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(NPR)   The US Army is starting to realize that too many of its leaders are big, mean poopy heads who don't say enough nice things to all the recruits and make them has sads all the time   (npr.org) divider line 222
    More: Sad, US Army, Pete Bayer, University of San Diego, U.S. Naval War College, Pfc, homeless veterans  
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8420 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Jan 2014 at 1:44 PM (28 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-07 01:15:06 PM
But there are more than 100,000 officers in the Army, from noncommissioned sergeants to generals.

Come on NPR, you should know better.

"Leaders" would have been a better word.
 
2014-01-07 01:33:57 PM
During basic training, my Drill Sergeants went apeshiat on another recruit causing him to have a heart attack. He almost died on the spot and was later given a medical discharge.

The Drill Sergeants dialed it down for a while after that, and by a while I mean like a day.
 
2014-01-07 01:46:26 PM

dittybopper: But there are more than 100,000 officers in the Army, from noncommissioned sergeants to generals.

Come on NPR, you should know better.

"Leaders" would have been a better word.


Supervisors.
 
2014-01-07 01:46:43 PM
Someone needs to rewrite one of the speeches in Patton for the precious-snowflake participation-trophy generation...
 
2014-01-07 01:46:43 PM
If you can't handle an asshole screaming in your face, how can you handle bullets whizzing past your head?
 
2014-01-07 01:48:15 PM
They're not supposed to do paperwork. They're supposed to kill "the enemy." Killing is a hard task and they need to be hard people to do it.

I hate this pussy country.
 
2014-01-07 01:49:06 PM

ReverendJynxed: If you can't handle an asshole screaming in your face, how can you handle bullets whizzing past your head?


I would never put my life on the line or fight with any resolve if the guys next to me and above me were assholes who didn't respect me.   I can handle physical danger.  Disrespect and emotional abuse is another thing.
 
2014-01-07 01:49:33 PM

ReverendJynxed: If you can't handle an asshole screaming in your face, how can you handle bullets whizzing past your head?



The people they describe in the article aren't that.  They sound like sociopaths, and probably are.

Big organizations often make it easy for sociopaths to climb the ladder.
 
2014-01-07 01:49:34 PM

ReverendJynxed: If you can't handle an asshole screaming in your face, how can you handle bullets whizzing past your head?


www.movie-roulette.com
 
2014-01-07 01:49:37 PM

ReverendJynxed: If you can't handle an asshole screaming in your face, how can you handle bullets whizzing past your head?


Bullets are easier to deal with than some officers.
 
2014-01-07 01:49:51 PM
That's General Poopy Head, maggot!
 
2014-01-07 01:50:21 PM
Just go back to the old ways.  If you get some SOB who thinks a shiny bar on his collar makes him suddenly the reincarnation of Julius Caesar, Napoleon, and Rommel all in one... toss a fragmentation grenade into his tent.
 
2014-01-07 01:50:44 PM
Wait, so Full Metal Jacket was a documentary?
 
2014-01-07 01:50:48 PM
I think a bigger problem is that we have way too many generals and admirals.  In fact, did you know that we now have more Admirals than we have ships?  The Brits have a similar problem as well.  During World War II, we had about one admiral for every twenty some ships, and now we have about two admirals to each vessel.  The army has a similar problem with way too many senior officers, but there isn't anything as dramatic to compare it to.

It's not just the cost of these senior officers, but their large staffs, and the fact that they feel pressure to find a way to justify their existence.
 
2014-01-07 01:51:20 PM
mikethemuse.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-01-07 01:52:33 PM

RKade: They're not supposed to do paperwork. They're supposed to kill "the enemy." Killing is a hard task and they need to be hard people to do it.

I hate this pussy country.


Pro-high military suicide rate is not a position many would take, but you're clearly no pussy.
 
2014-01-07 01:53:02 PM
I remember hearing a story from a Ranger buddy about a higher-ranking commander being a complete hard-ass (go figure) and he liked to make a point about Rangers. He dove into the mud in full dress in front of the PX, got up screaming "Rangers lead the WAY!" and proceeded to go shopping covered in mud.

/csb
 
2014-01-07 01:53:12 PM

ReverendJynxed: If you can't handle an asshole screaming in your face, how can you handle bullets whizzing past your head?


2 different skill sets.
 
2014-01-07 01:54:42 PM
It's the switch to a garrison military. The B.S. is gonna get dialed to 11, and then some.
 
2014-01-07 01:55:05 PM

RKade: They're not supposed to do paperwork. They're supposed to kill "the enemy." Killing is a hard task and they need to be hard people to do it.

I hate this pussy country.


I'm sure you do snowflake.

/There's the door.
 
2014-01-07 01:55:12 PM

ReverendJynxed: If you can't handle an asshole screaming in your face, how can you handle bullets whizzing past your head?


Grace under fire and assholes tearing up your honor and dignity with abuse are not comparable challenges.
 
2014-01-07 01:55:30 PM

RKade: They're not supposed to do paperwork. They're supposed to kill "the enemy." Killing is a hard task and they need to be hard people to do it.

I hate this pussy country.


Less and less people are interested in risking their lives to kill brown people who have somehow gotten in the way of some company from the US that will abandon us the first moment it becomes profitable for them to do so. If the army wants to bring more recruits, they're going to have to adapt or implement some form of mandatory service. Or the political establishment of the country could start using the military for national defense instead of as a way of imposing "national interests" on everyone it can. Seriously, who wants to kill people and risk their life so that Lowe's can get ceiling fan parts for 0.4% less than less year?
 
2014-01-07 01:56:05 PM

ReverendJynxed: If you can't handle an asshole screaming in your face, how can you handle bullets whizzing past your head?


How can you handle bullets whizzing past your head if you've learned you can't trust your own officers?
 
2014-01-07 01:56:19 PM

ReverendJynxed: I remember hearing a story from a Ranger buddy about a higher-ranking commander being a complete hard-ass (go figure) and he liked to make a point about Rangers. He dove into the mud in full dress in front of the PX, got up screaming "Rangers lead the WAY!" and proceeded to go shopping covered in mud.

/csb


Sounds like a morale builder; I'd be inclined to admire that guy.  However, had he made a subordinate dive into the mud in class A then go shopping, that's hazing.  Good leaders do the former; toxic leaders do the latter.
 
2014-01-07 01:56:38 PM
"Hang on! This interrogation is difficult, and so I want you to stop. Do I want a cigarette? What are you trying to do, kill me?
Also, I can tell this glass of water isn't filtered."
 
2014-01-07 01:57:47 PM
Reminds me in a way of what life can be like for law or medical school students (and post-grads), based on what I've heard.  "WHAT IS YOUR MAJOR MALFUNCTION?" without the pushups and guns.
 
2014-01-07 01:58:05 PM
Suck it up Nancy.
 
2014-01-07 01:58:11 PM
You get your "respect" after you complete your training. These snowflakes are getting butt-hurt over concerned men and women trying to keep you alive through intense training. They respect you enough to give you the tools to succeed. Why do you hate those trying to help?

The yelling, screaming, trauma, etc. all serve a purpose.

Next up wet-naps, spa coupons, and lunch vouchers at SERE school. Put a plug in it ladies, you can PMS on your own time.
 
2014-01-07 01:58:18 PM
Clearly no one is going to bother to RTFA on this one.

Nonetheless, the cancers they're talking about all need to be fired.
 
hej
2014-01-07 01:58:22 PM

ReverendJynxed: If you can't handle an asshole screaming in your face, how can you handle bullets whizzing past your head?


Counter point;  How does an asshole screaming in your face help you handle bullets wizzing past your head?
 
2014-01-07 01:58:59 PM

Some Coke Drinking Guy: I think a bigger problem is that we have way too many generals and admirals.  In fact, did you know that we now have more Admirals than we have ships?  The Brits have a similar problem as well.  During World War II, we had about one admiral for every twenty some ships, and now we have about two admirals to each vessel.  The army has a similar problem with way too many senior officers, but there isn't anything as dramatic to compare it to.

It's not just the cost of these senior officers, but their large staffs, and the fact that they feel pressure to find a way to justify their existence.


This. With deployments winding down all these senior officers have to find some way to one up each other and it becomes a battle of who can be the most Hoorah which just pisses everyone below them off.

There's also the obvious generational gap between new enlisted and senior officers where you have the same issues that people complain about with politicians. Policies dated from the stone age.
 
2014-01-07 01:59:06 PM

ThurmanMerman: ReverendJynxed: If you can't handle an asshole screaming in your face, how can you handle bullets whizzing past your head?

How can you handle bullets whizzing past your head if you've learned you can't trust your own officers?


They aren't the ones firing in your direction.
 
2014-01-07 01:59:11 PM

EngineerAU: Seriously, who wants to kill people and risk their life so that Lowe's can get ceiling fan parts for 0.4% less than less year?


I'd expect that the future of international combat will be solely on the economic front, with soldiers being hackers who can ruin a country's ability to import/export/process whatever keeps its economy afloat.

Shooting someone is so 1960s.

/Dad flew B-52s
 
2014-01-07 01:59:41 PM

hej: ReverendJynxed: If you can't handle an asshole screaming in your face, how can you handle bullets whizzing past your head?

Counter point;  How does an asshole screaming in your face help you handle bullets wizzing past your head?


Stress tolerance.
 
2014-01-07 02:00:05 PM
So, bosses and not leaders?
 
2014-01-07 02:00:44 PM

RKade: They're not supposed to do paperwork. They're supposed to kill "the enemy." Killing is a hard task and they need to be hard people to do it.

I hate this pussy country.


Clearly, men are not fit for military duty.  They are bullies and they can't handle the stress.
 
2014-01-07 02:01:08 PM

dittybopper: But there are more than 100,000 officers in the Army, from noncommissioned sergeants to generals.

Come on NPR, you should know better.

"Leaders" would have been a better word.


Would one of the more versed Farkers clear this up for me:

I thought sergeants weren't "officers"?

(Dont call sergeants "sir" - they work for a living)
 
2014-01-07 02:01:27 PM

dittybopper: But there are more than 100,000 officers in the Army, from noncommissioned sergeants to generals.

Come on NPR, you should know better.

"Leaders" would have been a better word.


Non-commissioned officers are still officers.  But NPR's journalism has gotten slovenly lately, and they could have worded that better.
 
2014-01-07 02:02:11 PM

SoupJohnB: Reminds me in a way of what life can be like for law or medical school students (and post-grads), based on what I've heard.  "WHAT IS YOUR MAJOR MALFUNCTION?" without the pushups and guns.


Can be and often is. I've seen students cry in the OR when a dickhead attending stated their going into medicine was a waste of time, and that they clearly weren't good enough. No one learns from that.

/Doc
 
2014-01-07 02:02:29 PM

hej: ReverendJynxed: If you can't handle an asshole screaming in your face, how can you handle bullets whizzing past your head?

Counter point;  How does an asshole screaming in your face help you handle bullets wizzing past your head?


It's apparent that lots of the people responding here are under the impression that the suicides are taking place during basic training.

Would it be too difficult to read the article?
 
2014-01-07 02:04:02 PM
NPR rarely gets an article right due to a lack of insight into military culture.  this is an exception: this problem has grown rampant in the last decade of deployments, with far too many little tin gods getting promoted higher and higher.

This isnt about tough leaders who insist on discipline. This is about arrogant pricks who put their ego, themselves, before everything else, including the mission.  Look back on the years of scandals involving senior leaders, and realize thats the few things that didnt get hideen or covered up, and doesnt even cover the many abuses of power in the system that lead to kiss-asses rising above actual talent, petty spiteful acts of revenge influencing every action, and a toxic caustic atmosphere that drives away decent, talented people.
 
2014-01-07 02:04:07 PM

ReverendJynxed: You get your "respect" after you complete your training. These snowflakes are getting butt-hurt over concerned men and women trying to keep you alive through intense training. They respect you enough to give you the tools to succeed. Why do you hate those trying to help?

The yelling, screaming, trauma, etc. all serve a purpose.

Next up wet-naps, spa coupons, and lunch vouchers at SERE school. Put a plug in it ladies, you can PMS on your own time.


This article has ZERO to do with training.

The suicide attempts that prompted the study were of soldiers overseas in a hazardous environment (Iraq/Afghanistan)
 
2014-01-07 02:04:10 PM

Sword and Shield: SoupJohnB: Reminds me in a way of what life can be like for law or medical school students (and post-grads), based on what I've heard.  "WHAT IS YOUR MAJOR MALFUNCTION?" without the pushups and guns.

Can be and often is. I've seen students cry in the OR when a dickhead attending stated their going into medicine was a waste of time, and that they clearly weren't good enough. No one learns from that.

/Doc


What if the attending was correct? What do they call the person that graduates last in med school?
 
2014-01-07 02:04:16 PM

ReverendJynxed: You get your "respect" after you complete your training. These snowflakes are getting butt-hurt over concerned men and women trying to keep you alive through intense training. They respect you enough to give you the tools to succeed. Why do you hate those trying to help?

The yelling, screaming, trauma, etc. all serve a purpose.


And all you've taught the recruit is that they are worthless eaters.  They (DI's w/untreated PTSD & drug abuse problems) don't give a shiat about these "tools" they're supposed to inculcate in recruits.  They're too busy trying to bang the females.

At any rate, the article, which you've obviously read, isn't about training, it's about the petty martinets making life pointlessly miserable for subordinates after training.  One shiatty leader on a bad day can make a subordinate's life hell for a very, very long time.  A shiatty leader with an axe to grind and a soft target can make you want to kill yourself.
 
2014-01-07 02:04:38 PM

ReverendJynxed: If you can't handle an asshole screaming in your face, how can you handle bullets whizzing past your head?


You don't have to.  You can sit in an air-conditioned room in front of a monitor playing "Flight Simulator" all day.  It's called drone warfare and the movie should be out next summer.
 
2014-01-07 02:04:46 PM

Laobaojun: dittybopper: But there are more than 100,000 officers in the Army, from noncommissioned sergeants to generals.

Come on NPR, you should know better.

"Leaders" would have been a better word.

Non-commissioned officers are still officers.  But NPR's journalism has gotten slovenly lately, and they could have worded that better.


It's not terrible, it's just awkward.  It emphasizes the fact that NCOs are also officers.
 
2014-01-07 02:04:49 PM

yakmans_dad: hej: ReverendJynxed: If you can't handle an asshole screaming in your face, how can you handle bullets whizzing past your head?

Counter point;  How does an asshole screaming in your face help you handle bullets wizzing past your head?

It's apparent that lots of the people responding here are under the impression that the suicides are taking place during basic training.

Would it be too difficult to read the article?


This is Fark. You new?
 
2014-01-07 02:04:54 PM
My company lost 1 guy to suicide in Iraq because he lost his NVG's, wouldn't own up to losing then and got our whole company tossed into a pile of shiat. We weren't allowed to have anything more than paper, pens and a bible. We had to march in formation, as a platoon sized element, calling cadence, to chow for every meal. This was Baghdad in 2006, large block formations of troops are an indirect fire dream.
We had to do this until the NVG's that the Soldier claimed were stolen, were turned back. In reality those NVG's rolled off of the top of a humvee due to the carelessness of that Soldier. The men in his platoon made his life such hell, including senior leadership, that he ultimately killed himself in a portapotty. I was the first one to find the body. His blood and brains leaked out from under the door. You could see the hole the rifle round made in the building behind the portapotty.
Toxic leaders exist and will always exist. Some of his leaders could be considered toxic, others were just human upset that they couldn't read a book in their free time. It's hard to discern the difference some times.

/have lost at least 3 more since the war ended
 
2014-01-07 02:06:08 PM

mike_d85: ReverendJynxed: If you can't handle an asshole screaming in your face, how can you handle bullets whizzing past your head?

You don't have to.  You can sit in an air-conditioned room in front of a monitor playing "Flight Simulator" all day.  It's called drone warfare and the movie should be out next summer.


They are whining about that "stress" too in case you forgot.
 
2014-01-07 02:06:14 PM

Kirkenhegelstein: Sounds like a morale builder; I'd be inclined to admire that guy.


Says a person who isn't going to have to mop up the floor after him.
 
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