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(Patheos)   Seminary professor announces that he will "live like an atheist" for a year as an experiment. Step 1: Facing religious bigotry as your seminary fires you less than a week into the experiment   (patheos.com ) divider line
    More: Asinine, religious bigotry, seminary, Adventist Church, Hemant Mehta, experiments  
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13665 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Jan 2014 at 2:08 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



346 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2014-01-06 02:10:57 PM  
I think he'll find it enlightening.
 
2014-01-06 02:11:22 PM  
He's gonna pop!
 
2014-01-06 02:11:38 PM  
What.... what even..... the hell did I just read? Really..... WTF is this??
 
2014-01-06 02:12:04 PM  
LOL

So very Christ-like.

Here's some trivia for you: Jesus hated anyone that wasn't a Christian.
 
2014-01-06 02:12:21 PM  
It's not religious bigotry when a seminary fires you as a Pastor because of your religious beliefs.
 
2014-01-06 02:13:09 PM  
Not teaching at a seminary sounds like part of living like an atheist.
 
2014-01-06 02:14:05 PM  
I'm guessing this experience of being fired will have its own chapter.
 
2014-01-06 02:14:15 PM  
How does one live like an atheist? Stop praying and going to church?
 
2014-01-06 02:14:39 PM  
How does one "live like an atheist"?  Most Christians don't go to church, don't talk about Jesus much, and pretty much ignore Christ's teaching.
 
2014-01-06 02:15:19 PM  
Yes, not doing my job is...an EXPERIMENT...to prove how important my job is. That's it.  See you in 6 months.
 
2014-01-06 02:15:21 PM  
global3.memecdn.com
 
2014-01-06 02:15:58 PM  

EvilEgg: How does one "live like an atheist"?  Most Christians don't go to church, don't talk about Jesus much, and pretty much ignore Christ's teaching.


I thought about it, and I decided he could read the Bible, that's one thing many atheists do that Christians don't.
 
2014-01-06 02:17:34 PM  
Sky Cake!

"That sh&t [religion] was going on all over the planet. They would tell them about sky cookies, or sky pie, or sky baklava. And as each of these civilizations grew, they built ships; they'd go visit each other, and the one guy would walk off the boat and go,'Hey, did you hear the good news about the sky baklava?' and the first guy went,'It's CAKE, motherf%&ker! You're dead!"
 -God (Patton Oswalt)
 
2014-01-06 02:18:01 PM  

TheOnion: How does one live like an atheist? Stop praying and going to church?


Stay home on sunday (or Saturday, since he's a Seventh Day guy), watch football, protest another public nativity scene when the Christians want to play "We're the best religion and we're going to prove it by displays like this."
 
2014-01-06 02:18:46 PM  

TheOnion: How does one live like an atheist? Stop praying and going to church?


You also have to loudly inform everyone within hearing range that you are an atheist, and sue anyone who puts up any kind of religious display.

Or so I've been told.
 
2014-01-06 02:19:12 PM  
ftfa:

I don't think you can even pretend to be an atheist simply by reading books by atheist authors and attending atheist gatherings when your religious beliefs are still somewhere in the back of your mind - but I still applauded the fact that he was exploring atheism and wanted to learn more about it.

Who does this shiat?  Atheism is simply the non-belief in the supernatural, what is there to discuss? Sounds like a lame circle-jerk.

I think the experiment is a fail because these people are not representative of the vast majority of atheists.
 
2014-01-06 02:20:14 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: LOL

So very Christ-like.

Here's some trivia for you: Jesus hated anyone that wasn't a Christian.


He doesn't hate them. He loves them. Just because he sends them into a lake of fire for eternity doesn't mean he hates them.
 
2014-01-06 02:20:24 PM  

Captain Darling: Not teaching at a seminary sounds like part of living like an atheist.


Yep.  Also, how exactly does one live as an atheist?  I don't go to atheist lectures or clubs, apparently I'm doing it wrong?
 
2014-01-06 02:20:41 PM  
elitemrp.net
 
2014-01-06 02:21:11 PM  

TheOnion: How does one live like an atheist? Stop praying and going to church?



Dear God I don't believe in...
*wink wink*
Please DON'T watch over me or my family...
*wink wink*
Amen

Just like a real atheist does!
 
2014-01-06 02:21:18 PM  
But the atheists will find out he's not really one of them when he refuses to sacrifice the Christian baby on the altar of Science!
What will he do then?
 
2014-01-06 02:22:09 PM  
Sounds like they're helping him get into character.
 
2014-01-06 02:22:28 PM  
You're either on the bus or your not. I got off on an early stop.
 
2014-01-06 02:23:17 PM  

manbart: ftfa:

I don't think you can even pretend to be an atheist simply by reading books by atheist authors and attending atheist gatherings when your religious beliefs are still somewhere in the back of your mind - but I still applauded the fact that he was exploring atheism and wanted to learn more about it.

Who does this shiat?  Atheism is simply the non-belief in the supernatural, what is there to discuss? Sounds like a lame circle-jerk.

I think the experiment is a fail because these people are not representative of the vast majority of atheists.


"Live like an athiest straw man we can make fun of"

Really, this is worse than those "live like a homeless/poor person" articles. And that is setting the bar low.
 
2014-01-06 02:23:26 PM  
Yeah, that certainly won't color his perceptions any.

Personally, I don't know how my old Bible professor kept his job at my college since he would say openly "Alcohol ain't going to send you to hell."
 
2014-01-06 02:23:49 PM  
Right on par. You're living the dream!
 
2014-01-06 02:24:55 PM  

Captain Darling: Not teaching at a seminary sounds like part of living like an atheist.


Ding Ding Ding

If he really wanted to "live as an atheist", and not just, you know, research it like a non-attention-whoring person would do then NOT being employed by a religious organization should be an expected part of that "living as" arrangement.  Are we supposed to feel sympathy for him?
 
2014-01-06 02:24:57 PM  
EvilEgg: How does one "live like an atheist"?

Eating newborn babies is a start.
 
2014-01-06 02:26:33 PM  

TheOnion: How does one live like an atheist? Stop praying and going to church?


In the previous article, he notes he will stop attending church, cease praying, cease praising or otherwise referring to a deity as the cause of events, not read the Bible, read numerous texts from atheistic philosophies and atheist-specific philosophers, attend atheist gatherings, and attempt to speak with as many atheists as possible during this time. While there is an initial smattering of 'doing-it-wrong', he was questioning his beliefs before this process, and any attempt to live as something else as a trial means a lack of acceptance of the beliefs of this something else, or lack of beliefs in this circumstance. As far as anyone may be said to, this is as solid an attempt to live as an atheist as is possible, and he seems honest about his want to explore his own faith, especially the wavering aspect, and atheism.

This is what I remember doing in my early teens, once I found being an atheist was an option and my disenchantment with Christianity did not mean I had to replace with Islam, Buddhism, etc..
 
2014-01-06 02:27:42 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Captain Darling: Not teaching at a seminary sounds like part of living like an atheist.

Yep.  Also, how exactly does one live as an atheist?  I don't go to atheist lectures or clubs, apparently I'm doing it wrong?


Your absence from the meetings has been noted, believe me.
 
2014-01-06 02:28:08 PM  
He's going to try talking to people nice even though they're not of his race, stop telling them what to think, let them decide for themselves. Wait....that reminds me of someone's teachings.
 
2014-01-06 02:28:36 PM  

jigger: HotWingConspiracy: LOL

So very Christ-like.

Here's some trivia for you: Jesus hated anyone that wasn't a Christian.

He doesn't hate them. He loves them. Just because he sends them into a lake of fire for eternity doesn't mean he hates them.


Technically, Christians believe that Jesus tries to get people to go to heaven but they choose the lake of eternal fire.
 
2014-01-06 02:29:16 PM  

A Cave Geek: [global3.memecdn.com image 850x890]


media.tumblr.com

I bet that goes over great with all the wannabe psdeudo-intellectual libertarians sisterfarkers on your facebook wall doesn't it.

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."

Neil deGrasse Tyson -
 
2014-01-06 02:31:27 PM  

Vangor: This is what I remember doing in my early teens, once I found being an atheist was an option and my disenchantment with Christianity did not mean I had to replace with Islam, Buddhism, etc..


you know what I did in my early twenties?  Nothing, I just kind of stopped thinking about religion entirely.  It just didn't really come up.  I stopped going to church after moving out of my parents house.  I just plain don't think about why I don't believe.  I don't have to be defensive enough about it to read on it or protest some church.

I'm more of the meh thinking on religion.
 
2014-01-06 02:31:43 PM  
Ftfa: Just days after he made his announcement, they fired him until he rededicates himself to Jesus

I'm not seeing a problem here. He should just tell them that he dropped the experiment and keep going in secret. That way he'll get his job back, he gets to experience the need to keep his opinions secret for fear of persecution and he gets to examine if atheists really are untrustworthy scumbags who would lie because it is easier than telling the truth.
 
2014-01-06 02:32:57 PM  
So he's staying out of foxholes for the next year?  Sounds like a pretty sane thing to do.
 
2014-01-06 02:33:56 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: I don't go to atheist lectures or clubs, apparently I'm doing it wrong?


Be mindful, his world-view is one of having been a pastor and professor in what is a rather structured denomination of Protestantism. For one to live as a member of any faith would be to steep themselves in the ritual and practices and representations of belief. Without solid ritual and practices and belief, this is what he has chosen.
 
2014-01-06 02:34:03 PM  
Given that theology is "is the systematic and study of the concepts of God and the nature of religious truths" and that atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of those concepts and beliefs, I can understand him being let go from a Theological Seminary. His stance is akin to going to basketball camp and rejecting the concept of all sports yet expecting to be able to still play the game and get paid to do it.
 
2014-01-06 02:34:31 PM  
I'm having a hard time sympathizing with this guy... seems like he's just an AW.

WTF does it even mean to "live like an atheist"? Is he really planning to attend our Tuesday Night Potluck and Abortion Dinners?

And the fact that he says that it's only for a year pretty much eliminates the possibility that he's going into his little experiment with anything resembling an open mind.
 
2014-01-06 02:34:55 PM  

A Cave Geek: [global3.memecdn.com image 850x890]


Reverse CDP does not work.
/Mainly because the creationist demotivational does not, in any way, resemble a parodic take on evolution, biology, or astrophysics.
//Science, martherfarker. It works.
 
2014-01-06 02:35:37 PM  

meanmutton: jigger: HotWingConspiracy: LOL

So very Christ-like.

Here's some trivia for you: Jesus hated anyone that wasn't a Christian.

He doesn't hate them. He loves them. Just because he sends them into a lake of fire for eternity doesn't mean he hates them.

Technically, Christians believe that Jesus tries to get people to go to heaven but they choose the lake of eternal fire.


So Jesus/God is impotent?  He has no power to stop a person from going to hell? Why pray to him if he's impotent?
 
2014-01-06 02:35:44 PM  

DerAppie: Ftfa: Just days after he made his announcement, they fired him until he rededicates himself to Jesus

I'm not seeing a problem here. He should just tell them that he dropped the experiment and keep going in secret. That way he'll get his job back, he gets to experience the need to keep his opinions secret for fear of persecution and he gets to examine if atheists really are untrustworthy scumbags who would lie because it is easier than telling the truth.


yeah, I'm of the opinion that you don't get to skip out on a huge aspect of your job as an "experiment" and expect to remain employed.
 
2014-01-06 02:36:06 PM  
For f*ck sake.  You want to live like an atheist?  Then continue what you are doing.  Plenty of worshipful people have come to the inner conclusion that god is not real, but change absolutely nothing.  I don't believe in God, but that doesn't stop me from cooking up a hell of a Seder dinner with my Mom and fasting on Yom Kippur.  I don't do it because I believe that God will have me die by fire, or drowning or wild beast.  But rather, I love my family, and the traditions and the food.  I think there is value in traditions that bind us to generations past.  Some are bad or dangerous and should be thrown away, but some are lovely.

The mark of a good religious experience is that you still find it enjoyable after you become an atheist.
 
2014-01-06 02:36:15 PM  
Next up, he can pretend to be gay... the same good Christians who fired him and turned him on to the street would happily beat the crap out of him on that same street... because that's how Jesus would want it.
 
2014-01-06 02:38:04 PM  

ArgusRun: For f*ck sake.  You want to live like an atheist?  Then continue what you are doing.  Plenty of worshipful people have come to the inner conclusion that god is not real, but change absolutely nothing.  I don't believe in God, but that doesn't stop me from cooking up a hell of a Seder dinner with my Mom and fasting on Yom Kippur.  I don't do it because I believe that God will have me die by fire, or drowning or wild beast.  But rather, I love my family, and the traditions and the food.  I think there is value in traditions that bind us to generations past.  Some are bad or dangerous and should be thrown away, but some are lovely.

The mark of a good religious experience is that you still find it enjoyable after you become an atheist.


As a Catholic, the mark of a good religious experience is that you know you should be ashamed of yourself if you enjoyed it, as all enjoyable things are sinful.
 
2014-01-06 02:38:54 PM  
Did anybody posit that the university may have 'fired' him as part of the experiment?
 
2014-01-06 02:39:19 PM  
Maybe he's doing this in reverse:

img.timeinc.net
 
2014-01-06 02:39:47 PM  
The internet has made me "hard", right now I think this guy is just being a troll.
 
2014-01-06 02:40:01 PM  
Ummm - this is crap....the guy's entire career is based around teaching and advising in religious matters.  Now he's spending a year 'as an atheist' - whatever that means.  To most people, that means he doesn't believe in God.  And that is contradictory to his career.

I'm a software developer.  If I decide to spend a year 'Not using Technology' I'd expect to be fired too.
 
2014-01-06 02:40:05 PM  

Vangor: Satanic_Hamster: I don't go to atheist lectures or clubs, apparently I'm doing it wrong?

Be mindful, his world-view is one of having been a pastor and professor in what is a rather structured denomination of Protestantism. For one to live as a member of any faith would be to steep themselves in the ritual and practices and representations of belief. Without solid ritual and practices and belief, this is what he has chosen.


Every night, I put a few cd's into the turn table, open a beer, and play Counter Strike.  Does that count?
 
2014-01-06 02:40:53 PM  
Just to be clear, you can (pretend to) be an atheist and be employed by a religious organization. That's not really a big deal.  What is a big deal is (pretending to) be an atheist and be employed by a religious organization to teach religion.

If you're in accounting or IT at a religious institution and someone says, "Do you believe in God?" your answer has no bearing on your ability to do your job.  If you're a religion teacher and a student asks what you think of the material you're teaching and you're answer is, "It's a nice story with lessons we can learn but a story none-the-less" then you've got some issues that arise.

That said, the school seems pretty but-hurt over this and they reasons they give are not religious in nature (they even praise it's merits). They're simply worried about funding. That's something they need to worry about for sure but it just seems wrong to do so.
 
2014-01-06 02:40:56 PM  

EvilEgg: How does one "live like an atheist"?  Most Christians don't go to church, don't talk about Jesus much, and pretty much ignore Christ's teaching.


Not necessarily. Christ (or people writing decades after his death allegedly quoting him) said some pretty interesting stuff, as did many of his Classical contemporaries. But he also said some fairly inflammatory things that would tend to tick off the establishment Jews and the Romans of his time.

If you read Christ like you read Plato, or Marcus Aurelius, or Plotinus or even the emperor Julian, it's all good. Currently applicable life lessons may be drawn from "the collected sayings of" and can be used as part of a functional moral compass by any old atheist.

It's when you start with the actual religious edifice built on these sayings, which many people (not only non-religious people) find pretty much diametrically opposed to the intent of the words of the teacher who (again, allegedly and almost certainly heavily redacted) said them, that it all becomes problematic.

Christ the wisdom teacher is fine, if a little "local". Christ the magical fairy with the complicated god/man origin story and the church full of heretic-smiting, gold-loving kiddie fiddlers? Not so much.
 
2014-01-06 02:41:31 PM  
"Hey guys, I need more media attention for my thingy. Could you fire me for a year? K THX BYE!"

I applaud their marketing acumen. His "reaffirmation" to God next year should pull big ratings!
 
2014-01-06 02:41:32 PM  
how would that work? not go to church , not say prayers , sleep in on Sunday , eat meat on Fridays. He might enjoy himself.
 
2014-01-06 02:41:37 PM  
You know, he could have done all his reading and research on atheism without being an AW about it.
 
2014-01-06 02:41:51 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Captain Darling: Not teaching at a seminary sounds like part of living like an atheist.

Yep.  Also, how exactly does one live as an atheist?  I don't go to atheist lectures or clubs, apparently I'm doing it wrong?


We don't even have a secret handshake. :(
 
2014-01-06 02:42:35 PM  
What does "living like an atheist" even mean aside from having a lot more spare time and far less guilt?
 
2014-01-06 02:42:49 PM  

JusticeandIndependence: Nothing, I just kind of stopped thinking about religion entirely.  It just didn't really come up.  I stopped going to church after moving out of my parents house.  I just plain don't think about why I don't believe.  I don't have to be defensive enough about it to read on it or protest some church.


Which is reasonable. As is having an interest in matters of religion for cultural circumstances or as belief in finding answers to major questions. As is having an interest in matters of philosophy and ethics, which is what tend to be 'atheist texts'. But when you do not know what atheism is or this is a choice, sometimes the more aggressive antitheistic texts and such are needed to frame.
 
2014-01-06 02:42:55 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Captain Darling: Not teaching at a seminary sounds like part of living like an atheist.

Yep.  Also, how exactly does one live as an atheist?  I don't go to atheist lectures or clubs, apparently I'm doing it wrong?


First, purchase a dog that doesn't bark in the night?
Second, purchase two loaves and five fishes. Serve about a dozen.
Third, relax and enjoy life. It's the only one you've got.
 
2014-01-06 02:43:26 PM  
"A lot of atheists remain in the closet precisely because they're afraid of the ramifications of coming out."

Yes, and a lot of Christians hide their faith for the same reason.  Sorry if I am not surprised that humans across the board tend to be biased against people who are different than them.
 
2014-01-06 02:43:27 PM  

manbart: ftfa:

I don't think you can even pretend to be an atheist simply by reading books by atheist authors and attending atheist gatherings when your religious beliefs are still somewhere in the back of your mind - but I still applauded the fact that he was exploring atheism and wanted to learn more about it.

Who does this shiat?  Atheism is simply the non-belief in the supernatural, what is there to discuss? Sounds like a lame circle-jerk.

I think the experiment is a fail because these people are not representative of the vast majority of atheists.


This is why I've started using the term apatheist. Too many people hear atheist and think if the minority who are vocal about the non-existence of god. There's agnostic, but even then people try to pull you in to some kind of debate because you acknowledge there COULD be something given the right evidence.

Theism just has no relevance to my perspective on life, and I don't care enough to discuss the merits until it infringes on my life.

/care enough to bring up the distinctions though
 
2014-01-06 02:43:54 PM  
He should hook up with that guy who wrote for Gun's and Ammo for like 30 years as well as hosted a gun show on the Outdoor network was fired from both jobs because he said that the idea of gun-control should be entertained.
 
2014-01-06 02:44:43 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Every night, I put a few cd's into the turn table, open a beer, and play Counter Strike.  Does that count?


You still have CDs? And yeah.
 
2014-01-06 02:45:19 PM  

The Southern Dandy: meanmutton: jigger: HotWingConspiracy: LOL

So very Christ-like.

Here's some trivia for you: Jesus hated anyone that wasn't a Christian.

He doesn't hate them. He loves them. Just because he sends them into a lake of fire for eternity doesn't mean he hates them.

Technically, Christians believe that Jesus tries to get people to go to heaven but they choose the lake of eternal fire.

So Jesus/God is impotent?  He has no power to stop a person from going to hell? Why pray to him if he's impotent?


You're like that guy who has questions at the end of the Amway meeting, aren't you?

/why does god need a starship?
//best part of that steamin' load.
 
2014-01-06 02:46:12 PM  

drxym: What does "living like an atheist" even mean aside from having a lot more spare time and far less guilt?


Here's a good way to envision what it's like to live like an atheist.

Imagine living like a person that doesn't believe Zeus is real.
 
2014-01-06 02:46:29 PM  

Valiente: EvilEgg: How does one "live like an atheist"?  Most Christians don't go to church, don't talk about Jesus much, and pretty much ignore Christ's teaching.

Not necessarily. Christ (or people writing decades after his death allegedly quoting him) said some pretty interesting stuff, as did many of his Classical contemporaries. But he also said some fairly inflammatory things that would tend to tick off the establishment Jews and the Romans of his time.

If you read Christ like you read Plato, or Marcus Aurelius, or Plotinus or even the emperor Julian, it's all good. Currently applicable life lessons may be drawn from "the collected sayings of" and can be used as part of a functional moral compass by any old atheist.

It's when you start with the actual religious edifice built on these sayings, which many people (not only non-religious people) find pretty much diametrically opposed to the intent of the words of the teacher who (again, allegedly and almost certainly heavily redacted) said them, that it all becomes problematic.

Christ the wisdom teacher is fine, if a little "local". Christ the magical fairy with the complicated god/man origin story and the church full of heretic-smiting, gold-loving kiddie fiddlers? Not so much.


My favorite is still Jesus with the moneylenders.  Mainly because Jesus hated capitalism.   Free market put those thieves in that temple, damn it!
 
2014-01-06 02:46:37 PM  

meanmutton: It's not religious bigotry when a seminary fires you as a Pastor because of your religious beliefs.


The problem with that is that his beliefs have not changed. He never said he no longer believes in God, just that he will try to "live like an atheist" for a year.

By the way, how does this man think atheists live? The atheists I know do not seem to have a different way of living their life other than the fact that they do not go to church. This makes them, in behavior at least, exactly like most of the Christians I knew.
 
2014-01-06 02:46:59 PM  
Step Two: Find something to stick it in then repeat.
 
2014-01-06 02:47:26 PM  

ggecko: The internet has made me "hard", right now I think this guy is just being a troll.


Well if it lasts for more than four hours.......
 
2014-01-06 02:47:46 PM  
I hope he thanks God for the roughly $9,000 in donations he received from people on the internet ............
 
2014-01-06 02:47:55 PM  

StopDaddy: "Hey guys, I need more media attention for my thingy. Could you fire me for a year? K THX BYE!"

I applaud their marketing acumen. His "reaffirmation" to God next year should pull big ratings!


Thank you
 
2014-01-06 02:49:16 PM  

Itstoearly: "A lot of atheists remain in the closet precisely because they're afraid of the ramifications of coming out."

Yes, and a lot of Christians hide their faith for the same reason.  Sorry if I am not surprised that humans across the board tend to be biased against people who are different than them.


It's not quite as bad as one imagines.  I came out as an atheist in circumstances one would usually choose not to.  You deal with shiat for a while (usually very bad shiat from family, if you were in my boat), then people realize that they never actually cared what you believed to begin with, because it had very little to do with whom they were committing adultery or screwing over.

On the plus side, some of the family members who went absolutely bananas on me are now atheists themselves.  Not necessarily for reasons I like (the whole "Why would God let someone die so horribly?!" theodicy bit really isn't strong reasoning, IMO), but hey, it works.
 
2014-01-06 02:49:31 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: LOL

So very Christ-like.

Here's some trivia for you: Jesus hated anyone that wasn't a Christian.


Is this a troll?  The number of practicing Christians while Jesus was alive varies between 0 and 12ish.
 
Ant
2014-01-06 02:50:24 PM  
How the hell do you live like an atheist? Do you just sleep in on Sunday?

/atheist
 
2014-01-06 02:51:04 PM  

The Southern Dandy: drxym: What does "living like an atheist" even mean aside from having a lot more spare time and far less guilt?

Here's a good way to envision what it's like to live like an atheist.

Imagine living like a person that doesn't believe Zeus is real.


Thats an amazingly concise way of putting it.  You.... I like you.
 
2014-01-06 02:51:07 PM  
The "live like an atheist" thing bugs me too.  I don't research atheism, I don't prosletyze and I don't go to meetings.  I *did* read the bible which, as someone pointed out upthread, a fair number Christians probably don't (other than the cherry-picked passages someone told them to read).
 
2014-01-06 02:51:32 PM  

firefly212: Next up, he can pretend to be gay


He's a fundamentalist preacher, pretending to be straight is more likely to be part of his skill set.
 
2014-01-06 02:51:33 PM  

EvilEgg: EvilEgg: How does one "live like an atheist"?  Most Christians don't go to church, don't talk about Jesus much, and pretty much ignore Christ's teaching.

I thought about it, and I decided he could read the Bible, that's one thing many atheists do that Christians don't.


I've found that atheists are generally more willing to discuss theology logically than religious folks. Lots of religious folks get their panties in a twist when you ask uncomfortable questions. Very rarely do you find one that will discuss a touchy subject without condemning you.

The above is my experience. Not my intention to paint with a broad brush.

I had one girl condemn me to Hell in the beginning of a rather volatile conversation about televangelists and hypocrisy. By the end, she told me that "Jesus had forgiven me."

/shakes head
 
2014-01-06 02:51:38 PM  

TheOnion: How does one live like an atheist? Stop praying and going to church?


I think his employers were worried that he was going to open a baby and feast on the goo inside.  Like a true atheist does.
 
2014-01-06 02:51:40 PM  

DontMakeMeComeBackThere: Captain Darling: Not teaching at a seminary sounds like part of living like an atheist.

Ding Ding Ding

If he really wanted to "live as an atheist", and not just, you know, research it like a non-attention-whoring person would do then NOT being employed by a religious organization should be an expected part of that "living as" arrangement.  Are we supposed to feel sympathy for him?


Why would you have to be part of the organization's religion to be employed by a religious organization?  If you are teaching people about the Bible as a religious text, why would it be required that you think it is?  Not being snarky, but I would imagine lots of people who work in many faith-based organizations are not of that faith.  Aren't most hospitals faith based for the advantageous tax and zoning rules?
 
2014-01-06 02:52:02 PM  

DeaH: The problem with that is that his beliefs have not changed. He never said he no longer believes in God, just that he will try to "live like an atheist" for a year.


I know Fark is not in the habit of reading articles, least of all a reference to a previous article which is itself a reference to another article, but I wanted to note this is wrong; his beliefs have changed and are changing:

In short, I will do whatever I can to enter the world of atheism and live, for a year, as an atheist. It's important to make the distinction that I am not an atheist. At least not yet. I am not sure what I am. That's part of what this year is about.
 
2014-01-06 02:52:04 PM  
I'll try to explain what "living like an atheist" means since nobody seems to get it. Imagine your head was literally inserted into your anus. This was the normal way a large majority of the planet lived. Then imagine one day, you pulled your head out of your anus and got a chance to see reality, instead of the walls of your anal cavity. That's what "living like an atheist" means, pulling your head out of your ass. It means not being ignorant to the reality around you in the non existent chance a god will punish or reward you after you die. It means having the self will to say, humans don't know everything and we never will,but I'm okay with that. And that doesn't mean we should stop learning just because we can't know everything. The opposite, we should always be chasing the elusive knowledge.
Or just, you know, you hairless apes can keep killing each other over imagined slights to imagined deities until you don't exist anymore and the universe can collectively breathe a sigh of relief.
 
2014-01-06 02:52:24 PM  

ampoliros: Just to be clear, you can (pretend to) be an atheist and be employed by a religious organization. That's not really a big deal.  What is a big deal is (pretending to) be an atheist and be employed by a religious organization to teach religion.

If you're in accounting or IT at a religious institution and someone says, "Do you believe in God?" your answer has no bearing on your ability to do your job.  If you're a religion teacher and a student asks what you think of the material you're teaching and you're answer is, "It's a nice story with lessons we can learn but a story none-the-less" then you've got some issues that arise.

That said, the school seems pretty but-hurt over this and they reasons they give are not religious in nature (they even praise it's merits). They're simply worried about funding. That's something they need to worry about for sure but it just seems wrong to do so.


This guy seems to be doing okay with not believing in the religion he teaches.  However, he is at a state school and not a religious one, but it is possible to be an expert in a religion and not practice that religion.
 
2014-01-06 02:52:37 PM  

Ant: How the hell do you live like an atheist? Do you just sleep in on Sunday?

/atheist


I believe the general answer to your question is this:

The only objective difference between atheists and Christians is that atheists tend to be more ideologically independent, are better educated, slightly wealthier, have higher rates of charitable giving, and usually score higher on empathy tests.

So, I guess the answer is that he'd go to school, learn to reason better, get a better job, care more about the people around him, and give back to society.

Cool part was I didn't have to say anything about Church or religion in there.
 
2014-01-06 02:53:09 PM  
Looking to do anything for a buck?  Yep.  Welcome to the rest of the world, Padre.
 
Ant
2014-01-06 02:53:55 PM  

Pants full of macaroni!!: You also have to loudly inform everyone within hearing range that you are an atheist


I've never done that. Usually it starts with a question from a believer like "What church do you go to?" or "has your son been baptized?"
 
2014-01-06 02:54:18 PM  
Other than not going to church, I don't see how that's much different from being religious. Most atheists aren't particularly activist. Even those who take potshots at religion on the internet usually don't go to "atheist gatherings" or anything.
 
2014-01-06 02:54:36 PM  
It's weird that he somehow thinks that atheists seek out jobs within religious organizations in the same way that Christians seek out employment in secular institutions and then act surprised that their duties involve something they personally don't believe in.
 
2014-01-06 02:55:29 PM  

EvilEgg: How does one "live like an atheist"?  Most Christians don't go to church, don't talk about Jesus much, and pretty much ignore Christ's teaching.


My experience has shown me atheists live a more Christian life (minus the praying and church attendance) than the most vocal fundamentalist Christians I know.
 
2014-01-06 02:55:54 PM  
He'll have to learn to be charitable to everyone and be able to accept charity with no strings attached. This might be hard for him. The workplace might be challenging, too. Companies reputations are built by treating their customers right. They have to deliver products to get paid. Unlike his religious experience, customers don't come back on faith alone.

He actually might have a good chance of getting work. Of course, he won't be able to use his Christian connections and actual work will need to be done, but I imagine sales, or police interrogator wouldn't be too much of a stretch. Con artist would probably be the easiest, but they have to have a lot of faith they won't get caught. Shouldn't be any surprise most convicted felons are Christians by the time they leave prison.
 
2014-01-06 02:56:12 PM  
You know this guy's going to have a "come to Jesus" moment very soon, overcome Satan's temptation, see the error of his ways, be led from the darkness, and all praise be unto Him and other Christian catchphrases.
 
2014-01-06 02:56:19 PM  

Itstoearly: "A lot of atheists remain in the closet precisely because they're afraid of the ramifications of coming out."

Yes, and a lot of Christians hide their faith for the same reason.  Sorry if I am not surprised that humans across the board tend to be biased against people who are different than them.


ic.pics.livejournal.com
 
2014-01-06 02:57:29 PM  

Ant: Pants full of macaroni!!: You also have to loudly inform everyone within hearing range that you are an atheist

I've never done that. Usually it starts with a question from a believer like "What church do you go to?" or "has your son been baptized?"


How those conversations actually go down in my experience.

Religious:What church do you attend/denomination do you subscribe to/another religious question
Atheist: Oh sorry I'm an atheist, I don't believe in any of that.
Religious:OH AN ATHEIST, HEAR THAT EVERYBODY AN ATHEIST, OHHHH AN ATHEIST.
Atheist: Yeah, I don't believe in organized religions as they are all organized by man as ways to control the masses and ignorant.
Religious:OH AN ATHEIST, HEAR THAT EVERYBODY, ETC.....
Atheist: I'll just be leaving now.
 
2014-01-06 02:57:50 PM  

Raider_dad: how would that work? not go to church , not say prayers , sleep in on Sunday , eat meat on Fridays. He might enjoy himself.


That meatless Fridays thing is only during Lent, you know. And even then, children under the age of 13 (I think that is the cutoff) are exempt.
The very old might be exempt too, but I'm not sure about that.

I don't get why folks just don't adopt a 'live and let live' attitude. You want to believe in Allah, Buddha, Odin, FSM, or nothing at all? Knock
yourself out. You don't have to believe in the same God (or any god) as me in order to be a good person. It's your actions that define you,
not whether or not you show up to a pretty building once a week for an hour.
 
2014-01-06 02:58:49 PM  

Itstoearly: "A lot of atheists remain in the closet precisely because they're afraid of the ramifications of coming out."

Yes, and a lot of Christians hide their faith for the same reason.  Sorry if I am not surprised that humans across the board tend to be biased against people who are different than them.


Where are these hiding Christians? I worked for an engineering firm for many years. They had a lunch break Bible study. The company I worked for before than had morning, afternoon, and evening prayer groups.  All these activities were voluntary and not run by the business owners, but no one was hiding.
 
2014-01-06 02:58:50 PM  

ScaryBottles: A Cave Geek: [global3.memecdn.com image 850x890]

[media.tumblr.com image 500x282]

I bet that goes over great with all the wannabe psdeudo-intellectual libertarians sisterfarkers on your facebook wall doesn't it.

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."

Neil deGrasse Tyson -


Atheism...the religion of peace
 
2014-01-06 02:59:11 PM  
This is just like the guns n' ammo editor whose entire career was utterly destroyed just because he suggested that it might be reasonable for a state to require handgun training before issuing a concealed carry permit.

This is how right wing groups respond to critical thinking.
 
2014-01-06 03:01:07 PM  
I happen to think that there are a lot more atheists out there than you would find on a survey though many would decline the label.

I was raised in a religious household and quite frankly my early life revolved around church. My father was ordained (though never preached often), I spent summers in camps (do not send your children to these, these places are rife with molestation, etc), completed in Bible competitions (yes, they are real), went to a private Baptist college, and everything else.

Then in college, things changed. Even in that highly conservative space there was a lot to open my eyes. Hell, one of my roommates in college was gay and did cross-dressing shows out of town a few times per year for fun. During and after college I slipped away from religion as I formed my own opinions about it. And now, I am an atheist though I might never call myself that.

I still go to service with my parents when I'm in town, I observe many of the traditions I grew up with and I'm unlikely to call myself anything other than "Christian". It would break my parents hearts if they knew and that's more important than a label.

My wife and I have even talked about joining a Unitarian Universalist church so that our children can grow up with traditions and have perspective on religion. Too often I've seen those unexposed to religion convert later in life and become zealots because it fills a need they never knew about or pursued and I don't want that to happen to my kids.
 
2014-01-06 03:01:08 PM  

Vangor: Satanic_Hamster: Every night, I put a few cd's into the turn table, open a beer, and play Counter Strike.  Does that count?

You still have CDs? And yeah.


Of course I still have cds.  You trust digital distribution?
 
2014-01-06 03:01:40 PM  

meat0918: My experience has shown me atheists live a more Christian life (minus the praying and church attendance) than the most vocal fundamentalist Christians I know.


Makes sense.  What are the two great commandments?  "Love God" and "Love Your Neighbor."  Fundies aren't big on the whole "loving your neighbor" thing, and while atheists may not believe in God, they at least have enough respect for the idea of a benevolent God not to attribute to Him the horrific character traits seen in the god of the Bible.
 
2014-01-06 03:01:47 PM  

Chummer45: This is just like the guns n' ammo editor whose entire career was utterly destroyed just because he suggested that it might be reasonable for a state to require handgun training before issuing a concealed carry permit.

This is how right wing groups respond to critical thinking.



How can they have a stance on something they don't believe in?
 
2014-01-06 03:01:48 PM  
Let me summarize what I read.

He was an adjunct professor, operating under a contract at a SEMINARY SCHOOL, presumably to teach people religious doctrine. Living as "an atheist" would presumably preclude him from teaching the Bible as gospel truth, because it must be taught from a position of faith unless you're just treating it as a scientific text to be taken apart point-by-point.

He is clearly an attention whore and couldn't be teaching in the capacity under which he was hired. They HAD to fire his stupid ass.

No outrage available.
 
2014-01-06 03:02:54 PM  

TheOnion: How does one live like an atheist? Stop praying and going to church?


Rule 1:  THERE IS NO RULE 1.
Rule 2:  No poofters.
 
2014-01-06 03:03:09 PM  
The only thing I do differently than the vast majority of Christians is that I don't feel bad about not going to church.
 
2014-01-06 03:04:09 PM  
So, this has to be a scam, right? I'm sure the whole reason he's "living like an atheist" is because of some high-minded moral experiment, and not as a ploy to build sympathy when the seminary he'd been working at told him he was going to lose his job next semester, right?

I mean, count me cynical, but this sounds too much like something designed to push the internet's buttons, same way as "lesbian waitress" did with her fake evil receipt. I mean, the timing on this just seems to convenient. Guy announces he's going to live like an atheist, boom, loses his job for religious reasons, and step 3: big ass gofundme raises $8,200 in 12 hours so far. He's writing a blog on HuffPo about the experience, he'd already been kicked out of his church this past May, and he's got paypal/donate links all over his website.

I mean, the guy probably really is having a crisis of faith and questioning the leadership (and possibly the doctrine) of the 7th Day Adventist church, but this "live like an atheist" experience seems like a stunt.
 
2014-01-06 03:05:53 PM  

phyrkrakr: seemsseams to convenient.


/pet peave
//d'oh
 
2014-01-06 03:07:14 PM  

digitalrain: Raider_dad: how would that work? not go to church , not say prayers , sleep in on Sunday , eat meat on Fridays. He might enjoy himself.

That meatless Fridays thing is only during Lent, you know. And even then, children under the age of 13 (I think that is the cutoff) are exempt.
The very old might be exempt too, but I'm not sure about that.

I don't get why folks just don't adopt a 'live and let live' attitude. You want to believe in Allah, Buddha, Odin, FSM, or nothing at all? Knock
yourself out. You don't have to believe in the same God (or any god) as me in order to be a good person. It's your actions that define you,
not whether or not you show up to a pretty building once a week for an hour.


^that's catholicism.
 
2014-01-06 03:07:24 PM  

Pangea: Let me summarize what I read.

He was an adjunct professor, operating under a contract at a SEMINARY SCHOOL, presumably to teach people religious doctrine. Living as "an atheist" would presumably preclude him from teaching the Bible as gospel truth, because it must be taught from a position of faith unless you're just treating it as a scientific text to be taken apart point-by-point.

He is clearly an attention whore and couldn't be teaching in the capacity under which he was hired. They HAD to fire his stupid ass.

No outrage available.


To be fair, he did manage to accomplish one of the few things only accessible to someone pretending to live as an atheist.
 
2014-01-06 03:08:02 PM  

AgentPothead: Ant: Pants full of macaroni!!: You also have to loudly inform everyone within hearing range that you are an atheist

I've never done that. Usually it starts with a question from a believer like "What church do you go to?" or "has your son been baptized?"

How those conversations actually go down in my experience.

Religious:What church do you attend/denomination do you subscribe to/another religious question
Atheist: Oh sorry I'm an atheist, I don't believe in any of that.
Religious:OH AN ATHEIST, HEAR THAT EVERYBODY AN ATHEIST, OHHHH AN ATHEIST.
Atheist: Yeah, I don't believe in organized religions as they are all organized by man as ways to control the masses and ignorant.
Religious:OH AN ATHEIST, HEAR THAT EVERYBODY, ETC.....
Atheist: I'll just be leaving now.


Think that's fun, try telling them that you're Jewish: The struggle to keep their traps shut is visible and hilarious.
/"He must know attorneys; must avoid unlawful discrimination lawsuit." vs. Urge to tell that heathen all about Jebus like Solly the Greek commanded.
//"He must know attorneys" has always won. So far.
///To be honest, you couldn't swing a cat in my congregation without hitting several attorneys, physicians, a full professor, and a judge or two.
\\\And, about half the time, an animal rights activist.
\\With a cat allergy.
\Slashied!
 
2014-01-06 03:10:22 PM  
How to live like an atheist:  masturbate... a LOT!
 
2014-01-06 03:11:43 PM  

ScaryBottles: A Cave Geek: [global3.memecdn.com image 850x890]

[media.tumblr.com image 500x282]

I bet that goes over great with all the wannabe psdeudo-intellectual libertarians sisterfarkers on your facebook wall doesn't it.

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."

Neil deGrasse Tyson -


Oh, for fark's sake -- it was funny.
 
2014-01-06 03:11:47 PM  

A Cave Geek: [global3.memecdn.com image 850x890]


Does the hot "Eve" come with the first choice?
 
2014-01-06 03:12:24 PM  
This is either the second or the third "weird atheist" thread greened today.
Did I miss a memo?
 
2014-01-06 03:14:20 PM  
He only had two weeks savings? WTF, no atheist has enough faith to only keep two weeks cash reserves. Never know when some shiat will go down, necessitating reliance on the higher power of "preparedness".
 
2014-01-06 03:14:40 PM  

The Southern Dandy: meanmutton: jigger: HotWingConspiracy: LOL

So very Christ-like.

Here's some trivia for you: Jesus hated anyone that wasn't a Christian.

He doesn't hate them. He loves them. Just because he sends them into a lake of fire for eternity doesn't mean he hates them.

Technically, Christians believe that Jesus tries to get people to go to heaven but they choose the lake of eternal fire.

So Jesus/God is impotent?  He has no power to stop a person from going to hell? Why pray to him if he's impotent?


Christians believe that God gives individuals free will to choose between Heaven and Hell.
 
2014-01-06 03:14:42 PM  

LoneWolf343: Yeah, that certainly won't color his perceptions any.

Personally, I don't know how my old Bible professor kept his job at my college since he would say openly "Alcohol ain't going to send you to hell."


Monks brewed awesome alcohol for a really long time. Only certain types of Bible thumpers preach alcohol as evil.
 
2014-01-06 03:17:19 PM  
And just because I like telling it, I often relate the story of Job, a Godly man who did everything right. A man who then lost his fortune, wife, children, and health as a result of God making a bet (which both parties already knew the outcome of). When God wins the bet he gives Job a new wife and kids and says, "So we're cool now, right?"
 
2014-01-06 03:17:43 PM  

gimmegimme: Itstoearly: "A lot of atheists remain in the closet precisely because they're afraid of the ramifications of coming out."

Yes, and a lot of Christians hide their faith for the same reason.  Sorry if I am not surprised that humans across the board tend to be biased against people who are different than them.

[ic.pics.livejournal.com image 350x262]


Can we get some citations on that? I'm not arguing your point, but I am arguing those numbers.
 
2014-01-06 03:17:54 PM  
See, the thing is, just being a atheist insults people of religiosity. You've called them idiots as soon as you tell them you're an atheist. Worse, you've called their mama an idiot too (because you generally don't get religious people without them having religious parents).

People hate being called idiots.
 
2014-01-06 03:18:52 PM  

ampoliros: Just to be clear, you can (pretend to) be an atheist and be employed by a religious organization. That's not really a big deal.  What is a big deal is (pretending to) be an atheist and be employed by a religious organization to teach religion.

If you're in accounting or IT at a religious institution and someone says, "Do you believe in God?" your answer has no bearing on your ability to do your job.  If you're a religion teacher and a student asks what you think of the material you're teaching and you're answer is, "It's a nice story with lessons we can learn but a story none-the-less" then you've got some issues that arise.

That said, the school seems pretty but-hurt over this and they reasons they give are not religious in nature (they even praise it's merits). They're simply worried about funding. That's something they need to worry about for sure but it just seems wrong to do so.


Well, that may be true... but it could be that Mr. Bell was just a dick to begin with.
 
2014-01-06 03:21:06 PM  

MindStalker: A Cave Geek: [global3.memecdn.com image 850x890]

Does the hot "Eve" come with the first choice?


A crazy lady that eats things because a snake tells her to?  You can have her.
 
2014-01-06 03:21:21 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: AgentPothead: Ant: Pants full of macaroni!!: You also have to loudly inform everyone within hearing range that you are an atheist

I've never done that. Usually it starts with a question from a believer like "What church do you go to?" or "has your son been baptized?"

How those conversations actually go down in my experience.

Religious:What church do you attend/denomination do you subscribe to/another religious question
Atheist: Oh sorry I'm an atheist, I don't believe in any of that.
Religious:OH AN ATHEIST, HEAR THAT EVERYBODY AN ATHEIST, OHHHH AN ATHEIST.
Atheist: Yeah, I don't believe in organized religions as they are all organized by man as ways to control the masses and ignorant.
Religious:OH AN ATHEIST, HEAR THAT EVERYBODY, ETC.....
Atheist: I'll just be leaving now.

Think that's fun, try telling them that you're Jewish: The struggle to keep their traps shut is visible and hilarious.
/"He must know attorneys; must avoid unlawful discrimination lawsuit." vs. Urge to tell that heathen all about Jebus like Solly the Greek commanded.
//"He must know attorneys" has always won. So far.
///To be honest, you couldn't swing a cat in my congregation without hitting several attorneys, physicians, a full professor, and a judge or two.
\\\And, about half the time, an animal rights activist.
\\With a cat allergy.
\Slashied!


Difference is the atheist doesn't have powerful groups that will run to their aid if they are offended by an off the cuff remark.
 
2014-01-06 03:21:46 PM  

Vangor: DeaH: The problem with that is that his beliefs have not changed. He never said he no longer believes in God, just that he will try to "live like an atheist" for a year.

I know Fark is not in the habit of reading articles, least of all a reference to a previous article which is itself a reference to another article, but I wanted to note this is wrong; his beliefs have changed and are changing:

In short, I will do whatever I can to enter the world of atheism and live, for a year, as an atheist. It's important to make the distinction that I am not an atheist. At least not yet. I am not sure what I am. That's part of what this year is about.


You start out with "I know Fark is not in the habit of reading articles." Sure, you walked it back a bit by then saying we should not only be reading the linked article but every link in the linked articles (because that's reasonable). Then you pull a quote that was not in the linked article (which I read), and you didn't bother to link to the article from which you pulled the quote. And the quote notes that he is not an atheist. He is, at best, questioning. Or, as the article you referenced does go on to say:

"That's a very good thing, no doubt, but scrutinizing your own beliefs isn't a substitute for being godless."

As for your assertion, you may very well be right. This man could have opened himself up to the idea that there is no God. He may also just be setting up a situation where he can come back and say, "My life is better with God." We don't know because he beliefs have not yet changed. After all, in the very article you quote, he talks about questioning his church's actions "through the years." And through those years, he talks about being active in his church. Mother Theresa questioned her faith and her church, but she did not leave her faith.

It is an interesting topic, but why did you choose to be such a jerk about it?
 
2014-01-06 03:22:13 PM  

MadMattressMack: gimmegimme: Itstoearly: "A lot of atheists remain in the closet precisely because they're afraid of the ramifications of coming out."

Yes, and a lot of Christians hide their faith for the same reason.  Sorry if I am not surprised that humans across the board tend to be biased against people who are different than them.

[ic.pics.livejournal.com image 350x262]

Can we get some citations on that? I'm not arguing your point, but I am arguing those numbers.


They are American demographics
 
2014-01-06 03:22:15 PM  
They fired him because his breath reeks of the blood of Christian babies.
 
2014-01-06 03:23:14 PM  
Some atheists go to Church.

Some atheists keep Kosher.

Some atheists are bishops.

So what is an atheist lifestyle? Doing your own laundry instead of taking it home to Mom?
 
2014-01-06 03:23:17 PM  

meanmutton: The Southern Dandy: meanmutton: jigger: HotWingConspiracy: LOL

So very Christ-like.

Here's some trivia for you: Jesus hated anyone that wasn't a Christian.

He doesn't hate them. He loves them. Just because he sends them into a lake of fire for eternity doesn't mean he hates them.

Technically, Christians believe that Jesus tries to get people to go to heaven but they choose the lake of eternal fire.

So Jesus/God is impotent?  He has no power to stop a person from going to hell? Why pray to him if he's impotent?

Christians believe that God gives individuals free will to choose between Heaven and Hell.


"Worship me or I torture you for eternity!" doesn't seem much like "free will" to me, it sounds like a false choice. Something lots of abusers do.
 
2014-01-06 03:26:02 PM  

Pitabred: "Worship me or I torture you for eternity!" doesn't seem much like "free will" to me, it sounds like a false choice. Something lots of abusers do.


Reminds me of these threads
 
2014-01-06 03:26:09 PM  

A Cave Geek: [global3.memecdn.com image 850x890]


You're half right.
 
2014-01-06 03:28:03 PM  

meanmutton: jigger: HotWingConspiracy: LOL

So very Christ-like.

Here's some trivia for you: Jesus hated anyone that wasn't a Christian.

He doesn't hate them. He loves them. Just because he sends them into a lake of fire for eternity doesn't mean he hates them.

Technically, Christians believe that Jesus tries to get people to go to heaven but they choose the lake of eternal fire.


The lake of eternal fire created by Jesus (God) for that purpose.
 
2014-01-06 03:30:02 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: A Cave Geek: [global3.memecdn.com image 850x890]

You're half right.


Dude...snark....You can make any belief system sound ridiculous when you break it down far enough.
 
2014-01-06 03:31:27 PM  
jigger:

The lake of eternal fire created by Jesus (God) for that purpose.

Nice soul you got there. Be a shame if anything happened to it. Maybe you love me and nothing bad happens to it. Maybe you get down on your knees and tell me how much you love and worship me and you want be in for a world of hurt.
 
2014-01-06 03:31:35 PM  

TheOnion: How does one live like an atheist? Stop praying and going to church?


That and complain a lot and take high doses of SSRIs.
 
2014-01-06 03:31:50 PM  
Is "living like an atheist" similar to those "gay agenda" posts I've seen?
 
2014-01-06 03:32:26 PM  

meanmutton: Christians believe that God gives individuals free will to choose between Heaven and Hell.


25.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-01-06 03:33:28 PM  

Pangea: Let me summarize what I read.

He was an adjunct professor, operating under a contract at a SEMINARY SCHOOL, presumably to teach people religious doctrine. Living as "an atheist" would presumably preclude him from teaching the Bible as gospel truth, because it must be taught from a position of faith unless you're just treating it as a scientific text to be taken apart point-by-point.

He is clearly an attention whore and couldn't be teaching in the capacity under which he was hired. They HAD to fire his stupid ass.

No outrage available.


I have no argument that the school has the right to fire him. They could do it even if he weren't doing this "experiment." Where I disagree is the statement that an atheist can not teach from the Bible. Textual analysis and understanding parables is not just for Christians. Selected internet atheists aside, most atheist I know are very polite. They have no wish to "convert" believers into atheists. There would be nothing that would get in the way of teaching the Bible or even passing on the dogma of the particular faith. What he could not do as an atheist is preach or evangelize.

But again, the school has a right to fire him. Just the fact that he has been open about this is grounds for firing him, and private schools do not even need grounds for adjunct.
 
2014-01-06 03:35:58 PM  

Pangea: meanmutton: Christians believe that God gives individuals free will to choose between Heaven and Hell.

[25.media.tumblr.com image 850x566]


Jesus said there is only one unforgivable sin, look it up.
 
2014-01-06 03:38:28 PM  
I think I've got it!

Living like an atheist for a year means you don't watch Duck Dynasty!

That kind of heresy can get you excommunicated from the Southern Baptist Pinhead Convention, not to mention the Rick Perry Bible Fellowship.

I refuse to watch Duck Dynasty, but it's not because I am an atheist. I refuse to watch day time soap operas and night time reality shows because they teach back-stabbing, back-biting and contrived plotting and phonyness. Also, marrying your fifteen year old cousins and treating them like sex slaves or mongrel dogs. And, of course, the use of non-union labor, amateur actors, and uncredited writers. In short, it is the crassest form of exploitation of the audience's vices, the insane aspirations of unskilled actors, and cheap production values.

If I want cheap production values, I can watch a proper ten-a-penny game show on Canadian TV. If I want bad acting, bad directing and low production values, I can watch B-movies. This is my Faith. This is my Rock. I stand on it.
 
2014-01-06 03:39:16 PM  

Captain Darling: Not teaching at a seminary sounds like part of living like an atheist.


Yup. That's pretty much it. It would be absurd for a seminary to keep an openly atheist teacher in opposition to their beliefs, and it would be absurd for an atheist to teach at a seminary. His experiment, interesting though it may be, renders him incompatible with that particular employment. Like a man who decides to live a year as a blind man working as an air traffic controller.

Of course, he can certainly teach religious studies or philosophy at any number of universities that will have him.
 
2014-01-06 03:39:44 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: LOL

So very Christ-like.

Here's some trivia for you: Jesus hated anyone that wasn't a Christian.


Problem with that logic is that Christians didn't exist until after Jesus died.
 
2014-01-06 03:39:49 PM  

InterruptingQuirk: demaL-demaL-yeH: AgentPothead: Ant: Pants full of macaroni!!: You also have to loudly inform everyone within hearing range that you are an atheist

I've never done that. Usually it starts with a question from a believer like "What church do you go to?" or "has your son been baptized?"

How those conversations actually go down in my experience.

Religious:What church do you attend/denomination do you subscribe to/another religious question
Atheist: Oh sorry I'm an atheist, I don't believe in any of that.
Religious:OH AN ATHEIST, HEAR THAT EVERYBODY AN ATHEIST, OHHHH AN ATHEIST.
Atheist: Yeah, I don't believe in organized religions as they are all organized by man as ways to control the masses and ignorant.
Religious:OH AN ATHEIST, HEAR THAT EVERYBODY, ETC.....
Atheist: I'll just be leaving now.

Think that's fun, try telling them that you're Jewish: The struggle to keep their traps shut is visible and hilarious.
/"He must know attorneys; must avoid unlawful discrimination lawsuit." vs. Urge to tell that heathen all about Jebus like Solly the Greek commanded.
//"He must know attorneys" has always won. So far.
///To be honest, you couldn't swing a cat in my congregation without hitting several attorneys, physicians, a full professor, and a judge or two.
\\\And, about half the time, an animal rights activist.
\\With a cat allergy.
\Slashied!

Difference is the atheist doesn't have powerful groups that will run to their aid if they are offended by an off the cuff remark.


[notsureifserious.jpg]
I mean sure, the atheists aren't like "controlling the media and all the world's finances" powerful, but they'll jump in the butthurtmobile and create a media circus just as fast as any other group.

/ Also you guys need to move or find new people to hang out with.  I've never experienced or observed that sort of conversation in real life, and I live in Texas.  Most people 'round these parts don't give two shiats.
 
2014-01-06 03:40:10 PM  
If he dies within that year does he die unshriven?
 
2014-01-06 03:42:52 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Captain Darling: Not teaching at a seminary sounds like part of living like an atheist.

Yep.  Also, how exactly does one live as an atheist?  I don't go to atheist lectures or clubs, apparently I'm doing it wrong?


Well there is an Atheist church according to this thread:

http://www.fark.com/comments/8087692
 
2014-01-06 03:43:05 PM  

InterruptingQuirk: Difference is the atheist doesn't have powerful groups that will run to their aid if they are offended by an off the cuff remark.


"Off-the-cuff"?

Ever been the object of aggressive proselytization?
I have. Many, many times.
My children have been aggressively proselytized.
I still have total strangers ring my doorbell and interrupt my meals to tell me all about Jebus.
On the Sabbath.

Having grown up in the overly-polished buckle of the Bible Belt, let me tell you a truth:
There is nothing "off-the-cuff" about this behavior. It is deliberate, demeaning, disgusting, and, in a place of business, absolutely unprofessional.
 
2014-01-06 03:43:17 PM  

Whiskey Dickens: HotWingConspiracy: LOL

So very Christ-like.

Here's some trivia for you: Jesus hated anyone that wasn't a Christian.

Is this a troll?  The number of practicing Christians while Jesus was alive varies between 0 and 12ish.


It's sarcasm you twit. That's exactly his point.
 
2014-01-06 03:43:44 PM  

DeaH: I have no argument that the school has the right to fire him. They could do it even if he weren't doing this "experiment." Where I disagree is the statement that an atheist can not teach from the Bible.


I'm not honestly saying an atheist can't teach from the Bible, notice how I said it would "presumably preclude him from teaching the Bible as gospel truth"

The Bible quickly falls apart when taken as the living word of God, as many Christians treat it. If taken as parables and allegory it's very powerful. Jesus even talked about that. I can't quote the passage, but it was something along the lines of having to teach from simplified examples because people couldn't understand the true teachings.

The problem is that you can't force people to do exactly what you say under fear of eternal damnation if you give on the "direct word of God" angle.
 
2014-01-06 03:45:19 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: LOL

So very Christ-like.

Here's some trivia for you: Jesus hated anyone that wasn't a Christian.


Jesus didn't know anyone who WAS a Christian - he was a Jew.  Christianity should be called Paulism, 'cause that nonsense didn't start until Saul had a detour on his trip to Damascus and changed his name.
 
2014-01-06 03:45:24 PM  

manbart: Atheism is simply the non-belief in the supernatural


That's only half of atheism.  The other half is the sneering derision of anyone who does believe.
 
2014-01-06 03:45:45 PM  
It sounds like this guy has a perverted view of what an atheist is. He makes it sound like living a year as a crack whore. Which on second thought is probably more fun than living a year as a christian.
 
2014-01-06 03:45:48 PM  
When I was back there in seminary school
There was a person there
Who put forth the proposition
That you can petition the Lord with prayer
Petition the lord with prayer
Petition the lord with prayer
You cannot petition the lord with prayer!
 
2014-01-06 03:46:34 PM  

Olympic Trolling Judge: meat0918: My experience has shown me atheists live a more Christian life (minus the praying and church attendance) than the most vocal fundamentalist Christians I know.

Makes sense.  What are the two great commandments?  "Love God" and "Love Your Neighbor."  Fundies aren't big on the whole "loving your neighbor" thing, and while atheists may not believe in God, they at least have enough respect for the idea of a benevolent God not to attribute to Him the horrific character traits seen in the god of the Bible.


I don't know if it's fair to simplify the book in that way.  It's like saying The Texas Chainsaw Massacre is a vocational film because you see someone fix a chainsaw for five seconds.

Many atheists understand that the Bible is just another book and the people in it are literary characters.  I'm not sure where the idea of a "benevolent god" comes into it.
 
2014-01-06 03:46:43 PM  

A Cave Geek: Marcus Aurelius: A Cave Geek: [global3.memecdn.com image 850x890]

You're half right.

Dude...snark....You can make any belief system sound ridiculous when you break it down far enough.


Except that "break down" of the big bang theory was complete and utter BS not even remotely resembling what the current scientific theories are.
 
2014-01-06 03:46:45 PM  

FitzShivering: Valiente: EvilEgg: How does one "live like an atheist"?  Most Christians don't go to church, don't talk about Jesus much, and pretty much ignore Christ's teaching.

Not necessarily. Christ (or people writing decades after his death allegedly quoting him) said some pretty interesting stuff, as did many of his Classical contemporaries. But he also said some fairly inflammatory things that would tend to tick off the establishment Jews and the Romans of his time.

If you read Christ like you read Plato, or Marcus Aurelius, or Plotinus or even the emperor Julian, it's all good. Currently applicable life lessons may be drawn from "the collected sayings of" and can be used as part of a functional moral compass by any old atheist.

It's when you start with the actual religious edifice built on these sayings, which many people (not only non-religious people) find pretty much diametrically opposed to the intent of the words of the teacher who (again, allegedly and almost certainly heavily redacted) said them, that it all becomes problematic.

Christ the wisdom teacher is fine, if a little "local". Christ the magical fairy with the complicated god/man origin story and the church full of heretic-smiting, gold-loving kiddie fiddlers? Not so much.

My favorite is still Jesus with the moneylenders.  Mainly because Jesus hated capitalism.   Free market put those thieves in that temple, damn it!


What a peacemaker, just the sort of pro-family, hearth and home proto-Republican the world was looking for:

"34"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
35For I have come to turn
"'a man against his father,
    a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law-
36    a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.'[http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+10#fe n-NIV-23454c" title="See footnote c">c]
37
"Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. "
 
2014-01-06 03:47:02 PM  

meanmutton: jigger: HotWingConspiracy: LOL

So very Christ-like.

Here's some trivia for you: Jesus hated anyone that wasn't a Christian.

He doesn't hate them. He loves them. Just because he sends them into a lake of fire for eternity doesn't mean he hates them.

Technically, Christians believe that Jesus tries to get people to go to heaven but they choose the lake of eternal fire.


No, Christians believe that if a person doesn't follow a certain lifestyle, practice their religion a certain way, that they will go to hell. A lot like saying if a women dresses a certain way, she's asking to get raped.
 
2014-01-06 03:47:24 PM  

Pangea: Let me summarize what I read.

He was an adjunct professor, operating under a contract at a SEMINARY SCHOOL, presumably to teach people religious doctrine. Living as "an atheist" would presumably preclude him from teaching the Bible as gospel truth, because it must be taught from a position of faith unless you're just treating it as a scientific text to be taken apart point-by-point.

He is clearly an attention whore and couldn't be teaching in the capacity under which he was hired. They HAD to fire his stupid ass.

No outrage available.


And I would still disagree with the school.  I wouldn't trust someone who grew up in a church and never once questioned anything in the church.  Most people I know in the church I attend, have either converted or had a period in their lives that they took time away from church and questioned things before choosing to return.  If you are going to believe, take the time to search and study what you are saying you believe in.  Understand what it is you are saying you are standing for.  I was in my late 20's before I joined a church, and I stand behind my decision.  My dad is still pissed about the church I joined.  Funny thing is, we agree on all topics faith related.  He just doesn't trust the RLDS.  Example, we agree on not baptizing babies, yet he'll attend a church that baptizes babies and still doesn't like my choice of a church that does not baptize babies.

His ability to teach would not have been hampered by his experiment.  If anything, it would've gotten better.  I stopped trusting seminary schools a long time ago.  They are not ran by sane people.
 
2014-01-06 03:47:31 PM  

Latinwolf: Well there is an Atheist church according to this thread:

http://www.fark.com/comments/8087692


I don't click on links to fark.
 
2014-01-06 03:48:06 PM  

meanmutton: The Southern Dandy: meanmutton: jigger: HotWingConspiracy: LOL

So very Christ-like.

Here's some trivia for you: Jesus hated anyone that wasn't a Christian.

He doesn't hate them. He loves them. Just because he sends them into a lake of fire for eternity doesn't mean he hates them.

Technically, Christians believe that Jesus tries to get people to go to heaven but they choose the lake of eternal fire.

So Jesus/God is impotent?  He has no power to stop a person from going to hell? Why pray to him if he's impotent?

Christians believe that God gives individuals free will to choose between Heaven and Hell.


That all depends on their stance on Grace. Calvinists teach that humans can only be saved through God-granted Sovereign Grace. Such grace cannot be achieved through action or belief; It can only be granted by God. Further, one cannot lose God's grace once It has been granted.
 
Ant
2014-01-06 03:49:30 PM  

Vangor: In the previous article, he notes he will stop attending church, cease praying, cease praising or otherwise referring to a deity as the cause of events,  not read the Bible


Many atheists know The Bible backward and forward.
 
2014-01-06 03:49:33 PM  

Primitive Screwhead: When I was back there in seminary school
There was a person there
Who put forth the proposition
That you can petition the Lord with prayer
Petition the lord with prayer
Petition the lord with prayer
You cannot petition the lord with prayer!


Great album
 
2014-01-06 03:50:00 PM  
Teachers of make-believe can't pretend to believe in verifiable facts.  It undercuts their position and gives the impression that other ideas are acceptable or even true.

There's nothing stopping someone who is "living" like an atheist from still teaching the gospel, I mean I could totally do it if I was willing to give up my self respect and lie to everyone in my congregation preying on their ignorance and psychological need for social acceptance.
 
2014-01-06 03:50:49 PM  

TheOnion: How does one live like an atheist?


Copious amounts of guilt-free masturbation?
 
2014-01-06 03:51:21 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: InterruptingQuirk: Difference is the atheist doesn't have powerful groups that will run to their aid if they are offended by an off the cuff remark.

"Off-the-cuff"?

Ever been the object of aggressive proselytization?
I have. Many, many times.
My children have been aggressively proselytized.
I still have total strangers ring my doorbell and interrupt my meals to tell me all about Jebus.
On the Sabbath.

Having grown up in the overly-polished buckle of the Bible Belt, let me tell you a truth:
There is nothing "off-the-cuff" about this behavior. It is deliberate, demeaning, disgusting, and, in a place of business, absolutely unprofessional.


To be fair, they don't do it because you are an atheist, they do it because you are not a member of the congregation they are.

I have been very religious and very not religious in my life. During all of those times I was an object of aggressive proselytization for some group or another.
 
2014-01-06 03:51:28 PM  

GoldSpider: manbart: Atheism is simply the non-belief in the supernatural

That's only half of atheism.  The other half is the sneering derision of anyone who does believe.


SMUG, SNEERING ATHEISTS!

/who was the guy who used to say "smug, sneering Liberals" in every single post?
 
Ant
2014-01-06 03:52:40 PM  

JusticeandIndependence: I just plain don't think about why I don't believe.


You sound like you think there's something wrong with knowing exactly what you do/don't believe and why you do/don't believe it. I wish more people would examine their beliefs and why they hold them.
 
2014-01-06 03:52:42 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: Captain Darling: Not teaching at a seminary sounds like part of living like an atheist.

Yup. That's pretty much it. It would be absurd for a seminary to keep an openly atheist teacher in opposition to their beliefs, and it would be absurd for an atheist to teach at a seminary. His experiment, interesting though it may be, renders him incompatible with that particular employment. Like a man who decides to live a year as a blind man working as an air traffic controller.

Of course, he can certainly teach religious studies or philosophy at any number of universities that will have him.


I don't think his experiment has anything to do with his qualifications to teach at a seminary. Nor does his beliefs, which I can't imagine he shuts off for a year or whatever that means. Does an "Ethics" professor need to be a good person to teach Ethics? No.
 
2014-01-06 03:53:02 PM  

Pangea: DeaH: I have no argument that the school has the right to fire him. They could do it even if he weren't doing this "experiment." Where I disagree is the statement that an atheist can not teach from the Bible.

I'm not honestly saying an atheist can't teach from the Bible, notice how I said it would "presumably preclude him from teaching the Bible as gospel truth"

The Bible quickly falls apart when taken as the living word of God, as many Christians treat it. If taken as parables and allegory it's very powerful. Jesus even talked about that. I can't quote the passage, but it was something along the lines of having to teach from simplified examples because people couldn't understand the true teachings.

The problem is that you can't force people to do exactly what you say under fear of eternal damnation if you give on the "direct word of God" angle.


I have never been to seminary school, but I do know ministers and priests who have been to seminary school. While there are religious services, they are separate from classes. I was under the impression that the Bible is not taught as the gospel truth in class. Well, of course it isn't taught that way in Catholic seminaries because the Bible isn't treated like that in Catholic doctrine, but I know a Presbyterian minister who said her seminary had a far more scholarly approach to the Bible.
 
2014-01-06 03:53:27 PM  

Ant: How the hell do you live like an atheist?


Get up, drink some coffee, shower & shave, drive to work. Deal with idiot clients and prima donna co-workers all day long. Fark off on the internet a little. Drive back home, help the wife with dinner. Get in a little treadmill time, watch some TV, take some melatonin and go to bed.

Repeat.
 
2014-01-06 03:53:53 PM  
img.fark.net
 
2014-01-06 03:54:20 PM  

Ant: Vangor: In the previous article, he notes he will stop attending church, cease praying, cease praising or otherwise referring to a deity as the cause of events,  not read the Bible

Many atheists know The Bible backward and forward.


especially backwards -  muah-haha!
 
2014-01-06 03:55:40 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: Ever been the object of aggressive proselytization?
I have. Many, many times.
My children have been aggressively proselytized.
I still have total strangers ring my doorbell and interrupt my meals to tell me all about Jebus.
On the Sabbath.

Having grown up in the overly-polished buckle of the Bible Belt, let me tell you a truth:
There is nothing "off-the-cuff" about this behavior. It is deliberate, demeaning, disgusting, and, in a place of business, absolutely unprofessional.


Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. I am a person that lives in this world too.

And who has the groups, which no one challenges for fear of committing social suicide, to back them up, you or atheists? The ACLU might be your first thought, but they are not dedicated to one group. They even defend Christians from time to time.
 
2014-01-06 03:57:02 PM  

Ablejack: Ant: Vangor: In the previous article, he notes he will stop attending church, cease praying, cease praising or otherwise referring to a deity as the cause of events,  not read the Bible

Many atheists know The Bible backward and forward.

especially backwards -  muah-haha!


I hear that if you play the Bible backwards, you can hear undead chickens clucking.
 
2014-01-06 03:57:22 PM  

ampoliros: Just to be clear, you can (pretend to) be an atheist and be employed by a religious organization.


Actually, you can really *be* an atheist and be employed by a religious organization.  I worked for the Presbyterian Church national HQ in an IT role for a while.  No one there ever asked me what my religious beliefs were.  And I never brought it up.
 
Ant
2014-01-06 04:01:06 PM  

Itstoearly: Yes, and a lot of Christians hide their faith for the same reason.


In Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan or Pakistan, sure. In The US? Why?

Or do you mean that they hide the less popular parts of their faith, like homophobia and misogyny?
 
2014-01-06 04:03:12 PM  

Reverend J: A Cave Geek: Marcus Aurelius: A Cave Geek: [global3.memecdn.com image 850x890]

You're half right.

Dude...snark....You can make any belief system sound ridiculous when you break it down far enough.

Except that "break down" of the big bang theory was complete and utter BS not even remotely resembling what the current scientific theories are.


I'm aware.  Nor does the christian view of things make a terribly accurate representation of their view.  It designed to point out that accepting anything 'on faith' without examining it rationally and scientifically is bound to land you into a belief system that will eventually be 'proven wrong'.  Even stating the fact that "God does not exist" is kinda stupid if you can't explain 'why' God doesn't exist.  (A belief I happen to share...I can explain why, if you are interested.  You probably aren't.)

Yes, I'm aware of the cutting edge research into the origins of the universe, as well as research into super-symmetry, string theory, and all the others.  Yes, I can do the math, and yes, I understand them.

Now take a farking pill.
 
2014-01-06 04:03:12 PM  

DeaH: Pangea: DeaH: I have no argument that the school has the right to fire him. They could do it even if he weren't doing this "experiment." Where I disagree is the statement that an atheist can not teach from the Bible.

I'm not honestly saying an atheist can't teach from the Bible, notice how I said it would "presumably preclude him from teaching the Bible as gospel truth"

The Bible quickly falls apart when taken as the living word of God, as many Christians treat it. If taken as parables and allegory it's very powerful. Jesus even talked about that. I can't quote the passage, but it was something along the lines of having to teach from simplified examples because people couldn't understand the true teachings.

The problem is that you can't force people to do exactly what you say under fear of eternal damnation if you give on the "direct word of God" angle.

I have never been to seminary school, but I do know ministers and priests who have been to seminary school. While there are religious services, they are separate from classes. I was under the impression that the Bible is not taught as the gospel truth in class. Well, of course it isn't taught that way in Catholic seminaries because the Bible isn't treated like that in Catholic doctrine, but I know a Presbyterian minister who said her seminary had a far more scholarly approach to the Bible.


And I admire and respect that position. I've got a belief in some higher order and it works for me, but I tried going to few "modern" churches for the fellowship. It's casual dress with live music and a good message, but then it got real.

They talked about taking the Bible literally and used it to explain that they will love homosexuals but they can't get into Heaven no matter how awesome they are. I suppose it's important to note that they never mentioned the whole "camel through the eye of a needle" bit about rich people getting into Heaven, given that a lot of their congregation was very wealthy.

I probably just had a few bad experiences, but they accumulated into enough to turn me off churches pretty much entirely.
 
2014-01-06 04:03:40 PM  

A Cave Geek: Marcus Aurelius: A Cave Geek: [global3.memecdn.com image 850x890]

You're half right.

Dude...snark....You can make any belief system sound ridiculous when you break it down far enough.


True, but only one of those breakdowns bears any real resemblance to the original. The other one is meaningless gibberish that ignores the facts.
 
2014-01-06 04:05:38 PM  

serial_crusher: I've never experienced or observed that sort of conversation in real life, and I live in Texas. Most people 'round these parts don't give two shiats.


Same here. There are so many very different faiths just among the Christians that it's just common sense and courtesy to leave people to whatever faith they have, even if it's none. 'You tend to your, I'll tend to mine' still largely holds when it comes to religion.

Of course, you go poking someone about their religion, then all bets are off.
 
2014-01-06 04:07:50 PM  

Latinwolf: HotWingConspiracy: LOL

So very Christ-like.

Here's some trivia for you: Jesus hated anyone that wasn't a Christian.

Problem with that logic is that Christians didn't exist until after Jesus died.


According to the Book of Mormon, that is not the case.  Not only it was never taught Jesus hates anyone, but BoM tells of a people believe in Jesus circa 600BC.  As much as we discuss believing in his past, they discussed his birth, practiced baptism and quit animal sacrifice.  And they were Jewish, which yes, all Jews are still looking forward to Christ arrival.  As per the story, they knew his name and lived in Latin America after leaving Israel.  It was also stated that prior to them, that baptism was established.  Many of the teachings of Jesus was given as lessons before his birth, however the Pharisees strayed from them and is why they fought him.

It was written that they knew the day he was born and the day he was crucified.  There is physical evidence of massive earthquakes sinking whole cities, that according to the story took place the day of crucifixion.
 
2014-01-06 04:10:28 PM  

Ant: Many atheists know believe they know The Bible backward and forward.


Not saying none do, but the percentage of Atheists I have debated who actually have any familiarity beyond basic Sunday School level is pretty much nil. Sure they can quote something they read in an atheist book or blog or whatever, but ask them something outside their pre-loaded bullet points? Blank.

To be fair, this is exactly the same situation when debating most Christians about their faith as well. Basic Sunday School level at best.
 
2014-01-06 04:10:42 PM  
Is this code for he wants to have gay sex?
 
2014-01-06 04:11:28 PM  

lack of warmth: There is physical evidence of massive earthquakes sinking whole cities,



... ummm.... cite?
 
2014-01-06 04:12:23 PM  

Carn: Is this code for he wants to have gay sex?


No that would mean living as a Seminary professor.
 
2014-01-06 04:12:28 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: Ant: Many atheists know believe they know The Bible backward and forward.

Not saying none do, but the percentage of Atheists I have debated who actually have any familiarity beyond basic Sunday School level is pretty much nil. Sure they can quote something they read in an atheist book or blog or whatever, but ask them something outside their pre-loaded bullet points? Blank.

To be fair, this is exactly the same situation when debating most Christians about their faith as well. Basic Sunday School level at best.


Agreed.  I can't stand when some neckbearded militant atheist points out that some random Christian who believes God's teaching about homosexuality in Leviticus is going to Hell for eating shrimp.
 
2014-01-06 04:12:47 PM  

Pangea: I probably just had a few bad experiences, but they accumulated into enough to turn me off churches pretty much entirely.


I assume you were going to the 'non-denominational'?
 
2014-01-06 04:14:09 PM  
Funny story if I may say so.

He didn't "try to live like an atheist", he was a dumbass and wanted attention.

He got it.
 
2014-01-06 04:15:51 PM  
i851.photobucket.com
 
2014-01-06 04:17:10 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: Ant: Many atheists know believe they know The Bible backward and forward.

Not saying none do, but the percentage of Atheists I have debated who actually have any familiarity beyond basic Sunday School level is pretty much nil. Sure they can quote something they read in an atheist book or blog or whatever, but ask them something outside their pre-loaded bullet points? Blank.

To be fair, this is exactly the same situation when debating most Christians about their faith as well. Basic Sunday School level at best.


Most Christians I've debated know about as much about science as an elementary school kid.  They think the bible tells them all they need to know.  They quote buzzwords without knowing what any of them actually mean.
 
Ant
2014-01-06 04:17:16 PM  

GoldSpider: That's only half of atheism.   The other half is the sneering derision of anyone who does believe.


That part is optional. Do it if you enjoy it.
 
2014-01-06 04:18:03 PM  

sovietski: EvilEgg: EvilEgg: How does one "live like an atheist"?  Most Christians don't go to church, don't talk about Jesus much, and pretty much ignore Christ's teaching.

I thought about it, and I decided he could read the Bible, that's one thing many atheists do that Christians don't.

I've found that atheists are generally more willing to discuss theology logically than religious folks. Lots of religious folks get their panties in a twist when you ask uncomfortable questions. Very rarely do you find one that will discuss a touchy subject without condemning you.

The above is my experience. Not my intention to paint with a broad brush.

I had one girl condemn me to Hell in the beginning of a rather volatile conversation about televangelists and hypocrisy. By the end, she told me that "Jesus had forgiven me."

/shakes head


This, along with theists like the now unemployed subject of the article along with existentialists and philosophers make for good theological conversation. Otherwise you are better off heading for the nearest echo chamber or argument room for the thrill if that is your sort of thing.

/shrug
 
2014-01-06 04:18:27 PM  

GoldSpider: manbart: Atheism is simply the non-belief in the supernatural

That's only half of atheism.  The other half is the sneering derision of anyone who does believe.


You got your anti-theism in my atheism.
 
2014-01-06 04:19:41 PM  

meanmutton: It's not religious bigotry when a seminary fires you as a Pastor because of your religious beliefs.



Yeah, this whole endeavour is silly for a number of reasons.
 
2014-01-06 04:19:43 PM  

KidneyStone: Like I need to go to a meeting to tell me what I don't believe in?


there's a joke in there about various  training meetings at very large companies, but I'm too lazy and unemployed to find it.
 
2014-01-06 04:20:39 PM  

lack of warmth: Not only it was never taught Jesus hates anyone, but BoM tells of a people believe in Jesus circa 600BC.


I'm not sure what to make of that word salad, but I'm nigh to certain that no Cuisinart coffeemaker  BoM includes any of those specifications.
 
2014-01-06 04:21:28 PM  

doctor wu: meanmutton: It's not religious bigotry when a seminary fires you as a Pastor because of your religious beliefs.


Yeah, this whole endeavour is silly for a number of reasons.


Reminds me of that guy to took a job to study evolution, then refused to because it was against his religion, got fired, and tried to sue.  Can't remember the whole situation.
 
2014-01-06 04:22:31 PM  

A Cave Geek: Most Christians I've debated know about as much about science as an elementary school kid. They think the bible tells them all they need to know. They quote buzzwords without knowing what any of them actually mean.


I think the problem there is that your peers are just morons. Their religion is a secondary characteristic. Most people in this country are Christian, regardless of intellect, income level, or education. Of you WANT to talk to intelligent educated Christians, go find some intelligent, educated PEOPLE.

You might as well say that most brown-haired people you talk to know about as much about science as an elementary school kid.
 
2014-01-06 04:22:43 PM  

lordjupiter: Carn: Is this code for he wants to have gay sex?

No that would mean living as a Seminary professor.


haha that's even better.  "Um dudes, I like Jesus but I don't like like him, you get me?  Put your pants back on, Ralph."
 
2014-01-06 04:24:31 PM  

A Cave Geek: doctor wu: meanmutton: It's not religious bigotry when a seminary fires you as a Pastor because of your religious beliefs.


Yeah, this whole endeavour is silly for a number of reasons.

Reminds me of that guy to took a job to study evolution, then refused to because it was against his religion, got fired, and tried to sue.  Can't remember the whole situation.


reminds me of that other guy who took a job helping spy on folks but he was against spying on folks.  I also can't remember the whole situation, but it turned out Alex Trebek's mother was a whore.
 
2014-01-06 04:24:41 PM  
This whole premise sounds like a rejected 80's comedy series.
 
2014-01-06 04:25:39 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: A Cave Geek: Most Christians I've debated know about as much about science as an elementary school kid. They think the bible tells them all they need to know. They quote buzzwords without knowing what any of them actually mean.

I think the problem there is that your peers are just morons. Their religion is a secondary characteristic. Most people in this country are Christian, regardless of intellect, income level, or education. Of you WANT to talk to intelligent educated Christians, go find some intelligent, educated PEOPLE.

You might as well say that most brown-haired people you talk to know about as much about science as an elementary school kid.


Most of the people I'm referencing are college educated.  Not nearly as many christians know as much about science as they think they do.  the christian wing of the libertarian crowd is particularly annoying in that regard.  Know nothing about science, think they know everything.
 
2014-01-06 04:26:43 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: A Cave Geek: Most Christians I've debated know about as much about science as an elementary school kid. They think the bible tells them all they need to know. They quote buzzwords without knowing what any of them actually mean.

I think the problem there is that your peers are just morons. Their religion is a secondary characteristic. Most people in this country are Christian, regardless of intellect, income level, or education. Of you WANT to talk to intelligent educated Christians, go find some intelligent, educated PEOPLE.

You might as well say that most brown-haired people you talk to know about as much about science as an elementary school kid.


Exactly.  There's absolutely no data to suggest that Christians know less about science and religion than non-Christians.

www.pewforum.org

www.pewforum.org
 
2014-01-06 04:28:29 PM  

ampoliros: And just because I like telling it, I often relate the story of Job, a Godly man who did everything right. A man who then lost his fortune, wife, children, and health as a result of God making a bet (which both parties already knew the outcome of). When God wins the bet he gives Job a new wife and kids and says, "So we're cool now, right?"


The Iraqi pastor at my church preaches Job without the happy ending.  Just sayin'

I really don't know how the guy in the article intended to live like an atheist if he was a Christian.  It's like not talking to your dad when he's in the same room.  I used to be an atheist and when it comes down to it, the idea and 'practice' of not talking to God is horrifying because I know what the difference was in my life.  Sometimes I'm pissed at God and refuse to participate in the relationship.   Many Christians don't consider themselves 'religious' as it's about the relationship with God.  Many only seem to know the religious part, but not very well.

I was shocked when I first started hanging around Christians because they tended not to get all the (turns out) obscure scriptural jokes I was making.  "Really?  You've been in this all your life and don't know this stuff?"  I had been reading the bible every night for about 4 or 5 years before I went to a church or became a Christian.  There were still a lot of things I didn't understand then.

My church works on a volunteer basis with social workers from many agencies caring for homeless people.  We're one of the few religious groups that attend the monthly case management meetings.  It took a year or 2 year for some of the Christians from the secular agencies to 'come out' as church people.
 
2014-01-06 04:29:06 PM  
What a disappointing response from the Christian schools and church.

Me too. Seventh Day Adventists, I am disappoint.
 
2014-01-06 04:29:48 PM  

Pangea: DeaH: Pangea: DeaH: I have no argument that the school has the right to fire him. They could do it even if he weren't doing this "experiment." Where I disagree is the statement that an atheist can not teach from the Bible.

I'm not honestly saying an atheist can't teach from the Bible, notice how I said it would "presumably preclude him from teaching the Bible as gospel truth"

The Bible quickly falls apart when taken as the living word of God, as many Christians treat it. If taken as parables and allegory it's very powerful. Jesus even talked about that. I can't quote the passage, but it was something along the lines of having to teach from simplified examples because people couldn't understand the true teachings.

The problem is that you can't force people to do exactly what you say under fear of eternal damnation if you give on the "direct word of God" angle.

I have never been to seminary school, but I do know ministers and priests who have been to seminary school. While there are religious services, they are separate from classes. I was under the impression that the Bible is not taught as the gospel truth in class. Well, of course it isn't taught that way in Catholic seminaries because the Bible isn't treated like that in Catholic doctrine, but I know a Presbyterian minister who said her seminary had a far more scholarly approach to the Bible.

And I admire and respect that position. I've got a belief in some higher order and it works for me, but I tried going to few "modern" churches for the fellowship. It's casual dress with live music and a good message, but then it got real.

They talked about taking the Bible literally and used it to explain that they will love homosexuals but they can't get into Heaven no matter how awesome they are. I suppose it's important to note that they never mentioned the whole "camel through the eye of a needle" bit about rich people getting into Heaven, given that a lot of their congregation was very wealthy.

I probably just had ...


I think a lot depends on the minister. The Presbyterian minister does not think gay people are excluded from heaven. I know this for a fact. I met her through her old high school boy friend, who is gay. Her parish actively reaches out to everyone as God's children. Personally, I am not a believer in any religion, but I have met some pastors and priests who do good. I have also known some evil bastards in clerical clothing. Usually, though, the ones working with the poor do seem like better people.
 
2014-01-06 04:30:05 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: Pangea: I probably just had a few bad experiences, but they accumulated into enough to turn me off churches pretty much entirely.

I assume you were going to the 'non-denominational'?


Those churches I identified as "modern" were non-denominational. I grew up around Baptist and Lutheran churches attending some when I was young. I've also been to some Episcopalian services with a girlfriend and they were more about ritual. I went to one Catholic service and realized I had zero interest once I found out their stance on non-catholics.

I thought maybe it would be better at a non-denominational service. Someone suggested I try a unitarian/universalist service, but I was sort of over it by that point. I feel like there can be a spiritual component I can feed without having to buy into dogma.
 
2014-01-06 04:30:40 PM  

A Cave Geek: BojanglesPaladin: Ant: Many atheists know believe they know The Bible backward and forward.

Not saying none do, but the percentage of Atheists I have debated who actually have any familiarity beyond basic Sunday School level is pretty much nil. Sure they can quote something they read in an atheist book or blog or whatever, but ask them something outside their pre-loaded bullet points? Blank.

To be fair, this is exactly the same situation when debating most Christians about their faith as well. Basic Sunday School level at best.

Most Christians I've debated know about as much about science as an elementary school kid.  They think the bible tells them all they need to know.  They quote buzzwords without knowing what any of them actually mean.


I lived it. The ex fiancé's family is dyed-in-the-wool Pentecostal. His younger brother has TOTALLY imbibed in the Kool-Aid.

I come from a science background and I'm crashing along into the health professions. I consider myself fairly knowledgable in the ways of (health-related) science.

To hear my ex future BIL harp about the "evils" of Darwin and the most hilarious, but disturbing germ theory I've ever heard*, it was like talking to a wall. He is the poster child of herp/derp.

*-as voiced by their no-legit-science-background-having very young pastor. This new guy's grandpa was the former pastor, so OF COURSE this guy gets the gig.

/so glad I escaped
 
2014-01-06 04:32:08 PM  

GoldSpider: manbart: Atheism Religion is simply the non-belief in the supernatural

That's only half of atheism religion.  The other half is the sneering derision, forced conversion, and/or execution of anyone who doesn't believe.


Problem?
 
2014-01-06 04:33:37 PM  

A Cave Geek: Most of the people I'm referencing are college educated. Not nearly as many christians know as much about science as they think they do. the christian wing of the libertarian crowd is particularly annoying in that regard. Know nothing about science, think they know everything


That's cool. That's how most of us feel about atheists. It's fine if you don't believe in God, but it gets tiring listening to atheists trying to "poke holes" in the faith without a good grasp of adult theology. It's like a 6th grader telling a college grad that biology is dumb because sometimes brown-eyed parents have blue-eyed children.

/if I hear the "If god is all-knowing and all powerful, then why is there sin?" again, Imma gonna have to punch someone.
 
2014-01-06 04:34:21 PM  
The adventist people I knew personally are actually quite open minded, but I guess evangelism is pretty extreme in US.
 
2014-01-06 04:34:24 PM  

A Cave Geek: Marcus Aurelius: A Cave Geek: [global3.memecdn.com image 850x890]

You're half right.

Dude...snark....You can make any belief system sound ridiculous when you break it down far enough.


You aren't breaking atheism down by using words like 'magically' or 'for no reason what so ever'.
 
2014-01-06 04:35:06 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: lack of warmth: There is physical evidence of massive earthquakes sinking whole cities,


... ummm.... cite?


Ancient cities found off eastern southern Mexico and one found in Lake Peten Itza.  If the Book of Mormon is true, those cities sank the day Jesus died.
 
2014-01-06 04:35:17 PM  
Yo, check this out: atheist guys drive a car like this! (Leans back, as though one hand is on the wheel and his elbow is resting on the windowsill, and sings a tune) Do, do, chh. Do be do, do be do-be-do. (audience laughs) Yeah, but Christian guys, see, they drive a car like this! (Leans forward forward with both hands on the wheel) Dee-da-dee, a-dee-da-dee...
 
2014-01-06 04:36:32 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: A Cave Geek: Most Christians I've debated know about as much about science as an elementary school kid. They think the bible tells them all they need to know. They quote buzzwords without knowing what any of them actually mean.

I think the problem there is that your peers are just morons. Their religion is a secondary characteristic. Most people in this country are Christian, regardless of intellect, income level, or education. Of you WANT to talk to intelligent educated Christians, go find some intelligent, educated PEOPLE.

You might as well say that most brown-haired people you talk to know about as much about science as an elementary school kid.


I was deeply shocked when I moved into an area at the top of the Bible Belt and found out that people with advanced degrees thought evolution was a heresy. I had an engineer say that evolution couldn't be real because there was no way it could account for the diversity of life on the planet. I never thought I would have to screen my physicians for a basic understanding of evolution, but I do now when insurance forced me to change doctors.
 
2014-01-06 04:37:13 PM  
 
2014-01-06 04:37:56 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Latinwolf: Well there is an Atheist church according to this thread:

http://www.fark.com/comments/8087692

I don't click on links to fark.


Cop out
 
2014-01-06 04:39:17 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: A Cave Geek: Most of the people I'm referencing are college educated. Not nearly as many christians know as much about science as they think they do. the christian wing of the libertarian crowd is particularly annoying in that regard. Know nothing about science, think they know everything

That's cool. That's how most of us feel about atheists. It's fine if you don't believe in God, but it gets tiring listening to atheists trying to "poke holes" in the faith without a good grasp of adult theology. It's like a 6th grader telling a college grad that biology is dumb because sometimes brown-eyed parents have blue-eyed children.

/if I hear the "If god is all-knowing and all powerful, then why is there sin?" again, Imma gonna have to punch someone.


I respect religion, so long as it's not treated as 'on par' with science for explaining how the world works.  Religion is great for some areas of life, for SOME people.  But it's not for everyone.  The more people know about how the world works, the less they tend to believe in religion.

Personally I don't need to poke holes in Christianity.  It's not my belief system, so as long as you're not trying to cram it down my throat, or pass laws that I have to follow based on your faith, I don't personally care how many holes the belief system has.
 
2014-01-06 04:42:28 PM  

Pangea: I thought maybe it would be better at a non-denominational service. Someone suggested I try a unitarian/universalist service, but I was sort of over it by that point. I feel like there can be a spiritual component I can feed without having to buy into dogma.


Non-Denominationals are probably not going to give you what you want, and they are almost all weak theologically and lack internal consistency (IMHO). You should probably try a Unitarian Church if you want spirituality without dogma, but be prepared for a lot of free-form, whatever works for you, all roads lead to Rome vague guidance.

gimmegimme: There's absolutely no data to suggest that Christians know less about science and religion than non-Christians.


Sigh. Miss the point much? Show me the same data for hair color? Or State? Or political affiliation? Or BMI index?

A survey on views of evolution is not the same thing as an assessment of scientific knowledge. (would you like to see a survey from the 70s about the coming of the next ice age based on the prevailing science?)

And without additional info (like what were the questions and what was gauged 'correct') the second survey results doesn't mean much.

But even if they did, you still miss the point.
 
2014-01-06 04:43:03 PM  

lack of warmth: Ancient cities found off eastern southern Mexico and one found in Lake Peten Itza.


ummm... cite?
 
2014-01-06 04:43:21 PM  
Dude wants to get laid and smoke some ganja
 
2014-01-06 04:44:46 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: Pangea: I thought maybe it would be better at a non-denominational service. Someone suggested I try a unitarian/universalist service, but I was sort of over it by that point. I feel like there can be a spiritual component I can feed without having to buy into dogma.

Non-Denominationals are probably not going to give you what you want, and they are almost all weak theologically and lack internal consistency (IMHO). You should probably try a Unitarian Church if you want spirituality without dogma, but be prepared for a lot of free-form, whatever works for you, all roads lead to Rome vague guidance.



Thanks for genuine suggestion. I'll give it a shot.
 
2014-01-06 04:45:35 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: lack of warmth: Ancient cities found off eastern southern Mexico and one found in Lake Peten Itza.

ummm... cite?


It must be in the Word Salad Bill of Materials(TM).
/Don't plagiarize, now.
 
2014-01-06 04:48:34 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: A Cave Geek: Most of the people I'm referencing are college educated. Not nearly as many christians know as much about science as they think they do. the christian wing of the libertarian crowd is particularly annoying in that regard. Know nothing about science, think they know everything

That's cool. That's how most of us feel about atheists. It's fine if you don't believe in God, but it gets tiring listening to atheists trying to "poke holes" in the faith without a good grasp of adult theology. It's like a 6th grader telling a college grad that biology is dumb because sometimes brown-eyed parents have blue-eyed children.

/if I hear the "If god is all-knowing and all powerful, then why is there sin?" again, Imma gonna have to punch someone.


Preach it brother! You'll be happy to hear that goes both ways.

If I hear the "If we're descended from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?" question ... yeah. cockpunch.

so live and let live sez I. But please, stop legislating from your bible. It's great that you find peace etc. with your religion, but it'd be great if you just keep all that to yourself. kthxby.
 
2014-01-06 04:49:37 PM  

Latinwolf: Satanic_Hamster: Latinwolf: Well there is an Atheist church according to this thread:

http://www.fark.com/comments/8087692

I don't click on links to fark.

Cop out


d3gtl9l2a4fn1j.cloudfront.net
 
2014-01-06 04:49:52 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: lack of warmth: Ancient cities found off eastern southern Mexico and one found in Lake Peten Itza.

ummm... cite?


Seconded.
 
2014-01-06 04:50:44 PM  

A Cave Geek: I respect religion, so long as it's not treated as 'on par' with science for explaining how the world works.


Why wouldn't it? Religion is to Science as Music is to sculpture. One is not 'better' than the other, and it's good to have both.

They are different frameworks by which to grasp the cosmos. If you try to use a hammer as a screwdriver, you will have poor results, but they are both perfectly valid tools. When you are building, you will have better results with both tools than only one.

DeaH: I had an engineer say that evolution couldn't be real because there was no way it could account for the diversity of life on the planet. I never thought I would have to screen my physicians for a basic understanding of evolution, but I do now when insurance forced me to change doctors.


Why would that matter?

I have no idea whatsoever if my doctor 'believes' in evolution. It's never even occurred to me to ask. I care if he is a competent physician, but since neither he or I will be personally evolving during the time we work together, I can't imagine it matters in the least. Anymore than it matters if he is an atheist or a budhist or whether he believes in werewolves.
 
2014-01-06 04:52:52 PM  

Finger51: But please, stop legislating from your bible. It's great that you find peace etc. with your religion, but it'd be great if you just keep all that to yourself. kthxby


I have no idea who you are talking to, or why you posted it in response to my comments which say absolutely nothing about any of that.

Finger51: You'll be happy to hear that goes both ways.If I hear the "If we're descended from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?" question ... yeah. cockpunch.


Yeah. I STARTED by saying it goes both ways.
 
2014-01-06 04:59:02 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: Why would that matter?

I have no idea whatsoever if my doctor 'believes' in evolution. It's never even occurred to me to ask. I care if he is a competent physician, but since neither he or I will be personally evolving during the time we work together, I can't imagine it matters in the least. Anymore than it matters if he is an atheist or a budhist or whether he believes in werewolves.


A competent physician would understand and 'believe' in the science that proves that organisms change and adapt to their environment.  Someone who denies evolution IS a poor physician.
 
2014-01-06 05:01:21 PM  

ultraholland: EvilEgg: How does one "live like an atheist"?

Eating newborn babies is a start.


Roasted in the. And of the almighty Atheismo.
 
2014-01-06 05:04:35 PM  

Finger51: BojanglesPaladin: A Cave Geek: Most of the people I'm referencing are college educated. Not nearly as many christians know as much about science as they think they do. the christian wing of the libertarian crowd is particularly annoying in that regard. Know nothing about science, think they know everything

That's cool. That's how most of us feel about atheists. It's fine if you don't believe in God, but it gets tiring listening to atheists trying to "poke holes" in the faith without a good grasp of adult theology. It's like a 6th grader telling a college grad that biology is dumb because sometimes brown-eyed parents have blue-eyed children.

/if I hear the "If god is all-knowing and all powerful, then why is there sin?" again, Imma gonna have to punch someone.

Preach it brother! You'll be happy to hear that goes both ways.

If I hear the "If we're descended from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?" question ... yeah. cockpunch.

so live and let live sez I. But please, stop legislating from your bible. It's great that you find peace etc. with your religion, but it'd be great if you just keep all that to yourself. kthxby.


I've been faced with that one, and rather than a cockpunch (difficult since it was a woman), it was much simpler to explain that similar to how she is related to her cousins through her grandparents, and looks similar to some cousins but different from others, we are related to chimpanzees through some very,very ancient great, great, great (repeat ad nauseum), grandparents.

Surprisingly, it was accepted with a "Why did no one ever explain it to me that way!" response rather than continued intractableness and unwillingness to learn.
 
2014-01-06 05:07:55 PM  

gimmegimme: BojanglesPaladin: Ant: Many atheists know believe they know The Bible backward and forward.

Not saying none do, but the percentage of Atheists I have debated who actually have any familiarity beyond basic Sunday School level is pretty much nil. Sure they can quote something they read in an atheist book or blog or whatever, but ask them something outside their pre-loaded bullet points? Blank.

To be fair, this is exactly the same situation when debating most Christians about their faith as well. Basic Sunday School level at best.

Agreed.  I can't stand when some neckbearded militant atheist points out that some random Christian who believes God's teaching about homosexuality in Leviticus is going to Hell for eating shrimp.


why is that?
 
2014-01-06 05:11:55 PM  

Pangea: meanmutton: Christians believe that God gives individuals free will to choose between Heaven and Hell.

[25.media.tumblr.com image 850x566]


A Cave Geek: BojanglesPaladin: Why would that matter?

I have no idea whatsoever if my doctor 'believes' in evolution. It's never even occurred to me to ask. I care if he is a competent physician, but since neither he or I will be personally evolving during the time we work together, I can't imagine it matters in the least. Anymore than it matters if he is an atheist or a budhist or whether he believes in werewolves.

A competent physician would understand and 'believe' in the science that proves that organisms change and adapt to their environment.  Someone who denies evolution IS a poor physician.


Cause you need to understand evolution to write me a prescription for gout?
 
2014-01-06 05:12:02 PM  

A Cave Geek: A competent physician would understand and 'believe' in the science that proves that organisms change and adapt to their environment. Someone who denies evolution IS a poor physician.


I would say you have an imperfect understanding of the theory of evolution and its role in science and biology if you believe this to be true. A medical physician has no real need to understand, much less accept evolutionary theory in order to competently diagnose and treat physical ailments. It is also worth noting that one can fully embrace and accept micro-evolution (the changing of species over time) without accepting macro-evolution (speciation or evolutionary divergence of species).

But either way, it's like saying your pediatrician must accept Freudian psychoanalysis.

But hey. It's your doctor. If you choose your physician based on whether they  share your political affiliation or religion, it's your call.
 
2014-01-06 05:13:20 PM  

shtychkn: Agreed.  I can't stand when some neckbearded militant atheist points out that some random Christian who believes God's teaching about homosexuality in Leviticus is going to Hell for eating shrimp.

why is that?


Because being reminded that they've eaten disgusting pink leggy-wormlike thingies is infuriating?
/I wouldn't know.
 
2014-01-06 05:14:18 PM  

Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: See, the thing is, just being a atheist insults people of religiosity. You've called them idiots as soon as you tell them you're an atheist. Worse, you've called their mama an idiot too (because you generally don't get religious people without them having religious parents).

People hate being called idiots.


 Unless you are a total whack-job (and sadly, that's not as rare a thing as it once was)  then telling me that you are an atheist is a mere statement of fact, no different than telling me you are a Jew or a Buddhist, or a worshiper of the ancient Sumerian gods.  Religion is not a thing that can, in the end, be proven in the same way that we can prove 2+2=4, and some people don't make that 'leap of faith' as it were.

Now, telling me that you are an atheist because you refuse to believe in "children's fairy stories" is a bit insulting, implying that I and every other one of the billions of religious people though out history were simplistic idiots.

It's not the fact, it's the tone.
 
2014-01-06 05:16:45 PM  
The author set up a GoFundMe page for the professor with a goal of raising $5000.

Here's the latest results:

$11,726 raised by 531 people in 15 hours.


Best quote:

"Atheists don't pray, we take real action." - Jay Naphas
 
2014-01-06 05:17:47 PM  

rdu_voyager: "Atheists don't pray, we take real action." - Jay Naphas


thegospelcoalition.org
 
2014-01-06 05:19:05 PM  
letrole is late.
 
2014-01-06 05:22:18 PM  
Well, we were all born Atheists.
 
2014-01-06 05:23:21 PM  

LoneWolf343: Personally, I don't know how my old Bible professor kept his job at my college since he would say openly "Alcohol ain't going to send you to hell."


It's because the rest of the faculty were (possibly secret) drunks.
 
2014-01-06 05:23:41 PM  

DarkSoulNoHope: TheOnion: How does one live like an atheist? Stop praying and going to church?

Stay home on sunday (or Saturday, since he's a Seventh Day guy), watch football, protest another public nativity scene when the Christians want to play "We're the best religion and we're going to prove it by displays like this."


Weird, so they believe if you go back enough sundays you'll hit one that coincides with the moment God decided to create the world? They actually built their whole church on a premise that is provable historical garbage? I get jesus, because at least it is historically ambiguous.
 
2014-01-06 05:26:32 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: They are different frameworks by which to grasp the cosmos. If you try to use a hammer as a screwdriver, you will have poor results, but they are both perfectly valid tools. When you are building, you will have better results with both tools than only one.


Not really. One is a hammer (a.k.a. science. Belief via evidence) The other? Well you'll just need to have faith that it is a screwdriver (a.k.a. religion. Belief via faith)

Not the same.
 
2014-01-06 05:32:31 PM  
WTF does "live like an atheist" mean?  I mean, I'm an atheist (well, I'm trending more towards agnostic lately, just because of my own egocentrism), and as far as I can gather, the only major differences in my life are that I sleep in on Sundays and I don't go around telling everybody "Jesus is the reason for the season" every December.
 
2014-01-06 05:37:08 PM  

Pants full of macaroni!!: TheOnion: How does one live like an atheist? Stop praying and going to church?

You also have to loudly inform everyone within hearing range that you are an atheist, and sue anyone who puts up any kind of religious display.

Or so I've been told.


I've been doing it all wrong
 
2014-01-06 05:37:38 PM  

Whodat: Given that theology is "is the systematic and study of the concepts of God and the nature of religious truths" and that atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of those concepts and beliefs, I can understand him being let go from a Theological Seminary. His stance is akin to going to basketball camp and rejecting the concept of all sports yet expecting to be able to still play the game and get paid to do it.


Fark_Guy_Rob: Ummm - this is crap....the guy's entire career is based around teaching and advising in religious matters.  Now he's spending a year 'as an atheist' - whatever that means.  To most people, that means he doesn't believe in God.  And that is contradictory to his career.

I'm a software developer.  If I decide to spend a year 'Not using Technology' I'd expect to be fired too.


There is no real-world reason that a similarly knowledgeable and qualified nonbeliever wouldn't be able to function *indistinguishably* from a believer in any job, including that one.  Same goes for a basketball coach/player who believes that pro sports are ridiculous, for that matter. There isnothing inherent to atheism which is analogous to "not using technology."
 
2014-01-06 05:38:11 PM  
Atheism is fine when you're younger, many find relsigion as they get older. not me.
 
2014-01-06 05:38:54 PM  

Finger51: BojanglesPaladin: They are different frameworks by which to grasp the cosmos. If you try to use a hammer as a screwdriver, you will have poor results, but they are both perfectly valid tools. When you are building, you will have better results with both tools than only one.

Not really. One is a hammer (a.k.a. science. Belief via evidence) The other? Well you'll just need to have faith that it is a screwdriver (a.k.a. religion. Belief via faith)

Not the same.


Science is the only tool for understanding the physical world. As for human emotions, science is not all that great yet so religion is about on par. However, science always advances while religion usually tries to hold people back.
 
2014-01-06 05:40:36 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Vangor: Satanic_Hamster: Every night, I put a few cd's into the turn table, open a beer, and play Counter Strike.  Does that count?

You still have CDs? And yeah.

Of course I still have cds.  You trust digital distribution?


well, i buried some DVDs of my music collection behind my old house - but aside from that, i'll stick with media i can swallow and put in the washer without harm

(1 64gb microsd = 100 or so cds)
 
2014-01-06 05:41:59 PM  

Finger51: Not really. One is a hammer (a.k.a. science. Belief via evidence) The other? Well you'll just need to have faith that it is a screwdriver (a.k.a. religion. Belief via faith)Not the same.


Unsurprising that you do not understand. Unsuprising that you feel the need to assert that your hammer and your hammer alone is the only valid tool.

But by all means, feel free to live a hammer only life. I have a hammer too, and I like it just fine. It does everything I would expect a hammer to do. We both have fine hammers, and with them we can easily tackle all hammer related tasks.

But I also have a screwdriver, and I find it serves me well for things that a hammer just can't help with, or just does it better. Having never used a screwdriver, or even seen the need for one, I can't expect you to grasp its utility.

But whereas I am perfectly happy for you in your hammer only life, I find it puzzling that you insist that my screwdriver is not really a tool. One would think that *I* would know better than you (who have no screwdriver at all) whether the screwdriver works for me. Even more curious that someone like you without a screwdriver would insist that the majority of his fellow man, who also have screwdrivers of various kinds, are somehow mistaken in their use of a tool that serves them well.

LoneWolf343: Personally, I don't know how my old Bible professor kept his job at my college since he would say openly "Alcohol ain't going to send you to hell."


I'll give you a hint: If someone studied the bible, what would they find was Jesus' FIRST miracle?
 
2014-01-06 05:42:00 PM  

Begoggle: letrole is late.


Who killed him?

/grumpycat.jpg
 
2014-01-06 05:45:56 PM  

HeartBurnKid: WTF does "live like an atheist" mean?  I mean, I'm an atheist (well, I'm trending more towards agnostic lately, just because of my own egocentrism), and as far as I can gather, the only major differences in my life are that I sleep in on Sundays and I don't go around telling everybody "Jesus is the reason for the season" every December.


If only more English words rhymed with "Mithras". Beyond "ass", I mean.

Oh, wait...

4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-01-06 05:46:22 PM  

Whodat: Given that theology is "is the systematic and study of the concepts of God and the nature of religious truths" and that atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of those concepts and beliefs, I can understand him being let go from a Theological Seminary.


Merriam-Webster defines theology as "the study of religious faith, practice, and experience".

His stance is akin to going to basketball camp and rejecting the concept of all sports yet expecting to be able to still play the game and get paid to do it.

It's more like not being a professional athlete yet expecting to still work as a sportswriter. Or studying cancer in mice without having cancer, or being a mouse.
 
2014-01-06 05:48:11 PM  

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: There isnothing inherent to atheism which is analogous to "not using technology."


I would say that "Not believing in God" in a field predicated on teaching "How to believe and worship God" is one.
 
2014-01-06 05:48:36 PM  
Also, I am juvenile enough to snicker at this:

static.fjcdn.com

/Thor has better box office numbers, frankly, and gets to schtupp a nice Jewish girl...from space!
 
2014-01-06 05:49:55 PM  
if this guy is truly on a spiritual quest then more power to him, however I wonder if it's more a publicity stunt from an AW looking for their next book deal.

My 2 cents on religion. Believe in whatever you wish or nothing at all for all I care.  As long as it's not being forced upon me or others I'm more than willing to let you go about your business.  Since I live in the US and it's mostly Christian I am basing my opinions on the people I have interacted or heard about.  Most Christians are  relatively cool about their religion an don't care about yours or lack thereof.  Most just give me a double take when I say I'm an atheist and shrug.  There are a few assholes that feel they need to save me and leave 'Good News' on my desk everyday and wanting me to go to their church.

Any group of size though it's the ones that feel their way is the only way that hurts them along with others and where I put those irritating people.  My personal opinion is that this group has increased in size over the past couple decades and has been browbeating other Christians for their tolerance.  This to me seems a failing strategy, as although working atm it will not work in the long run as we are becoming more accepting and tolerant of other ideas/beliefs all the time.  Not fast enough for me, but in my lifetime I have witnessed vast changes to the way blacks, women, Asians, LGBT, and other religions are treated.
 
2014-01-06 05:53:13 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: A medical physician has no real need to understand, much less accept evolutionary theory in order to competently diagnose and treat physical ailments


In my experience physicians perform poorly delivering competent diagnoses, I have had much better results goggling and/or consulting nurse practitioners with very few exceptions in that regard.

I can see clearly how rejection of scientific theory by a physician maybe indicative of attitudes and judgements that would adversely affect his ability to competently diagnose.
 
2014-01-06 05:59:20 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: Finger51: Not really. One is a hammer (a.k.a. science. Belief via evidence) The other? Well you'll just need to have faith that it is a screwdriver (a.k.a. religion. Belief via faith)Not the same.

Unsurprising that you do not understand. Unsuprising that you feel the need to assert that your hammer and your hammer alone is the only valid tool.

But by all means, feel free to live a hammer only life. I have a hammer too, and I like it just fine. It does everything I would expect a hammer to do. We both have fine hammers, and with them we can easily tackle all hammer related tasks.

But I also have a screwdriver, and I find it serves me well for things that a hammer just can't help with, or just does it better. Having never used a screwdriver, or even seen the need for one, I can't expect you to grasp its utility.

But whereas I am perfectly happy for you in your hammer only life, I find it puzzling that you insist that my screwdriver is not really a tool. One would think that *I* would know better than you (who have no screwdriver at all) whether the screwdriver works for me. Even more curious that someone like you without a screwdriver would insist that the majority of his fellow man, who also have screwdrivers of various kinds, are somehow mistaken in their use of a tool that serves them well.

LoneWolf343: Personally, I don't know how my old Bible professor kept his job at my college since he would say openly "Alcohol ain't going to send you to hell."

I'll give you a hint: If someone studied the bible, what would they find was Jesus' FIRST miracle?


What we non believers tend to worry about is huge numbers of people who believe in things they have no cause to believe in. That in itself may not seem scary but many of these beliefs have to do with harming or bothering people who don't believe. Kind of like really annoying salesman who might just gang up and kill you for not buying their stuff. Then, of course, there are the constant wars over whose god is right. Also, most religious people are determined that their beliefs be turned into laws that are inflicted on everyone, even those who don't believe. They don't seem to realize that by doing so they pretty much negate the whole 'faith' thing but hypocrisy is one of the trademarks of religion.

Of course YOU may be an enlightened believer (or at least think you are) in which case no one is really interested in bothering you.
 
2014-01-06 06:00:17 PM  

zepillin: In my experience physicians perform poorly delivering competent diagnoses, I have had much better results goggling and/or consulting nurse practitioners with very few exceptions in that regard.

 I can see clearly how rejection of scientific theory by a physician maybe indicative of attitudes and judgements that would adversely affect his ability to competently diagnose.

I won't argue your experience with doctors' diagnostic skill, but I'd bet money that most of them embrace evolution and that doesn't seem to have granted them any special skill in their job.

I can't question what YOU can clearly see, but I'm not seeing any link between evolutionary theory and the diagnosis and treatment of physical ailments. A physician doctor simply does not deal with evolutionary matters.

As I said, this is the functional equivalent of evaluating a pediatrician based on their unequivocal acceptance or dismissal of Freudian psychoanalysis.
 
2014-01-06 06:01:51 PM  

hitlersbrain: That in itself may not seem scary but many of these beliefs have to do with harming or bothering people who don't believe. Kind of like really annoying salesman who might just gang up and kill you for not buying their stuff.


Ah. So you DO believe in mythical and imaginary stuff.
 
2014-01-06 06:17:00 PM  
.

BojanglesPaladin: I won't argue your experience with doctors' diagnostic skill, but I'd bet money that most of them embrace evolution and that doesn't seem to have granted them any special skill in their job.

I can't question what YOU can clearly see, but I'm not seeing any link between evolutionary theory and the diagnosis and treatment of physical ailments. A physician doctor simply does not deal with evolutionary matters.

As I said, this is the functional equivalent of evaluating a pediatrician based on their unequivocal acceptance or dismissal of Freudian psychoanalysis.


Good points well taken.

Jung rules!
 
2014-01-06 06:19:50 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: DeaH: I had an engineer say that evolution couldn't be real because there was no way it could account for the diversity of life on the planet. I never thought I would have to screen my physicians for a basic understanding of evolution, but I do now when insurance forced me to change doctors.

Why would that matter?

I have no idea whatsoever if my doctor 'believes' in evolution. It's never even occurred to me to ask. I care if he is a competent physician, but since neither he or I will be personally evolving during the time we work together, I can't imagine it matters in the least. Anymore than it matters if he is an atheist or a budhist or whether he believes in werewolves.


It matters because modern medicines are based on evolutionary science. If a doctor thinks that's hooey, I do not want that doctor prescribing me drugs. On some level, a physician ought to be a scientist. One is a very bad scientist, indeed, if one believes the Genesis section of the Bible takes precedence over biological science.
 
2014-01-06 06:24:44 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: A Cave Geek: A competent physician would understand and 'believe' in the science that proves that organisms change and adapt to their environment. Someone who denies evolution IS a poor physician.

I would say you have an imperfect understanding of the theory of evolution and its role in science and biology if you believe this to be true. A medical physician has no real need to understand, much less accept evolutionary theory in order to competently diagnose and treat physical ailments. It is also worth noting that one can fully embrace and accept micro-evolution (the changing of species over time) without accepting macro-evolution (speciation or evolutionary divergence of species).

But either way, it's like saying your pediatrician must accept Freudian psychoanalysis.

But hey. It's your doctor. If you choose your physician based on whether they  share your political affiliation or religion, it's your call.


Evolution is neither politics nor religion. It is the underlying basis for all biology. Doctors who are bad biologists are bad doctors. The fact that you think evolution falls under politics or religion is quite telling.
 
2014-01-06 06:50:03 PM  

Pangea: BojanglesPaladin: Pangea: I probably just had a few bad experiences, but they accumulated into enough to turn me off churches pretty much entirely.

I assume you were going to the 'non-denominational'?

Those churches I identified as "modern" were non-denominational. I grew up around Baptist and Lutheran churches attending some when I was young. I've also been to some Episcopalian services with a girlfriend and they were more about ritual. I went to one Catholic service and realized I had zero interest once I found out their stance on non-catholics.

I thought maybe it would be better at a non-denominational service. Someone suggested I try a unitarian/universalist service, but I was sort of over it by that point. I feel like there can be a spiritual component I can feed without having to buy into dogma.


Deism?
 
2014-01-06 06:50:12 PM  

Gough: Satanic_Hamster: Captain Darling: Not teaching at a seminary sounds like part of living like an atheist.

Yep.  Also, how exactly does one live as an atheist?  I don't go to atheist lectures or clubs, apparently I'm doing it wrong?

Your absence from the meetings has been noted, believe me.


I think you mean, "DON'T believe me."

Was that a simple mistake, or atheist heresy?
 
2014-01-06 06:54:37 PM  

DeaH: BojanglesPaladin: A Cave Geek: A competent physician would understand and 'believe' in the science that proves that organisms change and adapt to their environment. Someone who denies evolution IS a poor physician.

I would say you have an imperfect understanding of the theory of evolution and its role in science and biology if you believe this to be true. A medical physician has no real need to understand, much less accept evolutionary theory in order to competently diagnose and treat physical ailments. It is also worth noting that one can fully embrace and accept micro-evolution (the changing of species over time) without accepting macro-evolution (speciation or evolutionary divergence of species).

But either way, it's like saying your pediatrician must accept Freudian psychoanalysis.

But hey. It's your doctor. If you choose your physician based on whether they  share your political affiliation or religion, it's your call.

Evolution is neither politics nor religion. It is the underlying basis for all biology. Doctors who are bad biologists are bad doctors. The fact that you think evolution falls under politics or religion is quite telling.


I think that there is much more to being a good doctor than a complete understanding of biology.  I look at doctors more as technicians of medicine (or engineers) and hopefully humanitarians rather than scientists. Of course modern medicine is informed by biology, but so is modern electrical engineering informed by physics.

They guy designing the circuitry on my computer's processor doesn't need to know the quantum mechanics of the molecules within it.  Likewise my anesthesiologist does not need to know who  Ardipithecus was in order to administer the correct dosage.  My primary care physician doesn't need to understand gene flow or genetic drift in order to diagnose a staph infection.

On the whole the study of medicine is an evolutionary study, but the giving of care is done by care givers, not scientists.
 
2014-01-06 06:55:52 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: Monkeyfark Ridiculous: There isnothing inherent to atheism which is analogous to "not using technology."

I would say that "Not believing in God" in a field predicated on teaching "How to believe and worship God" is one.


If faith is truly a private matter, it cannot be taught. And I don't believe in gods or supernatural beings, but being raised Catholic, I certainly explain its rites, cultures, and the desired thought patterns, and can (have) appeared quite observant to strangers when the need arises. I don't believe in Vulcans either, but I know enough about Trek lore I could educate the interested on them as well. I aerospace engineers who don't believe in the moon landing hoax, but understand how the evidence can be interpreted to support such conclusions.
 
2014-01-06 06:56:15 PM  

ampoliros: Just to be clear, you can (pretend to) be an atheist and be employed by a religious organization. That's not really a big deal.  What is a big deal is (pretending to) be an atheist and be employed by a religious organization to teach religion.

If you're in accounting or IT at a religious institution and someone says, "Do you believe in God?" your answer has no bearing on your ability to do your job.  If you're a religion teacher and a student asks what you think of the material you're teaching and you're answer is, "It's a nice story with lessons we can learn but a story none-the-less" then you've got some issues that arise.

That said, the school seems pretty but-hurt over this and they reasons they give are not religious in nature (they even praise it's merits). They're simply worried about funding. That's something they need to worry about for sure but it just seems wrong to do so.


My good ampoliros, there is nothing more Christian than worrying about funding.
 
2014-01-06 07:08:11 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: A Cave Geek: A competent physician would understand and 'believe' in the science that proves that organisms change and adapt to their environment. Someone who denies evolution IS a poor physician.

I would say you have an imperfect understanding of the theory of evolution and its role in science and biology if you believe this to be true. A medical physician has no real need to understand, much less accept evolutionary theory in order to competently diagnose and treat physical ailments. It is also worth noting that one can fully embrace and accept micro-evolution (the changing of species over time) without accepting macro-evolution (speciation or evolutionary divergence of species).


Hehe. That's cute, you think you can distinguish between micro-evolution and macro-evolution using something as imperfect and fluid as "speciation". Species are just naming scientists use for shorthand... species have jumped entire taxonomic trees before, and it's far from a hard delineation like you seem to think it is. Microevolution and macroevolution are the exact same thing, only operating on different timescales. If you can't conceive of something larger than a few thousand years, then no wonder you think there's a difference between the two.

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB902.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microevolution#Origin_and_Misuse_of_the _t erm
 
2014-01-06 07:19:57 PM  
Buttsex. Lots and lots of buttsex.
 
2014-01-06 07:20:20 PM  
What, no religious tolerance?
 
2014-01-06 07:23:07 PM  
Has anyone been able to answer whether or not this was going to impact his duties as a professor?  Personally, it sounds to me like the kind of thing you could do as a research project while on sabbatical.

Also, the situation amuses me, not because his school fired him or because they acted like dicks, but because it's just so situationally absurd.  It's like the plot of a bad sitcom.
 
2014-01-06 07:29:18 PM  
BojanglesPaladin: Finger51: Not really. One is a hammer (a.k.a. science. Belief via evidence) The other? Well you'll just need to have faith that it is a screwdriver (a.k.a. religion. Belief via faith)Not the same.

Unsurprising that you do not understand. Unsuprising that you feel the need to assert that your hammer and your hammer alone is the only valid tool.

when the two choices are between science and religion then yes, science is a much much much more valid tool.

 But I also have a screwdriver, and I find it serves me well for things that a hammer just can't help with, or just does it better. Having never used a screwdriver, or even seen the need for one, I can't expect you to grasp its utility.
If by 'Utility' you mean I have no need for deluding myself into belief without evidence (which is what your faithful screwdriver really boils down to) then you are correct. If you have need for your 'tool' (faith) then I hope it works out for you. And I really mean that, as I stated earlier- I'm happy that religion brings people peace/solace. Do I think that peace/solace is as you stated "perfectly valid" ? No. I don't.

But whereas I am perfectly happy for you in your hammer only life, I find it puzzling that you insist that my screwdriver is not really a tool.
Parsing here, but my intent was to posit that your tool relies on faith- your screwdriver is a tool certainly, but because it depends on faith it's validity is not "Perfect" as your comment stated. If I have a broken leg, morphine is going to make it feel better- but it won't heal it. I think your tool is like morphine. It's really good  at making you feel better but it's not going to 'cure' you of your broken leg.

One would think that *I* would know better than you (who have no screwdriver at all) whether the screwdriver works for me.
I never said or implied your screwdriver didn't work for you. In fact I am happy that you have a tool for your loose screws. I don't have any loose screws so I don't feel any particular need for that tool.

Even more curious that someone like you without a screwdriver would insist that the majority of his fellow man, who also have screwdrivers of various kinds, are somehow mistaken in their use of a tool that serves them well.
I find it curious that you think I said anything of the sort. The closest I can see that I said that one tool is evidence based and (implied) more valid, the other is faith based. How you claim that I've judged others as 'mistaken' is ... curious.

You are the one who brought up the validity of these tools. "they are both perfectly valid tools" And I disagree. The definition of valid is (of an argument or point) having a sound basis in logic or fact; reasonable or cogent. And I do not believe your tool meets that requirement. It may be a tool which has worked for you, but these two tools are not comparable as one of them does not meet the requirements to be 'valid'. Religion's basis on logic or fact is NOT sound, reasonable or cogent.

But keep on using your screwdriver if it helps you. You might want to ease up on the condescending tone, you sound like one of those rabid atheists.
 
2014-01-06 07:33:02 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: Monkeyfark Ridiculous: There isnothing inherent to atheism which is analogous to "not using technology."

I would say that "Not believing in God" in a field predicated on teaching "How to believe and worship God" is one.



How so?
 
2014-01-06 07:41:02 PM  
This guy living like an athiest for a year is a lot like Jesus 'dying' for the sins of all...

...except Jesus came back after three days, redefining 'death'...

...and Jesus is coming back to life a second time (supposedly), therefore once more showing that death, at least for him, isn't permanent...

Being dead for just a weekend, to me, is like offering to pay all of someone's bills and then putting a stop payment on the check - you either commit or just farking forget it.  Same deal here.
 
2014-01-06 07:49:06 PM  
ScaryBottles: A Cave Geek: [global3.memecdn.com image 850x890]

[media.tumblr.com image 500x282]

I bet that goes over great with all the wannabe psdeudo-intellectual libertarians sisterfarkers on your facebook wall doesn't it.

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."

Neil deGrasse Tyson Rand Paul-


FTFY
 
2014-01-06 07:49:27 PM  

Premeditated_Road_Rage: Being dead for just a weekend, to me, is like offering to pay all of someone's bills and then putting a stop payment on the check - you either commit or just farking forget it. Same deal here.


Dude was faking it the whole time. "Hey Dad, let the monkeys flail and flagellate for a few days then zap me back upstairs. LOLSUCKERS!"
 
2014-01-06 07:54:33 PM  

Premeditated_Road_Rage: Being dead for just a weekend, to me, is like offering to pay all of someone's bills and then putting a stop payment on the check - you either commit or just farking forget it.  Same deal here.


But he died again after forty days, so it's all good.  (Ascention, assumption, translation: call it what you will, you go up to Heaven and you stay there, it means you're dead.  You don't leave behind a corpse, that just means you're extra dead.)
 
2014-01-06 07:56:10 PM  

Pitabred: BojanglesPaladin: A Cave Geek: A competent physician would understand and 'believe' in the science that proves that organisms change and adapt to their environment. Someone who denies evolution IS a poor physician.

I would say you have an imperfect understanding of the theory of evolution and its role in science and biology if you believe this to be true. A medical physician has no real need to understand, much less accept evolutionary theory in order to competently diagnose and treat physical ailments. It is also worth noting that one can fully embrace and accept micro-evolution (the changing of species over time) without accepting macro-evolution (speciation or evolutionary divergence of species).

Hehe. That's cute, you think you can distinguish between micro-evolution and macro-evolution using something as imperfect and fluid as "speciation". Species are just naming scientists use for shorthand... species have jumped entire taxonomic trees before, and it's far from a hard delineation like you seem to think it is. Microevolution and macroevolution are the exact same thing, only operating on different timescales. If you can't conceive of something larger than a few thousand years, then no wonder you think there's a difference between the two.

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB902.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microevolution#Origin_and_Misuse_of_the _t erm


While true, I think BJP makes a valid point. You aren't necessarily a bad physician if you are a creationist. Suffering from cognitive dissonance, for sure, but my first hand experience with my long-time creationist friend, they make a distinction between what we know and see today vs. what we can know about the past. It's not a rational bit of logic, just an acknowledgement that you could potentially be quite a fine doctor and still be a creationist.
 
2014-01-06 08:09:49 PM  
A true atheist priest would lick the snake blood slowly off of the bared stomach of a supine priestess mounted on the largest table in the seminary residence hall at least weekly, so it sounds like he was doing it right.
 
2014-01-06 08:12:24 PM  

DarkSoulNoHope: TheOnion: How does one live like an atheist? Stop praying and going to church?

Stay home on sunday (or Saturday, since he's a Seventh Day guy), watch football, protest another public nativity scene


Atheists don't protest Nativity scenes, a handful of attention-seeking douches do, Atheist or not.

The guy is ironically off to a great start: he learned a big lesson right away. The whole "War on Christians/Christmas" thingy is sheer BS, and now he knows it.  I'm guessing that the guy thought he would do some Jebus version of "Black Like Me". I guess he never read about the aftermath of that book: The reporter received death threats and moved his family to Mexico for a while.
 
2014-01-06 08:15:36 PM  

theknuckler_33: Pitabred: BojanglesPaladin: A Cave Geek: A competent physician would understand and 'believe' in the science that proves that organisms change and adapt to their environment. Someone who denies evolution IS a poor physician.

I would say you have an imperfect understanding of the theory of evolution and its role in science and biology if you believe this to be true. A medical physician has no real need to understand, much less accept evolutionary theory in order to competently diagnose and treat physical ailments. It is also worth noting that one can fully embrace and accept micro-evolution (the changing of species over time) without accepting macro-evolution (speciation or evolutionary divergence of species).

Hehe. That's cute, you think you can distinguish between micro-evolution and macro-evolution using something as imperfect and fluid as "speciation". Species are just naming scientists use for shorthand... species have jumped entire taxonomic trees before, and it's far from a hard delineation like you seem to think it is. Microevolution and macroevolution are the exact same thing, only operating on different timescales. If you can't conceive of something larger than a few thousand years, then no wonder you think there's a difference between the two.

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB902.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microevolution#Origin_and_Misuse_of_the _t erm

While true, I think BJP makes a valid point. You aren't necessarily a bad physician if you are a creationist. Suffering from cognitive dissonance, for sure, but my first hand experience with my long-time creationist friend, they make a distinction between what we know and see today vs. what we can know about the past. It's not a rational bit of logic, just an acknowledgement that you could potentially be quite a fine doctor and still be a creationist.



It also bears mentioning that creationism and evolution are not inherently in conflict (or at least, no more than creationism and any other scientific theory). It is only a minority sort of literalist fundamentalism with regard to particular scriptures which generates the conflict we're so familiar with.
 
2014-01-06 08:24:16 PM  

Valiente: HeartBurnKid: WTF does "live like an atheist" mean?  I mean, I'm an atheist (well, I'm trending more towards agnostic lately, just because of my own egocentrism), and as far as I can gather, the only major differences in my life are that I sleep in on Sundays and I don't go around telling everybody "Jesus is the reason for the season" every December.

If only more English words rhymed with "Mithras". Beyond "ass", I mean.

Oh, wait...

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 676x456]


I do wish people who don't know anything about the cult would stop tossing Mithras around -- he's nothing to do with Christmas and "Mithras" as "Mithras" doesn't pre-date Roman Christianity.  They pulled the name for the god from the Persian "Mitra" because Persian Magi are all mystic-like and foreign.

It was a "secret society" more like a men's lodge -- Shriners, Masons, Holy Order of Water Buffalos -- or a fraternity than a religious  movement.
 
2014-01-06 08:32:01 PM  

Beeblebrox: Satanic_Hamster: Captain Darling: Not teaching at a seminary sounds like part of living like an atheist.

Yep.  Also, how exactly does one live as an atheist?  I don't go to atheist lectures or clubs, apparently I'm doing it wrong?

We don't even have a secret handshake. :(


At the next super secret anti-christmas meetings held by the ACLU/Acorn/AFL-CIO/MSM cabal, we should come up with such a handshake.
 
2014-01-06 08:32:32 PM  

ccundiff: They guy designing the circuitry on my computer's processor doesn't need to know the quantum mechanics of the molecules within it.


Actually these days he does, because the physical dimensions of the circuitry are now so goddamned small that quantum effects are starting to play more and more of a role in processor design.

A physician that doesn't 'believe'* in evolution may hold the belief that MRSA (for instance) cannot possibly exist because it would imply rapidly changing (evolving) organisms. Any sort of cop-out for that one thing (micro-evolution, bacteria are asexual so speciation is irrelevant, whatever) just shows more ignorance and lack of understanding with who knows what effect on their activities as a doctor?

So yeah....


(*that's in quotes because it's not a reasonable belief, it's flat denial in the face of evidence)
 
2014-01-06 08:32:35 PM  

DeaH: It is an interesting topic, but why did you choose to be such a jerk about it?


You interpreted this as being a jerk? I apologize. I was actually providing rationale for why you were wrong about his changing beliefs but were not wrong to make the assertions, what with being buried in multiple links and this being a site which has a large amount of content which is basically just opinion pieces or similar argument or agreement on other articles and utilizes inflammatory or sarcastic headlines with frequency. Rather, I was trying to inform those following up on the same idea, his lack of change in belief, of there being far more stories to this in a usual Fark manner with snark about lack of investigation, not directed at you, though.
 
2014-01-06 08:38:07 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: That's cool. That's how most of us feel about atheists. It's fine if you don't believe in God, but it gets tiring listening to atheists trying to "poke holes" in the faith without a good grasp of adult theology. It's like a 6th grader telling a college grad that biology is dumb because sometimes brown-eyed parents have blue-eyed children.

/if I hear the "If god is all-knowing and all powerful, then why is there sin?" again, Imma gonna have to punch someone.


Most religious people do not have any grasp of 'adult theology', so poking holes in their faith is perfectly valid.

Frankly, most 'adult theology' I've ever encountered bears no resemblance to any sort of christianity, and is little more than word-soup and sophistry designed to justify irrational beliefs.

But keep on keeping on, I understand you need to feel special and that death terrifies you.
 
2014-01-06 08:40:53 PM  

Valiente: FitzShivering: Valiente: EvilEgg: How does one "live like an atheist"?  Most Christians don't go to church, don't talk about Jesus much, and pretty much ignore Christ's teaching.

Not necessarily. Christ (or people writing decades after his death allegedly quoting him) said some pretty interesting stuff, as did many of his Classical contemporaries. But he also said some fairly inflammatory things that would tend to tick off the establishment Jews and the Romans of his time.

If you read Christ like you read Plato, or Marcus Aurelius, or Plotinus or even the emperor Julian, it's all good. Currently applicable life lessons may be drawn from "the collected sayings of" and can be used as part of a functional moral compass by any old atheist.

It's when you start with the actual religious edifice built on these sayings, which many people (not only non-religious people) find pretty much diametrically opposed to the intent of the words of the teacher who (again, allegedly and almost certainly heavily redacted) said them, that it all becomes problematic.

Christ the wisdom teacher is fine, if a little "local". Christ the magical fairy with the complicated god/man origin story and the church full of heretic-smiting, gold-loving kiddie fiddlers? Not so much.

My favorite is still Jesus with the moneylenders.  Mainly because Jesus hated capitalism.   Free market put those thieves in that temple, damn it!

What a peacemaker, just the sort of pro-family, hearth and home proto-Republican the world was looking for:

"34"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
35For I have come to turn
"'a man against his father,
    a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law-
36    a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.'[http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+10#fe n-NIV-23454c" title="See footnote c">c]
37"Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not w ...


And then there is all that stupid "abortion is murder" crap!

Genesis @:7 - "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being."

Job 33:4-"The spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life."

Ezekiel 37: 5&6- "Thus says the Lord God to these bones: Behold, I will cause breath to enter you, and you shall live. And I shall lay sinews upon you, and will cause flesh to come upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and you shall live; and you shall know that I am the Lord."

A fetus is not a living thing until respiration occurs. It's true! It's in the Bible!

And here's a little gem about causing a miscarriage:

Exodus 21:22- "If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no mischief follows: he shall surely be punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine."
 
2014-01-06 08:51:27 PM  

Premeditated_Road_Rage: This guy living like an athiest for a year is a lot like Jesus 'dying' for the sins of all...

...except Jesus came back after three days, redefining 'death'...

...and Jesus is coming back to life a second time (supposedly), therefore once more showing that death, at least for him, isn't permanent...

Being dead for just a weekend, to me, is like offering to pay all of someone's bills and then putting a stop payment on the check - you either commit or just farking forget it.  Same deal here.


You know, that has always confused me about the importance Christians place on Jesus' sacrifice.  "He gave his life for US."  "Yeah, but if he's immortal and can come back to life at will, how big of a deal is dying for him then?"
 
2014-01-06 09:15:22 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Premeditated_Road_Rage: This guy living like an athiest for a year is a lot like Jesus 'dying' for the sins of all...

...except Jesus came back after three days, redefining 'death'...

...and Jesus is coming back to life a second time (supposedly), therefore once more showing that death, at least for him, isn't permanent...

Being dead for just a weekend, to me, is like offering to pay all of someone's bills and then putting a stop payment on the check - you either commit or just farking forget it.  Same deal here.

You know, that has always confused me about the importance Christians place on Jesus' sacrifice.  "He gave his life for US."  "Yeah, but if he's immortal and can come back to life at will, how big of a deal is dying for him then?"


Syncretism has muddled the act over the centuries. Some would argue that he died body and soul on the cross and overcame death in that regard. People started to believe that only the body dies and that the soul was immortal, thus leading to your question.
 
2014-01-06 09:37:11 PM  

g4lt: So he's staying out of foxholes for the next year?  Sounds like a pretty sane thing to do.



I never got that whole "no atheist in fox holes" crap.  When I was being shot at, I didn't pause to beg baby jesus to make the bad men stop
 
2014-01-06 09:38:45 PM  
I wasn't in a foxhole though, so I guess there's that.
 
2014-01-06 10:00:12 PM  

thisisarepeat: g4lt: So he's staying out of foxholes for the next year?  Sounds like a pretty sane thing to do.

I never got that whole "no atheist in fox holes" crap.  When I was being shot at, I didn't pause to beg baby jesus to make the bad men stop


I never got why they even try that argument. Yes, people grasp at straws when they're feeling sufficiently desperate, but it doesn't change the fact that people are grasping at straws out of desperation. This is not an argument that is complimentary towards religion. Quite the opposite.
 
2014-01-06 10:23:33 PM  

MooseUpNorth: thisisarepeat: g4lt: So he's staying out of foxholes for the next year?  Sounds like a pretty sane thing to do.

I never got that whole "no atheist in fox holes" crap.  When I was being shot at, I didn't pause to beg baby jesus to make the bad men stop

I never got why they even try that argument. Yes, people grasp at straws when they're feeling sufficiently desperate, but it doesn't change the fact that people are grasping at straws out of desperation. This is not an argument that is complimentary towards religion. Quite the opposite.


I always wondered why Christians would want or need a foxhole.
 
2014-01-06 10:23:35 PM  

ccundiff: DeaH: BojanglesPaladin: A Cave Geek: A competent physician would understand and 'believe' in the science that proves that organisms change and adapt to their environment. Someone who denies evolution IS a poor physician.

I would say you have an imperfect understanding of the theory of evolution and its role in science and biology if you believe this to be true. A medical physician has no real need to understand, much less accept evolutionary theory in order to competently diagnose and treat physical ailments. It is also worth noting that one can fully embrace and accept micro-evolution (the changing of species over time) without accepting macro-evolution (speciation or evolutionary divergence of species).

But either way, it's like saying your pediatrician must accept Freudian psychoanalysis.

But hey. It's your doctor. If you choose your physician based on whether they  share your political affiliation or religion, it's your call.

Evolution is neither politics nor religion. It is the underlying basis for all biology. Doctors who are bad biologists are bad doctors. The fact that you think evolution falls under politics or religion is quite telling.

I think that there is much more to being a good doctor than a complete understanding of biology.  I look at doctors more as technicians of medicine (or engineers) and hopefully humanitarians rather than scientists. Of course modern medicine is informed by biology, but so is modern electrical engineering informed by physics.

They guy designing the circuitry on my computer's processor doesn't need to know the quantum mechanics of the molecules within it.  Likewise my anesthesiologist does not need to know who  Ardipithecus was in order to administer the correct dosage.  My primary care physician doesn't need to understand gene flow or genetic drift in order to diagnose a staph infection.

On the whole the study of medicine is an evolutionary study, but the giving of care is done by care givers, not scientists.


I wouldn't want an engineer who thinks pixies in the computers perform calculations. I don't want a doctor who think the all life was created in six days, six thousand years ago.
 
2014-01-06 10:42:46 PM  
303% funded.

Christian charity < Atheist charity.
 
2014-01-06 11:24:44 PM  
How does one live like an atheist? Be a smarmy dick to everyone else all day? No wonder he got fired.
 
2014-01-06 11:43:11 PM  

phrawgh: MooseUpNorth: thisisarepeat: g4lt: So he's staying out of foxholes for the next year?  Sounds like a pretty sane thing to do.

I never got that whole "no atheist in fox holes" crap.  When I was being shot at, I didn't pause to beg baby jesus to make the bad men stop

I never got why they even try that argument. Yes, people grasp at straws when they're feeling sufficiently desperate, but it doesn't change the fact that people are grasping at straws out of desperation. This is not an argument that is complimentary towards religion. Quite the opposite.

I always wondered why Christians would want or need a foxhole.


Same reason the Pope has his tiny bulletproof car
 
2014-01-06 11:59:56 PM  

JusticeandIndependence: Vangor: This is what I remember doing in my early teens, once I found being an atheist was an option and my disenchantment with Christianity did not mean I had to replace with Islam, Buddhism, etc..

you know what I did in my early twenties?  Nothing, I just kind of stopped thinking about religion entirely.  It just didn't really come up.  I stopped going to church after moving out of my parents house.  I just plain don't think about why I don't believe.  I don't have to be defensive enough about it to read on it or protest some church.

I'm more of the meh thinking on religion.


Kind like me not spending much thought on not believing in astrology. Being an atheist isn't grueling.
 
2014-01-07 12:38:46 AM  

TheOnion: How does one live like an atheist? Stop praying and going to church?


I've been told that shaving your head and throwing away all your stamps is a good start.
 
2014-01-07 12:42:41 AM  
Which group of atheists did he live like though.

category 1: Most of the gamers in a video game/internet cafe at all hours.  Drinking alcohol and/or coffee. Yelling about shenanigans.  Occasionally having to run the store because the owner got drunk over a break-up and slept with his pants down around his ankles in the women's restroom of his own business.  (in case you're wondering why so specific. I was the random christian getting a little tipsy with that group.  And picking on the owner over it.)  Complete with an anarchist who believed in Jesus.  He wants anarchy.  Anyone who disagrees with him on it is an idiot according to him.  I got called that a few times.

category 2: atheists who love to read all kinds of fiction right along with the christian friends they somehow decided to get along with and were perfectly fine as long as you didn't insist that Cthulhu could be vaporized by Q.

I know there are other categories. Fark covers them plenty of times. I think I can leave it at that.
 
2014-01-07 12:44:12 AM  

Whodat: Given that theology is "is the systematic and study of the concepts of God and the nature of religious truths" and that atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of those concepts and beliefs, I can understand him being let go from a Theological Seminary. His stance is akin to going to basketball camp and rejecting the concept of all sports yet expecting to be able to still play the game and get paid to do it.



Do you expect an expert on the history of Nazi Germany to actually be a Nazi?

It's entirely possible to study something without believing or subscribing to it.    One could even argue it would make you BETTER at studying it objectively.
 
2014-01-07 01:09:47 AM  

The Southern Dandy: meanmutton: jigger: HotWingConspiracy: LOL

So very Christ-like.

Here's some trivia for you: Jesus hated anyone that wasn't a Christian.

He doesn't hate them. He loves them. Just because he sends them into a lake of fire for eternity doesn't mean he hates them.

Technically, Christians believe that Jesus tries to get people to go to heaven but they choose the lake of eternal fire.

So Jesus/God is impotent?  He has no power to stop a person from going to hell? Why pray to him if he's impotent?


Epicurus called.

The usual argument is "free will."  Jesus doesn't want anyone to go to hell, but humanity having free will and the right to "choose" to not obey God is more important than saving everyone from hell, so Humans are allowed to reject Jesus.

The problem cases are people who never heard about Jesus, and those too immature/ignorant to be able to make adult decisions.  This leads to complications such as unbaptized babies going to Limbo and special places in Hell reserved for "virtuous pagans."  Then you get into issues like the Bosom of Abraham, and it gets complicated.
 
2014-01-07 01:16:41 AM  

BojanglesPaladin: Ant: Many atheists know believe they know The Bible backward and forward.

Not saying none do, but the percentage of Atheists I have debated who actually have any familiarity beyond basic Sunday School level is pretty much nil. Sure they can quote something they read in an atheist book or blog or whatever, but ask them something outside their pre-loaded bullet points? Blank.

To be fair, this is exactly the same situation when debating most Christians about their faith as well. Basic Sunday School level at best.


Oh, I'll freely admit that I don't have the silly thing memorized.  I've got better things to do with my time than memorize a book of fairy tales.

I've read it.  Once.  It's mostly deadly dull, with quite a bit of absurdity and plenty of violence.  I see no reason to read it again.

And there's no real point in debating any given point in it.  There is no god.  And once you understand that there is no god, any debate on a particular religion's views on gays or shrimp is absurdly irrelevant, other than as a bit of amusement.
 
2014-01-07 02:06:01 AM  

thisisarepeat: I wasn't in a foxhole though, so I guess there's that.


Been there, you just beg for it to stop.  Religion doesn't really come into it.  And it wasn't a foxhole, it was a plane crash.
 
2014-01-07 03:06:45 AM  
Let's see- my life consists mostly of working 12-hour shifts with a 40km commute each way, playing violin in a volunteer orchestra, and spending my off-days working in an unheated blacksmith shop for fun. Bet it kills him in a month.
 
2014-01-07 03:17:31 AM  
"I want to take a year off. Just hang out, you know?"
"No"
"I have interesting idea for an anthropological study for a year"
"No"
"Doing it anyway jerkwads"
 
2014-01-07 07:27:04 AM  

A Cave Geek: [global3.memecdn.com image 850x890]


Damn it, we've been over this. Jesus was a LICH. He raised himself from the dead, he wasn't mindless, and he could raise others. It's all there in the monster manual.
 
2014-01-07 07:30:57 AM  
Yeah, he's not planning to live as an atheist, he's trying to live as an "ATHEIST," aka an attention whore who pokes at reactionist religionics to get a reaction to his atheistness.
 
2014-01-07 07:33:58 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: Vangor: Satanic_Hamster: I don't go to atheist lectures or clubs, apparently I'm doing it wrong?

Be mindful, his world-view is one of having been a pastor and professor in what is a rather structured denomination of Protestantism. For one to live as a member of any faith would be to steep themselves in the ritual and practices and representations of belief. Without solid ritual and practices and belief, this is what he has chosen.

Every night, I put a few cd's into the turn table, open a beer, and play Counter Strike.  Does that count?


I was led to believe that a turntable was for playing records (e.g. because it has a round table that turns so the needle plays the music) but if turntable also means multi-cd changer I'm all for it.
 
2014-01-07 07:34:52 AM  
Sounds like a success to me.
 
2014-01-07 08:26:14 AM  

OhioKnight: Valiente: HeartBurnKid: WTF does "live like an atheist" mean?  I mean, I'm an atheist (well, I'm trending more towards agnostic lately, just because of my own egocentrism), and as far as I can gather, the only major differences in my life are that I sleep in on Sundays and I don't go around telling everybody "Jesus is the reason for the season" every December.

If only more English words rhymed with "Mithras". Beyond "ass", I mean.

Oh, wait...

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 676x456]

I do wish people who don't know anything about the cult would stop tossing Mithras around -- he's nothing to do with Christmas and "Mithras" as "Mithras" doesn't pre-date Roman Christianity.  They pulled the name for the god from the Persian "Mitra" because Persian Magi are all mystic-like and foreign.

It was a "secret society" more like a men's lodge -- Shriners, Masons, Holy Order of Water Buffalos -- or a fraternity than a religious  movement.


Eh, who cares.  I don't get the mithras stuff either, though, since...

25.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-01-07 09:57:43 AM  

DiffMavis: I was led to believe that a turntable was for playing records (e.g. because it has a round table that turns so the needle plays the music) but if turntable also means multi-cd changer I'm all for it.


You can have a multi-disc cd player that's not a turn table.

thumbs2.ebaystatic.com

vs.

seattlecontent.s3.amazonaws.com
 
2014-01-07 11:37:00 AM  

Qaiwolf: Yeah, he's not planning to live as an atheist, he's trying to live as an "ATHEIST," aka an attention whore who pokes at reactionist religionics to get a reaction to his atheistness.


Oh?  What's his Fark handle?
 
2014-01-07 11:45:33 AM  

ciberido: This leads to complications such as unbaptized babies going to Limbo


Those poor kids... They'll have to hang around with those flash-sideways incarnations of all the Lost characters!
 
2014-01-07 11:51:12 AM  

DeaH: It matters because modern medicines are based on evolutionary science.


Not really. I hate to flip your lid here, but biology predates evolution. Evolution is a sub-set of biology. Can show me how evolutionary science directly impacts diagnosis of, say, lung cancer? Even when it comes to genetics, evolutionary science, which spans millennia and huge generational drifts isn't really relevant.

DeaH: Evolution is neither politics nor religion. It is the underlying basis for all biology.


Again, biology underpins evolution, but in practical terms, it's not the other way around. For instance, analysis of mitochondrial DNA provides support for evolutionary theory - biology (a much older filed) is used to support it. I would say you have an imperfect understanding of the theory of evolution and its role in science and biology if you believe this to be true. A medical physician has no real need to understand, much less accept evolutionary theory in order to competently diagnose and treat physical ailments.
 
2014-01-07 11:54:38 AM  

DeaH: Doctors who are bad biologists are bad doctors. The fact that you think evolution falls under politics or religion is quite telling.


A biologist is not the same thing as a physician is not the same thing as an evolutionary scientist. Any more than a theoretical mathematician is an engineer.

Also, I did not say that evolution falls under politics or religion. (although it's clear that for many see it that way).I said that using "belief in evolution" (whatever that means) as a criteria for selecting a physician makes as much sense as selecting a physician based on their politics or religion. The fact that you don't understand that is quite telling.
 
2014-01-07 12:03:15 PM  

ampoliros: I happen to think that there are a lot more atheists out there than you would find on a survey though many would decline the label.


Well, some are more against the Church than against a god.  In fact, I would say that there might be quite a few deists that are misidentified as atheist; those who think that there is a higher power, but that it's unlike anything any religion posits.
 
2014-01-07 12:09:09 PM  

Pitabred: Hehe. That's cute, you think you can distinguish between micro-evolution and macro-evolution using something as imperfect and fluid as "speciation". Species are just naming scientists use for shorthand... species have jumped entire taxonomic trees before, and it's far from a hard delineation like you seem to think it is. Microevolution and macroevolution are the exact same thing, only operating on different timescales. If you can't conceive of something larger than a few thousand years, then no wonder you think there's a difference between the two.



I think it's cute that you can't distinguish between the SCIENCE of verifiable, reproducible empirical evidence like genetic variation among species (micro evolution) and extrapolative, non-reproducible, hypothetical evidence like speciation (macro-evolution) where we don't have the ability to confirm results.

Yes, "speciation" is an imperfect and fluid concept, which is kind of the point. And to be clear, species have not "jumped entire taxonomic trees", rather, scientists have changed their understanding of which taxonomic groups they properly belong to, which is a whole other can of worms having to do with the assumptive and subjective practice of applying morphological characteristics in extrapolation of assumed (but often inprovable)  common descent. It is vitally important that one does not confuse the 'proven' genetic variation over generations which is demonstrable, verifiable and most importantly, reproducible (see dog breeding for instance) with non-reproducing, genetically incompatible divergence of species (Chihuahuas and great danes are still genetically compatible.)

This is NOT to say that epoch evolution (speciation, "macro-evolution") is wrong. Rather, I am pointing out that "believing in evolution" is not a binary condition, and that while one can and should accept that species change over time, there is a great deal still to be proven about speciation and common descent and therefore, even among evolutionary scientists, there is still a lot of speculation, hypothesis, contradiction and uncertainty. Which is as it should be. Science should never consider a matter settled, and in the case of evolution over millennia, it is decidedly unsettled. Hell, we're still working on the exact mechanisms by which is even occurs.
 
2014-01-07 12:21:41 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: DeaH: It matters because modern medicines are based on evolutionary science.

Not really. I hate to flip your lid here, but biology predates evolution. Evolution is a sub-set of biology. Can show me how evolutionary science directly impacts diagnosis of, say, lung cancer? Even when it comes to genetics, evolutionary science, which spans millennia and huge generational drifts isn't really relevant.

Again, biology underpins evolution, but in practical terms, it's not the other way around. For instance, analysis of mitochondrial DNA provides support for evolutionary theory - biology (a much older filed) is used to support it. I would say you have an imperfect understanding of the theory of evolution and its role in science and biology if you believe this to be true. A medical physician has no real need to understand, much less accept evolutionary theory in order to competently diagnose and treat physical ailments.


No, just because other biological knowledge came before knowledge of evolution, that does not mean that evolution isn't the underlying factor in biology. You seem to have an imperfect grasp of the difference between epistemological and informational hierarchies. And evolution has a lot to do with modern medicine.

Like all biological systems, both disease-causing organisms and their victims evolve. Understanding evolution can make a big difference in how we treat disease. The evolution of disease-causing organisms may outpace our ability to invent new treatments, but studying the evolution of drug resistance can help us slow it. Learning about the evolutionary origins of diseases may provide clues about how to treat them. And considering the basic processes of evolution can help us understand the roots of genetic diseases.

At the very least, an understanding of evolution helps physicians stop over-prescribing antibiotics. And that is the least-most application. Hereditary disease is often treated differently (and certainly diagnosed differently) than diseases that are not heritable. Hell, the flu alone is an excellent example of evolution, and a physician needs a basic grasp of this just to understand effective treatment and prevention. I go to a doctor, in part, because the doctor is supposed to be a lot more knowledgeable than I am about biological issues. I want expertise. A belief that evolution is just something made up is not expertise.

While it's true that I do not need a physicist to fix my computer, I do not want a tech who thinks the fairies make the system work. A doctor need not be en epidemiologist, but he or she better not think that the foundation for all biology is that all life was created in six days about six thousand years ago.
 
2014-01-07 12:24:54 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: Pitabred: Hehe. That's cute, you think you can distinguish between micro-evolution and macro-evolution using something as imperfect and fluid as "speciation". Species are just naming scientists use for shorthand... species have jumped entire taxonomic trees before, and it's far from a hard delineation like you seem to think it is. Microevolution and macroevolution are the exact same thing, only operating on different timescales. If you can't conceive of something larger than a few thousand years, then no wonder you think there's a difference between the two.


I think it's cute that you can't distinguish between the SCIENCE of verifiable, reproducible empirical evidence like genetic variation among species (micro evolution) and extrapolative, non-reproducible, hypothetical evidence like speciation (macro-evolution) where we don't have the ability to confirm results.

Yes, "speciation" is an imperfect and fluid concept, which is kind of the point. And to be clear, species have not "jumped entire taxonomic trees", rather, scientists have changed their understanding of which taxonomic groups they properly belong to, which is a whole other can of worms having to do with the assumptive and subjective practice of applying morphological characteristics in extrapolation of assumed (but often inprovable)  common descent. It is vitally important that one does not confuse the 'proven' genetic variation over generations which is demonstrable, verifiable and most importantly, reproducible (see dog breeding for instance) with non-reproducing, genetically incompatible divergence of species (Chihuahuas and great danes are still genetically compatible.)

This is NOT to say that epoch evolution (speciation, "macro-evolution") is wrong. Rather, I am pointing out that "believing in evolution" is not a binary condition, and that while one can and should accept that species change over time, there is a great deal still to be proven about speciation and common descent and therefore, even ...


Are you trying to CDP?
Because you're f(l)ailing.
Badly.

Evolution is a mechanism. A fact. Observed directly. And the evidence - all of it - supports evolution.
You can quibble about how it works, and real scientists do, but evolution is a cold stone fact.
 
2014-01-07 12:30:21 PM  

Finger51: If by 'Utility' you mean I have no need for deluding myself into belief without evidence (which is what your faithful screwdriver really boils down to) then you are correct.


That is not what I mean. That is what you have chosen to replace what I mean with. What I mean, I said very simply:
"eligion is to Science as Music is to sculpture. One is not 'better' than the other, and it's good to have both.
They are different frameworks by which to grasp the cosmos."

YOU keep utterly missing the point with a fixation on "requiring faith" as a prerequisite to validity. The screwdriver does not require a screwdriver to be a tool. It *IS* the tool.

(Also, while we are using the tool metaphor, please remember that we are actually talking about cognitive, conceptual frameworks by which we can better understand existence. Neither Science nor Religion 'exist' in the way that a hammer or screwdriver do. Any more than 'Music' or 'sculpture' exist independently.)

Science and Religion (or philosophy if you prefer) are not addressing the same concerns. Just as it would be foolish to use a hammer to drive a screw into joining materials, it would be foolish to use Religion to treat cancer or practice chemistry. Just as it would be foolish to use a screwdriver to push a nail into joining materials, it would be foolish to use science to establish what love is, or determine justice.

Finger51: I find it curious that you think I said anything of the sort. The closest I can see that I said that one tool is evidence based and (implied) more valid, the other is faith based. How you claim that I've judged others as 'mistaken' is ... curious.


Because you insist that the "screwdriver" is an invalid tool. You have re-iterated this a number of times. Obviously, when you say that ONE of the two tools is completely invalid as a tool, you are implying that those who use it as a tool are mistaken. You may "be happy to let them", but you still insist that they are "deluding" themselves when they use it.
 
2014-01-07 12:36:54 PM  

DeaH: I wouldn't want an engineer who thinks pixies in the computers perform calculations. I don't want a doctor who think the all life was created in six days, six thousand years ago.


Ever been to Notre Dame Cathedral? Everyone involved in it's construction firmly believed in these "fairy tales". Oddly, their belief in the unprovable existence of God and angels, and demons (and probably witches and fairies and ghosts) did not in the least impact their ability to build an incredibly sound and massive building.

Both the father of modern biology and the man behind the "big Bang" theory (the science, not the TV show) were devoutly religious and firmly believed in these "fairy tales". Oddly, their belief in the unprovable existence of God and angels, and demons  did not in the least impact their ability to fundamentally advance science.

I don't know how many ways we can make this clear to you. Absolute acceptance of evolutionary theory is not a requirement for a physician.

But since it is YOUR doctor, you can use whatever criteria you like, no matter how nonsensical.
 
2014-01-07 12:40:34 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: Evolution is a mechanism. A fact. Observed directly. And the evidence - all of it - supports evolution.


Your example is one of organisms changing over time. I think you missed what I am saying.

"It is vitally important that one does not confuse the 'proven' genetic variation over generations which is demonstrable, verifiable and most importantly, reproducible (see dog breeding for instance) with non-reproducing, genetically incompatible divergence of species (Chihuahuas and great danes are still genetically compatible.)"

You are making a common error. Proof of genetic variation over generations supports, but does not prove speciation and common ancestry over millennia.
 
2014-01-07 12:41:14 PM  

DeaH: Hereditary disease is often treated differently (and certainly diagnosed differently) than diseases that are not heritable.


You seem to be confusing genetics with evolution.
 
2014-01-07 12:41:50 PM  

Lsherm: Been there, you just beg for it to stop.



Who are you begging?
 
2014-01-07 12:43:57 PM  

DarkVader: Oh, I'll freely admit that I don't have the silly thing memorized. I've got better things to do with my time than memorize a book of fairy tales.


Thank you for your contribution.
 
2014-01-07 12:50:10 PM  

Gothnet: Frankly, most 'adult theology' I've ever encountered bears no resemblance to any sort of christianity, and is little more than word-soup and sophistry designed to justify irrational beliefs.But keep on keeping on, I understand you need to feel special and that death terrifies you.


I cannot speak to your personal experience, but it would seem obvious that you have not sought out subject matter experts.

Also, since I have not said anything whatsoever about my personal beliefs, I find your broad assumptions about them, or even the purpose they serve to be all I need to know about your level of intellect and inquiry.
 
2014-01-07 12:50:50 PM  
OK. I think that's everyone. If I missed anyone I apologize.

I'll check back later as time permits.
 
2014-01-07 12:54:14 PM  

AgentPothead: I'll try to explain what "living like an atheist" means since nobody seems to get it. Imagine your head was literally inserted into your anus. This was the normal way a large majority of the planet lived. Then imagine one day, you pulled your head out of your anus and got a chance to see reality, instead of the walls of your anal cavity. That's what "living like an atheist" means, pulling your head out of your ass. It means not being ignorant to the reality around you in the non existent chance a god will punish or reward you after you die.


I've been assured that being a smug, condescending asshat is entirely optional.
 
2014-01-07 01:00:10 PM  

AgentPothead: Ant: Pants full of macaroni!!: You also have to loudly inform everyone within hearing range that you are an atheist

I've never done that. Usually it starts with a question from a believer like "What church do you go to?" or "has your son been baptized?"

How those conversations actually go down in my experience.

Religious:What church do you attend/denomination do you subscribe to/another religious question
Atheist: Oh sorry I'm an atheist, I don't believe in any of that.
Religious:OH AN ATHEIST, HEAR THAT EVERYBODY AN ATHEIST, OHHHH AN ATHEIST.
Atheist: Yeah, I don't believe in organized religions as they are all organized by man as ways to control the masses and ignorant.
Religious:OH AN ATHEIST, HEAR THAT EVERYBODY, ETC.....
Atheist: I'll just be leaving now.


Funny, based on your earlier post I would have imagined it went more like this:

Religious: What church do you attend?

Atheist:  Pull your head out of your ass!  That way, you'll finally get a chance to see reality, instead of the walls of your anal cavity!  I'm an atheist!  That  means not being ignorant to the reality around me in the non existent chance a god will punish or reward me after I die.

Religious: Oh sorry, I didn't realize you were an obnoxious twatwaffle.  I'll just be going now.
 
2014-01-07 02:38:09 PM  

EvilEgg: How does one "live like an atheist"?


By living a very moral and ethical life and having very good reasons for everything you do, being able to explain the reasoning behind your personal moral code and why you hold it, and by examining every part of your life on a regular basis to make sure you're not doing anything irrational or harmful to yourself or others. .
 
2014-01-07 03:00:51 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: DeaH: Hereditary disease is often treated differently (and certainly diagnosed differently) than diseases that are not heritable.

You seem to be confusing genetics with evolution.


You seem to be under the impression that genetics are not a primary biological mechanism for evolution. Genetics are a subset of the Theory of Evolution.
 
2014-01-07 03:01:26 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: DeaH: Hereditary disease is often treated differently (and certainly diagnosed differently) than diseases that are not heritable.

You seem to be confusing genetics with evolution.


And you left off the rest of the examples I gave. Why?
 
2014-01-07 03:08:40 PM  

DeaH: Genetics are a subset of the Theory of Evolution.


Not really, no. Are you sure you understand what we are discussing?

DeaH: You seem to be under the impression that genetics are not a primary biological mechanism for evolution.


No clue how you arrived at that mistaken conclusion. You will notice, for instance that I pointed out that mitochondrial DNA supports evolutionary hypothesis?

I am unsurprised that you keep missing these important details, and instead opt to fly off against some perceived or imagined position.
 
2014-01-07 03:14:07 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: DeaH: I wouldn't want an engineer who thinks pixies in the computers perform calculations. I don't want a doctor who think the all life was created in six days, six thousand years ago.

Ever been to Notre Dame Cathedral? Everyone involved in it's construction firmly believed in these "fairy tales". Oddly, their belief in the unprovable existence of God and angels, and demons (and probably witches and fairies and ghosts) did not in the least impact their ability to build an incredibly sound and massive building.

Both the father of modern biology and the man behind the "big Bang" theory (the science, not the TV show) were devoutly religious and firmly believed in these "fairy tales". Oddly, their belief in the unprovable existence of God and angels, and demons  did not in the least impact their ability to fundamentally advance science.

I don't know how many ways we can make this clear to you. Absolute acceptance of evolutionary theory is not a requirement for a physician.

But since it is YOUR doctor, you can use whatever criteria you like, no matter how nonsensical.


Actually, the Catholic Church has no problem with evolution.

You also misread my example. I do not want a technician fixing my computer who thinks faeries are inside running things. I do not want a doctor who beleives the basis for biology is that all life was created in six days six thousand years ago. Those things directly affect how repairs (to a body or a machine) are done. If an architect believes that life was created in six days six thousand years ago, well, he's not working on a biological structure, is he? On the other hand, if he believes that faeries will buttress the arches, yeah, I'd screen him out, too.
 
2014-01-07 03:15:22 PM  

DeaH: And you left off the rest of the examples I gave. Why?


Because it's pointless, and beside the point. No one is disputing that hereditary diseases are treated differently.

But that doesn't have much to do with evolution. More accurately, you are failing to understand the distinction between variation of species over time and origin of species. As I have said countless times now, I do not think anyone disputes that organisms within a species change over time through iterative changes each generation. But that is not ALL of evolution.
 
2014-01-07 03:16:54 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: DeaH: Genetics are a subset of the Theory of Evolution.

Not really, no. Are you sure you understand what we are discussing?

DeaH: You seem to be under the impression that genetics are not a primary biological mechanism for evolution.

No clue how you arrived at that mistaken conclusion. You will notice, for instance that I pointed out that mitochondrial DNA supports evolutionary hypothesis?

I am unsurprised that you keep missing these important details, and instead opt to fly off against some perceived or imagined position.


I actually provided links to back up my points you are asserting an deliberately misrepresenting. I suppose that is what one has to do to defend such silliness.
 
2014-01-07 03:17:45 PM  

DeaH: Actually, the Catholic Church has no problem with evolution.


I don't believe I suggested that they did? Perhaps you don't know who either of the people I referenced are, or that they are Catholic?

I'm not really convinced that you and I are having the same conversation here. It's like you aren't reading my posts at all.
 
2014-01-07 03:24:00 PM  

DeaH: I actually provided links to back up my points you are asserting an deliberately misrepresenting.


Which points? I do not dispute that hereditary diseases are treated differently.

And regarding your e.coli example, I've already addressed it. It is proof of something that I already accept as 'proven'. You don't need thousands of generations of e.coli to prove what dog breeding proves in a few decades. There is ample and edequate proof that organisms within a species change over time through iterative changes each generation. We see it all the time. It is REPRODUCABLE.

But that is NOT proof of the origin of species or of common ancestry across millennia. It may well be true, and there is certainly compelling circumstantial evidence, but that aspect of evolution is still hotly contested, uncertain, and (as any evolutionary scientist can tell you) still unsettled.

Now all evolutionary scientists probably BELIEVE that its true, just as theoretical physicists may BELIEVE in string theory, but it's not accepted fact. Yet.

I'm not sure why this is so hard to grasp, but you keep consistently missing the point and keep trying to argue against points I am not disputing.
 
2014-01-07 03:31:47 PM  

DeaH: While it's true that I do not need a physicist to fix my computer, I do not want a tech who thinks the fairies make the system work.


Of course not! Everyone knows it's the daemons that make the system work!
 
2014-01-07 05:02:25 PM  

ciberido: AgentPothead: Ant: Pants full of macaroni!!: You also have to loudly inform everyone within hearing range that you are an atheist

I've never done that. Usually it starts with a question from a believer like "What church do you go to?" or "has your son been baptized?"

How those conversations actually go down in my experience.

Religious:What church do you attend/denomination do you subscribe to/another religious question
Atheist: Oh sorry I'm an atheist, I don't believe in any of that.
Religious:OH AN ATHEIST, HEAR THAT EVERYBODY AN ATHEIST, OHHHH AN ATHEIST.
Atheist: Yeah, I don't believe in organized religions as they are all organized by man as ways to control the masses and ignorant.
Religious:OH AN ATHEIST, HEAR THAT EVERYBODY, ETC.....
Atheist: I'll just be leaving now.

Funny, based on your earlier post I would have imagined it went more like this:

Religious: What church do you attend?

Atheist:  Pull your head out of your ass!  That way, you'll finally get a chance to see reality, instead of the walls of your anal cavity!  I'm an atheist!  That  means not being ignorant to the reality around me in the non existent chance a god will punish or reward me after I die.

Religious: Oh sorry, I didn't realize you were an obnoxious twatwaffle.  I'll just be going now.


I can't speak for Mr. Ant, but IME, it tends to go more like this:

Religious: What church do you attend?

Atheist: None. I'm an atheist.

Religious:  You need to come to my church right now!

Atheist:  Sorry, no.

Religious:  But your immortal soul is in danger!

Atheist:  Nope.

Religious:  Oh, I see.  Satan already has your soul!  SATANIST!

Atheist:  Still no.

Religious:  I can't believe a SATANIST lives in my town!  How dare you even show your face in public!  You are a servant of evil!  Good Christian folk shouldn't even have to look at you!

Atheist:  Please go the fark away and leave me alone!

Religious:  YOU ARROGANT BIGOT!  How dare you infringe my religious freedom!
 
2014-01-07 05:22:10 PM  

HeartBurnKid: I can't speak for Mr. Ant, but IME, it tends to go more like this:


IME, this never actually happened to you.
 
2014-01-07 06:14:40 PM  

HeartBurnKid: I can't speak for Mr. Ant, but IME, it tends to go more like this:


Where do you people live? The most I've ever gotten was variations on, "Atheist? I don't understand what that means."... Once, a very confused looking Jehovah's Witness had a visible epiphany while contemplating what I'd just said and finally shouted, "Oh, I think I've heard of people like you before!", as if he'd just discovered a new lifeform he'd only read about existing in theory...
 
2014-01-07 06:41:51 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: Lsherm: Been there, you just beg for it to stop.


Who are you begging?


Absolutely no one in particular.  Just for it to be over with.  I didn't even break any bones but I don't remember having any coherent thought while we were bumping on the ground.
 
2014-01-07 06:54:07 PM  

Lsherm: BojanglesPaladin: Lsherm: Been there, you just beg for it to stop.

Who are you begging?

Absolutely no one in particular.  Just for it to be over with.  I didn't even break any bones but I don't remember having any coherent thought while we were bumping on the ground.\


Understood. I just find it fascinating that at the most basic level, you instinctively believed that there was someone to be appealed to.
 
2014-01-07 07:14:05 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: Lsherm: BojanglesPaladin: Lsherm: Been there, you just beg for it to stop.

Who are you begging?

Absolutely no one in particular.  Just for it to be over with.  I didn't even break any bones but I don't remember having any coherent thought while we were bumping on the ground.\

Understood. I just find it fascinating that at the most basic level, you instinctively believed that there was someone to be appealed to.


It's not necessarily a belief that there's someone or something there. It's just a socially conditioned behavior, like saying "bless you" reflexively doesn't mean you're actually trying to bless the person. We fall back on our patterns of behavior when our higher cognition is otherwise occupied or overwhelmed. I think you give too much credit to "basic level" being any more than well-worn behavior patterns taking over.
 
2014-01-07 07:21:42 PM  

RobSeace: HeartBurnKid: I can't speak for Mr. Ant, but IME, it tends to go more like this:

Where do you people live? The most I've ever gotten was variations on, "Atheist? I don't understand what that means."... Once, a very confused looking Jehovah's Witness had a visible epiphany while contemplating what I'd just said and finally shouted, "Oh, I think I've heard of people like you before!", as if he'd just discovered a new lifeform he'd only read about existing in theory...


I live in Lancaster, CA.  We have a lot of residents that are real dickheads about this sort of thing.  Including our mayor.
 
2014-01-07 07:43:51 PM  

Pitabred: It's just a socially conditioned behavior, like saying "bless you" reflexively doesn't mean you're actually trying to bless the person. We fall back on our patterns of behavior when our higher cognition is otherwise occupied or overwhelmed. I think you give too much credit to "basic level" being any more than well-worn behavior patterns taking over.


In my experience, during times of high stress, or panic, social niceties like "bless you" and "please" are the very first things to go. I'm sure you have observed the same.

Perhaps you are right about "well worn behavior patterns taking over", but I did not assume that you so frequently appealed to 'someone, anyone' that it had become a well worn pattern. I would be surprised to find that you are a frequent prayer?

Look. It's your experience, and it's your life and you understand best what happened and what it means to you. I am not trying to convince you of anything, and only you can interpret what, if anything, any of it means to you.

As I said, I just find it fascinating how common the instinctive appeal to some entity to change things is in times of extreme stress, panic or life-threatening circumstances. I found it notable that you identified as "begging" without first filtering it through a cognitive filter.
 
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