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(Reason Magazine)   Anti sodomy laws overturned ✓ Legal contraception ✓ Free porn ✓ Same sex marriage (getting there). Next up: Polygamy   (reason.com ) divider line
    More: Cool, opponents of same-sex marriage, sodomy laws, Sister Wives, sexual ethics, contraceptives, plural marriage, civil liberties, Steve Chapman  
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1923 clicks; posted to Politics » on 06 Jan 2014 at 1:36 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-06 01:05:56 PM  
Meh, the second someone comes up with a legitimate way to handle the property/kids/contract/all that jazz between 3 or more parties, I'll be fine with polygamous marriage. They're consenting adults and all know the situation, so whatever. Just figure out how to work out the little stuff and marry away.
 
2014-01-06 01:39:05 PM  

scottydoesntknow: Meh, the second someone comes up with a legitimate way to handle the property/kids/contract/all that jazz between 3 or more parties, I'll be fine with polygamous marriage. They're consenting adults and all know the situation, so whatever. Just figure out how to work out the little stuff and marry away.


Pretty much this.
 
2014-01-06 01:39:56 PM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: scottydoesntknow: Meh, the second someone comes up with a legitimate way to handle the property/kids/contract/all that jazz between 3 or more parties, I'll be fine with polygamous marriage. They're consenting adults and all know the situation, so whatever. Just figure out how to work out the little stuff and marry away.

Pretty much this.


Seconded.
 
2014-01-06 01:40:41 PM  
When can I marry a goat?
 
2014-01-06 01:40:43 PM  
How about legalizing BDSM? In many states, it's considered illegal because "you cannot consent to being assaulted."

/no real problem with a person who has two spouses
//my issue is when one guy gets eight wives and keeps them effectively enslaved, with no ability to leave the relationship
///yes, there's a difference between consensual BDSM and non-consensual Mormon Misogyny Harems
 
2014-01-06 01:41:03 PM  

CygnusDarius: Monkeyhouse Zendo: scottydoesntknow: Meh, the second someone comes up with a legitimate way to handle the property/kids/contract/all that jazz between 3 or more parties, I'll be fine with polygamous marriage. They're consenting adults and all know the situation, so whatever. Just figure out how to work out the little stuff and marry away.

Pretty much this.

Seconded.


Sooo... how's that local sports team doing?
 
2014-01-06 01:41:12 PM  
hey, if the native americans can still smoke peyote then old school mormons who want to increase mormon population numbers should be ok, too.
 
2014-01-06 01:41:29 PM  
Heinlein gets the last laugh after all.
 
2014-01-06 01:42:47 PM  

Muta: When can I marry a goat?


When we've genetically engineered goats that are self aware and smart enough to give consent.
 
2014-01-06 01:44:37 PM  

scottydoesntknow: Meh, the second someone comes up with a legitimate way to handle the property/kids/contract/all that jazz between 3 or more parties, I'll be fine with polygamous marriage. They're consenting adults and all know the situation, so whatever. Just figure out how to work out the little stuff and marry away.


Not sure why it would be very different, legally speaking.
 
2014-01-06 01:44:45 PM  

Click Click D'oh: Heinlein gets the last laugh after all.


If only.
 
2014-01-06 01:45:31 PM  

Smoking GNU: CygnusDarius: Monkeyhouse Zendo: scottydoesntknow: Meh, the second someone comes up with a legitimate way to handle the property/kids/contract/all that jazz between 3 or more parties, I'll be fine with polygamous marriage. They're consenting adults and all know the situation, so whatever. Just figure out how to work out the little stuff and marry away.

Pretty much this.

Seconded.

Sooo... how's that local sports team doing?


Oh sir, the 49ers of San Francisco took on the Packers of Green Bay. And in the end, the 49ers triumphed by kicking an oblong ball made of pigskin through a big "H". It was a most ripping victory.
 
2014-01-06 01:47:37 PM  

Muta: When can I marry a goat?


Depends. How old is the goat?
 
2014-01-06 01:47:46 PM  

Saborlas: How about legalizing BDSM? In many states, it's considered illegal because "you cannot consent to being assaulted."

/no real problem with a person who has two spouses
//my issue is when one guy gets eight wives and keeps them effectively enslaved, with no ability to leave the relationship
///yes, there's a difference between consensual BDSM and non-consensual Mormon Misogyny Harems


I would imagine the biggest issue with that is when it comes to the mormon religion the women know they are getting into a relationship where the husband is the boss and they do what they are told. Or what ever is written down in their books. They are beat over the head with that shiat they start to believe it, so in their mind it is consensual.

I knew of few people back in Toronto that were in the BDSM lifestyle, wonderful people. It shouldn't be illegal, it's no ones business what others do in their bedroom, or private club.
 
2014-01-06 01:47:48 PM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Muta: When can I marry a goat?

When we've genetically engineered goats that are self aware and smart enough to give consent.

Will you settle for a captioned youtube video of it braying?

 
2014-01-06 01:47:58 PM  
 
2014-01-06 01:48:08 PM  

scottydoesntknow: Meh, the second someone comes up with a legitimate way to handle the property/kids/contract/all that jazz between 3 or more parties, I'll be fine with polygamous marriage. They're consenting adults and all know the situation, so whatever. Just figure out how to work out the little stuff and marry away.


Would you be personally affected by legalization?

(this question is also posed to the seconds, thirds et al)
 
2014-01-06 01:48:29 PM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Muta: When can I marry a goat?

When we've genetically engineered goats that are self aware and smart enough to give consent.


I was promised that marrying goats was going to be next.
 
2014-01-06 01:52:19 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Would you be personally affected by legalization?


How in god's name would that be relevant?
 
2014-01-06 01:53:08 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: scottydoesntknow: Meh, the second someone comes up with a legitimate way to handle the property/kids/contract/all that jazz between 3 or more parties, I'll be fine with polygamous marriage. They're consenting adults and all know the situation, so whatever. Just figure out how to work out the little stuff and marry away.

Would you be personally affected by legalization?

(this question is also posed to the seconds, thirds et al)


Nope.
 
2014-01-06 01:53:41 PM  
Who wants more than one wife?
 
2014-01-06 01:54:07 PM  

phenn: scottydoesntknow: Meh, the second someone comes up with a legitimate way to handle the property/kids/contract/all that jazz between 3 or more parties, I'll be fine with polygamous marriage. They're consenting adults and all know the situation, so whatever. Just figure out how to work out the little stuff and marry away.

Not sure why it would be very different, legally speaking.


Let's say guy gets 3 wives.  Wife 2 wants to divorce the group.  Do wife 1 and 3 have to pay alimony in addition to the guy or not?  Do wife 1 and 3 get any visitation with wife 2's kids?  What if wife 3 goes to the hospital and man and wife 1 disagree on treatment?
 
2014-01-06 01:54:20 PM  

scottydoesntknow: Meh, the second someone comes up with a legitimate way to handle the property/kids/contract/all that jazz between 3 or more parties, I'll be fine with polygamous marriage. They're consenting adults and all know the situation, so whatever. Just figure out how to work out the little stuff and marry away.


What's so hard? Stuff acquired after marriage gets divvied up based on fraction leaving vs staying, children stay with the parents best able to take care of them. I would change the law to require couples of all types to meet with a lawyer before marriage to explain exactly how the law works.  Though I am not personally in favour of polygamy. I think polyamory would be better and deal with the whole not enough women to go around. I actually remember in Canada we had a polyamory trial awhile back. One of the lawyers was a woman with two boyfriends that she wanted to marry.
 
2014-01-06 01:54:42 PM  
Run it like a corporation with a CEO and a board of directors and yada yada yada
 
2014-01-06 01:55:22 PM  
I figured incest would be next. It's much simpler than polygamy.
 
2014-01-06 01:57:53 PM  

scottydoesntknow: Meh, the second someone comes up with a legitimate way to handle the property/kids/contract/all that jazz between 3 or more parties, I'll be fine with polygamous marriage. They're consenting adults and all know the situation, so whatever. Just figure out how to work out the little stuff and marry away.



Make the age of consent for marriage no lower than 18, enforce it strictly, and I guess I can't find much to argue with.

Still I'm concerned about some of the social costs of things like, say, some of the fundie mormon communities that the rest of society's forced to bear. Not sure if there's really a legislative solution, though. I guess I'll have to take comfort in believing that those groups are unlikely to grow through converts.
 
2014-01-06 01:58:16 PM  

Mr_Fabulous: How in god's name would that be relevant?


Well, if you're now affected by it it's none of your goddamned business. Same as sodomy laws, gay marriage and legal weed for that matter.

12349876: Let's say guy gets 3 wives. Wife 2 wants to divorce the group. Do wife 1 and 3 have to pay alimony in addition to the guy or not? Do wife 1 and 3 get any visitation with wife 2's kids? What if wife 3 goes to the hospital and man and wife 1 disagree on treatment?


Not your problem. Not your business.
 
2014-01-06 01:58:27 PM  

Jormungandr: scottydoesntknow: Meh, the second someone comes up with a legitimate way to handle the property/kids/contract/all that jazz between 3 or more parties, I'll be fine with polygamous marriage. They're consenting adults and all know the situation, so whatever. Just figure out how to work out the little stuff and marry away.

What's so hard? Stuff acquired after marriage gets divvied up based on fraction leaving vs staying, children stay with the parents best able to take care of them. I would change the law to require couples of all types to meet with a lawyer before marriage to explain exactly how the law works.  Though I am not personally in favour of polygamy. I think polyamory would be better and deal with the whole not enough women to go around. I actually remember in Canada we had a polyamory trial awhile back. One of the lawyers was a woman with two boyfriends that she wanted to marry.


Nice in theory.
But consider the following:
There's a marriage between females A, B, and C, and males D and E.
Female B decides to leave.
Her two children were both fathered by male E.

Then good luck getting females A & C to pay support, let alone male D.
 
2014-01-06 01:58:51 PM  
Ugh!  Polygamy should be illegal because...because...
 
2014-01-06 01:58:51 PM  
The usual argument against a 'man' having multiple wives is that the 'woman' is usually sold to the 'man' at the tender age of 12.
Other is servitude for life. Basic slavery.
Then all the beatings that will continue until she gets him a damn sammich.

All this ignores current laws of at what age you can legally marry and spousal abuse laws(not valid in the Confederacy). Some of these Polygamy people are in communes that are bad for a politicians career as he sends in the fire squad to clear the place out and forgetting that lots and lots of children are in there.

/India sells and marries at 8 years old but usually its only two and both are 8.
//Duck Dynasty turd screams his rights to shag 12 years olds(before they reach 20 years old and they learn they have Rights) is being violated
 
2014-01-06 01:59:10 PM  
Yes, but I'd still have to deal with the effort and consequences.


How about legalize prostitution?

Get your rocks off...and walk away.
Focus on other things.

Bonus, equal for all sexes, races and such.
And you can tax it.
 
2014-01-06 01:59:21 PM  

Muta: Monkeyhouse Zendo: Muta: When can I marry a goat?

When we've genetically engineered goats that are self aware and smart enough to give consent.

I was promised that marrying goats was going to be next.


What about the right to marry our attractive cousins? I thought that was the whole point of America.
 
2014-01-06 01:59:48 PM  
Personally, I fins polygamy to be weird and icky.  Just as I know that hardcore Christians find gay sex to be weird and icky.

In neither case, should laws be created because some segment of the population finds your form of a consensual adult sexual relationship to be icky.  If it involves children under the age of consent, then all laws apply, but beyond that, it's none of my damn business.
 
2014-01-06 02:00:03 PM  
Yeah, there are semi-legimate social stability reasons to limit polygamy.  Having a bunch of young men unable to settle down with a wife and kids because older males have snatched up the available supply of young women isn't the most stable footing for a society.

I don't see it becoming the predominant marriage paradigm though, so whatever floats your boat.  You're all (assumed to be) adults, you can enter into a legally binding contract if you want.
 
2014-01-06 02:02:23 PM  

Muta: Monkeyhouse Zendo: Muta: When can I marry a goat?

When we've genetically engineered goats that are self aware and smart enough to give consent.

I was promised that marrying goats was going to be next.


I thought Stevie Nicks was married at one point.
 
2014-01-06 02:04:13 PM  

Arkanaut: Muta: Monkeyhouse Zendo: Muta: When can I marry a goat?

When we've genetically engineered goats that are self aware and smart enough to give consent.

I was promised that marrying goats was going to be next.

What about the right to marry our attractive cousins? I thought that was the whole point of America.


That is legal in some states.
 
2014-01-06 02:04:36 PM  

USCLaw2010: Who wants more than one wife?


Crazy, crazy people.
 
2014-01-06 02:04:42 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Not your problem. Not your business.


I could care less about it too, but it's the business of the justice system to deal with those issues when the relevant parties have disagreements
 
2014-01-06 02:04:42 PM  
decriminalization is fine; I don't think the unlawful cohabitation laws pass constitutional muster.  However, allowing the rich (and yes, it will be primarily the rich who benefit) to claim even more tax benes than normal people is a non starter.
 
2014-01-06 02:05:13 PM  

pueblonative: decriminalization is fine; I don't think the unlawful cohabitation laws pass constitutional muster.  However, allowing the rich (and yes, it will be primarily the rich who benefit) to claim even more tax benes than normal people is a non starter.


What extra benefits would they be able to claim?
 
2014-01-06 02:05:40 PM  

Muta: When can I marry a goat?


Since 2006, if you don't mind moving to Sudan.
 
2014-01-06 02:05:59 PM  

Jormungandr: scottydoesntknow: Meh, the second someone comes up with a legitimate way to handle the property/kids/contract/all that jazz between 3 or more parties, I'll be fine with polygamous marriage. They're consenting adults and all know the situation, so whatever. Just figure out how to work out the little stuff and marry away.

What's so hard? Stuff acquired after marriage gets divvied up based on fraction leaving vs staying, children stay with the parents best able to take care of them. I would change the law to require couples of all types to meet with a lawyer before marriage to explain exactly how the law works.  Though I am not personally in favour of polygamy. I think polyamory would be better and deal with the whole not enough women to go around. I actually remember in Canada we had a polyamory trial awhile back. One of the lawyers was a woman with two boyfriends that she wanted to marry.


You're assuming a group marriage, which makes things a "leaving vs. staying" situation.  Also, if two people have a child and a third party enters the group marriage later, does the third entrant have any parental rights or responsibilities if one or both biological parent dies?  Also, how do you handle a series of 1-1 marriages that cross - A marries B.  B marries C.  Property and child rights become very tricky if B dies/exits the situation, especially there's no legal contract between A and C.

I'm all for there being a useful legal status that allows for polygamy, I just put forth that there are a number of legal pillars and assumptions we make for 1-1 marriages that become VERY complicated in a group or "string" situation.  It would need to be carefully defined.
 
2014-01-06 02:08:41 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: 12349876: Let's say guy gets 3 wives. Wife 2 wants to divorce the group. Do wife 1 and 3 have to pay alimony in addition to the guy or not? Do wife 1 and 3 get any visitation with wife 2's kids? What if wife 3 goes to the hospital and man and wife 1 disagree on treatment?

Not your problem. Not your business.


it might be.  what if he's a doctor who gets sued by wife 3 when the husband dies because wife 1 and wife 2 can't agree with treatment?

My problem is, that I'm mostly in agreement with your posts in this thread, and that scares me.
 
2014-01-06 02:09:05 PM  
I'm not sure what's so objectionable about polygamy in the first place?  Especially amongst the bible thumper crowd who always go on about traditional marriage.  There is nothing more biblical than a man having multiple wives.

From a real world perspective the only issues I see are:

A) In countries where polygamy is legal, you end u with a large subset of the male population that can't find wives/sex partners due to a small number of rich men scooping up all the eligible females.
B) Issues with divvying up parental responsibility and community property in case of divorce
C) It does seem in theory, that it sets itself up for issues with abuse, where husband + Wife #1 & 2, cover up abuse of wife #3.
 
2014-01-06 02:09:28 PM  

Muta: Monkeyhouse Zendo: Muta: When can I marry a goat?

When we've genetically engineered goats that are self aware and smart enough to give consent.

I was promised that marrying goats was going to be next.


I thought it was turtles.
 
2014-01-06 02:09:40 PM  
The only reason it should remain illegal is because it is cruel and unusual punishment to subject a man to nagging from more than 1 woman.
 
2014-01-06 02:11:02 PM  
It is Adam and Eve not Adam and Eve and Barbara and Ruth and George!
 
2014-01-06 02:11:19 PM  
I have no issue with polygamy (or any other case of marrying who you want).  If we observe how Conservatives are suddenly so "religious freedom" defenders once it comes to Catholics and contraception, then surely they should extend that to Mormons/Muslims and polygamy.
 
2014-01-06 02:11:57 PM  

qorkfiend: pueblonative: decriminalization is fine; I don't think the unlawful cohabitation laws pass constitutional muster.  However, allowing the rich (and yes, it will be primarily the rich who benefit) to claim even more tax benes than normal people is a non starter.

What extra benefits would they be able to claim?


Tax status and dependents for starters.
 
2014-01-06 02:12:18 PM  
Meh...while I fully support same-sex marriage...I'm a little more dubious about polygamy...mostly because of the way FLDS has abused the rights of women and children under the guise of polygamy.
 
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