweat of the brow, or providing services that have any impact on communities anywhere outside gated enclaves. They build nothing. They create nothing. They contribute nothing of any value to society. They pay lower tax rates. And they suck money out of the economy that could go toward building things, harvesting food and raw materials, or providing services that improve people's lives.

Come back when the Walton heirs do anything useful to anybody but the Walton heirs. (No farking tax dodges allowed.)
2014-01-07 07:36:03 PM  
3 votes:

The_Man_On_The_Phone: I see a lot of grumbling over the rich in here, but not really an answer to my question, so I'll just cut to the chase-- if the 1% were to be taxed like liberals want them to be, our economy would plummet from the drain on their resources.  We all benefit from them being on top.


Ok, kid, I'll put it nicely, this time....
How about if 'we liberals' only bumped up their tax rates back to where the glorious St. Ronnie had them? Be a hell of a sight better revenue-wise than we have now.
Quick, move those goalposts, because we all know the rich will not suffer ANY tax increase!

Now, cut the crap thinking liberals are actually the problem.
2014-01-07 07:31:36 PM  
3 votes:

The_Man_On_The_Phone: I see a lot of grumbling over the rich in here, but not really an answer to my question, so I'll just cut to the chase-- DERP.


FTFY
Capital is nothing without labor. The wealthy can speculate their fortunes higher and higher, but they're not the ones moving the wheels of society, they're not the ones making, building, producing. All capital can do is grease the wheels, and from the anemic way our economy is piddling along, those wheels are screaming for it.
The only way is to get that capital moving throughout the economy, not bouncing from stock pick to stock pick or sitting in a Cayman Island account. We have to get it moving, so everyone from the bottom up gets a chance to touch that money, or we're going to see continuing stagnation. And the thing is, even after that wealth has been redistributed, it'll find its way back to the rich.
2014-01-07 07:29:17 PM  
3 votes:

The_Man_On_The_Phone: I see a lot of grumbling over the rich in here, but not really an answer to my question, so I'll just cut to the chase-- if the 1% were to be taxed like liberals want them to be, our economy would plummet from the drain on their resources.  We all benefit from them being on top.


King George (the 3rd) wishes he had more people like you.
2014-01-07 06:46:39 PM  
3 votes:
When the only common sense legislation is to skim from the rich's unprecedented holdings for the betterment of the nation, it's in the interests of the selfish among the rich to prevent any legislation at all.
2014-01-07 06:15:07 PM  
3 votes:
Is the Obvious tab out taking a smoke break?
2014-01-07 10:06:51 PM  
2 votes:
The article never really gets to the heart of the issue. That the people benefitting from the chaos are the ones orchestrating it. These people own the government, the legislative machinery, and the judiciary, bought and paid for.
2014-01-07 08:03:04 PM  
2 votes:

tinfoil-hat maggie: demaL-demaL-yeH: Debeo Summa Credo: coyo: The_Man_On_The_Phone: Serious question:
If the 1% gets taxed out of being the 1%, won't the economy take a dive?
Aren't they holding this place together, so to speak?

Serious answer : they take disproportionately more money out of the economy than they put in. So no, they are tearing the place apart.

How do they take "disproportionately" more money? They earn what they earn, like everyone else.

Oh, look, it's the moronic argument that gambling on Wall Street is earningmoney, building things for people to buy, harvesting food and raw materials by the sweat of the brow, or providing services that have any impact on communities anywhere outside gated enclaves. They build nothing. They create nothing. They contribute nothing of any value to society. They pay lower tax rates. And they suck money out of the economy that could go toward building things, harvesting food and raw materials, or providing services that improve people's lives.

Come back when the Walton heirs do anything useful to anybody but the Walton heirs. (No farking tax dodges allowed.)

Vive La Revolution
[theakumalian.com image 440x330]


No revolution required. I just want a return to status quo ante in the War of Destruction of the Middle Class. They can keep their têtes.
Wall Street, on the other hand? Against the farking wall, metaphorically speaking: Strip the ill-gotten wealth with interest and make them work for a living.
2014-01-07 07:56:35 PM  
2 votes:

The_Man_On_The_Phone: Tomahawk513: The_Man_On_The_Phone: I see a lot of grumbling over the rich in here, but not really an answer to my question, so I'll just cut to the chase-- if the 1% were to be taxed like liberals want them to be, our economy would plummet from the drain on their resources.  We all benefit from them being on top.

Sadly, this is only the second most ridiculous post I've seen today.  You really,  really, ought to look up historical tax rates.  HINT: They were a LOT higher!

This is easily addressed. There was no competition.  Now we have China and other markets where the stakes are much higher.


You can't be real. You really can't. No one can be this stupid.
2014-01-07 07:52:40 PM  
2 votes:

The_Man_On_The_Phone: This is easily addressed. There was no competition. Now we have China and other markets where the stakes are much higher.


There was plenty of competition - a post war Germany was rapidly expanding, England was still a major player, and soon Japan became a major trading force.. And it is easily argued that we've greatly benefitted from cheap labor and bond financing from China.

We're still one of the world's top goods manufacturers, top energy producers, the world's top innovator (in terms of new global companies and patents), top software creator, tied for aerospace manufacture, and create more college educated people than any other nation.

And with the rise of China's economy, it opens up a massive market for us to sell to. They're already trying to tear down our doors for our ample fossil fuel supplies.
2014-01-07 07:36:40 PM  
2 votes:

The_Man_On_The_Phone: I see a lot of grumbling over the rich in here, but not really an answer to my question, so I'll just cut to the chase-- if the 1% were to be taxed like liberals want them to be, our economy would plummet from the drain on their resources.  We all benefit from them being on top.


They always will be the 1% now if we taxed them the same as was done in the 40's and 50's they'd still have more money than you will ever have over you lifetime. Also how do we benefit? It's a global economy and free trade so Americans can compete for $2 a day making Nikes right because I bet you also think we don't need a minimum wage.

So really what do they do?
2014-01-07 07:20:58 PM  
2 votes:
The 1% would be making more money if the gridlock and polarization weren't keeping the rest from making money.  The 1% will always make money, but too many of them see it as a zero-sum game so for them to win, somebody has to lose, and for them to win big, many people have to lose.
2014-01-07 07:17:52 PM  
2 votes:

The_Man_On_The_Phone: Serious question:

If the 1% gets taxed out of being the 1%, won't the economy take a dive?

Aren't they holding this place together, so to speak?


without the serfs, the king is a nobody.
2014-01-07 07:15:48 PM  
2 votes:

Debeo Summa Credo: coyo: The_Man_On_The_Phone: Serious question:

If the 1% gets taxed out of being the 1%, won't the economy take a dive?

Aren't they holding this place together, so to speak?

Serious answer : they take disproportionately more money out of the economy than they put in. So no, they are tearing the place apart.

How do they take "disproportionately" more money? They earn what they earn, like everyone else.


"Earn" doesn't mean what you seem to think it does, in the context of the 1%ers.
2014-01-07 07:02:49 PM  
2 votes:

The_Man_On_The_Phone: Serious question:

If the 1% gets taxed out of being the 1%, won't the economy take a dive?

Aren't they holding this place together, so to speak?


Serious answer : they take disproportionately more money out of the economy than they put in. So no, they are tearing the place apart.
2014-01-07 06:21:02 PM  
2 votes:
Some douche said the same in Forbes last week.

It's all fun and games until everybody is poor and won't buy your shiat.
2014-01-08 09:19:55 PM  
1 vote:

tbeatty: The good news is they pay taxes so the rest don't have to.


Sure they do...almost as much as Santa Claus and the Tooth fairy combined.

i.chzbgr.com
2014-01-08 12:50:21 AM  
1 vote:

coyo: Debeo Summa Credo: coyo: The_Man_On_The_Phone: Serious question:

If the 1% gets taxed out of being the 1%, won't the economy take a dive?

Aren't they holding this place together, so to speak?

Serious answer : they take disproportionately more money out of the economy than they put in. So no, they are tearing the place apart.

How do they take "disproportionately" more money? They earn what they earn, like everyone else.

They are excellent at getting money efficiently. That means that their return on investment is much higher than what they put in.


Feudalism STILL sucks, and say what you will, WE AREN'T RETURNING to it---
2014-01-07 09:50:21 PM  
1 vote:

tinfoil-hat maggie: Bugerz: I feel like going off on some random tangential rant inaccurately comparing the end of Rome to the current affairs of 'MURKA!

Do it you'll feel better ; )

/For SPQR
[encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com image 293x172]


COPY/PASTA WHARGARBL ENGAGE!

1 - Staggering Increase in the Cost of Elections, with Dubious Campaign Funding Sources: Our 2012 election reportedly cost $3 billion. All of it was raised from private sources - often creating the appearance, or the reality, that our leaders are beholden to special interest groups. During the late Roman Republic, elections became staggeringly expensive, with equally deplorable results.

2 - Politics as the Road to Personal Wealth: During the late Roman Republic period, one of the main roads to wealth was holding public office, and exploiting such positions to accumulate personal wealth. As Lessig notes: Congressman, Senators and their staffs leverage their government service to move to private sector positions - that pay three to ten times their government compensation. Given this financial arrangement, "Their focus is therefore not so much on the people who sent them to Washington. Their focus is instead on those who will make them rich." (Republic Lost)

3 - Continuous War: A national state of security arises, distracting attention from domestic challenges with foreign wars. Similar to the late Roman Republic, the US - for the past 100 years - has either been fighting a war, recovering from a war, or preparing for a new war: WW I (1917-18), WW II (1941-1945), Cold War (1947-1991), Korean War (1950-1953), Vietnam (1953-1975), Gulf War (1990-1991), Afghanistan (2001-ongoing), and Iraq (2003-2011). And, this list is far from complete.

4 - Foreign Powers Lavish Money/Attention on the Republic's Leaders: Foreign wars lead to growing influence, by foreign powers and interests, on the Republic's political leaders - true for Rome and true for us. In the past century, foreign embassies, agents and lobbyists have proliferated in our nation's capital. As one specific example: A foreign businessman donated $100 million to Bill Clinton's various activities. Clinton "opened doors" for him, and sometimes acted in ways contrary to stated American interests and foreign policy.

5 - Profits Made Overseas Shape the Republic's Internal Policies: As the fortunes of Rome's aristocracy increasingly derived from foreign lands, Roman policy was shaped to facilitate these fortunes. American billionaires and corporations increasingly influence our elections. In many cases, they are only nominally American - with interests not aligned with those of the American public. For example, Fox News is part of international media group News Corp., with over $30 billion in revenues worldwide. Is Fox News' jingoism a product of News Corp.'s non-U.S. interests?

6 - Collapse of the Middle Class: In the period just before the Roman Republic's fall, the Roman middle class was crushed - destroyed by cheap overseas slave labor. In our own day, we've witnessed rising

7 - Gerrymandering: Rome's late Republic used various methods to reduce the power of common citizens. The GOP has so effectively gerrymandered Congressional districts that, even though House Republican candidates received only about 48 percent of the popular vote in the 2012 election - they ended up with the majority (53 percent) of the seats.

8 - Loss of the Spirit of Compromise: The Roman Republic, like ours, relied on a system of checks and balances. Compromise is needed for this type of system to function. In the end, the Roman Republic lost that spirit of compromise, with politics increasingly polarized between
2014-01-07 08:10:48 PM  
1 vote:

tinfoil-hat maggie: Isitoveryet: tinfoil-hat maggie: So you've never heard of foreign mercenaries before? Sure Machiavelli wasn't crazy about them but that was for defense of a nation-state/city-state and this would just be an estate.

o.k. the shiat hits the fan right now, the poors are storming the estate, what do you do, what do you do?

foreign mercs.

you have 2 choices, drug addled farmers who you can't communicate with & the Mexicans to the south.

check and mate

Russian Spetznaz, lot's of Brit's and others got training in Iraq and Afganistan. All kinds of choices.


1. I speak Russian and I shoot straight.
2. Mercs are practical guys (even back in the time of Nick the Dick Machiavelli) who know when it's pointless to die for no reason.
2014-01-07 07:58:30 PM  
1 vote:

zeroman987: The_Man_On_The_Phone: Tomahawk513: The_Man_On_The_Phone: I see a lot of grumbling over the rich in here, but not really an answer to my question, so I'll just cut to the chase-- if the 1% were to be taxed like liberals want them to be, our economy would plummet from the drain on their resources.  We all benefit from them being on top.

Sadly, this is only the second most ridiculous post I've seen today.  You really,  really, ought to look up historical tax rates.  HINT: They were a LOT higher!

This is easily addressed. There was no competition.  Now we have China and other markets where the stakes are much higher.

You can't be real. You really can't. No one can be this stupid.


That's not a bet I'd care to take.
2014-01-07 07:57:27 PM  
1 vote:

The_Man_On_The_Phone: This is simply not true. They very much are the architects of modern-day society. This is why you have an iPhone, an iPad, a personal computer, all the modern conveniences you enjoy. You seem to think that eliminating them through high taxes is simply going to replace them with something else, when it's far more likely they are going to cut corners to save money, including leaving areas where they employ hundreds if not thousands of people. You simply cannot "unplug" the 1% without heavy repercussions.


I like your theory that people change the world through elaborate plans bordering on manifest destiny. Truly, Mr Gates helped ripoff then refine a standardized GUI interface with an operating system because he knew he was a titan of industry, not because he wanted to make a buck off it by selling the idea to other people.
2014-01-07 07:55:42 PM  
1 vote:

tinfoil-hat maggie: demaL-demaL-yeH: tinfoil-hat maggie: UberDave: And by stability, he means, "not at the gate to our circular driveway with torches and pitchforks".

They'll just hire a private army if they haven't already if people ever do go that far.

Mags, I have to wonder how effective that approach will be when it's the guards' families who are carrying the torches and pitchforks. And just how long the guards will want to hold out when hungry people with modern arms offer the guards the opportunity to live if they open the gates.

So you've never heard of foreign mercenaries before? Sure Machiavelli wasn't crazy about them but that was for defense of a nation-state/city-state and this would just be an estate.


Yeah. No. They aren't getting in the country. And they'd be cut off and sitting ducks if they did, especially in your neck of the woods. It's not like we can't find somebody who speaks their lingo well enough to tell them that they get to live if they throw open the gates. (A few well-placed rounds of .308 Win does wonders for motivation and cooperation.)
2014-01-07 07:51:06 PM  
1 vote:

The_Man_On_The_Phone: I see a lot of grumbling over the rich in here, but not really an answer to my question, so I'll just cut to the chase-- if the 1% were to be taxed like liberals want them to be, our economy would plummet from the drain on their resources.  We all benefit from them being on top.


And how do you think "liberals" want the rich to be taxed, exactly, sweetie?

/By the way, tell your bosses you are a horrible plant.
2014-01-07 07:49:11 PM  
1 vote:

The_Man_On_The_Phone: Tomahawk513: The_Man_On_The_Phone: I see a lot of grumbling over the rich in here, but not really an answer to my question, so I'll just cut to the chase-- if the 1% were to be taxed like liberals want them to be, our economy would plummet from the drain on their resources.  We all benefit from them being on top.

Sadly, this is only the second most ridiculous post I've seen today.  You really,  really, ought to look up historical tax rates.  HINT: They were a LOT higher!

This is easily addressed. There was no competition.  Now we have China and other markets where the stakes are much higher.


i am scratching my head trying to make sense of how easily you addressed that.
2014-01-07 07:45:59 PM  
1 vote:

The_Man_On_The_Phone: I see a lot of grumbling over the rich in here, but not really an answer to my question, so I'll just cut to the chase-- if the 1% were to be taxed like liberals want them to be, our economy would plummet from the drain on their resources.  We all benefit from them being on top.


Income tax rates on the top income earners in the 1940's - 50's was at 90%. Most people consider this to be the most prosperous time in US history. It wasn't until the early 1980's that we lowered the top tax rate from 70%.

2.bp.blogspot.com
2014-01-07 07:38:06 PM  
1 vote:

Debeo Summa Credo: coyo: The_Man_On_The_Phone: Serious question:

If the 1% gets taxed out of being the 1%, won't the economy take a dive?

Aren't they holding this place together, so to speak?

Serious answer : they take disproportionately more money out of the economy than they put in. So no, they are tearing the place apart.

How do they take "disproportionately" more money? They earn what they earn, like everyone else.


Shuffling money from one place to another without actually creating anything does not count as "earning" it.
2014-01-07 07:36:40 PM  
1 vote:

The_Man_On_The_Phone: I see a lot of grumbling over the rich in here, but not really an answer to my question, so I'll just cut to the chase-- if the 1% were to be taxed like liberals want them to be, our economy would plummet from the drain on their resources.  We all benefit from them being on top.


Sadly, this is only the second most ridiculous post I've seen today.  You really,  really, ought to look up historical tax rates.  HINT: They were a LOT higher!
2014-01-07 07:25:41 PM  
1 vote:

toadist: People who need handouts are certainly getting a good deal lately.


Yeah, that food stamp cut and the continuing wrangling over unemployment benefits sure is a sweet deal.
2014-01-07 07:24:55 PM  
1 vote:
I see a lot of grumbling over the rich in here, but not really an answer to my question, so I'll just cut to the chase-- if the 1% were to be taxed like liberals want them to be, our economy would plummet from the drain on their resources.  We all benefit from them being on top.
2014-01-07 07:24:47 PM  
1 vote:

toadist: Well, if nothing else the last few years have shored up the 'dependents' vote.    People who need handouts are certainly getting a good deal  lately.

Next election will be more of the same,  what can I get with my vote.   More handouts, freebies, welfare, food stamps and free poor people insurance like Medicaid or OBAMACARE.   Redistribute me some wealth.


LOL!  they have refrigerators!
2014-01-07 07:17:48 PM  
1 vote:

fusillade762: Is the Obvious tab out taking a smoke break?


Obvious tag is out panhandling since its unemployment ran out and its food stamps were cut.
2014-01-07 06:59:43 PM  
1 vote:
Serious question:

If the 1% gets taxed out of being the 1%, won't the economy take a dive?

Aren't they holding this place together, so to speak?
2014-01-07 06:48:17 PM  
1 vote:

edmo: Some douche said the same in Forbes last week.

It's all fun and games until everybody is poor and won't buy your shiat.


This.
2014-01-07 06:46:04 PM  
1 vote:

UberDave: And by stability, he means, "not at the gate to our circular driveway with torches and pitchforks".


They'll just hire a private army if they haven't already if people ever do go that far.
2014-01-07 06:07:28 PM  
1 vote:
And by stability, he means, "not at the gate to our circular driveway with torches and pitchforks".
 
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