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(NBC News)   Seattle's mystery of unknown underground object that stopped its big borer Bertha has been solved, and it's the definition of an anticlimax   (usnews.nbcnews.com) divider line 90
    More: Followup, Seattle, Downtown Seattle, tunnels, boilers, United States Department of Transportation  
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18672 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Jan 2014 at 9:21 AM (38 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



90 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-01-06 09:14:30 AM
Bloggers/columnists that were speculating ancient artifact/crashed alien ship ("nothing human-made could be so tough!")/secret bunker will learn from this episode... absolutely nothing.
 
2014-01-06 09:19:33 AM
That's boring.
 
2014-01-06 09:23:03 AM
It's a streetlight test well
 
2014-01-06 09:23:16 AM
Of COURSE that's what the media's going to say. If it told the truth, there'd be chaos in the streets.
 
2014-01-06 09:23:37 AM
an·ti·cli·max
ˌantēˈklīˌmaks,ˌantī-/
noun
noun: anticlimax; plural noun: anticlimaxes; noun: anti-climax; plural noun: anti-climaxes
1
.
a disappointing end to an exciting or impressive series of events, usually involving a large pipe.


Huh, look at that.
 
2014-01-06 09:23:57 AM
That's what they want us to think, but we know better!
 
2014-01-06 09:24:09 AM
I'm curious as to what they will do... can the pipe be removed, or will they reroute Bertha?
 
2014-01-06 09:24:32 AM
Media speculated it was ancient artifacts worthy of Indiana Jones, I doubt the constructions company though it was anything other than a big rock or metal pipe.
 
2014-01-06 09:24:57 AM
"We need to investigate further to see if there are other factors that could have contributed to the blockage,"  Matt Preedy, a deputy administrator on the project, said in a statement.

So they're not ruling out aliens...
 
2014-01-06 09:26:37 AM

czetie: Bloggers/columnists that were speculating ancient artifact/crashed alien ship ("nothing human-made could be so tough!")/secret bunker will learn from this episode... absolutely nothing.


I'm not sure where they get off making that claim, because it was a steel pipe and according to the same type of people steel is so tough that it can't even be melted by fire.

/9/11 was an inside job! Well, inside the ground. Under Seattle. Where it was a steel pipe. Grumble grumble sheeple grumble...
 
2014-01-06 09:28:37 AM
they clearly didn't call 811 first.

www.callbeforeyoudig.org
 
2014-01-06 09:31:10 AM
mole men?
 
2014-01-06 09:32:20 AM

docmattic: I'm curious as to what they will do... can the pipe be removed, or will they reroute Bertha?


You can't reroute a giant borer like that. They'll have to send workers into the high pressure area around the cutter head to repair the damaged cutters and maybe remove the pipe.

From what I understand it's like working in a deep sea pressure environment. Bertha is under the water table and groundwater pressure is immense, which is why they had to drill a bunch of wells and pump water out to reduce the pressure.
 
2014-01-06 09:32:35 AM
BORE---ing
 
2014-01-06 09:32:40 AM
Bah. Well at least no one took my tungsten bet.
 
2014-01-06 09:32:42 AM
My definition of anti-climax is a naked 90 year-old grandma eating shredded wheat, her teeth in a glass next to the bowl.  So this doesn't match.
 
2014-01-06 09:33:09 AM

doublesecretprobation: they clearly didn't call 811 first.

www.callbeforeyoudig.org


That made me chuckle.
 
2014-01-06 09:33:36 AM
Why are these big machines always called Bertha? Why not Lucy, or Mathilda?
 
2014-01-06 09:33:40 AM
Geraldo's tomb?
 
2014-01-06 09:34:36 AM

dustygrimp: My definition of anti-climax is a naked 90 year-old grandma eating shredded wheat, her teeth in a glass next to the bowl.  So this doesn't match.


fc06.deviantart.net
 
2014-01-06 09:34:43 AM

poorjon: czetie: Bloggers/columnists that were speculating ancient artifact/crashed alien ship ("nothing human-made could be so tough!")/secret bunker will learn from this episode... absolutely nothing.

I'm not sure where they get off making that claim, because it was a steel pipe and according to the same type of people steel is so tough that it can't even be melted by fire.

/9/11 was an inside job! Well, inside the ground. Under Seattle. Where it was a steel pipe. Grumble grumble sheeple grumble...


Nicely played.

Perhaps the so-called pipe is actually where they buried the indestructible debris from the Twin Towers to conceal the evidence as far from New York as possible?

Amusingly, it does seem to be a hallmark of conspiracy nuts that they are able to hold mutually contradictory positions at one time. I used to know one who believed that (a) Phil the Greek had Diana killed and (b) she isn't really dead, she faked it to escape from public scrutiny.
 
2014-01-06 09:35:02 AM
Well well well. That was boring.
 
2014-01-06 09:35:34 AM

dustygrimp: My definition of anti-climax is a naked 90 year-old grandma eating shredded wheat, her teeth in a glass next to the bowl.  So this doesn't match.


shechive.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-01-06 09:37:47 AM

Bslim: Why are these big machines always called Bertha? Why not Lucy, or Mathilda?


Large Lucy or Massive Mathilda just don't have the same ring to them
 
2014-01-06 09:38:06 AM

dustygrimp: My definition of anti-climax is a naked 90 year-old grandma eating shredded wheat, her teeth in a glass next to the bowl.  So this doesn't match.


25.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-01-06 09:38:28 AM
i44.tinypic.com
 
2014-01-06 09:38:40 AM
Yeah but who put it there?
 
2014-01-06 09:39:14 AM
"It could be Jimmy Hoffa, it might be Sasquatch or it could be a flying saucer, you know," local historian Feliks Banel told NBC News last month, more than a little tongue in cheek.

I'm glad they added that caveat, I would have thought him serious otherwise.

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-01-06 09:39:22 AM
This doesn't address anything. Has anyone seen a picture of the supposed pipe? Has anyone heard from anyone NOT involved with the project that it was a pipe? It should not have taken them this long to determine that it was a pipe that is marked on the utility survey of the dig route. This smells of cover-up.
 
2014-01-06 09:45:27 AM
I was hoping for a vault of advanced alien technology. Siiiiiigh.
 
2014-01-06 09:47:14 AM

Cyclometh: docmattic: I'm curious as to what they will do... can the pipe be removed, or will they reroute Bertha?

You can't reroute a giant borer like that. They'll have to send workers into the high pressure area around the cutter head to repair the damaged cutters and maybe remove the pipe.

From what I understand it's like working in a deep sea pressure environment. Bertha is under the water table and groundwater pressure is immense, which is why they had to drill a bunch of wells and pump water out to reduce the pressure.


According to the article, what they're drilling through is industrial filler. It was above ground until pretty recently. They should be well above the water table.
 
2014-01-06 09:48:57 AM
This will be Obama's Watergate
 
2014-01-06 09:49:30 AM
You know, this is exactly how Reign of Fire started out.....
 
2014-01-06 09:50:04 AM

texdent: That's boring.


img.fark.net

It's a boring machine.
 
2014-01-06 09:50:07 AM

czetie: Perhaps the so-called pipe is actually where they buried the indestructible debris from the Twin Towers to conceal the evidence as far from New York as possible?


Nah. If anything it was where they were storing those reflective stripes they put on stop signs to tell the UN where to go when they invade to take our guns. The next step in the plan is for the UN to pawn the seized guns to buy themselves a GPS.

/Which they will use to guide the airplanes which disperse the genetically modified BPA-containing gluten which is either giving our children a case of teh ghey or irritated bowels depending on if you fear BPA or gluten more.
 
2014-01-06 09:53:39 AM
 Wait until they hit the toxic waste in rusting 55 gallon drums.
 
2014-01-06 09:54:32 AM
I'm still trying to figure out who was disappointed after expecting some sort of "climax" because a piece of drilling machinery was blocked... who built this up, in their minds, to the point where, after being told it was just an 8" well pipe, went "...are kidding? That's it? I waited breathlessly for the news and received... this? Damn, man, damn."
 
2014-01-06 09:55:32 AM

memebot_of_doom: texdent: That's boring.

[img.fark.net image 580x387]

It's a boring machine.


And TFA says it's a "two-mile long boring journey".

Sheesh, kids these days. Can't even keep themselves entertained for a two-mile journey.
 
2014-01-06 09:58:16 AM
OK, back the 50 million dollar boring machine out and I'll climb down there and cut it off with a sawzall

Thing can chew through rocks but a small metal pipe stops it?
 
2014-01-06 10:07:17 AM

Interceptor1: Wait until they hit the toxic waste in rusting 55 gallon drums.




Nah that's on the shore of the Columbia River, one of the largest river systems on the continent. And it's been actively leaking for a long time.
 
2014-01-06 10:08:59 AM
Am I the only one slightly disappointed that the headline wasn't a clever pun on a geologic formation?

/not that it's not a good headline just a little...anticlimactic
//sorry
 
2014-01-06 10:13:07 AM

generallyso: Interceptor1: Wait until they hit the toxic waste in rusting 55 gallon drums.

Nah that's on the shore of the Columbia River, one of the largest river systems on the continent. And it's been actively leaking for a long time.


That shiat is everywhere.   There are a bunch of drums just off the Cedar River (Seattle watershed, booyah!)  leftover from the 60s and 70s.   The "cleanup plan" is for the companies that put it there to come in and bury them good.
 
2014-01-06 10:15:19 AM
communicategood.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-01-06 10:22:13 AM
Seattle has a big boner named Bertha?
 
2014-01-06 10:27:01 AM

Tax Boy: [communicategood.files.wordpress.com image 357x340]


Came to post this, damnit.
 
2014-01-06 10:37:10 AM

DavyBoySmith: BORE---ing


2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-01-06 10:42:12 AM

Cybernetic: memebot_of_doom: texdent: That's boring.

[img.fark.net image 580x387]

It's a boring machine.

And TFA says it's a "two-mile long boring journey".

Sheesh, kids these days. Can't even keep themselves entertained for a two-mile journey.


Or as Peter Jackson likes to call it, a nine-hour trilogy.
 
2014-01-06 10:46:35 AM
Everybody submitted this story with a climactic headline.
 
2014-01-06 10:52:49 AM

Warthog: This doesn't address anything. Has anyone seen a picture of the supposed pipe? Has anyone heard from anyone NOT involved with the project that it was a pipe? It should not have taken them this long to determine that it was a pipe that is marked on the utility survey of the dig route. This smells of cover-up.


OH, there are layers of subterfuge here, my friend. Yes, it's a steel pipe, but they're hiding in plain sight. What they don't want you to know is how the steel pipe got there.

It was part of the plumbing system for the secret underground facility where they kept a captured alien ship and its very-much-alive occupants until they were moved to Dugway, Utah in the newly refurbished "Area 51"-style facility there. When they shut down the old site, they must have missed this pipe. Watch for certain contractors in the area to quietly disappear over the next few weeks.

This project was secretly run by the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, so expect Darrell Issa to be coming out will new Benghazi charges soon. That was all part of the plan from the very beginning to divert attention away from what he's actually up to.
 
2014-01-06 10:53:37 AM
zzzzzzzz-snork-zzzzzzz
 
2014-01-06 10:58:42 AM
Running into another pipe while drilling is never a good thing, unless maybe if your bi-sexual.
 
2014-01-06 11:10:33 AM
The borer is 60 feet below the surface in an area that actually was above ground when the city was founded but got buried in waves of industrial growth and redevelopment.

So, what, they are going to drill another 10 feet and hit mystery number two?
 
2014-01-06 11:17:07 AM
Saw "anticlimax." Expected faked orgasm.
 
2014-01-06 11:18:04 AM
Did nobody call the "Call before you dig" number? Nor...say, drive to the spot where the tunneler stopped and see "oh look there's a well here."
 
2014-01-06 11:18:49 AM

MikeBoomshadow: Saw "anticlimax." Expected faked orgasm.


Anticlimax is what I expect hipsters have instead of orgasms. Or maybe that's too ironic for them...
 
2014-01-06 11:19:10 AM

Cyclometh: From what I understand it's like working in a deep sea pressure environment. Bertha is under the water table and groundwater pressure is immense, which is why they had to drill a bunch of wells and pump water out to reduce the pressure.


It's 65 feet down. The water pressure will be approximately that of being 65 feet down. That's recreational diving depth, not deep sea depth.
 
2014-01-06 11:24:38 AM
This story is actually now a candidate for the dumbass tag. Per another article on this, the pipe is in a place that is detailed in documentation provided to all of the contractors prior to the start of the project.
 
2014-01-06 11:25:25 AM
Oh well.
 
2014-01-06 11:35:16 AM
If only there was some kind of diagram, a map if you will, of places where well permits were granted, available somewhere reasonably to the government, like the King County P&Z
 
2014-01-06 11:38:04 AM

generallyso: I was hoping for a vault of advanced alien technology. Siiiiiigh.


I share your sense of disappointment, I was hoping for a large rock.

dustygrimp: My definition of anti-climax is a naked 90 year-old grandma eating shredded wheat, her teeth in a glass next to the bowl.  So this doesn't match.


img.fark.net
 
2014-01-06 11:52:48 AM
The interesting thing is how they forgot the pipe for ~12 years.

The true story of that will make you sit up and take notice.
 
2014-01-06 11:58:04 AM

Rent Party: You know, this is exactly how Reign of Fire started out.....


I said that in the original thread about this.  The being immolated thing would suck, but you gotta admit, having dragons around would frickin' rock.
 
2014-01-06 12:00:34 PM

Cyclometh: From what I understand it's like working in a deep sea pressure environment. Bertha is under the water table and groundwater pressure is immense, which is why they had to drill a bunch of wells and pump water out to reduce the pressure.


Just how deep do you think the sea is?  100 feet or so?
 
2014-01-06 12:16:17 PM

Evil Twin Skippy: MikeBoomshadow: Saw "anticlimax." Expected faked orgasm.

Anticlimax is what I expect hipsters have instead of orgasms. Or maybe that's too ironic for them...


That's why hipsters have to keep to their own.  If we let one hook up with a normal person and an anticlimax collides with a climax it could cause a climax annihilation reaction which can be quite a big bang.
 
2014-01-06 12:32:33 PM

trappedspirit: The borer is 60 feet below the surface in an area that actually was above ground when the city was founded but got buried in waves of industrial growth and redevelopment.

So, what, they are going to drill another 10 feet and hit mystery number two?


Apparently.  Fill from the industrial revolution basically means a trash landfill.  Most cities from the era have large swaths of reclaimed land made from trash dumping and throwing river/harbor dredging on top.  Boston and NY have changed quite a bit due to it.

They are also the areas most likely to liquefy into a rubble pit during a good sized earthquake.

Did they ever say ow they;re justifying a multi-billion dollar tunnel that runs next to a fault line that wrecked the last road infrastructure so bad that they needed to do this?  I'm guessing you really don't want to be in this thing when the next big one hits and the pumps go out seeing as it's through fill, next to faults in CA, and under the groundwater table.
 
2014-01-06 12:44:45 PM

Warthog: This doesn't address anything. Has anyone seen a picture of the supposed pipe? Has anyone heard from anyone NOT involved with the project that it was a pipe? It should not have taken them this long to determine that it was a pipe that is marked on the utility survey of the dig route. This smells of cover-up.


Not to mention they keep referring to it as a "boring machine" rather than a "tunneling machine." It's as if they want us to think there's nothing interesting going on, telling us "there's nothing to see here, move along. Just a boring old machine - go back to your lamestream media, sheeple"  That's a sure sign they're hiding something.  And who could smoke anything out of an eight-inch diameter pipe, unless they were like thirty feet tall?  Not only are we dealing with aliens, we're dealing with HUGE aliens.
 
2014-01-06 12:54:07 PM

trappedspirit: Cyclometh: From what I understand it's like working in a deep sea pressure environment. Bertha is under the water table and groundwater pressure is immense, which is why they had to drill a bunch of wells and pump water out to reduce the pressure.

Just how deep do you think the sea is?  100 feet or so?


You are aware that there is a difference between groundwater pressure and open water pressure, right?

The reason this problem has delayed the boring project for a month and a half is because they had to dig multiple wells and pump massive amounts of water to lower the water table enough to get into the chamber at the front of the boring machine. They apparently had to lower the water table around the machine by over sixty feet.

Just the act of pumping all that water out caused the Alaskan Way viaduct on the surface to sink by a tenth of a inch.

From:
http://www.king5.com/news/cities/seattle/Work-around-Bertha-causes-v ia duct-to-sink-slightly-238160301.html

"We've lowered the water table enough that we think we can get in there under atmospheric conditions... to see what's blocking our progress," said Sowers. "

Because the TBM is under the water table, the cutting head is under immense pressure from groundwater, but the cutting head and the machine act as a plug while the drilling is going on. Once it was blocked, they couldn't just open it or back it up (I'm pretty sure it doesn't even GO backward).

Bertha is a slurry-type TBM (Tunnel Boring Machine), that uses pressure against the cutting face, injects water and (I think) bentonite into the space around the cutting heads, and pumps the resulting slurry out to be hauled off and separated. It's called an "earth-pressure balance" type, which means it maintains the pressure against the earth around it, and the tunnel segments are added as the drill moves forward, keeping the softer soil from subsiding above the tunnel.

Here's a webpage from the folks who made the thing. It's the largest in the world of its type:  http://www.hitachizosen.co.jp/english/pickup/pickup008.html
 
2014-01-06 12:57:06 PM
 
2014-01-06 12:58:13 PM

Bslim: Why are these big machines always called Bertha? Why not Lucy, or Mathilda?


It was named after Mayor Bertha Landes, first female mayor of Seattle.

TyrantII:
Apparently.  Fill from the industrial revolution basically means a trash landfill.  Most cities from the era have large swaths of reclaimed land made from trash dumping and throwing river/harbor dredging on top.  Boston and NY have changed quite a bit due to it.

They are also the areas most likely to liquefy into a rubble pit during a good sized earthquake.

Did they ever say ow they;re justifying a multi-billion dollar tunnel that runs next to a fault line that wrecked the last road infrastructure so bad that they needed to do this?  I'm guessing you really don't want to be in this thing when the next big one hits and the pumps go out seeing as it's through fill, next to faults in CA, and under the groundwater table.


Voters didn't want to rebuild the skyway-style viaduct that previously existed, nor did they want a cut-and-cover tunnel like the Boston Big Dig. So the state imposed a bored tunnel by fiat, essentially. Failure mode for anything besides flat road at ground level in an earthquake is going to kill you, anyway, so I don't see how drowning in a tunnel flood makes you any less dead than falling off of an overpass/having an overpass fall on you. At least this way, they can use downtown Seattle for something other than Canada-California migration.
 
2014-01-06 01:04:07 PM
I said it would be some forgotten steel. I just expected it to be the rebar inside a concrete pier. The cutter is made for rock and soil, which have none of the ductility of steel.
 
2014-01-06 01:17:30 PM
A couple of things on this story that I've seen over the past few days that, scanning the thread, no one has mentioned (if it has been mentioned my apologies)

First: the casing that damaged Bertha was installed by the Alaskan Way Viaduct project as part of a monitor well during the planning phase. Supposedly (according to the government), the location of that well and the fact that the casing was still in place was passed along as part of the specifications on the project to the contractor. The contractor has basically said that they assumed the casing had been removed and has implied that it's the government's fault for being lazy and not pulling the casing.

But the short of it is, Bertha took a large amount of damage that has brought tunneling to a halt because of organizational amnesia and miscommunication.

The second thing is the pipe itself. People think an 8" diameter pipe is tiny. I've worked on a small rotary drill rig setting 4" casing before, and let me tell you 8" casing is pretty significant. A 5' length of 4" casing weighs several hundred pounds and is almost too heavy for two men to carry unaided, and unless you're an experienced driller with enormous forearms, it's too heavy to spin onto the drill string by hand. It is an absolute biatch to work with.

So if Bertha ran into 8" casing across the length of its entire cutting face, that's somewhere in the neighborhood of several thousand lbs of steel that have now farked up the cutting heads.
 
2014-01-06 01:25:37 PM

Elegy: So if Bertha ran into 8" casing across the length of its entire cutting face, that's somewhere in the neighborhood of several thousand lbs of steel that have now farked up the cutting heads.


And according to my understanding, that's why they had to pump the groundwater down so they could remove the slurry paste from behind the cutting head- so they could figure out what went on, and repair the damage. Under normal conditions they can change or replace cutting heads, but that's done under high pressure in conditions similar to deep-sea diving, and they probably couldn't do it safely when dealing with something on this scale.
 
2014-01-06 01:33:14 PM
www.fantasticreviews.com
 
2014-01-06 01:41:01 PM
I'm curious to know why they didn't know about the pipe before they started digging. It's not like the pipe has been there for a hundred years, it's only been there since 2002! Didn't they do their homework (percolation tests, etc.)????
 
2014-01-06 02:31:20 PM

bratface: I'm curious to know why they didn't know about the pipe before they started digging. It's not like the pipe has been there for a hundred years, it's only been there since 2002! Didn't they do their homework (percolation tests, etc.)????


Covered in my post above - chalk it up to miscommunication and organizational amnesia.

The government installed that well to monitor groundwater levels during the planning phase of the tunneling project. Supposedly, they told the contractor, but the contractor assumed the casing had been removed and never checked it.

In short: Big Bertha ran over a well casing that an earlier phase of the very same project had installed, in preparation for Big Bertha drilling in the area.
 
2014-01-06 03:46:07 PM

Elegy: bratface: I'm curious to know why they didn't know about the pipe before they started digging. It's not like the pipe has been there for a hundred years, it's only been there since 2002! Didn't they do their homework (percolation tests, etc.)????

Covered in my post above - chalk it up to miscommunication and organizational amnesia.

The government installed that well to monitor groundwater levels during the planning phase of the tunneling project. Supposedly, they told the contractor, but the contractor assumed the casing had been removed and never checked it.

In short: Big Bertha ran over a well casing that an earlier phase of the very same project had installed, in preparation for Big Bertha drilling in the area.


Thanks Elegy, sometimes I just do not want to read all of the responses. But why do these people always have to pass the buck? Everybody screwed up but it will be the taxpayers who will suffer from the incompetence.
 
2014-01-06 04:33:27 PM

bratface: But why do these people always have to pass the buck? Everybody screwed up but it will be the taxpayers who will suffer from the incompetence.


That's what lawyers are for. There will be contractors suing subcontractors suing contractors suing the guy that made the pipe.
 
2014-01-06 04:55:19 PM

abhorrent1: Yeah but who put it there?


ALIENS?!?!
 
2014-01-06 05:04:16 PM
Has anyone blamed Bush yet?
 
2014-01-06 05:11:25 PM
Great, I don't sign in for weeks, and now Fark reminds me how old I am.

Elegy: A couple of things on this story that I've seen over the past few days that, scanning the thread, no one has mentioned (if it has been mentioned my apologies)

First: the casing that damaged Bertha was installed by the Alaskan Way Viaduct project as part of a monitor well during the planning phase. Supposedly (according to the government), the location of that well and the fact that the casing was still in place was passed along as part of the specifications on the project to the contractor. The contractor has basically said that they assumed the casing had been removed and has implied that it's the government's fault for being lazy and not pulling the casing.

But the short of it is, Bertha took a large amount of damage that has brought tunneling to a halt because of organizational amnesia and miscommunication.

The second thing is the pipe itself. People think an 8" diameter pipe is tiny. I've worked on a small rotary drill rig setting 4" casing before, and let me tell you 8" casing is pretty significant. A 5' length of 4" casing weighs several hundred pounds and is almost too heavy for two men to carry unaided, and unless you're an experienced driller with enormous forearms, it's too heavy to spin onto the drill string by hand. It is an absolute biatch to work with.

So if Bertha ran into 8" casing across the length of its entire cutting face, that's somewhere in the neighborhood of several thousand lbs of steel that have now farked up the cutting heads.


There's still a chance that is has screwed up the machine to a point that it can't be fixed.

It happens with these amazing machines, the Chunnel had one break down, and they had to go around it.
 
2014-01-06 05:13:03 PM

FormlessOne: I'm still trying to figure out who was disappointed after expecting some sort of "climax" because a piece of drilling machinery was blocked... who built this up, in their minds, to the point where, after being told it was just an 8" well pipe, went "...are kidding? That's it? I waited breathlessly for the news and received... this? Damn, man, damn."


And I'd forgotten all about it.
/We obviously need updates soonerish.
//For us oldfarks.
///Ikiad
 
2014-01-06 05:39:05 PM

bratface: Didn't they do their homework (percolation tests, etc.)


How does a perc-test detect an abandoned well casing exactly?
 
2014-01-06 06:08:12 PM
So.... people are going to jail for this, right?

Right?

Oh, no. That's right. Even though this object was known to exist.
 
2014-01-06 06:26:33 PM

firemanbuck: bratface: Didn't they do their homework (percolation tests, etc.)

How does a perc-test detect an abandoned well casing exactly?


Did you do miss the etc. part? Usually etc. means 'other/more'. The percolation test was just the only thing that sprung to mind at the time.
 
2014-01-06 06:26:47 PM
telescoper.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-01-06 07:14:29 PM

abhorrent1: Yeah but who put it there?


The more important question is not "who", but "when was it put there".
What if it's an ordinary steel pipe... from the FUTURE?!?!
 
2014-01-07 01:10:52 AM

BEER_ME_in_CT: Thing can chew through rocks but a small metal pipe stops it?


Steel vs the stone age

Steel wins
 
2014-01-07 10:29:47 AM
phyrkrakr:

Voters didn't want to rebuild the skyway-style viaduct that previously existed, nor did they want a cut-and-cover tunnel like the Boston Big Dig. So the state imposed a bored tunnel by fiat, essentially. Failure mode for anything besides flat road at ground level in an earthquake is going to kill you, anyway, so I don't see how drowning in a tunnel flood makes you any less dead than falling off of an overpass/having an overpass fall on you. At least this way, they can use downtown Seattle for something other than Canada-California migration.

I don't disagree, but spending 6 billion on something that will fold like a wet sock when SHTF vs a much cheaper options seems stupid.  Especially with the current risk of 100/1000 year quakes.
 
2014-01-07 12:23:23 PM

TyrantII: phyrkrakr:

I don't disagree, but spending 6 billion on something that will fold like a wet sock when SHTF vs a much cheaper options seems stupid.  Especially with the current risk of 100/1000 year quakes.


The tunnel is designed to withstand a 9.0.

Problem is, when Cascadia cuts loose again, it's going to be a 9.2.
 
2014-01-07 07:41:40 PM

bratface: firemanbuck: bratface: Didn't they do their homework (percolation tests, etc.)

How does a perc-test detect an abandoned well casing exactly?

Did you do miss the etc. part? Usually etc. means 'other/more'. The percolation test was just the only thing that sprung to mind at the time.


You might as well have used "roofing", etc. for all the sense the original post made.
 
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