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(LBC 97.3)   Afghanistan ready to cede crucial Helmand province to Taliban unless someone else comes in and fights their wars for them   (lbc.co.uk) divider line 88
    More: Asinine, Helmand, Taliban, Afghanistan, Afghans, Afghan army, Pashtuns, suicide bomb, Uzbek  
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972 clicks; posted to Politics » on 07 Jan 2014 at 10:33 AM (36 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



88 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-01-07 08:55:43 AM
So I take it our training of their armed services didn't work out as well as we hoped?
 
2014-01-07 08:57:32 AM
We left it in better shape than the British did back in 1842.  Our work here is done.
 
2014-01-07 09:03:03 AM

Marcus Aurelius: We left it in better shape than the British did back in 1842.  Our work here is done.


And probably better than the Russians in the 80s
 
2014-01-07 09:03:29 AM
♪♫♪ Briiing out the Helmands... ♪♫♪
 
2014-01-07 09:06:32 AM

somedude210: Marcus Aurelius: We left it in better shape than the British did back in 1842.  Our work here is done.

And probably better than the Russians in the 80s


And probably better than Alexander in the 330's.
 
2014-01-07 09:12:21 AM
Hey Mr. Taliban, tally me Helmands province.
Budget cutbacks come and me wanna go home.
 
2014-01-07 09:58:04 AM
Wonderful. So do we attack now while we have forces in the area or do we wait for President Clinton to take care of it later?

No, not that Clinton, not that one either.


Chelsea Clinton 2040!
 
2014-01-07 10:07:31 AM
Battle of The Panjwaii part 3, except the blue team is going to pray, spray and flee.
 
2014-01-07 10:18:47 AM
Show of hands for anyone who is surprised?

Anyone?

Anyone at all?
 
2014-01-07 10:24:30 AM
Either we occupy it forever or we let this happen. I don't see a realistic 3rd option.
 
2014-01-07 10:29:08 AM
As the article points out, the Pashtun ARE the Taliban, and the south of the country is Pashto. The Pashtuns in the Afghan army won't fight their own cousins and uncles and ethnic Tajiks and other tribes don't care what happens in the south, they live in the north.

Everybody wants to be left the hell alone to go to war with the people in the next valley or have a 100-year blood feud with the Uzbek clan down the road like they've been doing for 2,500 years. There is no Afghanistan to be defended by an Afghan army, never will be.
 
2014-01-07 10:37:26 AM
Why are we still there?
 
2014-01-07 10:39:38 AM

MFAWG: Why are we still there?


The answer to that depends on who you are.
 
2014-01-07 10:42:08 AM
This war can only be won by the women of that land.

Sad but true.
 
2014-01-07 10:42:17 AM
But it's an important territory. Where else are we to get our Helmand's Mayonnaise! If they cede this everyone loses their tuna salad.
 
2014-01-07 10:43:56 AM

wildcardjack: But it's an important territory. Where else are we to get our Helmand's Mayonnaise! If they cede this everyone loses their tuna salad.


You could always use Miracle Whip.
 
2014-01-07 10:45:26 AM

ShawnDoc: Either we occupy it forever or we let this happen. I don't see a realistic 3rd option.


Genocide. Also we can just periodically ignore their sovereignty and bomb them to limit their capabilities.
 
2014-01-07 10:46:23 AM
They mayo be able to hold it if they try harder...
 
2014-01-07 10:47:01 AM
Time to quote Eric Cartman.

"Screw you guys. I'm going home."
 
2014-01-07 10:47:41 AM
There used to be an Afghan restaurant in Chicago called The Helmand, at Halsted & Belmont. Their broiled pumpkin appetizer with garlic-mint yogurt sauce was incredible.
 
2014-01-07 10:48:12 AM
It's easy to say we shouldn't have stuck our dick in crazy, but that country needed a good farking. We just have to saw our arm off to get out.
 
2014-01-07 10:48:21 AM
Alright. I propose that EVERYBODY who was responsible for the Afghanistan war, from its creation to voting for it to sending the first orders to launch, go back and finish it up. It's your dishwashing liquid, you soak in it.
 
2014-01-07 10:48:34 AM
Let the Taliban occupy it, drop a missile on their government headquarters every couple years
 
2014-01-07 10:49:49 AM
Lost cause, this IS a repeat.
 
2014-01-07 10:54:23 AM
If memory serves, this is when a conservative mentions the need for a glass parking lot.*


*part of the sound military policy republicans have from the other thread
 
2014-01-07 10:55:10 AM

Lost Thought 00: Let the Taliban occupy it, drop a missile on their government headquarters every couple years


You jest, and yet that's the actual solution.
Policing isn't ever going to work.  The threat of instant, lethal, out of proportion response is all that works.
 
2014-01-07 10:55:45 AM

Obama's Reptiloid Master: wildcardjack: But it's an important territory. Where else are we to get our Helmand's Mayonnaise! If they cede this everyone loses their tuna salad.

You could always use Miracle Whip.


You sound like a commie...NO ONE uses Miracle Whip for tuna salad!
 
2014-01-07 10:56:39 AM
So, in other words, what every friggin liberal said would happen if we invaded and occupied Afghanistan, but were shouted down for being traitors.
 
2014-01-07 10:57:07 AM

ds615: Lost Thought 00: Let the Taliban occupy it, drop a missile on their government headquarters every couple years

You jest, and yet that's the actual solution.
Policing isn't ever going to work.  The threat of instant, lethal, out of proportion response is all that works.


Make war so terrible, the cost of opposition so high in blood and flesh, that no one dare oppose you.
 
2014-01-07 10:59:14 AM
For anyone interested there's a great documentary on what the status of the Afghan army/police and the futility of our training of them on the Vice YouTube channel. I'd post a link but I'm on my phone. I think the title is "This is winning?" or something close to that.
 
2014-01-07 11:01:51 AM
Biden is all "I told you so, breh"
 
2014-01-07 11:03:50 AM
So.
It was all a waste of time, money, blood, and lives.

Check.
Another US Foreign Policy win.
 
2014-01-07 11:05:48 AM

Obama's Reptiloid Master: You could always use Miracle Whip.


And you can go straight to hell.
 
2014-01-07 11:08:36 AM
This does seem like an intractible situation until either we have such an incredible strongman that his sheer gravitational (in the political sense) pull holds everything together, or we accept an Afghanistan that is broken into 10+ reigons with the most barebones of central authorities.

the Middle East in the last 170 has been about the worst attempt at political engineering since... no actually it's pretty much tied with Africa in the exact same timespan


// Something something old Western Colonial powers
 
2014-01-07 11:08:43 AM

ShawnDoc: Either we occupy it forever or we let this happen. I don't see a realistic 3rd option.


Nuke it until it makes Chernobyl look like Yellowstone Park.
 
2014-01-07 11:09:33 AM

Obama's Reptiloid Master: wildcardjack: But it's an important territory. Where else are we to get our Helmand's Mayonnaise! If they cede this everyone loses their tuna salad.

You could always use Miracle Whip.


*pictureofmanshoutinginfidel.png*
 
2014-01-07 11:16:42 AM

BlueDWarrior: or we accept an Afghanistan that is broken into 10+ reigons with the most barebones of central authorities.


make it into states! The taliban controlled areas can be the redstates.
 
2014-01-07 11:20:49 AM

2wolves: ShawnDoc: Either we occupy it forever or we let this happen. I don't see a realistic 3rd option.

Nuke it until it makes Chernobyl look like Yellowstone Park.


Yea, that's the ticket, nuke em back to the stone age. They will be reverted back to the pre-industrial age and they will live in huts and caves.

oh wait......
 
2014-01-07 11:25:44 AM
Miracle Whip has miracle right there in the name! You know who else was a miracle? The baby Jesus.

Why do you hate Jesus?
 
2014-01-07 11:27:12 AM
I think I know a country that might be interested in fighting their wars for them. Seems like this country is always involving itself in someone else's crisis for democracy or freedom or some other vague ideal that ensures there is never a clear objective or parameters for the end of involvement.

/spoiler....it's the US
 
2014-01-07 11:29:47 AM
i236.photobucket.com
 
2014-01-07 11:30:24 AM

Superjew: This war can only be won by the women of that land.


What the hell does that even mean?
 
2014-01-07 11:33:28 AM

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Superjew: This war can only be won by the women of that land.

What the hell does that even mean?


It means women make the food and have the pussy. It's a notion that works in the civilised world where sex is fun, but not in a culture with more rape than a zombie lincoln cloning lab.
 
2014-01-07 11:33:54 AM
Between loosing Fallujah and this, I wonder what we fought for. I never cared much before because I also had the nagging sense that it was complete BS, but at the time it was okay because we'd win the battles and we'd help some people and figured eventually they'd get the idea do it themselves without our help. Training IP's and the Afghan Army because we had to. We didn't want to fight there forever. Even as we knew that the most rural, podunk. American police department and untrained, uncaring Air Force reserve unit was beyond anything those people could muster in terms of competence and willingness to fight and defend what's theirs. A poster above pointed out in Afghanistan, it's too tribal and no central authority will ever convince those people to fight their cousins and brothers. That sounds true to me. But with the Iraqi Police and Army, I thought we had a chance to create a stable, functioning police department and army. I guess I was wrong.
There was always the feeling that when overlooking CP564 we weren't doing it for the Iraqi's on their way to work or to visit their families, we doing it strictly for each other. But then we'd pull the dead bodies of people tortured for being Shia when they should have been Sunni and vice versa. Or talking to our interpreter and he would tell us about the friends and family he had lost and that's why he was helping, because he wanted stability and someone to protect them when we left, it would remind us that it wasn't just us we were fighting for, but these people.
It's so cliche but I guess I'll never have an answer to whether, Jenkins, or Pugh, or Bucklin were worth it or whether Alvo's legs were worth it. I guess we'll just have to wait and see. But it doesn't look good.
 
2014-01-07 11:35:32 AM

Lord_Baull: If memory serves, this is when a conservative mentions the need for a glass parking lot.*


*part of the sound military policy republicans have from the other thread


*ONLY* if they do something stupid like 9/11 again.  Or protect those who do.

Other than that, screw 'em.  They want to keep fighting each other?  Fine by me.  Maybe we could find a way to profit from it.
 
2014-01-07 11:35:36 AM
$4 trillion dollars spent, thousands of deaths and Benghazi is the scandal?
 
2014-01-07 11:35:54 AM

Obama's Reptiloid Master: wildcardjack: But it's an important territory. Where else are we to get our Helmand's Mayonnaise! If they cede this everyone loses their tuna salad.

You could always use Miracle Whip.



And the Afghans make it with real whips!
 
2014-01-07 11:36:06 AM

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Superjew: This war can only be won by the women of that land.

What the hell does that even mean?


It's an empowerment slogan by people who have never heard Pashtun male slogans like "A woman is between the stove and the pigs" and "All women are disgusting, even your own mother." In Pashtunwali, women are seen as a labour-saver and a baby-maker and yeah, boys are where it's at.
 
2014-01-07 11:36:50 AM

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Superjew: This war can only be won by the women of that land.

What the hell does that even mean?



I don't care. It makes me feel good.
 
2014-01-07 11:37:12 AM

Snowrise: As the article points out, the Pashtun ARE the Taliban, and the south of the country is Pashto. The Pashtuns in the Afghan army won't fight their own cousins and uncles and ethnic Tajiks and other tribes don't care what happens in the south, they live in the north.

Everybody wants to be left the hell alone to go to war with the people in the next valley or have a 100-year blood feud with the Uzbek clan down the road like they've been doing for 2,500 years. There is no Afghanistan to be defended by an Afghan army, never will be.


This.  Exactly.  The only thing that unifies them by us being there is that we become their common enemy.

Get the fark out, let them do whatever the hell they're going to do.
 
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