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22502 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Jan 2014 at 11:30 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:    more»

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ArcadianRefugee: 8 inches: InterruptingQuirk: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 476x293]

I must have watched that scene 100 times and still could never figure it out. Was there an actual solution?

The classic "one lies, one tells the truth" puzzle is solved like this:

Ask one what the other guy would say were you to ask "Which is the safe door?"

I.e., ask either, "What would the other guy say if I were to ask him 'Which is the safe door?'?"

* if asked directly, Truth Guy would answer truthfully and point to the good door, so Lie Guy, when asked "What would the other guy say...", would lie and say that Truth Guy would indicate the bad door.

* if asked directly, Lie Guy would lie and indicate the bad door, so Truth Guy, when asked "What would the other guy say..." would tell the truth and say that Lie Guy would indicate the bad door.

Thus, either way, you know that the safe door is the door not pointed out.

ha! I didn't get the reference in that image (and didn't care to image search it). Figures I'd end up re-posting the same riddle.

MagicBoris: [imgs.xkcd.com image 303x332]

/The file itself is .png, make of it what you will.

8 inches: InterruptingQuirk: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 476x293]

I must have watched that scene 100 times and still could never figure it out.  Was there an actual solution?

Yes.

Ker_Thwap: Every high school should have required courses in statistics, logic, and debating.

We're lucky if they can read without moving their lips, and now you want our educational system to make them think? They only care about the three Ps; Pot, Playstation, Pussy.

derpy: MagicBoris: [imgs.xkcd.com image 303x332]

/The file itself is .png, make of it what you will.

I'm down with .ott

waterrockets: Classic 90s-style software engineering interview question:

You're in a land full of people who are each either 100% honest or 100% dishonest. Honest folks will always tell the truth, and dishonest will always tell you a lie. You're traveling on a road, and reach a fork. One direction leads to eternal happiness, and the other to a painful death. At the fork are two people: one is honest, and one is dishonest, but you don't know which is which, and both know which fork to take to happiness.

What can you ask them any question you like to determine which direction to take. What do you ask them?

I always liked the Gagne answer from his Neverwinter Nights mod: "What's 1+1?", followed in this case by "Which road leads to happiness?".

You didn't say that you could only ask one question, and the traditional question  (which one would the other guy say ...) presupposes a certain amount of intelligence from the respondent.

Mitch Taylor's Bro: Z-clipped: doglover: Private_Citizen: "How to lie with statistics" was first published in 1954. It's just as relevant today as it was then.

/should be mandatory reading in high school.

Would you read a book called "What Color Is The Sky?" that merely explained how the sky was in fact blue?

Statistics are lies. You can make them prove anything you want. The only reason they work in science is because everyone's trying to prove everyone else wrong so THEY get the precious grant money.

You're not helping.

This kind of blind cynicism is nearly as bad as caused by a lack of critical thinking.

Thinking is hard, therefore I am not going to do it anymore and will just shiat on every sciencey topic for the rest of my life.

I was tempted to ask if he could explain to a six-year-old why the sky is blue, but attacking his analogy seemed a little petty, even with the tasty irony of it.

I think that when advertising agencies were created, they took misrepresentation and exaggeration to whole new levels, going far beyond the limits of the old Snake Oil Salesmen. I mean, after all, now they had a pool of specially trained people to make a pile of shiat seem like a pile of pure gold to the general public.

Today, we have Professional Pitchmen also. Basically, highly paid liars. Social Psychiatry became a field back in the early 60's and the advertising business just boomed as they learned of all sorts of ways to manipulate various people.

Actually, it's sad and disturbing, to realize that so many of the businesses we depend on will readily exaggerate the claims of their products (lie) to get more sales.

Somewhere in the 70's, as the technology changed, we discovered that polls could easily be influenced no matter what people actually said and TV news programs -- once a bastion of reliability -- could use the new video tape medium to ask the 'man on the street' and then leave the 'wrong answers' on the cutting room floor.

Since then, an entire business culture has grown up based on misdirection of information to enhance things in the client's favor. It's even easier now with computer graphics and sophisticated art programs easily downloaded from the Internet. (Photoshop, The Gimp, Pixarra Twistedbrush, and more.)

Now, rush on out and buy those Orgreenic Frying Pans -- whose no-stick properties seem to vanish after a couple of washings, grab some of the Magic Putty that doesn't stick to anything but itself and rush on down to buy that bottle of Herbal Testosterone Replacement pills to make your man manlier and grab one of those delicious burgers -- which actually look like they've been run over by a semi when you open the wrapper.

Next lesson: The real 'Art' of making real foods look mouthwatering and delicious for the camera, using Elmers glue, food coloring, paint, glycerin, a blow torch and 'plumping'. Just don't attempt to eat the actual display.

Valiente: zedster: Critical thinking, how the fark does it work?

A little like magnets.

when I see it I do think it's a miracle

zedster: Critical thinking, how the fark does it work?

Some people need to relearn it frequently, because confirmation bias is hardwired into humans. It would be handy if schools actually taught this, but I have yet to run into critical thinking classes in primary or secondary schools.

offmymeds: Subby uses the words "smokin' hot" when linking to a Daily Mail news item.

Subby has never submitted a link to the Daily Fail, TYVM.

/mostly boring science sites that never get greened

doglover: Private_Citizen: "How to lie with statistics" was first published in 1954. It's just as relevant today as it was then.

/should be mandatory reading in high school.

Would you read a book called "What Color Is The Sky?" that merely explained how the sky was in fact blue?

Statistics are lies. You can make them prove anything you want. The only reason they work in science is because everyone's trying to prove everyone else wrong so THEY get the precious grant money.

...unless YOU'RE lying to us!

Hey everyone! He's a big fat liar!

People are intellectually dishonest and want to push their worldview onto others.

There.

waterrockets: ha! I didn't get the reference in that image (and didn't care to image search it).

It's from Labyrinth. Our heroine, Sarah, has to choose between two doors, on leading to the castle, and the other leading to... bum-ba-bum-bummmmm... Certain Death

The skewed structural cues lie is used in every gun thread about how much more gun deaths the US has compared to other countries.

If you adjust for truthiness every country, barring war, is pretty close to zero.

One easy trick to spotting a lie on the internet

Did it come from one of these?

Then it's a lie.

draypresct: waterrockets: Classic 90s-style software engineering interview question:

You're in a land full of people who are each either 100% honest or 100% dishonest. Honest folks will always tell the truth, and dishonest will always tell you a lie. You're traveling on a road, and reach a fork. One direction leads to eternal happiness, and the other to a painful death. At the fork are two people: one is honest, and one is dishonest, but you don't know which is which, and both know which fork to take to happiness.

What can you ask them any question you like to determine which direction to take. What do you ask them?

I always liked the Gagne answer from his Neverwinter Nights mod: "What's 1+1?", followed in this case by "Which road leads to happiness?".

You didn't say that you could only ask one question, and the traditional question  (which one would the other guy say ...) presupposes a certain amount of intelligence from the respondent.

yup (I like the "only one right answer" questions unrelated to the decision as well).

BigBooper: Ker_Thwap: Every high school should have required courses in statistics, logic, and debating.

Understanding why payday loans or borrowing money from Western Sky at 355% is a bad idea is a little more important than being told that much of the information on the internet is bogus.

they quit teaching home economics because it was assumed it was teaching you to be a housewife and bake pies.

instead it became a place to teach kids how to bake prepackaged cookie tubes.

doglover: Would you read a book called "What Color Is The Sky?" that merely explained how the sky was in fact blue?

Yes, because (guess what?) the sky is not, in fact, blue. It only appears blue because the human eye is more sensitive one end of the spectrum. Otherwise, the sky would appear a greenish-blue.

Rik01: Next lesson: The real 'Art' of making real foods look mouthwatering and delicious for the camera, using Elmers glue, food coloring, paint, glycerin, a blow torch and 'plumping'. Just don't attempt to eat the actual display.

Anybody else remember that show?  I distinctly remember the Elmers glue used as cereal milk bit.

some_beer_drinker: i like pie.

Is that a mustard pie?? Gross

dj_spanmaster: zedster: Critical thinking, how the fark does it work?

Some people need to relearn it frequently, because confirmation bias is hardwired into humans. It would be handy if schools actually taught this, but I have yet to run into critical thinking classes in primary or secondary schools.

or most colleges, the days of the off beat professor who challenged their students instead of excepting them to regurgitate their own lectures are gone

star_topology: People are intellectually dishonest and want to push their worldview onto others.

There.

Sez you!

Rik01: Now, rush on out and buy those Orgreenic Frying Pans -- whose no-stick properties seem to vanish after a couple of washings, grab some of the Magic Putty that doesn't stick to anything but itself and rush on down to buy that bottle of Herbal Testosterone Replacement pills to make your man manlier and grab one of those delicious burgers -- which actually look like they've been run over by a semi when you open the wrapper.

Next lesson: The real 'Art' of making real foods look mouthwatering and delicious for the camera, using Elmers glue, food coloring, paint, glycerin, a blow torch and 'plumping'. Just don't attempt to eat the actual display.

Actually, I have two such ceramic pans-- One is Orgreenic, the other is actually a white coating from another company-- and they've been great for over a year now. The only negative is that I burned something in the white one and now there's a single small spot in the pan that is less non-stick than the rest.

As for magic putty, I'm not sure what you're talking about. If it's the epoxy putty (two colors, and then turns to an adhesive when you mix them) then it works great, and they've been selling that in hardware stores for decades because it's a legitimate, useful product.

Finally, fast food-- Well, that varies by location, company, and workers. I've been to Wendy's restaurants where the burger I got looked almost exactly like the ones they advertised, and I've been to other restaurants in the chain that sold me a squished mass of meat and bread that looked nothing like a sandwich. That's luck of the draw, there.

I have found that whenever a politician is lying they put a letter R in parenthesis right after their name. It's a dead giveaway.

/lying on the internet?
//cat and pic are hot

doglover: Statistics are lies. You can make them prove anything you want.

No you can't. If you do, you're just flat out lying. Has nothing to do with statistics.

Ablejack: I have found that whenever a politician is lying they put a letter R in parenthesis right after their name. It's a dead giveaway.

Keep hopin' for that change.

People lie???

styckx: God dammit I hate badly coded websites that don't know how to handle mobile connections

Tablet - I get a story about a record made of ice instead of the intended story..

So would that be 'record cold'?

Z-clipped: Mitch Taylor's Bro: Z-clipped: doglover: Private_Citizen: "How to lie with statistics" was first published in 1954. It's just as relevant today as it was then.

/should be mandatory reading in high school.

Would you read a book called "What Color Is The Sky?" that merely explained how the sky was in fact blue?

Statistics are lies. You can make them prove anything you want. The only reason they work in science is because everyone's trying to prove everyone else wrong so THEY get the precious grant money.

You're not helping.

This kind of blind cynicism is nearly as bad as caused by a lack of critical thinking.

Thinking is hard, therefore I am not going to do it anymore and will just shiat on every sciencey topic for the rest of my life.

I was tempted to ask if he could explain to a six-year-old why the sky is blue, but attacking his analogy seemed a little petty, even with the tasty irony of it.

Honestly, I'd have to read that book to explain why the sky is blue :-)

But I know that statistics just help us make sense of raw data. There are good statistics and bad statistics and it's up to the statistician to use the right statistics to properly interpret the data.

When I took undergrad stats in college, our professor let us bring a notebook into our exams. He said he didn't want us wasting our time memorizing formulas when we should be focusing on learning which situations called for which formulas. He was a great prof, but I barely eked out a C in his class because I suck at math.

The funny thing is that Liar sentences are easy to spot: they're the ones telling you that they're false.

ZeroCorpse: As for magic putty, I'm not sure what you're talking about. If it's the epoxy putty

I'm pretty sure that was supposed to be "Mighty Putty," which they have at Walgreen's and other places where you shouldn't ever buy home repair supplies.  Epoxy putty, in contrast, is not typically sold via infomercials.  While epoxy putty kinda works, it would likely work a lot better if someone didn't have to rub all of the dirt and oils off of their fingers into it while they mix it.  But that's ok, as its primary use is repairs which are being done wrong anyway.

The Bunyip: I really thought it was going to be about looking at pixels.

Sharp knees!!1!

LittleSmitty: Linux_Yes: LittleSmitty: If there is one thing I learned from the Internet, it's to not believe things I read on the Internet

yep, its all lies. every bit of it.   now i know how thick you are.

And how do you know I wasn't telling a lie?

And leave my weight out of it

thick.  british slang for mentally slow.   sure there is alot of bs online. but there is also alot of truth online. wanna' know what the difference is between online and corporate owned TV/radio?   no one owns the internet so no one can control what is put online and what is not.  big business owned TV/radio/magazines, etc can be edited for content and only that which the owner allows is allowed.

i.o.w. the internet is a Democratic system, and the mass media is a Plutocratic one.   the key is keeping an open mind and realizing that alot of the stuff online just might be true.  its stuff that the Owners don't want anyone to know because that would be counter to the owners agenda.

Linux_Yes: LittleSmitty: Linux_Yes: LittleSmitty: If there is one thing I learned from the Internet, it's to not believe things I read on the Internet

yep, its all lies. every bit of it.   now i know how thick you are.

And how do you know I wasn't telling a lie?

And leave my weight out of it

thick.  british slang for mentally slow.   sure there is alot of bs online. but there is also alot of truth online. wanna' know what the difference is between online and corporate owned TV/radio?   no one owns the internet so no one can control what is put online and what is not.  big business owned TV/radio/magazines, etc can be edited for content and only that which the owner allows is allowed.

i.o.w. the internet is a Democratic system, and the mass media is a Plutocratic one.   the key is keeping an open mind and realizing that alot of the stuff online just might be true.  its stuff that the Owners don't want anyone to know because that would be counter to the owners agenda.

usafdave: Came for cake.  Leaving disappointed.

No one posted advice animals either. *sigh*

Linux_Yes: LittleSmitty: Linux_Yes: LittleSmitty: If there is one thing I learned from the Internet, it's to not believe things I read on the Internet

yep, its all lies. every bit of it.   now i know how thick you are.

And how do you know I wasn't telling a lie?

And leave my weight out of it

thick.  british slang for mentally slow.   sure there is alot of bs online. but there is also alot of truth online. wanna' know what the difference is between online and corporate owned TV/radio?   no one owns the internet so no one can control what is put online and what is not.  big business owned TV/radio/magazines, etc can be edited for content and only that which the owner allows is allowed.

i.o.w. the internet is a Democratic system, and the mass media is a Plutocratic one.   the key is keeping an open mind and realizing that alot of the stuff online just might be true.  its stuff that the Owners don't want anyone to know because that would be counter to the owners agenda.

One thing I learned from the Internet is the abundance of assholes is seemingly infinite.

ArcadianRefugee: doglover: Would you read a book called "What Color Is The Sky?" that merely explained how the sky was in fact blue?

Yes, because (guess what?) the sky is not, in fact, blue. It only appears blue because the human eye is more sensitive one end of the spectrum. Otherwise, the sky would appear a greenish-blue.

Citation please. Because* I've read that the eye is most sensitive to green, which is why you weight RGB color values differently (green most heavily, then red, then blue) when you convert a color image to black and white.

*Sorry, "barbeque."

dbrunker: usafdave: Came for cake.  Leaving disappointed.

No one posted advice animals either. *sigh*

Actually, that last one has some basis in reality. It's called "state-depenent learning."

/but it's not a good idea

What better indication of online lying do you need than this?

Pawprint: ArcadianRefugee: doglover: Would you read a book called "What Color Is The Sky?" that merely explained how the sky was in fact blue?

Yes, because (guess what?) the sky is not, in fact, blue. It only appears blue because the human eye is more sensitive one end of the spectrum. Otherwise, the sky would appear a greenish-blue.

Citation please. Because* I've read that the eye is most sensitive to green, which is why you weight RGB color values differently (green most heavily, then red, then blue) when you convert a color image to black and white.

*Sorry, "barbeque."

Sorry, "more sensitive to green". Middle, end, whatever. Point is, out visual bias drags reality one way or another, meaning what we see isn't what's there.

orbister: What better indication of online lying do you need than this?

[i.dailymail.co.uk image 350x66]

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