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(Rolling Stone)   Five common sense economic reforms millennials should be fighting for after they fight to ditch the name "millennials"   (rollingstone.com) divider line 357
    More: Obvious, common sense, reforms, price bubble, personal debt, basic income, egalitarianisms, Wall Street Crash, means of production  
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2775 clicks; posted to Politics » on 06 Jan 2014 at 12:15 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-06 11:39:45 AM  
The guaranteed-minimum-income idea isn't entirely awful if it's meant to replace food stamps etc. with cash equivalents and phase out social-services departments full of hacks and vogons.

The rest is full-blown Chavista idiocy a/k/a par for the course for Jan Wenner.
 
2014-01-06 11:45:46 AM  
This was written by a stoned college freshman.
 
2014-01-06 11:47:19 AM  

James!: This was written by a stoned college freshman.


Whose only other writing credit for Rolling Stone was a piece on Patch Adams
 
2014-01-06 11:51:23 AM  

James!: This was written by a stoned college freshman.


I think you nailed it.

The idea of having public works instead of welfare or unemployment has always seemed like a good one to me, but the article went off the rails after that.
 
2014-01-06 11:52:14 AM  

MrBallou: James!: This was written by a stoned college freshman.

I think you nailed it.

The idea of having public works instead of welfare or unemployment has always seemed like a good one to me, but the article went off the rails after that.


But what if we didn't have landlords, man.  Like how can you own a building?
 
2014-01-06 11:56:54 AM  

James!: Like how can you own a building?


*I* can...but that's because I'm not a penniless hippie!

img.fark.net
 
2014-01-06 11:59:08 AM  
The only thing that article was missing was Lenin.
 
2014-01-06 12:00:32 PM  
Yeah, totes mcgotes, brah! Here are five more that me and Knarf Burger came up with when we were skipping poly sci:

1. All pizza should be subsidized by the government. That way no one goes hungry and we always have za.

2. A chicken in every pot? Eff that, dude, we're talking pot in every chicken. Imagine a rooster all stoned. Cock-a-doodle-doobies, man!

3. Free Wi-Fi. Despite differences in opinion about who should pick up the costs for access, Wi-Fi needs to be more readily available, and even more recognized that we're becoming further dependent on Internet access. Past failed attempts to implement public Wi-Fi in Philadelphia, San Francisco and Chicago may teach us something and get us closer to a finite answer, but the debate continues.

4. Claim boners as dependents.

5. Replace our current coins with chocolate ones. Cadbury Standard, man. That way, when homeless people get their cups filled with change they don't even need to go anywhere to buy food. If it's summer time, when they're done panhandling they already have a fresh cup of hot chocolate. Dawg, if this works, I may become homeless for the perks, dude.
 
2014-01-06 12:06:31 PM  

James!: MrBallou: James!: This was written by a stoned college freshman.

I think you nailed it.

The idea of having public works instead of welfare or unemployment has always seemed like a good one to me, but the article went off the rails after that.

But what if we didn't have landlords, man.  Like how can you own a building?


It's like the Indians, dude. We only live on the land, we can't "own" it. - Hey, don't Bogart the Cheetos, man.
 
2014-01-06 12:07:18 PM  
The RW absolutely lost their minds over this article.
 
2014-01-06 12:11:26 PM  
I'm sorry, but Communism has already been beshiatted
 
2014-01-06 12:12:48 PM  
"Nonetheless, with the exception of Myerson's call for a job guarantee, all of the other reforms he proposes-a universal basic income, a land value tax, a sovereign wealth fund, and public banks-are clearly possible because they already exist in the world."

The Totally Doable Slate of Economic Reforms That Conservatives Are Losing Their Minds Over
 
2014-01-06 12:14:20 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: The RW absolutely lost their minds over this article.


Somebody should tell them that even us card-carrying Libruls think it's ridiculous.

If it wasn't Rolling Stone, I'd think it was an attempt at RW humor. It sounds like the beginning of a John Hawkins editorial where he claims this is what Libruls think so he can shoot it down.
 
2014-01-06 12:20:08 PM  

MrBallou: Dusk-You-n-Me: The RW absolutely lost their minds over this article.

Somebody should tell them that even us card-carrying Libruls think it's ridiculous.

If it wasn't Rolling Stone, I'd think it was an attempt at RW humor. It sounds like the beginning of a John Hawkins editorial where he claims this is what Libruls think so he can shoot it down.


I think (but I cannot be certain) that pretty much most Socialists have abandoned the idea of total public ownership. Now they are more focused on redistribution of money itself and not on possessions of others.
 
2014-01-06 12:20:31 PM  

MrBallou: Somebody should tell them that even us card-carrying Libruls think it's ridiculous.


Well sure, except for all the liberals that don't. Whether or not you agree with these ideas, I like that they pull the conversation to the left. Which I suspect is why the reaction from the right has been so forceful.
 
2014-01-06 12:20:40 PM  

Gulper Eel: The rest is full-blown Chavista idiocy a/k/a par for the course for Jan Wenner.


you know the deal the media has, 1 extremely leftist article for 80,000 extremely right wing articles.

I think this is the first leftist article that actually pushes policy positions I have ever seen on fark.
 
2014-01-06 12:20:43 PM  
I'm okay with ditching the term 'Millennial'. It sounds condescending.

I was born when Reagan was president and the Soviets were a threat....I was born last millennium.
 
2014-01-06 12:22:28 PM  
 
2014-01-06 12:23:14 PM  
rlv.zcache.com
 
2014-01-06 12:25:31 PM  
America's whole socioeconomic system has to be overhauled.
 
2014-01-06 12:27:27 PM  
How would guaranteed jobs work? Would people just do meaningless busy-work? If so, I don't see how that would be any better than a guaranteed income.
 
2014-01-06 12:27:56 PM  

MrBallou: If it wasn't Rolling Stone, I'd think it was an attempt at RW humor. It sounds like the beginning of a John Hawkins editorial where he claims this is what Libruls think so he can shoot it down.


Im actually saving this so I can post it when people talk about Liberal Marxist Communist.


Until I see actual mainstream liberal politicians pushing for this stuff, they can STFU up communist democrats.
 
2014-01-06 12:28:36 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: "Nonetheless, with the exception of Myerson's call for a job guarantee, all of the other reforms he proposes-a universal basic income, a land value tax, a sovereign wealth fund, and public banks-are clearly possible because they already exist in the world."

The Totally Doable Slate of Economic Reforms That Conservatives Are Losing Their Minds Over


The UBI is such an easy fix for SOOO many problems it seems stupid to oppose it. Which is why even conservative, neoclassical economists support a UBI. It's the most streamlined delivery of public welfare services available.

Couple a UBI with universal health care and watch as 30% of our federal bureaucracy evaporates.
 
2014-01-06 12:29:08 PM  
Guaranteed Work for Everybody

i.imgur.com

Thank you Rolling Stone.  Thank you for defining so precisely and succinctly exactly how entitled the Millenials should be.

FTA: "A universal basic income, combined with a job guarantee and other social programs, could make participation in the labor force truly voluntary, thereby enabling people to get a life"

Besides being irretrievably stupid, how exactly do you base an economy off this premise?  Is the money to support all of these people opting out of participation in the work force just going to magically appear?  I think someone has taken their Human Studies classes a little too seriously.
 
2014-01-06 12:30:36 PM  
Was that satire?
 
2014-01-06 12:31:17 PM  

jst3p: Was that satire?


Came here to ask the same question.
 
2014-01-06 12:32:08 PM  

Befuddled: How would guaranteed jobs work? Would people just do meaningless busy-work? If so, I don't see how that would be any better than a guaranteed income.


They'd just farm unemployed people into non-profits.  As a Non-profit career worker I'd like to say "fark that and thanks Rolling Stone for assuming we have no actual skills".
 
2014-01-06 12:33:18 PM  
It's amazing how he could write that entire article without even hinting that Communism or Socialism are already concepts. He even had a section titled "Make Everything Owned By Everybody."

The public bank idea isn't that ridiculous, though.
 
2014-01-06 12:34:45 PM  
Would you expect anything else from a OWS activist?
 
2014-01-06 12:35:01 PM  
Is Rolling Stone trolling us?  Publishing terrible ideas the right wingers can turn into straw-men isn't going to help anything.
 
2014-01-06 12:35:02 PM  

nmrsnr: The public bank idea isn't that ridiculous, though.


The Overton Window is shifting! Progress!
 
2014-01-06 12:35:32 PM  
Ugh, stop conflating employer of last resort and wealth taxes with nonsense like "public ownership of everything" and "the death of wall street."


You are why republicans think that basic social good is "communism."
 
2014-01-06 12:35:41 PM  

AngryDragon: Guaranteed Work for Everybody



Thank you Rolling Stone.  Thank you for defining so precisely and succinctly exactly how entitled the Millenials should be.

FTA: "A universal basic income, combined with a job guarantee and other social programs, could make participation in the labor force truly voluntary, thereby enabling people to get a life"

Besides being irretrievably stupid, how exactly do you base an economy off this premise?  Is the money to support all of these people opting out of participation in the work force just going to magically appear?  I think someone has taken their Human Studies classes a little too seriously.


No, you pay for it with a tax.

Why should a worker pay for a tax for a person to not work?

Because there is simply not enough work to be done. Too many able-bodied and capable people in a post-scarcity society. As technology advances and things become automated, there is less need for labor.

So we can have an increasingly large population attempt to compete for an increasingly smaller number of jobs, or we can choose to bribe people content with the minimum to stay out of the work force while still enabling their participation in a market economy.

Those who want to work will still be making more than the basic income, because the feature is that EVERYONE (including workers) gets a basic income. The CEO of Microsoft? Still gets his $25,000 check on Jan. 1. The single mom in the one-bedroom? Same check.

It streamlines the delivery of the same social welfare expenditures that everyone was receiving, reduces payroll burden on employers, and permits work to be given to those who want it, not those just looking to survive.
 
2014-01-06 12:35:45 PM  

AngryDragon: Besides being irretrievably stupid, how exactly do you base an economy off this premise?  Is the money to support all of these people opting out of participation in the work force just going to magically appear?  I think someone has taken their Human Studies classes a little too seriously.


Every time there is a discussion about forcing companies to raise the minimum wage the response is often yeah but they will just automate everything and fire the lines staff. That same solution could be applied to a progressive tax on capital gains, the shareholders would automate everything to get more gains to pay the taxes of the people that are getting the sustenance cashola.
 
2014-01-06 12:35:51 PM  

AngryDragon: Guaranteed Work for Everybody

[i.imgur.com image 250x272]

Thank you Rolling Stone.  Thank you for defining so precisely and succinctly exactly how entitled the Millenials should be.

FTA: "A universal basic income, combined with a job guarantee and other social programs, could make participation in the labor force truly voluntary, thereby enabling people to get a life"

Besides being irretrievably stupid, how exactly do you base an economy off this premise?  Is the money to support all of these people opting out of participation in the work force just going to magically appear?  I think someone has taken their Human Studies classes a little too seriously.


See, some people believe that people will work if given the choice. Some people think that everyone is lazy and won't work if given the choice. In my experience, I find that most people would like to be productive in some capacity, as would I. (In other words, if given the choice between a basic income payment and a job, I would take a job, even if it were back breaking labor and I was still physically able). I have a sneaking suspicion that the people who think that everyone is lazy and won't work given the choice are lazy and won't work if given the choice.
 
2014-01-06 12:37:29 PM  
Seems like a good article to separate left from center to me.
 
2014-01-06 12:37:32 PM  

jst3p: Was that satire?


From and Occupy Wall Street activist?
 
2014-01-06 12:38:15 PM  

HeadLever: Would you expect anything else from a OWS activist?


And yet each one of these ideas would help more people than any right wing policy idea I have ever heard.
 
2014-01-06 12:38:23 PM  

MrBallou: James!: This was written by a stoned college freshman.

I think you nailed it.

The idea of having public works instead of welfare or unemployment has always seemed like a good one to me, but the article went off the rails after that.


nmrsnr: It's amazing how he could write that entire article without even hinting that Communism or Socialism are already concepts. He even had a section titled "Make Everything Owned By Everybody."

The public bank idea isn't that ridiculous, though.


I've been a big fan of publics works/job training in place of or in conjunction with welfare for a while. Obviously neither is a complete substitute for the other. There will always be people who cannot work, and there will usually be people who want to work but  can't find work.

The public bank is a decent option as well. Private banks are backed by FDIC. This just cuts out the middle man. As long as it's not the only banking option, I'd like to read more about it, at the very least.

If I were a millenial, and I am, I'd also be pushing for reigning in educational spending and costs, particularly post secondary education.
 
2014-01-06 12:38:27 PM  

Befuddled: How would guaranteed jobs work? Would people just do meaningless busy-work? If so, I don't see how that would be any better than a guaranteed income.


There's plenty of work the US needs done. Infrastructure repair for just one example.

My only concern is guaranteeing someone a job, say repairing a bridge or overpass for a government paycheck, doesn't guarantee they know wtf they're doing. I mean, yeah I'm sure there'd be some ditch digging to do, but there'd be a lot more skilled positions that needed filled too. And people who are long term unemployed wouldn't be able to fill those positions. So can we guarantee jobs to everyone and actually have work they're all qualified to do? I guess in Rolling Stone commie land we can.
 
2014-01-06 12:40:03 PM  
What's wrong with guaranteed work? Those that have a problem with it are you suggesting that some people don't deserve to work? You like people to be unemployed? Does it give you a sense of superiority that there are people beneath you, because hey as long as you aren't last you're in the middle class!!!
 
2014-01-06 12:40:17 PM  

Headso: HeadLever: Would you expect anything else from a OWS activist?

And yet each one of these ideas would help more people than any right wing policy idea I have ever heard.


Depends, their ideas are beneficial if you have a high net worth or make over 200k a year on mostly capital gains income.
 
2014-01-06 12:40:23 PM  

Befuddled: How would guaranteed jobs work? Would people just do meaningless busy-work? If so, I don't see how that would be any better than a guaranteed income.


You don't think there's work people can do? I mean, even at the most, most basic level, you could hire people to just be butlers.
 
2014-01-06 12:40:39 PM  

nmrsnr: It's amazing how he could write that entire article without even hinting that Communism or Socialism are already concepts. He even had a section titled "Make Everything Owned By Everybody."

The public bank idea isn't that ridiculous, though.


...none of them are Communist or Socialist. Or is this one of those meta things where you're making fun of people who think taxes and the post office make us just like Lenin?
 
2014-01-06 12:40:44 PM  

HeadLever: jst3p: Was that satire?

From and Occupy Wall Street activist?


Yeah, and satire doesn't typically incorporate 1 or 2 not-terrible(to the extent of leading to the death of millions) ideas from actual people who understand economies.
 
2014-01-06 12:40:53 PM  
I would have guessed a 32-hour work week and mandatory 4 weeks paid vacation. And maybe single-payer healthcare.

We really need a new labor movement in the US.

/TFA was fairly useless as far as realistic ideas
 
2014-01-06 12:41:13 PM  

Soup4Bonnie: Seems like a good article to separate left from center to me.


I just don't know any Lefties who would seriously suggest going that far.

Just because the Right Wing fringe goes way off into LooneyLand doesn't mean the Left Wing needs to. It just feeds the Both Sides Are Bad bullshiat.
 
2014-01-06 12:42:40 PM  

DamnYankees: Befuddled: How would guaranteed jobs work? Would people just do meaningless busy-work? If so, I don't see how that would be any better than a guaranteed income.

You don't think there's work people can do? I mean, even at the most, most basic level, you could hire people to just be butlers.


What about those of us who already have too many butlers? Did you think about that? Fark is always so insensitive to the plight(s) of the bourgeois
 
2014-01-06 12:42:54 PM  

Needlessly Complicated: /TFA was fairly useless as far as realistic ideas


These ideas already exist in the real world. I think that satisfies the definition of realistic.
 
2014-01-06 12:43:48 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: The RW absolutely lost their minds over this article.


And for good reason - it's complete hogwash. The Rolling Stone typically shows a reasonably high level of journalistic integrity. Either this one slipped under the radar or it was a plant. In either case, it's a moronic embarrassment and they need to distance themselves from it.
 
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